Simon walker is Chief Executive at marquee tv. And, simon, for listeners who dont know, what exactly is marquee tv . Thank you, katie, good to be here. Marquee tv is netflix for the Performing Arts but, as i think well discuss, that shorthand doesnt work any more when netflix has eaten the world. So i like to think of us as the ultimate Arts Companion in this niche of lovers of Performing Arts and culture. Thanks, well talk about that later. Julia alexander, you are a senior Strategy Analyst at Parrot Analytics, welcome. And i believe you also co host the podcast downstream what sort of things do you cover in that . Absolutely, i look at the shifting trends and shifting Strategic Moves in hollywood as they prepare for tomorrow and move away from the past. Wow, love the sound of that. We will also talk to you both later, but also here is kamal ahmed, editor in chief of the News Movement, a new venture. Until earlier this year, kamal was the bbc� s editorial director and before his bbc days, he was at the Sunday Telegraph and the observer. Well get into more detail later on, butjust give us a quick overview of what the News Movement is good name yes, hello, thanksi for the invitation to join the media show. Probably all of us in the industry know theres something of an issue how do we solve the under supply of trusted news and information i on Social Media Platforms . Many of us will need to work i together to solve that problem, and the News Movement is our attempt to do so. I four days old, its like having a newborn every external meeting i do, i rush back to make sure were still breathing. But four days in, were still going strong. And its aimed at young people, is it . Thats the first demographic. We are aiming at, but we know theres been a massive audience shift and the age demographic. Of that shift is going up. So at the moment, younger people get their main news| and information from social. Media, but that demographic is growing constantly. So we are starting young, but we want to develop the age demographics were looking at. Thanks, kamal. And my other guest, maria breslin, is editor of the Liverpool Echo. Maria, we should start with you obviously because the story thats been across every front page this week is the Taxi Explosion outside the Liverpool Hospital on sunday afternoon, which has been reported as a terrorist attack. So lets start with the practicalities how quickly were you, at the Liverpool Echo, able to get reporters on the ground that day . Hi, katie, thanks for inviting me along. Thanks for coming on. I first learned about the explosion after logging on around am sunday morning, and i quite quickly had an e mailfrom a reader who had a picture of what he called a car on fire. We quite quickly got to the hospital and it emerged straight away that this was much more than a car on fire. So we were pretty much on the scene, i would say, by 11. 30am. Did it make a difference that it was sunday . Was that a harder day to get did you have reporters around already . Absolutely, we started the day with a content editor, a reporter, and a photographer working, just the three of them. And we ended up with about 15 20 people and lots of volunteers. Lots of Phone Bashing . And lots of offers of help from across the wider reach family, as well. We knew quite quickly it was something exceptional and severe. And how did you decide what to put on your front page for the Monday Morning . I think if weve learned one thing from lockdown and the pandemic, its the importance of being a trusted news source. I think, as touched upon before, the internet� s a noisy place, social media is even noisier. And its important that we cut through that noise. So right at the beginning of the day when we started our live coverage, we discussed our tactics and approach. We were only dealing in facts and reporting what we knew. We were only reporting information from on the record authorities or from sources that we 100 trusted. So we were never going down the speculative route because we knew it was too important. And also, you know, our Brand Credibility means an awful lot to us. The biggest discussion we had around mondays front page was whether to use the word terror. Because its obviously a massive difference between calling it terrorism and not, and it has huge implications. Absolutely, and we used the word terror probe we didnt do it lightly, at that point, wed had a Press Conference from the Chief Constable when they confirmed that indeed, it was treated as a potential terror attack. So we didnt do it lightly, and it was certainly in context of what was happening at that point. But any language weve used throughout our coverage has always been language used by the authorities, weve not jumped to conclusions. Sorry to interrupt, maria, kamal ahmed, obviously these are conversations youve had in the past in your previous job at the bbc. Does that resonate with you, those decisions you have to take . Absolutely, kate. I remember the horrific attacks in christchurch, new zealand. I remember when i was head of news at the observer when the 7 7 attacks happened in 2005, the london bombings. And maria absolutely nails it you have to take care. But it is a time, as well, katie, when theres so much brilliant journalism thats done that people need to have things explained. I think youre absolutely right, maria, this notion of the trusted source is really important. People come to the journalism they trust, and particularly the power of regional and local journalism shows its real brilliance through events like this. But it is important to tread carefully but at the same time, not to undermine the journalistic instinct to find out what has happened, to be able to explain to the public, particularly in liverpool, im sure, maria, who are scared. What does this mean, is there more, whats going to happen . Lets think some more about some of the other ethical issues here. Last week, a group called survivors against terror published a report criticising the media for intrusion, citing awful examples like a teenager who learnt first from a journalist that her brother had been killed. And this week, the wife of the liverpool taxi driver has complained about press intrusion. Kamal ahmed, what is doorstepping, and how fundamental is it in a story like this, do you think . Well, doorstepping is the way that some journalism operates, and often for very good reason. Youre in that first information gathering phase, and you are trying to understand the facts and gather as many facts as is possible that means eyewitnesses, it means relatives. But, as the report that youve just outlined shows, you have to be cautious and careful, and judicious. And its always those judgment calls. And all of us as journalists, who been in the front line and managing journalists, know you have to keep discussing how you approach people who are often grieving. And, as you say, katie, we may have found out things much more quickly than relatives and as you made clear, sometimesjournalism missteps. But, as i say, its important that journalism has its function of explaining to the public what has happened, finding out the truth about what has happened. We are an essential part of democratic society, an important part of holding those in power to account and explaining to the public whats going on. And doorsteps, as theyre called in the old language, are part of that. But again, they need to be carefully used. Maria breslin, you are editor now, but you started as a reporter im sure youve done dozens of door knocks, is there a technique . I would agree that the bar has certainly moved. Doorstepping was something i did on probably a daily basis when i was a reporter. And now, we are much more cautious. Did you ever do it with trepidation back then . I always did it with trepidation. I dont think its normal to love a doorstep in circumstances that often involve tragedies. So it was always with trepidation and the greatest respect. How do you do it in those circumstances . I think its just respectful, you know, some people find speaking cathartic. The idea that doorstepping is, you know, Out Of Bounds is not something i personally agree with. People do sometimes want to talk, and its part of the process. So its always with respect, its always taking no for an answer, its not returning once youve been turned away, and its offering to help and sometimes what we can offer does help people who are in a difficult situation, i would say. And your paper, the Liverpool Echo, is carrying interviews with people who knew the suspect and the taxi driver, who had such a lucky escape did you get those by doorstepping . We didnt. In fact, we erred on the side of caution all the time, in fact, we did not name the taxi driver until we were confident through a third party that his family were happy for us to do so. We didnt doorstep the taxi driver. There are other people whom we turned up at their address, and they put a message in the window saying they didnt want to speak to journalists, so we didnt knock. Obviously, you know, gathering information in the wake of events such as this is important, its an important part of this sort of Public Interest role that we serve, really. Really interesting stuff, kamal ahmed, these are the sorts of things youll now be overseeing, these sorts of decisions for the News Movement, your new venture. I know youre still in your very early, soft launch phase, but what kinds of stories have you covered so far . Have you covered any stories so far . Yes, we did azeem rafiq yesterday it was a vitally important story for many, many young people. As you say, our first demographic is young people, we are all about young news for young people by young people. Im not supposing, katie, that an old person in their 50s, as i am, should be Making Decisions about what young people should see. But we are talking to our young team here, im speaking to you from the itn offices in central london. Itn is our Incubation Partner here in london, we have Associated Press in new york. But its talking to that young team here, its listening to the socials conversation, and its Making Decisions there. And yesterday, as soon as we heard the incredible testimony of mr rafiq, we knew that was something that was trending amongst our demographic, and we did that story. I guess the key question is, are the people that you are aiming at prepared to pay for this kind of news . Thats the key question for you, what do you think the answer is . Yes, theres evidence that micro payments and subscriptions of different types work for all sorts of different demographics. Theres also, of course, at scale, which is where we want to be, an advertising model, as well. Social media platforms are now much more engaged in supporting the monetisation of good, factual, engaging, unbiased news and information on social media sites, theyve done lots and lots of deals. So there are monetisation models now to enable us to solve this really key problem of this under supply of trusted news and information on social media and other digital platforms. We are starting on a journey here. Ok, well, look, we talked earlier about some of the difficult editorial policy Making Decisions around a bomb attack. Lets talk with you about other thorny decisions being made the bbc has just pulled out of stonewall� s diversity champions programme, the scheme where the charity gives advice on inclusive workspaces. Is your new organisation signed up . No, weve not had that conversation. We are very small and just starting. I think your approach to these things is to listen to all relevant Points Of View respectfully. I did a session this morning at a thing called out of the box, which is the freeview event this morning, and we talked about these divisive or issues that can appear divisive, and how do you deal with them . I think the approach is to listen respectfully to all Points Of View, reflect on what your audience thinks, and to carry on in that manner. We are nowhere near the scale and size, though, where we would be in those types of conversations. And the bbc obviously was in those types of conversations, you were editorial director until this february were you part of the decision to sign up to the programme, for the bbc . No, i was not. Im sure many people listening will be aware, bbc� s nolan investigates podcast raised questions about whether being part of the scheme damaged the bbc� s impartiality. What do you make of the bbc pulling out . We always had a very good conversations with lots and lots of different groups, and its absolutely what the bbc should do. It wouldnt be right for me to comment on whats happened at the bbc since ive left theyve made their decision, they should discuss that in the way that they want to. But from my memory well, not my memory, from my knowledge of how we discussed these things at the bbc there were lots and lots of different groups. We listened respectfully and tried to make well, we did make decisions with the best of intentions, listening to all the relevant opinions. Weve heard a lot about divisions in newsrooms on many issues, notjust trans rights, Climate Change activism, black lives matter, donald trump and his actions. Fred unsworth, the outgoing bbc director of news, is reported to have told staff at a meeting last week, youll hear things you dont personally like and see things you dont like. Thats what the bbc is, and you have to get used to that. Kamal, youve got this very young team ofjournalists how are you handling those sorts of divisions, if they exist . I dont see much evidence of the actual divisions within newsrooms. Journalists are inquisitive, curious people who want to tell the stories that affect their audiences from their audiences point of view. And thats really what we are all for. I remember my time as a journalist, thats what you tried to do and this team here is what they want to do. And actually, whats been really amazing working with a very young team is that they want to all learn together. And this idea of peer to peer journalism so Friends Finding Out together rather than the professor of news tells the pupil, the audience is really important. Weve had some really good discussions about how we approach different issues. People have different opinions but i think alljournalists understand, as was said, that there are different Points Of View. Illjust interrupt because i want to put that point to maria breslin, editor of the Liverpool Echo what about your newsroom . Are you seeing divisions . I wouldnt say there arent divisions. People have different beliefs and opinions on things, you know, but we pull together and talk about them. We are a very, very tight knit social group, and i think diversity and inclusion is incredibly important to us as a business its something weve got a long way to go, in terms of achieving what we need to achieve and want to achieve. But it is important and everyone is on board with that journey. So of course, you know, people disagree, but generally its important that we present a united front and speak as the echo brand, really. Ok, thanks for that. It isntjust kamal whos launched a new venture the streamers are at it, too. And Julia Alexander is here from Parrot Analytics theres a new streaming service in the uk this week, and i can imagine listeners at home shouting, what, another one . So what is peacock, and what will it add to the mix, do you think . Peacock is Nbc Universals big streaming play. So, disney has disney , Warner Media Has hbo max peacock is Nbc Universal saying, hey, weve goti pretty good content, too, we want to be in this. I but the question posed to comcast, who owns a majority of sky and owns Nbc Universal, as well see this playing out this week and in the weeks to come, is whether or not| theres much appetite in the uk and across europe in the months to come. As there is in the United States, to have a fractured streaming Service Space i where people are subscribing to 7 9 streaming services and then saying, wait, why am i notjust using| cable at this point . The question thatll. Happen with peacock, where people can watch the office and law order, and the mindy project, other Nbc Universal shows, some live sports and live news, is whether or not theres an audience in the uk and europe saying, yeah, i want to sign up for this. Ok, so thats peacock i think disney has also made a bunch of announcements in the last week. Is the headline here that at least two of the big players, netflix and disney, are actually seeing a bit of a slow down, do you think, julia . Definitely in the United States and canada, there is, what we are seeing as questions of churn how many people are staying . But in europe, there actually is a lot more room for there to be growth. The Question Againl that is being asked, and this is why we are seeing viacom, cbs, showtime and Nbc Universal, and peacock looking to say, what if we tried to offerup joined up offering . While disney has its| four Franchise Pillars with star wars, pixar, and marvel, and while netflix is netflix and has some of the best and most i provocative, and also just the most quantitative original you fit into the market alongside the giants . Thanks, katie. If you indulge me with some historical perspective, im old enough that ive seen the beginning and middle of the streaming wars i was the bbc� s first head of on demand in 1997, would you believe, when there really wasnt any on demand. At that point in time, netflix had Just Launched and did ten more years. I remember doing a piece on channel 4 news where the question was, can netflix work back when it launched. I think i thought it would, but there were doubts. I hope you bought shares. Sadly not. Obviously they were another ten years, 2007, before they actually started to do on demand. And there was a really interesting phase where the original broadcasters like the bbc were very advanced, actually, in this. But it does feel like the streaming wars and, to make a silly analogy, if you think about the star wars trilogy, i think were in the Empire Strikes back phase because there was a long period of time where it was netflix and hulu, and the really innovative digital players who were innovating in the space. Were now in this phase where, you know, disney is predicted to overtake netflix in terms of subscriptions in the next five years. Asjulie says, warner and comcast have come through all the Old Media Empire is striking back. Im trying to work out which ones luke, and which one is Princess Leia, and i cant work it out. Well, im about to pitch myself. As Princess Leia . To new streamers as the return of the jedi. Theres going to be a third phase, is my view, and our view at marquee tv basically the medias polarised, youll have these big buckets of content for 10 a month, and whether you choose to get it from disney or netflix, or amazon, or peacock, or whoever that General Entertainment Brand that sort of replicates the core of your cable the middle ground is really challenged, and thats why we have this big debate in the country about channel 4. Whats the point of channel 4 . Well, if you are in britain, theres a lot of point to it. If youre outside of the uk, its irrelevant. And at the other end of the spectrum, the opportunity for entrepreneurs like me, is in the globalfashion niche theres ballet on youtube, but they arent building a brand for ballet. And i think that whats interesting about the next phase of growth here julies right, theres not room for a million streaming services, and what people will do is choose their favourite brands, just like a regular newspaper as you used to back in the day, and if theyve got a specialist interest like, you know, cars and angling, or whatever, thats the brand theyll go for. Or, indeed, ballet . I think im interested in, you know, youve benefited from lockdown, but now we can all go to theatres, opera houses, whatever floats our boat how confident are you that people actually stick with you . Its a good question, and weve researched it because i was anxious about that, too and it turns out that 90 of people who have experienced the Performing Arts online want to continue doing that, even as the sector reopens. And actually, a really good example of that whats been interesting in the lockdown, obviously our Arts Partners have suffered, its been really hard for them, but what it has done is accelerated consumer behaviour. The audience is ready for content like this at home, theyre used to it and ready to pay for it. But also, the Arts Organisations themselves have got their heads around issues. They are production companies, rights, streaming, and all that was new to them, but they got their heads around it. So next week, with Scottish Ballet, weve commissioned a hollywood quality film of a production of gene kellys starstruck, which his widows been involved in, its an amazing, amazing production. It will have a proper premiere next week in london, a red carpet premiere. Then it will appear on our services as a pay per view event, essentially. And then itll be with the Scottish Ballet and us well market internationally, theyll market it to their existing base. I think that hybrid model i where this is going. Love a bit of gene kelly. Julia, what do you make of all this . I think simon hit the nail on the head. Theres this beautiful moment for niche programming wherel the audience is so dedicated so you dont have to worry as much about losing those customers, theyre there. I and also, because the overhead cost is so much lower than a general entertainment streamer and to put that into perspective,. I cant speak to simons budget, of course, but i imagine somewhere close to netflix spending 18 billion a year on content in order to remain ahead of the pack. So when we look at i the Different Services being offered, youve got one category, your general entertainment Streamers The Studios who are now. Becoming streamers saying, we want to own and distribute our own content. You then have the amazon and apple play, which is an ecosystem play. They arent selling you prime video or apple tv , theyre selling you an apple one package and amazon prime. And theyre finding ways to ensure that you are l spending 10 14 a month. And at the other end,. You have both the niche categories and suppliers you have groups of executives saying, we want to offer a very specific offering. For people, and it. Can be anything like marquee, Crunchyroll L which specifically focuses on anime and you also have Companies Like sony saying, i we dont want to partakel in this at all, we would just rather licence our content. At almost quadruple what its worth because its a good game to be a seller. People are buying so i much content right now because they need to. Ok, well, the battle is on im afraid you cant, because were running out of time. All i can say is the battle is on, and im looking forward to return of thejedi no doubt we will return to it On The Media Show soon. But im afraid weve run out of time, thats it for today. Thanks to all my guests simon walker, Julia Alexander, maria breslin, and kamal ahmed. The media show will be back at the same time next week. But for now, thanks for watching, and goodbye. Hello. After all mondays sunshine, tuesday will be cloudier, the sunniest spells across southernmost parts of the uk. Despite all the cloud, therell be a lot of dry weather around, though you may encounter a little light rain or drizzle. It is high pressure, which is why it is mainly dry it is bringing in the cloudier moist weather from the atlantic with some air which is a little less chilly than its been but im not sure well notice much difference between monday and tuesday because were exchanging sunshine for so much more cloud cloud will have prevented much frost in scotland and Northern Ireland overnight. England and wales start with the lower temperatures and greater chance of frost, but also early sunny spells. A rather cloudy day, though, in scotland and Northern Ireland, some patchy rain and drizzle north and west scotland, into Northern Ireland. And Northwest England and north wales could see some of that, as well and see the cloud just increasing further through wales and england. Just east anglia across southern england, to parts of south wales having some sunny spells on through the afternoon with temperatures which are close to average for the time of year. The odd shower near the north sea coast and the far southeast of england into the channel islands, a few of those could continue into tuesday night. With a lot of cloud around, so bear the only frost, and a band of Rain Working Into Scotland and Northern Ireland as we start off on wednesday morning. Now, some fog patches for tuesday morning, as there could be for wednesday morning, as well and particularly through parts of wales and england, they mayjust end with a grey and rather misty, murky day, an already cold feeling day. Ahead of this weather front, which takes rain towards Northwest England and wales, and out of scotland and Northern Ireland with sunshine following, but blustery showers, wintry on hills. It is a colder feeling day for wednesday. And then, for thursday, the colder air has come back but its a brighter day again with sunny spells, though cloud steadily increasing in scotland and Northern Ireland. Wintry showers in northern scotland, a few coastal showers elsewhere in both the east and west of the uk, but most dry with some sunshine. And then, this at the end of the week that will take us into the weekend, as well, an area of low pressure moves across us so wet weather pressing south, heavy showers following on behind, and stronger winds with gales in places, as well. It will feel much colder, with significant wind chill around. And some of these showers may be wintry not necessarilyjust on hills. Welcome to bbc news im david eades. Our top stories. 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