Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Papers 20240709

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and a conservative peer. tomorrow's front pages. the lead for the mirror is a picture of borisjohnson hosting a number ten christmas quiz last year, which the paper claims is in breach of covid laws. with a little bit of tinsel on one side of him and apparently we're told there was bubbly, too. "frivolous, vengeful, pa rtisan". according to the mail, those are the words the prime minister has used to describe the bbc�*s coverage of the downing street party scandal, an exclusive story first broken by our colleagues at itv news. the telegraph suggests borisjohnson is set to face his first major cabinet revolt over a �*plan c�* of further covid restrictions in the fight against omicron. from a cabinet rebellion to a public backlash — the observer has spoken to behavioural scientists who say falling trust in the prime minister means some will ignore or even go against any new measures which might be introduced. the express thinks the week ahead will be one of reckoning for borisjohnson. the paper says as well as the nation's christmas plans, the prime minister's own premiership is hanging in the balance. and the times has got hold of leaked documents which say preparations are being made for the mass vaccination of primary schoolchildren as the fight against omicron intensifies, but the show must go on. the paper carries a photo of five primary school shepherds in west yorkshire, getting ready for their nativity play. right, on with the motley. let's be in with ros. yeah. there doesn't seem to be any end to the moment to these stories that seem to be coming out about what may have been parties or gatherings or celebrations last christmas at the heart of government. now, idon�*t christmas at the heart of government. now, i don't really think that this particular picture shows any particular damning proof or evidence that there was something terrible going on here that would be breaking the rules is people were working and distancing and were in their place of work.— working and distancing and were in their place of work. there's no sign of snagging — their place of work. there's no sign of snagging under _ their place of work. there's no sign of snogging under the _ their place of work. there's no sign of snogging under the mistletoe i their place of work. there's no sign| of snogging under the mistletoe top yellow not at all, but i think what is clear is the _ yellow not at all, but i think what is clear is the public _ yellow not at all, but i think what is clear is the public is _ yellow not at all, but i think wisgt is clear is the public is really furious that while they were deprived so much last christmas with people not being able to even hug dying loved ones, not being able to see grandparents living alone or isolated from their loved ones at christmas, there was what looks like a parent —— apparent disregard for the rules we were all sticking to. somehow the government hasn't managed to get rid of this impression that there was one rule for everybody else, and a different rule for those at the heart of government. and that's really damaging, i think, for trust in government, and i hope that somehow, we can get back on an even feel for this. i we can get back on an even feel for this. , , ,.,, . we can get back on an even feel for this. , ., this. i suppose giving what ros sa s, this. i suppose giving what ros says. joe. _ this. i suppose giving what ros says. joe. the _ this. i suppose giving what ros says, joe, the mirror _ this. i suppose giving what ros says, joe, the mirror is - this. i suppose giving what ros says, joe, the mirror is proud l this. i suppose giving what ros| says, joe, the mirror is proud of says, joe, the mirror is proud of its front page, but it always makes the photo are relevant is the story is still on the front pages. —— irrelevant. that's perhaps more damaging for government than what one might call a smoking gun. in a sense, it doesn't matter because the story is still front page news and too many tory voters, other voters will be consuming again that story for what feels like the 11th day of succession, something like that. you're right. it's kind of fresh fire for— you're right. it's kind of fresh fire for the _ you're right. it's kind of fresh fire for the news cycle. i think this_ fire for the news cycle. i think this picture doesn't show a technical breach of the rules at that time _ technical breach of the rules at that time. london was in tier two which _ that time. london was in tier two which forbade social mixing, not shows_ which forbade social mixing, not shows the — which forbade social mixing, not shows the prime minister with two other— shows the prime minister with two other people in a social context. this is_ other people in a social context. this is not— other people in a social context. this is not a _ other people in a social context. this is not a work context. that would _ this is not a work context. that would he — this is not a work context. that would he a _ this is not a work context. that would be a breach. the prime minister— would be a breach. the prime minister said the guidelines were always— minister said the guidelines were always followed, but this is the case _ always followed, but this is the case where the guidance was not followed — case where the guidance was not followed. i think the prime minister will hope _ followed. i think the prime minister will hope that people will give him the benefit of a doubt given that many— the benefit of a doubt given that many of— the benefit of a doubt given that many of us word doing things like zoom _ many of us word doing things like zoom quizzes, but it is a technical breach of— zoom quizzes, but it is a technical breach of the rules. i think it would — breach of the rules. i think it would he _ breach of the rules. i think it would be very interesting to watch tory mps — would be very interesting to watch tory mps go further. this is another fresh _ tory mps go further. this is another fresh swell— tory mps go further. this is another fresh swell of public anger. it's a striking — fresh swell of public anger. it's a striking story. its fresh swell of public anger. it's a striking story-— striking story. as you said, their team have _ striking story. as you said, their team have certainly _ striking story. as you said, their team have certainly been - striking story. as you said, their l team have certainly been pursuing this doggedly. what do you make of the mail on sunday's front page. i think this isn't a great look for the prime — i think this isn't a great look for the prime minister to be blaming the media _ the prime minister to be blaming the media. omicron appears and pretty much _ media. omicron appears and pretty much every— media. omicron appears and pretty much every single bbc news bulletin icu. much every single bbc news bulletin icu~ -- _ much every single bbc news bulletin icu~ -- ill _ much every single bbc news bulletin icu. —— ic. significantly unfair, but it— icu. —— ic. significantly unfair, but it speaks of the prime minister... he struggling himself and almost laughing out and trying to find _ and almost laughing out and trying to find someone to blame. actually, this is— to find someone to blame. actually, this is all— to find someone to blame. actually, this is all down to him, and the way that downing street was behaving at this time _ that downing street was behaving at this time last year. he can't be blaming — this time last year. he can't be blaming the lights of bbc. i'm unimpressed by this.- blaming the lights of bbc. i'm unimpressed by this. ros? i have to auree unimpressed by this. ros? i have to a . ree with unimpressed by this. ros? i have to agree with joe- _ unimpressed by this. ros? i have to agree with joe. it _ unimpressed by this. if" i have to agree with joe. it wasn't even the agree withjoe. it wasn't even the bbc that broke the story, it was itv. much of the media, print media, has been covering the story nonstop. the bbc is one player, and it is very odd to me that the prime minister is particularly lashing out at the bbc. the bbc has been covering the story and the important of boosters and trying to encourage people to get vaccinated, so i find this rather puzzling. whether or not... whether or not the government itself broke its own rules is an important issue for the public, so i don't think he should blame the media for highlighting what appears to have gone on, and we need to know in more detail what actually was going on. in more detail what actually was auoin on. ., ., going on. ros, the front of the telegraph- _ specifically, this isn't about the rules already agreed for next week. it's about people already thinking of what might be the next line that has to be drawn.— has to be drawn. yeah, i think what's happening _ has to be drawn. yeah, i think what's happening here - has to be drawn. yeah, i think what's happening here is - has to be drawn. yeah, i think what's happening here is that l has to be drawn. yeah, i think i what's happening here is that the cabinet is registering its disquiet that there may be this slippery slope. we start with plan b, and then already, there's talk of plan c for you even see the proper data that would suggest any of this is absolutely going to be necessary. we are anticipating something. of course, this time last year, the government was accused of being too slow. but we didn't have mass vaccinations at this time last year. and there is really good evidence that actually, the effect of this new variant may be a greater spread in greater numbers of people actually carrying covid, but not greater numbers of people seriously ill and dying from it. the evidence from south africa suggests that the numbers of hospitalizations who need oxygen and who are dying is much smaller this time around. they have much less vaccines than we do. yeah, it's interesting. _ much less vaccines than we do. yeah, it's interesting, they _ much less vaccines than we do. yeah, it's interesting, they were _ it's interesting, they were observing on question time apparently that the information he'd seen was that people were still being admitted to hospital, but they were staying for fewer days than with the delta variance. the curious thing is that some variants don't seem to have much impact on some part of the world. truly seems to know all the different factors. one fears is going to be one for the reviewers that years later to work out rather than people living through it at the moment. joe, what about the politics of this? because in a sense, stories like this appear in a sense, stories like this appear in the papers. it's almost the kind of week two backbenchers when they get the message, your concerns are shared by some of us in cabinet. does that help the prime minister because it reassures back pincers that there are other people with different views —— backbenchers. does it have the reverse effect? i does it have the reverse effect? i think it's encouraging to a rebellion. i think up until now, the cabinet _ rebellion. i think up until now, the cabinet has — rebellion. i think up until now, the cabinet has supported him and there's— cabinet has supported him and there's been this caucus on the back bench _ there's been this caucus on the back bench who— there's been this caucus on the back bench who have been readily opposed. but to _ bench who have been readily opposed. but to have _ bench who have been readily opposed. but to have an even number opposed to him. _ but to have an even number opposed to him, that's quite something. it would _ to him, that's quite something. it would really constrain his ability to act _ would really constrain his ability to act i— would really constrain his ability to act. i think he has to be very careful — to act. i think he has to be very careful and _ to act. i think he has to be very careful. and indeed, with his own premiership, if it's cabinet is losing — premiership, if it's cabinet is losing confidence, that's worrying. you'd _ losing confidence, that's worrying. you'd want — losing confidence, that's worrying. you'd want to keep an eye on that, and i_ you'd want to keep an eye on that, and i think— you'd want to keep an eye on that, and i think this is about plan c, and i think this is about plan c, and whether we will go into even more _ and whether we will go into even more restrictions matters because of that spread. i think the government is worried _ that spread. i think the government is worried about the degree to which current— is worried about the degree to which current vaccines don't protect. it's also a _ current vaccines don't protect. it's also a concern that if many more people _ also a concern that if many more people get— also a concern that if many more people get the variant, even if it's less hospitalizations, that will still he — less hospitalizations, that will still he a _ less hospitalizations, that will still be a pretty high number of hospitalizations, and that's the worry— hospitalizations, and that's the worry the — hospitalizations, and that's the worry the scientists have. that's what _ worry the scientists have. that's what johnson worry the scientists have. that's whatjohnson is worry the scientists have. that's what johnson is currently pursuing. right _ what johnson is currently pursuing. right. just— what johnson is currently pursuing. right. just on the times, that picks up right. just on the times, that picks up the point you're making about the rebellion. the numbers are 60 tories. we heard the government will split this into three votes, so i guess it's hoping there will be were really bad votes and the other will be lost. it's going to go through because labour is going to back it. if virtually all tories who are members of the government did vote for it, the government did vote for it, the government would probably get its way still —— didn't vote. government would probably get its way still -- didn't vote.— way still -- didn't vote. obviously, the government _ way still -- didn't vote. obviously, the government would _ way still -- didn't vote. obviously, the government would get - way still -- didn't vote. obviously, the government would get its - way still -- didn't vote. obviously, | the government would get its way. there is a possibility that labour will take an opportunity to inflict a defeat on the government on one of them. there is a mandatory mask wearing, which is one of them. there's a mandatory vaccination... that's very interesting because labour used to be a get that. that's a ossible labour used to be a get that. that's a possible one _ labour used to be a get that. that's a possible one that _ labour used to be a get that. that's a possible one that won't _ labour used to be a get that. that's a possible one that won't be - labour used to be a get that. “trust�*s a possible one that won't be going through. then as those the so—called vaccine passports that require to identify yourself as been fact is needed and tested before you could be admitted into certain places —— vaccinated. all of those are seen as infringements of liberty, and all of those are the subject of a real and serious tory backbench rebellion at the moment, which is unusual because there's a by—election coming up on thursday, and there will be great pressure for tory mps to try to be loyal at least this week ahead of that by—election. but the anger is there, and parliament rises this week, so if they don't do anything now, they've lost the opportunity. i think they are determined to make a stand because this is a point of principle. what kind of country do we want to live in? do we want to live and one where government mandates serious limit on people's freedom maybe undermines their wintel wellbeing, causes harm to people who will be frightened —— mental wellbeing. also potentially causes further deaths from illnesses and other areas, which may or may not have been considered. we haven't seen the evidence, and the mps want parliament to scrutinise the evident and interrogate the evidence. and we haven't had that information. boosterjabs haven't had that information. booster jabs for over—30s. a bit of public service information thatis a bit of public service information that is on the front of the independent. if you're over 30, and you can actually book a covid jab from tomorrow, people are being urged to dojust from tomorrow, people are being urged to do just that, to book their jobs if they can. the number of months is reduced from six months to three months. you'll be able to get yourself topped up. do you want to pick up will on what ros was saying before we end? are you picking up now real worry and conservative ranks about the by—election? i now real worry and conservative ranks about the by-election? i spoke to a conservative _ ranks about the by-election? i spoke to a conservative mp _ ranks about the by-election? i spoke to a conservative mp who _ ranks about the by-election? i spoke to a conservative mp who said - ranks about the by-election? i spoke to a conservative mp who said they l to a conservative mp who said they expect _ to a conservative mp who said they expect lots — to a conservative mp who said they expect lots of private secretaries to campaign... expect lots of private secretaries to campaign- - -— to campaign... crosstalk laughter _ laughter there's a bit of concern. there's 20,000 — there's a bit of concern. there's 20,000 on _ there's a bit of concern. there's 20,000 on the maturity. there is increasing — 20,000 on the maturity. there is increasing confidence among the liberal— increasing confidence among the liberal democrats, so it's looking really _ liberal democrats, so it's looking really close. if the prime minister loss that, — really close. if the prime minister loss that, many tory mps as a that would _ loss that, many tory mps as a that would he _ loss that, many tory mps as a that would he a — loss that, many tory mps as a that would be a real tipping point moment. it would be huge to watch. joe and ros, thank you very much for guiding us through so expertly through the front pages. the only want to mention is we don't have the answer, scientists saying they

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