your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. and it's not great news — the boss of a us firm who fired 900 of his staff in a single zoom call. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. �*dysfunctional and chaotic�* — that's the damning verdict of a foreign office whistle—blower on the way it handled the evacuation of people from afghanistan after the taliban took over in august. raphael marshall — who resigned from hisjob in september — has told mps it's clear some of those left behind have since been murdered by the taliban. he says thousands of emails pleading for british help went unread, and that the foreign secretary at the time — dominic raab — was slow to make decisions. mr raab has denied the claims. here's our diplomatic correspondent, james landale. this was kabul airport last summer, as thousands sought to flee the advancing taliban. amid chaotic scenes, britain and other western powers tried to evacuate those it could, but according to a whistle—blower, there was chaos in london too. the foreign office crisis centre was handling requests from afghans who were at risk because of their links to the uk. raphael marshall was a young official working there and he says the process of choosing who could be evacuated was arbitrary and dysfunctional. he said up to 150,000 people applied for evacuation under the scheme but he estimated fewer than 5% of these people have received any assistance. it is clear that some of those left behind have since been murdered by the taliban. one weekend in august, when these afghans were trying to get out, mr marshall said in london there were not enough staff, with too few working overtime and on the saturday he was the only person monitoring and processing e—mails in the afghan special cases inbox. thousands of which remained unread. he also says staff lacked expertise in afghanistan and soldiers brought in to help couldn't access computers. we already knew that many afghans had struggled to get in contact with the foreign office here. mps had raised many of their cases. what this evidence does is tell us what was going on inside and it's a story of a system that just wasn't working. i'm deeply concerned by many of things that the whistle—blower has raised, including about all of those at the very top of the department. the whistle—blower mr marshall was dealing with a very, very difficult situation in which many of us were trying to get out people who had served us with enormous courage and integrity. mr marshall also singled out dominic raab, then foreign secretary, who he said delayed taking decisions until he had all the facts set out in well presented tables. a claim mr raab denies. we are not talking about days, it's not being suggested weeks, but several hours to make sure that we had the facts, and actually that is, i would suggest, a reasonably swift turnaround. and in terms of presentation, of course with the volume of claims coming in, i make no apology for saying i needed the clear facts for each case presented precisely, so that we can make swift decisions. a foreign office spokesman said soldiers and diplomats had worked tirelessly to evacuate more than 15,000 people in a fortnight. but some of the senior officials involved will face tough questions from mps this afternoon. james landale, bbc news. this afternoon, the prime minister has acknowledged there were some delays in the rescue effort. of course sometimes decisions took hours longer than we want to do, but you have to be careful about how you do it stop it was still an astonishing thing to get 15,000 people airlifted out of couple in pretty harrowing circumstances, and of course as you know, we continue to have the afghan resettlement scheme to help people to whom we owe obligations and who were may be leaving afghanistan in fear of their lives. 5ir leaving afghanistan in fear of their lives. ,, ,, ., ., , leaving afghanistan in fear of their lives. ,, ,, ., ., lives. sir keir starmer has also rated to the — lives. sir keir starmer has also rated to the news _ lives. sir keir starmer has also rated to the news and - lives. sir keir starmer has also rated to the news and was - lives. sir keir starmer has also - rated to the news and was scathing of the government's handling of it. this is devastating testimony, and it lays— this is devastating testimony, and it lays bare — this is devastating testimony, and it lays bare the shambolic incompetence of the government. thousands— incompetence of the government. thousands of afghans, to whom we owed _ thousands of afghans, to whom we owed a _ thousands of afghans, to whom we owed a duty, they stood with us, we owed a duty, they stood with us, we owe to _ owed a duty, they stood with us, we owe to them — owed a duty, they stood with us, we owe to them a duty of protection and they've _ owe to them a duty of protection and they've been let down and left to their_ they've been let down and left to their fate — they've been let down and left to theirfate. i they've been let down and left to their fate. i think it is shocking that_ their fate. i think it is shocking that we — their fate. i think it is shocking that we are all now learning that e-maits — that we are all now learning that e—mails and letters that were sent into the _ e—mails and letters that were sent into the foreign office, including from _ into the foreign office, including from my— into the foreign office, including from my office, were opened but hevent— from my office, were opened but haven't been actioned and it makes a total failure _ haven't been actioned and it makes a total failure of political leadership while the ex foreign secretary was busy on the beach instead — secretary was busy on the beach instead of— secretary was busy on the beach instead of doing hisjob. let's talk to our political correspondent damian grammaticas. on the face of it, extremely damning for dominic raab and indeed the government?— for dominic raab and indeed the government? ~ , , , , ., government? well, yes, this is a 39 to 40 page — government? well, yes, this is a 39 to 40 page dossier _ government? well, yes, this is a 39 to 40 page dossier that's _ government? well, yes, this is a 39 to 40 page dossier that's been - government? well, yes, this is a 39 to 40 page dossier that's been put l to 40 page dossier that's been put together by raphael marshall, this former staff member at the foreign office, who was working in that effort at the time to evacuate people, and those pages list all of the different things. he says he believes there were failures, and it's pretty detailed in some of those things. so that is now for the foreign affairs committee here in the house of commons, who will look at that. they will also question the former ambassador to afghanistan and other officials this afternoon, a little later today. so all of this is now they are to be dug into and poured over by that committee and by others. but as you were hearing, the foreign secretary at the time, dominic raab, who has since moved of course after all of those events in afghanistan, moved to a different job, justice secretary, he said that no, it was a tough job and they worked hard at the time and the difficulties were in sifting the information and deciding which cases were the right ones. the whistle—blower had said that part of theissueis whistle—blower had said that part of the issue is that mr raab didn't like the way the information was being presented and demanded it in a specific way, tabulated in spreadsheets who he could look at it —— so he could look at it. mr raab said that wasn't quite true, the important thing was to get the details. one important thing worth saying, the prime minister talked about the, he said, we still have the afghan resettlement scheme to help people to whom we owe obligations. that's the scheme for government announced at the time, said it would bring 20,000 people here, details to be announced. if you go onto the commit website, i have just literally done it, you go onto the commit website, i havejust literally done it, it you go onto the commit website, i have just literally done it, it says if you are in afghanistan are trying to get out of afghanistan, we have this scheme we are setting up, click here for further information on when you click, you are told the scheme is not yet open. please check this page regularly forfurther is not yet open. please check this page regularly for further details. we know that is a problem, that mps and others have identified, this scheme is yet to be put in place and made fully operational although the government says people are still being brought out or have come out of afghanistan. that's the big scheme they talked about and the web page telling you it's not up and thinking in terms of what raphael marshall said and that written evidence. . ., ., , marshall said and that written evidence. . .. , evidence. dominic raab said he wasn't accusing _ evidence. dominic raab said he wasn't accusing marshall - evidence. dominic raab said he wasn't accusing marshall of - evidence. dominic raab said he l wasn't accusing marshall of lying, he was just correcting the facts, that's an interesting way of answering that question. and also, this allegation of deliberately obfuscating when e—mails had been read or not, almost as political coverfor read or not, almost as political cover for the government and the government said, no, we have read these e—mails. talk us through that. that's one of the claims made in the points by raphael marshall, one of thoseit points by raphael marshall, one of those it is that there were so many e—mails coming in, he says at any one time there were thousands, there may have been 5000 unread e—mails in the inbox that people in afghanistan were being told to send e—mails to. but marshall says there was a point at which he says he was the only person in the office monitoring that inbox, but that he believed there was some sort of effort to tick the box in an e—mail that says it looks like it has been read, so that politicians could say all these cases are being dealt with. the foreign secretary has said, the foreign secretary has said, the foreign secretary has said, the foreign secretary at the time dominic raab it said that all cases were dealt with, and again they talked about this, the fact they viewed this as an enormous success, an effort to get 15,000 people under very difficult circumstances. but that goes back to the sense of the time that we knew that there were real difficulties, the many afghans complaining and saying and coming out and saying they had been trying to contact, they had been sending e—mails and they were not getting responses. so all of this, what the whistle—blower is saying, is pointing to what he says was going on behind the scenes at the time in the foreign office.— the foreign office. damien, thank ou ve the foreign office. damien, thank you very much- — you very much. we will be trying to listen in to the former british ambassador to cargill when he starts giving evidence injust under an hour. —— my ambassador to cabot. our afghanistan correspondent, secunder kermani, is in kabul. there are still lots of afghans who are desperate to get out of the country. i have been speaking to a former british army interpreter who is yet to receive a response to his application from the uk, although he said that around a dozen other former interpreters, he personally knows, who had been meant to board evacuation flights in august but had been unable to get into the airport they had recently managed to arrive in britain. anotherformer government official that i know who had been trying to leave has told me he's just recently managed to get into pakistan with his family. he is desperately trying to find any country that will accept them long—term. around 100 afghan journalists are already in that kind of state of limbo in pakistan, again, looking for somewhere that they can travel on to. there is a sense of bitterness amongst many of those who were left behind, who were not able to board the evacuation flights, who feel there were more deserving than some of those who managed to board them. we deserving than some of those who managed to board them.— deserving than some of those who managed to board them. we will have more on this — managed to board them. we will have more on this story _ managed to board them. we will have more on this story in _ managed to board them. we will have more on this story in a _ managed to board them. we will have more on this story in a moment. - more on this story in a moment. before that, at a travel rule has come into force today after the emergence of the omicron variant of coronavirus. —— tighter travel rules. people coming to the uk over the age of 12 now have to show evidence of a negative covid test taken no more than 48 hours before starting their journey. our health correspondent jim reed has more. dozens have been queueing in the winter rain for their booster vaccines. this site at sandown racecourse is now offering walk—in jabs without an appointment. well, i've got an appointment next week, but i thought i'm due actually now to have it this week, so i'm just going to get it as early as i can. ministers have said they want to put the booster programme on steroids to better protect people from the new omicron variant. the numbers receiving a third dose have been going up, but we have not yet seen that surge in jabs the government is talking about. it is thought the full accelerated roll—out might only start from next week in england and other parts of the uk. the booster programme is the fastest in europe and i think we have done more boosters than any comparable country. that doesn't mean it couldn't go faster. i mean, we are ahead of our own timetable. there is still a lot we don't know about omicron. scientists, though, are increasingly confident it can spread faster than the existing delta version of the virus. clearly, omicron has demonstrated an ability to spread rapidly within a delta context and within a highly vaccinated context, particularly in gatherings where covid—19 likes to spread anyway, so christmas parties, workplace gatherings, conferences. new travel rules come into force today in an effort to slow the spread of the new variant. anyone 12 and over must prove they have tested negative for covid before they travel. the government has brought back its red list of high risk countries, with nigeria added yesterday. anyone arriving from there must go into hotel quarantine at a cost of more than £2,000 — a move which has come as a shock to some travellers. there was real panic. we just didn't know if we could get back within the 24 hour window or whether we had to stick with the plans that we had, so, so much uncertainty, and then on top of thatjust a real shed load of financial pressure as well. vaccinations are the best form of protection... - new rules and this new publicity campaign are all part of the government's plans for what's hoped will be a more normal christmas. while the danger from omicron is still unclear, the message is that vaccinations are still the most effective way to stay safe this year. jim reed, bbc news. returning to the situation in afghanistan and the evacuation of british nationals or people working with british forces back in the summer. i'm joined now by nadene ghouri, a journalist who worked in afghanistan for five years, and set up a volunteer group to help. get people evacuated, called the afghanistan support group. thank you forjoining us. i'm not sure how much you have heard or have read about raphael marshall as mike claims, do they mirror what you experienced on the ground? eden; experienced on the ground? every sinale experienced on the ground? every single word- _ experienced on the ground? every single word. and _ experienced on the ground? every single word. and i _ experienced on the ground? every single word. and i can't _ experienced on the ground? every single word. and i can't thank - experienced on the ground? er single word. and i can't thank this person enough for telling the truth about what happened. those of us who were in the middle of this chaotic and botched evacuation recognise everything that has been said here. i was part of a handful of volunteers who are gathering names of the most at risk, work that should have been done by the government in the weeks before the pull—out, but it was left a handful of volunteers to try and scrub out the names of the most at risk. i was talking aboutjournalist on taliban wanted lists, high courtjudges, and i was given a special e—mail which supposedly was straight to the foreign office. we now know that even people who had access to that special e—mail, many of those e—mails also went unread. i was trying at one point to get a critically injured baby evacuated in the final 24 hours, and it's interesting that i read this morning that the discs were not man for a 24—hour period, because i thought that was happening at the time, i wasn't getting responses out of key office hours. and even now, some of these most critical cases were getting just generic responses, if any at all. last night i had to go on social media and i had to raise funds for a flight for a british national and a four—year—old child who had been stuck in tehran. that's the only way to get them home. the high courtjudge ijust mentioned, she was somebody i was trying to through on the special e—mail. her life was very much at risk so i had no choice but to take pakistan on a temporary visa in september, where she is still there. myself, her family were in the uk, we are writing to the foreign office all the time about this case, we haven't got a response. the time about this case, we haven't got a resnonse-_ got a response. there were several cases which — got a response. there were several cases which people _ got a response. there were several cases which people fit _ got a response. there were several cases which people fit into, - got a response. there were several cases which people fit into, british | cases which people fit into, british nationals automatically were taken out, exceptional cases and special cases, as i understand. which group where you dealing with, and when you e—mailed the address, did you get any response? i e-mailed the address, did you get any fearsome?— e-mailed the address, did you get any response? i was dealing with all of those cases. _ any response? i was dealing with all of those cases. so, _ any response? i was dealing with all of those cases. so, no, _ any response? i was dealing with all of those cases. so, no, although - of those cases. so, no, although occasionally i got a response, i did get one for the critically injured baby but by the time it came through it was too late to do anything about it was too late to do anything about it so that family remains in a bowl. —— carbo. but the whole system is just utterly chaotic and shambolic. and support group, we nicknamed it death by spreadsheet because there was no standardised template so every time you passed other information you asked for it in a different format and that something else that raphael marshall mentioned. and that's not a joke because people died because of the lack of system, because of the fact we had to import people's names and data into a different spreadsheet each time. imagine how much critical time that kind of thing wasted. despite this, dominic raab has said that britain got more people out in that britain got more people out in that timeframe than any other country apart from the united states. is that not something the government should be proud of? weill. government should be proud of? well, i have government should be proud of? well, i have worked — government should be proud of? well, i have worked with _ government should be proud of? -ii i have worked with different countries to get people out and i can tell you there were some smaller countries that had much more efficient systems. they may not have got the same numbers out by the people they did get out went through for this trauma trying to get onto planes. so i also don't know if i trust anything the foreign secretary says. he can't even tell it how many british nationals have been left behind. we don't still have accurate figures on how many british army translators there are left behind. because he has given his defence in a round of interviews today, and we have broadcast that. i wondered what you may eat of the 5% that raphael marshall so close to the figure for people who did escape. how many of those who didn't get out do you now have actually been killed by the taliban? . , have actually been killed by the taliban? ., , ,, ., ., ., taliban? personally, i know of half a dozen people _ taliban? personally, i know of half a dozen people who _ taliban? personally, i know of half a dozen people who have - taliban? personally, i know of half a dozen people who have been - taliban? personally, i know of half. a dozen people who have been killed. and that includes people who were actually due to board a british flight and who were kind of thrown out of the airport at the last minute after the suicide bombing. i have another case of a british national who was actually thrown off an evacuation flight during the chaos, he was beaten up by the taliban very badly about three days ago so we've been trying to raise awareness of his case. it couldn't be more critical and the only option now is for people to go to pakistan on temporary visas, they then run it and they risk deportation back to afghanistan, it is a critical situation. fact is, it was bad in august, it is even now. what happened in august happened, maybe we do need to move on from that, but there is no excuse for the lack of process or system. why have i got one of the most high—profile female high courtjudges in coniston, head of the kabulfamily high courtjudges in coniston, head of the kabul family court, sitting in pakistan with an expired visa? that is a critical case that i've been racing since august that should have gone through a special e—mail, how is still happening? have gone through a special e-mail, how is still happening?— how is still happening? thank you ve much how is still happening? thank you very much for— how is still happening? thank you very much forjoining _ how is still happening? thank you very much forjoining us. - several hundred homes are still without power, 11 days after storm arwen hit — and wreacked havoc on large parts of the uk. now storm barra is sweeping in from the atlantic. there are weather warnings for snow and strong winds in some areas. in a moment we'll hear from danny savage in county durham, but first chris page, who's in newcastle in county down. storm barra is still roaring. for most of the morning we have been pelted by horizontal rain, as well as the strong winds. i have to say it is a bit drier now at least, with high tide here in newcastle and county down showing that there is another particular danger, a storm surge, so here on the promenade, which is usually a very popular place for walking, nobody is out for a walk today because these waves really are pelting the seafront. people have been told not to go down to the edge of the water because there is a chance it —— that they could be swept away by a wave. we are slightly elevated here so we are in a safe place but you can certainly see the risk when you look at the scene behind me. across the border in the irish republic, the conditions are even worse, there most severe weather warning of all for some south—eastern parts and in a number of coastal areas, the government is saying that schools should close today to enable everybody to stay safe. well, this is what storm barra is doing to the high pennines at the moment. this is the a66, behind me you go into cumbria and in this direction is county durham. we have been talking to some of the people that live in the remote communities up that live in the remote communities up here this morning and i say they came back home with power in the last day or so —— they came back on but there are still several hundred properties across north—east england that do not have power at the moment. but we've seen the workers down on the wires further down from here today still carrying out repairs. that work is carrying on, but although this is quite a severe winter storm, we think this road will stay open, very much alike we saw the other day when they closed this road for several days. so not as bad as a week or so ago but pretty severe winter weather up here today. jails in england and wales are to be set targets for the first time for keeping out drugs and for testing prisoners. body scanners, biometric identification and drugs dogs are among some of the measures proposed to stem the flow of dangerous substances that the ministry ofjustice says "wreak havoc" in prisons. thejustice secretary, dominic raab, has been outlining more of what's to be included in the prisons white paper. the maternal grandfather of six—year—old arthur labinyo—hughes has said his killers should never be freed. peter halcrow also said someone should have stepped in when "alarm bells" were ringing. arthur was killed in solihull last year by his father, thomas hughes, who was sentenced to 21 years for manslaughter, and his partner, emma tustin, who was jailed for life for his murder. their sentences are being examined to consider whether they were too lenient. the government has admitted a series of failings in the years leading up to the grenfell tower disaster and apologised to the victims of the fire. at the public inquiry into the tragedy, a barrister representing the government said it was �*deeply sorry�* for its past failures in overseeing building safety. the department is deeply sorry for its past _ the department is deeply sorry for its past failure is in relation to the oversight of the system that regulated safety in the construction and refurbishment of high rise buildings. it also deeply regrets past failures in relation to the superintendents of the building controi— superintendents of the building control bodies, which themselves had a key role _ control bodies, which themselves had a key role in _ control bodies, which themselves had a key role in ensuring the safe construction and refurbishment of such buildings. it apologises to the bereaved _ such buildings. it apologises to the bereaved residents and survivors of the fire _ bereaved residents and survivors of the fire for— bereaved residents and survivors of the fire for such failures. more bereaved residents and survivors of the fire for such failures.— the fire for such failures. more on that later- — the fire for such failures. more on that later. the _ the fire for such failures. more on that later. the government - the fire for such failures. more on| that later. the government saying there were — that later. the government saying there were problems _ that later. the government saying there were problems and - that later. the government saying there were problems and failures, it�*s deeply sorry for them, it�*s apologised to the bereaved survivors and residents of the fire but also says that the apology cannot change what happened or compensate them for the immeasurable loss and grief suffered stab jason the immeasurable loss and grief suffered stabjason baker qc, the government�*s barrister. ligament isn�*t saying it is responsible for the safety of individual buildings, it�*s also saying that in some cases the industry didn�*t follow regulations that the government regards as absolutely clear. and that will be an issue, i think, which will be disputed and debated at the enquiry in its coming phases. and also the barrister set out the many changes that have happened, the introduction of a building safety regulator being one of them, which is in effect a complete u—turn from the previous policy of trying to cut red tape when it came to the construction of buildings. hundreds of staff of an american companyjoined a zoom call with their boss, only to be told he was sacking them. vishal garg, chief executive of a mortgage firm called better.com, blamed staff performance, productivity and market changes for the mass online dismassal of some 900 people, just before christmas. lebo diseko reports. thank you forjoining. um... i come to you with not great news. an understatement if ever there was one. nearly 900 staff called to a zoom meeting by their boss to be told this. if you�*re on this call, you are... ..part of the unlucky group being laid off. your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. while his actions are legal in the us, where this took place, here in the uk, things are different. if we are talking about uk law, there is a very clear process that you need to follow, and there are also codes of practice and organisations will have their own policies and procedures as well. whenever you had to make people redundant, or whether you have to dismiss people, there is a right way of doing it, there is a human way of doing it. since the zoom sacking went viral, better.com has told the bbc that... woman: this is not real! oh, my god. i can't believe this! gut—wrenching too for those on the other side of this call. lebo diseko, bbc news. we can speak to the chief executive of the chartered management institute. sacking people is never easy, just wonder, in his defence he said, it was my decision, we didn�*t hear that in the clip, my decision and i wanted you to hear it from me. as opposed to just some anonymous hr e—mail informing them. weill. as opposed to just some anonymous hr e-mail informing them.— e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook _ e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook case _ e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook case in _ e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook case in how - e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook case in how not. e-mail informing them. well, it is still a textbook case in how not to | still a textbook case in how not to do it. he was very callous, he lacked empathy, there was absolutely no appreciation for how people on the other side were feeling. and actually, it has been like a boomerang because what is the reputational impact of what he�*s done? this business provides people with mortgages and i am absolutely sure that potential customers are now asking themselves, if they treat the employees this way, how are they going to treat customers?— going to treat customers? again, i'm not his going to treat customers? again, i'm rrot his agent. _ going to treat customers? again, i'm not his agent, but _ going to treat customers? again, i'm not his agent, but i'm _ going to treat customers? again, i'm not his agent, but i'm going - going to treat customers? again, i'm not his agent, but i'm going to - going to treat customers? again, i'm not his agent, but i'm going to tell i not his agent, but i�*m going to tell you what he said. i do not want, do not, do not want to do this. doesn�*t that show some humanity quits back releasing people from employment is tough, we all know that. we have all been through this in some form or another. but by saying it himself and telling people the last time he did it he was, you know, it made him cry, doesn�*t that show some humanity? is better thanjust a line from hr? humanity? is better than 'ust a line from hr? ., ., ., , , from hr? no, unfortunately, he is makin: it from hr? no, unfortunately, he is making it all _ from hr? no, unfortunately, he is making it all about _ from hr? no, unfortunately, he is making it all about him _ from hr? no, unfortunately, he is making it all about him and - from hr? no, unfortunately, he is making it all about him and how i from hr? no, unfortunately, he is| making it all about him and how he feels. actually, i don�*t think that anybody on that call believed that he meant that this was a difficult thing for him to do. he neglected to mention he had just raised a lot in funding. i�*m sure many employees wonder if thejobs funding. i�*m sure many employees wonder if the jobs were secure or if they were next. the great irony is, if you want productivity and business, you treat your employees well because engaged employees will feel trusted. i think the reputational and indeed the engagement damage he�*s done far outweighs the money he has saved. aha, outweighs the money he has saved. a couple of minutes, how would he have done it? so very difficult things to do, especially remotely. i do acknowledge that unfortunately the vast majority of managers have not been trained in how to do this well. what would you say to the people? i what would you say to the people? i would have shown more empathy, more compassion. i would would have shown more empathy, more compassion. iwould have would have shown more empathy, more compassion. i would have arranged to do it in smaller groups, i would have allowed people to ask questions and just treat people with dignity and just treat people with dignity and respect. that is really what we need to happen here. it and respect. that is really what we need to happen here.— need to happen here. it has been exacerbated _ need to happen here. it has been exacerbated by _ need to happen here. it has been exacerbated by previous - need to happen here. it has been exacerbated by previous e-mails| need to happen here. it has been - exacerbated by previous e-mails that exacerbated by previous e—mails that have now surfaced where he has talked to people calling them dumb dolphins, saying you are embarrassingly in letting me down, he is also accused people of being at risk of dismissal because they have effectively stolen from the company by not being as productive as others. we are looking at a brash management style. but a brash management style. but a brash management style. but a brash management style that wouldn�*t be illegal in this country? trio. management style that wouldn't be illegal in this country?— illegal in this country? no, but the other thing. _ illegal in this country? no, but the otherthing. i— illegal in this country? no, but the other thing. i go — illegal in this country? no, but the other thing, i go back _ illegal in this country? no, but the other thing, i go back to _ illegal in this country? no, but the other thing, i go back to the - other thing, i go back to the reputational risk. it is a tight labour market and i think you will have great difficulty attracting talent following this performance. thank you very much indeed. now it�*s time for a look at the weather with matt taylor. hello again. picking later in the north—east of scotland is to head into the evening. notjust that, with cold air in place we will see spells of snows across the pennines. it could cause some disruption. as you step out to show the rest of the country through the day, there is the centre of the storm. showers around that. spells of heavy rain and intense for a time for it clears pitting his wits across the eastern half of england and a spell of dry weather for a time. —— england and a spell of dry weather fora time. —— pushing england and a spell of dry weather for a time. —— pushing eastwards. a court date across northern and eastern parts. through tonight, pushing slowly eastwards and becoming less potent but with a cell seat strong to gale force winds in the north of scotland, down to is the north of scotland, down to is the south—west and potential for a bit of ice in places to start tomorrow. take care. hello, this is bbc news with tim willcox. the headlines... a foreign office whistleblower says the government�*s evacuation operation in afghanistan was dysfunctional and chaotic. the foreign secretary at the time defends the handling of the crisis. the history of and the speed of the taliban takeover is well known, but i think we did a very good job under very difficult conditions. the government admits a series of failings in the years leading up to the grenfell tower disaster, and says it�*s deeply sorry. from today people arriving in the uk must show evidence of a negative covid test taken within 48 hours of starting their journey. after storm arwen, now it�*s storm barra that�*s battering parts of the uk with high winds and heavy rainfall. your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. and — it�*s not great news — the boss of a us firm who fired 900 of his staff in a single zoom call. sport now and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre. let�*s bring you some figures that have come on in the last couple of seconds about the omicron cases. hundred and one new cases have been confirmed in the uk. that brings the total now to 437. more on that news after we have heard from week with a round—up of sport. going to be a late night, you really have to stay up for the first ball of the ashes. the series gets underway in brisbane at midnight. we have known the australian team for a few days. england are keeping their cards close to their chest. england have named a 12 man squad for the first test. the headline is that james anderson isn�*t in it. their record test wicket taker has been left out. england say that he is fit and they expect him to play a big part in the series but they are managing his workload. i think with the build—up everyone has had, the guys just want to make sure everyone is perfect to go. jimmy is not going to play but he is fit. it�*s a very long series and we want a guy like that to be able to play as much a part in it as possible. i think it isjust a bit precautionary. he bowled well yesterday, he will bowl again today. he bowled a few spells in the warm up game. he is fit and the guys are just being a bit precautionary. i think it is a shame that he will not he — i think it is a shame that he will not be out _ i think it is a shame that he will not be out there tomorrow. he is 39 years— not be out there tomorrow. he is 39 years old. _ not be out there tomorrow. he is 39 years old, played one of the leading wicket _ years old, played one of the leading wicket takers ever in test cricket. any time — wicket takers ever in test cricket. any time he — wicket takers ever in test cricket. any time he walks in, it is a team worth— any time he walks in, it is a team worth watching. but in the term of the context of the series, we will concentrate on what we do well. we had four_ concentrate on what we do well. we had four or— concentrate on what we do well. we had four or five really good semi wickets — had four or five really good semi wickets whilst we have been up and cleanse _ wickets whilst we have been up and cleanse land of the last few weeks. we are _ cleanse land of the last few weeks. we are still in a really good place. -- queensland. got enough overs " queensland. got enough overs under— -- queensland. got enough overs under our belt and feel really fresh — under our belt and feel really fresh no— under our belt and feel really fresh. no niggles hitting the first test _ not too many surprises in the 12. ollie pope gets the nod ahead ofjonny bairstow in the middle of the batting order. ben stokes is in the mix, but the all—rounder has played next to no cricket for the past 5 months. jack leach is the spin option. joe root will name his 11 just before the start of play at the gabba. the borussia dortmund and england midfielder jude bellingham has been fined 40,000 euros, around 34 thousand pounds for his comments about the referee following their defeat to bayern munich in the bundesliga over the weekend. the 18—year—old criticised felix zwayer�*s performance and referenced his 6 month ban for a matchfixing scandal in 2005. the german fa found bellingham guilty of unsportsmanlike behaviour for questioning the official�*s impartiality. tottenham are dealing with a coronavirus outbreak at the club. a number of players and coaching staff have been affected. spurs had a full squad available for their win over norwich on sunday but have since returned a number of positive tests. they have a must win game in the europa conference league on thursday against rennes. they will have to fulfil the fixture unless they have fewer than 13 players available or no registered goalkeeper. the match at brighton on sunday could also be affected. scarlets have forefited their opening european champions cup match at bristol bears on saturday because the majority of their squad are still in a quarantine hotel in belfast. and don�*t get out until friday. they were one of the four sides stranded in south africa last week when travel restrictions were tightened meaning they had to isolate for 10 days on their return to the uk. they say they can�*t safely field a matchday squad. bristol have been awarded the match 28—nil. england�*s simon middleton has become the first women�*s team coach to win world rugby�*s coach of the year award. he beat the all blacks�* ian foster and australia�*s dave rennie to the honour. under his leadership, the red roses have gone 18 games unbeaten, and this year they completed a clean—sweep in the autumn nations series, as well as lifting the 6 nations title for the third time in a row. that�*s all the sport for now. i will have another update for you in the next hour. let�*s get more now on the news that the former foreign secretary, dominic raab, has defended the government�*s handling of evacuations after the taliban seized control of afghanistan. a civil servant working in the foreign office at the time has alleged there were a series of failings. this morning mr raab responded to those claims on bbc breakfast. this is from a relatively junior desk officer. with the volume of claims that were coming in, we needed the clear facts to be presented. i think his criticism was that i was making decisions which took several hours, not days or weeks, and it was joint decision—making because some of these cases would have had to be decided by the defence secretary or the home secretary. we were working as a team, i think the whole effort across whitehall and government was making the best effort under incredibly difficult operational conditions and, of course, the situation in london and sifting e—mails, of course it was a challenge, the far bigger challenge we had was gleaning the facts on the ground and getting people safely to the airport so we could get many of those eligible people onto the aircraft and out of afghanistan. i think i spoke to you back in august, i believe, and you said at the time with hindsight you wouldn�*t have taken a holiday at that time. i wonder how you feel now looking back when you read a quote like this. "it is clear that some of those left behind have since been murdered by the taliban." well, the evacuation... look, the evacuation, we took 15,000 people out, we got 17,000 people out if you take the period until april, and we worked after the august evacuation to get others out through working with the qataris to get flights out of kabul. there were several planeloads, including british nationals, that came out through that mechanism. we were working with third countries in uzbekistan, pakistan, to make sure we can continue that evacuation, but fundamentally it was a very difficult set of operational conditions and the history of the speed of the taliban takeover is well known. we did, i think, a very good job under very difficult conditions, but i do understand, we have always recognised, that given the tight window of the evacuation, some people would have been left behind and that is why we continued after the evacuation to work, as i described, to get people out either directly from kabul or by third countries. nearly all children in england have fallen behind in their education — as a result of the covid—19 pandemic — according to england�*s education standards body. in its annual report, ofsted says while the long—term effects of school closures are not yet known — restrictions and repeated lockdowns have meant nearly all children have suffered. amanda spielman is the chief inspector of ofsted and told us more. the great majority of children have lost a lot. my message last year was that we had a renewed understanding of the incredible importance of education in children�*s lives and face—to—face education in schools, colleges and nurseries. this report reinforces that. i want to stress this is all despite the very best efforts and commitment of hundreds of thousands of parents, teachers, social workers, carers, everyone who works in education and care. despite all that effort, and what it translated into four children was just way less than they would normally get and are entitled to expect. as with the tragic case, we spent so much time reading and talking about this weekend, for some children, they are most definitely safer in school than out of school. china has warned the united states will "pay a price" for its decision to stage a diplomatic boycott of the winter olympics over human rights concerns. american athletes will still take part in the games, but the united states won�*t send an official us delegation. china has called the boycott pretentious and a political manipulation. our china correspondent robin brant reports. china has been preparing for years. now it is almost ready for the boarders, the skiers, and the skaters. this us decision has been a long time in the making as well. but when it came, china didn�*t hold back. translation: us politicians keep hyping a diplomatic boycott - without even being invited to the games. this wishful thinking and pure grandstanding is aimed at political manipulation. it is a grave travesty of the spirit of the olympic charter, a blatant political provocation, and a serious affront to the 1.4 billion chinese people. if the us is bent on having its own way, china will take resolute countermeasures. it�*s not clear what those measures will be. it was only a few weeks ago that presidents biden and xijinping were talking face—to—face, almost, but in announcing the decision to keep its officials and dignitaries away, the white house said it came down to one thing — genocide. the athletes on team usa have our full support. we will be behind them 100% as we cheer them on from home. we will not be contributing to the fanfare of the games. us diplomatic or official representation would treat these games as business as usual in the face of the prc�*s egregious human rights abuses and atrocities in xinjiang, and we simply can�*t do that. the biden administration says china is committing genocide against some of its own people — muslim ethnic uighurs in xinjiang in the west. attention will now turn to other like—minded nations, and will they follow suit? in the months leading up to this decision, one senior british government official intimately involved in forming policy towards china told me the uk ran the risk of being seen as a poodle if it simply followed american�*s lead on a boycott. china�*s biggest concern about hosting these games has been covid, but the prospect of like—minded nations rallying around a boycott based on claims of genocide is not part of the story it is trying to tell at these games. robin brant, bbc news. in turkey opposition parties have renewed calls for early elections amid growing economic instability, following historic falls in the value of the turkish lira. the currency has lost 47% of its value against the dollar this year, to become one of the worst performing currencies in the world. annual inflation has reached 21%, according to official figures. some experts have blamed president erdogan, saying his economic policies are reckless. from istanbul, our international correspondent orla guerin reports. runaway inflation and a plunging currency. it�*s been falling so fast it�*s hard to keep track. for turks, the exchange rate makes painful reading. the lira doesn�*t go far these days. many are counting their pennies. this is kasimpasa, the istanbul neighbourhood where president erdogan grew up, traditionally one of his strongholds. yilmaz sees the prices and walks on by. he has to borrow to survive and he is furious with the president. these days, when the president utters a word about the economy, the lira nosedives. he insists that cutting interest rates will curb inflation. most experts believe the opposite. if he gets success by using this new model, i think he will get a nobel prize. this professor of finance says the president�*s policy is a costly mistake. i�*m sure that it will not work, this new model. we will lose days and days, years and years, and i am so sad for the young people in turkey. they are getting more poor and they are losing all their dreams. as losses accumulate, the turkish leader has told his people not to panic. some are still putting their money on him, according to this man, a gold dealer in istanbul�*s grand bazaar for the past 30 years. here is what awaits those who oppose the president. a reception committee of riot police. even for demonstrations as small as this. chanting. the turkish leader is secure for now but he is dropping in the polls as the lira drops, and he is facing elections in 2023 — or sooner if opposition parties get their way. orla guerin, bbc news, istanbul. facebook has recently changed its name to meta, because it says it�*s transforming itself from a social media firm into a company of the metaverse. facebook is actuallyjust the latest tech giant to jump onto this particular bandwagon, but what exactly is the metaverse? our technology correspondent marc chislack has been exploring it. so, what actually is the metaverse? well, if we think of the internet as something that we look at, the metaverse is a version of the internet that we are inside. i�*d say there are examples of the metaverse already, if you look at video games. i think a lot of people see the future metaverse as expanding on that experience to include not just gaming but maybe things like a digital workspace or digital events, digital socialising. the idea is that we will experience the metaverse as an avatar, a virtual version of ourselves that we control as we explore this new online frontier. companies like ready player me and oz already have tools to create avatars for a coming metaverse. creations which, in my case, are a slightly younger and trimmer version of the real thing. andrew bosworth is from meta, the company formerly known as facebook. we talked all matters metaverse using virtual reality headsets, appearing as avatars. ok, so here we are in what might be considered a representation of what the metaverse could be. there�*s a lot of online hatred out there, a lot of online abuse and misinformation and things of that nature. how are you going to avoid those kinds of experiences seeping into the metaverse? do you really want the system, or a person standing by, listening in? but if the conversation is happening in real time, then how can we modify content without listening? and so i think we have a privacy trade—off against... if you want to have a high degree of content safety, well, that trades off against privacy. microsoft�*s adapted its workplace meeting software for the metaverse, and will introduce the ability to appear as an avatar next year, explains developer alex kipman. there�*s quite a few people that have got fatigued by having to have video chat meetings and things of that nature, and that they realise they now crave human contact. human communication is about 5% speech, is about 95% everything else, right? and instead of having a person next to me having a working one—on—one, i can have the avatar version of that person, one—on—one next to me. so it changes completely the... ..you know, call it screen fatigue we are feeling today. the big question, though, is will people embrace this new vision for our online lives? i think it depends on the specific application. we�*ve seen in gaming lots of people really do enjoy those experiences. would you want to sit in a virtual office as an avatar? i�*m less sold on that idea. it seems the metaverse is coming, but its success rests solely in our hands. marc cieslak, bbc news. the former labour cabinet minister and parliament�*s longest serving female mp — harriet harman — has announced she will stand down at the next election. she was first elected in 1982 and served as interim labour party leader on two occasions when gordon brown and ed miliband stepped down. alcohol—related deaths in the uk increased by more than 18 percent last year — the biggest annual rise since records began in 2001. the office for national statistics says there were nearly nine thousand such deaths in 2020 — with the rate for men around double that for women. the lives of many women in afghanistan were transformed overnight when the taliban took control in august. as part of the bbc�*s 100 women season, afghan women have exchanged letters with high profile women who share their interests, to explain how their lives have changed over the last few months. sodaba haidare has more. female leaders from around the world have exchanged letters with women in afghanistan who share their passions for bbc 100 women. high—profile women, including youngest ever nobel peace prize laureate malala yousafzai and footballer megan rapinoe, have shared letters with afghan women to deepen their understanding of how life for women in afghanistan has changed since the taliban took over. "masouma", not her real name, was a public prosecutor in afghanistan. she has written to one of britain�*s most distinguished lawyers, baroness helena kennedy qc, who worked with the international bar association to rescue female judges from the country as the taliban took over. i�*m proud to be a woman public prosecutor who worked in thejudiciary. i always strived to serve my people but now i can�*t return to the job i love and that consumes my thoughts. when the taliban took kabul, i knew a new war was going to be declared on women. i knew that into their sights would come the women who dared to sit injudgment on men, that women who had taken on public women who were refusing to be subordinate to men. colleagues who worked in the judiciary are trying to leave. it feels like every waking moment we are waiting for our death. maybe tomorrow it will be my turn. former supermodel and refugee halima aden has shared letters with afghan university tutor aliya kazimy. aliya has told halima how it feels to no longer be able to express yourself through the clothes she wears. just imagine for a moment that you do not have the right to choose the length or the colour of your outfit, how would you feel? you wouldn�*t feel independent. i love the hijab but i�*m against being forced to wear one. it is unthinkable that anyone should be deprived of colour and sentenced to blackjust because they are a woman. when i think about you and your friends having to hide a once colourful wardrobe, i would say keep the peace for you. keep it in a place where only you know and keep it for the day that you could wear that outfit again. my heart beats for my country, its people and my family. aliya. these afghan women want to ensure their words are heard by the world until they can see a better future for their country ahead. sodaba haidare, bbc news. and you can find out more about the other inspiring and influential women on the bbc 100 women list, and the rest of the season, on the bbc news website. now it�*s time for a look at the weather with matt. hello. a pretty unpleasant second half of the day out there for many of you, quite stormy in places too. storm barra is with us. not only we�*ve got an area of heavy rain sweeping its way northwards and eastwards, but gales now developing quite widely and for time is going to be some snow on the hills across the north. let�*s deal with the winds, first of all, because the strongest remains around these irish sea coasts. but across the rest of the country, particularly across wales, england, southern scotland, we�*ll see widespread gales. and then into the end of the day, those winds will strengthen in the northeast of scotland, too. this is how barra looked on the satellite imagery from earlier. you can see the swirl. it�*s around the hook where we saw the strongest of the winds, particularly across parts of south west ireland, but on the forward edge of it, running into cold air and through the rest of today, the north pennines into the hills of scotland, we could see not only a covering of snow, but a few centimetres for one or two, and that blowing around in strong winds too. the rest of the country, though, for the remainder of today, heavy rain pushing its way eastwards across the eastern half of england. before it clears, there�*ll be a short burst of intense rain, then clearer skies and a mixture of clear spells and showers. it takes in to evening across the west. it remains windy, milder across the south west, cold in the winds to the north and the east. so as you go through tonight, the snow continues to fall across the grampians. rain piling in the north—east of scotland, showers revolving around the centre of our storm throughout the night. it is going to stay windy, particularly across some southern and western areas. and any clear skies between the showers, temperatures could temporarily dip low enough for a touch of frost and ice. so this is the chart for wednesday. storm barra is with us. it�*s very slow moving now. it�*s starting to weaken, but it�*s around the edges where we�*ll see the strongest of the winds. so gales from the north—west of ireland down towards the south west and through the english channel and also across orkney and shetland, in between, winds probably lighter then will finish on tuesday. mixture of sunshine and showers, some longer spells of rain across parts of ireland and into parts of wales, wintry over the hills. and it will be a cold day out there. storm barra continues just to fizzle off in situ across us as we head then through into thursday — it will mean it�*s could be a cold start on thursday, some frost, some patchy fog as well. for most, though, it will be a dry day. some spells of sunshine, best in the east, clouding over into the west later in the day with outbreaks of rain developing. and it will feel a touch milder out there, milder still as you go through towards next week. this is bbc news, i�*m tim willcox. the headlines at three: a foreign office whistle—blower says the government�*s evacuation operation in afghanistan was dysfunctional and chaotic. the foreign secretary at the time defends the handling of the crisis. the history of the speed of the taliban takeover is well known, but i think we did a very good job under very difficult conditions. the government admits a series of failings in the years leading up to the grenfell tower disaster, and says it�*s deeply sorry. new covid test rules from today for arrivals in the uk — as the total number of omicron cases here reaches 437. after storm arwen, now it�*s storm barra that�*s battering parts of the uk with high winds and heavy rainfall. your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. and it�*s not great news — the boss of a us firm who fired 900 of his staff in a single zoom call. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. �*dysfunctional and chaotic�* — that�*s the damning verdict of a foreign office whistle—blower on the way it handled the evacuation of people from afghanistan after the taliban took over in august. raphael marshall — who resigned from hisjob in september — has told mps it�*s clear some of those left behind have since been murdered by the taliban. he says thousands of e—mails pleading for british help went unread, and that the foreign secretary at the time — dominic raab — was slow to make decisions. mr raab has denied the claims. senior foreign office officials — and the former ambassador to afghanistan — are about to give evidence to a committee of mps on this very subject. we�*ll bring you coverage live when it starts. that has been delayed a little. but first here�*s our diplomatic correspondent james landale. this was kabul airport last summer, as thousands sought to flee the advancing taliban. amid chaotic scenes, britain and other western powers tried to evacuate those it could, but according to a whistle—blower, there was chaos in london too. the foreign office crisis centre was handling requests from afghans who were at risk because of their links to the uk. raphael marshall was a young official working there and he says the process of choosing who could be evacuated was arbitrary and dysfunctional. he said up to 150,000 people applied for evacuation under the scheme but he estimated fewer than 5% of these people have received any assistance. it is clear that some of those left behind have since been murdered by the taliban. one weekend in august, when these afghans were trying to get out, mr marshall said in london there were not enough staff, with too few working overtime and on the saturday he was the only person monitoring and processing e—mails in the afghan special cases inbox. thousands of which remained unread. he also says staff lacked expertise in afghanistan and soldiers brought in to help couldn�*t access computers. we already knew that many afghans had struggled to get in contact with the foreign office here. mps had raised many of their cases. what this evidence does is tell us what was going on inside and it�*s a story of a system that just wasn�*t working. i�*m deeply concerned by many of things that the whistle—blower has raised, including about all of those at the very top of the department. the whistle—blower mr marshall was dealing with a very, very difficult situation in which many of us were trying to get out people who had served us with enormous courage and integrity. mr marshall also singled out dominic raab, then foreign secretary, who he said delayed taking decisions until he had all the facts set out in well presented tables. a claim mr raab denies. we are not talking about days, it�*s not being suggested weeks, but several hours to make sure that we had the facts, and actually that is, i would suggest, a reasonably swift turnaround. and in terms of presentation, of course with the volume of claims coming in, i make no apology for saying i needed the clear facts for each case presented precisely, so that we can make swift decisions. a foreign office spokesman said soldiers and diplomats had worked tirelessly to evacuate more than 15,000 people in a fortnight. but some of the senior officials involved will face tough questions from mps this afternoon. james landale, bbc news. one of the man we saw in one of the photographs at the and of that report is sir laurie bristow and we have just heard the committee are starting now and sir laurie bristow will be giving evidence. let�*s see who will be called first. lintiil who will be called first. until recently i — who will be called first. until recently i was _ who will be called first. until recently i was ambassador. who will be called first. until| recently i was ambassador to who will be called first. limit i recently i was ambassador to kabul. good afternoon, i�*m nigel casey, the good afternoon, i'm nigel casey, the director— good afternoon, i'm nigel casey, the director for— good afternoon, i'm nigel casey, the director for afghanistan and pakistan. | director for afghanistan and pakistan. ., . ,, , pakistan. i notice, sir philip, introduced _ pakistan. i notice, sir philip, introduced herself _ pakistan. i notice, sir philip, introduced herself as - pakistan. i notice, sir philip, - introduced herself as permanent secretary of the fca, you didn�*t use the more traditional title of head of the diplomatic service. i am also head of the diplomatic service but my other title is head of the merged department of the foreign & commonwealth office. the national security advisor described the uk�*s evacuation as a qualified success, which did not in any way undershoot our original ambitions. would you agree? our original ambitions. would you auree? , ., ._ our original ambitions. would you auree? , ., , agree? the first thing to say is the uk has been _ agree? the first thing to say is the uk has been involved _ agree? the first thing to say is the uk has been involved in _ agree? the first thing to say is the uk has been involved in a - uk has been involved in a cast particularly for 20 years plus, we owe a _ particularly for 20 years plus, we owe a deep debt to our military who keep the _ owe a deep debt to our military who keep the country safe, and the diplomats and other experts work with them — diplomats and other experts work with them alongside other civilians. no primak— with them alongside other civilians. no primak wanted a presence in afghanistan in the way it did. —— no-one — afghanistan in the way it did. —— no—one wanted. i'm sure you will get onto what— no—one wanted. i'm sure you will get onto what came about and why. we had seen the _ onto what came about and why. we had seen the eventual taliban takeover of afghanistan is the most likely outcome — of afghanistan is the most likely outcome of the nato withdrawal, that was our _ outcome of the nato withdrawal, that was our assessment, but no—one including _ was our assessment, but no—one including the taliban had seen the speed _ including the taliban had seen the speed -- — including the taliban had seen the speed —— foresaw the speed it would happen _ speed —— foresaw the speed it would happen 0ur— speed —— foresaw the speed it would happen. our main aim was to secure a happen. 0ur main aim was to secure a better— happen. our main aim was to secure a better outcome, some sort of negotiated power sharing deal but we also worked on our contingency plans and accelerated those as time passed — and accelerated those as time passed. we are looking at an alternative diplomatic presence, we were also _ alternative diplomatic presence, we were also working on planning for the military evacuation. for us as a department— the military evacuation. for us as a department but also across government, it was a very complex and challenging crisis, one of the most _ and challenging crisis, one of the most challenging we have had to face _ most challenging we have had to face and — most challenging we have had to face. and we did come as you know, successfully — face. and we did come as you know, successfully enable by the military who are _ successfully enable by the military who are in — successfully enable by the military who are in the grip of any security alongside — who are in the grip of any security alongside her home office and bought alongside her home office and bought a fourth _ alongside her home office and bought a fourth college, evacuate more than 15,000 _ a fourth college, evacuate more than 15,000 people. but we wish we could have evacuated more. anyone involved was on _ have evacuated more. anyone involved was on the _ have evacuated more. anyone involved was on the ground, the people working — was on the ground, the people working there, which we had got more out than _ working there, which we had got more out than we _ working there, which we had got more out than we were able to in the time we had _ out than we were able to in the time we had but— out than we were able to in the time we had. but that work carries on now and since _ we had. but that work carries on now and since the — we had. but that work carries on now and since the end of the evacuation period. _ and since the end of the evacuation period. we — and since the end of the evacuation period, we have helped more than 3000 _ period, we have helped more than 3000 people to leave afghanistan have entitlement to come to the uk. one final— have entitlement to come to the uk. one final thing to say, i think you will come — one final thing to say, i think you will come onto this, as with all big crises, _ will come onto this, as with all big crises, there are lessons to be learned — crises, there are lessons to be learned and are happy to go through that with _ learned and are happy to go through that with you on the committee in response — that with you on the committee in response to questions later. but a slightly— response to questions later. but a slightly longer answer to howl would — slightly longer answer to howl would describe my feelings about that _ would describe my feelings about that. ,., would describe my feelings about that. ., ., , ., that. ok, so at what stage did you understand _ that. ok, so at what stage did you understand the _ that. ok, so at what stage did you understand the full _ that. ok, so at what stage did you understand the full extent - that. ok, so at what stage did you understand the full extent of - that. ok, so at what stage did you understand the full extent of the l understand the full extent of the challenge? i understand the full extent of the challen . e? ., understand the full extent of the challenue? ~ ., ., ., challenge? i think all along, we were looking — challenge? i think all along, we were looking at _ challenge? i think all along, we were looking at our _ challenge? i think all along, wej were looking at our assessment challenge? i think all along, we i were looking at our assessment of what _ were looking at our assessment of what was — were looking at our assessment of what was going on at time passed, thinking _ what was going on at time passed, thinking it— what was going on at time passed, thinking it depends what you mean by the full— thinking it depends what you mean by the full extent of the challenge, i think— the full extent of the challenge, i think when we first saw the doha deal hack— think when we first saw the doha deal back in 2020, we recognised that that — deal back in 2020, we recognised that that potentially was problematic, we engaged both with the us— problematic, we engaged both with the us and other nato partners but also as— the us and other nato partners but also as the — the us and other nato partners but also as the uk independently, the last foreign secretary talked about this and _ last foreign secretary talked about this and to give evidence, and try to ensure — this and to give evidence, and try to ensure a — this and to give evidence, and try to ensure a peace process which meant _ to ensure a peace process which meant there was a with —— may withdraw— meant there was a with —— may withdraw the nato military presence which _ withdraw the nato military presence which didn't lead to an item which wasn't _ which didn't lead to an item which wasn't in — which didn't lead to an item which wasn't in our interest. while we did that we _ wasn't in our interest. while we did that we were developing our plans to basicaiiy— that we were developing our plans to basically achieve as much as we could _ basically achieve as much as we could for— basically achieve as much as we could for the uk and our interests, pa rticuia riy — could for the uk and our interests, particularly keeping the uk safe whilst _ particularly keeping the uk safe whilst stepping up our planning. i think— whilst stepping up our planning. i think april— whilst stepping up our planning. i think april was the point at which we knew— think april was the point at which we knew that the us policy was fixed and that _ we knew that the us policy was fixed and that president biden had drafted policy— and that president biden had drafted policy and _ and that president biden had drafted policy and had a date and we were looking _ policy and had a date and we were looking at — policy and had a date and we were looking at how we could maintain our diplomatic— looking at how we could maintain our diplomatic assurance platform. as you move — diplomatic assurance platform. as you move through april into may, and the nato _ you move through april into may, and the nato summit in the g7 summit, that was— the nato summit in the g7 summit, that was the point at which we had assurance — that was the point at which we had assurance that there was the potential... assurance that there was the potential- - -_ assurance that there was the otential... ., ., , potential... the mac to actually allow us to _ potential... the mac to actually allow us to maintain _ potential... the mac to actually allow us to maintain a - potential... the mac to actually l allow us to maintain a diplomatic presence in the record on our planning. how many people did you estimate you would need to evacuate when you go to the point level when he realised it was going to be likely? that he realised it was going to be likel ? . ., likely? at that point we were focused on — likely? at that point we were focused on our _ likely? at that point we were focused on our continuing . likely? at that point we were - focused on our continuing presence. had a _ focused on our continuing presence. had a central assessment... did you not have had a central assessment... did you rrot have an — had a central assessment... did you not have an estimate _ had a central assessment... did you not have an estimate about - had a central assessment... did you not have an estimate about how - had a central assessment... did you i not have an estimate about how many people you might need to evacuate? i will ask nigel to come in on the planning — will ask nigel to come in on the planning process but over the period of aprii— planning process but over the period of april onwards, that's when the decision— of april onwards, that's when the decision was taken on april the 25th. _ decision was taken on april the 25th, about what the procedures might— 25th, about what the procedures might look like. —— april the 21st. inciuding — might look like. —— april the 21st. including with hardening up our plan _ including with hardening up our plan. nigelwill talk about including with hardening up our plan. nigel will talk about the numbers behind the contingency planning — numbers behind the contingency ”lannin. . ., numbers behind the contingency ”lannin. . ~' ,. numbers behind the contingency ”lannin. . ~ ., numbers behind the contingency ”lannin. . ,, ., ., , numbers behind the contingency ”lannin. . .,., , planning. thank you. to answer your ruestion, planning. thank you. to answer your question. we — planning. thank you. to answer your question, we estimated _ planning. thank you. to answer your question, we estimated that - planning. thank you. to answer your question, we estimated that on - planning. thank you. to answer your question, we estimated that on the l question, we estimated that on the basis of the historic data, there were something like 3000 british passport holders still in afghanistan in april, that�*s one of the reasons we at that point changed our travel advice to strengthen it, to encourage everyone to consider leaving. and that there were at least 4000 people eligible for the programme who remained to be put through the programme and taken out, and at that point, the plan, as you know, was to get them through the process come out to the uk and resettled in advance of any potential need for an evacuation. so you are talking about a total of 7000, are you surprised by the figures that were given to us by mr marshall are between 75000 and 150,000 people who applied for refuge in the uk? i 150,000 people who applied for refuge in the uk?— refuge in the uk? i think it's important — refuge in the uk? i think it's important to _ refuge in the uk? i think it's important to distinguish - refuge in the uk? i think it's - important to distinguish between what we — important to distinguish between what we are talking about. there were _ what we are talking about. there were in _ what we are talking about. there were in the — what we are talking about. there were in the end three ways in which people _ were in the end three ways in which people were evacuated. under the scheme _ people were evacuated. under the scheme at — people were evacuated. under the scheme at minister of defence and the home — scheme at minister of defence and the home office, they were british nationals— the home office, they were british nationals and there was a decision to hring _ nationals and there was a decision to bring special cases, there was never— to bring special cases, there was never an— to bring special cases, there was never an application process so i don't _ never an application process so i don't recognise the very large numbers— don't recognise the very large numbers you're talking about, the numbers— numbers you're talking about, the numbers we had in our minds were the scheme— numbers we had in our minds were the scheme for— numbers we had in our minds were the scheme for british nationals and then— scheme for british nationals and then the — scheme for british nationals and then the decision when we realised we had _ then the decision when we realised we had capacity to bring some of the most _ we had capacity to bring some of the most vulnerable over, which we did. when _ most vulnerable over, which we did. when did _ most vulnerable over, which we did. when did you agree on what would be counted as a special case? that decision was — counted as a special case? that decision was taken _ counted as a special case? that decision was taken as _ counted as a special case? that decision was taken as afghanistan was taken — decision was taken as afghanistan was taken over by the taliban, when we had _ was taken over by the taliban, when we had the _ was taken over by the taliban, when we had the plans in place and we knew— we had the plans in place and we knew that — we had the plans in place and we knew that there would be spare capacity— knew that there would be spare capacity beyond that, and we looked at who _ capacity beyond that, and we looked at who else, and ministers took the decision— at who else, and ministers took the decision to — at who else, and ministers took the decision to act, to add to the special— decision to act, to add to the special cases. 50 decision to act, to add to the special cases.— decision to act, to add to the special cases. so in april, there was no intention _ special cases. so in april, there was no intention for— special cases. so in april, there was no intention for example i special cases. so in april, there was no intention for example to offer special assistance to afghan judges who had sat on narcotics trials with british support? there was the arap — trials with british support? there was the arap scheme, _ trials with british support? there was the arap scheme, the - trials with british support? there i was the arap scheme, the scheme under— was the arap scheme, the scheme under which people who helped us could _ under which people who helped us could he _ under which people who helped us could be brought to the uk. narcoticsjudges and the could be brought to the uk. narcotics judges and the special narcotics courts wouldn�*t have counted? narcotics courts wouldn't have counted? �* �* narcotics courts wouldn't have counted? �* ~ ,. , counted? the arap scheme is administered _ counted? the arap scheme is administered by... _ counted? the arap scheme is administered by... i— counted? the arap scheme is administered by... i don't- counted? the arap scheme is | administered by... i don't have counted? the arap scheme is - administered by... i don't have the criteria _ administered by... idon't have the criteria for— administered by... i don't have the criteria for those with stocks of the judges wouldn't have counted as part of— the judges wouldn't have counted as part of the _ the judges wouldn't have counted as part of the scheme? if they were not directly— part of the scheme? if they were not directly employed or be assessed under— directly employed or be assessed under the — directly employed or be assessed underthe scheme... 50 directly employed or be assessed under the scheme. . .— directly employed or be assessed under the scheme... so the members ofthe under the scheme... so the members of the director — under the scheme... so the members of the director for _ under the scheme... so the members of the director for national _ of the director for national security, would they have been eligible under that scheme? members ofthe eligible under that scheme? members of the nds were _ eligible under that scheme? members of the nds were covered _ eligible under that scheme? members of the nds were covered by _ eligible under that scheme? members of the nds were covered by the - of the nds were covered by the scheme — of the nds were covered by the scheme. nigel, do you have any more about— scheme. nigel, do you have any more about the _ scheme. nigel, do you have any more about the criteria for the scheme? yes, _ about the criteria for the scheme? yes. thank— about the criteria for the scheme? yes, thank you. under category four of the arap scheme, there was provision for those who had not been directly employed by us who had worked particularly closely especially enabling roles such as the categories referred to, to be considered under category four of arap. �* , , ., considered under category four of arap. ~ , , ., y ., considered under category four of arap.�* ,, ., ., arap. and despite that you thought ou arap. and despite that you thought you estimated _ arap. and despite that you thought you estimated that _ arap. and despite that you thought you estimated that only _ arap. and despite that you thought you estimated that only 4000 - arap. and despite that you thought l you estimated that only 4000 people were in the scheme? that you estimated that only 4000 people were in the scheme?— were in the scheme? that was the estimate of _ were in the scheme? that was the estimate of the _ were in the scheme? that was the estimate of the number _ were in the scheme? that was the estimate of the number based - were in the scheme? that was the estimate of the number based on | were in the scheme? that was the - estimate of the number based on what we knew about people who had applied at that point. a number of applicants grew significantly as the situation worsened through the course of the summer, so by the time we got the evacuation we had higher numbers and it was an open scheme so people are still applying today. did ou people are still applying today. did you assume that more people would apply as danger loomed closer? well. apply as danger loomed closer? well, we dealt with — apply as danger loomed closer? well, we dealt with those _ apply as danger loomed closer? well, we dealt with those who _ apply as danger loomed closer? -ii we dealt with those who applied at the time, we made assumptions based on the number of people that we thought we could get through and accelerated the programme of planned chartered flights. i should stress that when i say we, this was a programme led by our colleagues in the mystery of defence jointly administered by mod and the home office. 5ir administered by mod and the home office. ,, ., , ., administered by mod and the home office. . . , ., ., office. sir lawrie, you were warned that the taliban _ office. sir lawrie, you were warned that the taliban were _ office. sir lawrie, you were warned that the taliban were unlikely - office. sir lawrie, you were warned that the taliban were unlikely to . that the taliban were unlikely to take afghan cities, what response did you get? if}. take afghan cities, what response did you get?— did you get? 0. i think i would describe the _ did you get? 0. i think i would describe the reporting - did you get? 0. i think i would describe the reporting i - did you get? 0. i think i would describe the reporting i was i did you get? 0. i think i would - describe the reporting i was sending in as a _ describe the reporting i was sending in as a kind — describe the reporting i was sending in as a kind of constant dialogue with london, where i was describing what we _ with london, where i was describing what we were seeing happening and trying _ what we were seeing happening and trying to— what we were seeing happening and trying to interpret what it meant in terms _ trying to interpret what it meant in terms of— trying to interpret what it meant in terms of our core objectives and trying _ terms of our core objectives and trying to— terms of our core objectives and trying to think forward a little bit what _ trying to think forward a little bit what happens next. with recommendations, proposals for what we should _ recommendations, proposals for what we should do as a result. so in terms — we should do as a result. so in terms of— we should do as a result. so in terms of the response from london, i think what— terms of the response from london, i think what we were seeing playing out was _ think what we were seeing playing out was a — think what we were seeing playing out was a scenario that we had envisaged _ out was a scenario that we had envisaged and had planned for, and the response i was getting from london — the response i was getting from london was the response that, we need _ london was the response that, we need to— london was the response that, we need to accelerate our processing, we need _ need to accelerate our processing, we need to— need to accelerate our processing, we need to refine our contingency planning. — we need to refine our contingency planning, we need to work ever more closely— planning, we need to work ever more closely with _ planning, we need to work ever more closely with the mod on what would happen— closely with the mod on what would happen if— closely with the mod on what would happen if the government fell. but the key— happen if the government fell. but the key point here is that at the time _ the key point here is that at the time of— the key point here is that at the time of sending that telegram, it was not — time of sending that telegram, it was not a — time of sending that telegram, it was not a given that the government would _ was not a given that the government would fail— was not a given that the government would fall or that the military would — would fall or that the military would collapse. that happened over the course _ would collapse. that happened over the course of the following week, seven _ the course of the following week, seven days. a scenario, it is no more _ seven days. a scenario, it is no more than _ seven days. a scenario, it is no more than a _ seven days. a scenario, it is no more than a scenario which i think we were _ more than a scenario which i think we were all— more than a scenario which i think we were all working to as one of several. — we were all working to as one of several, was that the government might— several, was that the government might or— several, was that the government might or might not hold a number of regionai— might or might not hold a number of regional capitals but that it might succeed _ regional capitals but that it might succeed in holding kabul and we would _ succeed in holding kabul and we would be — succeed in holding kabul and we would be dealing with a government that was— would be dealing with a government that was in— would be dealing with a government that was in control of the whole country — that was in control of the whole country but one that did not precipitate the sort of collapse and the fleeing on the government that we saw— the fleeing on the government that we saw on — the fleeing on the government that we saw on the 15th. did the fleeing on the government that we saw on the 15th.— the fleeing on the government that we saw on the 15th. did the fco take ste -s to we saw on the 15th. did the fco take steps to speed _ we saw on the 15th. did the fco take steps to speed up — we saw on the 15th. did the fco take steps to speed up the _ we saw on the 15th. did the fco take steps to speed up the evacuation i steps to speed up the evacuation plans at this point? i steps to speed up the evacuation plans at this point?— plans at this point? i arrived in ost in plans at this point? i arrived in post in june — plans at this point? i arrived in post in june having _ plans at this point? i arrived in post in june having spent - plans at this point? i arrived in post in june having spent the l post injune having spent the previous— post injune having spent the previous several months working on the transitional planning back in london — the transitional planning back in london i— the transitional planning back in london. i would say that we were all apprised _ london. i would say that we were all apprised i_ london. i would say that we were all apprised, i was certainly pushing from _ apprised, i was certainly pushing from kabul to try and up the pace as far as _ from kabul to try and up the pace as far as the _ from kabul to try and up the pace as far as the system could manage for bringing _ far as the system could manage for bringing out people eligible under arap. _ bringing out people eligible under arap, certainly it was the case that our planners, the military planners were _ our planners, the military planners were refining at increased intensity what it— were refining at increased intensity what it would look like. by that stage _ what it would look like. by that stage i— what it would look like. by that stage i think so it's worth bearing in mind _ stage i think so it's worth bearing in mind that we did not know, if it came _ in mind that we did not know, if it came to _ in mind that we did not know, if it came to it. — in mind that we did not know, if it came to it, which of the graduated response _ came to it, which of the graduated response options we would be in. if you think— response options we would be in. if you think of— response options we would be in. if you think of how p&g hq do the planning. — you think of how p&g hq do the planning, its a range of options from _ planning, its a range of options from fairly— planning, its a range of options from fairly benign, where you have essentially— from fairly benign, where you have essentially got civil air lines running. _ essentially got civil air lines running, through to what we had, which _ running, through to what we had, which is _ running, through to what we had, which is most definitely not benign. and just _ which is most definitely not benign. and just an— which is most definitely not benign. and just an illustration of that, emirates. _ and just an illustration of that, emirates, the civil airline running into kabul. — emirates, the civil airline running into kabul, was running up until the 15th of— into kabul, was running up until the 15th of august so the last emirates flights— 15th of august so the last emirates flights attempted to land, that turned — flights attempted to land, that turned back, that was the speed at which _ turned back, that was the speed at which events developed.— which events developed. that's clearl a which events developed. that's clearly a change _ which events developed. that's clearly a change of _ which events developed. that's clearly a change of events - which events developed. that's clearly a change of events but i which events developed. that's i clearly a change of events but when you arrived but did you look around and realise the responsibilities that the uk had too many people in the country, realised the numbers and the estimates that nigel�*s team had pulled together were lower than you would have wished? the responsibilities, _ you would have wished? the responsibilities, first of all let me set— responsibilities, first of all let me set out the direction with which i me set out the direction with which i arise _ me set out the direction with which i arise at— me set out the direction with which i arise at this. i think it's important for the committee to understand that as part of the transitional planning, we have reduced — transitional planning, we have reduced the size of the embassy, we had reduced it from a ceiling of 115 staff to _ had reduced it from a ceiling of 115 staff to one of 75, precisely so we were _ staff to one of 75, precisely so we were able — staff to one of 75, precisely so we were able to manage the risk to staff— were able to manage the risk to staff and — were able to manage the risk to staff and the risk to evacuating the staff _ staff and the risk to evacuating the staff so _ staff and the risk to evacuating the staff. so what that meant in terms of prioritisation was first of all the focus _ of prioritisation was first of all the focus on supporting the government, without which we could achieve _ government, without which we could achieve little to nothing. second, the all—important national security task. _ the all—important national security task, particularly counterterrorism, and thirdly— task, particularly counterterrorism, and thirdly getting through the casework on arap and the working plan was _ casework on arap and the working plan was to have completed the caseload — plan was to have completed the caseload on arap by the end of august. — caseload on arap by the end of august. fourth was to get to get the pen poised — august. fourth was to get to get the pen poised. in terms of numbers, this was— pen poised. in terms of numbers, this was always, i think, and i hesitate — this was always, i think, and i hesitate to _ this was always, i think, and i hesitate to describe it in these terms — hesitate to describe it in these terms but a known unknown, we did not know _ terms but a known unknown, we did not know how many people would come forward _ not know how many people would come forward on _ not know how many people would come forward on the day for evacuation, if that's— forward on the day for evacuation, if that's what it came to because we did not— if that's what it came to because we did not know how mitty schmidt how many _ did not know how mitty schmidt how many british passport holders were in afghanistan on any one day for the we _ in afghanistan on any one day for the we had — in afghanistan on any one day for the we had no way of knowing. what we did _ the we had no way of knowing. what we did know was that if we were at the higher— we did know was that if we were at the higher end of the scenarios outlined. — the higher end of the scenarios outlined, there would be a rush on the airport— outlined, there would be a rush on the airport and that would be compounded for us by what was happening with the americans and with our— happening with the americans and with our other nato and other partners. _ with our other nato and other partners. to with our other nato and other artners. ., ., , ,, , partners. to did not seem likely that the surge _ partners. to did not seem likely that the surge may _ partners. to did not seem likely that the surge may resemble i partners. to did not seem likely i that the surge may resemble other such moments, where powers collapse and therefore we were seeing not just those who were directly employed in this regard but also those to whom, or those who felt that we owed them a duty of care, including people who may have been relatively remotely connected, therefore the numbers were almost bound to be significantly greater than the numbers you thought? i think that honesty was top of everybody's mind during the planning but i repeat, it was one of a number of scenarios. — but i repeat, it was one of a number of scenarios. the one that we had as it turned _ of scenarios. the one that we had as it turned out— of scenarios. the one that we had as it turned out was the one that followed _ it turned out was the one that followed from the cascading collapse of the _ followed from the cascading collapse of the military and the government. some evidence was submitted and it was commented that we appeared not to have thought through our response abilities to those who worked with this in adopting and promoting the values that are now at risk, would you agree? i values that are now at risk, would you agree?— values that are now at risk, would you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. _ you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. i _ you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. i think— you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. i think we - you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. i think we had i you agree? i would not agree with that sentiment. i think we had a i that sentiment. i think we had a pretty— that sentiment. i think we had a pretty good idea, i think, that sentiment. i think we had a pretty good idea, ithink, of that sentiment. i think we had a pretty good idea, i think, of how the collapse of the state and had to return _ the collapse of the state and had to return to _ the collapse of the state and had to return to power of the taliban might impact _ return to power of the taliban might impact on _ return to power of the taliban might impact on people who had worked with us. impact on people who had worked with us you _ impact on people who had worked with us. you mentioned earlier women judges. _ us. you mentioned earlier women judges. i— us. you mentioned earlier women judges. i would extend that pretty much _ judges. i would extend that pretty much to— judges. i would extend that pretty much to almost any woman who aspired to work— much to almost any woman who aspired to work outside the home or to be educated. — to work outside the home or to be educated, or lgbt people, people who worked _ educated, or lgbt people, people who worked with us and alongside us, not necessarily— worked with us and alongside us, not necessarily for us. but again, what a comeback— necessarily for us. but again, what a comeback to is that it was not a given— a comeback to is that it was not a given that — a comeback to is that it was not a given that the end would come in the way it— given that the end would come in the way it came — given that the end would come in the way it came at the time it came. i think way it came at the time it came. think we can way it came at the time it came. i think we can agree that the speed of the final collapse was possibly quicker than anybody thought. but surely after then it was a matter of weeks, not months and it was a matter of, the end was pretty clear that it was unlikely that the administration was going to survive and therefore that the government would survive?— and therefore that the government would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe _ would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe it _ would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe it in _ would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe it in the _ would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe it in the last - would survive? again, chair, the way i would describe it in the last week. i would describe it in the last week to ten— i would describe it in the last week to ten days — i would describe it in the last week to ten days was a cascading collapse _ to ten days was a cascading collapse. at the beginning of the fall, collapse. at the beginning of the fall. don't— collapse. at the beginning of the fall, don't think i would necessarily extrapolate from that to the fall— necessarily extrapolate from that to the fall of— necessarily extrapolate from that to the fall of cabo and the fall of the government. i should just add that there _ government. i should just add that there were — government. i should just add that there were efforts going on in the final day— there were efforts going on in the final day or— there were efforts going on in the final day or so to manage a softer ianding. _ final day or so to manage a softer landing, negotiations between some of the _ landing, negotiations between some of the leaders of the republic and some _ of the leaders of the republic and some of— of the leaders of the republic and some of the taliban, for the taliban to hold _ some of the taliban, for the taliban to hold short from the city. i'm sure _ to hold short from the city. i'm sure you — to hold short from the city. i'm sure you have been briefed on other witnesses _ sure you have been briefed on other witnesses and i think it's in the public— witnesses and i think it's in the public domain, but on the day that is not _ public domain, but on the day that is not how— public domain, but on the day that is not how it — public domain, but on the day that is not how it worked out. may public domain, but on the day that is not how it worked out.— public domain, but on the day that is not how it worked out. may i ask them during _ is not how it worked out. may i ask them during the _ is not how it worked out. may i ask them during the brief— is not how it worked out. may i ask them during the brief months - is not how it worked out. may i ask them during the brief months you | them during the brief months you were in post as ambassador in kabul, what contact did you have with the foreign secretary? the what contact did you have with the foreign secretary?— foreign secretary? the foreign secretary- -- — foreign secretary? the foreign secretary... through _ foreign secretary? the foreign secretary... through the - secretary... through the department... secretary. .. through the department. . .— secretary... through the de artment. .. ., ., . department... no, what direct contact? so — department... no, what direct contact? so i'm _ department... no, what direct contact? so i'm looking - department... no, what direct contact? so i'm looking at... l department... no, what direct i contact? so i'm looking at... my dia is contact? so i'm looking at... my diary is imperfect, _ contact? so i'm looking at... my diary is imperfect, i'm _ contact? so i'm looking at... my diary is imperfect, i'm afraid, i contact? so i'm looking at... my diary is imperfect, i'm afraid, it| diary is imperfect, i'm afraid, it was— diary is imperfect, i'm afraid, it was rather— diary is imperfect, i'm afraid, it was rather a messy situation. i had contact _ was rather a messy situation. i had contact with — was rather a messy situation. i had contact with the foreign secretary directly _ contact with the foreign secretary directly a — contact with the foreign secretary directlya number of contact with the foreign secretary directly a number of times during august. _ directly a number of times during august, during the crisis. in the period _ august, during the crisis. in the period when i was working on transition _ period when i was working on transition planning, several times a week. _ transition planning, several times a week, alongside nigel, as we worked through— week, alongside nigel, as we worked through with him, how we proposed to stand up— through with him, how we proposed to stand up the _ through with him, how we proposed to stand up the embassy after the military— stand up the embassy after the military had left. by the time i arrived — military had left. by the time i arrived in _ military had left. by the time i arrived in kabul, things had moved a little bit _ arrived in kabul, things had moved a little bit on. — arrived in kabul, things had moved a little bit on-— little bit on. what context do you have with your — little bit on. what context do you have with your neighbouring i little bit on. what context do you l have with your neighbouring posts and possibly neighbouring states? what contact did you have with for example the high commissioner in islamabad or ambassadors in tajikistan or uzbekistan? i had several conversations, - tajikistan or uzbekistan? i had several conversations, kept i tajikistan or uzbekistan? i had several conversations, kept in | tajikistan or uzbekistan? i had several conversations, kept in touch fairly— several conversations, kept in touch fairly regularly with islamabad, it was a _ fairly regularly with islamabad, it was a key— fairly regularly with islamabad, it was a key part of the jigsaw puzzle. particularly— was a key part of the jigsaw puzzle. particularly because of the work that we — particularly because of the work that we were pursuing with the pakistani — that we were pursuing with the pakistani state and the pakistani military— pakistani state and the pakistani military on trying to find a way into essentially a military stalemate in some sort of negotiated settlement. did you have any contact at all lauded anybody from any direct— at all lauded anybody from any direct employees of her majesty's government have any contact with the taiiban— government have any contact with the taliban before they took over the administration of the country? i defer— administration of the country? i defer to— administration of the country? i defer to nigel on that if i may. i did not. — defer to nigel on that if i may. i did not. i— defer to nigel on that if i may. i did not, iwas defer to nigel on that if i may. i did not, i was accredited to the government of the islamic republic of afghanistan, which is an important point in this respect. nigel? — important point in this respect. niel? . . . important point in this respect. niel? . , , , , ., nigel? the answer is yes, i had contact in _ nigel? the answer is yes, i had contact in the _ nigel? the answer is yes, i had contact in the company - nigel? the answer is yes, i had contact in the company of i nigel? the answer is yes, i hadj contact in the company of other nigel? the answer is yes, i had i contact in the company of other us and european special representatives in my first week in the job and european special representatives in my first week in thejob in and european special representatives in my first week in the job in may. we had long had contacts with the taliban, we did not declare those publicly as a matter of policy and we kept them at the level of me as special representative dish—mac representative or lower. find special representative dish-mac representative or lower. and did any of those conversations _ representative or lower. and did any of those conversations include i of those conversations include conversations about assistance with evacuation or support to civilians after, orshould evacuation or support to civilians after, or should they take power? well, when i began thisjob, the conversations were all about living up conversations were all about living up to the commitments made in the doha agreement, to negotiate a power—sharing agreement. we were given... the wider consequences would be almost certain to force the withdrawal of foreign embassies. ok. withdrawal of foreign embassies. ok, now, ma i withdrawal of foreign embassies. ok, now. may i come _ withdrawal of foreign embassies. ok, now, may i come back to the period of august, when things started to go awry? when did you realise it was all over, sir laurie? i awry? when did you realise it was all over, sir laurie?— all over, sir laurie? i was tracking with particularly _ all over, sir laurie? i was tracking with particularly our— all over, sir laurie? i was tracking with particularly our military i with particularly our military colleagues where we thought this was lloii'i colleagues where we thought this was going to _ colleagues where we thought this was going to go, and from that perspective, the things that i was most _ perspective, the things that i was most focused on, the things that would _ most focused on, the things that would actually put the republic's ability _ would actually put the republic's ability to — would actually put the republic's ability to survive and to continue to hold _ ability to survive and to continue to hold kabul at serious risk. i think— to hold kabul at serious risk. i think the _ to hold kabul at serious risk. i think the key moments there were probably— think the key moments there were probably the fall of kandahar, and earlier— probably the fall of kandahar, and earlier than that the taliban had made _ earlier than that the taliban had made extensive gains across the country. — made extensive gains across the country, they controlled border crossings. _ country, they controlled border crossings, the controlled main roads around _ crossings, the controlled main roads around the _ crossings, the controlled main roads around the country which put an economic— around the country which put an economic stranglehold on the country. — economic stranglehold on the country. i_ economic stranglehold on the country. i think the absolutely key moments — country. i think the absolutely key moments in the final couple of days were when— moments in the final couple of days were when it became clear that the military— were when it became clear that the military were no longer viable, but that around — military were no longer viable, but that around the 13th or 14th of august. — that around the 13th or 14th of august, and nigel may want to comment— august, and nigel may want to comment on this but that was the point _ comment on this but that was the point at _ comment on this but that was the point at which our military and the us general— point at which our military and the us general who was running the diplomatic assurance platform said, look. _ diplomatic assurance platform said, iook. this— diplomatic assurance platform said, look. this is— diplomatic assurance platform said, look, this is falling apart now. and of course. — look, this is falling apart now. and of course, president ghani's disappearance from the scene on the 15th. disappearance from the scene on the 15th |_ disappearance from the scene on the 15th. 4' ., , ., , 15th. i think there was the last moment. _ 15th. i think there was the last moment. so — 15th. i think there was the last moment, so you _ 15th. i think there was the last moment, so you were - 15th. i think there was the last moment, so you were alerting 15th. i think there was the last i moment, so you were alerting london pretty clearly by the 13th or 14th that it was over?— pretty clearly by the 13th or 14th that it was over? that was what was happening. — that it was over? that was what was happening. until— that it was over? that was what was happening, until president - that it was over? that was what was happening, until president ghani i happening, until president ghani actually— happening, until president ghani actually fled the city, i don't actually fled the city, idon't think— actually fled the city, i don't think anybody could say it was over because _ think anybody could say it was over because there was still an option of trying _ because there was still an option of trying to— because there was still an option of trying to manage some sort of, i would _ trying to manage some sort of, i would describe it as a negotiated surrender— would describe it as a negotiated surrender to the taliban why stop at effectively _ surrender to the taliban why stop at effectively the afghan government had not _ effectively the afghan government had not only lost control by then but had — had not only lost control by then but had no — had not only lost control by then but had no prospect of regaining any form of— but had no prospect of regaining any form of control? i think that is probably— form of control? i think that is probably correct. find form of control? i think that is probably correct.— form of control? i think that is probably correct. and that is what ou were probably correct. and that is what you were reporting _ probably correct. and that is what you were reporting to _ probably correct. and that is what you were reporting to london. i probably correct. and that is what | you were reporting to london. and probably correct. and that is what i you were reporting to london. and at that point, you were reporting that presumably through the normal network, where you also sending personal messages direct to key personnel, to make sure they were fully aware of the danger the uk mission was facing?— fully aware of the danger the uk mission was facing? again, i will brin: mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel _ mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel unify _ mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel unify me _ mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel unify me on - mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel unify me on this i mission was facing? again, i will bring nigel unify me on this but| mission was facing? again, i willj bring nigel unify me on this but i don't _ bring nigel unify me on this but i don't think— bring nigel unify me on this but i don't think there was any serious doubt _ don't think there was any serious doubt that— don't think there was any serious doubt that that was the situation, but what — doubt that that was the situation, but what it precipitated was decisions around the future of the mission — decisions around the future of the mission. decisions around the future of the mission-- if _ decisions around the future of the mission-- if i _ decisions around the future of the mission.- if i may, i decisions around the future of the mission.- ifi may, so, i decisions around the future of the mission.- ifi may, so, on| mission. indeed. ifi may, so, on the basis — mission. indeed. ifi may, so, on the basis of _ mission. indeed. ifi may, so, on the basis of the _ mission. indeed. ifi may, so, on the basis of the reporting i mission. indeed. ifi may, so, on the basis of the reporting that i mission. indeed. ifi may, so, onj the basis of the reporting that sir laurie and the senior us and uk representatives sending back, not just to me but the almost daily meetings chaired by the deputy national security advisor, i put a recommendation to the foreign secretary on the 11th of august that we needed to significantly downsize and move our embassy from the green zonein and move our embassy from the green zone in the city to the airport, that�*s the recommendation that he immediately accepted and we began acting on on the 12th. you would say that by the 11th of august, it was clear the british embassy in central kabul was no longer a viable option in the sensible thing to do was move the embassy. sensible thing to do was move the embass . ., ., ., ,, embassy. the 'udgment i had to make and ut embassy. the judgment i had to make and put advice — embassy. the judgment i had to make and put advice to _ embassy. the judgment i had to make and put advice to every _ embassy. the judgment i had to make and put advice to every week - embassy. the judgment i had to make and put advice to every week since i and put advice to every week since june, is whether we could fulfil a duty of care. could we keep our staff safe and could they do their jobs. by the 11th of august i concluded that was no longer possible operating from inside the green zone and we needed to relocate. , _ green zone and we needed to relocate-— green zone and we needed to relocate. , _ _ green zone and we needed to relocate. _ , relocate. the embassy was by this oint at relocate. the embassy was by this point at 75 — relocate. the embassy was by this point at 75 strong, _ relocate. the embassy was by this point at 75 strong, is _ relocate. the embassy was by this point at 75 strong, is that - relocate. the embassy was by this point at 75 strong, is that correct? yes. ~ ., ., ., ,, ., ., yes. would that make it one of the laraer or yes. would that make it one of the larger or smaller _ yes. would that make it one of the larger or smaller british _ yes. would that make it one of the larger or smaller british missions l larger or smaller british missions around the world? it larger or smaller british missions around the world?— larger or smaller british missions around the world? it would have been around the world? it would have been a medium to — around the world? it would have been a medium to large. _ around the world? it would have been a medium to large. quite _ around the world? it would have been a medium to large. quite a _ a medium to large. quite a considerable number. obviously it had been — considerable number. obviously it had been much larger, we had already taken _ had been much larger, we had already taken a _ had been much larger, we had already taken a decision earlier on, given the increasing risk in kabul to bring — the increasing risk in kabul to bring the _ the increasing risk in kabul to bring the numbers down and prioritise _ bring the numbers down and prioritise the work around the highest — prioritise the work around the highest priority national security work. _ highest priority national security work. and — highest priority national security work, and to bring people to the uk. citing _ work, and to bring people to the uk. citing that— work, and to bring people to the uk. citing that programme, those were the two _ citing that programme, those were the two main focuses that laurie and the two main focuses that laurie and the team _ the two main focuses that laurie and the team had. we then came down from 75 to 20 _ the team had. we then came down from 75 to 20 as _ the team had. we then came down from 75 to 20 as we _ the team had. we then came down from 75 to 20 as we chose to move to the airport. _ 75 to 20 as we chose to move to the airort. .. , 75 to 20 as we chose to move to the airort. ._ ., 75 to 20 as we chose to move to the airort. ,, ., ., airport. even say that even on the 11th of august. — airport. even say that even on the 11th of august, it _ airport. even say that even on the 11th of august, it was _ airport. even say that even on the 11th of august, it was still- airport. even say that even on the 11th of august, it was still a i 11th of august, it was still a significant mission and presumably for you on the 11th of august, the prime focus of your duty of care and responsibility the world. that prime focus of your duty of care and responsibility the world.— responsibility the world. that was robabl responsibility the world. that was probably the _ responsibility the world. that was probably the riskiest _ responsibility the world. that was probably the riskiest place i responsibility the world. that was probably the riskiest place we i responsibility the world. that was | probably the riskiest place we had that sort— probably the riskiest place we had that sort of sides of people and in other— that sort of sides of people and in other parts— that sort of sides of people and in other parts of the world, somalia, libya. _ other parts of the world, somalia, libya. other— other parts of the world, somalia, libya, other places where colleagues are working in dangerous and difficult — are working in dangerous and difficult circumstances. yes, kabul was the _ difficult circumstances. yes, kabul was the top of the list.— was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was _ was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was the _ was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was the top _ was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was the top of _ was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was the top of the i was the top of the list. yes, so kabul was the top of the list i was the top of the list. yes, so | kabul was the top of the list on was the top of the list. yes, so i kabul was the top of the list on the 11th of august, the embassy was moving. on the 13th it was clear the military can no longer hold and on the 15th day present the fact that the 15th day present the fact that the company. that would be a correct summary of those days? —— the president fled the country. when did you return from holiday? i am president fled the country. when did you return from holiday?— you return from holiday? i am happy to no to you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date. _ you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date, but _ you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date, but before _ you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date, but before i _ you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date, but before i do i you return from holiday? i am happy to go to date, but before i do that, i to go to date, but before i do that, i to go to date, but before i do that, i have _ to go to date, but before i do that, i have reflected a lot since august on my— i have reflected a lot since august on my leave and if i had my time again— on my leave and if i had my time again i_ on my leave and if i had my time again i would have come back from my leave earlier— again i would have come back from my leave earlier than i did. i did put in place — leave earlier than i did. i did put in place arrangements, enacting permanent undersecretary, and a director— permanent undersecretary, and a director general and i stayed in touch— director general and i stayed in touch with the department of waste through— touch with the department of waste through the period through all this. but if— through the period through all this. but if i _ through the period through all this. but if i had — through the period through all this. but if i had my time again, i would have _ but if i had my time again, i would have come — but if i had my time again, i would have come back from leave early. look. _ have come back from leave early. look. i_ have come back from leave early. look. ithink— have come back from leave early. look, i think we welcome the candour with which to express that. it does still remain a concern that the foreign secretary was on leave and we all remember the session he had before this committee in september. it does strike this committee certainly as strange that while the foreign secretary did come back eventually, you decided not to. $5 i eventually, you decided not to. as i sa , i eventually, you decided not to. as i say. i have — eventually, you decided not to. as i say, i have reflected on that in a buy had — say, i have reflected on that in a buy had my— say, i have reflected on that in a buy had my time again, i would have come _ buy had my time again, i would have come back— buy had my time again, i would have come back from my leave early. what did ou come back from my leave early. what did you actually _ come back from my leave early. what did you actually come _ come back from my leave early. wist did you actually come back? come back from my leave early. what did you actually come back? i - come back from my leave early. what did you actually come back? i came i did you actually come back? i came back on the — did you actually come back? i came back on the 26th _ did you actually come back? i came back on the 26th of _ did you actually come back? i came back on the 26th of august. i did you actually come back? i came back on the 26th of august. and . back on the 26th of august. and where were _ back on the 26th of august. 35qu where were you? back on the 26th of august. and where were you? i _ back on the 26th of august. and where were you? i don't - back on the 26th of august. and where were you? i don't really l back on the 26th of august. and - where were you? i don't really want to no where were you? i don't really want to go intom — where were you? i don't really want to go into... where _ where were you? i don't really want to go into... where you _ where were you? i don't really want to go into... where you in - where were you? i don't really want to go into... where you in the - to go into... where you in the united kingdom? _ to go into. .. where you in the united kingdom? i— to go into. .. where you in the united kingdom? i was- to go into... where you in the united kingdom? i was partly| to go into... where you in the l united kingdom? i was partly in to go into... where you in the - united kingdom? i was partly in the united kingdom? i was partly in the united kingdom, _ united kingdom? i was partly in the united kingdom, partly— united kingdom? i was partly in the united kingdom, partly not. - united kingdom? i was partly in the united kingdom, partly not. ok. . united kingdom? i was partly in the i united kingdom, partly not. ok. have ou ever united kingdom, partly not. ok. have you ever changed _ united kingdom, partly not. ok. have you ever changed your _ united kingdom, partly not. ok. have you ever changed your holiday - united kingdom, partly not. ok. have you ever changed your holiday plans l you ever changed your holiday plans in a crisis before? i you ever changed your holiday plans in a crisis before?— in a crisis before? i have, yes. would you _ in a crisis before? i have, yes. would you consider— in a crisis before? i have, yes. would you consider it - in a crisis before? i have, yes. would you consider it normal. in a crisis before? i have, yes. l would you consider it normal for staff to do so? i would you consider it normal for staff to do so?— would you consider it normal for staff to do so? i have reflected on this, staff to do so? i have reflected on this. there — staff to do so? i have reflected on this. there is _ staff to do so? i have reflected on this, there is a _ staff to do so? i have reflected on this, there is a lesson _ staff to do so? i have reflected on this, there is a lesson for- staff to do so? i have reflected on this, there is a lesson for me - staff to do so? i have reflected on this, there is a lesson for me in i this, there is a lesson for me in all of— this, there is a lesson for me in all of this— this, there is a lesson for me in all of this which i accept and if i had my— all of this which i accept and if i had my time again, i would have come back earlier~ _ had my time again, i would have come back earlier. may had my time again, i would have come back earlier-— back earlier. may i ask, going back to the first — back earlier. may i ask, going back to the first question _ back earlier. may i ask, going back to the first question i _ back earlier. may i ask, going back to the first question i asked - back earlier. may i ask, going back to the first question i asked you, i to the first question i asked you, do you consider yourself a crown servant or a civil servant? i am both. formerly _ servant or a civil servant? i am both. formerly a _ servant or a civil servant? i am both. formerly a civil - servant or a civil servant? i am both. formerly a civil servant. | servant or a civil servant? i am both. formerly a civil servant. and crown_ both. formerly a civil servant. and crown service is a wider term for civil_ crown service is a wider term for civil servant _ crown service is a wider term for civil servant —— formally. gk. crown service is a wider term for civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to _ civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to come _ civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to come in _ civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to come in quickly. - civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to come in quickly. i - civil servant -- formally. 0k. he wanted to come in quickly. i am | wanted to come in quickly. i am sor , i wanted to come in quickly. i am sorry. i don't— wanted to come in quickly. i am sorry, i don't think _ wanted to come in quickly. i am sorry, i don't think it _ wanted to come in quickly. i —n sorry, i don't think it is enough to say me a copper. how in two weeks at no point did you go, i can't, i have to go and protect my people. it would take me to the question of, how would you define duty of care? you said just now usually paid particular focus to duty of care, is that just staff at post? what about the staff that the crisis centre? i am at risk of repeating myself. i have _ am at risk of repeating myself. i have reflected on this and i would have _ have reflected on this and i would have come — have reflected on this and i would have come back, but i put in place senior_ have come back, but i put in place senior cover, _ have come back, but i put in place senior cover, but then acting premier— senior cover, but then acting premier secretary and a director—general he was going to be the. director—general he was going to be the i_ director—general he was going to be the i made — director—general he was going to be the. i made sure we had the systems in place _ the. i made sure we had the systems in place going back months and nigel has already inferred i was very closely — has already inferred i was very closely involved as the situation of our colleagues in kabul became more dangerous _ our colleagues in kabul became more dangerous. there was weekly reporting, and then he brought it down _ reporting, and then he brought it down to— reporting, and then he brought it down to more frequent reporting. as the situation became more acute. gn the situation became more acute. on that, i struggle. the situation became more acute. on that, istruggle. i the situation became more acute. on that, i struggle. i should disclose i've worked the crisis centre as a member of staff. this was a catastrophe. all the other things going on, this was a catastrophe of incomparable nature. that mr marshall set out in his evidence, issues around no staff beans conscripted properly in the crisis centre, no linguists, computers or access for visitors, no night system. do you think those you put in place to take your role in your absence failed at their duties? let me come onto that. you have mentioned mr marshall and we saw the witness _ mentioned mr marshall and we saw the witness statement he has given. take the issues _ witness statement he has given. take the issues very seriously indeed. he e-maiied _ the issues very seriously indeed. he e—mailed me on the 31st of august. he had _ e—mailed me on the 31st of august. he had spent four days as a member of the _ he had spent four days as a member of the crisis — he had spent four days as a member of the crisis team and he said in that— of the crisis team and he said in that e-nraii_ of the crisis team and he said in that e—mail that he was going to share _ that e—mail that he was going to share information with this committee, which i think he had already— committee, which i think he had already done at that point, and also said that _ already done at that point, and also said that the civil service code had been _ said that the civil service code had been breached. i asked to see him and did _ been breached. i asked to see him and did see — been breached. i asked to see him and did see him later that day, given— and did see him later that day, given the — and did see him later that day, given the serious nature of what he had said _ given the serious nature of what he had said i— given the serious nature of what he had said. i set out for him his options — had said. i set out for him his options in _ had said. i set out for him his options in raising concerns, and that— options in raising concerns, and that we — options in raising concerns, and that we cooperate with this committee in any enquiry. we would cooperate _ committee in any enquiry. we would cooperate with the enquiry and carry out a _ cooperate with the enquiry and carry out a learning exercise. we stayed in touch _ out a learning exercise. we stayed in touch with him and i decided that we should, — in touch with him and i decided that we should, given his general concerns, _ we should, given his general concerns, treating as a whistle—blower under the formal whistle— blower under the formal whistle—blowing whistle—blower under the formal whistle—blowing procedures. i used those _ whistle—blowing procedures. i used those to— whistle—blowing procedures. i used those to appoint a senior former head _ those to appoint a senior former head of— those to appoint a senior former head of mission to look into his concerns, — head of mission to look into his concerns, to talk to him but also those _ concerns, to talk to him but also those involved in the crisis response, and she did that and she found _ response, and she did that and she found no— response, and she did that and she found no evidence that the civil service — found no evidence that the civil service code had been breached. and she acknowledged that staff are working — she acknowledged that staff are working under huge pressure to deliver— working under huge pressure to deliver the right outcomes. she also n1ade~~_ deliver the right outcomes. she also made... ., deliver the right outcomes. she also made... . ., ~ , deliver the right outcomes. she also made... . , deliver the right outcomes. she also made... . m , ., deliver the right outcomes. she also made... . , ., , made... that takes me back to my oriiinal made... that takes me back to my original question _ made... that takes me back to my original question which _ made... that takes me back to my original question which is - made... that takes me back to my original question which is that - original question which is that there was who in your absence had to step up fail? ila. there was who in your absence had to step up fail?— step up fail? no, i don't think they did fail. it was _ step up fail? no, i don't think they did fail. it was an _ step up fail? no, i don't think they did fail. it was an extremely - did fail. it was an extremely complex— did fail. it was an extremely complex and difficult crisis. we did enable. _ complex and difficult crisis. we did enable. hy— complex and difficult crisis. we did enable, by the military on the ground, — enable, by the military on the ground, very briefly making sure it was secure — ground, very briefly making sure it was secure enough in kabul, led in difficult _ was secure enough in kabul, led in difficult circumstances by sir laurie. — difficult circumstances by sir laurie, managed to conduct 15,000 people _ laurie, managed to conduct 15,000 people i_ laurie, managed to conduct 15,000 people. i acknowledge there are think— people. i acknowledge there are think you — people. i acknowledge there are think you could have done better and we could _ think you could have done better and we could have got more people out and i_ we could have got more people out and i am _ we could have got more people out and i am sure there are— and i am sure there are lessons. i am iioin issues later. did you visit the crisis centre at any point? i issues later. did you visit the crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been _ crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been on _ crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been on regular— crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been on regular visits - crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been on regular visits and l crisis centre at any point? i did. i have been on regular visits and i | have been on regular visits and i have _ have been on regular visits and i have kept— have been on regular visits and i have kept in touch with those leaving — have kept in touch with those leaving the crisis. we have kept in touch with those leaving the crisis.— have kept in touch with those leaving the crisis. we send us the dates of those _ leaving the crisis. we send us the dates of those visits _ leaving the crisis. we send us the dates of those visits because - leaving the crisis. we send us the dates of those visits because i - leaving the crisis. we send us the j dates of those visits because i am not aware of any visits that have been recorded. and mr casey, can i ask how often you visited the crisis centre? i ask how often you visited the crisis centre? . , , ., , ., , centre? i was there every day. i was sittin: in centre? i was there every day. i was sitting in the — centre? i was there every day. i was sitting in the crisis _ centre? i was there every day. i was sitting in the crisis centre _ sitting in the crisis centre throughout _ sitting in the crisis centre throughout.— sitting in the crisis centre throuahout. . , , ~ throughout. that is interesting, mr marshall had _ throughout. that is interesting, mr marshall had to _ throughout. that is interesting, mr marshall had to point _ throughout. that is interesting, mr marshall had to point out - throughout. that is interesting, mr marshall had to point out he - throughout. that is interesting, mrl marshall had to point out he doesn't know what you look like which is surprising if you were equipping the crisis centre. it is very small, i have spent many hours in it. let me talk about how _ have spent many hours in it. let me talk about how our _ have spent many hours in it. let me talk about how our crisis _ have spent many hours in it. let me talk about how our crisis system - talk about how our crisis system works _ talk about how our crisis system works. what you cannot do... we ended _ works. what you cannot do... we ended up— works. what you cannot do... we ended up with 500 people plus working — ended up with 500 people plus working in a 24—hour period. you cannot— working in a 24—hour period. you cannot rely— working in a 24—hour period. you cannot rely on a single individual to be _ cannot rely on a single individual to be the — cannot rely on a single individual to be the gold crisis leader, so nigel— to be the gold crisis leader, so nigel had _ to be the gold crisis leader, so nigel had the primary role but there was a _ nigel had the primary role but there was a rotor— nigel had the primary role but there was a rotor of goals, and making sure _ was a rotor of goals, and making sure we — was a rotor of goals, and making sure we had _ was a rotor of goals, and making sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the eo - le in sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the people in that _ sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the people in that room _ sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the people in that room should _ sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the people in that room should know - sure we had 20 47 cover. surely, the | people in that room should know who the leaders are. i people in that room should know who the leaders are.— the leaders are. i think people didn't know — the leaders are. i think people didn't know who _ the leaders are. i think people didn't know who nigel- the leaders are. i think people didn't know who nigel was. i the leaders are. i think people didn't know who nigelwas. i l the leaders are. i think people - didn't know who nigelwas. i don't didn't know who nigel was. i don't think— didn't know who nigel was. i don't think anyone can beat their 24 slasher— think anyone can beat their 24 slasher seven. if this isn't what failure it looks like, what does failure look like? we successfully evacuated 15,000... no, i'm _ we successfully evacuated 15,000... no, i'm sorry, this is about the bureaucratic civil service system that should be running at a proper crisis centre, fully staffed. you said this was a scenario we envisioned and planned for. this isn't failure, what is? indie envisioned and planned for. this isn't failure, what is?— isn't failure, what is? we went throuih isn't failure, what is? we went through the — isn't failure, what is? we went through the gears _ isn't failure, what is? we went through the gears of _ isn't failure, what is? we went through the gears of putting i isn't failure, what is? we went. through the gears of putting more peopie _ through the gears of putting more people in. — through the gears of putting more people in, we ended up with 500 plus _ people in, we ended up with 500 lus. ~ people in, we ended up with 500 lus. . i1 i people in, we ended up with 500| plus-_ some people in, we ended up with 500 lus. ~ :: :: some of plus. where were the 500? some of them are in — plus. where were the 500? some of them are in the _ plus. where were the 500? some of them are in the crisis _ plus. where were the 500? some of them are in the crisis centre, - plus. where were the 500? some of them are in the crisis centre, somel them are in the crisis centre, some were _ them are in the crisis centre, some were working elsewhere, some were working _ were working elsewhere, some were working in _ were working elsewhere, some were working in our network. where is elsewhere? — working in our network. where is elsewhere? some of them could have been working from home. you cannot have 500 _ been working from home. you cannot have 500 people working in one space in a covid _ have 500 people working in one space in a covid time. it is about what they— in a covid time. it is about what they are — in a covid time. it is about what they are able to deliver. | in a covid time. it is about what they are able to deliver.- they are able to deliver. i will leave it there _ they are able to deliver. i will leave it there for _ they are able to deliver. i will leave it there for now. - they are able to deliver. i will. leave it there for now. apologies they are able to deliver. i will- leave it there for now. apologies to members and _ leave it there for now. apologies to members and witnesses _ leave it there for now. apologies to members and witnesses for - leave it there for now. apologies to members and witnesses for being l leave it there for now. apologies to i members and witnesses for being late for the _ members and witnesses for being late for the beginning _ members and witnesses for being late for the beginning of— members and witnesses for being late for the beginning of the _ members and witnesses for being late for the beginning of the hearing. - for the beginning of the hearing. can i_ for the beginning of the hearing. can i take — for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you _ for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you back— for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you back to— for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you back to the - for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you back to the issue i for the beginning of the hearing. can i take you back to the issue of holidays — can i take you back to the issue of holidays the _ can i take you back to the issue of holidays. the committee - can i take you back to the issue of holidays. the committee has- can i take you back to the issue ofl holidays. the committee has found can i take you back to the issue of. holidays. the committee has found it incredibly— holidays. the committee has found it incredibly difficult _ holidays. the committee has found it incredibly difficult to _ holidays. the committee has found it incredibly difficult to get _ holidays. the committee has found it incredibly difficult to get any - holidays. the committee has found it incredibly difficult to get any kind - incredibly difficult to get any kind of information— incredibly difficult to get any kind of information or— incredibly difficult to get any kind of information or accountability. of information or accountability from _ of information or accountability from the — of information or accountability from the department _ of information or accountability from the department and - of information or accountability from the department and in. from the department and in particular— from the department and in particular the _ from the department and in particular the former- from the department and in| particular the former foreign secretary— particular the former foreign secretary as _ particular the former foreign secretary as to _ particular the former foreign secretary as to what - particular the former foreign secretary as to what he - particular the former foreign secretary as to what he was i particular the former foreign i secretary as to what he was up particular the former foreign - secretary as to what he was up to, talking _ secretary as to what he was up to, talking to — secretary as to what he was up to, talking to and _ secretary as to what he was up to, talking to and discussing _ secretary as to what he was up to, talking to and discussing as - secretary as to what he was up to, talking to and discussing as the i talking to and discussing as the taliban— talking to and discussing as the taliban was— talking to and discussing as the taliban was advancing - talking to and discussing as the taliban was advancing across i taliban was advancing across afghanistan _ taliban was advancing across afghanistan towards - taliban was advancing across afghanistan towards kabul. i taliban was advancing across - afghanistan towards kabul. when did the foreign— afghanistan towards kabul. when did the foreign secretary— afghanistan towards kabul. when did the foreign secretary go _ afghanistan towards kabul. when did the foreign secretary go on - afghanistan towards kabul. when did the foreign secretary go on holiday? | the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date _ the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date did — the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date did he — the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date did he leave _ the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date did he leave the _ the foreign secretary go on holiday? what date did he leave the country? | what date did he leave the country? i am what date did he leave the country? i am not _ what date did he leave the country? i am not sure — what date did he leave the country? iam not sure i— what date did he leave the country? i am not sure i have _ what date did he leave the country? i am not sure i have a _ what date did he leave the country? i am not sure i have a date - what date did he leave the country? i am not sure i have a date in - what date did he leave the country? i am not sure i have a date in front. i am not sure i have a date in front of me _ i am not sure i have a date in front of me he — i am not sure i have a date in front of me. he dealt with that... he never told _ of me. he dealt with that... he never told us the date. no, he didn't — never told us the date. no, he didn't he _ never told us the date. no, he didn't. he did _ never told us the date. no, he didn't. he did his— never told us the date. no, he didn't. he did his usual- never told us the date. no, hel didn't. he did his usual bluster. never told us the date. no, he - didn't. he did his usual bluster. he accused _ didn't. he did his usual bluster. he accused me — didn't. he did his usual bluster. he accused me of— didn't. he did his usual bluster. he accused me of political— didn't. he did his usual bluster. he accused me of political fishing - accused me of political fishing expeditions _ accused me of political fishing expeditions. but _ accused me of political fishing expeditions. but what - accused me of political fishing expeditions. but what i - accused me of political fishing expeditions. but what i am i accused me of political fishing i expeditions. but what i am actually interested — expeditions. but what i am actually interested in— expeditions. but what i am actually interested in here _ expeditions. but what i am actually interested in here is _ expeditions. but what i am actually interested in here is the _ interested in here is the accountability. - interested in here is the accountability. it - interested in here is the accountability. it is i interested in here is the accountability. it is a i interested in here is the i accountability. it is a matter interested in here is the - accountability. it is a matter of public— accountability. it is a matter of public record _ accountability. it is a matter of public record that _ accountability. it is a matter of public record that when - accountability. it is a matter of public record that when the i accountability. it is a matter of- public record that when the taliban was taking — public record that when the taliban was taking various _ public record that when the taliban was taking various towns _ public record that when the taliban was taking various towns and i was taking various towns and provinces _ was taking various towns and provinces across _ was taking various towns and provinces across the - was taking various towns and j provinces across the country, was taking various towns and i provinces across the country, what was taking various towns and - provinces across the country, what i would _ provinces across the country, what i would like _ provinces across the country, what i would like to — provinces across the country, what i would like to do _ provinces across the country, what i would like to do is— provinces across the country, what i would like to do is match _ provinces across the country, what i would like to do is match the - provinces across the country, what i would like to do is match the datesl would like to do is match the dates they were — would like to do is match the dates they were taking _ would like to do is match the dates they were taking over _ would like to do is match the dates they were taking over various i would like to do is match the dates they were taking over various parts of the _ they were taking over various parts of the country— they were taking over various parts of the country with _ they were taking over various parts of the country with his _ they were taking over various parts of the country with his call - they were taking over various parts of the country with his call logs i of the country with his call logs and who— of the country with his call logs and who he _ of the country with his call logs and who he was— of the country with his call logs and who he was talking - of the country with his call logs and who he was talking to, i of the country with his call logs i and who he was talking to, when he was talking — and who he was talking to, when he was talking to — and who he was talking to, when he was talking to them, _ and who he was talking to, when he was talking to them, and _ and who he was talking to, when he was talking to them, and as - and who he was talking to, when he was talking to them, and as a - and who he was talking to, when he was talking to them, and as a part i was talking to them, and as a part of that, _ was talking to them, and as a part of that, i_ was talking to them, and as a part of that, iwill— was talking to them, and as a part of that, i will be _ was talking to them, and as a part of that, i will be honest _ was talking to them, and as a part of that, i will be honest with - was talking to them, and as a part of that, i will be honest with you, i of that, i will be honest with you, i of that, i will be honest with you, ithought— of that, i will be honest with you, i thought he — of that, i will be honest with you, i thought he would _ of that, i will be honest with you, i thought he would give _ of that, i will be honest with you, i thought he would give me - of that, i will be honest with you, i thought he would give me a i of that, i will be honest with you, | i thought he would give me a date and we _ i thought he would give me a date and we would _ i thought he would give me a date and we would move _ i thought he would give me a date and we would move onto - i thought he would give me a date and we would move onto the i i thought he would give me a date and we would move onto the next| and we would move onto the next question. — and we would move onto the next question. but— and we would move onto the next question, but he _ and we would move onto the next question, but he refuses- and we would move onto the next question, but he refuses to - and we would move onto the next question, but he refuses to save i and we would move onto the next i question, but he refuses to save the date himself — question, but he refuses to save the date himself. the _ question, but he refuses to save the date himself. the general— question, but he refuses to save the| date himself. the general consensus seems _ date himself. the general consensus seems to— date himself. the general consensus seems to be — date himself. the general consensus seems to be it — date himself. the general consensus seems to be it was _ date himself. the general consensus seems to be it was on _ date himself. the general consensus seems to be it was on or— date himself. the general consensus seems to be it was on or around i date himself. the general consensus seems to be it was on or around the| seems to be it was on or around the 4th of— seems to be it was on or around the 4th of august — seems to be it was on or around the ltth of august-— 4th of august. would you recognise that date? l — 4th of august. would you recognise that date? i do — 4th of august. would you recognise that date? i do not _ 4th of august. would you recognise that date? i do not have _ 4th of august. would you recognise that date? i do not have the - 4th of august. would you recognise that date? i do not have the dates i that date? i do not have the dates in front _ that date? i do not have the dates in front of— that date? i do not have the dates in front of me and i'm not going to speak _ in front of me and i'm not going to seak. .. ~ , in front of me and i'm not going to seak... ~ , , speak... mill, but the department would know _ speak... mill, but the department would know when _ speak... mill, but the department would know when it's _ speak... mill, but the department would know when it's secretary i speak... mill, but the department would know when it's secretary of| would know when it's secretary of state _ would know when it's secretary of state left — would know when it's secretary of state left the _ would know when it's secretary of state left the country? _ would know when it's secretary of state left the country? it - would know when it's secretary ofj state left the country? it wouldn't be an _ state left the country? it wouldn't be an unusual _ state left the country? it wouldn't be an unusual thing _ state left the country? it wouldn't be an unusual thing for— state left the country? it wouldn't be an unusual thing for the - state left the country? it wouldn't be an unusual thing for the head i state left the country? it wouldn'tl be an unusual thing for the head of the departnrent_ be an unusual thing for the head of the department to _ be an unusual thing for the head of the department to know. - be an unusual thing for the head of the department to know. i- be an unusual thing for the head of the department to know.— be an unusual thing for the head of the department to know. i don't have the department to know. i don't have the dates in — the department to know. i don't have the dates in front _ the department to know. i don't have the dates in front of _ the department to know. i don't have the dates in front of me _ the department to know. i don't have the dates in front of me and - the department to know. i don't have the dates in front of me and i - the department to know. i don't have the dates in front of me and i am i the dates in front of me and i am not going — the dates in front of me and i am not going to speak for the previous foreign— not going to speak for the previous foreign secretary. | not going to speak for the previous foreign secretary. i am not going to speak for the previous foreign secretary.— foreign secretary. i am not asking ou to. foreign secretary. i am not asking you to- does _ foreign secretary. i am not asking you to. does the _ foreign secretary. i am not asking you to. does the date _ foreign secretary. i am not asking you to. does the date exists i you to. does the date exists somewhere _ you to. does the date exists somewhere in _ you to. does the date exists somewhere in the _ you to. does the date exists somewhere in the foreign . you to. does the date exists - somewhere in the foreign office that you can _ somewhere in the foreign office that you can go _ somewhere in the foreign office that you can go back— somewhere in the foreign office that you can go back after— somewhere in the foreign office that you can go back after this _ somewhere in the foreign office that you can go back after this meeting, l you can go back after this meeting, .et you can go back after this meeting, get it_ you can go back after this meeting, get it and _ you can go back after this meeting, get it and send— you can go back after this meeting, get it and send it _ you can go back after this meeting, get it and send it to— you can go back after this meeting, get it and send it to the _ you can go back after this meeting, i get it and send it to the committee? i am happy— get it and send it to the committee? i am happy to— get it and send it to the committee? lam happy to take _ get it and send it to the committee? i am happy to take that— get it and send it to the committee? i am happy to take that question. i get it and send it to the committee? i am happy to take that question. so i am happy to take that question. sc it does i am happy to take that question. so it does exist? there _ i am happy to take that question. so it does exist? there is _ i am happy to take that question. so it does exist? there is a _ i am happy to take that question. so it does exist? there is a system - i am happy to take that question. so it does exist? there is a system for| it does exist? there is a system for ministerial — it does exist? there is a system for ministerial cover _ it does exist? there is a system for ministerial cover and _ it does exist? there is a system for ministerial cover and i _ it does exist? there is a system for ministerial cover and i will- it does exist? there is a system for ministerial cover and i will take - ministerial cover and i will take away— ministerial cover and i will take away the — ministerial cover and i will take away the question you asked me. so, the s stem away the question you asked me. so, the system will contain the date the foreign— the system will contain the date the foreign secretary— the system will contain the date the foreign secretary left, _ the system will contain the date the foreign secretary left, presumably, | foreign secretary left, presumably, you will _ foreign secretary left, presumably, you will share — foreign secretary left, presumably, you will share that _ foreign secretary left, presumably, you will share that with _ foreign secretary left, presumably, you will share that with the - you will share that with the committee? _ you will share that with the committee? i— you will share that with the committee?— you will share that with the committee? . . , _ ., . ~ committee? i am happy to take it awa . committee? i am happy to take it away- what _ committee? i am happy to take it away. what does _ committee? i am happy to take it away. what does that _ committee? i am happy to take it away. what does that mean? - committee? i am happy to take it away. what does that mean? i i committee? i am happy to take it| away. what does that mean? i am ha - to away. what does that mean? i am happy to look— away. what does that mean? i am happy to look at — away. what does that mean? i am happy to look at the _ away. what does that mean? i am happy to look at the information i away. what does that mean? i am | happy to look at the information we hold and _ happy to look at the information we hold and consult the previous foreign— hold and consult the previous foreign secretary. he hold and consult the previous foreign secretary.— hold and consult the previous foreign secretary. hold and consult the previous foreian secreta . ., �* . , ., foreign secretary. he won't want you to tell me because _ foreign secretary. he won't want you to tell me because he _ foreign secretary. he won't want you to tell me because he doesn't - to tell me because he doesn't scratch — to tell me because he doesn't scratch i — to tell me because he doesn't scratch i didn't— to tell me because he doesn't scratch i didn't tell— to tell me because he doesn't scratch i didn't tell me - to tell me because he doesn't i scratch i didn't tell me himself. to tell me because he doesn't - scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there _ scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a _ scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a reason— scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a reason we _ scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a reason we cannot - scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a reason we cannot get - scratch i didn't tell me himself. is there a reason we cannot get the i there a reason we cannot get the date? _ there a reason we cannot get the date? we — there a reason we cannot get the date? we know— there a reason we cannot get the date? we know he _ there a reason we cannot get the date? we know he was _ there a reason we cannot get the date? we know he was out - there a reason we cannot get the date? we know he was out of- there a reason we cannot get the | date? we know he was out of the country — date? we know he was out of the country we — date? we know he was out of the country. we know— date? we know he was out of the country. we know all— date? we know he was out of the country. we know all the - date? we know he was out of the country. we know all the stuff. date? we know he was out of the i country. we know all the stuff about a lreach— country. we know all the stuff about a beach being — country. we know all the stuff about a beach being closed. _ country. we know all the stuff about a beach being closed. why- country. we know all the stuff about a beach being closed. why can't - country. we know all the stuff about a beach being closed. why can't wel a beach being closed. why can't we .et a beach being closed. why can't we get the _ a beach being closed. why can't we get the date — a beach being closed. why can't we get the date he _ a beach being closed. why can't we get the date he left _ a beach being closed. why can't we get the date he left the _ a beach being closed. why can't we get the date he left the country? i get the date he left the country? i'm get the date he left the country? l'm happy— get the date he left the country? i'm happy to _ get the date he left the country? l'm happy to take— get the date he left the country? i'm happy to take that _ get the date he left the country? i'm happy to take that away - get the date he left the country? i'm happy to take that away and i i'm happy to take that away and consult — i'm happy to take that away and consult the previous foreign secretary. | consult the previous foreign secretary-— consult the previous foreign secreta . . , , secretary. i have submitted some recent questions _ secretary. i have submitted some recent questions looking - secretary. i have submitted some recent questions looking to - secretary. i have submitted some recent questions looking to find i secretary. i have submitted some i recent questions looking to find out on the _ recent questions looking to find out on the dates— recent questions looking to find out on the dates the _ recent questions looking to find out on the dates the taliban _ recent questions looking to find out on the dates the taliban were - on the dates the taliban were advancing _ on the dates the taliban were advancing ih _ on the dates the taliban were advancing in key— on the dates the taliban were advancing in key cities - on the dates the taliban were advancing in key cities and i advancing in key cities and provinces— advancing in key cities and provinces irr— advancing in key cities and provinces in parts- advancing in key cities and provinces in parts of- advancing in key cities and provinces in parts of the l advancing in key cities and - provinces in parts of the country. two maps — provinces in parts of the country. two maps that, _ provinces in parts of the country. two maps that, who _ provinces in parts of the country. two maps that, who the - provinces in parts of the country. two maps that, who the foreignl two maps that, who the foreign secretary — two maps that, who the foreign secretary was _ two maps that, who the foreign secretary was talking _ two maps that, who the foreign secretary was talking to - two maps that, who the foreign secretary was talking to and - two maps that, who the foreign . secretary was talking to and when. can secretary was talking to and when. carr i_ secretary was talking to and when. carr i get— secretary was talking to and when. carr i get the — secretary was talking to and when. can i get the call— secretary was talking to and when. can i get the call log? _ secretary was talking to and when. can i get the call log? i— secretary was talking to and when. can i get the call log?— can i get the call log? i thought he had already — can i get the call log? i thought he had already written _ can i get the call log? i thought he had already written to _ can i get the call log? i thought he had already written to the - can i get the call log? i thought he i had already written to the committee about _ had already written to the committee about who _ had already written to the committee about who he was in contact with. we did share _ about who he was in contact with. we did share a _ about who he was in contact with. we did share a long list. we about who he was in contact with. we did share a long list.— did share a long list. we never seem to net the did share a long list. we never seem to get the preper_ did share a long list. we never seem to get the proper black _ did share a long list. we never seem to get the proper black and - did share a long list. we never seem to get the proper black and white - to get the proper black and white detail~ _ to get the proper black and white detail~ i— to get the proper black and white detail~ i am — to get the proper black and white detail. i am particularly- to get the proper black and whitel detail. i am particularly interested in the _ detail. i am particularly interested in the foreign— detail. i am particularly interested in the foreign secretary's - detail. i am particularly interested in the foreign secretary's phone l in the foreign secretary's phone calls _ in the foreign secretary's phone calls i_ in the foreign secretary's phone calls i have _ in the foreign secretary's phone calls. i have some _ in the foreign secretary's phone calls. i have some information. in the foreign secretary's phone - calls. i have some information about lord calls. i have some information about lord ahmed — calls. i have some information about lord ahmed and _ calls. i have some information about lord ahmed and lord _ calls. i have some information about lord ahmed and lord goldsmith - calls. i have some information about lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but| calls. i have some information about| lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but i want to— lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but i want to know— lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but i want to know who _ lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but i want to know who the _ lord ahmed and lord goldsmith but i want to know who the foreign - want to know who the foreign secretary _ want to know who the foreign secretary was _ want to know who the foreign secretary was speaking - want to know who the foreign secretary was speaking to. i want to know who the foreign i secretary was speaking to. not because — secretary was speaking to. not because i— secretary was speaking to. not because i am _ secretary was speaking to. not because i am on— secretary was speaking to. not because i am on a _ secretary was speaking to. not because i am on a political- secretary was speaking to. not i because i am on a political fishing expedition. — because i am on a political fishing expedition, but _ because i am on a political fishing expedition, but because - because i am on a political fishing expedition, but because i- because i am on a political fishing expedition, but because i think. expedition, but because i think accountability— expedition, but because i think accountability matters. - expedition, but because i think accountability matters. i - expedition, but because i think accountability matters. i knowl expedition, but because i think- accountability matters. i know that is unfashionable _ accountability matters. i know that is unfashionable with _ accountability matters. i know that is unfashionable with ministers - accountability matters. i know that is unfashionable with ministers at. is unfashionable with ministers at the moment _ is unfashionable with ministers at the moment. but— is unfashionable with ministers at the moment. but i _ is unfashionable with ministers at the moment. but i think- is unfashionable with ministers at the moment. but i think it - is unfashionable with ministers at the moment. but i think it does l the moment. but i think it does matter— the moment. but i think it does matter and _ the moment. but i think it does matter and it _ the moment. but i think it does matter and it matters _ the moment. but i think it does matter and it matters to - the moment. but i think it does matter and it matters to this i matter and it matters to this committee _ matter and it matters to this committee. can _ matter and it matters to this committee. can we - matter and it matters to this committee. can we get - matter and it matters to this committee. can we get the i matter and it matters to this . committee. can we get the full august— committee. can we get the full august call— committee. can we get the full august call logs _ committee. can we get the full august call logs for— committee. can we get the full august call logs for the - committee. can we get the full august call logs for the former| august call logs for the former foreign— august call logs for the former foreign secretary— august call logs for the former foreign secretary and - august call logs for the former foreign secretary and the - august call logs for the former foreign secretary and the date august call logs for the former. foreign secretary and the date he went on— foreign secretary and the date he went on holiday? _ foreign secretary and the date he went on holiday? i— foreign secretary and the date he went on holiday?— went on holiday? i think we did riaht to went on holiday? i think we did right to the _ went on holiday? i think we did right to the committee. - went on holiday? i think we did right to the committee. just. went on holiday? i think we did right to the committee. just to | right to the committee. just to confirm, following _ right to the committee. just to confirm, following your - right to the committee. just to i confirm, following your questions right to the committee. just to - confirm, following your questions at the last oral testimony session, he wrote on the 15th of september with a number of answers to some of your questions, and he promised an attachment of all the calls and meetings and other incidences at his level and the other ministers in the relative period. i level and the other ministers in the relative period.— relative period. i will bring this to a close _ relative period. i will bring this to a close because _ relative period. i will bring this to a close because i _ relative period. i will bring this to a close because i am - relative period. i will bring this i to a close because i am conscious of the members — to a close because i am conscious of the members want— to a close because i am conscious of the members want to _ to a close because i am conscious of the members want to come - to a close because i am conscious of the members want to come in. i to a close because i am conscious of. the members want to come in. nigel, do you _ the members want to come in. nigel, do you know— the members want to come in. nigel, do you know when _ the members want to come in. nigel, do you know when the _ the members want to come in. nigel, do you know when the foreign - do you know when the foreign secretary _ do you know when the foreign secretary went _ do you know when the foreign secretary went on _ do you know when the foreign secretary went on holiday? i l do you know when the foreign. secretary went on holiday? i do do you know when the foreign secretary went on holiday? i do not know the dates. _ secretary went on holiday? i do not know the dates. went _ secretary went on holiday? i do not know the dates. went to _ secretary went on holiday? i do not know the dates. went to the i secretary went on holiday? i do not| know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in — know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in july _ know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in july or _ know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in july or august _ know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in july or august speak i know the dates. went to the foreign secretary in july or august speak to l secretary in july or august speak to the secretary— secretary in july or august speak to the secretary general— secretary in july or august speak to the secretary general of _ secretary in july or august speak to the secretary general of nato? i secretary in july or august speak to the secretary general of nato? can| the secretary general of nato? can we get _ the secretary general of nato? can we get that? — the secretary general of nato? can we get that? idie— the secretary general of nato? can we get that?— we get that? we can look at it if it wasn't in what _ we get that? we can look at it if it wasn't in what nigel _ we get that? we can look at it if it wasn't in what nigel is _ we get that? we can look at it if it wasn't in what nigel is talking i wasn't in what nigel is talking about — wasn't in what nigel is talking about. it— wasn't in what nigel is talking about. . . �* wasn't in what nigel is talking about- now - wasn't in what nigel is talking about.- now i i wasn't in what nigel is talking about.- now i will. wasn't in what nigel is talking | about.- now i will ask wasn't in what nigel is talking i about.- now i will ask you about. it wasn't. now i will ask you some questions — about. it wasn't. now i will ask you some questions about _ about. it wasn't. now i will ask you some questions about marshall's . some questions about marshall's commons and the evidence he gave us which i am sure you have probably had a good look at in these papers and elsewhere today. do you think these comments are fair because it does make some fairly strong allegations. his does make some fairly strong allegations.— does make some fairly strong alleuations. , . . ,., . allegations. his central point that he made, allegations. his central point that he made. that — allegations. his central point that he made, that we _ allegations. his central point that he made, that we looked - allegations. his central point that he made, that we looked at i allegations. his central point that he made, that we looked at was i allegations. his central point that i he made, that we looked at was that there _ he made, that we looked at was that there had _ he made, that we looked at was that there had been a breach in the civil service _ there had been a breach in the civil service code, and there was a senior diplomat _ service code, and there was a senior diplomat who had not been involved at all and _ diplomat who had not been involved at all and found no breach of the civil service _ at all and found no breach of the civil service code. she did point to some _ civil service code. she did point to some issues, but she did say very clearly— some issues, but she did say very clearly that — some issues, but she did say very clearly that under huge pressure, people _ clearly that under huge pressure, people had done their very best to deliver— people had done their very best to deliver outcomes. i think overall some _ deliver outcomes. i think overall some of— deliver outcomes. i think overall some of the things he said is things we will— some of the things he said is things we will look at in our training, other— we will look at in our training, other things i don't think it's fair — other things i don't think it's fair. . ~ . other things i don't think it's fair. . ,, , fair. he makes some quite telling criticisms on _ fair. he makes some quite telling criticisms on individual— fair. he makes some quite telling criticisms on individual and i criticisms on individual and specific things, and one of his strongest criticisms seems to be a sort of willingness, which sadly some of us have encountered before, and over optimism and over hopefulness that you had tens of thousands of people coming forward and you ended up having very few. —— woolliness. we sent thousands of e—mails, most of which seem to have gone completely unanswered. for all we know they could have been binned. that allegation about the amount of information you have been given and the amount of people and the amount of e—mails from mps... the amount of people and the amount of e-mails from mps. . .— of e-mails from mps. .. perfectly reasonable _ of e-mails from mps. .. perfectly reasonable question. _ of e-mails from mps. .. perfectly reasonable question. the - of e-mails from mps. .. perfectly reasonable question. the first i of e-mails from mps. .. perfectly i reasonable question. the first thing to say— reasonable question. the first thing to say is— reasonable question. the first thing to say is we — reasonable question. the first thing to say is we received a monumental amount— to say is we received a monumental amount of— to say is we received a monumental amount of correspondence, so i think it was— amount of correspondence, so i think it was something like hundred and 80.000 _ it was something like hundred and 80,000 pieces of correspondence in august. _ 80,000 pieces of correspondence in august, nearly a quarter of a million — august, nearly a quarter of a million in _ august, nearly a quarter of a million in total. 19,000 was the peak— million in total. 19,000 was the peak day— million in total. 19,000 was the peak day and that compares at the height— peak day and that compares at the height of— peak day and that compares at the height of the covid crisis where we .ot height of the covid crisis where we got about— height of the covid crisis where we got about 14,000 in two months. so it was— got about 14,000 in two months. so it was a _ got about 14,000 in two months. so it was a very— got about 14,000 in two months. so it was a very high volume. secondly, in terms _ it was a very high volume. secondly, in terms of— it was a very high volume. secondly, in terms of what we did about that, re—prioritised basically d work to .et re—prioritised basically d work to get people onto flights and to go through— get people onto flights and to go through information received to see whether— through information received to see whether that led to more people rather— whether that led to more people rather than replying to each individual piece of correspondence. i individual piece of correspondence. l recognise — individual piece of correspondence. i recognise very much, especially in the house. — i recognise very much, especially in the house, that meant that you and this room _ the house, that meant that you and this room here, also across the house. _ this room here, also across the house, were not getting replies. we put in _ house, were not getting replies. we put in place — house, were not getting replies. we put in place additional resource to work— put in place additional resource to work through all the cases and give you all— work through all the cases and give you all replies in september. but that was— you all replies in september. but that was the position we made, to prioritise — that was the position we made, to prioritise looking at correspondence rather— prioritise looking at correspondence rather than — prioritise looking at correspondence rather than answering it. do prioritise looking at correspondence rather than answering it.— rather than answering it. do you think we were _ rather than answering it. do you think we were getting _ rather than answering it. do you think we were getting false i think we were getting false assurances this was being taken care of when in fact you are being overwhelmed? i don't know if that is a lack of honesty or clarity, or just levelling with us about what you can do. i just levelling with us about what you can do— you can do. i think this sorts of volumes we — you can do. i think this sorts of volumes we received _ you can do. i think this sorts of volumes we received were i you can do. i think this sorts of i volumes we received were extremely difficult _ volumes we received were extremely difficult to _ volumes we received were extremely difficult to handle. as i said earlier— difficult to handle. as i said earlier on, difficult to handle. as i said earlieron, in difficult to handle. as i said earlier on, in terms of the three schemes, — earlier on, in terms of the three schemes, the one around special cases— schemes, the one around special cases wasn't an application process, we agreed _ cases wasn't an application process, we agreed categories with ministers and i looked for people within those categories _ and i looked for people within those categories and give them the space we had _ categories and give them the space we had available. i think to acknowledge your point of view, one of the _ acknowledge your point of view, one of the things we are looking at and put it— of the things we are looking at and put it very— of the things we are looking at and put it very socially what this committee said abound call handling and we _ committee said abound call handling and we will put in place in more capability— and we will put in place in more capability on that side. we will want _ capability on that side. we will want to— capability on that side. we will want to look at how we create more contingency — want to look at how we create more contingency resource if we face correspondence as opposed to calls on this— correspondence as opposed to calls on this scale in the future. gn correspondence as opposed to calls on this scale in the future.- on this scale in the future. on two secific on this scale in the future. on two specific things. — on this scale in the future. on two specific things, if _ on this scale in the future. on two specific things, if i _ on this scale in the future. on two specific things, ifi may, _ on this scale in the future. on two specific things, if i may, do i on this scale in the future. on two specific things, if i may, do you i specific things, if i may, do you think your approach... the problem is with these circumstances the, they become overwhelming very quickly so i have some sympathy with the position you are in, you are on holiday, it wasn't the best time for a crisis to happen but crisis tend to choose the best time. was there are frankly a look of —— a lack of urgency and that is why you found yourself collectively so overwhelmed so quickly? i yourself collectively so overwhelmed so cuickl ? ., �* ~' yourself collectively so overwhelmed so cuickl ? ., �* ,, so quickly? i don't think it was about lack— so quickly? i don't think it was about lack of _ so quickly? i don't think it was about lack of urgency. - so quickly? i don't think it was about lack of urgency. i i so quickly? i don't think it was about lack of urgency. i think. so quickly? i don't think it was | about lack of urgency. i think it was about— about lack of urgency. i think it was about the scale and complexity of the _ was about the scale and complexity of the circumstances we are faced. and specifically, and on the slightly depressing issue raised about worklife balance, everybody was being told not to work long hours and make sure you got your eight hours and i am thinking, this is a once in a decade crisis. we have had covid, it is twice in a decade, these things are very rare and there comes a point when people be they have to put their shoulder to the grindstone. if you have got soldiers at the airport working around the clock, people clocking off after eight hours, not bothering to come in for the weekend, it is all complacent and unfocused and just a bit rubbish, isn't it? i simply don't recognise that. i think based _ simply don't recognise that. i think based on _ simply don't recognise that. i think based on a — simply don't recognise that. i think based on a misunderstanding, there isn't to— based on a misunderstanding, there isn't to clocking off culture at all. isn't to clocking off culture at all~ we — isn't to clocking off culture at all. we spent more time trying to persuade — all. we spent more time trying to persuade people not to work too hard and burn— persuade people not to work too hard and burn out. in terms of the eight hours. _ and burn out. in terms of the eight hours. when — and burn out. in terms of the eight hours, when we are in full blown crisis. _ hours, when we are in full blown crisis. we — hours, when we are in full blown crisis. we do _ hours, when we are in full blown crisis, we do have an eight hour shift _ crisis, we do have an eight hour shift system and we make sure therefore — shift system and we make sure therefore that people are getting a period _ therefore that people are getting a period of— therefore that people are getting a period of rest and coming back onto ships— period of rest and coming back onto ships as _ period of rest and coming back onto ships as well. i think that is a fairly— ships as well. i think that is a fairly standard 24 hours. depending on the _ fairly standard 24 hours. depending on the piece of the crisis, we might have _ on the piece of the crisis, we might have a _ on the piece of the crisis, we might have a long — on the piece of the crisis, we might have a long day with two shifts. nigel— have a long day with two shifts. nigel may want to add, but i really don't _ nigel may want to add, but i really don't recognise what was said. on that don't recognise what was said. that shift don't recognise what was said. on that shift system, you had enough people to do the night shift because he is implying that because you had this worklife balance, which is very important, don't get me wrong, that actually some of the time you did not have back—up that you needed to have. not have back-up that you needed to have. . .. not have back-up that you needed to have. , ., �* . not have back-up that you needed to have. , .,, �* ., ., “ have. this wasn't about worklife balance, have. this wasn't about worklife balance. this — have. this wasn't about worklife balance, this was _ have. this wasn't about worklife balance, this was about - have. this wasn't about worklife balance, this was about shifts . have. this wasn't about worklife j balance, this was about shifts in have. this wasn't about worklife l balance, this was about shifts in a crisis _ balance, this was about shifts in a crisis to— balance, this was about shifts in a crisis to make sure people don't burn— crisis to make sure people don't burn out— crisis to make sure people don't burn out crisis and work too long in one of— burn out crisis and work too long in one of time — burn out crisis and work too long in one of time. can burn out crisis and work too long in one of time-— one of time. can i come in to that for one second? _ one of time. can i come in to that for one second? it _ one of time. can i come in to that for one second? it is _ one of time. can i come in to that for one second? it is a _ one of time. can i come in to that| for one second? it is a common... one of time. can i come in to that i for one second? it is a common... it is recognised — for one second? it is a common... it is recognised unanimously— for one second? it is a common... it is recognised unanimously across i for one second? it is a common... it| is recognised unanimously across the foreign— is recognised unanimously across the foreign office — is recognised unanimously across the foreign office there _ is recognised unanimously across the foreign office there is _ is recognised unanimously across the foreign office there is an _ is recognised unanimously across the foreign office there is an issue - foreign office there is an issue never— foreign office there is an issue never enough _ foreign office there is an issue never enough people _ foreign office there is an issue never enough people for- foreign office there is an issue never enough people for our. foreign office there is an issue i never enough people for our duties, which _ never enough people for our duties, which is _ never enough people for our duties, which is why— never enough people for our duties, which is why we _ never enough people for our duties, which is why we have _ never enough people for our duties, which is why we have to _ never enough people for our duties, which is why we have to go - never enough people for our duties, which is why we have to go across . which is why we have to go across government. _ which is why we have to go across government. every— which is why we have to go across government, every time - which is why we have to go across government, every time there - which is why we have to go across government, every time there is. which is why we have to go across i government, every time there is an application — government, every time there is an application a _ government, every time there is an application... a rapid _ government, every time there is an application... a rapid appointmentl application... a rapid appointment team _ application... a rapid appointment team who — application... a rapid appointment team who is — application... a rapid appointment team who is brought— application... a rapid appointment team who is brought in— application... a rapid appointment team who is brought in to - application... a rapid appointment team who is brought in to staff- team who is brought in to staff this, _ team who is brought in to staff this, you — team who is brought in to staff this, you do _ team who is brought in to staff this, you do not _ team who is brought in to staff this, you do not get _ team who is brought in to staff this, you do not get enough i team who is brought in to staff- this, you do not get enough people. i this, you do not get enough people. i have _ this, you do not get enough people. i have never— this, you do not get enough people. i have never in— this, you do not get enough people. i have never in my— this, you do not get enough people. i have never in my time _ this, you do not get enough people. i have never in my time in _ this, you do not get enough people. i have never in my time in the - i have never in my time in the foreign— i have never in my time in the foreign office _ i have never in my time in the foreign office ever— i have never in my time in the foreign office ever seen - i have never in my time in the foreign office ever seen a - i have never in my time in the i foreign office ever seen a crisis where _ foreign office ever seen a crisis where they— foreign office ever seen a crisis where they were _ foreign office ever seen a crisis where they were able _ foreign office ever seen a crisis where they were able to - foreign office ever seen a crisis where they were able to fill- foreign office ever seen a crisis where they were able to fill all. foreign office ever seen a crisis i where they were able to fill all the slots without — where they were able to fill all the slots without constantly _ where they were able to fill all the slots without constantly coming i where they were able to fill all the| slots without constantly coming out nicetv _ slots without constantly coming out nicetv asking — slots without constantly coming out nicetv asking for _ slots without constantly coming out nicely asking for more _ slots without constantly coming out nicely asking for more capacity. - slots without constantly coming out nicely asking for more capacity. i i nicely asking for more capacity. i find it— nicely asking for more capacity. i find it very— nicely asking for more capacity. i find it very difficult, _ nicely asking for more capacity. i find it very difficult, in _ nicely asking for more capacity. i find it very difficult, in fact - nicely asking for more capacity. i find it very difficult, in fact i- find it very difficult, in fact i find — find it very difficult, in fact i find it— find it very difficult, in fact i find it incredibly— find it very difficult, in fact i find it incredibly plausible . find it very difficult, in fact i. find it incredibly plausible that there — find it incredibly plausible that there were _ find it incredibly plausible that there were not _ find it incredibly plausible that there were not enough - find it incredibly plausible that there were not enough peoplei find it incredibly plausible that. there were not enough people to find it incredibly plausible that - there were not enough people to fill ni-ht there were not enough people to fill night shifts — there were not enough people to fill night shifts. and _ there were not enough people to fill night shifts. and the _ there were not enough people to fill night shifts. and the idea _ there were not enough people to fill night shifts. and the idea that- there were not enough people to fill night shifts. and the idea that we i night shifts. and the idea that we had only— night shifts. and the idea that we had only one _ night shifts. and the idea that we had only one person _ night shifts. and the idea that we had only one person at _ night shifts. and the idea that we had only one person at some - night shifts. and the idea that we. had only one person at some point night shifts. and the idea that we - had only one person at some point in the special— had only one person at some point in the special cases— had only one person at some point in the special cases inbox. _ had only one person at some point in the special cases inbox. that- had only one person at some point in the special cases inbox. that is- had only one person at some point in the special cases inbox. that is not. the special cases inbox. that is not enough _ the special cases inbox. that is not enough i_ the special cases inbox. that is not enough ianr — the special cases inbox. that is not enough. i am looking _ the special cases inbox. that is not enough. i am looking for— the special cases inbox. that is not enough. i am looking for you - the special cases inbox. that is not enough. i am looking for you to - enough. i am looking for you to persuade — enough. i am looking for you to persuade rne. _ enough. i am looking for you to persuade me, and _ enough. i am looking for you to persuade me, and i— enough. i am looking for you to persuade me, and i don't- enough. i am looking for you to persuade me, and i don't feel. enough. i am looking for you to - persuade me, and i don't feel there is grip, _ persuade me, and i don't feel there is grip, that— persuade me, and i don't feel there is grip, that these _ persuade me, and i don't feel there is grip, that these night _ persuade me, and i don't feel there is grip, that these night shifts- is grip, that these night shifts were — is grip, that these night shifts were properly— is grip, that these night shifts were properly filled _ is grip, that these night shifts were properly filled and - is grip, that these night shifts were properly filled and therei is grip, that these night shifts- were properly filled and there was conscription — were properly filled and there was conscription of— were properly filled and there was conscription of staff— were properly filled and there was conscription of staff onto - were properly filled and there was conscription of staff onto this - conscription of staff onto this crisis — conscription of staff onto this crisis. in _ conscription of staff onto this crisis. , ., ., ., crisis. in terms of the overall response. — crisis. in terms of the overall response, the _ crisis. in terms of the overall response, the first _ crisis. in terms of the overall response, the first thing - crisis. in terms of the overall response, the first thing to l crisis. in terms of the overall. response, the first thing to say crisis. in terms of the overall- response, the first thing to say is as a department we are organised and funded _ as a department we are organised and funded to— as a department we are organised and funded to deliver day in and day out around _ funded to deliver day in and day out around the — funded to deliver day in and day out around the world, and that is the nature _ around the world, and that is the nature of— around the world, and that is the nature of our business, but we do have _ nature of our business, but we do have and — nature of our business, but we do have and want to have a crisis response _ have and want to have a crisis response capability over the years as we _ response capability over the years as we have — response capability over the years as we have gone through big crisis, we have _ as we have gone through big crisis, we have looked at how best to do that _ we have looked at how best to do that for— we have looked at how best to do that. for example, after the crisis in the _ that. for example, after the crisis in the caribbean in 2017, we did have _ in the caribbean in 2017, we did have problems. we created a system called _ have problems. we created a system called direct crisis lists which allows— called direct crisis lists which attows us— called direct crisis lists which allows us to access people from each different _ allows us to access people from each different business unit of the department, to staff crisis. one of the things— department, to staff crisis. one of the things we are doing is looking at the _ the things we are doing is looking at the extent to which that worked effectively and how we can be more agile, _ effectively and how we can be more agile, how— effectively and how we can be more agile, how we can be able to access contingent— agile, how we can be able to access contingent capability without you reducing — contingent capability without you reducing significantly our ability to deliver day in and day out business _ to deliver day in and day out business. nigel, did you want to add anything _ business. nigel, did you want to add anything around the staffing issues in august? to anything around the staffing issues in au~ust? ., . , . in august? to answer the direct question. _ in august? to answer the direct question, when _ in august? to answer the direct question, when it _ in august? to answer the direct question, when it was - in august? to answer the direct question, when it was clear - in august? to answer the direct question, when it was clear we | question, when it was clear we needed to increase staffing rapidly as evidently, we went to the all directors general and they were all asked to produce a certain number of staff by a certain date, so there was an element of compulsion for the whole organisation to contribute and thatis whole organisation to contribute and that is what happened. fin whole organisation to contribute and that is what happened.— whole organisation to contribute and that is what happened. on the nights of sunday the — that is what happened. on the nights of sunday the 22nd _ that is what happened. on the nights of sunday the 22nd of _ that is what happened. on the nights of sunday the 22nd of august - that is what happened. on the nights of sunday the 22nd of august to - of sunday the 22nd of august to monday— of sunday the 22nd of august to monday the _ of sunday the 22nd of august to monday the 23rd _ of sunday the 22nd of august to monday the 23rd of _ of sunday the 22nd of august to monday the 23rd of august, - of sunday the 22nd of august to| monday the 23rd of august, iced understand — monday the 23rd of august, iced understand there _ monday the 23rd of august, iced understand there was _ monday the 23rd of august, iced understand there was no - monday the 23rd of august, iced understand there was no night . monday the 23rd of august, iced i understand there was no night shift attocated _ understand there was no night shift attocated at — understand there was no night shift allocated at all. _ understand there was no night shift allocated at all. are _ understand there was no night shift allocated at all. are you _ understand there was no night shift allocated at all. are you happy- understand there was no night shift allocated at all. are you happy to l allocated at all. are you happy to say todav— allocated at all. are you happy to say today that _ allocated at all. are you happy to say today that absolutely - say today that absolutely categorically _ say today that absolutely categorically was - say today that absolutely categorically was a - say today that absolutely categorically was a night| say today that absolutely - categorically was a night shift for the special— categorically was a night shift for the special cases— categorically was a night shift for the special cases team _ categorically was a night shift for the special cases team and - categorically was a night shift for. the special cases team and beyond that? _ the special cases team and beyond that? woutd — the special cases team and beyond that? would you _ the special cases team and beyond that? would you put _ the special cases team and beyond that? would you put that - the special cases team and beyond that? would you put that in- the special cases team and beyondi that? would you put that in writing as a follow-up? _ that? would you put that in writing as a follow—up? i _ that? would you put that in writing as a follow-op?— that? would you put that in writing as a follow-up? i can tell you there were night — as a follow-up? i can tell you there were night shift _ as a follow-up? i can tell you there were night shift rostered _ as a follow-up? i can tell you there were night shift rostered from - as a follow-up? i can tell you there were night shift rostered from the l were night shift rostered from the 14th of— were night shift rostered from the 14th of august onwards throughout the crisis. there _ 14th of august onwards throughout the crisis. there were _ 14th of august onwards throughout the crisis. there were shifts - 14th of august onwards throughout the crisis. there were shifts in - the crisis. there were shifts in every 20 47 period. i can't tell you the precise numbers in every single team. ~ . . the precise numbers in every single team. . ., the precise numbers in every single team. ~ , ., team. was it rostered? does it mean they turned — team. was it rostered? does it mean they turned op? _ team. was it rostered? does it mean they turned up? are _ team. was it rostered? does it mean they turned up? are you _ team. was it rostered? does it mean they turned up? are you absolutely l they turned up? are you absolutely certain _ they turned up? are you absolutely certain there — they turned up? are you absolutely certain there was _ they turned up? are you absolutely certain there was a _ they turned up? are you absolutely certain there was a night _ they turned up? are you absolutely certain there was a night shift - they turned up? are you absolutely certain there was a night shift on i certain there was a night shift on those _ certain there was a night shift on those evenings _ certain there was a night shift on those evenings and _ certain there was a night shift on those evenings and every - certain there was a night shift on those evenings and every singlei those evenings and every single evening, — those evenings and every single evening, because _ those evenings and every single evening, because i— those evenings and every single evening, because i understand. those evenings and every single - evening, because i understand people did not— evening, because i understand people did not turn— evening, because i understand people did not turn up— evening, because i understand people did not turn up that _ evening, because i understand people did not turn up that evening? - evening, because i understand people did not turn up that evening? those . did not turn up that evening? those evenings, _ did not turn up that evening? those evenings, pturat _ did not turn up that evening? those evenings, plural. [— did not turn up that evening? those evenings, plural.— evenings, plural. i would have to check that- _ evenings, plural. i would have to check that. i _ evenings, plural. i would have to check that. i would _ evenings, plural. i would have to check that. i would just - evenings, plural. i would have to check that. i would just add - evenings, plural. i would have to check that. i would just add that | evenings, plural. i would have to| check that. i would just add that i check that. i would 'ust add that i would have hoped — check that. i would just add that i would have hoped to _ check that. i would just add that i would have hoped to hear- check that. i would just add that i would have hoped to hear of- check that. i would just add that i l would have hoped to hear of course there _ would have hoped to hear of course there was _ would have hoped to hear of course there was not— would have hoped to hear of course there was not one _ would have hoped to hear of course there was not one evening - would have hoped to hear of course there was not one evening where l would have hoped to hear of coursel there was not one evening where we did not— there was not one evening where we did not have — there was not one evening where we did not have a — there was not one evening where we did not have a fully— there was not one evening where we did not have a fully stocked - there was not one evening where we did not have a fully stocked team . did not have a fully stocked team detivering — did not have a fully stocked team delivering exactly _ did not have a fully stocked team delivering exactly what _ did not have a fully stocked team delivering exactly what was - did not have a fully stocked team . delivering exactly what was needed across _ delivering exactly what was needed across every— delivering exactly what was needed across every single _ delivering exactly what was needed across every single team _ delivering exactly what was needed across every single team in - delivering exactly what was needed across every single team in the - across every single team in the crisis _ across every single team in the crisis centre. _ across every single team in the crisis centre, and _ across every single team in the crisis centre, and it _ across every single team in the crisis centre, and it is - across every single team in the crisis centre, and it is quite - across every single team in the i crisis centre, and it is quite clear when _ crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you — crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you are _ crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you are sat— crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you are sat in— crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you are sat in the - crisis centre, and it is quite clear when you are sat in the crisis- when you are sat in the crisis centre. — when you are sat in the crisis centre. if— when you are sat in the crisis centre, if there _ when you are sat in the crisis centre, if there is _ when you are sat in the crisis centre, if there is an - when you are sat in the crisis centre, if there is an empty. when you are sat in the crisis- centre, if there is an empty team it can tre— centre, if there is an empty team it can be seen— centre, if there is an empty team it can be seenvery— centre, if there is an empty team it can be seen very easily. _ centre, if there is an empty team it can be seen very easily. i— centre, if there is an empty team it can be seen very easily.— can be seen very easily. i 'ust want to come back i can be seen very easily. i 'ust want to come back merely _ can be seen very easily. i 'ust want to come back merely on _ can be seen very easily. ijust want to come back merely on an - can be seen very easily. ijust want to come back merely on an earlierl to come back merely on an earlier point _ to come back merely on an earlier point of— to come back merely on an earlier point of clarity and i wanted to ask sir laurie. — point of clarity and i wanted to ask sir laurie, on the 2nd of august, it is reported — sir laurie, on the 2nd of august, it is reported you sent a diplomatic cahte _ is reported you sent a diplomatic cable warning that we are entering a new dangerous phase of the conflict and it— new dangerous phase of the conflict and it is— new dangerous phase of the conflict and it is likely the taliban will take — and it is likely the taliban will take cities. can you confirm that was correct _ take cities. can you confirm that was correct and would you have expected — was correct and would you have expected that soon after that the foreign— expected that soon after that the foreign secretary to have gone on holiday? _ foreign secretary to have gone on holiday? my foreign secretary to have gone on holida ? g ., , foreign secretary to have gone on holida ? g . , ., , foreign secretary to have gone on holida? g . ,, holiday? my telegrams as published seak holiday? my telegrams as published s - eak for holiday? my telegrams as published speak for themselves. _ holiday? my telegrams as published speak for themselves. what - holiday? my telegrams as published speak for themselves. what i - holiday? my telegrams as published speak for themselves. what i was i speak for themselves. what i was trying to do, as you would expect in the circumstances, is tell it as i saw it. we were seeing major developers on the battlefield, we had emerged from a kind of ceasefire and we had seen an escalating pattern of attacks in kabul as well, including probably the most important was the unsuccessful attack on the defence minister's house, which was a couple of blocks overfor house, which was a couple of blocks over for my residence. if he house, which was a couple of blocks overfor my residence. if he had been at home, they would have probably killed him and we would have been any different face. there had been a rocket attack on the government at the end of each players. —— eid players. government at the end of each players. -- eid players.- government at the end of each players. -- eid players. would you have expected _ players. -- eid players. would you have expected the _ players. -- eid players. would you have expected the foreign - players. -- eid players. would you i have expected the foreign secretary to have _ have expected the foreign secretary to have gone on holiday? we have expected the foreign secretary to have gone on holiday?— have expected the foreign secretary to have gone on holiday? we can see the situation — to have gone on holiday? we can see the situation was _ to have gone on holiday? we can see the situation was moving _ to have gone on holiday? we can see the situation was moving into - to have gone on holiday? we can see the situation was moving into a - the situation was moving into a different phase. the taliban are upping the level of violence and becoming more and more challenging across the country, including in kabul. but we did not know the timescale in which this would end or how it would end.— timescale in which this would end or how it would end. what would you put the sack in terms _ how it would end. what would you put the sack in terms of— how it would end. what would you put the sack in terms of the _ how it would end. what would you put the sack in terms of the plans - how it would end. what would you put the sack in terms of the plans put - the sack in terms of the plans put in place. — the sack in terms of the plans put in place, what would you have expected _ in place, what would you have expected in terms of those plans in relation _ expected in terms of those plans in relation to— expected in terms of those plans in relation to the foreign secretary, in relation — relation to the foreign secretary, in relation to the ability to be present— in relation to the ability to be present and for you to be able to have _ present and for you to be able to have simplification? —— some communication. have simplification? -- some communication.— have simplification? -- some communication. ~ . , ., communication. what i was trying to do in this telegrams _ communication. what i was trying to do in this telegrams is _ communication. what i was trying to do in this telegrams is to _ communication. what i was trying to do in this telegrams is to alert - communication. what i was trying to do in this telegrams is to alert the l do in this telegrams is to alert the centre to what was unfolding. of course, that wasn't the only source of information. i have done it two directorjobs in london. studio: if you'rejustjoining us, we are taking the proceedings from the foreign affairs select committee live from westminster, looking into the allegations of possible rafael marshall as outlined yesterday about the chaos and dysfunction of the withdrawal from the chaos and dysfunction of the withdrawalfrom kabul, in terms the chaos and dysfunction of the withdrawal from kabul, in terms of the number of people brought out by the number of people brought out by the british authorities. a failure to prioritise according to rafael marshall, less than 5%. speaking at the moment or answering questions at the moment or answering questions at the moment or answering questions at the moment is sir laurie bristow, the moment is sir laurie bristow, the former british ambassador to afghanistan. also alongside him the head of the diplomatic service remotely is nigel casey. let'sjust hear what sir philip barton has to say now. to find yourself, the home were also on leave _ to find yourself, the home were also on leave it— to find yourself, the home were also on leave. ., ., , to find yourself, the home were also on leave. , ., , ., on leave. it looks very 'oined up to be! -- to — on leave. it looks very 'oined up to be! -- to me. h on leave. it looks very 'oined up to be! -- to me. sorry, _ on leave. it looks veryjoined up to be! -- to me. sorry, sir— on leave. it looks veryjoined up to be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. - be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. youn: be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. young when — be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. young when they _ be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. young when they put _ be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. young when they put in - be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. young when they put in place l be! -- to me. sorry, sir philip. - young when they put in place cover arrangements, they will have an acting _ arrangements, they will have an acting permanent secretary covering an absence. can acting permanent secretary covering an absence. . .., . ,, acting permanent secretary covering an absence-— an absence. can i come back to celia's and _ an absence. can i come back to celia's and of _ an absence. can i come back to celia's and of questioning. - an absence. can i come back to celia's and of questioning. i - an absence. can i come back to| celia's and of questioning. i was an absence. can i come back to - celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday— celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as — celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as well _ celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as well and _ celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as well and i _ celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as well and i didn't - celia's and of questioning. i was on holiday as well and i didn't come i holiday as well and i didn't come back— holiday as well and i didn't come back either. _ holiday as well and i didn't come back either, as _ holiday as well and i didn't come back either, as it _ holiday as well and i didn't come back either, as it happens, - holiday as well and i didn't come back either, as it happens, but. holiday as well and i didn't come back either, as it happens, but i| back either, as it happens, but i was working _ back either, as it happens, but i was working every— back either, as it happens, but i was working every day- back either, as it happens, but i was working every day as - back either, as it happens, but i was working every day as an - back either, as it happens, but i. was working every day as an extra pair of— was working every day as an extra pair of hands _ was working every day as an extra pair of hands in _ was working every day as an extra pair of hands in my— was working every day as an extra pair of hands in my office, - was working every day as an extra pair of hands in my office, not - was working every day as an extra i pair of hands in my office, not only was i _ pair of hands in my office, not only was i on _ pair of hands in my office, not only was i on zoom _ pair of hands in my office, not only was i on zoom at _ pair of hands in my office, not only was i on zoom at meetings - pair of hands in my office, not only was i on zoom at meetings with. pair of hands in my office, not only. was i on zoom at meetings with this committee — was i on zoom at meetings with this committee but — was i on zoom at meetings with this committee but with _ was i on zoom at meetings with this committee but with the _ was i on zoom at meetings with this committee but with the foreign - committee but with the foreign secretary. _ committee but with the foreign secretary. the _ committee but with the foreign secretary, the defence - committee but with the foreign . secretary, the defence secretary. i'm secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure _ secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure you — secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure you did _ secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure you did that— secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure you did that too, - secretary, the defence secretary. i'm sure you did that too, not- i'm sure you did that too, not suggesting _ i'm sure you did that too, not suggesting you _ i'm sure you did that too, not suggesting you didn't. - i'm sure you did that too, not suggesting you didn't. but. i'm sure you did that too, not| suggesting you didn't. but we i'm sure you did that too, not- suggesting you didn't. but we spent a lot suggesting you didn't. but we spent a tot of— suggesting you didn't. but we spent a tot of time — suggesting you didn't. but we spent a lot of time going _ suggesting you didn't. but we spent a lot of time going through- suggesting you didn't. but we spenti a lot of time going through requests for people _ a lot of time going through requests for peopte who _ a lot of time going through requests for people who needed _ a lot of time going through requests for people who needed help, - a lot of time going through requests. for people who needed help, hundreds and hundreds, — for people who needed help, hundreds and hundreds, which— for people who needed help, hundreds and hundreds, which involved - and hundreds, which involved thousands— and hundreds, which involved thousands and _ and hundreds, which involved thousands and thousands - and hundreds, which involved thousands and thousands of i and hundreds, which involved - thousands and thousands of people must the _ thousands and thousands of people must the home _ thousands and thousands of people must the home office, _ thousands and thousands of people must the home office, the - thousands and thousands of people must the home office, the arap . must the home office, the arap scheme, — must the home office, the arap scheme, the _ must the home office, the arap scheme, the foreign— must the home office, the arap scheme, the foreign office, - must the home office, the arapi scheme, the foreign office, which must the home office, the arap - scheme, the foreign office, which we received _ scheme, the foreign office, which we received few— scheme, the foreign office, which we received few if— scheme, the foreign office, which we received few if any— scheme, the foreign office, which we received few if any replies _ scheme, the foreign office, which we received few if any replies from. - received few if any replies from. any evidence _ received few if any replies from. any evidence we _ received few if any replies from. any evidence we have _ received few if any replies from. any evidence we have had - received few if any replies from. i any evidence we have had passed received few if any replies from. - any evidence we have had passed to us today— any evidence we have had passed to us today suggested _ any evidence we have had passed to us today suggested a _ any evidence we have had passed to us today suggested a lot _ any evidence we have had passed to us today suggested a lot of - any evidence we have had passed to us today suggested a lot of those i us today suggested a lot of those e-maits _ us today suggested a lot of those e-maits went— us today suggested a lot of those e—mails went completely - us today suggested a lot of those . e—mails went completely unopened us today suggested a lot of those - e—mails went completely unopened or unanswered — e—mails went completely unopened or unanswered i'm — e—mails went completely unopened or unanswered. i'm still— e—mails went completely unopened or unanswered. i'm still being _ unanswered. i'm still being contacted _ unanswered. i'm still being contacted now— unanswered. i'm still being contacted now as _ unanswered. i'm still being contacted now as a - unanswered. i'm still being - contacted now as a constituency mp try peopte _ contacted now as a constituency mp by peopte that — contacted now as a constituency mp by people that asked _ contacted now as a constituency mp by people that asked for— contacted now as a constituency mp by people that asked for help - contacted now as a constituency mp by people that asked for help and l by people that asked for help and they are — by people that asked for help and they are still— by people that asked for help and they are still waiting _ by people that asked for help and they are still waiting for- by people that asked for help and they are still waiting for help. - they are still waiting for help. that— they are still waiting for help. that may— they are still waiting for help. that may well _ they are still waiting for help. that may well now— they are still waiting for help. that may well now discover. they are still waiting for help. i that may well now discover from they are still waiting for help. - that may well now discover from this evidence _ that may well now discover from this evidence that — that may well now discover from this evidence that people _ that may well now discover from this evidence that people in— that may well now discover from this evidence that people in the _ that may well now discover from this evidence that people in the foreign l evidence that people in the foreign office _ evidence that people in the foreign office didn't — evidence that people in the foreign office didn't even _ evidence that people in the foreign office didn't even open _ evidence that people in the foreign office didn't even open their- office didn't even open their e-mait _ office didn't even open their e-mait how— office didn't even open their e—mail. how many- office didn't even open their e—mail. how many of- office didn't even open their e—mail. how many of those i office didn't even open their- e—mail. how many of those unopened e-maits _ e—mail. how many of those unopened e-maits exist — e—mail. how many of those unopened e—mails exist and _ e—mail. how many of those unopened e—mails exist and how _ e—mail. how many of those unopened e—mails exist and how many - e—mail. how many of those unopened e—mails exist and how many of - e—mail. how many of those unopened e—mails exist and how many of those i e—mails exist and how many of those people _ e—mails exist and how many of those peopte have — e—mails exist and how many of those peopte have not _ e—mails exist and how many of those people have not even _ e—mails exist and how many of those people have not even had _ e—mails exist and how many of those people have not even had their- e—mails exist and how many of those people have not even had their cases tooked _ people have not even had their cases looked at? _ people have not even had their cases looked at? so. — people have not even had their cases looked at? ., , ., looked at? so, as i said earlier, we took the decision _ looked at? so, as i said earlier, we took the decision to _ looked at? so, as i said earlier, we took the decision to prioritise - looked at? so, as i said earlier, we took the decision to prioritise and l took the decision to prioritise and identify people for evacuation rather than reply. we are looking at what contingencies we might be able to put in place if we receive a similar volume. we believe we have replied to every member of parliament, if that is not the case, please do let us know and we will send replies to all the separate correspondence we have had not from members of parliament, but i recognise it will have made mistakes and we would be grateful —— but we are grateful for the collaboration we have had throughout the period, we have had throughout the period, we have had throughout the period, we have tried our best to provide every —— information to everyone who has approached either you or us. i’m has approached either you or us. i'm not suggesting —— are you suggesting everyone _ not suggesting —— are you suggesting everyone who — not suggesting —— are you suggesting everyone who contacted _ not suggesting —— are you suggesting everyone who contacted you - not suggesting —— are you suggesting everyone who contacted you receive i not suggesting —— are you suggesting| everyone who contacted you receive a reply? _ everyone who contacted you receive a rel ? , , everyone who contacted you receive a re .l ? , , ., everyone who contacted you receive a rel ? , , ., ., , reply? depending on what they were askin: for. reply? depending on what they were asking for- if — reply? depending on what they were asking for. if it _ reply? depending on what they were asking for. if it was _ reply? depending on what they were asking for. if it was somebody - reply? depending on what they were asking for. if it was somebody who i asking for. if it was somebody who was contacting us under the arap scheme, it was under the special cases and leave to remain arrangements which the home office lead on, but would have gone to the home office for them to deal with. hundreds of thousands of people who may have _ hundreds of thousands of people who may have qualified _ hundreds of thousands of people who may have qualified to _ hundreds of thousands of people who may have qualified to leave _ hundreds of thousands of people who may have qualified to leave did - hundreds of thousands of people who may have qualified to leave did not i may have qualified to leave did not or didn't _ may have qualified to leave did not or didn't have — may have qualified to leave did not or didn't have the _ may have qualified to leave did not or didn't have the cases _ may have qualified to leave did not or didn't have the cases looked - may have qualified to leave did not or didn't have the cases looked at, | or didn't have the cases looked at, perhaps _ or didn't have the cases looked at, perhaps. who— or didn't have the cases looked at, perhaps. who authorised - or didn't have the cases looked at, perhaps. who authorised the - perhaps. who authorised the prioritising _ perhaps. who authorised the prioritising of— perhaps. who authorised the prioritising of animals - perhaps. who authorised the prioritising of animals over. perhaps. who authorised the - prioritising of animals over people? there _ prioritising of animals over people? there was— prioritising of animals over people? there was no— prioritising of animals over people? there was no prioritisation - prioritising of animals over people? there was no prioritisation of - there was no prioritisation of animals over people. who there was no prioritisation of animals over people. who took the decision, then, _ animals over people. who took the decision, then, to _ animals over people. who took the decision, then, to evacuate - animals over people. who took the | decision, then, to evacuate animals over people? — decision, then, to evacuate animals over purple?— over people? there was no decision to evacuate — over people? there was no decision to evacuate animals _ over people? there was no decision to evacuate animals over— over people? there was no decision to evacuate animals over people. i to evacuate animals over people. how, then, dead animals evacuate before _ how, then, dead animals evacuate before some — how, then, dead animals evacuate before some people? _ how, then, dead animals evacuate before some people? i’m“ - how, then, dead animals evacuate before some people?— before some people? i'm not sure that's right _ before some people? i'm not sure that's right in _ before some people? i'm not sure that's right in terms _ before some people? i'm not sure that's right in terms of _ before some people? i'm not sure that's right in terms of timing - before some people? i'm not sure| that's right in terms of timing stop nigel might want to come in. but there was a chartered flight arranged for animals, we enabled that chartered flight. but there was no prioritisation of animals over people. no prioritisation of animals over --eole. �* ., ., no prioritisation of animals over --eole. �* ., . ., people. but how did that get through if it wasn't using _ people. but how did that get through if it wasn't using british _ people. but how did that get through if it wasn't using british troops - if it wasn't using british troops and resources? _ if it wasn't using british troops and resources?— if it wasn't using british troops and resources? ., ., if it wasn't using british troops and resources? ., , ., ., ., and resources? nigel, do you want to to and resources? nigel, do you want to no throu~h and resources? nigel, do you want to go through the _ and resources? nigel, do you want to go through the detail _ and resources? nigel, do you want to go through the detail of _ and resources? nigel, do you want to go through the detail of this - and resources? nigel, do you want to go through the detail of this case? i go through the detail of this case? just to confirm what was said, there just to confirm what was said, there was no _ just to confirm what was said, there was no prioritisation of animals over— was no prioritisation of animals over people. the animals were flown out on _ over people. the animals were flown out on a _ over people. the animals were flown out on a charter flight, chartered by an— out on a charter flight, chartered by an organisation on the flight which _ by an organisation on the flight which left only after we had concluded that evacuating people and at that _ concluded that evacuating people and at that stage at the airport, it was only uk_ at that stage at the airport, it was only uk military who were left, and they were _ only uk military who were left, and they were providing assistance to make _ they were providing assistance to make sure — they were providing assistance to make sure the charter flight got out, _ make sure the charter flight got out, then— make sure the charter flight got out, then they left themselves. may i 'ust out, then they left themselves. may i just asked. — out, then they left themselves. may ijust asked, following up on that, how much— ijust asked, following up on that, how much staff _ ijust asked, following up on that, how much staff time _ ijust asked, following up on that, how much staff time with - ijust asked, following up on that, how much staff time with that - ijust asked, following up on that, i how much staff time with that take up how much staff time with that take up to— how much staff time with that take up to handle — how much staff time with that take up to handle that _ how much staff time with that take up to handle that process? - how much staff time with that take up to handle that process? i- how much staff time with that take up to handle that process?- up to handle that process? i don't know. did up to handle that process? i don't know did it _ up to handle that process? i don't know. did it take _ up to handle that process? i don't know. did it take up _ up to handle that process? i don't know. did it take up staff - up to handle that process? i don't know. did it take up staff time - up to handle that process? i don'tl know. did it take up staff time that could be used _ know. did it take up staff time that could be used for— know. did it take up staff time that could be used for anything - know. did it take up staff time that could be used for anything else? . know. did it take up staff time that could be used for anything else? i | could be used for anything else? i don't could be used for anything else? don't know how much staff time could be used for anything else?“ don't know how much staff time it took up. don't know how much staff time it took u -. ., . don't know how much staff time it tooku. ., . , , took up. you have been telling us there were _ took up. you have been telling us there were limited _ took up. you have been telling us there were limited resources - took up. you have been telling us there were limited resources so i took up. you have been telling us i there were limited resources so i'm curious— there were limited resources so i'm curious as _ there were limited resources so i'm curious as to — there were limited resources so i'm curious as to how— there were limited resources so i'm curious as to how much _ there were limited resources so i'm curious as to how much staff- there were limited resources so i'm curious as to how much staff time i there were limited resources so i'm| curious as to how much staff time it took up _ curious as to how much staff time it took u -. curious as to how much staff time it tooku. ., ., ., , took up. the evacuation of people had ended by _ took up. the evacuation of people had ended by the _ took up. the evacuation of people had ended by the time _ took up. the evacuation of people had ended by the time that - took up. the evacuation of people had ended by the time that flight | had ended by the time that flight took place. had ended by the time that flight took lace. ., ., ., ., took place. could the evacuation of --eole took place. could the evacuation of people have _ took place. could the evacuation of people have been _ took place. could the evacuation of people have been continued - took place. could the evacuation of people have been continued for- took place. could the evacuation of people have been continued for a l people have been continued for a few hours? _ people have been continued for a few hours? ., , , , ., hours? no, because the period in which we were _ hours? no, because the period in which we were allowed _ hours? no, because the period in which we were allowed to - hours? no, because the period in. which we were allowed to evacuate people had come to an end, there were very clear timelines set for how the evacuation period would end and move to a new phase of withdrawal.— and move to a new phase of withdrawal. ~ . . ., ., ., withdrawal. according to whom? sor ? withdrawal. according to whom? sorry? according _ withdrawal. according to whom? sorry? according to _ withdrawal. according to whom? sorry? according to who - withdrawal. according to whom? sorry? according to who had - withdrawal. according to whom? sorry? according to who had the| sorry? according to who had the timeline ended? _ sorry? according to who had the timeline ended? there - sorry? according to who had the timeline ended? there was - sorry? according to who had the timeline ended? there was a - sorry? according to who had the i timeline ended? there was a very clear timelines, _ timeline ended? there was a very clear timelines, the _ timeline ended? there was a very clear timelines, the us _ timeline ended? there was a very clear timelines, the us military i clear timelines, the us military were also involved, and i'm working backwards from the deadline for a completion of the overall withdrawal, working but that was the last point at which people could be evacuated, but nigel, if you can go through that in a bit more detail? yes, so pga hq were in charge of yes, so pga ho were in charge of evacuation — yes, so pga ho were in charge of evacuation. they advised us of in the tast— evacuation. they advised us of in the last available flights were to take out — the last available flights were to take out civilians, and sarah laurie hetped _ take out civilians, and sarah laurie helped evacuate civilians. —— sir laurie _ helped evacuate civilians. —— sir laurie bristow. thereafter the only british— laurie bristow. thereafter the only british military flights were to take _ british military flights were to take out— british military flights were to take out our own soldiers. so there was no extra _ take out our own soldiers. so there was no extra staff _ take out our own soldiers. so there was no extra staff time or- take out our own soldiers. so there was no extra staff time or military. was no extra staff time or military time or any extra resource at all used for the evacuation for the animal contingent? the permission for the charter _ animal contingent? the permission for the charter had _ animal contingent? the permission for the charter had to _ animal contingent? the permission for the charter had to be _ animal contingent? the permission for the charter had to be sought. animal contingent? the permission| for the charter had to be sought and supported _ for the charter had to be sought and supported by our ministry of defence, to get the charter permission to fly out, but it didn't detract _ permission to fly out, but it didn't detract from the operation that we had run _ detract from the operation that we had run to— detract from the operation that we had run to evacuate. you detract from the operation that we had run to evacuate.— had run to evacuate. you can understand _ had run to evacuate. you can understand where _ had run to evacuate. you can understand where i'm - had run to evacuate. you can understand where i'm going l had run to evacuate. you can - understand where i'm going with this. if the gates were able to be opened to let another group through, whatever that group contained, could it not have been opened to let through, for example, the five—year—old son of the interpreter i was trying to get out? i i was trying to get out? i understand why you are asking the question — understand why you are asking the question. we operate on the basis of advice _ question. we operate on the basis of advice coming quite rightly from pjho. _ advice coming quite rightly from pjho, who were running the military evacuation, — pjho, who were running the military evacuation, the fights on which we depended — evacuation, the fights on which we depended to get civilians out, afghans, _ depended to get civilians out, afghans, british nationals and ourselves, and we followed their instructions and took people out on the timetable they gave us. i don't believe _ the timetable they gave us. idon't believe it— the timetable they gave us. i don't believe it was possible that anybody else could have been evacuated, it was not _ else could have been evacuated, it was not going on specific charter ftight, _ was not going on specific charter flight, which is not a uk flight. as far as i flight, which is not a uk flight. is far as i understand from having spoken to the military command on the ground and indeed the then pjhq commander, the principal obstacle to the evacuation was not air capacity but the ability to get people onto the airhead and process people, is that correct?— the airhead and process people, is that correct? well, the reason that we ended the _ that correct? well, the reason that we ended the evacuation _ that correct? well, the reason that we ended the evacuation when - that correct? well, the reason that we ended the evacuation when we | that correct? well, the reason that i we ended the evacuation when we did was that— we ended the evacuation when we did was that our— we ended the evacuation when we did was that our efforts to negotiate extra _ was that our efforts to negotiate extra time, the americans had led with the _ extra time, the americans had led with the taliban, did not succeed. we hope — with the taliban, did not succeed. we hope to— with the taliban, did not succeed. we hope to the evacuation could run on for— we hope to the evacuation could run on for days— we hope to the evacuation could run on for days more but the taliban did not agree _ on for days more but the taliban did not agree to — on for days more but the taliban did not agree to that, that's why the evacuation — not agree to that, that's why the evacuation ended when it did foot of the uk _ evacuation ended when it did foot of the uk military had to leave before the uk military had to leave before the us— the uk military had to leave before the us military, and that's the basis — the us military, and that's the basis on — the us military, and that's the basis on which these decisions were taken _ basis on which these decisions were taken i_ basis on which these decisions were taken. . ., basis on which these decisions were taken. , . ., �* , basis on which these decisions were taken. , . ., �*, ., taken. i understand, that's not . uite taken. i understand, that's not cuite the taken. i understand, that's not quite the answer _ taken. i understand, that's not quite the answer to _ taken. i understand, that's not quite the answer to the - taken. i understand, that's not i quite the answer to the question taken. i understand, that's not. quite the answer to the question i ask. am i right that the constraints were to do with the ability to enter the safe area of the airhead and the ability to process people? that the safe area of the airhead and the ability to process people?— ability to process people? that was one of the constraints, _ ability to process people? that was one of the constraints, but - ability to process people? that was one of the constraints, but sir- one of the constraints, but sir laurie — one of the constraints, but sir laurie bristow may wish to speak to that question. | laurie bristow may wish to speak to that question-— that question. i think we all left kabul thinking _ that question. i think we all left kabul thinking about _ that question. i think we all left kabul thinking about the - that question. i think we all lefti kabul thinking about the people that question. i think we all left - kabul thinking about the people that we were _ kabul thinking about the people that we were not— kabul thinking about the people that we were not able _ kabul thinking about the people that we were not able to _ kabul thinking about the people that we were not able to get _ kabul thinking about the people that we were not able to get out, - kabul thinking about the people that we were not able to get out, and - we were not able to get out, and that's— we were not able to get out, and that's natural— we were not able to get out, and that's natural in _ we were not able to get out, and that's natural in the _ we were not able to get out, and . that's natural in the circumstances. it that's natural in the circumstances. it might— that's natural in the circumstances. it might help — that's natural in the circumstances. it might help the _ that's natural in the circumstances. it might help the committee - that's natural in the circumstances. it might help the committee if- that's natural in the circumstances. it might help the committee if i - it might help the committee if i talked — it might help the committee if i talked a — it might help the committee if i talked a little _ it might help the committee if i talked a little bit _ it might help the committee if i talked a little bit about - it might help the committee if i talked a little bit about some i it might help the committee if ii talked a little bit about some of the constraints _ talked a little bit about some of the constraints in _ talked a little bit about some of the constraints in the _ talked a little bit about some of the constraints in the final- talked a little bit about some of| the constraints in the final days, and i_ the constraints in the final days, and i think— the constraints in the final days, and i think it— the constraints in the final days, and i think it will— the constraints in the final days, and i think it will help— the constraints in the final days, and i think it will help to - the constraints in the final days, and i think it will help to answer| and i think it will help to answer the question _ and i think it will help to answer the question. so _ and i think it will help to answer the question. so first _ and i think it will help to answer the question. so first of- and i think it will help to answer the question. so first of all, - and i think it will help to answer the question. so first of all, you are right — the question. so first of all, you are right in _ the question. so first of all, you are right in the _ the question. so first of all, you are right in the sense _ the question. so first of all, you are right in the sense that - the question. so first of all, you are right in the sense that therei are right in the sense that there was an— are right in the sense that there was an increasingly— are right in the sense that there was an increasingly compelling i was an increasingly compelling constraint— was an increasingly compelling constraint in— was an increasingly compelling constraint in our— was an increasingly compelling constraint in our ability- was an increasingly compelling constraint in our ability to - was an increasingly compelling constraint in our ability to geti constraint in our ability to get people — constraint in our ability to get peopte through _ constraint in our ability to get people through the _ constraint in our ability to get people through the system, i constraint in our ability to get. people through the system, so through— people through the system, so through the _ people through the system, so through the system _ people through the system, so through the system and - people through the system, so through the system and onto i people through the system, so i through the system and onto the airfield — through the system and onto the airfield we _ through the system and onto the airfield. we had _ through the system and onto the airfield. we had to— through the system and onto the airfield. we had to close - through the system and onto the airfield. we had to close it- through the system and onto the airfield. we had to close it in- airfield. we had to close it in short— airfield. we had to close it in short order, _ airfield. we had to close it in short order, move _ airfield. we had to close it in short order, move our- airfield. we had to close it in short order, move our staff. airfield. we had to close it in. short order, move our staff and airfield. we had to close it in- short order, move our staff and the remaining _ short order, move our staff and the remaining peopte _ short order, move our staff and the remaining people in— short order, move our staff and the remaining people in the _ short order, move our staff and the remaining people in the queue - short order, move our staff and the i remaining people in the queue onto the airport— remaining people in the queue onto the airport to — remaining people in the queue onto the airport to a _ remaining people in the queue onto the airport to a back—up _ remaining people in the queue onto the airport to a back—up location . the airport to a back—up location that we — the airport to a back—up location that we had _ the airport to a back—up location that we had to _ the airport to a back—up location that we had to try— the airport to a back—up location that we had to try and _ the airport to a back—up location that we had to try and process i the airport to a back—up location - that we had to try and process them through _ that we had to try and process them through. another— that we had to try and process them through. another factor— that we had to try and process them through. another factor in _ that we had to try and process them through. another factor in play- that we had to try and process them through. another factor in play herei through. another factor in play here was that— through. another factor in play here was that the — through. another factor in play here was that the taliban _ through. another factor in play here was that the taliban themselves - through. another factor in play here i was that the taliban themselves were becoming _ was that the taliban themselves were becoming increasingly, _ was that the taliban themselves were becoming increasingly, to— was that the taliban themselves were becoming increasingly, to say- was that the taliban themselves were becoming increasingly, to say the - becoming increasingly, to say the least, _ becoming increasingly, to say the least, uncooperative _ becoming increasingly, to say the least, uncooperative about - becoming increasingly, to say the| least, uncooperative about letting people _ least, uncooperative about letting peopte come _ least, uncooperative about letting people come forward _ least, uncooperative about letting people come forward to _ least, uncooperative about letting people come forward to the - least, uncooperative about letting | people come forward to the fullest -- diff— people come forward to the fullest -- diff vicinity— people come forward to the fullest —— diff vicinity of _ people come forward to the fullest —— diff vicinity of the _ people come forward to the fullest —— diff vicinity of the water - people come forward to the fullest —— diff vicinity of the water onto i —— diff vicinity of the water onto the the — —— diff vicinity of the water onto the the number— —— diff vicinity of the water onto the the number of— —— diff vicinity of the water onto the the number of gates - —— diff vicinity of the water onto the the number of gates was i —— diff vicinity of the water onto - the the number of gates was closing down _ the the number of gates was closing down partly— the the number of gates was closing down partly as— the the number of gates was closing down partly as a _ the the number of gates was closing down partly as a of— the the number of gates was closing down partly as a of that _ the the number of gates was closing down partly as a of that and - the the number of gates was closing down partly as a of that and partly . down partly as a of that and partly as the _ down partly as a of that and partly as the americans _ down partly as a of that and partly as the americans took _ down partly as a of that and partly as the americans took their- down partly as a of that and partly as the americans took their own l as the americans took their own decisions — as the americans took their own decisions on _ as the americans took their own decisions on that. _ as the americans took their own decisions on that. and _ as the americans took their own decisions on that. and of- as the americans took their own decisions on that. and of coursei as the americans took their own i decisions on that. and of course as nigel— decisions on that. and of course as nigel has _ decisions on that. and of course as nigel has explained, _ decisions on that. and of course as nigel has explained, there - decisions on that. and of course as nigel has explained, there was- decisions on that. and of course as nigel has explained, there was a l nigel has explained, there was a sequencing — nigel has explained, there was a sequencing that _ nigel has explained, there was a sequencing that needed - nigel has explained, there was a sequencing that needed to - nigel has explained, there was a sequencing that needed to be i sequencing that needed to be followed. _ sequencing that needed to be followed. to _ sequencing that needed to be followed, to safely— sequencing that needed to be followed, to safely close - sequencing that needed to bei followed, to safely close down sequencing that needed to be - followed, to safely close down the operation, — followed, to safely close down the operation, get— followed, to safely close down the operation, get our— followed, to safely close down the operation, get our military- followed, to safely close down the operation, get our military and - operation, get our military and civitiah— operation, get our military and civilian staff— operation, get our military and civilian staff out, _ operation, get our military and civilian staff out, which - operation, get our military and civilian staff out, which with i operation, get our military andl civilian staff out, which with the coorieratiori. _ civilian staff out, which with the cooperation, very _ civilian staff out, which with the cooperation, very active - civilian staff out, which with the - cooperation, very active cooperation of the _ cooperation, very active cooperation of the brigadier— cooperation, very active cooperation of the brigadier on _ cooperation, very active cooperation of the brigadier on the _ cooperation, very active cooperation of the brigadier on the ground, - cooperation, very active cooperation of the brigadier on the ground, we l of the brigadier on the ground, we managed — of the brigadier on the ground, we managed to— of the brigadier on the ground, we managed to squeeze _ of the brigadier on the ground, we managed to squeeze that - of the brigadier on the ground, we . managed to squeeze that timetable, but within— managed to squeeze that timetable, but within the — managed to squeeze that timetable, but within the parameters _ managed to squeeze that timetable, but within the parameters of- managed to squeeze that timetable, but within the parameters of the - but within the parameters of the possible — but within the parameters of the possible as _ but within the parameters of the possible. as far— but within the parameters of the possible. as far as, _ but within the parameters of the possible. as far as, did - but within the parameters of the possible. as far as, did the - possible. as far as, did the operation _ possible. as far as, did the operation around _ possible. as far as, did the operation around the - possible. as far as, did the . operation around the animals displaced _ operation around the animals displaced people? _ operation around the animals displaced people? i- operation around the animals displaced people? i have - operation around the animals - displaced people? i have checked this with — displaced people? i have checked this with the _ displaced people? i have checked this with the command _ displaced people? i have checked this with the command on - displaced people? i have checked this with the command on the - displaced people? i have checked - this with the command on the ground and his— this with the command on the ground and his take — this with the command on the ground and his take is, — this with the command on the ground and his take is, it— this with the command on the ground and his take is, it is— this with the command on the ground and his take is, it is the _ this with the command on the ground and his take is, it is the same - this with the command on the ground and his take is, it is the same as - and his take is, it is the same as mine, _ and his take is, it is the same as mine, that— and his take is, it is the same as mine, that no _ and his take is, it is the same as mine, that no aeroplane - and his take is, it is the same as mine, that no aeroplane failed . and his take is, it is the same as| mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or— mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or take _ mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or take off— mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or take off because - mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or take off because of- mine, that no aeroplane failed to land or take off because of that. land or take off because of that chatter— land or take off because of that charter flight, _ land or take off because of that charter flight, and _ land or take off because of that charter flight, and nobody- land or take off because of that. charter flight, and nobody would have _ charter flight, and nobody would have got— charter flight, and nobody would have got through _ charter flight, and nobody would have got through the _ charter flight, and nobody would have got through the system - charter flight, and nobody wouldi have got through the system but charter flight, and nobody would - have got through the system but did not because — have got through the system but did not because of— have got through the system but did not because of this _ have got through the system but did not because of this decision - have got through the system but did not because of this decision to - not because of this decision to facilitate — not because of this decision to facilitate the _ not because of this decision to facilitate the animals - not because of this decision to facilitate the animals onto - not because of this decision to facilitate the animals onto the | facilitate the animals onto the airfield — facilitate the animals onto the airfield. ~ ., , facilitate the animals onto the airfield. ., , facilitate the animals onto the airfield. ~ ., , facilitate the animals onto the airfield. ., , ., ., airfield. apologies, you said no-one else would have _ airfield. apologies, you said no-one else would have made _ airfield. apologies, you said no-one else would have made it _ airfield. apologies, you said no-one else would have made it through - airfield. apologies, you said no-one| else would have made it through the system, but british soldiers went out, open the gates, got these animals into the airport, and made sure they made it onto the aeroplane. we have lots of planes, so those soldiers actually instead could have been sifting through applications for tens of thousands still outside the hotel and i know because my friends and family were still outside, my friends and their family outside and they couldn't get in, surely the soldiers could have been processing those individuals? we know soldiers were processing people for people to go home, people who had permission. so how, with all those soldiers processing animals, how were they being delayed from not focusing on processing people instead? clearly planes were allowed to take off, we clearly had a british thing, they soldiers could have been sifting those people who had permission to go and getting them onto a plane. ma; had permission to go and getting them onto a plane. my understanding is that the issue _ them onto a plane. my understanding is that the issue in _ them onto a plane. my understanding is that the issue in the _ them onto a plane. my understanding is that the issue in the final _ them onto a plane. my understanding is that the issue in the final few - is that the issue in the final few days— is that the issue in the final few days was— is that the issue in the final few days was not— is that the issue in the final few days was not planes _ is that the issue in the final few days was not planes of- is that the issue in the final few| days was not planes of capacity. exactty~ — days was not planes of capacity. exactly. that's _ days was not planes of capacity. exactly. that's exactly - days was not planes of capacity. exactly. that's exactly my- days was not planes of capacity. | exactly. that's exactly my point. capacity was with soldiers and sorting people to get them onto planes so i'm arguing those soldiers who were escorting animals could have been sorting people and getting them onto planes. i’m have been sorting people and getting them onto planes.— them onto planes. i'm not sure that them onto planes. i'm not sure that the trade-off _ them onto planes. i'm not sure that the trade-off is _ them onto planes. i'm not sure that the trade-off is that _ them onto planes. i'm not sure that the trade-off is that simple. - them onto planes. i'm not sure that the trade-off is that simple. what l the trade-off is that simple. what is the trade _ the trade-off is that simple. what is the trade of? _ the trade-off is that simple. what is the trade of? why _ the trade—off is that simple. is the trade of? why couldn't we done more? what was the bureaucratic problem that stopped this? in the problem that stopped this? in the final da s problem that stopped this? in the final days of _ problem that stopped this? in the final days of the _ problem that stopped this? in the final days of the evacuation, - problem that stopped this? in the final days of the evacuation, the l final days of the evacuation, the period _ final days of the evacuation, the period from _ final days of the evacuation, the period from the _ final days of the evacuation, the period from the attack— final days of the evacuation, the period from the attack on - final days of the evacuation, the period from the attack on the i final days of the evacuation, the i period from the attack on the hotel through— period from the attack on the hotel through to — period from the attack on the hotel through to closing _ period from the attack on the hotel through to closing the _ period from the attack on the hotel through to closing the operation, . through to closing the operation, think— through to closing the operation, think about — through to closing the operation, think about 4000 _ through to closing the operation, think about 4000 people - through to closing the operation, think about 4000 people came l through to closing the operation, - think about 4000 people came through the system _ think about 4000 people came through the system it— think about 4000 people came through the system it was— think about 4000 people came through the system. it was essentially - the system. it was essentially conrpteting _ the system. it was essentially completing the _ the system. it was essentially completing the queue - the system. it was essentially completing the queue of- the system. it was essentially l completing the queue of people the system. it was essentially - completing the queue of people that we had _ completing the queue of people that we had. . , ., completing the queue of people that we had. ., ., .., , ., ., we had. there was no completion of the queue- — we had. there was no completion of the queue- of _ we had. there was no completion of the queue. of course _ we had. there was no completion of the queue. of course there - we had. there was no completion of the queue. of course there was, - we had. there was no completion ofi the queue. of course there was, but it was the completion _ the queue. of course there was, but it was the completion of _ the queue. of course there was, but it was the completion of the - the queue. of course there was, but it was the completion of the people | it was the completion of the people who were _ it was the completion of the people who were in — it was the completion of the people who were in the _ it was the completion of the people who were in the system _ it was the completion of the people who were in the system at - it was the completion of the people who were in the system at that - who were in the system at that stage — who were in the system at that stage it— who were in the system at that stage it i_ who were in the system at that stage. if i could _ who were in the system at that stage. if i could just— who were in the system at that stage. if i could just spell- who were in the system at that stage. if i could just spell out i stage. if i could just spell out what — stage. if i could just spell out what happened, _ stage. if i could just spell out what happened, we _ stage. if i could just spell out what happened, we had - stage. if i could just spell out what happened, we had the l stage. if i could just spell out - what happened, we had the attack on the gate _ what happened, we had the attack on the gate outside _ what happened, we had the attack on the gate outside the _ what happened, we had the attack on the gate outside the hotel, _ what happened, we had the attack on the gate outside the hotel, we - the gate outside the hotel, we had to be _ the gate outside the hotel, we had to be essentially— the gate outside the hotel, we had to be essentially close _ the gate outside the hotel, we had to be essentially close down - the gate outside the hotel, we had to be essentially close down the i to be essentially close down the hotel— to be essentially close down the hotel evacuation _ to be essentially close down the hotel evacuation centre, - to be essentially close down the hotel evacuation centre, we - to be essentially close down the hotel evacuation centre, we had to be essentially close down the . hotel evacuation centre, we had to move _ hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out — hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out the — hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out the staff, _ hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out the staff, move - hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out the staff, move out- hotel evacuation centre, we had to move out the staff, move out to l move out the staff, move out to people _ move out the staff, move out to peopte who _ move out the staff, move out to peopte who had _ move out the staff, move out to people who had been _ move out the staff, move out to people who had been processed| people who had been processed and were in— people who had been processed and were in the — people who had been processed and were in the processing, _ people who had been processed and were in the processing, we - people who had been processed and were in the processing, we had - people who had been processed and were in the processing, we had to l were in the processing, we had to relocate _ were in the processing, we had to relocate them _ were in the processing, we had to relocate them onto _ were in the processing, we had to relocate them onto the _ were in the processing, we had to relocate them onto the airfield . were in the processing, we had to relocate them onto the airfield to| were in the processing, we had to. relocate them onto the airfield to a very. _ relocate them onto the airfield to a very. very. — relocate them onto the airfield to a very. very. franktv, _ relocate them onto the airfield to a very, very, frankly, basic— relocate them onto the airfield to a very, very, frankly, basic back—upi very, very, frankly, basic back—up site and _ very, very, frankly, basic back—up site and complete _ very, very, frankly, basic back—up site and complete the _ very, very, frankly, basic back—up site and complete the casework. very, very, frankly, basic back—upj site and complete the casework in the time _ site and complete the casework in the time available, _ site and complete the casework in the time available, which - site and complete the casework in the time available, which by- site and complete the casework in the time available, which by that. the time available, which by that stage _ the time available, which by that stage was— the time available, which by that stage was extremely— the time available, which by that| stage was extremely constrained. the time available, which by that - stage was extremely constrained. in terms _ stage was extremely constrained. in terms of— stage was extremely constrained. in terms of the — stage was extremely constrained. in terms of the workflow, _ stage was extremely constrained. in terms of the workflow, i— stage was extremely constrained. in terms of the workflow, i can't - stage was extremely constrained. in terms of the workflow, i can't say. terms of the workflow, i can't say that with — terms of the workflow, i can't say that with certainty _ terms of the workflow, i can't say that with certainty that _ terms of the workflow, i can't say that with certainty that the - that with certainty that the soldiers _ that with certainty that the soldiers were _ that with certainty that the soldiers were actually- that with certainty that the - soldiers were actually physically moving — soldiers were actually physically moving animals, _ soldiers were actually physically moving animals, i— soldiers were actually physically moving animals, i would - soldiers were actually physically moving animals, i would need l soldiers were actually physicallyi moving animals, i would need to check— moving animals, i would need to check the — moving animals, i would need to check the facts _ moving animals, i would need to check the facts of _ moving animals, i would need to check the facts of that _ moving animals, i would need to check the facts of that to - moving animals, i would need to check the facts of that to be - check the facts of that to be perfectly— check the facts of that to be perfectly honest _ check the facts of that to be perfectly honest but - check the facts of that to be perfectly honest but it's - check the facts of that to be perfectly honest but it's not| check the facts of that to be . perfectly honest but it's not my understanding, _ perfectly honest but it's not my understanding, i— perfectly honest but it's not my understanding, i checked - perfectly honest but it's not my understanding, i checked this. perfectly honest but it's not my. understanding, i checked this with the brigadier, _ understanding, i checked this with the brigadier, is— understanding, i checked this with the brigadier, is not _ understanding, i checked this with the brigadier, is not my— the brigadier, is not my understanding - the brigadier, is not my understanding that- the brigadier, is not my. understanding that anyone the brigadier, is not my- understanding that anyone could the brigadier, is not my— understanding that anyone could have been got _ understanding that anyone could have been got out — understanding that anyone could have been got out but _ understanding that anyone could have been got out but was _ understanding that anyone could have been got out but was not _ understanding that anyone could have been got out but was not as _ understanding that anyone could have been got out but was not as a - understanding that anyone could have been got out but was not as a result l been got out but was not as a result of the _ been got out but was not as a result of the animals — been got out but was not as a result of the animals being _ been got out but was not as a result of the animals being put _ been got out but was not as a result of the animals being put onto- been got out but was not as a result of the animals being put onto the i of the animals being put onto the airfield _ i know it's painful, you have said you have reflected on your holiday, ijust you have reflected on your holiday, i just want to return to it for one question. you have effectively apologised for not coming back from holiday. what difference would it made if you had come back? that holiday. what difference would it made if you had come back? that is a aood made if you had come back? that is a good question — made if you had come back? that is a good question and _ made if you had come back? that is a good question and something - made if you had come back? that is a good question and something i - made if you had come back? that is a good question and something i have i good question and something i have reflected on. in terms of the overall response, you know, when the government response to big international crises involving multiple partners, there are different departments that need to work... but also into the centre of government where the coordination happens, and that's what happened in this case, then obviously, yes, there is a crisis structure underneath that we have talked about, i think the thing that when i reflect on this that was one of the reasons behind me what i said what is sit at the beginning, i think i should have been more visible to our people who were working on the crisis. they should have seen me visibly involved.— crisis. they should have seen me visibly involved. would it have made any difference _ visibly involved. would it have made any difference on _ visibly involved. would it have made any difference on the _ visibly involved. would it have made any difference on the ground? - visibly involved. would it have made | any difference on the ground? would it have made any difference to the people whose lives were at risk in afghanistan, and getting them out, had you been back that's the important reason for your existence, really, isn't it, in this case? i really, isn't it, in this case? i don't believe my being really, isn't it, in this case? i don't believe my being present in london as opposed to keeping in touch with the department would have changed the outcome. the number of people who were evacuated. 50. changed the outcome. the number of people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a, people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a. returning _ people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a, returning to _ people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a, returning to the _ people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a, returning to the question - people who were evacuated. so, sarah law a, returning to the question the i law a, returning to the question the chair asked you, you said you had an incomplete record, or if fact of your telephone call to the foreign secretary, why is that? i have expected an ambassador to have a pretty perfect record if they talked to the foreign secretary. as i said earlier, when i was working on the transition planning, both nigel and i saw the foreign secretary regularly several times a week. has worked through the implications of that. worked through the implications of that i_ worked through the implications of that. i don't recall having a conversation with the foreign secretary in my period from arriving in kabul _ secretary in my period from arriving in kabul to — secretary in my period from arriving in kabul to the onset of the crisis, there _ in kabul to the onset of the crisis, there was— in kabul to the onset of the crisis, there was no particular reason why i would _ there was no particular reason why i would have — there was no particular reason why i would have needed to do that. and certainty— would have needed to do that. and certainly when cobra was taking place _ certainly when cobra was taking place at — certainly when cobra was taking place at the foreign secretary would have been— place at the foreign secretary would have been on those. during the crisis _ have been on those. during the crisis itself, a small but important consideration here is that essentially, my diary was run kind of on _ essentially, my diary was run kind of on the — essentially, my diary was run kind of on the run through the day, so what _ of on the run through the day, so what i _ of on the run through the day, so what i can't — of on the run through the day, so what i can't do is go through my diary— what i can't do is go through my diary and — what i can't do is go through my diary and say that at this time on this occasion... the reason for that is that— this occasion... the reason for that is that we _ this occasion... the reason for that is that we needed to be very, very cautious— is that we needed to be very, very cautious about the numbers of people we had _ cautious about the numbers of people we had in _ cautious about the numbers of people we had in kabul. ithink cautious about the numbers of people we had in kabul. i think the cautious about the numbers of people we had in kabul. ithink the number of fcd_ we had in kabul. ithink the number of fcd diallo and border force staff was about — of fcd diallo and border force staff was about 33 in the course of the august— was about 33 in the course of the august crisis. it would have been wrong _ august crisis. it would have been wrong in — august crisis. it would have been wrong in my view to have anybody at risk in _ wrong in my view to have anybody at risk in kabut— wrong in my view to have anybody at risk in kabul who did not absolutely have to _ risk in kabul who did not absolutely have to be — risk in kabul who did not absolutely have to be there. processing people. so that— have to be there. processing people. so that i'm _ have to be there. processing people. so that i'm afraid is the answer to that _ so that i'm afraid is the answer to that it— so that i'm afraid is the answer to that. ., , �* . , so that i'm afraid is the answer to that. ., ,�* . , that. it doesn't really answer the cuestion. that. it doesn't really answer the question- for— that. it doesn't really answer the question. for the _ that. it doesn't really answer the question. for the period - that. it doesn't really answer the question. for the period of - that. it doesn't really answer the question. for the period of the i question. for the period of the start of august the 15th, i understand it was a period of intense pressure, but talking to the foreign secretary must lodge in your memory, it's not something you do every day, you can see why this committee wants to know the answer to that question, how many times did you talk to the foreign secretary? i you talk to the foreign secretary? i talked to the foreign secretary one on one. _ talked to the foreign secretary one on one, essentially, at least twice that i_ on one, essentially, at least twice that i have — on one, essentially, at least twice that i have managed to find in my diary— that i have managed to find in my diary during that period. and a number— diary during that period. and a number of— diary during that period. and a number of more times when both he and i_ number of more times when both he and i were _ number of more times when both he and i were in— number of more times when both he and i were in the so twice in the first— and i were in the so twice in the first fortnight of august before the fall of— first fortnight of august before the fall of kabul. thank you.— fall of kabul. thank you. records were left in _ fall of kabul. thank you. records were left in the _ fall of kabul. thank you. records were left in the embassy - fall of kabul. thank you. records were left in the embassy of - fall of kabul. thank you. records i were left in the embassy of afghans who had helped the british forces in the uk, why did that happen and what has been the outcome of the internal enquiry into that? birgit has been the outcome of the internal enquiry into that?— enquiry into that? shall i start with this? _ enquiry into that? shall i start with this? i — enquiry into that? shall i start with this? i think— enquiry into that? shall i start with this? i think you - enquiry into that? shall i start with this? i think you know. enquiry into that? shall i start. with this? i think you know that enquiry into that? shall i start - with this? i think you know that at the end of august when we were told papers have been seen personal information and the times newspaper shared the details of afghan families whose names we were told had been received and the kindly give us the names and we evacuated a total of 11 people within 2a hours. subsequently the time is past us details of six names, four of those in the uk, two were not. in terms of your question around the review, i commissioned a review of what happened and what lessons we should learn out of that particular aspect. lessons we should learn out of that particularaspect. it lessons we should learn out of that particular aspect. it systems containing classified information had been either removed or destroyed prior to the closure. in respect of unclassified documents, the personal data, which would have been removed or destroyed but we can't... in terms of what happened, we had a plan as we stepped down our presence and wit through it, and clearly the move to the airport to make sure there were other remove or destroy them all sensitive information, we had a team designated to do that, but because of the collapsing timescale, the time available to do that was compressed. we regret this very much and we regret that people were put at risk, but it was an uproar —— an operational mistake made under tremendous pressure. the key point for me is the last of this, — key point for me is the last of this, to — key point for me is the last of this, to say the least it is mortifying that it happened but it did happen. the journalist contacted us, i did happen. the journalist contacted us, i spoke — did happen. the journalist contacted us, i spoke to him several times to try to _ us, i spoke to him several times to try to establish exactly what information he had and how he had come _ information he had and how he had come by— information he had and how he had come by it — information he had and how he had come by it. my understanding of the information— come by it. my understanding of the information is that he was shown some _ information is that he was shown some documents by the taliban, didn't— some documents by the taliban, didn't see — some documents by the taliban, didn't see what all of them were, he certainly— didn't see what all of them were, he certainly wasn't able to pass documents themselves or anything that might be in them to us, but what _ that might be in them to us, but what he — that might be in them to us, but what he told me is that there were six names, — what he told me is that there were six names, he tried calling them all, six names, he tried calling them all. some — six names, he tried calling them all, some of them rang out, some of them _ all, some of them rang out, some of them were _ all, some of them rang out, some of them were in— all, some of them rang out, some of them were in the uk, we have established that four of the six were _ established that four of the six were in— established that four of the six were in our country, they are still in the _ were in our country, they are still in the uk, — were in our country, they are still in the uk, the othertwo were in our country, they are still in the uk, the other two names were not individuals working for us but as i understand, they had handed in cvs. as i understand, they had handed in cvs my— as i understand, they had handed in cvs. my understanding is that the people _ cvs. my understanding is that the people he — cvs. my understanding is that the people he had spoken to who are amongst — people he had spoken to who are amongst those names are him to three other people, those were among the 11 other people, those were among the it people _ other people, those were among the 11 people we got very quickly, we .ot 11 people we got very quickly, we got them — 11 people we got very quickly, we got them out, passed them through and they— got them out, passed them through and they are now in the uk. i repeat the point _ and they are now in the uk. i repeat the point that it is mortifying, personally for me and for all members of staff concerned that this happened _ members of staff concerned that this happened. butjust to members of staff concerned that this happened. but just to expand a members of staff concerned that this happened. butjust to expand a bit on the _ happened. butjust to expand a bit on the context that sir philip gave. this was— on the context that sir philip gave. this was an — on the context that sir philip gave. this was an emergency destruction of an embassy— this was an emergency destruction of an embassy at extreme speed. the destruction— an embassy at extreme speed. the destruction had been compressed twice _ destruction had been compressed twice from the best part of a week, this reflected the situation happening. it didn't start on day one _ happening. it didn't start on day one as — happening. it didn't start on day one. as part of the process of repairing _ one. as part of the process of repairing -- _ one. as part of the process of repairing —— preparing the transition to the post—nato arrangements, a lot of destruction had happened, in the previous months — had happened, in the previous months. but at the end of the day, it was— months. but at the end of the day, it was a _ months. but at the end of the day, it was a mistake. i months. but at the end of the day, it was a mistake.— it was a mistake. i have not completely _ it was a mistake. i have not completely followed - it was a mistake. i have not completely followed the - it was a mistake. i have not - completely followed the numbers it was a mistake. i have not _ completely followed the numbers that you have gone through. are there any people whose names were in those records who are still at risk in afghanistan with mccaw is everybody safely back in the uk? has afghanistan with mccaw is everybody safely back in the uk?— safely back in the uk? as far as i know, safely back in the uk? as far as i know. no- _ safely back in the uk? as far as i know, no. the _ safely back in the uk? as far as i know, no. the names— safely back in the uk? as far as i know, no. the names of- safely back in the uk? as far as i know, no. the names of the - safely back in the uk? as far as i - know, no. the names of the families who are passed _ know, no. the names of the families who are passed to _ know, no. the names of the families who are passed to us _ know, no. the names of the families who are passed to us by _ know, no. the names of the families who are passed to us by the - know, no. the names of the families who are passed to us by the times, | who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated — who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated quickly— who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated quickly in— who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated quickly in a _ who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated quickly in a matter. who are passed to us by the times, we evacuated quickly in a matter of| we evacuated quickly in a matter of days after— we evacuated quickly in a matter of days after we — we evacuated quickly in a matter of days after we had _ we evacuated quickly in a matter of days after we had that _ we evacuated quickly in a matter of days after we had that information. thank— days after we had that information. thank you — days after we had that information. thankvou~ it— days after we had that information. thank you. it shouldn't _ days after we had that information. thank you. it shouldn't really- days after we had that information. thank you. it shouldn't really be i days after we had that information. thank you. it shouldn't really be a. thank you. it shouldn't really be a lesson learned, should it? it should be an absolute fundamental if you are evacuating an embassy, you get rid of all sensitive records. was anything else of a sensitive nature in terms of computers, programmes, anything else, left behind in the embassy? irate anything else, left behind in the embass ? ~ . . embassy? we are confident that the most sensitive _ embassy? we are confident that the most sensitive material, _ embassy? we are confident that the most sensitive material, was - most sensitive material, was completely cleared out. in most sensitive material, was completely cleared out. in terms of there being — completely cleared out. in terms of there being a _ completely cleared out. in terms of there being a plan, _ completely cleared out. in terms of there being a plan, it— completely cleared out. in terms of there being a plan, it was— there being a plan, it was a five—day plan cut short to two days and then just nine hours because of the collapsing timescale, but we absolutely take seriously our responsibility is, one of the things we have done in light of this incident review is as we look at other places in the world who might need to evacuate, to be sure that we have put in place robust plans to make sure everything that needs done in terms of destroying is done so. there has been criticism from ministers and officials in other departments that officials in the embassy left so that it was left up to soldiers to process applications to soldiers to process applications to get out, what is your response to that? , , ., , to get out, what is your response to that? , , . , , to get out, what is your response to that? ,, . , , ., that? essentially, it is not the case. i mentioned _ that? essentially, it is not the case. i mentioned earlier- that? essentially, it is not the case. i mentioned earlier thatj that? essentially, it is not the i case. i mentioned earlier that we had at _ case. i mentioned earlier that we had at a — case. i mentioned earlier that we had at a peak 33 staff in the country— had at a peak 33 staff in the country that comprised of 20 fcdo staff, _ country that comprised of 20 fcdo staff, 13 _ country that comprised of 20 fcdo staff, 13 border force staff, combination of british embassy staff, _ combination of british embassy staff, rapid deployment teams who were brought in several days apart and two _ were brought in several days apart and two border force teams several days apart~ — and two border force teams several days apart. my characterisation of how things worked on the ground was very different from some of the stories— very different from some of the stories i've seen that have been in the media — stories i've seen that have been in the media i— stories i've seen that have been in the media. i described the working arrangements between us, the border force: _ arrangements between us, the border force, the _ arrangements between us, the border force, the military as something i'm proud _ force, the military as something i'm proud to— force, the military as something i'm proud to be — force, the military as something i'm proud to be associated with. what force, the military as something i'm proud to be associated with.- proud to be associated with. what is our proud to be associated with. what is your current — proud to be associated with. what is your current position _ proud to be associated with. what is your current position with _ proud to be associated with. what is your current position with regard i proud to be associated with. what is your current position with regard to | your current position with regard to afghanistan or... ? does he not know which allow the nature of the role changed in a fundamental way. we agreed he would step down as ban —— ambassador. agreed he would step down as ban -- ambassador-— ambassador. representing our interests in — ambassador. representing our interests in castan _ ambassador. representing our interests in castan and - ambassador. representing our i interests in castan and providing continuity but the job he was appointed to in effect change and he has stepped down from that role and remained working for us at the fcdo. my remained working for us at the fcdo. my final question, sir philip, there has been criticism of the lack of coordination between the foreign office, the ministry of defence, the home office, do you think if you had been back from holiday that the ability to centralise command would have been better, and do you think it should have been better? in have been better, and do you think it should have been better? in terms of chris kum — it should have been better? in terms of chris kum and _ it should have been better? in terms of chris kum and coordination, - of chris kum and coordination, that's— of chris kum and coordination, that's obviously done by the cabinet office _ that's obviously done by the cabinet office. but that's obviously done by the cabinet office. �* . , �* ., that's obviously done by the cabinet office. �* ., �* ., _ office. but it wasn't done by the cabinet office. _ office. but it wasn't done by the cabinet office. that _ office. but it wasn't done by the cabinet office. that is _ office. but it wasn't done by the cabinet office. that is where i office. but it wasn't done by the cabinet office. that is where us| office. but it wasn't done by the - cabinet office. that is where us and the ministry of defence stopped in, there were daily coordination meetings and nigel can describe how it worked, and i think we did work effectively under extreme pressure. but nigel can talk about the cross government coordination.- but nigel can talk about the cross government coordination. thank you. durinu the government coordination. thank you. during the crisis, _ government coordination. thank you. during the crisis, every _ government coordination. thank you. during the crisis, every single - during the crisis, every single morning there was a cross government senior three orfour staff morning there was a cross government senior three or four staff at a representative level chaired by other national security advisor with a deputy national security advisor. so there was very close coordination every morning, we all got the same information, and were discussing the same decisions every morning. therefore we were able to brief our respective ministers on the same basis. then within the fcdo crisis centre, we had second ease from p] hq, and to the operation in cabo, we had civilians from the mod, we had staff from the passport office, from the border force, and others who helped with call handling, so it was generally cross governmental effort, and it was one that all those who i have spoken to who were involved were proud to be part of. but it didn't work. — were proud to be part of. but it didn't work, because _ were proud to be part of. but it didn't work, because there - were proud to be part of. but it didn't work, because there is l didn't work, because there is clearly pretty public disagreement between those people you have said you were coordinating, do you have an expedition to why it didn't work? i don't except it didn't work. the experience at an official level, i cannot speakfor experience at an official level, i cannot speak for the level of experience at the short level, but extremely close working and as sir laurie has testified, of the very close relationships in very difficult circumstances in kabul itself. . , difficult circumstances in kabul itself. ., , ., ., , , itself. can i 'ust follow up very cuickl itself. can i just follow up very quickly before _ itself. can i just follow up very quickly before i _ itself. can i just follow up very quickly before i come - itself. can i just follow up very quickly before i come to - itself. can i just follow up very quickly before i come to chris. itself. can i just follow up very - quickly before i come to chris. you have spoken about how you were stretched at various points. did you ever consider employing reserves calling in former members of staff led experiences of languages related to afghanistan? yes, into the crisis centre. in to afghanistan? yes, into the crisis centre. , ., ., ., ., ., centre. in terms of augmentation to a crisis resnonse. — centre. in terms of augmentation to a crisis response, we _ centre. in terms of augmentation to a crisis response, we did _ centre. in terms of augmentation to a crisis response, we did bring - centre. in terms of augmentation to a crisis response, we did bring in i a crisis response, we did bring in some _ a crisis response, we did bring in some military personnel, not least to help _ some military personnel, not least to help with the handling of some of the correspondence and we did augment — the correspondence and we did augment also using the civil services _ augment also using the civil services civilian augmentation which we have _ services civilian augmentation which we have through hm revenue and customs. — we have through hm revenue and customs, again to bring more people to help _ customs, again to bring more people to help with— customs, again to bring more people to help with the information management and the challenge we had in that_ management and the challenge we had in that area _ management and the challenge we had in that area. yes, we did bring additionat— in that area. yes, we did bring additional people in. did anybody offer? former _ additional people in. did anybody offer? former members - additional people in. did anybody offer? former members of - additional people in. did anybody offer? former members of staff, | additional people in. did anybody . offer? former members of staff, did they offer? offer? former members of staff, did the offer? .g , they offer? nigel, whether offers from former— they offer? nigel, whether offers from former members _ they offer? nigel, whether offers from former members of- they offer? nigel, whether offers from former members of staff? | they offer? nigel, whether offers l from former members of staff? i'm not aware _ from former members of staff? i'm not aware of any. we from former members of staff? i'm not aware of any.— not aware of any. we had lots of volunteers _ not aware of any. we had lots of volunteers from _ not aware of any. we had lots of volunteers from other _ not aware of any. we had lots of. volunteers from other government departments. i volunteers from other government departments-— volunteers from other government de artments. ., , ., departments. i have been told there were offers made _ departments. i have been told there were offers made by _ departments. i have been told there were offers made by former- departments. i have been told there i were offers made by former members of staff. i were offers made by former members of staff. ., ., ., ., ., were offers made by former members ofstaff. ., ., ., ., ., , of staff. i am not aware of offers from former— of staff. i am not aware of offers from former members _ of staff. i am not aware of offers from former members of- of staff. i am not aware of offers from former members of staff, i of staff. i am not aware of offers - from former members of staff, chair man. . ~' from former members of staff, chair man. ., ~ , ., from former members of staff, chair man. . ~ y from former members of staff, chair man. ., ~ , ., from former members of staff, chair man. ., ~' , ., ., from former members of staff, chair man. ., , ., ., ., man. thank you, sorry to go back to our man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday — man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue _ man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue but _ man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue but i _ man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue but i am - man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue but i am going i man. thank you, sorry to go back to your holiday issue but i am going to| your holiday issue but i am going to if you _ your holiday issue but i am going to if you don't— your holiday issue but i am going to if you don't mind. can you tell us when _ if you don't mind. can you tell us when you — if you don't mind. can you tell us when you went on holiday? | if you don't mind. can you tell us when you went on holiday? i went on hohda when you went on holiday? i went on holida on when you went on holiday? i went on holiday on the _ when you went on holiday? i went on holiday on the 9th _ when you went on holiday? i went on holiday on the 9th of _ when you went on holiday? i went on holiday on the 9th of august. - when you went on holiday? i went on holiday on the 9th of august. just - holiday on the 9th of august. just repeat what i said... i holiday on the 9th of august. just repeat what i said. . .— holiday on the 9th of august. just repeat what i said... i have got it, ou repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't — repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't need — repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't need to _ repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't need to repeat - repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't need to repeat it. - repeat what i said... i have got it, you don't need to repeat it. i've . you don't need to repeat it. i've reflected on _ you don't need to repeat it. i've reflected on it _ you don't need to repeat it. i've reflected on it very _ you don't need to repeat it. ie: reflected on it very carefully and if i had my time again, i would have come back. it ifi had my time again, i would have come back-— come back. it sounds less credible every time — come back. it sounds less credible every time you _ come back. it sounds less credible every time you repeat _ come back. it sounds less credible every time you repeat it, - come back. it sounds less credible every time you repeat it, it - come back. it sounds less credible i every time you repeat it, it sounds platitudinous. it feels a bit sceptic— platitudinous. it feels a bit sceptic now. you are away from the ninth _ sceptic now. you are away from the ninth to— sceptic now. you are away from the ninth to the — sceptic now. you are away from the ninth to the 22nd. how much of that time of— ninth to the 22nd. how much of that time of the — ninth to the 22nd. how much of that time of the foreign secretary away? i am not _ time of the foreign secretary away? i am not going to speak for the foreign secretary on his holiday. let me explain why this matters, because — let me explain why this matters, because it — let me explain why this matters, because it is the whole of the leadership of the foreign office at the same — leadership of the foreign office at the same time. that is why this matters — the same time. that is why this matters to— the same time. that is why this matters to us, because it was just seem _ matters to us, because it was just seem axiomatic to me that if this foreign— seem axiomatic to me that if this foreign secretary is going to be a way. _ foreign secretary is going to be a way, the — foreign secretary is going to be a way, the permanent undersecretary is going _ way, the permanent undersecretary is going to _ way, the permanent undersecretary is going to be _ way, the permanent undersecretary is going to be away. —— isn't going to be away _ going to be away. —— isn't going to be away i— going to be away. -- isn't going to be awa . ., �* ~' , be away. i don't think it is true. it is quite _ be away. i don't think it is true. it is quite usual— be away. i don't think it is true. it is quite usual for— be away. i don't think it is true. it is quite usual for secretary i be away. i don't think it is true. it is quite usual for secretary ofj it is quite usual for secretary of state and premier undersecretary is to be away in periods that are normally scratching on holiday periods. in both cases there will be acting posts. periods. in both cases there will be acting posts-— periods. in both cases there will be actin: osts. ~ acting posts. when did you book your hohda acting posts. when did you book your holiday roughly? _ acting posts. when did you book your holiday roughly? was _ acting posts. when did you book your holiday roughly? was once _ acting posts. when did you book your holiday roughly? was once a - acting posts. when did you book your holiday roughly? was once a month l holiday roughly? was once a month before _ holiday roughly? was once a month before or— holiday roughly? was once a month before or was it on the 7th of august? _ before or was it on the 7th of august? |_ before or was it on the 7th of au . ust? . before or was it on the 7th of au~ust? . . , before or was it on the 7th of au~ust? ., ., , ., ., before or was it on the 7th of au~ust? . . , ., ., ., august? i am really not going into details of my _ august? i am really not going into details of my holiday _ august? i am really not going into l details of my holiday arrangements. that matters as well because if you are booking a holiday by the time it was obviously clear that there was a crisis. _ was obviously clear that there was a crisis. then— was obviously clear that there was a crisis, then that is a dereliction of duty — crisis, then that is a dereliction of duty i — crisis, then that is a dereliction of du . ., ., ., ,., , of duty. i have thought about this. i answered — of duty. i have thought about this. i answered graham _ of duty. i have thought about this. i answered graham stringer- of duty. i have thought about this. | i answered graham stringer plasma question about what the impact was and i have been honest with you in saying that i think the impact was on my colleagues. i do regret the fact that i didn't decide to come back to support them, but i don't think it affected the outcome in the terms of the people we were able to evacuate from afghanistan. the . uestion evacuate from afghanistan. the question for _ evacuate from afghanistan. the question for us _ evacuate from afghanistan. the question for us might be rather different— question for us might be rather different than the question for you. the question for us might be why on earth _ the question for us might be why on earth were _ the question for us might be why on earth were you going on holiday on the ninth, — earth were you going on holiday on the ninth, but which time we had a pretty— the ninth, but which time we had a pretty clear — the ninth, but which time we had a pretty clear idea of what was going on? ~ ., ., , on? when i went on leave, there is no inevitability _ on? when i went on leave, there is no inevitability at _ on? when i went on leave, there is no inevitability at that _ on? when i went on leave, there is no inevitability at that point - on? when i went on leave, there is no inevitability at that point that i no inevitability at that point that kabul was way too full in the period that it fell in. the best assessment can take some time still. there was no certainty over the timescale. br; no certainty over the timescale. by that time they were already talking about— that time they were already talking about 31 _ that time they were already talking about 31 days, weren't they? i don't recognise- -- — about 31 days, weren't they? i don't recognise... the _ about 31 days, weren't they? i don't recognise... the evidence _ about 31 days, weren't they? i don't recognise... the evidence given - about 31 days, weren't they? i don't recognise... the evidence given to. recognise... the evidence given to us repeatedly _ recognise... the evidence given to us repeatedly and _ recognise... the evidence given to us repeatedly and lots _ recognise... the evidence given to us repeatedly and lots of - us repeatedly and lots of organisations on the ground in afghanistan, not so much the advice being _ afghanistan, not so much the advice being given — afghanistan, not so much the advice being given by the foreign office by by lots _ being given by the foreign office by by tots of— being given by the foreign office by by lots of other organisations working — by lots of other organisations working there was that all of this is inevitability and at the outside, it was— is inevitability and at the outside, it was good for six months. that is the oint. it was good for six months. that is the point- in _ it was good for six months. that is the point- in a _ it was good for six months. that is the point. in a central— it was good for six months. that is the point. in a central assessment| it was good for six months. that is| the point. in a central assessment i think it was that afghanistan would most likely fall to the taliban. there was a great uncertainty about how quickly that might happen. this i how quickly that might happen. as i understand it, the foreign secretary went on— understand it, the foreign secretary went on holiday on the 6th of august — went on holiday on the 6th of august. so you are basically planning _ august. so you are basically planning to be away at the same time for two _ planning to be away at the same time for two weeks. i planning to be away at the same time for two weeks-— for two weeks. i am not getting into the foreign — for two weeks. i am not getting into the foreign secretary _ for two weeks. i am not getting into the foreign secretary plasma - for two weeks. i am not getting into l the foreign secretary plasma comedy for himself. ok. the foreign secretary plasma comedy for himself. , ., , , the foreign secretary plasma comedy for himself-_ -- i for himself. ok, the problem is. -- the foreign — for himself. ok, the problem is. -- the foreign secretary's _ for himself. ok, the problem is. -- the foreign secretary's holiday. - for himself. ok, the problem is. -- the foreign secretary's holiday. i i the foreign secretary's holiday. i understand your need for privacy, the problem is that any leadership structure. — the problem is that any leadership structure, and the problem is that any leadership structure, ., ., ., . structure, and one on which the uk de-ends structure, and one on which the uk depends absently _ structure, and one on which the uk depends absently for _ structure, and one on which the uk depends absently for its _ structure, and one on which the uk depends absently for its security, l depends absently for its security, the concern is that if both leaders are out of the country at the same time, it does raise some very serious concerns. it may not be the actually you would have had a substantive difference on this incident. it may be that you are right, that the substantive difference was only on your colleagues and being able to support the efforts that they were making in the crisis centre. for some of us, that would still be rather important. and i also accept your review, your reflection of the position. the problem i think many of us have, which is why this keeps coming back, is the very idea that the prime minister, the deputy prime minister, because let's not forget thatis minister, because let's not forget that is what his position was, the foreign secretary, the us national security adviser, the home office and the pos of defence, were all the same time. did you think of taking holiday around that time, sir laurie? i holiday around that time, sir laurie? . , holiday around that time, sir laurie? ., , ., ., holiday around that time, sir laurie? .,, ., ., ., holiday around that time, sir laurie? ., ., ., ., laurie? i was in london for four da s laurie? i was in london for four days around _ laurie? i was in london for four days around the _ laurie? i was in london for four days around the seventh - laurie? i was in london for four days around the seventh to - laurie? i was in london for four days around the seventh to the | laurie? i was in london for four- days around the seventh to the 11th of august as part of a planned rotation. i am of august as part of a planned rotation. iam not of august as part of a planned rotation. i am not sure whether you are familiar with how the embassy is staffed but essentially it is a six and two petition. the embassy is staffed specifically so there is an alternative ambassador. of the time i was in london, i probably spent the majority of it in meetings, either in the office. find the majority of it in meetings, either in the office.— the majority of it in meetings, either in the office. and he went back rather— either in the office. and he went back rather quicker _ either in the office. and he went back rather quicker than - either in the office. and he went back rather quicker than your . either in the office. and he wentj back rather quicker than your six and two — back rather quicker than your six and two. , back rather quicker than your six and two.- this _ back rather quicker than your six and two.- this is _ back rather quicker than your six and two. yes. this is the point we are coming _ and two. yes. this is the point we are coming to. — and two. 193 this is the point we are coming to, leadership matters and it is notjust about the difference imager can make in terms of tactical command, but about the strategic intent it demonstrates for an organisation and the seriousness with which an organisation pursues its function. i come back again to the first question i asked you and you described yourself as a civil servant. you are not a civil servant, you are at the head of her majesty's diplomatic corps, that is a function greater than the civil service and it is greater than the civil service for the simple reason that you are solely charged with the powers that you hold abroad, in order to exercise extraordinary powers on behalf of this government with almost no review or cheque. that is fantastic and that is why we are lucky to have brilliant people in our diplomatic service around the world, and by the way, i could point to 50 today and 100 tomorrow. but it does raise serious concerns that if you are effectively in the position, similar to a position officer of the crown, does raise some very serious concerns if that ethos isn't being followed at the head of the organisation. forgive me, that is why this keeps coming back. i think i am true to — why this keeps coming back. i think i am true to the _ why this keeps coming back. i think i am true to the ethos _ why this keeps coming back. i think i am true to the ethos of— why this keeps coming back. i think i am true to the ethos of public- i am true to the ethos of public service — i am true to the ethos of public service. that is what i try to live by and _ service. that is what i try to live by and motivates me in myjob. canl by and motivates me in my 'ob. can i move onto — by and motivates me in my 'ob. can i move onto a — by and motivates me in my 'ob. can i move onto a different _ by and motivates me in my job. can i move onto a different issue? - by and motivates me in myjob. can i move onto a different issue? just because the former foreign secretary this morning said there were a thousand sed oh staff working in the crisis centre, and i think the number that has been given today is 500. i'm sure whether that is sed oh staff or not. 500 by normal standards mean would mean roughly 85 full—time equivalents. on a rolling basis, is that right? the full-time equivalents. on a rolling basis, is that right?— basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, _ basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, i _ basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, i think— basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, i think it - basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, i think it was - basis, is that right? the 500 referred to, i think it was a l basis, is that right? the 500 i referred to, i think it was a bit more — referred to, i think it was a bit more than _ referred to, i think it was a bit more than 500 referred to. you divide _ more than 500 referred to. you divide a — more than 500 referred to. you divide a battery to any number on a particular— divide a battery to any number on a particular shift. that divide a battery to any number on a particular shift-— particular shift. that really have isn't how it _ particular shift. that really have isn't how it works. _ particular shift. that really have isn't how it works. that - particular shift. that really have isn't how it works. that is - particular shift. that really have isn't how it works. that is not i particular shift. that really have i isn't how it works. that is not how 24/7 works. i isn't how it works. that is not how 24/7 works-— 24/7 works. i think the overall number refers _ 24/7 works. i think the overall number refers to _ 24/7 works. i think the overall number refers to the - 24/7 works. i think the overall number refers to the total - 24/7 works. i think the overall- number refers to the total number of people _ number refers to the total number of people across the department who worked _ people across the department who worked on — people across the department who worked on the crisis at one time. anybody— worked on the crisis at one time. anybody who sent an e—mail about anything in your words. itlot anybody who sent an e-mail about anything in your words.— anything in your words. not at all. niel anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy _ anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy what _ anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy what is _ anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy what is it _ anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy what is it any - anything in your words. not at all. nigel comedy what is it any more | nigel comedy what is it any more about— nigel comedy what is it any more about the — nigel comedy what is it any more about the figures? that nigel comedy what is it any more about the figures?— about the figures? that is right. the 1300 is _ about the figures? that is right. the 1300 is the _ about the figures? that is right. the 1300 is the total _ about the figures? that is right. the 1300 is the total number i about the figures? that is right. the 1300 is the total number of| the 1300 is the total number of staffing — the 1300 is the total number of staffing who _ the 1300 is the total number of staffing who worked _ the 1300 is the total number of staffing who worked at - the 1300 is the total number of staffing who worked at some i the 1300 is the total number of i staffing who worked at some point the 1300 is the total number of - staffing who worked at some point on the crisis. _ staffing who worked at some point on the crisis, rostered, _ staffing who worked at some point on the crisis, rostered, whether- the crisis, rostered, whether working _ the crisis, rostered, whether working in— the crisis, rostered, whether working in the _ the crisis, rostered, whether working in the crisis - the crisis, rostered, whether working in the crisis centre l the crisis, rostered, whetherl working in the crisis centre or the crisis, rostered, whether- working in the crisis centre or from a post— working in the crisis centre or from a post around _ working in the crisis centre or from a post around our— working in the crisis centre or from a post around our network- working in the crisis centre or froml a post around our network remotely or from _ a post around our network remotely or from home _ a post around our network remotely orfrom home-— a post around our network remotely or from home. between what dates. that is during _ or from home. between what dates. that is during the _ or from home. between what dates. that is during the course _ or from home. between what dates. that is during the course of - or from home. between what dates. that is during the course of the i that is during the course of the crisis — that is during the course of the crisis. :, : , that is during the course of the crisis. :, ~ , :, :, crisis. from april through to au . ust? crisis. from april through to august? no. _ crisis. from april through to august? no, this _ crisis. from april through to august? no, this is - crisis. from april through to august? no, this is in i crisis. from april through to august? no, this is in the l crisis. from april through to i august? no, this is in the course crisis. from april through to - august? no, this is in the course of the evacuation _ august? no, this is in the course of the evacuation period. _ august? no, this is in the course of the evacuation period. let's - august? no, this is in the course of the evacuation period. let's say i the evacuation period. let's say from _ the evacuation period. let's say from the — the evacuation period. let's say from the 15th _ the evacuation period. let's say from the 15th of— the evacuation period. let's say from the 15th of august - the evacuation period. let's say from the 15th of august to i the evacuation period. let's say from the 15th of august to the l the evacuation period. let's say. from the 15th of august to the end of august — from the 15th of august to the end of august and— from the 15th of august to the end of au:ust. : :, from the 15th of august to the end of au:ust. : ., , from the 15th of august to the end of au:ust. : :, , ., , of august. and that is all fcdo staff? not— of august. and that is all fcdo staff? not from _ of august. and that is all fcdo staff? not from any _ of august. and that is all fcdo staff? not from any other i staff? not from any other department?— staff? not from any other deartment? :: :: , , staff? not from any other deartment? [xii :: , , , ., , department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, es, i department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, yes. i believe- _ department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, yes, i believe. you _ department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, yes, i believe. you believe. - department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, yes, i believe. you believe. i- department? the 1300 is fcdo staff, yes, i believe. you believe. i am i yes, i believe. you believe. i am not yes, i believe. you believe. i am rrot asking _ yes, i believe. you believe. i am rrot asking you — yes, i believe. you believe. i am not asking you to _ yes, i believe. you believe. i am not asking you to give _ yes, i believe. you believe. i am not asking you to give us i yes, i believe. you believe. i am not asking you to give us 1300 l yes, i believe. you believe. i am i not asking you to give us 1300 names but it would be really good if you could give us an indication of what departments they came from, broad categories of numbers because 1300, 1500 just sounds suspiciously around. i don't buy it if i am honest. it certainly doesn't equate with anything i've heard from other officials in the department or from the evidence that has been given to us. .., the evidence that has been given to us. :., :, the evidence that has been given to us. :, ., us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown- _ us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown. can _ us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown. can i _ us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown. can i go _ us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown. can i go into i us. ok, we can write to you with a breakdown. can i go into special. breakdown. can i go into special cases? because _ breakdown. can i go into special cases? because i _ breakdown. can i go into special cases? because i note i breakdown. can i go into special cases? because i note that i breakdown. can i go into special- cases? because i note that everybody keeps on saying this has been a wonderful success, we managed to get so many hundreds of people out under special cases and so on, but there is an alternative argument which has been picked to ask, the action of the way this was structured was a terrible mistake, we had three different systems running at the same time run by three different departments, one of those systems is not yet up and running at all. one of them was won by the mod, which is the app. and if that was the creation of this special cases category, and because there was simply so much coming through, we ended up not merely prioritising properly. we ended up basically looking a finger and sticking in the air. can ijust ask, when was this special cases concept devised and by whom? ~ , , ., .,:, special cases concept devised and by whom? ~ , , ., :, whom? ministers took a decision on or around the _ whom? ministers took a decision on or around the 16th _ whom? ministers took a decision on or around the 16th of— whom? ministers took a decision on or around the 16th of august, i whom? ministers took a decision on or around the 16th of august, in i or around the 16th of august, in addition to cases in british nationals and their dependents, if there was space on flights, we will extend the evacuation to others, the so—called special cases. bhd extend the evacuation to others, the so-called special cases.— so-called special cases. and when ou sa so-called special cases. and when you say ministers _ so-called special cases. and when you say ministers decided, i so-called special cases. and when you say ministers decided, what . so-called special cases. and when you say ministers decided, what is that mean and where did they decide that? ., that mean and where did they decide that? :, , :, that mean and where did they decide that? ., i. ,. , that? can you describe the ministerial _ that? can you describe the ministerial decision i that? can you describe the| ministerial decision making that? can you describe the i ministerial decision making process on that? the ministerial decision making process on that? ~ , ministerial decision making process on that? ~' , , , :, on that? the key ministers involved were the then _ on that? the key ministers involved were the then foreign _ on that? the key ministers involved were the then foreign secretary, i on that? the key ministers involved | were the then foreign secretary, the home _ were the then foreign secretary, the home secretary. they have been clear with us _ home secretary. they have been clear with us up— home secretary. they have been clear with us up until that point that the overwhelming priority in terms of evacuation — overwhelming priority in terms of evacuation of british nationals and their eligible family members. those who had _ their eligible family members. those who had been accepted and the scheme, — who had been accepted and the scheme, then the week of the 16th it was decided by ministers that if there _ was decided by ministers that if there were spare capacity on flights, — there were spare capacity on flights, that we would look to prioritise _ flights, that we would look to prioritise additional afghans who do not fall— prioritise additional afghans who do not fall into the first two categories.— not fall into the first two categories. not fall into the first two cate . ories. , ., , categories. help me a bit here because the — categories. help me a bit here because the normal— categories. help me a bit here because the normal process i categories. help me a bit herej because the normal process of ministerial decision making would be on the back of a report that is sent up on the back of a report that is sent up from officials or ministers saying we are interested in doing this, officials, is this a possibility? was there a paper that was considered or was this just this sat in a room, they came up with a view and told you we are creating the special cases category. ministers met six times in the course — ministers met six times in the course of— ministers met six times in the course of the crisis in cobra format and i_ course of the crisis in cobra format and i believe it was from one of those _ and i believe it was from one of those early meetings that the decision— those early meetings that the decision was taken that we should, in response — decision was taken that we should, in response to the calls that were coming _ in response to the calls that were coming through from members of parliament, from others, to do what we could _ parliament, from others, to do what we could for— parliament, from others, to do what we could for people that did not fall into — we could for people that did not fall into the first two categories, that we — fall into the first two categories, that we should indeed respond if and when we _ that we should indeed respond if and when we are advised that we have capacity— when we are advised that we have capacity on — when we are advised that we have capacity on those flights. that was always _ capacity on those flights. that was always a _ capacity on those flights. that was always a basis of this scheme. mr always a basis of this scheme. marshall always a basis of this scheme. m marshall told always a basis of this scheme. ii marshall told us, in always a basis of this scheme. i’i marshall told us, in what i have to say was an extraordinarily well argued document, and it seems a great loss to the foreign office that he is no longer with you, but i will leave that to one side, he said in a paragraph 35 of his evidence, which i believe you have all seen, i believe the foreign secretary had approved a submission including a list of categories of people to be evacuated. intelligence officers, journalists, judges etc. is that right? was there a submission? yes. right? was there a submission? yes, there were two _ right? was there a submission? ieis there were two submissions. we right? was there a submission? i2: there were two submissions. we were asked by the foreign secretary to advise on which categories of people should be prioritised. we put advice to the foreign secretary. i think absolutely rightly wanted to take response body for making those difficult decisions himself. the way the process worked was he decided which categories should be prioritised and then we were tasked with prioritising within those categories individuals according to a set of criteria which included that. :, , , , a set of criteria which included that. . ,,, , that. can i suspend the session because there _ that. can i suspend the session because there is _ that. can i suspend the session because there is a _ that. can i suspend the session because there is a division - that. can i suspend the session because there is a division bell| because there is a division bell being called? order. studio: as the division bell has been called we will pull away from there as well. the foreign affairs select committee. interviewing or questioning three senior officials. so laurie bristow, the former capacity to kabul, he was therefore the evacuation. we are also hearing from sir philip barton who is the under secretary to the foreign office and mr casey as well who is the prime minister's representative. what came up over and over again was why sir philip barton, in particular, the undersecretary to the foreign office, has stayed away on holiday during this crisis. it emerged that in fact he had been away from the 9th of august to the 26th of august when on the 11th of august, the decision had been taken to move the british embassy to kabul airport, on the 13th of august it was clear from the military that the situation was... and on the 15th of august, going back to what was happening in kabul at the time with the taliban moving in on the city, the taliban moving in on the city, the president had fled. this follows written evidence to the committee by rafael marshall who worked in the foreign office and was a junior desk officer at the time of this evacuation. his evidence yesterday was damning in that there was a scene of chaos and dysfunction with a failure to prioritise any of the tens or hundreds, hundred 50,000 plus people who had applied for permission to leave the capital because of their fears of the taliban to cover. according to rafael marshall, he said that some 5%, less than 5%, of the people who had applied, to the foreign office and the mod, were actually allowed to leave and he feared that many of those who had applied has been murdered. he said that the system that was set up to provide false negatives, effectively deliberately misleading. that e—mail is sent into these boxes sometimes at desks not manned by anyone in the foreign office at the time. it was created so it looked as though these e—mails have been red but they hadn't. the implication was this was providing political cover for the then foreign secretary dominic raab and the prime minister who said that all e—mails had been read at the time. criticism of dominic raab, he has been making his defence today in the media. but he actually said, because dominic raab was away at holiday in the time in crete, he asked for the information to be processed in a different way. interviewed earlier today, he was asked if he thought rafael marshall, the whistle—blower, as designated by the foreign office, has light and dominic raab said no, he hadn't lied, he wasjust clarifying facts. it appears that the foreign affairs select committee will sit again after that division bell where mps will be going to vote. obviously, in the meantime, i will want to bring you some other news as well regarding a couple of cases. let's start with the news from france. a saudi national has been arrested as he was about to board a flight to riyadh. we understand he was a former royal guard in saudi arabia who is believed to be involved in the killing of jamal believed to be involved in the killing ofjamal khashoggi. that follows a visit to the gulf by emmanuel macron where macron met the crown prince. let's go back to afghanistan. we can speak to brad blitz, a professor of international politics, who worked to get more than 20 to 50 researchers and academics out of afghanistan during that evacuation. i am not sure how much you are able to hear of that hearing, but did that coincide with your experience at the time, in terms of that sense of confusion? it was astonishing, in fact it clarified what we had suspected, there was truly a lack of coordination. but even worse there was a lack ofjudgment, we heard the chair described the lack of seriousness and leadership. from the foreign secretary, three to the head of the diplomatic corps right the way down. it is just truly alarming that these decisions were allowed to take place, that people were on holiday when we were experiencing a crisis since we haven't seen since suez. this is a profoundly important moment in these people were on holiday. —— and these people. phillip holiday. -- and these people. philip barton pointed _ holiday. -- and these people. philip barton pointed out _ holiday. -- and these people. philip barton pointed out he _ holiday. —— and these people. philip barton pointed out he didn't believe it would make any material difference had he been back in london. i difference had he been back in london. :, �* , . �* london. i don't accept that. i'm sor , if london. i don't accept that. i'm sorry. if you — london. i don't accept that. i'm sorry, if you ahead _ london. i don't accept that. i'm sorry, if you ahead of— london. i don't accept that. i'm sorry, if you ahead of the - sorry, if you ahead of the diplomatic corps of a country and the military power such as united kingdom, and you —— your ambassador has ordered the embassy to start to scale down, and they were starting to evacuate british staff, you don't remain on holiday for over two weeks. , . ,:, remain on holiday for over two weeks. , . :, weeks. they also point out in their defence that _ weeks. they also point out in their defence that they _ weeks. they also point out in their defence that they evacuated - weeks. they also point out in their defence that they evacuated more | defence that they evacuated more people than any other country outside america. is there anything to praise the response, given how difficult and frantic those last few days were? difficult and frantic those last few da s were? , difficult and frantic those last few days were?— difficult and frantic those last few da s were? , .. . days were? they did extract large numbers of _ days were? they did extract large numbers of british _ days were? they did extract large numbers of british nationals - days were? they did extract large numbers of british nationals and l days were? they did extract large i numbers of british nationals and the also extracted some afghan nationals. but there were thousands of people who were trying to get to the airport, certainly there were documented cases of afghans at risk who never saw ac 130, and we now know that they did prioritise dogs and cats over afghans. we know they were prioritising certain groups. we heard that the fcdo had drawn up two lists, in fact dominic raab had seen an authorised two lists of people that should be evacuated and therefore there was some privatisation that went on. we therefore must ask why is it that large numbers of people who were at risk, either needed to be evacuated by other countries, and in the case of some of our colleagues successfully, and why it is that so many were left behind? you were involved with _ many were left behind? you were involved with the _ many were left behind? you were involved with the evacuation - many were left behind? you were involved with the evacuation or. involved with the evacuation or attempted evacuation of 350. how many of those that you managed to successfully extract from the cou ntry successfully extract from the country and what happened to those who were not able to be? 25 oii country and what happened to those who were not able to be?— who were not able to be? 25 of our colleagues — who were not able to be? 25 of our colleagues were _ who were not able to be? 25 of our colleagues were evacuated - who were not able to be? 25 of our colleagues were evacuated to - who were not able to be? 25 of our i colleagues were evacuated to poland. one was evacuated to sweden, one to spain and went to italy. and then the airport closed. the list are closed for them. we now know that dogs and cats were evacuated after the airport had closed due to the suicide bombing. in any event, 28 of our colleagues were able to get out before the fall of kabul and before the international forces left afghanistan. but since then others have been evacuated and other countries are still evacuating not only their own nationals but afghans who worked with them, so we know that germany is still evacuating people directly to germany. and of the number of afghan colleagues we were working with, an additional 3a were working with, an additional 3a were evacuated last month, now any third country waiting and hoping that the british government will open the door to them, as the british government once promised. 0k, british government once promised. ok, thank you very much indeed for joining us. let's move away from that, hundreds of staff at an american company joint easing, the boss only to be told he was sucking them. the chief executive of the mortgage firm blamed staff performance, productivity and market changes for the mass online dismissal. just before christmas. let's speak to kate palmer, director of advice at a global employment consultancy. getting rid of anyone, especially before christmas, is difficult, as we all know. he did say he wanted to do it personally and that is why he spoke to them. he didn'tjust leave it to an hr person. spoke to them. he didn't 'ust leave it to an hr person._ spoke to them. he didn't 'ust leave it to an hr person.— it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon- _ it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon- i — it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon. i think _ it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon. i think to _ it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon. i think to be - it to an hr person. yeah, good afternoon. i think to be fair- it to an hr person. yeah, good | afternoon. i think to be fair that is the one thing i could extract as a positive. many readers of businesses get criticised for not being at the forefront when difficult decisions have to be made and this is a scenario where he actually did that, albeit in uk legislation, the way it was done is flawed. but at least he was there. what struck you as being egregiously wrong about this? i mean it wasn't very long, there are 900 people there. were they able to interact with him? talk us through precisely what happened. i with him? talk us through precisely what happened-— with him? talk us through precisely what happened. i think there was an arra of what happened. i think there was an array of moral _ what happened. i think there was an array of moral and _ what happened. i think there was an array of moral and legal _ array of moral and legal deficiencies. you are quite right, the zoom at the deal was very cold, it was criticised. importantly it is the explain why. —— didn't explain why. with any unemployment situation, why is the business having to do this? it was very short, there is no reasoning or depth in their and he dismissed them with immediacy, so if that was uk legislation, there is no consultation, there is no two—way conversation, there is risk and that from the uk legal point. let’s conversation, there is risk and that from the uk legal point.— from the uk legal point. let's put the law to one — from the uk legal point. let's put the law to one side, _ from the uk legal point. let's put the law to one side, in _ from the uk legal point. let's put the law to one side, in terms - from the uk legal point. let's put the law to one side, in terms of. the law to one side, in terms of tone, in terms of trying to humanise this, it is the most awful news for anyone to get. how would you do it? empathy is key. that anyone to get. how would you do it? empathy is key-— empathy is key. that could be for, isn't it? -- — empathy is key. that could be for, isn't it? -- that— empathy is key. that could be for, isn't it? -- that could _ empathy is key. that could be for, isn't it? -- that could be - empathy is key. that could be for, isn't it? -- that could be fake. - isn't it? —— that could be fake. advertising is generally as it can be done should be there. the explanation of why is fundamental. justified with figures and numbers and evidence. and if you canjust buy that with key evidence, you start to get people on board with your directive, your direction and also any redundancy process is a two—way process. you should go into it with a decision made. he got into its saying the business has got this problem, we need to have a discussion, what are your thoughts? any suggestions as to how we can avoid this redundancy? get them involved in the thinking and then wait for hopefully with a resolution to avoid a redundancy. certainly not always. but then they will actually feel on board with the process and feel on board with the process and feel like they have an influence and impact on the way forward. {lila feel like they have an influence and impact on the way forward. 0k, 'ust before christmas i impact on the way forward. 0k, 'ust before christmas makes * impact on the way forward. 0k, 'ust before christmas makes it i impact on the way forward. 0k, just before christmas makes it worse . impact on the way forward. 0k, just before christmas makes it worse of| before christmas makes it worse of course. thank you very much indeed. that is it from me. coming up now we have got and before that the weather with matt. now it's time for a look at the weather with matt taylor. many parts of the uk feeling the effect of the storm. the latest weather warnings are on the app. widespread gales to the rest of the day for many. peaking late in the north—east of scotland as we head into the evening. notjust that come up into the evening. notjust that come up with cold air in place we will see spells of snow across the pennines and hills of scotland. because causing disruption, blowing around in the strong winds. if we step out to show of the country, there is the centre of barra fishing across ireland. a spell of heavy rain and intends for a time, pitting his wits across eastern half of england are many spell of dry weather for a england are many spell of dry weatherfor a time. england are many spell of dry weather for a time. temperatures left into a south—west and a call today across northern and eastern parts. through tonight, still circulating, pushing eastwards, becoming less potent but with a cell c strung together for swindon north of scotland, through ireland, down to is this south—west and potential in places for a bit of ice. take care. this is bbc news. i'm ben brown. our headlines at five. a foreign office whistleblower says the government's evacuation operation in afghanistan was dysfunctional and chaotic. it comes as the head of the diplomatic service tells a committee of mps he regrets not coming back from holiday sooner when the crisis was unfolding. i have reflected a lot since august on my leave, and if i had my time again, i would've come back from my leave earlier. the uk reports its highest weekly number of new cases of covid—19 since january. 101 of those registered in the past 2a hours are of the omicron variant. after storm arwen, now it's storm barra that's battering parts of the uk with high winds and heavy rainfall. the government admits a series of failings in the years leading up

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