Ten oclock. A full round up on the days news. It is time for newscast. Muffled speech. Archbishop, hello. Its adam fleming. Hello, adam. How are you . Thanks very much for doing this. Sorry we are not there in person. Well, i think you are very wise. Chris mason is here in the same studio as me. Hi there. Hello, chris. How nice to see you. Yeah, nice to talk to you. Thank you very much for your time. Great to hear the sound effects. Its bramble. Is that right . Bramble in the background. That is bramble and she is our star of stage and screen. And its laura in the other studio in westminster. I and itsjustin in lambeth palace. Looking very grand. And with bramble. Newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Lie down. Can you lie down . Thats a good girl. Just lie down. And going to disappear off. Archbishop, welcome to newscast. Well, thank you. Welcome to lambeth. Well, except we were meant to be welcomed in person and wed even put in our mulled wine order, but omicron saw to that. Yeah, omicron has rather overwhelmed us, hasnt it . Yeah. And whos that with you . That is bramble, who i suspect will disappear quite soon. But is the family. There she goes. She is the abcd. Ooh, that smells good. But bramble, im going to sound Likejohnny Morris in a while, but bramble is the abcd, which is the archbishop of canterburys dog. Terrific. And it sounds like quite a handful. Oh, she is a handful. She is a cocker spaniel, so shes insatiable when it comes to food, but shes very friendly. And she may well reappear from time to time. Does she like christmas dinner, archbishop . She loves it. She will eat. She prefers other peoples christmas dinner. We have caught her on the table before now. Well, that is tremendous. Well, newscast, im happy to say, is a News Programme where everyones pets are welcome, so thank you very l much indeed for allowing her to bel with all of us today, particularly exciting for me. Just to get serious for a bit, the reason we are not all in the same place having mulled wine and christmas pies and patting each other� s dogs is because of the worries about the Omicron Variant and people getting pinged and various things like that. Archbishop, when people are starting to get a bit scared and particularly a very sensitive time of the year, what do you think your kind of role is . Well, ithink it doesnt change much. The church of englands in every community in the country and the main role is for the local churches, which theyve been doing, were involved in about 33,000 social projects across the country, and they are about feeding people and caring for people and looking outwards and to everyone, christian, non christian, no faith, whatever it happens to be. Local clergy and all faith communities are intensely careful about caring for people who come to church, so go along to church, wear a mask, having been vaccinated, get your booster if you can, all these sorts of things. Does right now, though,. Loving your neighbour mean avoiding your neighbour, when the risk of infection is so great, particularly for the elderly . Should places of worship still be exempt . I think they should. As i say, over the last 18 months, we have almost no examples of centres of worship as breeding infection. People are immensely careful. Apart from anything else, most anglican churches, to be absolutely honest, are large, cold and draughty. But isnt the issue that omicron is way more transmissible than anything weve had in the last 18 months, so actually carol singing and sitting in the pews together might turn out to be absolutely the wrong thing to do and, if we are going to be precautionary and plan for the worst but hope for the best, perhaps carol concerts arent such a good idea. Er, i think, if that was the case, wed have heard that already from the government. As i say, we are looked at as being a very safe place. One of the things the church does, there is Mental Health as well as physical health. Weve found over the last 18 months those people have come together in worship, suitably separated, sitting no closer than they need to be, with limits on how many people come in and fill the place up. As that has happened, so it has given people joy and hope and faith and confidence to care for those around them. What would you say to anyone who is weighing up the merits or otherwise of going for a vaccine, a booster . We look at some of the boroughs within london, lambeth, for instance, where the figures are, for many people, surprisingly, frighteningly low, in terms of those who have taken up the opportunity of getting a jab. Even low in some parts of the nhs. I think i would say what i said earlier in the week in another interview, that getting the vaccination, getting a booster, is, as the queen said in answer to a question from the crowd about a year ago, she said its not about me. Its one of the ways in which we love our neighbours. This pandemic has had a really personal impact on so many people. You yourself, we know, i volunteered as a chaplain at st thomass hospital, a stones throw from lambeth palace, during the worst period of lockdown, when so many people were losing their lives. What impact did that have on you . It had the most profound impact on me. It stopped me worrying about myself so much, which is very healthy, so it reminded me its not about me. It obviously was in the front line, seeing the extraordinary work being done by the nhs, and their capacity for improvisation, invention, sorting things out quickly, it is above all showed me the huge important of the dignity of each human being, regardless of faith. I just think of the number of people who were very near the end of their lives that i prayed with, or parents with children not covid related who were near the end of their life, and that sense of our fragility, but of the hope that people found in prayer, in god, in reaching out was extraordinary. I was expecting to be seen as a bit of a nuisance but weve got to have a chaplain, you know, and we are short so this trying not to do too much harm. And it was quite the reverse. I just watched our Senior Chaplain there do the most remarkable work alongside the rest of the nhs. I learned so much. Archbishop, are there specific moments that have stayed i with you among those families that you met or particular. . Yeah, there are two very specific. One was with a woman with, who was in Critical Care with very severe covid, couldnt speak, she was conscious, she could just hold out her hand and we locked eyes while i prayed for her. And ill go to my own death with the picture of herface in my mind. And the other was an unconscious woman from a muslim tradition, muslim background, whose family had said, please would someone pray with her . And i knelt by her bed and she was unconscious. I held her hand and prayed for her. And there was, i mean, im sorry, this will sound slightly metaphysical and mystic, but there was a huge sense of the presence of god. And i learned so much from that about the love of god for every single human being, whoever they are, wherever they are, whatever they are like. And that has a deep impact on the way i view people generally. But those were really two of dozens and dozens of very special moments. Of course, you could be there. When peoples families couldnt. If you could just remember what that was like them,. People were alone, but with hospital i staff and you were there to be ablel to provide that comfort. Its such. It makes me quite emotional. Its such an overwhelming privilege to be allowed to be there. Id have swapped places with their family any time. I didnt think i had any right or entitlement, but that was the way it was, and we did the best we could. And i dont know anyone who was working in the chaplaincy, and there were a range of people there who, who wasnt overwhelmed with that sense of privilege. I wonder what it is that you actually say in those moments, those moments of prayer with someone who is perhaps living their final hours. Well, you commit them into gods hands. Sometimes you anoint them, if they are from, if thats going to be all right with them and theirfamily. You are honest about the tragedy and lament and protest of it. You dontjust. I dont know if any of you remember postman pat, who i endured for many years. . Did not expect that swerve well, i like to keep you on your toes. Postman pat comes up with the most atrocious, not postman pat, the vicar, with. You know, pat sort of appears saying, my dog has been killed and there is mass murder going on in the village, and the vicar says, oh, bless you, pat you dont get into that. You talk to god with integrity. And protest, and you say this is wrong, this is terrible, here is someone dying alone. Come and be with their family, be with them, look on them with love, receive them into your hands. Reverend timms, ive just looked him up. On the postman pat wiki, which chris has very suspiciously quick access to. He is the vicar of Greendale Church and we hear, for the first time on newscast, that his future rise in the church of england. Well, we should not be betting on that. Lets just say hes not on the preferment list. Yeah, hes not getting a bishopric any time soon. Seeing as you have made the conversation slightly less emotional, thats given us permission to then go down this road. While you were holding peoples hands, even people from another faith, because theyjust wanted somebody of faith to be there at the end, we now know that some of those points there were people having parties, in contravention of the rules. How do you feel when you juxtapose pictures of people grinning with catering in an office that is meant to be in a restricted situation and you were doing that at the same time . First of all, obviously, we must obey the rules. Obviously, we must all obey the rules. Secondly, there is an investigation going on. I wont prejudge that. But we need to set an example. On a human level, archbishop, there were you, describing so emotionallyjust a few minutes ago being in a hospital, and a matter of, well, less than a mile away from that, in the weeks before christmas last year, that party going on in conservative party headquarters, involving the then london mayoral candidate. Ijust wonder, on a human level, how you responded when you saw that picture . On a human level, i. Just disappointed, really. I dont. I make so many mistakes myself, im not a big one for throwing stones. My favourite story in the bible one of my favourites is when someone is dragged out in front ofjesus, a woman caught in adultery, and they say, should she be stoned . And jesus just says, those without sin cast the first stone. And all her accusers go away and he says, does nobodyjudge you . And she says, nobody did. And he says, well, go away and dont do it again. Now, thats jesus. That seems quite a good example, really, particularly in myjob. And i dont really do much onjudging people, but it is. We must obey the rules. We have to depersonalise it. Lets get away from that example. And i would say, obey the rules, stick to the rules. But you also said, archbishop, you said yourself that you make many mistakes. Im sure you dont make very many mistakes in fact, but you have been very candid| about the fact that you believe you do make errors. But when mistakes are made, isnt it better for people to be straight about it, to be honest . To admit . I dont want to use the word confess to you, it feels somehow inappropriate, but isnt it better for the public that we see prominentj leaders in public life. Yes. Being straight about things . Yes. I think that, not so much social media, but most people in most places, when someone puts their hand up and says, look, that was a stupid thing to do and i shouldnt have done that, even today there is a level of forgiveness. Over the last few weeks ive apologised for a couple of things i got wrong. And you just have to acknowledge where things have gone wrong and say, yes, that was wrong. And i noticed the former mayoral candidate immediately stepped down. That seems very honourable. He stepped down from his various posts. That seems to me to be an honourable way of doing it. Everybody gets things wrong. Theres a difference between deliberate wrongdoing and just, i dont know, negligently overlooking what you should have done. But theres none of us who are really in a position to throw rocks, frankly. But do you think theres been a bit of an absence of taking responsibility and apologising in the public sphere in the last few years . Thank you for depersonalising it yes, i do. I think that goes back a very long way. Yes, i think we need to recover that culture, both of kindness and forgiveness. Of distinguishing between blame and accountability. And we need much less of a Blame Culture about this, and more of a Lessons Learned culture. And when people get things wrong, if they say, i got that wrong, fine. Learn the lessons, move on. What about an Honesty Culture, and an Honesty Culture that comes from the top . That is clearly essential. And isnt it wonderful that we have such an extraordinary example at the top. Of the queen with her complete integrity in every possible way . Thats a nifty side swerve, archbishop. It really was. I wasnt quite sure what you were going to say there laughter. Lets talk about the Prime Minister and his honesty and his candour. Because youve talked about the need, youve accepted that of course we are all human, we all make mistakes, but we can all do a lot to mitigate against those mistakes by being honest when theyve been made. Does the Prime Minister need to be more honest . What do you think . The joy of being a journalist is i get to ask the questions. The joy of being an archbishop is i can tell you when im not going to laughter. Im not going to answer that question. One of the rules. You know, i do wear this funny bit of plastic, and one of the rules for it is that you talk ti} people before you talk about people. And i have, in this extraordinary job, which i am very privileged to have, i get to see all these people from time to time. And it is a pastoral thing, and im not going to say what i say in pastoral conversations. Thats my job. Theresa may did used to come to lambeth palace, i believe, sometimes. What would you counsel our current leaders, i suppose . And i know you dont want to personalise things, but is it an important principle for politicians that they should Tell The Truth . I mean, i think it wasjohn,. In the gospel ofjohn, i think, it says that the truth shall set you free. Thats whatjesus said. Should our politicians follow that principle . J he also said, i am the truth. So its another good principle to follow him. Yes, its really complicated, isnt it . Because there are bits. You know. Youre all very much more experienced in politics than i am. You know as well as i do there are things people cant say. That a lot of political work has to be done behind the scenes, because when it is public, it immediately destroys what youre trying to do. But i suppose i would say, you dont always tell the whole truth, in the sense that you dont lie, but you dont talk about everything. But when you speak, you should speak truthfully. And its very, very rare instances of National Security and so on where that shouldnt be the case. I think one other thing is, for a very long time, is what you battle with issues of spin and manipulation of news, and, come on, the church can do that with the best of them. But we need to step back from that. One of the things weve learned over the last few years in the church, for instance, on issues of safeguarding child abuse, is Stop Obfuscating and Tell The Truth. We did this, it was wrong, this is what we are going to do to set it right. Obviously, at this time of year, we look back on the past, but also we kind of look to next year. Because its notjust christmas, its new year as well. With whats happening with omicron, with what you have seen of human nature in the rest of the pandemic, are you hopeful for 2022 . Or a bit trepidatious . Im always hopeful. At christmas, there is an extraordinary paradox. We look back to a story set at a time when the world was a lot worse than this. And gods answer was to join that world as a baby, the most vulnerable and helpless of all human beings. And 2000 years later, 2. 4 billion people will celebrate that babys birth. I know christmas is a hugely busy time for people who are leading i worship for people around the world, but what do you do when you get a chance to put your feet up . Mince pie, box of quality street, box sets on . The Vicar Of Dibley . What do you do . Thank you. No, not the Vicar Of Dibley why not . That was said with a passion. Everyones seen the Vicar Of Dibley. I mean, thats not weird. Everyone knows all the episodes off by heart anyway. Yeah, absolutely. Weve all seen the Vicar Of Dibley and dawn french is superb in it. But im not going to go there again. I will get into so much trouble. Every time i talk to laura, and its probably all of you, i get into social media trouble so im trying to avoid it. Oh, dear. Ignore social media i sit back with the family, and christmas day, the working day, ends at about five oclock in the evening for me. And i come back and we have a meal about 7pm. There will be as many of the family as can safely be there, and we sit around and chat. And get the supper ready. Then we have a nice big meal and then we clear up and go to bed. Im afraid we dont even turn on the telly apart from the queen. Can ijust ask one question . Earlier this year i went on a tour around sandringham, the queens home in norfolk. Oh, did you . And i saw, in the drawing room, the queens jigsaw table, where she sits there doing a jigsaw every christmas. Were you envious . And i was veryjealous. I noticed there were two seats there, so presumably her majesty does a jigsaw with a companion. Have you ever sat in the queens Companion Jigsaw Puzzle Seat . Yes. Gasps. Whatjigsaw did you do . I cant remember. Im terrible atjigsaws. Whats her strategy . Does she do the edges first . Youd have to ask her that at the next interview. There we are. Thats pastorally confidential. She is. I mean, the queen is. I was so overwhelmed at being there. It was the first time id properly met her. And she was doing a jigsaw but i knew i mustnt put the last piece in the jigsaw. 0r leave with a piece in your pocket. Oh, golly. I think it would be the tower of london. Laughter. Brilliant, archbishop, thank you so much. On that revelatory note, thats made my christmas. Thank you very much. Thank you. Happy christmas to all three of you. And, laura, happy new year, which will doubtless matter more to you. Goodness me, thank you very much for coming on. A very happy christmas to you. Thank you for sharing and beingi so candid with us this afternoon. Thats worrying. I wish you hadnt said that last bit. Take care thanks a lot. Thank you, bye. Bye newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Hello there. Weve seen mixed fortunes of the weather today with this area of High Pressure in some areas of been chilly, but sunny all day. Other areas have been really grey and gloomy with spots of drizzle. This area of High Pressure isnt going anywhere fast. Its sticking around through the weekend bringing a lot of dry but cloudy weather. There will be some sunshine around, also some dense fog to watch out for. It will also be turning a bit cooler, i think youll notice that during the course of sunday across more northern and eastern areas. Tonight, well start to see a return to this dense fog across parts of northern and Eastern England in particular. Skies will be clearer further north and so it will be chilly here with the touch of frost further south. The thickest of the cloud means temperatures wont be quite as low. So, we start saturday off on a relatively mild note across the south, a lot of cloud and gloomy with you. Dense mist and fog will be clear across northern Eastern England, and you will see some sunshine here, the same too across scotland so, potentially another bright day here, albeit cool. Further south, its going to be mild but grey. Calls for the Prime Minister to get a grip after the conservatives suffer a humiliating defeat in the North Shropshire by election. Three, two, one cheering and applause. Glee for the liberal democrats, who overturned a tory majority of 23 thousand leading to a deflated borisjohnson. Clearly the vote in North Shropshire is a very disappointing result and i totally understand peoples frustrations. And theres more trouble for the Prime Minister tonight the uks top Civil Servant steps aside from leading an inquiry into parties held in downing st against Lockdown Rules because of an event in his own office. Also on the programme. A Record Number of covid boosters across the uk on the same day as a Record Number of reported positive covid cases