now on bbc news: the sporting l word. in this programme, first shown in february as part of bbc sport's lgbt+ history month, clare balding looks at what it means to be a gay woman in sport. hello. my name is clare balding and i am a broadcaster, mainly in sport for the bbc and for other channels as well. it is really interesting looking at lgbt+ rights and attitudes towards lgbt+ people through the lens of sport, and i am particularly going to focus on women's sport because since the earliest 20th century with a record goal scorer and iconic footballer to the 21st century boxer or soccer player, women's sport has been a place where it is important to be able to be yourself. billiejean king has been a vocal advocate for equal rights and for the lgbt+ community to be respected and valued and visibility is a really important thing. for as long as people stay hidden from view or deny who they are and who they love, then there will be a stigma of shame, and that shame passes on from generation to generation. 0n the flipside of that coin, if you can be happily visible, if you can be proud, if you could be comfortable and confident, if you can be generous with your experience and with your time, then i think you pass on an aura of positivity to other generations, and that is how the world changes, and it has changed. it has come a long way since martina was at the height of her powers, as she told sue barker. i of her powers, as she told sue barker. . , �* barker. i really didn't figure it out until _ barker. i really didn't figure it out until i _ barker. i really didn't figure it out until i had _ barker. i really didn't figure it out until i had my - barker. i really didn't figure it out until i had my first . it out until i had my first relationship with a woman, and then_ relationship with a woman, and then i_ relationship with a woman, and then i figured it out and i was like. — then i figured it out and i was like. "oh. _ then i figured it out and i was like, "oh, that is what it was" because — like, "0h, that is what it was" because i_ like, "oh, that is what it was" because i did not recognise it as anything but crashes. i had crushes— as anything but crashes. i had crushes on_ as anything but crashes. i had crushes on men as well but they were _ crushes on men as well but they were stronger on women. my dad asked _ were stronger on women. my dad asked if_ were stronger on women. my dad asked if i— were stronger on women. my dad asked if i was living as a man with— asked if i was living as a man with a — asked if i was living as a man with a woman and i always said if they— with a woman and i always said if they asked i would tell them _ if they asked i would tell them. that is exactly what happened. five years after i had — happened. five years after i had been _ happened. five years after i had been with a woman they asked — had been with a woman they asked and i said yes and then all hell— asked and i said yes and then all hell broke loose and my dad said some _ all hell broke loose and my dad said some things that he wished that be — said some things that he wished that he had not said, but he did not— that he had not said, but he did not know. again, people realty— did not know. again, people really did not know any better. we never— really did not know any better. we never stop talking or anything but there was a tension, and then my dad, he educated _ tension, and then my dad, he educated himself. he read some books, _ educated himself. he read some books, and he said, "i realise now_ books, and he said, "i realise how this _ books, and he said, "i realise now this has nothing to do with you or— now this has nothing to do with you or me _ now this has nothing to do with you or me and this is who you are and — you or me and this is who you are and i_ you or me and this is who you are and ijust want you to be happy." _ are and ijust want you to be happy." this is all you want from — happy." this is all you want from a _ happy." this is all you want from a parent. this was 30 years— from a parent. this was 30 years ago. from a parent. this was 30 years age-— from a parent. this was 30 earsauo. ., . ~ ., years ago. you talk about your family coming _ years ago. you talk about your family coming over. _ years ago. you talk about your family coming over. did - years ago. you talk about your family coming over. did you i years ago. you talk about your. family coming over. did you buy them a separate house to protect them from finding out? no. i needed the space on my own — no. i needed the space on my own even _ no. i needed the space on my own. even if i had married a man— own. even if i had married a man i— own. even if i had married a man i would have wanted a separate _ man i would have wanted a separate house. i man i would have wanted a separate house. lam man i would have wanted a separate house. i am an adult how — separate house. i am an adult now my— separate house. i am an adult now. my parents literally live like three houses down. in the end, _ like three houses down. in the end. it — like three houses down. in the end. it was _ like three houses down. in the end, it was only about me being happy— end, it was only about me being happy and — end, it was only about me being happy and does the person i am with treat — happy and does the person i am with treat me well? that was a negative — with treat me well? that was a negative thing from the fans standpoint. from the crowd reaction _ standpoint. from the crowd reaction or letters? yes, letters, _ reaction or letters? yes, letters, crowd reaction, response to when i would come on the — response to when i would come on the court. response to when i would come on the court-— on the court. when i started winning. _ on the court. when i started winning, being _ on the court. when i started winning, being gay - on the court. when i started winning, being gay and - on the court. when i started - winning, being gay and winning, it was too threatening. i was ok being gay as long as i was 0k being gay as long as i was losing, but when i started dominating, somehow, i had an unfair advantage. dominating, somehow, i had an unfairadvantage. i dominating, somehow, i had an unfair advantage. i don't know how. ., . ., , unfair advantage. i don't know how. . . ., , ., unfair advantage. i don't know how. . . . , ., ., how. financially, it would have cost ou how. financially, it would have cost you a _ how. financially, it would have cost you a lot. _ how. financially, it would have cost you a lot. i _ how. financially, it would have cost you a lot. i did _ how. financially, it would have cost you a lot. i did not - how. financially, it would have cost you a lot. i did not lose i cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals. _ cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals, but _ cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals, but i _ cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals, but i did - cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals, but i did not - cost you a lot. i did not lose any deals, but i did not get| any deals, but i did not get any deals, but i did not get any new ones, let's put it that way. i had my brackets and clothing contracts and then when i started winning the money was better, but did i ever get paid as much as chris for the same deals? i doubt it. i certainly did not get any outside deals. i i certainly did not get any outside deals.— i certainly did not get any outside deals. i am not sure there has — outside deals. i am not sure there has been _ outside deals. i am not sure there has been a _ outside deals. i am not sure there has been a more - there has been a more successful lesbian icon as martina _ successful lesbian icon as martina and tennis has led the way in — martina and tennis has led the way in terms of equal pay and attitudes— way in terms of equal pay and attitudes to the lgbt+ community. billiejean attitudes to the lgbt+ community. billie jean king says— community. billie jean king says it _ community. billie jean king says it was one of her great regrets _ says it was one of her great regrets that she did not earlier— regrets that she did not earlier come to the realisation that she — earlier come to the realisation that she needed to be her authentic self and she needed to talk— authentic self and she needed to talk about it, but my word, the campaigning she has done since — the campaigning she has done since has _ the campaigning she has done since has made up for that and it has— since has made up for that and it has paved the way for the likes— it has paved the way for the likes of— it has paved the way for the likes of amelie mauresmo, stem -- sam _ likes of amelie mauresmo, stem —— sam sosa. allison is a new player— —— sam sosa. allison is a new player who _ —— sam sosa. allison is a new player who wants to talk about her relationship and she has been — her relationship and she has been with her player for five years — been with her player for five years. they got engaged at christmas. they play doubles together and they also sometimes play on opposing sides— sometimes play on opposing sides of— sometimes play on opposing sides of the court. they did that— sides of the court. they did that on— sides of the court. they did that on a _ sides of the court. they did that on a tournament in germany recently— that on a tournament in germany recently and after the match was — recently and after the match was over— recently and after the match was over as couples do, they kissed — was over as couples do, they kissed. this is what alison had to say— kissed. this is what alison had to say about it. it kissed. this is what alison had to say about it.— to say about it. it was actually _ to say about it. it was actually not _ to say about it. it was actually not a - to say about it. it was actually not a bad - to say about it. it was - actually not a bad match. we decided that we would go fully, both of us, and see what happens. we were happy it was done, but before and after was fine. we had a good match and whoever one after the match, it was done and we were girlfriends. it was done and we were girlfriends.— was done and we were airlfriends. ., , ., ., _ girlfriends. it was not easy, for sure- — girlfriends. it was not easy, for sure. you _ girlfriends. it was not easy, for sure. you have - girlfriends. it was not easy, for sure. you have to - girlfriends. it was not easy, for sure. you have to put i girlfriends. it was not easy, i for sure. you have to put aside that— for sure. you have to put aside that she — for sure. you have to put aside that she was my girlfriend and that she was my girlfriend and that when you win a point, normally— that when you win a point, normally you are happy, and you show _ normally you are happy, and you show it. — normally you are happy, and you show it. but _ normally you are happy, and you show it, but during this match we cannot— show it, but during this match we cannotjust get neutral all the match. of course, we both wanted — the match. of course, we both wanted to— the match. of course, we both wanted to win, but still, you don't — wanted to win, but still, you don't want to rub it in the other— don't want to rub it in the other ones they select, "i just want — other ones they select, "i just want these points." we were just— want these points." we were just happy it was finished and it will— just happy it was finished and it will happen again, probably. interestingly, there are instances of couples playing for the same team at the moment in women's sport. whether it is a world record chelsea signer or the club captain or catherine brunt on the england cricket team. all it makes jones and celia up for the england sevens team who recently spoke publicly about their relationship for the first time. kate and helen richardson walsh are the gold winning team for hockey at the rio 0lympics. winning team for hockey at the rio olympics— winning team for hockey at the rio olympics. holly webb on her wa to rio olympics. holly webb on her way to win _ rio olympics. holly webb on her way to win a _ rio olympics. holly webb on her way to win a gold _ rio olympics. holly webb on her way to win a gold for— rio olympics. holly webb on her way to win a gold for great i way to win a gold for great britain! _ way to win a gold for great britain! scores! that is the goal! — britain! scores! that is the goal! great britain have one the olympic gold medal! the hockey— the olympic gold medal! the hockey history makers! great britain — hockey history makers! great britain are the olympic champions, and they are on top of the _ champions, and they are on top of the world! can champions, and they are on top of the world!— of the world! can i ask you first, of the world! can i ask you first. when _ of the world! can i ask you first, when did _ of the world! can i ask you first, when did you - of the world! can i ask you first, when did you first i of the world! can i ask you i first, when did you first play together?— first, when did you first play touether? ., ., ., , together? that would have been have been back _ together? that would have been have been back in _ together? that would have been have been back in 1997. - together? that would have been have been back in 1997. for- together? that would have been have been back in 1997. for the| have been back in 1997. for the england — have been back in 1997. for the england under 18 have been back in 1997. for the england under18 team. have been back in 1997. for the england under 18 team.- have been back in 1997. for the england under 18 team. what was the environment _ england under 18 team. what was the environment like _ england under 18 team. what was the environment like that - england under 18 team. what was the environment like that team? | the environment like that team? can you remember whether people will willingly abrasive of diversity, but say? i will willingly abrasive of diversity, but say? i would not have said _ diversity, but say? i would not have said so, _ diversity, but say? i would not have said so, particularly. ii have said so, particularly. i don't — have said so, particularly. i don't think it was intentionally discriminatory, i 'ust intentionally discriminatory, i just don't— intentionally discriminatory, i just don't think it was a topic of conversation. i think it was very— of conversation. i think it was very nruch— of conversation. i think it was very much presumed that he would — very much presumed that he would have a boyfriend. i think that is— would have a boyfriend. i think that is kind of where it went, which — that is kind of where it went, which is _ that is kind of where it went, which is to— that is kind of where it went, which is to scrimmage, let's be honest. — which is to scrimmage, let's be honest, but i don't think it was — honest, but i don't think it was necessarily conscious. obviously, it took a long time before you were in a relationship. when that happened, how quickly did you feel you needed to tell the rest of the team? it feel you needed to tell the rest of the team?- feel you needed to tell the rest of the team? it was not something _ rest of the team? it was not something that _ rest of the team? it was not something that we - rest of the team? it was not something that we felt i rest of the team? it was not something that we felt we l something that we felt we wanted to do all felt comfortable enough to do straightaway, if we are honest. we told — straightaway, if we are honest. we told a — straightaway, if we are honest. we told a couple of people in the team _ we told a couple of people in the team who _ we told a couple of people in the team who were _ we told a couple of people in the team who were also i we told a couple of people in the team who were also in i the team who were also in leadership— the team who were also in leadership positions. i- the team who were also in. leadership positions. i think because _ leadership positions. i think because we _ leadership positions. i think because we were _ leadership positions. i think because we were building i leadership positions. i thinki because we were building up leadership positions. i think- because we were building up to and 0lynrpic_ because we were building up to and olympic games _ because we were building up to and olympic games it - because we were building up to and olympic games it was i because we were building up to and olympic games it was justl and olympic games it was just felt that— and olympic games it was just felt that let's _ and olympic games it was just felt that let's just _ and olympic games it was just felt that let's just not - and olympic games it was just felt that let's just not rock i felt that let's just not rock the — felt that let's just not rock the boat. _ felt that let's just not rock the boat, let's— felt that let's just not rock the boat, let'sjust - felt that let's just not rock the boat, let'sjust keep. felt that let's just not rock i the boat, let'sjust keep this as is — the boat, let's 'ust keep this as is. ., ., ., ., , the boat, let's 'ust keep this asis. ., ., ., ., , ., as is. you are teammates, and i have talked _ as is. you are teammates, and i have talked to _ as is. you are teammates, and i have talked to a _ as is. you are teammates, and i have talked to a lot _ as is. you are teammates, and i have talked to a lot of _ as is. you are teammates, and i have talked to a lot of your i have talked to a lot of your teammates, and they say that you were so inspirational to them and that they were really proud of you. them and that they were really proud of yon-— proud of you. actually, now that that — proud of you. actually, now that that has _ proud of you. actually, now that that has happened i proud of you. actually, now that that has happened forl proud of you. actually, now i that that has happened for one couple, — that that has happened for one couple, you are now starting to see it _ couple, you are now starting to see it happen a bit more openly for lots — see it happen a bit more openly for lots of— see it happen a bit more openly for lots of other couples in other— for lots of other couples in other sports, so it has kinda opened _ other sports, so it has kinda opened the door which is great. it opened the door which is great. it has _ opened the door which is great. it has made it way more comfortable, and i think the key was _ comfortable, and i think the key was right at the start, as soon — key was right at the start, as soon at — key was right at the start, as soon at this it was something that— soon at this it was something that was— soon at this it was something that was now open, was that we spoke _ that was now open, was that we spoke about it. it was put on the table _ spoke about it. it was put on the table as this is... this is happening, this is the case. the — happening, this is the case. the reaction, luckily, from nearly everyone, is usually never as bad as you think it will be but i feel that within sport, when you are talking about such marginal differences, that the fear of being outed or the fear of being outed or the fear of being open can limit some people in their performance. 100%. people in their performance. 10096. , . ., 10096. yes. without doubt, if ou 10096. yes. without doubt, if you can't _ 10096. yes. without doubt, if you can't be _ 10096. yes. without doubt, if you can't be your _ 10096. yes. without doubt, if you can't be your whole i 10096. yes. without doubt, if you can't be your whole self, | you can't be your whole self, and — you can't be your whole self, and you _ you can't be your whole self, and you are _ you can't be your whole self, and you are carrying - you can't be your whole self, and you are carrying awaits l and you are carrying awaits around _ and you are carrying awaits around with _ and you are carrying awaits around with you, _ and you are carrying awaits around with you, you - and you are carrying awaits around with you, you have | and you are carrying awaits i around with you, you have got the pressure _ around with you, you have got the pressure of— around with you, you have got the pressure of day—to—day. the pressure of day—to—day life. — the pressure of day—to—day life. the _ the pressure of day—to—day life, the pressure - the pressure of day—to—day life, the pressure of- life, the pressure of performing, - life, the pressure of performing, every. life, the pressure of. performing, every day, life, the pressure of- performing, every day, and life, the pressure of— performing, every day, and then this added — performing, every day, and then this added weight, _ performing, every day, and then this added weight, i _ performing, every day, and then this added weight, ithink- performing, every day, and then this added weight, i think it i this added weight, i think it would — this added weight, i think it would absolutely— this added weight, i think it would absolutely effective. | this added weight, i think it. would absolutely effective. it is 'ust would absolutely effective. is just those isjust those simple daily questions, orthe isjust those simple daily questions, or the conversations that happen around you all the time — that happen around you all the time like _ that happen around you all the time. like when we first got into— time. like when we first got into the _ time. like when we first got into the team, or you meet new people — into the team, or you meet new people and _ into the team, or you meet new people and they say, "have you -ot people and they say, "have you got a _ people and they say, "have you got a boyfriend?" straightaway that question, or the fact that you are — that question, or the fact that you are dreading the question coming, — you are dreading the question coming, it isjust there constantly. coming, it is 'ust there constantly._ coming, it is 'ust there constantl . ., , coming, it is 'ust there constantl. ., , ., constantly. consumer open and not a constantly. consumer open and got a much _ constantly. consumer open and got a much better— constantly. consumer open and got a much better reaction i constantly. consumer open andj got a much better reaction than either of you probably anticipated, what difference do you think it made you on the pitch? did you feel better as players? —— once you were open. i was out for a few years before _ i was out for a few years before i— i was out for a few years before i had a relationship and having — before i had a relationship and having conversations with people _ having conversations with people who knew me reasonably welljust — people who knew me reasonably welljust saw a completely different person. they now saw somebody who was — i don't think— somebody who was — i don't think it _ somebody who was — i don't think it was confidence — i think— think it was confidence — i think it _ think it was confidence — i think it is _ think it was confidence — i think it is beyond confidence. it think it is beyond confidence. it is _ think it is beyond confidence. it isjust_ think it is beyond confidence. it isjust like a way, and they are now— it isjust like a way, and they are now seeing the real me rather— are now seeing the real me rather than someone that is trying — rather than someone that is trying to— rather than someone that is trying to hide themselves. i trying to hide themselves. think trying to hide themselves. i think the general assumption is women's sport is all right, and men's sport needs work. is that false? i men's sport needs work. is that false? ., ., ., false? i would imagine that there is still _ false? i would imagine that there is still a _ false? i would imagine that there is still a perception . false? i would imagine that. there is still a perception of, "oh. — there is still a perception of, "oh. yesm _ there is still a perception of, "oh, yes... another couple." "oh, yes. .. another couple. " that— "oh, yes. .. another couple. " that kind _ "oh, yes... another couple." that kind of— "oh, yes... another couple." that kind of thing, and i think that— that kind of thing, and i think that is— that kind of thing, and i think that is where education comes in. that is where education comes in if— that is where education comes in if they— that is where education comes in. if they are able to speak to youngsters about these things— to youngsters about these things and they see the people behind — things and they see the people behind the sexuality or the gender— behind the sexuality or the gender or the sportsperson, the more _ gender or the sportsperson, the more than — gender or the sportsperson, the more than they are able to just think. — more than they are able to just think. "0h. _ more than they are able to just think, "oh, they arejust people." _ think, "oh, they arejust people." and that is fine. i remember 20 people." and that is fine. i remember20 years people." and that is fine. i remember 20 years ago giving a talk at — whatever you case what was then — all of the coaches were in the room and i was talking about women's sport and i said i wanted to talk about the elephant in the room that women sport has a very high percentage of gay women, and i deliberately did not use the word lesbian because i have the word lesbian because i have the same mental thing going on in my head that whenever it has been said to me it has been a negative term, so i said gay women, and i said i think we need to discuss that, i think we should really be transparent and open and talk about how women's sport is a very accepting place for diversity and for same—sex couples. i mean, the horror and the silence and... i am stunned because i thought, "god, you are really scared of this." and i think it is because a lot of people in senior coaching positions and a senior management were scared. i think they were scared, and i think they were scared, and i think they were scared, and i think they were worried that parents would, you know, it is like — 0 god, don't talk about it because parents already think of girls play women sport they will become a lesbian and i think the old assumption was that if you go into women's sport you will be a lesbian and it was never said in a positive way. it was always a negative thing. way. it was always a negative thin. , . , way. it was always a negative thin i _ , ., , , thing. yes. that is why we still struggle _ thing. yes. that is why we still struggle to _ thing. yes. that is why we still struggle to know i thing. yes. that is why we still struggle to know how| thing. yes. that is why we l still struggle to know how to identify— still struggle to know how to identify ourselves because, i think. — identify ourselves because, i think. in— identify ourselves because, i think, in part because of how the term _ think, in part because of how the term lesbian is used in such— the term lesbian is used in such a _ the term lesbian is used in such a negative way, particularly in a sporting context— particularly in a sporting context — " yes, she is a lesbian— context — " yes, she is a lesbian now because, you know" _ lesbian now because, you know..." that is another... we need _ know..." that is another... we need to— know..." that is another... we need to reclaim that word and see it — need to reclaim that word and see it for— need to reclaim that word and see it for what it is, positive, for the lgbt+ communityl positive, for the lgbt+ community— positive, for the lgbt+ communi . ., community i am sort of hopeful that the young _ community i am sort of hopeful that the young ones _ community i am sort of hopeful that the young ones now, i community i am sort of hopeful that the young ones now, ten, | that the young ones now, ten, 11, 12, 13, just starting their sporting experience and life, i just hope they don't grow up with the same negative connotations. i don't think they care. connotations. i don't think they care-— they care. when i go into schools. _ they care. when i go into schools. l— they care. when i go into schools, i agree - they care. when i go into schools, i agree with i they care. when i go into | schools, i agree with you. they care. when i go into l schools, i agree with you. i have — schools, i agree with you. i have my— schools, i agree with you. i have my rainbow leases on and they— have my rainbow leases on and they asked me about it and they want _ they asked me about it and they want to— they asked me about it and they want to talk about it. i am blown _ want to talk about it. i am blown away because i think i never— blown away because i think i never would have asked a question like that when i was their— question like that when i was their age. question like that when i was theirage. then i question like that when i was their age. then i think but the people — their age. then i think but the people they are surrounded by, what _ people they are surrounded by, what are — people they are surrounded by, what are their views and opinions _ what are their views and opinions on what impact does that_ opinions on what impact does that happen? now, the power of social— that happen? now, the power of social media is another layer of people they can follow, get in touch — of people they can follow, get in touch with, talk to, listen to, shareware, and i think that is something we did not have going — is something we did not have going up. _ is something we did not have going up, for sure. gr is something we did not have going up, for sure.— going up, for sure. or 'ust female sport i going up, for sure. or 'ust female sport being i going up, for sure. or 'ust female sport being onh going up, for sure. orjust female sport being on tv. i going up, for sure. orjust - female sport being on tv. we remember_ female sport being on tv. we remember kind— female sport being on tv. we remember kind of— female sport being on tv. we remember kind of watching . female sport being on tv. we. remember kind of watching the olympics— remember kind of watching the olympics every— remember kind of watching the olympics every four— remember kind of watching the olympics every four years, - remember kind of watching the olympics every four years, or l olympics every four years, or wimbledon— olympics every four years, or wimbledon every— olympics every four years, or wimbledon every year- olympics every four years, or wimbledon every year and i olympics every four years, or i wimbledon every year and that was the — wimbledon every year and that was the only— wimbledon every year and that was the only time _ wimbledon every year and that was the only time we _ wimbledon every year and that was the only time we actually. was the only time we actually ever— was the only time we actually ever saw— was the only time we actually ever saw women— was the only time we actually ever saw women play- was the only time we actually ever saw women play in - was the only time we actuallyl ever saw women play in sport, so it— ever saw women play in sport, so it is— ever saw women play in sport, so it is not— ever saw women play in sport, so it is not where _ ever saw women play in sport, so it is not where it _ ever saw women play in sport, so it is not where it needs- ever saw women play in sport, so it is not where it needs to l so it is not where it needs to be, — so it is not where it needs to be, by— so it is not where it needs to be, by any— so it is not where it needs to be, by any stretch, - be, by any stretch, particularly - be, by any stretch, particularly now . be, by any stretch, i particularly now with be, by any stretch, - particularly now with covid. be, by any stretch, _ particularly now with covid. it has actually _ particularly now with covid. it has actually gone _ particularly now with covid. it has actually gone backwards, i has actually gone backwards, but the — has actually gone backwards, but the more _ has actually gone backwards, but the more that _ has actually gone backwards, but the more that women - has actually gone backwards, . but the more that women sport is on _ but the more that women sport is on tv— but the more that women sport is on tv it — but the more that women sport is on tv itiust_ but the more that women sport is on tv itjust makes— but the more that women sport is on tv it just makes a - but the more that women sport is on tv itjust makes a big - is on tv itjust makes a big difference _ is on tv itjust makes a big difference because - is on tv itjust makes a big difference because you - is on tv itjust makes a big difference because you doi is on tv itjust makes a big i difference because you do get to see — difference because you do get to see a — difference because you do get to see a diverse _ difference because you do get to see a diverse range - difference because you do get to see a diverse range of- to see a diverse range of people _ to see a diverse range of people and _ to see a diverse range of people and what - to see a diverse range of people and what they . to see a diverse range of. people and what they look to see a diverse range of- people and what they look like, but there — people and what they look like, but there are _ people and what they look like, but there are a _ people and what they look like, but there are a huge _ people and what they look like, but there are a huge amount. people and what they look like, but there are a huge amount of| but there are a huge amount of different— but there are a huge amount of different role _ but there are a huge amount of different role models— but there are a huge amount of different role models and - but there are a huge amount of different role models and i- different role models and i think— different role models and i think that _ different role models and i think that is _ different role models and i think that is really - different role models and i think that is really positivel think that is really positive and — think that is really positive and that— think that is really positive and that is— think that is really positive and that is playing - think that is really positive and that is playing a - think that is really positive . and that is playing a massive part — and that is playing a massive part in— and that is playing a massive part in this _ and that is playing a massive part in this changing, - and that is playing a massive part in this changing, for- part in this changing, for sure _ part in this changing, for sure. ,., y part in this changing, for sure. ,., , ., sure. iso identify with what helen says _ sure. iso identify with what helen says about _ sure. iso identify with what helen says about a - sure. iso identify with what helen says about a weight | sure. iso identify with what - helen says about a weight being lifted off your shoulders when you are able to be honest with everyone around you. you are happy, relaxed and you are not lying anymore. you are stronger and so are your teammates your workmates. the fears are real, the challenges still exist, you worry about being excluded, disapproved of, being shamed. it goes back to what martina navratilova was talking about, you worry about not being promoted, supported in your career. luckily there are so many examples now of companies who are forward—thinking, outward—looking, who actively want to support individuals who are just that — individual. many of the best paid sportswomen in the world are also gay. look at abby wambach, the usa's leading all—time goal—scorer who won two olympic gold medals and a world cup, she is now a bestselling author and motivational speaker. megan rapinoe, the winner of the golden boot and the golden ball at the fifa women's world cup, renowned for standing with her arms outstretched and challenging authority at every turn. and australian goal—scoring dynamo, sam kerr, one of the best played players in the world having signed for chelsea last year. all of them have shown there is no commercial price to be paid for being out and being proud. looking at examples on tv, kelly smith is one of the best football pundits around. casey stoney, the former england captain and now the manager of manchester united's thriving wsl team. both have children. that has shown the younger generation that you are not curtailed from having a family, you are not denied that delight because you are in a same—sex relationship. that in itself is an important example. so what does the future hold? rugby union is one of the relatively young sports at club level as an option for women. let's hear from one of the exciting players, a wingerfor the sale sharks and a science teacher at a secondary school. her name is carys hall. when i was younger, i dabbled in a lot of different sports, my mum took me to karate when she went to the gym on a saturday. i did cross country with my older sister. that translated into the indoor athletics and going out to do track and field. competing in the city championships and stuff like that. i took hold of athletics for a long period. i also played football when i was younger, but i switched over in uni to rugby, rugby sevens first then into rugby 15s. how would you sum up the atmosphere in women's rugby compared to other sports in terms of the allowance of you to be yourself? it's the typical you can be anybody to play the positions we need. but also i find people don't go in, and even if it is a question, it doesn't make any difference because you are putting your body on the line. i have always grown up being quite muscular. very much not one to wear a dress. not wanting to come out and come to terms with being queer, sooner, because i didn't want to play into the stereotypes of being the girl who plays football and has the short hair and does the stereotypically masculine. just on that reflection, i am thinking that's probably why i didn't play rugby earlier, because i played tag rugby in primary school and that fell to the side whereas when i went into athletics it was like, ok, i can hide away for a bit and do what i need to do and be the person with the muscular body that helps with sprinting. i was speaking to my friend the other day. she used to have people asking if i was gay and i didin't really know back then. having her say that to me questioning myself if i appeared gay. as an adult now, i don't think there is anything wrong with that, i should have been proud when i was having people put labels on had been but as we get more people speaking about the lgbt community, showing it's a multitude of people, people can be more comfortable. it doesn't have to be a negative connotation of your identity. you're an interesting position. you are in a secondary school, you are teaching kids and seeing them. and therefore you can... therefore i was trying to think of a clever science term of the litmus test. you have a clever take on changing attitudes. do you think kids these days are more open—minded, more fluid maybe? just relaxed in their attitude to sexuality? i had one story from teaching in school, and the kids were having this discussion. i really enjoyed listening to them. they are so intelligent. they are so well read. there was a conversation between a young boy and a young girl, talking about the use of homophobic slurs. i always quote it because it really took me... i was inspired and i wanted to be like her when i was younger. she was talking to this boy saying, you can't be using those words so flippantly. and not realising that you are in a position of power. she literally said to him, you are a white cisgendered straight male and you don't understand how it is from someone questioning their sexuality or being a female. there was another conversation in class. i let the conversation evolve, and a girl at the front turned around, she is a person of colour, she said, you really don't understand just by looking different from everyone else that there may be struggles. there were two boys in this conversation. one of them went into himself and you could see him reflecting on what he was saying, because these girls had always been his friends from year seven onwards. you could see the other boy working through their thoughts by speaking to them. it's really made the conversation far more powerful. as i said, i was blown away by it and i really wish there was someone around me who was so strong in who they were. i guess that was me when i was younger. how important do you think it is to see women in glamourous positions, like nicola adams on strictly come dancing, choosing to dance with another woman. i think it's fantastic. to get inspired for the big night, our boxing superstar went back where it all began. i know in school there was a lot of buzz from the kids talking about strictly come dancing and they would talk about nicola adams. they chose to come to me and talk about it because we look similar. but then also, they were saying, 'miss, you look like nicola adams.�* but there was never anything about she was dancing with a same—sex partner. it was just something that happened because she is gay. it was nice for them to have that conversation with me and it be just a conversation about someone doing really well on tv. carys hall, talking about the importance of seeing nicola adams on strictly come dancing dancing with a female partner. having a glamourous presence on prime—time tv really has value, because it shows that gay and bisexual women are not all the same, we can be many shapes and sizes, different personalities and attitudes and styles. some flamboyant and bold, others quiet and shy. some funny, some serious. some can dance, some can sing, and can do neither. not everyone is going to have the desire and the ability to go on marches and make public statements. not everyone will go on strictly come dancing with a female partner or a male one. but those that do pave the way for everyone else, notjust to be tolerated and accepted, but to be embraced, to be cherished, to be celebrated and championed. and women's sport is showing how. but there is always more that can be done so that the next generation can reach their full potential, can be proud of their team—mates, and can be proud of themselves. hello there. a few of us got to see a white christmas but, for many more, it was too mild for snow. we had a lot of mist and murk and we had some outbreaks of rain. this stripe of cloud on the satellite picture brought rain and some hill snow in the north during boxing day. there's more cloud and rain waiting in the wings down to the south—west. but the big story, i think, for this week will be this surge of very, very mild air wafting up from the south, affecting all parts of the uk as we move towards the end of 2021. it will be turning increasingly mild this week, but with some wind and rain at times. now, many of us will start off monday with some cloud, some mist and fog, some quite murky conditions again. rain into the south—west of england which will push northwards towards parts of wales, the midlands and east anglia through the day, tending to weaken as it goes. elsewhere, some of the mist and fog and cloud will tend to lift and break and we will see some spells of sunshine in the far north of england, northern ireland and scotland, albeit with some showers in the far north. temperatures ranging from 6 degrees in aberdeen to 12 in plymouth through the afternoon. and then through monday night, a bit more rain potentially down towards the south. another lump of wet weather starting to push into northern ireland, parts of northern england, southern scotland. the winds will start to pick up down towards the south and the west as well. very mild in the south. a little bit chilly up towards the north. and then, as we go through tuesday, this area of wet weather will spread out of northern ireland into southern scotland, northern england, parts of wales, perhaps into the midlands as well. we will see some sunny spells to the far north and to the far south but it will be really quite windy across parts of england and wales. some of these western coasts could see gusts of a0 to maybe 50 mph. quite mild in the south — 12 degrees. further north, a little bit cooler but those temperatures still quite respectable for the time of year. however, there is even milder weather on the way. as we move out of tuesday into wednesday, we see this next frontal system pushing in from the south—west, a band of rain that'll drive its way north—eastwards, some snow for a time over high ground in scotland, but this will mostly be rain because that mild air will be working its way in. temperatures down towards the south on wednesday afternoon up to 16, maybe 17 degrees. still a little bit chilly for some northern areas but as we move towards the end of the week and the end of the year, that mild weather spreads to all parts. there will still be some rain at times. good morning, welcome to breakfast with dan walker. our headlines today. emergency talks to take place between energy suppliers and the government, after warnings of another sharp rise in household bills. nightclubs close in scotland, and tighter covid restrictions for hospitality in northern ireland, as ministers consider if new rules are needed for england. a week of events gets under way in south africa, to mourn the passing of archbishop desmond tutu. england fight back in the ashes. a far better day down under asjimmy anderson helps contain australia in the third test. u2 in at number 23, and new year's day! the music industry pays tribute to trailblazing dj janice long — the first regular female presenter on top of the pops.

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