strength to do this? i evidence. how do you summon the strength to do this?— strength to do this? i don't know. i have not strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a — strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit _ strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit of— strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit of karachi _ strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit of karachi in - strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit of karachi in me! - strength to do this? i don't know. i have got a bit of karachi in me! i i have got a bit of karachi in me! i know_ have got a bit of karachi in me! i know the — have got a bit of karachi in me! i know the pain i went through for those _ know the pain i went through for those few— know the pain i went through for those few months. no one can ever put me _ those few months. no one can ever put me through that pain again. i had an_ put me through that pain again. i had an interview about my new business — had an interview about my new business i_ had an interview about my new business. i got asked a question. and i_ business. i got asked a question. and i got— business. i got asked a question. and i got emotional. i said everything. even at that point, i have _ everything. even at that point, i have genuinely thought that there might— have genuinely thought that there might be — have genuinely thought that there might be some humanity left on some of these _ might be some humanity left on some of these individuals but no, the initiat— of these individuals but no, the initial response was, he is not talking — initial response was, he is not talking about yorkshire, he has not mentioned... that it was, it was all about— mentioned... that it was, it was all about discredit, discredit, i do not know_ about discredit, discredit, i do not know how— about discredit, discredit, i do not know how i — about discredit, discredit, i do not know how i have done it. this process— know how i have done it. this process over the last 14 months, it has been _ process over the last 14 months, it has been difficult. in a lot of ways — has been difficult. in a lot of ways but _ has been difficult. in a lot of ways. but i have kept putting myself and my— ways. but i have kept putting myself and my wife... would you like to take a break for a moment or to? we will adjourn for five minutes. order, order. studio: a very emotional azeem rafiq clearly finding it difficult during parts of this testimony to the dcms, this select committee in westminster. mps, the committee chaired by the mp gillian knight, hearing evidence from the former yorkshire county cricket player azeem rafiq about the racial harassment and bullying he experienced at the club. we are expecting to hear from the former chairman of the club, roger hutton, he was expected to appear before the mp5 once mr rafiq has finished his mps once mr rafiq has finished his testimony. let me take you through a little bit of what azeem rafiq has said. he said a racially offensive word related to his heritage was used constantly. no one ever stamped it out, he said, ijust wanted to play cricket and live my dream and that of my family. he said at first he thought it was in denial, he said i looked the other way, just like everyone else did. he then said he started taking medication for his mental health and he had a break playing for the county. but after he came back following the break, he said around 2016, i started to see it, this was the language, i started to see it for what it was. and he said this offensive language was in front of coaching staff, club officials, he said no one ever did anything about it. he became very emotional when talking about a difficult pregnancy that he and his wife are going through. and the loss of that baby, a baby son and how he was spoken to, the first day after returning, after losing his son when he said one official had and to quote mr rafiq, ripped to shreds of me. he is taking us through his early career as well. describing how when he was 15 years old, he was pinned down and red wine was poured down his throat. so some really, really difficult detail that azeem rafiq is going through here. if you arejustjoining us, we have been watching testimony being given by the former yorkshire county cricket player azeem rafiq to mp5 the former yorkshire county cricket player azeem rafiq to mps in westminster about the racism and bullying he experienced and how this investigation, this hearing, has been called to investigate how his complaints and his treatment were handled. we will come back to that hearing as soon as it begins again. let me bring you some other news. the man who died when an explosive device went off in a taxi outside liverpool women's hospital has been named as emad al swealmeen. it was 32. and had come to the uk from the middle east as an asylum seeker. the blast is being treated as a terrorist act and the uk threat level has been raised too severe as simon jones level has been raised too severe as simonjones reports. what led emad al swealmeen to get a taxi to liverpool women's hospital on remembrance sunday carrying an improvised explosive device? his motive isn't clear. the consequences are. the taxi driver managed to scramble out of the vehicle. al swealmeen didn't. within moments, the taxi is engulfed in flames. al swealmeen was 32, a refugee from the middle east. it's believed he'd converted to christianity. he's said to have had mental health issues. when he arrived in the uk, he was befriended by malcolm and elizabeth hitchcott, who knew him as enzo. we're just so, so sad. yeah. and what do you remember of enzo? well, we just loved him. he was a lovely guy. were you shocked when you saw this today? very. part of the hospital remains a crime scene. police are trying to establish if it was the intended target of the attack. searches too at rutland avenue from where al swealmeen had been picked up by the taxi. and we can now return to the house of commons, this hearing, mps are listening to the former yorkshire county cricket player azeem rafiq about racism and bullying he experienced as a player. just finishin: experienced as a player. just finishing off, _ experienced as a player. just finishing off, for _ experienced as a player. just finishing off, for i _ experienced as a player. just finishing off, for i was, i felt all i wanted — finishing off, for i was, i felt all i wanted was an acceptance, apology, and understanding and let's try and work together to make sure it never happens _ work together to make sure it never happens again. when i raised a complaint — happens again. when i raised a complaint again it was a complete denial _ complaint again it was a complete denial i_ complaint again it was a complete denial. i was very lucky, supported by certain— denial. i was very lucky, supported by certain members of the press. but in the _ by certain members of the press. but in the winter— by certain members of the press. but in the winter months, it became, like it— in the winter months, it became, like it was— in the winter months, it became, like it was news again. and i felt like it was news again. and i felt like social— like it was news again. and i felt like social media my voice. i felt very— like social media my voice. i felt very determined that i was not going to let _ very determined that i was not going to let this— very determined that i was not going to let this go. no matter how much damage _ to let this go. no matter how much damage it — to let this go. no matter how much damage it caused me. which i think we will— damage it caused me. which i think we will only— damage it caused me. which i think we will only find out in four or five _ we will only find out in four or five years _ we will only find out in four or five years time but i was very determined to become a voice for the voiceless _ determined to become a voice for the voiceless i_ determined to become a voice for the voiceless. i had a lot of messages from _ voiceless. i had a lot of messages from parents, kids as young as 15. throughout— from parents, kids as young as 15. throughout the country. a professional player messaged me saying _ professional player messaged me saying you have just done what we always _ saying you have just done what we always wanted to do but never had the balls _ always wanted to do but never had the balls to do it so i felt i had a responsibility with social media, but there — responsibility with social media, but there comes a negative side with that as _ but there comes a negative side with that as well. my family has been abused — that as well. my family has been abused i— that as well. my family has been abused. i have been abused. and it's fine. abused. i have been abused. and it's fine i_ abused. i have been abused. and it's the lean _ abused. i have been abused. and it's fine. i can take it and i will because _ fine. i can take it and i will because it _ fine. i can take it and i will because it is something i believe, incredibly— because it is something i believe, incredibly passionate about. and i actually _ incredibly passionate about. and i actually feel if yorkshire had seen this as _ actually feel if yorkshire had seen this as an— actually feel if yorkshire had seen this as an opportunity to become the leaders _ this as an opportunity to become the leaders in _ this as an opportunity to become the leaders in this space, seen this as an opportunity to actually make a real difference in society and the game, _ real difference in society and the game, this could have gone a completely different direction. but they did _ completely different direction. but they did not do that. and that is why we — they did not do that. and that is why we are _ they did not do that. and that is why we are where we are. i think it comes— why we are where we are. i think it comes with — why we are where we are. i think it comes with the platform i have now but it— comes with the platform i have now but it is— comes with the platform i have now but it is important that i had that responsibility and i continue to fulfil— responsibility and i continue to fulfil that for people who are not being _ fulfil that for people who are not being heard and there is plenty of them _ being heard and there is plenty of them. a, being heard and there is plenty of them. ., being heard and there is plenty of them. . i. being heard and there is plenty of them. ., ., being heard and there is plenty of them. . , them. may i ask you if that abuse has one them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too _ them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too far— them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too far in _ them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too far in any _ them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too far in any way? - them. may i ask you if that abuse has gone too far in any way? on i has gone too far in any way? on social media. that has gone too far in any way? on social media.— has gone too far in any way? on social media. at times, i think the last cour>le — social media. at times, i think the last cour>le of— social media. at times, i think the last couple of weeks, _ social media. at times, i think the last couple of weeks, the - social media. at times, i think the last couple of weeks, the thing - social media. at times, i think the | last couple of weeks, the thing has blown _ last couple of weeks, the thing has blown to— last couple of weeks, the thing has blown to a — last couple of weeks, the thing has blown to a new level, i have been told to— blown to a new level, i have been told to go— blown to a new level, i have been told to go back to my roots, if i do not like _ told to go back to my roots, if i do not like it. — told to go back to my roots, if i do not like it, go back to where i came from _ not like it, go back to where i came from it— not like it, go back to where i came from. it hurts. generally. what i want _ from. it hurts. generally. what i want to— from. it hurts. generally. what i want to but _ from. it hurts. generally. what i want to put on record as i am very thankful— want to put on record as i am very thankful for— want to put on record as i am very thankful for all the support i received _ thankful for all the support i received because i received a hell of a lot— received because i received a hell of a lot of— received because i received a hell of a lot of support on social media. there's— of a lot of support on social media. there's a _ of a lot of support on social media. there's a lot — of a lot of support on social media. there's a lot of good people out there _ there's a lot of good people out there but — there's a lot of good people out there. but i think it's human nature, _ there. but i think it's human nature, you always pick up the negative — nature, you always pick up the negative ones and they had been hurtful — negative ones and they had been hurtful. it�*s negative ones and they had been hurtful. �* , ., hurtful. it's worthwhile never readin: hurtful. it's worthwhile never reading your _ hurtful. it's worthwhile never reading your notification - hurtful. it's worthwhile never reading your notification on l reading your notification on twitter. i will hand back to the chair. . , twitter. i will hand back to the chair._ chair, i twitter. i will hand back to the . chair._ chair, thank chair. damian green. chair, thank ou, chair. damian green. chair, thank you. good — chair. damian green. chair, thank you, good morning. _ chair. damian green. chair, thank you, good morning. you - chair. damian green. chair, thank you, good morning. you paint - chair. damian green. chair, thank you, good morning. you paint a i you, good morning. you painta terrible picture in the yorkshire dressing room and around the club. in your younger years. why did you go back there after you left? i am go back there after you left? i am lad ou go back there after you left? i am glad you have _ go back there after you left? i am glad you have asked _ go back there after you left? i am glad you have asked me - go back there after you left? i am glad you have asked me this. because it is something i have been asked a lot on— it is something i have been asked a lot on social — it is something i have been asked a lot on social media. in my first spell. — lot on social media. in my first spell, there was instances that happened that i did not really see it for— happened that i did not really see it for what— happened that i did not really see it for what they were, i was in denial — it for what they were, i was in denial. like i said, i knew there was _ denial. like i said, i knew there was something not right but i did not quite — was something not right but i did not quite know what it was. and to id not quite know what it was. and to go with— not quite know what it was. and to go with that, why did i go back? to be honest. — go with that, why did i go back? to be honest, at the start of 2016, i started _ be honest, at the start of 2016, i started really well. i was training with derbyshire. they did not have the finances to offer me a contract. and i— the finances to offer me a contract. and i was— the finances to offer me a contract. and i was in— the finances to offer me a contract. and i was in a position where putting — and i was in a position where putting food on the table was really difficult _ putting food on the table was really difficult. and i genuinely had no other— difficult. and i genuinely had no other option but to go and try and fulfil not — other option but to go and try and fulfil not only my dream but that of my family — fulfil not only my dream but that of my family. and that was just the honest. — my family. and that was just the honest, why i went back. more importantly, i think i was in denial, _ importantly, i think i was in denial, right up to 2017 and one thing _ denial, right up to 2017 and one thing i— denial, right up to 2017 and one thing i want to talk about is for a person— thing i want to talk about is for a person of— thing i want to talk about is for a person of colour to actually start accepting — person of colour to actually start accepting that you are being treated differently because of your race, religion. — differently because of your race, religion. is— differently because of your race, religion, is actually quite a tough thing _ religion, is actually quite a tough thing to— religion, is actually quite a tough thing to take because then, after that, _ thing to take because then, after that, you — thing to take because then, after that, you are always, like, you just want _ that, you are always, like, you just want answers but you never get answers. — want answers but you never get answers. i— want answers but you never get answers. i did not want to believe it but— answers. i did not want to believe it but when— answers. i did not want to believe it but when it became pretty evident around _ it but when it became pretty evident around the _ it but when it became pretty evident around the loss of my son, i was, look, _ around the loss of my son, i was, look. i— around the loss of my son, i was, look. icannot— around the loss of my son, i was, look, i cannot keep looking the other— look, i cannot keep looking the other way, _ look, i cannot keep looking the otherway, i look, i cannot keep looking the other way, i have to speak about this _ other way, i have to speak about this and — other way, i have to speak about this. and yes, that is the situation _ this. and yes, that is the situation.— this. and yes, that is the situation. ., . situation. you almost went back knowin: situation. you almost went back knowing that — situation. you almost went back knowing that there _ situation. you almost went back knowing that there was - situation. you almost went back knowing that there was this - situation. you almost went back - knowing that there was this niggling problem that you need to confront? not really. like i said, until 2017, i not really. like i said, until 2017, i did not— not really. like i said, until 2017, i did not really know it for what it was _ i did not really know it for what it was i— i did not really know it for what it was iwas— i did not really know it for what it was i was in— i did not really know it for what it was. i was in denial. this is how i presented my evidence. the thing was for me. _ presented my evidence. the thing was for me. right _ presented my evidence. the thing was for me, right at the end, the last year— for me, right at the end, the last year when — for me, right at the end, the last year when i — for me, right at the end, the last year when i presented my evidence, i talked _ year when i presented my evidence, i talked about instances that took place _ talked about instances that took place throughout my time which show them as— place throughout my time which show them as institutional. but right up to 2017. _ them as institutional. but right up to 2017. i— them as institutional. but right up to 2017, i did not believe it and nor did — to 2017, i did not believe it and nor did i— to 2017, i did not believe it and nor did i everwant to 2017, i did not believe it and nor did i ever want to believe it and even — nor did i ever want to believe it and even look at the issue as to what _ and even look at the issue as to what it— and even look at the issue as to what it was— and even look at the issue as to what it was and even 2017, i reported _ what it was and even 2017, i reported it as bullying. because for me to _ reported it as bullying. because for me to actually believe that i was being _ me to actually believe that i was being treated in this way because of my colour— being treated in this way because of my colour or race was quite a difficult — my colour or race was quite a difficult thing to digest. it difficult thing to digest. affects difficult thing to digest. it affects me to this day. you say it's institutional in yorkshire but do you think it's institutional in cricket, more widely?- you think it's institutional in cricket, more widely? is cricket, more widely? yes, i do. is that from experience, _ cricket, more widely? yes, i do. is that from experience, you - cricket, more widely? yes, i do. is that from experience, you claim i that from experience, you claim other counties, when you are playing club cricket, it'sjust other counties, when you are playing club cricket, it's just it infuses the whole game, does it? i club cricket, it'sjust it infuses the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we the whole game, does it? i think the stats. we rely _ the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we rely on _ the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we rely on data _ the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we rely on data a _ the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we rely on data a lot - the whole game, does it? i think the stats, we rely on data a lot in - stats, we rely on data a lot in society today, they would back it up, society today, they would back it up. other— society today, they would back it up, other people's experiences now, i up, other people's experiences now, i know— up, other people's experiences now, i know of— up, other people's experiences now, i know of the record i have had enough — i know of the record i have had enough people talk about experiences up enough people talk about experiences up and _ enough people talk about experiences up and down the country, it's not 'ust up and down the country, it's not just at— up and down the country, it's not just at yorkshire. and i think here, the ecb _ just at yorkshire. and i think here, the ecb has — just at yorkshire. and i think here, the ecb has to take responsibility as well _ the ecb has to take responsibility as well. it's all well and good everyone _ as well. it's all well and good everyone throwing the book at yorkshire. it is still my club. and whether— yorkshire. it is still my club. and whether people believe that or not, i whether people believe that or not, i still— whether people believe that or not, i still have — whether people believe that or not, i still have a sense of wanting to talk and — i still have a sense of wanting to talk and make sure it's notjust everyone — talk and make sure it's notjust everyone throwing the book at yorkshire _ everyone throwing the book at yorkshire because this is a problem up yorkshire because this is a problem up and _ yorkshire because this is a problem up and down the country. it is the ecb 's _ up and down the country. it is the ecb 's game, it is their funding, they— ecb 's game, it is their funding, theyare— ecb 's game, it is their funding, they are the regulators. their actions — they are the regulators. their actions in _ they are the regulators. their actions in the last few years of, they— actions in the last few years of, they teach— actions in the last few years of, they teach us, even around taking they teach us, even around taking the knee. — they teach us, even around taking the knee, they were one of the first sporting _ the knee, they were one of the first sporting teams to stop. whatever it people's— sporting teams to stop. whatever it people's opinions is on that it would — people's opinions is on that it would have kept the conversation going _ would have kept the conversation going so — would have kept the conversation going so i — would have kept the conversation going. so i think the ecb needs to take a _ going. so i think the ecb needs to take a lot — going. so i think the ecb needs to take a lot of responsibility and bring — take a lot of responsibility and bring a — take a lot of responsibility and bring a lot of things in house and stop palming off responsibility to advisory— stop palming off responsibility to advisory bodies such as the national asian _ advisory bodies such as the national asian cricket council because all i see that — asian cricket council because all i see that is — asian cricket council because all i see that is separation, the start of separation. — see that is separation, the start of separation, south asians can be dealt _ separation, south asians can be dealt with. _ separation, south asians can be dealt with, then we will deal with everyone — dealt with, then we will deal with everyone else. dealt with, then we will deal with everyone else-— dealt with, then we will deal with everyone else. you think another, particularly. _ everyone else. you think another, particularly. if _ everyone else. you think another, particularly, if you _ everyone else. you think another, particularly, if you like, _ everyone else. you think another, particularly, if you like, urban - particularly, if you like, urban counties, a contradiction in terms, but you know what i mean. the big urban areas, there will be a large concentration of young cricketers in minorities. that there is still the kind of casual, unthinking racism that you describe so eloquently all over the place and that is why the stats are as they are? you think thatis stats are as they are? you think that is the root?— that is the root? that is the problem. — that is the root? that is the problem, that _ that is the root? that is the problem, that my _ that is the root? that is the | problem, that my experience that is the root? that is the - problem, that my experience is not 'ust problem, that my experience is not just limited — problem, that my experience is not just limited to me. that is the problem — just limited to me. that is the problem but that is a problem that the ecb. _ problem but that is a problem that the ecb, the pca, the counties have never— the ecb, the pca, the counties have never wanted to deal with. i would like an— never wanted to deal with. i would like an answerfor never wanted to deal with. i would like an answer for that. because they— like an answer for that. because they have — like an answer for that. because they have got enough evidence there to show— they have got enough evidence there to show them that that is the problem _ to show them that that is the problem. is it that they never really— problem. is it that they never really wanted to deal with the problem because they do not want representation from south asian communities? on what it really should — communities? on what it really should be — communities? on what it really should be from the talent that comes from there _ should be from the talent that comes from there. that is an answer for them _ from there. that is an answer for them. . , ., . . them. one final question, chair, if ima . them. one final question, chair, if lmay- about— them. one final question, chair, if i may. about yorkshire. _ them. one final question, chair, if i may. about yorkshire. one - them. one final question, chair, if i may. about yorkshire. one of. them. one final question, chair, if. i may. about yorkshire. one of the, and i take the point that you want to talk about the institution rather than individuals. but recentlyjoe root has said in response to this, that he can say that at no stage has he heard any racist conversations in the dressing room or around yorkshire. do you find that statement credible? to yorkshire. do you find that statement credible?- yorkshire. do you find that statement credible? ., , . . statement credible? to be clear, joe root is a good _ statement credible? to be clear, joe root is a good man. _ statement credible? to be clear, joe root is a good man. he _ statement credible? to be clear, joe root is a good man. he has - statement credible? to be clear, joe root is a good man. he has never i root is a good man. he has never engaged — root is a good man. he has never engaged in — root is a good man. he has never engaged in racist language. i do find it— engaged in racist language. i do find it hurtful because he was not only gary— find it hurtful because he was not only gary 's— find it hurtful because he was not only gary 's has made, he was involved — only gary 's has made, he was involved before he started playing for england, he was involved in a lot of— for england, he was involved in a lot of them — for england, he was involved in a lot of them socialising nights out where _ lot of them socialising nights out where i— lot of them socialising nights out where i was called a park but it shows. — where i was called a park but it shows, and he might not remember it, it shows _ shows, and he might not remember it, it shows how— shows, and he might not remember it, it shows how normal it was, in that environment, that institution, even a good _ environment, that institution, even a good man— environment, that institution, even a good man like him does not see it for what _ a good man like him does not see it for what it— a good man like him does not see it for what it is — a good man like him does not see it for what it is. yes, it was strange, but like _ for what it is. yes, it was strange, but like i— for what it is. yes, it was strange, but like i said, it is the environment and the institution that people _ environment and the institution that people do— environment and the institution that people do not remember it and it will not _ people do not remember it and it will not affectjoe people do not remember it and it will not affect joe root. but people do not remember it and it will not affectjoe root. but it is something i remember. every day. i do not _ something i remember. every day. i do not expect him to remember. thank ou. kevin do not expect him to remember. thank you. kevin brennan. _ do not expect him to remember. thank you. kevin brennan. mr— do not expect him to remember. thank you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, i do not expect him to remember. thank you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank| you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank ou for you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank you foryour— you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank you for your testimony. _ you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank you for your testimony. i _ you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank you for your testimony. i must - you. kevin brennan. mr rafeeq, thank you for your testimony. i must say, i you for your testimony. i must say, i had no idea that the terms are used, was a term that could be used as racial abuse, kevin. used, was a term that could be used as racialabuse, kevin. how prevalent and widespread is that in cricket? it prevalent and widespread is that in cricket? . . . prevalent and widespread is that in cricket? , . , _ prevalent and widespread is that in cricket? , _ cricket? it is a term used by gary, gary started _ cricket? it is a term used by gary, gary started this _ cricket? it is a term used by gary, gary started this term. _ cricket? it is a term used by gary, gary started this term. even i i cricket? it is a term used by gary, gary started this term. even i do | gary started this term. even i do not have — gary started this term. even i do not have a — gary started this term. even i do not have a knowledge of where and how. _ not have a knowledge of where and how. it _ not have a knowledge of where and how. it was — not have a knowledge of where and how, it was something used in a derogatory— how, it was something used in a derogatory manner for people of colour _ derogatory manner for people of colour. ., derogatory manner for people of colour. .. ., derogatory manner for people of colour. ., ., . . colour. you mentioned earlier that gary iaallance _ colour. you mentioned earlier that gary ballance was _ colour. you mentioned earlier that gary ballance was someone i colour. you mentioned earlier that gary ballance was someone who i gary ballance was someone who displayed and the phrase you used which i presume is a yorkshire term, white rose values. did you mean that in a derogatory way when you said that, what did you mean? by, in a derogatory way when you said that, what did you mean? a couple of da s auo i that, what did you mean? a couple of days ago i seen _ that, what did you mean? a couple of days ago i seen that _ that, what did you mean? a couple of days ago i seen that 14 _ that, what did you mean? a couple of days ago i seen that 14 members of. days ago i seen that 14 members of the staff— days ago i seen that 14 members of the staff signed a letter to the board — the staff signed a letter to the board a — the staff signed a letter to the board a month ago that they should have come — board a month ago that they should have come out and discredited me and attacked _ have come out and discredited me and attacked me _ have come out and discredited me and attacked me for my personal behaviours. and that i did not share the white _ behaviours. and that i did not share the white rose values. i mean, if they— the white rose values. i mean, if they meant. _ the white rose values. i mean, if they meant, if the white rose values means— they meant, if the white rose values means that — they meant, if the white rose values means that you are racist, then yes, i did means that you are racist, then yes, i did not— means that you are racist, then yes, i did not share them values. and the institution. _ i did not share them values. and the institution, whether it wants to accept — institution, whether it wants to accept it — institution, whether it wants to accept it or not, there is enough, imran— accept it or not, there is enough, imran khan. _ accept it or not, there is enough, imran khan, in 99 talked about it. terry— imran khan, in 99 talked about it. terry rooney, mp, in 2004 talked about— terry rooney, mp, in 2004 talked about it. _ terry rooney, mp, in 2004 talked about it, it's been an open secret, we have _ about it, it's been an open secret, we have a — about it, it's been an open secret, we have a statement from someone as far as _ we have a statement from someone as far as 30 _ we have a statement from someone as far as 30 years back, had someone speak— far as 30 years back, had someone speak to _ far as 30 years back, had someone speak to us — far as 30 years back, had someone speak to us of the record and newly come _ speak to us of the record and newly come forward a couple of times about incidents— come forward a couple of times about incidents in— come forward a couple of times about incidents in 92 that involved people who are _ incidents in 92 that involved people who are coaches now but they were players _ who are coaches now but they were players then. so if the white rose values. _ players then. so if the white rose values, because i do not know what those _ values, because i do not know what those values are, but if it involves racism. _ those values are, but if it involves racism. then— those values are, but if it involves racism, then yes, i do not share them. _ racism, then yes, i do not share them. , ., , , racism, then yes, i do not share them. , ., _ racism, then yes, i do not share them. ,., _ .. them. obviously, gary ballance has issued an apology. _ them. obviously, gary ballance has issued an apology. about _ them. obviously, gary ballance has issued an apology. about his i issued an apology. about his behaviour. saying it was, ithink the phrase he used was a friendly verbal attack. what do you make of that? , ., ., .,, verbal attack. what do you make of that? , ., ., ., that? first and foremost, i did not see that gary _ that? first and foremost, i did not see that gary actually _ that? first and foremost, i did not see that gary actually apologised. | see that gary actually apologised. in see that gary actually apologised. in that _ see that gary actually apologised. in that statement. i wanted, throughout, like i said, this panel and the _ throughout, like i said, this panel and the lawyers and yorkshire hierarchy— and the lawyers and yorkshire hierarchy have made this about individuals. i want to make sure it does _ individuals. i want to make sure it does not — individuals. i want to make sure it does not become about that. but i think— does not become about that. but i think all— does not become about that. but i think all i— does not become about that. but i think all i have ever, and even on the day— think all i have ever, and even on the day that— think all i have ever, and even on the day that gary got named, i actually— the day that gary got named, i actually tried for him not to get named — actually tried for him not to get named because i knew once people started _ named because i knew once people started getting named it would become — started getting named it would become an uncomfortable place for a lot of— become an uncomfortable place for a lot of people and individuals are going _ lot of people and individuals are going to — lot of people and individuals are going to have a tough time. but i think— going to have a tough time. but i think the — going to have a tough time. but i think the responsibility here and for we _ think the responsibility here and for we are — think the responsibility here and for we are at, at the hands of yorkshire. _ for we are at, at the hands of yorkshire, the chief executive mark arthur. _ yorkshire, the chief executive mark arthur, martin manston, and the lawyers. — arthur, martin manston, and the lawyers, and i think the panel, people — lawyers, and i think the panel, people who have read the report, it's, people who have read the report, its. it's _ people who have read the report, it's, it's staggering. there is a lot of— it's, it's staggering. there is a lot of things in there that beggars belief— lot of things in there that beggars belief and i hope the report can be published — belief and i hope the report can be published so people, not only the people _ published so people, not only the people who were perpetrators but the people _ people who were perpetrators but the people who were perpetrators but the people who have excused this sort of behaviour. _ people who have excused this sort of behaviour, can be held accountable. on that— behaviour, can be held accountable. on that point about individuals, michael vaughan has said, i think he said yesterday, his reputation is being trashed unfairly. what is your reaction to that? i being trashed unfairly. what is your reaction to that?— reaction to that? i think it's important _ reaction to that? i think it's important on _ reaction to that? i think it's important on michael i reaction to that? i think it's important on michael that l reaction to that? i think it's i important on michael that we do reaction to that? i think it's - important on michael that we do not make _ important on michael that we do not make it _ important on michael that we do not make it all— important on michael that we do not make it all about michael. it was a lon- make it all about michael. it was a long time — make it all about michael. it was a long time ago. michael might not remember it, as i said earlier, because — remember it, as i said earlier, because it _ remember it, as i said earlier, because it does not mean anything to him but _ because it does not mean anything to him but three of us, including myself. — him but three of us, including myself, we remember it, i spoke to one person — myself, we remember it, i spoke to one person directly at length about this, one person directly at length about this. and _ one person directly at length about this, and michael used his platform at the _ this, and michael used his platform at the daily telegraph to try and discredit — at the daily telegraph to try and discredit before even anything has been _ discredit before even anything has been spoken about and again, he clearly— been spoken about and again, he clearly had a snippet of my statement. i was promised that anyone. — statement. i was promised that anyone, when i make allegations about— anyone, when i make allegations about people, it would be put to them _ about people, it would be put to them and — about people, it would be put to them and when allegations are made about— them and when allegations are made about me. _ them and when allegations are made about me, it would be put to me but the process— about me, it would be put to me but the process was not followed me so he used _ the process was not followed me so he used his— the process was not followed me so he used his platform at the daily telegraph to tell everyone that he had not _ telegraph to tell everyone that he had not said these things but then, to go— had not said these things but then, to go on— had not said these things but then, to go on and put a snippet of my statement — to go on and put a snippet of my statement out and then talk about other— statement out and then talk about other things, statement out and then talk about otherthings, i statement out and then talk about other things, i thought that was completely wrong. like i said, he probably— completely wrong. like i said, he probably does not remember it because — probably does not remember it because it does not mean anything to him. ., . ,., . him. you referenced the report. we are not publishing _ him. you referenced the report. we are not publishing the _ him. you referenced the report. we are not publishing the report, i him. you referenced the report. we are not publishing the report, on i are not publishing the report, on advice, but what is something of interest to me is the scope of the report was originally, the terms of reference originally were changed halfway through. to stop the law firm from making a finding on further yorkshire cricket club was institutionally racist. did you notice that when you read the report and do you have a view about that as to why that might have happened, it's obviously a question we can put to others but i wonder what your view was. �* ., . view was. i've noticed it when i got the report. — view was. i've noticed it when i got the report. i _ view was. i've noticed it when i got the report. i did — view was. i've noticed it when i got the report, i did not _ view was. i've noticed it when i got the report, i did not find _ the report, i did not find out through— the report, i did not find out through the process. throughout this whole _ through the process. throughout this whole process, ithink through the process. throughout this whole process, i think i spoke, i think— whole process, i think i spoke, i think they— whole process, i think i spoke, i think they had this feeling, like it happens — think they had this feeling, like it happens generally when someone talks about their— happens generally when someone talks about their feelings and stuff, on subjects — about their feelings and stuff, on subjects that are uncomfortable, it is difficult — subjects that are uncomfortable, it is difficult to prove. whenever there — is difficult to prove. whenever there is... _ is difficult to prove. whenever there is... i— is difficult to prove. whenever there is... i mean, the problem is that— there is... i mean, the problem is that big _ there is... i mean, the problem is that big of— there is... i mean, the problem is that big of yorkshire, they did not even _ that big of yorkshire, they did not even care. — that big of yorkshire, they did not even care, there is internal e—mails to back— even care, there is internal e—mails to back up — even care, there is internal e—mails to back up my stuff, board minutes. and when— to back up my stuff, board minutes. and when i— to back up my stuff, board minutes. and when i presented my evidence, i felt straightaway they was like right. — felt straightaway they was like right, we have a problem here, how do we _ right, we have a problem here, how do we take — right, we have a problem here, how do we take it — right, we have a problem here, how do we take it in a completely different— do we take it in a completely different angle and i think that is what _ different angle and i think that is what they have tried to do. they said. _ what they have tried to do. they said. for— what they have tried to do. they said, for the delays, the law firm, and international law firm, apparently struggled to spell a name properly— apparently struggled to spell a name properly and that is the reason for one of— properly and that is the reason for one of the — properly and that is the reason for one of the delays. the whole thing is staggering. the panel, the last e-mail_ is staggering. the panel, the last e-mail we — is staggering. the panel, the last e—mail we had from one of the doctors. — e—mail we had from one of the doctors, explaining to us what would happen— doctors, explaining to us what would happen next. we e—mailed to this day and to— happen next. we e—mailed to this day and to this _ happen next. we e—mailed to this day and to this day we do not have a response — and to this day we do not have a response or— and to this day we do not have a response or i think the way the whole — response or i think the way the whole thing... i feel there's three facets— whole thing... i feel there's three facets to — whole thing... i feel there's three facets to this, my career and what happened. — facets to this, my career and what happened, this investigation, independent investigation which has been far— independent investigation which has been far from independent and then the cover— been far from independent and then the cover up. members of the panel, while _ the cover up. members of the panel, while this— the cover up. members of the panel, while this investigation was live, were _ while this investigation was live, were being entertained by yorkshire county— were being entertained by yorkshire county day county cricket club at the test — county day county cricket club at the test match at headingley shows the test match at headingley shows the arrogance of these people, that they felt _ the arrogance of these people, that they felt so untouchable, little old azeem _ they felt so untouchable, little old azeem rafiq, no one will believe him and we _ azeem rafiq, no one will believe him and we will— azeem rafiq, no one will believe him and we will discredit him. canl and we will discredit him. can i finally ask— and we will discredit him. can i finally ask you _ and we will discredit him. can i finally ask you and _ and we will discredit him. can i finally ask you and you - and we will discredit him. can i finally ask you and you may i and we will discredit him. can i | finally ask you and you may not and we will discredit him. cari i finally ask you and you may not be able to answer this, one of my constituents wrote to me and said they have been writing a book which has a chapter on the subject of discrimination in sport and cricket. and that one of the people they interviewed was your sister, anna, who works for leicestershire or has done work for leicestershire cricket club. have you spoken to her about the work that she has done their and i suppose my question is, is there evidence through that work of this being a much wider problem in cricket? ma; being a much wider problem in cricket? y . , being a much wider problem in cricket? g . , ., being a much wider problem in cricket? y . , ., ~' ., being a much wider problem in cricket? g . , ., ,, ., . cricket? my family did not know what i was cricket? my family did not know what iwas atoin cricket? my family did not know what i was going through _ cricket? my family did not know what i was going through until— cricket? my family did not know what i was going through until last - cricket? my family did not know what i was going through until last year i i was going through until last year when _ i was going through until last year when i _ i was going through until last year when i did — i was going through until last year when i did the interview on sky. they— when i did the interview on sky. they were — when i did the interview on sky. they were not aware of it. i have spoken _ they were not aware of it. i have spoken to — they were not aware of it. i have spoken to anna at length since. and she has— spoken to anna at length since. and she has opened up about her experiences at leicester. and i have no doubt _ experiences at leicester. and i have no doubt whatsoever that this is a problem _ no doubt whatsoever that this is a problem up and down the country. leicester— problem up and down the country. leicester has a massive, specifically, a massive asian community and hardly any representation. and they have had a chief executive, the first british asian _ chief executive, the first british asian chief executive for a few years — asian chief executive for a few years in— asian chief executive for a few years in wasim khan. and from everyone — years in wasim khan. and from everyone i— years in wasim khan. and from everyone i have spoken to, that did more _ everyone i have spoken to, that did more damage and unfortunately, it is the fear— more damage and unfortunately, it is the fear of— more damage and unfortunately, it is the fear of the institution or whatever it is within our own community. i have not shied away from _ community. i have not shied away from saying — community. i have not shied away from saying the truth. even when it has been _ from saying the truth. even when it has been difficult to hear, whether it's from _ has been difficult to hear, whether it's from myself, my own community or my— it's from myself, my own community or my family. — it's from myself, my own community or my family. but throughout this whole _ or my family. but throughout this whole process, my own community and a lot of— whole process, my own community and a lot of businesses in bradford have been helping yorkshire try and cover up. for— been helping yorkshire try and cover up. forwhatever been helping yorkshire try and cover up. for whatever reason, whether that's— up. for whatever reason, whether that's fear— up. for whatever reason, whether that's fear of the institution or wanting — that's fear of the institution or wanting to progress themselves. and itiust _ wanting to progress themselves. and itjust shows how wanting to progress themselves. and it just shows how difficult this issue — it just shows how difficult this issue is— it just shows how difficult this issue is and how big the problem is. i issue is and how big the problem is. ithink— issue is and how big the problem is. i think if— issue is and how big the problem is. i think if people had taken terry rooney— i think if people had taken terry rooney 's — i think if people had taken terry rooney 's experience in 2004 or that of imran— rooney 's experience in 2004 or that of imran khan, a bit more as let's learn _ of imran khan, a bit more as let's learn from — of imran khan, a bit more as let's learn from it _ of imran khan, a bit more as let's learn from it and let's make proper change. _ learn from it and let's make proper change, then we would not be here today. _ change, then we would not be here today. but — change, then we would not be here today. but unfortunately, as it has shown _ today. but unfortunately, as it has shown over — today. but unfortunately, as it has shown over the last 15 months, people — shown over the last 15 months, people just do not want to listen, it is uncomfortable, good people, good _ it is uncomfortable, good people, good people who are not racist want to look— good people who are not racist want to look the — good people who are not racist want to look the other way.— to look the other way. thank you. just to to look the other way. thank you. just to clarify _ to look the other way. thank you. just to clarify it — to look the other way. thank you. just to clarify it we _ to look the other way. thank you. just to clarify it we will _ to look the other way. thank you. just to clarify it we will publish i just to clarify it we will publish your witness statement to the committee in full at the end of this hearing. we are not choosing to publish the report, frankly, it is yorkshire 's mess, they should be the ones publishing this and explaining themselves rather than hoping a parliamentary committee will do it for them so they do not get sued. but, to be very clear, every word you have put in your witness statement will be in the public domain at the end of the session. clive and thenjulie. chair, thank you. thank you for coming to give evidence today. you have mentioned you do not want this to be just have mentioned you do not want this to bejust eight have mentioned you do not want this to be just eight yorkshire issue. you think it's wider in the game, you havejust answered you think it's wider in the game, you have just answered you think there are issues at leicestershire, for instance. but he went to derby for instance. but he went to derby for a period, you seemed to have had a happy experience so could you tell us a little bit about what your experience there was? and how widespread you feel this problem is within the game of cricket and beyond, actually, because other sports like football have similar problems in the higher echelons, we do not see the representation on the pitch. what are your comments? i had pitch. what are your comments? i had the most enjoyable _ pitch. what are your comments? i had the most enjoyable month on loan at derby. _ the most enjoyable month on loan at derby. from the moment i got there. the captain— derby. from the moment i got there. the captain and the coach made me feel welcome, valued. the captain and the coach made me feelwelcome, valued. i have the captain and the coach made me feel welcome, valued. i have nothing but good _ feel welcome, valued. i have nothing but good words to say about my time at derby— but good words to say about my time at derby but it was only a short time. _ at derby but it was only a short time. i— at derby but it was only a short time. i do— at derby but it was only a short time. i do not know what their dealings — time. i do not know what their dealings is below that level but representation again, is in short. but i _ representation again, is in short. but i cannot— representation again, is in short. but i cannot speak highly enough of my little _ but i cannot speak highly enough of my little stint there for a month. in yorkshire, there is a whole hierarchy of cricket that has been set up around south asian cricketers because of the ceiling that there was, the lack of opportunity to get through into first—class cricket. is that different from other counties in your experience? is that different from other counties in your experience?— in your experience? is there something _ in your experience? is there something peculiar - in your experience? is there something peculiar to i in your experience? is there i something peculiar to yorkshire? in your experience? is there - something peculiar to yorkshire? i'm sorry. _ something peculiar to yorkshire? i'm sorry. i— something peculiar to yorkshire? i'm sorry. ido— something peculiar to yorkshire? i'm sorry, i do not understand your question. — sorry, i do not understand your question. in sorry, i do not understand your cuestion. sorry, i do not understand your question-— sorry, i do not understand your cuestion. , , , . question. in the sense there is a whole pyramid _ question. in the sense there is a whole pyramid of _ question. in the sense there is a whole pyramid of cricket - question. in the sense there is a whole pyramid of cricket in i whole pyramid of cricket in yorkshire. around south asian cricketers. and set up by them over the last 50 years. and that seems to have been set up because there was a lack of opportunity to get into first day first—class cricket. is that, in your experience, oryour knowledge, is that commonplace in cricket or is that peculiar to yorkshire? i cricket or is that peculiar to yorkshire?— cricket or is that peculiar to yorkshire? ,, , ., . yorkshire? i think you mean the leatues yorkshire? i think you mean the leagues that _ yorkshire? i think you mean the leagues that have _ yorkshire? i think you mean the leagues that have been - yorkshire? i think you mean the leagues that have been set i yorkshire? i think you mean the leagues that have been set up. | yorkshire? i think you mean the| leagues that have been set up. i yorkshire? i think you mean the i leagues that have been set up. i do not think— leagues that have been set up. i do not think they help. but i think people — not think they help. but i think people got sick and tired of not being _ people got sick and tired of not being given opportunities. and the problem _ being given opportunities. and the problem is notjust, this is where the ecb _ problem is notjust, this is where the ecb needs to take control because — the ecb needs to take control because we had a situation over the winter. _ because we had a situation over the winter, coincidentally, my local club. _ winter, coincidentally, my local club, barnsley, and their chairman, described _ club, barnsley, and their chairman, described an — club, barnsley, and their chairman, described an overseas player from the west — described an overseas player from the west indies, and he put on facebook— the west indies, and he put on facebook that this guy, he was selling — facebook that this guy, he was selling sunglasses to be in tenerife. the problem is actually right— tenerife. the problem is actually right at— tenerife. the problem is actually right at the bottom. and it means the ecb _ right at the bottom. and it means the ecb needs to look where their money— the ecb needs to look where their money is — the ecb needs to look where their money is going and make sure the people _ money is going and make sure the people responsible for young kids coming _ people responsible for young kids coming into the game at an early age are educated. for what is right and wrong. _ are educated. for what is right and wrong. and — are educated. for what is right and wrong. and i think for too long the ecb has _ wrong. and i think for too long the ecb has not — wrong. and i think for too long the ecb has not done enough. can i ask ou about ecb has not done enough. can i ask you about the _ ecb has not done enough. can i ask you about the ecb. _ ecb has not done enough. can i ask you about the ecb. this _ ecb has not done enough. can i ask you about the ecb. this whole i you about the ecb. this whole situation in yorkshire has been in the open for quite some time. are you approach the door by the ecb when you made your complaints now? yes. when george published his article _ yes. when george published his article i— yes. when george published his article i had a phone call from tom harrison. _ article i had a phone call from tom harrison. i— article i had a phone call from tom harrison. i subsequently had a zoom call with— harrison. i subsequently had a zoom call with him. i felt like he was listening. _ call with him. i felt like he was listening. but then they took the stance _ listening. but then they took the stance that they are going to trust yorkshire — stance that they are going to trust yorkshire to do the right thing and then as _ yorkshire to do the right thing and then as regulators, coming to sort of hold _ then as regulators, coming to sort of hold yorkshire to account. constitutionally, i do not know how that works. — constitutionally, i do not know how that works. but it was difficult for me to _ that works. but it was difficult for me to take. through the winter. because — me to take. through the winter. because i— me to take. through the winter. because i kept begging the ecb, the pca, because i kept begging the ecb, the pca. the _ because i kept begging the ecb, the pca, the pca kept telling me, we agree _ pca, the pca kept telling me, we agree with — pca, the pca kept telling me, we agree with yorkshire, independent investigation but i am telling them they are _ investigation but i am telling them they are not doing the right thing, they are not doing the right thing, they are _ they are not doing the right thing, they are changing processes, not communicating with me and this will end up— communicating with me and this will end up in— communicating with me and this will end up in a _ communicating with me and this will end up in a car crash for everyone, please _ end up in a car crash for everyone, please step— end up in a car crash for everyone, please step in. at no point did any of the _ please step in. at no point did any of the organisations want to do that. _ of the organisations want to do that. until, really, to be honest, on that— that. until, really, to be honest, on that monday when the article broke. _ on that monday when the article broke, the sponsors think, once the sponsors— broke, the sponsors think, once the sponsors started going and the mps started _ sponsors started going and the mps started being vocal about it, it was at that _ started being vocal about it, it was at that point the ecb came in and i am sure— at that point the ecb came in and i am sure they will be asked this, they— am sure they will be asked this, they will— am sure they will be asked this, they will have their reasons. but on a human— they will have their reasons. but on a human point, ifelt they will have their reasons. but on a human point, i felt like they will have their reasons. but on a human point, ifelt like if someone _ a human point, ifelt like if someone else had told me that they were suicidal and then he was ringing — were suicidal and then he was ringing you saying, please help, please _ ringing you saying, please help, please help, iwould ringing you saying, please help, please help, i would forget the constitution and any regulatory and i constitution and any regulatory and i would _ constitution and any regulatory and i would jump straight in and go we need _ i would jump straight in and go we need to— i would jump straight in and go we need to help the human because it left me _ need to help the human because it left me over the winter, there's been _ left me over the winter, there's been some _ left me over the winter, there's been some really dark moments and at one point. _ been some really dark moments and at one point, the pca, they actually called _ one point, the pca, they actually called the — one point, the pca, they actually called the police. and reported missing. — called the police. and reported missing. which was, like, iam called the police. and reported missing. which was, like, i am sat with my— missing. which was, like, i am sat with my family and i get a phone call saying, you have been reported missing. _ call saying, you have been reported missing. and i did not feel like that was— missing. and i did not feel like that was something, they did that because _ that was something, they did that because they were concerned or worried — because they were concerned or worried about me. i felt like that was done — worried about me. i felt like that was done to tick a box in case i killed _ was done to tick a box in case i killed myself and they could say, well. _ killed myself and they could say, well. we — killed myself and they could say, well, we did what we could. you were in retular well, we did what we could. you were in regular contact _ well, we did what we could. you were in regular contact with _ well, we did what we could. you were in regular contact with the _ well, we did what we could. you were in regular contact with the ecb - in regular contact with the ecb after the publication of the article and you are making it clear to them what your emotional state was and it was their failure to intervene? i wouldn't say regular but i made it clear— wouldn't say regular but i made it clear to _ wouldn't say regular but i made it clear to them several times through the winter. — clear to them several times through the winter, but i was in regular contact — the winter, but i was in regular contact with the pca. i found them incredibly— contact with the pca. i found them incredibly inept. it was, we have members — incredibly inept. it was, we have members on both sides. so you are protecting — members on both sides. so you are protecting the perpetrators and you have no— protecting the perpetrators and you have no interest in where this is taking _ have no interest in where this is taking me — have no interest in where this is taking me through the —— the pca said once — taking me through the —— the pca said once this comes out we will support— said once this comes out we will support you. and then when the report— support you. and then when the report came out, they said they had no powers— report came out, they said they had no powers to push the ecb. so an organisation that should have been there _ organisation that should have been there for— organisation that should have been there for me and supported me left me on— there for me and supported me left me on my— there for me and supported me left me on my own anti fight my own. the ennui , me on my own anti fight my own. the enquiry. the — me on my own anti fight my own. tie: enquiry, the investigation, there were a lot of people who didn't respond to invites to give evidence. why do you think that was? faithful, not trustin: why do you think that was? faithful, not trusting yorkshire. _ why do you think that was? faithful, not trusting yorkshire. they - why do you think that was? faithful, not trusting yorkshire. they know i not trusting yorkshire. they know they have — not trusting yorkshire. they know they have done wrong, some of them. lawyers. _ they have done wrong, some of them. lawyers. i— they have done wrong, some of them. lawyers, i think the list could go on. it— lawyers, i think the list could go on. it is— lawyers, i think the list could go on. it is for— lawyers, i think the list could go on. it is for them to answer why they— on. it is for them to answer why they didn't _ on. it is for them to answer why they didn't play a part. the way this investigation was done was, i mean. _ this investigation was done was, i mean. best— this investigation was done was, i mean, best described as shoddy. an international law firm i found staggering when i heard they couldn't— staggering when i heard they couldn't spell properly. they have not contacted, to this day they have not contacted, to this day they have not contacted, to this day they have not contacted certain people who publicly— not contacted certain people who publicly came out and back to me. age-group — publicly came out and back to me. age—group coaches who have publicly talked _ age—group coaches who have publicly talked about they got told, take a few of— talked about they got told, take a few of them but not too many of those _ few of them but not too many of those expletive. and it is not an example — those expletive. and it is not an example to — those expletive. and it is not an example to be set for young people moving _ example to be set for young people moving forward. it has been done very shoddily and i think people have _ very shoddily and i think people have declined to play a part, they need _ have declined to play a part, they need to— have declined to play a part, they need to answer why. do have declined to play a part, they need to answer why.— have declined to play a part, they need to answer why. do you think yorkshire at _ need to answer why. do you think yorkshire at all— need to answer why. do you think yorkshire at all made _ need to answer why. do you think yorkshire at all made an - need to answer why. do you think yorkshire at all made an attempt| need to answer why. do you think. yorkshire at all made an attempt to reassure those people and get them to give evidence in this process? to be honest, i don't know what yorkshire _ be honest, i don't know what yorkshire has done. my think yorkshire _ yorkshire has done. my think yorkshire throughout has tried to discredit — yorkshire throughout has tried to discredit me, brief about me, be in denial. _ discredit me, brief about me, be in denial. i— discredit me, brief about me, be in denial. i don't think they have had any interest. even as we stand now, mark— any interest. even as we stand now, mark arthur— any interest. even as we stand now, mark arthur resigned and the resignation had no remorse, it was more _ resignation had no remorse, it was more a _ resignation had no remorse, it was more a cv— resignation had no remorse, it was more a cv about how he had signed a catering _ more a cv about how he had signed a catering contract at headingley, which _ catering contract at headingley, which shows the attitude of these people. _ which shows the attitude of these people. let which shows the attitude of these --eole. . which shows the attitude of these --eole. , . ., people. let me put it another way, do ou people. let me put it another way, do you think _ people. let me put it another way, do you think the _ people. let me put it another way, do you think the treatment - people. let me put it another way, do you think the treatment of- people. let me put it another way, do you think the treatment of you | do you think the treatment of you was likely to encourage people to come forward and participate in the investigation? i come forward and participate in the investigation?— investigation? i think now, possibly- _ investigation? i think now, possibly. but _ investigation? i think now, possibly. but for _ investigation? i think now, possibly. but for a - investigation? i think now, possibly. but for a long i investigation? i think now, i possibly. but for a long time through— possibly. but for a long time through the 15 months, no. why would you come _ through the 15 months, no. why would you come forward? your family gets brought— you come forward? your family gets brought into it, your wife gets nailed — brought into it, your wife gets nailed on _ brought into it, your wife gets nailed on social media, your sisters _ nailed on social media, your sister's life is made help. your dad is suffering. — sister's life is made help. your dad is suffering-— is suffering. why would you? last cuestion, is suffering. why would you? last question. given — is suffering. why would you? last question, given how— is suffering. why would you? last question, given how widespread l is suffering. why would you? last i question, given how widespread and open you have described the racism at yorkshire, in your opinion, do you think the people at the top of the cricket club could have possibly been aware at the level of racism that was taking place in the club? from the minute they come in, people coming _ from the minute they come in, people coming in _ from the minute they come in, people coming in as— from the minute they come in, people coming in as 16—year—old players they— coming in as 16—year—old players theyiust — coming in as 16—year—old players theyjust see their seniors behind in that— theyjust see their seniors behind in that mannerand theyjust see their seniors behind in that manner and they think it is acceptable. — in that manner and they think it is acceptable. no one has ever said them. _ acceptable. no one has ever said them, stop. they could have had that excuse _ them, stop. they could have had that excuse before i spoke to them. but after i _ excuse before i spoke to them. but after i spoke to them, there was no excuse. _ after i spoke to them, there was no excuse. i— after i spoke to them, there was no excuse. i made it perfectly clear in as much— excuse. i made it perfectly clear in as much detail as i possibly could, what _ as much detail as i possibly could, what i _ as much detail as i possibly could, what i had — as much detail as i possibly could, what i had felt and what other people — what i had felt and what other people had felt. other people are still fearful of coming forward at yorkshire. — still fearful of coming forward at yorkshire, but i think to say they wear— yorkshire, but i think to say they wear underwear would be an excuse for them. _ wear underwear would be an excuse for them. we need to get away from excuses— for them. we need to get away from excuses for— for them. we need to get away from excuses for any of these individuals.— excuses for any of these individuals. . ,, , ., . ,, , ., individuals. thank you. thank you for coming _ individuals. thank you. thank you for coming and _ individuals. thank you. thank you for coming and talking _ individuals. thank you. thank you for coming and talking to - individuals. thank you. thank you for coming and talking to us i individuals. thank you. thank you | for coming and talking to us today. i for coming and talking to us today. i want _ for coming and talking to us today. i want to— for coming and talking to us today. i want to start _ for coming and talking to us today. i want to start by _ for coming and talking to us today. i want to start by quoting - for coming and talking to us today. i i want to start by quoting something back you _ i want to start by quoting something back you said — i want to start by quoting something back you said earlier— i want to start by quoting something back you said earlier in _ i want to start by quoting something back you said earlier in evidence i back you said earlier in evidence where _ back you said earlier in evidence where you — back you said earlier in evidence where you said. _ back you said earlier in evidence where you said, it— back you said earlier in evidence where you said, it is— back you said earlier in evidence where you said, it is only- back you said earlier in evidence where you said, it is only little l where you said, it is only little azeem — where you said, it is only little azeem rafig. _ where you said, it is only little azeem rafiq, no— where you said, it is only little azeem rafiq, no one - where you said, it is only little azeem rafiq, no one will- where you said, it is only little i azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. _ azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can — azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can i — azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can hust— azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can ijust say, _ azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can ijust say, i— azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can ijust say, i believe i azeem rafiq, no one will believe him. can ijust say, i believe youj him. can ijust say, i believe you and i— him. can ijust say, i believe you and i am — him. can ijust say, i believe you and i am sure _ him. can ijust say, i believe you and i am sure this _ him. can ijust say, i believe you and i am sure this committee i and i am sure this committee believes— and i am sure this committee believes you. _ and i am sure this committee believes you.— and i am sure this committee i believes you._ please believes you. thank you. please don't think— believes you. thank you. please don't think for _ believes you. thank you. please don't think for one _ believes you. thank you. please don't think for one second i believes you. thank you. please don't think for one second this l don't think for one second this committee _ don't think for one second this committee doesn't _ don't think for one second this committee doesn't believe i don't think for one second this. committee doesn't believe you, don't think for one second this i committee doesn't believe you, and don't think for one second this - committee doesn't believe you, and i think most— committee doesn't believe you, and i think most people _ committee doesn't believe you, and i think most people in _ committee doesn't believe you, and i think most people in the _ committee doesn't believe you, and i think most people in the country- think most people in the country will believe _ think most people in the country will believe you. _ think most people in the country will believe you. you _ think most people in the country will believe you. you have - think most people in the country| will believe you. you have talked about _ will believe you. you have talked about some _ will believe you. you have talked about some of _ will believe you. you have talked about some of the _ will believe you. you have talked about some of the apologies i will believe you. you have talked about some of the apologies you j about some of the apologies you clearly _ about some of the apologies you clearly don't _ about some of the apologies you clearly don't feel— about some of the apologies you clearly don't feel are _ about some of the apologies you clearly don't feel are real- clearly don't feel are real apologies— clearly don't feel are real apologies that _ clearly don't feel are real apologies that a - clearly don't feel are real apologies that a number| clearly don't feel are real. apologies that a number of clearly don't feel are real- apologies that a number of people have said. — apologies that a number of people have said. you _ apologies that a number of people have said. you don't— apologies that a number of people have said. you don't want- apologies that a number of people have said. you don't want to - apologies that a number of people have said. you don't want to talk i have said. you don't want to talk about— have said. you don't want to talk about individuals, _ have said. you don't want to talk about individuals, that— have said. you don't want to talk about individuals, that is- have said. you don't want to talk about individuals, that is fair- about individuals, that is fair enough. _ about individuals, that is fair enough. have— about individuals, that is fair enough. have any— about individuals, that is fair enough. have any of- about individuals, that is fair enough. have any of the i about individuals, that is fair. enough. have any of the people discussed — enough. have any of the people discussed here _ enough. have any of the people discussed here or— enough. have any of the people discussed here or any— enough. have any of the people discussed here or any of - enough. have any of the people discussed here or any of the i enough. have any of the people i discussed here or any of the people who have _ discussed here or any of the people who have given— discussed here or any of the people who have given these _ discussed here or any of the people who have given these kind - discussed here or any of the people who have given these kind of- who have given these kind of apologies _ who have given these kind of apologies reached _ who have given these kind of apologies reached out- who have given these kind of apologies reached out to i who have given these kind of apologies reached out to youj apologies reached out to you privately— apologies reached out to you privately and _ apologies reached out to you privately and apologise - apologies reached out to you privately and apologise to i apologies reached out to youi privately and apologise to you personally? _ privately and apologise to you personally?— privately and apologise to you ersonall ? �* , . personally? after my sky interview the next morning _ personally? after my sky interview the next morning i _ personally? after my sky interview the next morning i had _ personally? after my sky interview the next morning i had a _ personally? after my sky interview the next morning i had a phone i personally? after my sky interview| the next morning i had a phone call from _ the next morning i had a phone call from matthew hoggard. he said basically, i didn't realise and i am basically, ididn't realise and i am really— basically, i didn't realise and i am really sorry — basically, i didn't realise and i am really sorry if some of the comments i really sorry if some of the comments i made _ really sorry if some of the comments i made made you feel the way you have _ i made made you feel the way you have described. ijust want to apologise. you know what? when someone — apologise. you know what? when someone does that, i was like, thank you, someone does that, i was like, thank you. really— someone does that, i was like, thank you, really appreciate it. i bumped into a _ you, really appreciate it. i bumped into a friend a few months after and he just— into a friend a few months after and he just said. — into a friend a few months after and he just said, i didn't realise. we he just said, ididn't realise. we didn't— he just said, i didn't realise. we didn't realise we were having that effect _ didn't realise we were having that effect on — didn't realise we were having that effect on you, if we did we would have _ effect on you, if we did we would have stopped. i am very sorry. i am appreciative — have stopped. i am very sorry. i am appreciative of the apology because that is— appreciative of the apology because that is all— appreciative of the apology because that is all i wanted, and acceptance, an apology. i would like to ask _ acceptance, an apology. i would like to ask martyn moxon, still to this day why— to ask martyn moxon, still to this day why he — to ask martyn moxon, still to this day why he thought it was the right thing _ day why he thought it was the right thing to— day why he thought it was the right thing to do after the loss of my son. _ thing to do after the loss of my son. but — thing to do after the loss of my son. but apart from that all i have ever wanted is some sort of acceptance and apology and let's work _ acceptance and apology and let's work together to make sure it doesn't — work together to make sure it doesn't happen to my kids. so i can let my— doesn't happen to my kids. so i can let my kids— doesn't happen to my kids. so i can let my kids go and play cricket. this— let my kids go and play cricket. this committee have looked at racism in other— this committee have looked at racism in other sports — this committee have looked at racism in other sports over— this committee have looked at racism in other sports over the _ this committee have looked at racism in other sports over the years - this committee have looked at racism in other sports over the years i- in other sports over the years i have _ in other sports over the years i have been— in other sports over the years i have been on— in other sports over the years i have been on this _ in other sports over the years i have been on this committee. i in other sports over the years i- have been on this committee. and other— have been on this committee. and other issues. — have been on this committee. and other issues, whether— have been on this committee. and other issues, whether it _ have been on this committee. and other issues, whether it is- have been on this committee. and other issues, whether it is equal. other issues, whether it is equal pay or— other issues, whether it is equal pay or discrimination _ other issues, whether it is equal pay or discrimination on - other issues, whether it is equal pay or discrimination on the i other issues, whether it is equal- pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender. _ pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender. also— pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender, also lots _ pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender, also lots of— pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender, also lots of issues - pay or discrimination on the grounds of gender, also lots of issues we i of gender, also lots of issues we have _ of gender, also lots of issues we have tackled _ of gender, also lots of issues we have tackled in _ of gender, also lots of issues we have tackled in sport. _ of gender, also lots of issues we have tackled in sport. part - of gender, also lots of issues we have tackled in sport. part of. of gender, also lots of issues we| have tackled in sport. part of the problem — have tackled in sport. part of the problem is, _ have tackled in sport. part of the problem is, sometimes- have tackled in sport. part of the problem is, sometimes when - have tackled in sport. part of the - problem is, sometimes when people are confronted — problem is, sometimes when people are confronted and _ problem is, sometimes when people are confronted and if— problem is, sometimes when people are confronted and if they— problem is, sometimes when people are confronted and if they say, - problem is, sometimes when people are confronted and if they say, we i are confronted and if they say, we had no _ are confronted and if they say, we had no idea — are confronted and if they say, we had no idea and _ are confronted and if they say, we had no idea and we _ are confronted and if they say, we had no idea and we are _ are confronted and if they say, we had no idea and we are really- are confronted and if they say, we| had no idea and we are really sorry and start— had no idea and we are really sorry and start to — had no idea and we are really sorry and start to do _ had no idea and we are really sorry and start to do something - had no idea and we are really sorry and start to do something about i had no idea and we are really sorry| and start to do something about it. but from _ and start to do something about it. but from what _ and start to do something about it. but from what you _ and start to do something about it. but from what you have _ and start to do something about it. but from what you have been - and start to do something about it. l but from what you have been saying, in general _ but from what you have been saying, in general that — but from what you have been saying, in general that has— but from what you have been saying, in general that has not— but from what you have been saying, in general that has not happened. . in general that has not happened. tell me _ in general that has not happened. tell me if— in general that has not happened. tell me if t — in general that has not happened. tell me if i am _ in general that has not happened. tell me if i am describing - in general that has not happened. tell me if i am describing this- tell me if i am describing this wrong, — tell me if i am describing this wrong, but _ tell me if i am describing this wrong, but my— tell me if i am describing this wrong, but my interpretation| tell me if i am describing this. wrong, but my interpretation of tell me if i am describing this- wrong, but my interpretation of what you have _ wrong, but my interpretation of what you have been — wrong, but my interpretation of what you have been telling _ wrong, but my interpretation of what you have been telling us _ wrong, but my interpretation of what you have been telling us is, - wrong, but my interpretation of what you have been telling us is, the - you have been telling us is, the thought— you have been telling us is, the thought that _ you have been telling us is, the thought that if _ you have been telling us is, the thought that if we _ you have been telling us is, the thought that if we have - you have been telling us is, the thought that if we have a - you have been telling us is, the . thought that if we have a problem then sponsors _ thought that if we have a problem then sponsors will— thought that if we have a problem then sponsors will be _ thought that if we have a problem| then sponsors will be disappearing and people — then sponsors will be disappearing and people are _ then sponsors will be disappearing and people are looking _ then sponsors will be disappearing and people are looking at - then sponsors will be disappearing and people are looking at us- then sponsors will be disappearing and people are looking at us but. then sponsors will be disappearing i and people are looking at us but not acknowledging — and people are looking at us but not acknowledging a _ and people are looking at us but not acknowledging a problem _ and people are looking at us but not acknowledging a problem in- and people are looking at us but not acknowledging a problem in the - and people are looking at us but not acknowledging a problem in the way they have _ acknowledging a problem in the way they have been _ acknowledging a problem in the way they have been behaving. _ acknowledging a problem in the way they have been behaving. and - acknowledging a problem in the way they have been behaving. and that. acknowledging a problem in the way| they have been behaving. and that a senior— they have been behaving. and that a senior level. — they have been behaving. and that a senior level, the _ they have been behaving. and that a senior level, the ready— they have been behaving. and that a senior level, the ready have - they have been behaving. and that a senior level, the ready have been i senior level, the ready have been nranaging — senior level, the ready have been manauain. . ., . senior level, the ready have been managing-— managing. have i got that right? that is it, managing. have i got that right? that is it. i _ managing. have i got that right? that is it, | just _ managing. have i got that right? that is it, i just don't _ managing. have i got that right? that is it, i just don't think - managing. have i got that right? that is it, i just don't think the l that is it, ijust don't think the game — that is it, ijust don't think the game wants to listen. i have heard other— game wants to listen. i have heard other counties running around trying to wring _ other counties running around trying to wring south asian players to see if they— to wring south asian players to see if they can — to wring south asian players to see if they can offer them some roles somewhere in the hope that no one comes— somewhere in the hope that no one comes forward and talks about their experience — comes forward and talks about their experience. if they, if the game as a whole _ experience. if they, if the game as a whole are — experience. if they, if the game as a whole are taken the approach of, a whistle—blower hotline, once people have been— whistle—blower hotline, once people have been listened to... there is a quick— have been listened to... there is a quick rush — have been listened to... there is a quick rush to — have been listened to... there is a quick rush to move forward. i think before _ quick rush to move forward. i think before we — quick rush to move forward. i think before we move forward the game needs— before we move forward the game needs to _ before we move forward the game needs to listen to a lot of people who have — needs to listen to a lot of people who have suffered a lot of abuse up and down _ who have suffered a lot of abuse up and down the country. until it starts — and down the country. until it starts listening to that on hearing it as opposed to going, yeah, but... we cannot— it as opposed to going, yeah, but... we cannot move forward and that is the first— we cannot move forward and that is the first step towards it and what has been — the first step towards it and what has been put in at yorkshire now, i would _ has been put in at yorkshire now, i would encourage every county and the ecb to _ would encourage every county and the ecb to do— would encourage every county and the ecb to do the same. you would encourage every county and the ecb to do the same.— ecb to do the same. you are absolutely — ecb to do the same. you are absolutely right. _ ecb to do the same. you are absolutely right. can - ecb to do the same. you are absolutely right. can i- ecb to do the same. you are l absolutely right. can i contrast ecb to do the same. you are - absolutely right. can i contrast the way you _ absolutely right. can i contrast the way you have — absolutely right. can i contrast the way you have been _ absolutely right. can i contrast the way you have been treated - absolutely right. can i contrast the way you have been treated at - way you have been treated at yorkshire _ way you have been treated at yorkshire cricket, _ way you have been treated at yorkshire cricket, comparedi way you have been treated at. yorkshire cricket, compared to way you have been treated at - yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday _ yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? — yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? we _ yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? we know— yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? we know there - yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? we know there is- yorkshire cricket, compared to your everyday life? we know there is a l everyday life? we know there is a problem — everyday life? we know there is a problem with _ everyday life? we know there is a problem with racism _ everyday life? we know there is a problem with racism in— everyday life? we know there is a problem with racism in our- everyday life? we know there is a i problem with racism in our society, thank— problem with racism in our society, thank goodness _ problem with racism in our society, thank goodness i _ problem with racism in our society, thank goodness i don't _ problem with racism in our society, thank goodness i don't think- problem with racism in our society, thank goodness i don't think it - problem with racism in our society, thank goodness i don't think it is i thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere — thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere near— thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere near what _ thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere near what is _ thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere near what is going - thank goodness i don't think it is anywhere near what is going on. thank goodness i don't think it isi anywhere near what is going on in cricket, _ anywhere near what is going on in cricket, but — anywhere near what is going on in cricket, but there _ anywhere near what is going on in cricket, but there is _ anywhere near what is going on in cricket, but there is a _ anywhere near what is going on in cricket, but there is a problem. i anywhere near what is going on in. cricket, but there is a problem. can you contrast — cricket, but there is a problem. can you contrast your— cricket, but there is a problem. can you contrast your everyday- cricket, but there is a problem. can you contrast your everyday life - you contrast your everyday life compared _ you contrast your everyday life compared to _ you contrast your everyday life compared to what _ you contrast your everyday life compared to what you - you contrast your everyday life compared to what you have . compared to what you have experienced _ compared to what you have experienced there, - compared to what you have experienced there, what i compared to what you have i experienced there, what you compared to what you have - experienced there, what you have experienced — experienced there, what you have experienced in _ experienced there, what you have experienced in everyday - experienced there, what you have experienced in everyday life? - experienced there, what you have experienced in everyday life? it. experienced in everyday life? it sounds — experienced in everyday life? it sounds like _ experienced in everyday life? it sounds like this _ experienced in everyday life? it sounds like this is— experienced in everyday life? it sounds like this is in— experienced in everyday life? it sounds like this is in a - experienced in everyday life? it. sounds like this is in a completely different— sounds like this is in a completely different league. _ sounds like this is in a completely different league. none _ sounds like this is in a completely different league. none of- sounds like this is in a completely different league. none of it- sounds like this is in a completely different league. none of it is- different league. none of it is acceptable _ different league. none of it is acceptable but _ different league. none of it is acceptable but is _ different league. none of it is acceptable but is that - different league. none of it is acceptable but is that a - different league. none of it is acceptable but is that a fair. acceptable but is that a fair assessment— acceptable but is that a fair assessment of— acceptable but is that a fair assessment of where - acceptable but is that a fair assessment of where we i acceptable but is that a fair. assessment of where we are? acceptable but is that a fair- assessment of where we are? my assessment of where we are? everyday life, as long as i have known — everyday life, as long as i have known has _ everyday life, as long as i have known has just everyday life, as long as i have known hasjust been cricket. it would — known hasjust been cricket. it would be — known hasjust been cricket. it would be difficult for me to compare. but cricket and professional sport in general, it is a lot— professional sport in general, it is a lot worse — professional sport in general, it is a lot worse than society. again, the thing _ a lot worse than society. again, the thing i_ a lot worse than society. again, the thing i hear— a lot worse than society. again, the thing i hear a a lot worse than society. again, the thing i heara lot a lot worse than society. again, the thing i hear a lot is yeah, but it isa— thing i hear a lot is yeah, but it is a societal— thing i hear a lot is yeah, but it is a societal problem. cricket is part— is a societal problem. cricket is part of— is a societal problem. cricket is part of society, if we make changes within— part of society, if we make changes within cricket, we are making changes— within cricket, we are making changes within society. it is such a copout _ changes within society. it is such a copout to — changes within society. it is such a copout to say it is a societal problem~ _ copout to say it is a societal problem. everyone of us is responsible for the society we live in. responsible for the society we live in instead — responsible for the society we live in. instead of palming it off to other— in. instead of palming it off to other people, if we look, cricket is where _ other people, if we look, cricket is where i_ other people, if we look, cricket is where i was, — other people, if we look, cricket is where i was, cricket is where the ecb is _ where i was, cricket is where the ecb is and — where i was, cricket is where the ecb is and instead of saying it is a societal— ecb is and instead of saying it is a societal problem, we need to sort that out— societal problem, we need to sort that out first. no, let's sort out where — that out first. no, let's sort out where we — that out first. no, let's sort out where we are and it will happen in society— where we are and it will happen in society in— where we are and it will happen in society in the long run anyway. you have mentioned that the trade union were not supporting — mentioned that the trade union were not supporting you. _ mentioned that the trade union were not supporting you, and _ mentioned that the trade union were not supporting you, and for- mentioned that the trade union were not supporting you, and for them - mentioned that the trade union were not supporting you, and for them to| not supporting you, and for them to say they— not supporting you, and for them to say they have — not supporting you, and for them to say they have people _ not supporting you, and for them to say they have people on _ not supporting you, and for them to say they have people on both - not supporting you, and for them to say they have people on both sides, that doesn't — say they have people on both sides, that doesn't stop _ say they have people on both sides, that doesn't stop you _ say they have people on both sides, that doesn't stop you supporting - that doesn't stop you supporting people — that doesn't stop you supporting people it — that doesn't stop you supporting people. it sounds _ that doesn't stop you supporting people. it sounds to _ that doesn't stop you supporting people. it sounds to me - that doesn't stop you supporting people. it sounds to me they- that doesn't stop you supporting - people. it sounds to me they walked away from _ people. it sounds to me they walked away from the — people. it sounds to me they walked away from the problem. _ people. it sounds to me they walked away from the problem. could - people. it sounds to me they walked away from the problem. could you . away from the problem. could you describe _ away from the problem. could you describe the — away from the problem. could you describe the way _ away from the problem. could you describe the way the _ away from the problem. could you describe the way the tca - away from the problem. could you describe the way the tca has - describe the way the tca has behaved? _ describe the way the tca has behaved?— describe the way the tca has behaved? , ., , , . , behaved? the problem they have, my pdm at the time. — behaved? the problem they have, my pdm at the time, mattie _ behaved? the problem they have, my pdm at the time, mattie rudd, - behaved? the problem they have, my pdm at the time, mattie rudd, who i behaved? the problem they have, my pdm at the time, mattie rudd, who || pdm at the time, mattie rudd, who i felt was _ pdm at the time, mattie rudd, who i felt was in _ pdm at the time, mattie rudd, who i felt was in my corner, was actually working _ felt was in my corner, was actually working for— felt was in my corner, was actually working for yorkshire, and in communication with bob mackie had been a _ communication with bob mackie had been a yorkshire player in the past. it been a yorkshire player in the past. it was _ been a yorkshire player in the past. it was all— been a yorkshire player in the past. it was all cosy there. that only became — it was all cosy there. that only became evident from the subject data access— became evident from the subject data access request. they had an issue there _ access request. they had an issue there i_ access request. they had an issue there i had — access request. they had an issue there. i had a phone call with one of their— there. i had a phone call with one of their lawyers for three minutes and he _ of their lawyers for three minutes and he said, you don't have a case. it and he said, you don't have a case. it was _ and he said, you don't have a case. it was incredibly hurtful and to find out — it was incredibly hurtful and to find out later the reason they said that is— find out later the reason they said that is because if they had backed me, that is because if they had backed me. it _ that is because if they had backed me, it would have taken their whole budget~ _ me, it would have taken their whole budget~ my— me, it would have taken their whole budget. my would rather them have said, budget. my would rather them have said. we _ budget. my would rather them have said, we cannot afford it as opposed to them _ said, we cannot afford it as opposed to them saying you have got no case. it to them saying you have got no case. it made _ to them saying you have got no case. it made me _ to them saying you have got no case. it made me feel like no one believes you. it made me feel like no one believes you we _ it made me feel like no one believes you. we don't believe you, we believe — you. we don't believe you, we believe the pdm, who i thought was a top man~ _ believe the pdm, who i thought was a top man. obviously, like i said, what _ top man. obviously, like i said, what you — top man. obviously, like i said, what you see at the front on what is happening _ what you see at the front on what is happening behind—the—scenes and the subject— happening behind—the—scenes and the subject access data request was an eye—opener for me. subject access data request was an eye—openerfor me. even subject access data request was an eye—opener for me. even i didn't realise _ eye—opener for me. even i didn't realise how— eye—opener for me. even i didn't realise how bad it was happening behind—the—scenes. when i spoke to them _ behind—the—scenes. when i spoke to them i_ behind—the—scenes. when i spoke to them i try— behind—the—scenes. when i spoke to them i try to — behind—the—scenes. when i spoke to them i try to tell them what i was feeling _ them i try to tell them what i was feeling i— them i try to tell them what i was feeling. i have the proof, when i started — feeling. i have the proof, when i started getting the proof, the inclusive _ started getting the proof, the inclusive diversity board members was talking about how to brush it, deal with— was talking about how to brush it, deal with it. there was literally no interest _ deal with it. there was literally no interest in— deal with it. there was literally no interest in actually dealing with my allegations. that is very clear, as bad as— allegations. that is very clear, as bad as that — allegations. that is very clear, as bad as that report is, i think the one thing — bad as that report is, i think the one thing that is very clear in that report— one thing that is very clear in that report is— one thing that is very clear in that report is how i think they were dismissive _ report is how i think they were dismissive of my allegations and they wanted to wash their hands of me. ., ~' they wanted to wash their hands of me. ., ~ , ., they wanted to wash their hands of me-_ hello. _ they wanted to wash their hands of me._ hello, azeem, - they wanted to wash their hands of me._ hello, azeem, it l they wanted to wash their hands of| me._ hello, azeem, it is they wanted to wash their hands of l me._ hello, azeem, it is a me. thank you. hello, azeem, it is a horror show. — me. thank you. hello, azeem, it is a horror show, what _ me. thank you. hello, azeem, it is a horror show, what you _ me. thank you. hello, azeem, it is a horror show, what you are _ horror show, what you are describing. you talked about yorkshire and other clubs has come up yorkshire and other clubs has come up in other questions, is it an issue at other clubs and you said, without question. i don't suppose any of the other counties will be looking forward to this exchange. i am not asking you to name names, but can you name counties? you have put yourself out there. by doing so, you attract attention, wanted and unwanted. you become a place around which people feel they can talk. have other players from other counties been in touch with you to say, yes, this is exactly what i am experiencing. i thought it was just. i thought i was blowing it out of proportion. like some of the stuff you have said to us this morning. you have said it is, without question, anywhere else so can you tell the committee where? i question, anywhere else so can you tell the committee where?- question, anywhere else so can you tell the committee where? i have had messates tell the committee where? i have had messages from _ tell the committee where? i have had messages from people _ tell the committee where? i have had messages from people who _ tell the committee where? i have had messages from people who have - tell the committee where? i have had l messages from people who have played at leicester, messages from how he played _ at leicester, messages from how he played at _ at leicester, messages from how he played at middlesex. i have had messages from people who have played at nottinghamshire. i have messages from guite _ at nottinghamshire. i have messages from quite a few. some people obviously— from quite a few. some people obviously are still pretty scared for them — obviously are still pretty scared for them to talk about it. some still say— for them to talk about it. some still say should have called it out? is it racism? i don't know. one of the re—occurrences, the word expletive is used a lot and the gentleman which spoke recently about 9/11 and _ gentleman which spoke recently about 9/11 and being called bomber. maurice — 9/11 and being called bomber. maurice chambers spoke out from essex _ maurice chambers spoke out from essex yesterday about miss fielding in a fielding drill and... sorry, saying — in a fielding drill and... sorry, saying this _ in a fielding drill and... sorry, saying this is a black thing. eat a banana _ saying this is a black thing. eat a banana you — saying this is a black thing. eat a banana you expletive monkey. it is pretty— banana you expletive monkey. it is pretty clear — banana you expletive monkey. it is pretty clear it is there. some people — pretty clear it is there. some people are still pretty scared and they are~~~ — they are... studio: apologies for the they — studio: apologies for the language you heard, we did warn there would be some offensive language, most likely in this live hearing. obviously, some tiring, rafiq recounting something he says was said. so apologies for that, if that caused offence you. i said. so apologies for that, if that caused offence you._ said. so apologies for that, if that caused offence you. i want to become the voice for — caused offence you. i want to become the voice for the _ caused offence you. i want to become the voice for the voices. _ caused offence you. i want to become the voice for the voices. i _ caused offence you. i want to become the voice for the voices. i want - caused offence you. i want to become the voice for the voices. i want to - the voice for the voices. i want to try and _ the voice for the voices. i want to try and help — the voice for the voices. i want to try and help people that are suffering this. without it getting to a point where it got for me. i want _ to a point where it got for me. i want to— to a point where it got for me. i want to help young players coming into the _ want to help young players coming into the game, getting them ready for the _ into the game, getting them ready for the challenges, but actually, the counties to change their environments and culture so these people _ environments and culture so these people can — environments and culture so these people can achieve their dreams. my dream, _ people can achieve their dreams. my dream, i_ people can achieve their dreams. my dream, i wasn't able to achieve it. i dream, i wasn't able to achieve it. i have _ dream, i wasn't able to achieve it. i have tried — dream, i wasn't able to achieve it. i have tried to stay away throughout the process— i have tried to stay away throughout the process and talking about my cricket~ _ the process and talking about my cricket~ i— the process and talking about my cricket. i think with the stats and stuff _ cricket. i think with the stats and stuff around 2017, it was clear i had the — stuff around 2017, it was clear i had the ability and with my captaincy skills, to go right to the top. captaincy skills, to go right to the top but— captaincy skills, to go right to the top. but these instances, these experiences really weighed down on me and _ experiences really weighed down on me and i_ experiences really weighed down on me and i think the last 15 months will show— me and i think the last 15 months will show that i can deal with a lot from _ will show that i can deal with a lot from the — will show that i can deal with a lot from the outside, but when it is the inside _ from the outside, but when it is the inside it— from the outside, but when it is the inside it eats me and it kills me. but some — inside it eats me and it kills me. but some of the things that have hurt me — but some of the things that have hurt me the most has been the tca, who i_ hurt me the most has been the tca, who i thought would be in my corner. certain— who i thought would be in my corner. certain members of the south asian community — certain members of the south asian community. —— the tca. it is important _ community. —— the tca. it is important that now i have been brave or stupid. _ important that now i have been brave or stupid, whatever you want to call it, or stupid, whatever you want to call it. to _ or stupid, whatever you want to call it. to stand — or stupid, whatever you want to call it, to stand up to an institution and hold — it, to stand up to an institution and hold them to account, i want to help the _ and hold them to account, i want to help the young lads to prepare and achieve _ help the young lads to prepare and achieve their dreams and hopefully -et achieve their dreams and hopefully get the _ achieve their dreams and hopefully get the institutions to change so they don't... get the institutions to change so they don't- - -_ get the institutions to change so the don't... , , ,, . they don't. .. they can be respected. on that thought _ they don't. .. they can be respected. on that thought you _ they don't. .. they can be respected. on that thought you gave _ they don't. .. they can be respected. on that thought you gave the - they don't. .. they can be respected. on that thought you gave the stats | on that thought you gave the stats earlier about the youth game into the professional game and they are striking, they don't lie. obviously, there is a tragedy for all those individuals who don't go from playing pretty good youth cricket, showing great promise in practising, to play the professional game and they have missed out on that. so have you, right? cricket is not my game, i don't know a lot about it, but i know you were a good cricketer. what has the england cricketer. what has the england cricket team, for instance, what have they missed out on not having your services and not having the services of those other young boys and girls who may be have been cut off and not gone through to play and achieve their potential, what have we missed out on? how many ashes might we have one? tbs, we missed out on? how many ashes might we have one?— might we have one? a hell of a lot of talent, better _ might we have one? a hell of a lot of talent, better representation i might we have one? a hell of a lot of talent, better representation of| of talent, better representation of the country. yeah, missed out on a lot, i_ the country. yeah, missed out on a lot, ithink — the country. yeah, missed out on a lot, ithink. there is a the country. yeah, missed out on a lot, i think. there is a lot of asian — lot, i think. there is a lot of asian cricketers that have been subject — asian cricketers that have been subject to — asian cricketers that have been subject to this, not just asian, black— subject to this, not just asian, black cricketers as well. the representation of black cricketers within _ representation of black cricketers within cricket right now is worrying. from where it was and i think— worrying. from where it was and i think the — worrying. from where it was and i think the game, the ecb really needs to look— think the game, the ecb really needs to look at— think the game, the ecb really needs to look at that and start doing something tangible to make them change _ something tangible to make them change as opposed to some pr initiatives. | change as opposed to some pr initiatives-— change as opposed to some pr initiatives. . ., . ,, ., initiatives. i will come back to the ersonal initiatives. i will come back to the personalfinding, _ initiatives. i will come back to the personal finding, but _ initiatives. i will come back to the personalfinding, but i _ initiatives. i will come back to the personal finding, but i was - initiatives. i will come back to the personal finding, but i was asking you about other county teams and you have become a rallying point for people to contact you and you know if you counties from which people have contacted you. have young people in other sports been in touch with you to say that they recognise what you have said? plat with you to say that they recognise what you have said?— what you have said? not young --eole. i what you have said? not young people- i have _ what you have said? not young people. i have had _ what you have said? not young people. i have had people - what you have said? not young i people. i have had people from what you have said? not young - people. i have had people from other industries _ people. i have had people from other industries in — people. i have had people from other industries in different lines of work — industries in different lines of work i— industries in different lines of work. i got an e—mail from someone who works _ work. i got an e—mail from someone who works for — work. i got an e—mail from someone who works for a big utility company and the _ who works for a big utility company and the similarities with the same. it and the similarities with the same. it was _ and the similarities with the same. it was all— and the similarities with the same. it was alljust the same. i have not had young — it was alljust the same. i have not had young people from other sports. what about other sports, men and women playing elite sports? it is women playing elite sports? it is not something _ women playing elite sports? it is not something i _ women playing elite sports? it is not something i have heard from other— not something i have heard from other sports. but like i said, i don't — other sports. but like i said, i don't know— other sports. but like i said, i don't know about the story has been and i_ don't know about the story has been and i don't _ don't know about the story has been and i don't know how aware people have been— and i don't know how aware people have been in other sports. when i was playing cricket, i didn't really know _ was playing cricket, i didn't really know about anything else going on in the world _ know about anything else going on in the world. ., , know about anything else going on in the world. . , , ., know about anything else going on in the world. ., , , ., ., the world. finally, you might not find this easy _ the world. finally, you might not find this easy to _ the world. finally, you might not find this easy to answer- the world. finally, you might not find this easy to answer but - the world. finally, you might not find this easy to answer but i - the world. finally, you might not find this easy to answer but i will ask you anyway, you are quite an emotional person, you have been through an emotional time and i don't blame you, it has been emotional listening to your evidence. he spoke about it being your dream and your family's evidence. he spoke about it being your dream and yourfamily�*s dream. so growing up in barnsley, what would you say 11—year—old boys in barnsley, and girls, in barnsley today who are reading this, hearing this who might have that same dream, his family might have that same dream for them, what would you say to them? . . , dream for them, what would you say to them? , , , . to them? this is why where we have not to is to them? this is why where we have got to is quite _ to them? this is why where we have got to is quite difficult. _ to them? this is why where we have got to is quite difficult. i _ to them? this is why where we have got to is quite difficult. i can't - got to is quite difficult. i can't imagine — got to is quite difficult. i can't imagine as a parent, hearing me speak— imagine as a parent, hearing me speak now— imagine as a parent, hearing me speak now why i would want my kids to go— speak now why i would want my kids to go anywhere near the game. i don't _ to go anywhere near the game. i don't want — to go anywhere near the game. i don't want my son to go anywhere near— don't want my son to go anywhere near cricket~ — don't want my son to go anywhere near cricket. but this is why the ecb and — near cricket. but this is why the ecb and the counties need to show they can _ ecb and the counties need to show they can use this as an opportunity for the _ they can use this as an opportunity for the change and get the parents to understand and show them that we have messed up, but we are going to do this, _ have messed up, but we are going to do this, this — have messed up, but we are going to do this, this and this and make sure it doesn't— do this, this and this and make sure it doesn't happen to your kid. if i was a _ it doesn't happen to your kid. if i was a parent i would say, keep an eye on— was a parent i would say, keep an eye on your— was a parent i would say, keep an eye on your kids. keep an eye on them, _ eye on your kids. keep an eye on them, because this is reality. as a parent— them, because this is reality. as a parent i_ them, because this is reality. as a parent i would not let my kids go there _ parent i would not let my kids go there and — parent i would not let my kids go there and leave them at the hands of these _ there and leave them at the hands of these people. it is clear in professional sports and other issues as well, _ professional sports and other issues as well, people go from playing to coaching _ as well, people go from playing to coaching and they are handed responsibility for kids and they don't _ responsibility for kids and they don't know how to behave in front of kids _ don't know how to behave in front of kids. ., .,, ., , , don't know how to behave in front of kids. ., ., , , . . don't know how to behave in front of kids. ., ., _ . . ., . kids. you obviously had a love hate relationship — kids. you obviously had a love hate relationship with _ kids. you obviously had a love hate relationship with the _ kids. you obviously had a love hate relationship with the game, - kids. you obviously had a love hate relationship with the game, but. kids. you obviously had a love hate| relationship with the game, but you say yorkshire is still your club. by how many will leave in the ashes? 5-0. i think hell would freeze over before even _ 5-0. i think hell would freeze over before even 5-0. _ 5-0. i think hell would freeze over before even 5-0. thank _ 5-0. i think hell would freeze over before even 5-0. thank you - 5-0. i think hell would freeze over before even 5-0. thank you for. 5-0. i think hell would freeze over. before even 5-0. thank you for your evidence today. _ before even 5-0. thank you for your evidence today. you _ before even 5-0. thank you for your evidence today. you mentioned - before even 5-0. thank you for your evidence today. you mentioned we | evidence today. you mentioned we need _ evidence today. you mentioned we need to— evidence today. you mentioned we need to use — evidence today. you mentioned we need to use this _ evidence today. you mentioned we need to use this as _ evidence today. you mentioned we need to use this as an _ evidence today. you mentioned we need to use this as an opportunityi need to use this as an opportunity for real— need to use this as an opportunity for real change. _ need to use this as an opportunity for real change, people _ need to use this as an opportunity for real change, people have - need to use this as an opportunity. for real change, people have spoken it before _ for real change, people have spoken it before but — for real change, people have spoken it before but nothing _ for real change, people have spoken it before but nothing has _ for real change, people have spoken it before but nothing has changed. l it before but nothing has changed. we had _ it before but nothing has changed. we had an— it before but nothing has changed. we had an urgent— it before but nothing has changed. we had an urgent question - it before but nothing has changed. we had an urgent question in - it before but nothing has changed. we had an urgent question in the i we had an urgent question in the house _ we had an urgent question in the house of— we had an urgent question in the house of commons _ we had an urgent question in the house of commons last - we had an urgent question in the house of commons last week - we had an urgent question in the | house of commons last week and we had an urgent question in the - house of commons last week and the government's— house of commons last week and the government's response _ house of commons last week and the government's response was - house of commons last week and the government's response was that - house of commons last week and the government's response was that an . government's response was that an independent _ government's response was that an independent commission _ government's response was that an independent commission has- government's response was that an independent commission has beenl independent commission has been appointed, — independent commission has been appointed, do— independent commission has been appointed. do you _ independent commission has been appointed, do you have _ independent commission has been appointed, do you have faith - independent commission has been appointed, do you have faith in - independent commission has beeni appointed, do you have faith in this or do— appointed, do you have faith in this or do you _ appointed, do you have faith in this or do you see — appointed, do you have faith in this or do you see it _ appointed, do you have faith in this or do you see it as _ appointed, do you have faith in this or do you see it as more _ appointed, do you have faith in this| or do you see it as more tokenism? appointed, do you have faith in this. or do you see it as more tokenism? l or do you see it as more tokenism? spoke to cindy a few months ago. studio: — spoke to cindy a few months ago. studio: on the bbc news channel we will continue our coverage of cricketer, azeem rafiq's testimony to the committee. but we say goodbye to the committee. but we say goodbye to our viewers on bbc world. icindi;r to our viewers on bbc world. cindy has been part _ to our viewers on bbc world. cindy has been part of— to our viewers on bbc world. cindy has been part of other _ to our viewers on bbc world. cindy has been part of other things, very reputable~ — has been part of other things, very reputable. but we have seen it all before _ reputable. but we have seen it all before. this investigation was apparently an international law firm _ apparently an international law firm the — apparently an international law firm. the panel had employment specialist. — firm. the panel had employment specialist, people of colour and it was meant — specialist, people of colour and it was meant to be independent, but it 'ust was meant to be independent, but it just showed these things are a delay tactic. _ just showed these things are a delay tactic. to _ just showed these things are a delay tactic, to actually deal with the issue — tactic, to actually deal with the issue i— tactic, to actually deal with the issue. i would encourage the ecb and i issue. i would encourage the ecb and i hope _ issue. i would encourage the ecb and i hope you _ issue. i would encourage the ecb and i hope you guys are going to as well, _ i hope you guys are going to as well, action is needed and it is needed — well, action is needed and it is needed now. to be honest, iam well, action is needed and it is needed now. to be honest, i am sick and tired _ needed now. to be honest, i am sick and tired of— needed now. to be honest, i am sick and tired of these equity commissions and these enquiries, sick and _ commissions and these enquiries, sick and tired of it. all we are asking — sick and tired of it. all we are asking for— sick and tired of it. all we are asking for is a quality, to be treated _ asking for is a quality, to be treated fairly, regardless of the colour— treated fairly, regardless of the colour of— treated fairly, regardless of the colour of our skin or religion we follow — colour of our skin or religion we follow. just _ colour of our skin or religion we follow. just respect from the human race _ follow. just respect from the human race. . , ,., y follow. just respect from the human race. . , , ., . follow. just respect from the human race. n, , ., . ., race. absolutely. you want action from the ecb. — race. absolutely. you want action from the ecb, what _ race. absolutely. you want action from the ecb, what do _ race. absolutely. you want action from the ecb, what do you - race. absolutely. you want action - from the ecb, what do you recommend happening _ from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so _ from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we — from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we turn _ from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we turn a _ from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we turn a corner- from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we turn a corner and - from the ecb, what do you recommend happening so we turn a corner and we i happening so we turn a corner and we can get— happening so we turn a corner and we can get more — happening so we turn a corner and we can get more south— happening so we turn a corner and we can get more south asian _ happening so we turn a corner and we can get more south asian young - can get more south asian young people _ can get more south asian young people into _ can get more south asian young people into the _ can get more south asian young people into the game, - can get more south asian young people into the game, men - can get more south asian young people into the game, men and| can get more south asian young - people into the game, men and women and they— people into the game, men and women and they feel _ people into the game, men and women and they feel included _ people into the game, men and women and they feel included and _ people into the game, men and women and they feel included and part - people into the game, men and women and they feel included and part of- and they feel included and part of the team, — and they feel included and part of the team, which— and they feel included and part of the team, which is— and they feel included and part of the team, which is what - and they feel included and part of the team, which is what you - the team, which is what you desperately— the team, which is what you desperately wanted? - the team, which is what you desperately wanted? at. - the team, which is what you desperately wanted? a hotline, a whistle-blower _ desperately wanted? a hotline, a whistle-blower hotline _ desperately wanted? a hotline, a whistle-blower hotline where - desperately wanted? a hotline, a . whistle-blower hotline where people whistle—blower hotline where people can speak _ whistle—blower hotline where people can speak and listen to them. actually— can speak and listen to them. actually listen to them. and i think real accountability. actually listen to them. and i think realaccountability. it actually listen to them. and i think real accountability. it is important that is— real accountability. it is important that is much as it is about the institution, it is important because of the _ institution, it is important because of the way— institution, it is important because of the way yorkshire handled this, that there — of the way yorkshire handled this, that there is accountability to the leaders — that there is accountability to the leaders. some of them have faced it, but there _ leaders. some of them have faced it, but there are still some there. people — but there are still some there. people need to know that if you do this, there — people need to know that if you do this, there will be repercussions and i_ this, there will be repercussions and i would hold that at the top of the list _ and i would hold that at the top of the list. we need change, talking is what i _ the list. we need change, talking is what i want — the list. we need change, talking is what i want to avoid and if it is the angle _ what i want to avoid and if it is the angle i_ what i want to avoid and if it is the angle i see the ecb going down, i will the angle i see the ecb going down, i will call— the angle i see the ecb going down, i will call it — the angle i see the ecb going down, i will call it out, because they have — i will call it out, because they have done _ i will call it out, because they have done it in the past. a person of colour, — have done it in the past. a person of colour, between eight people non—colour and say how great we are, that is— non—colour and say how great we are, that is not— non—colour and say how great we are, that is not what we want. the problems— that is not what we want. the problems are in the dressing rooms, so deal— problems are in the dressing rooms, so deal with— problems are in the dressing rooms, so deal with that. don't go to pr initiatives — so deal with that. don't go to pr initiatives of getting more kids playing. — initiatives of getting more kids playing, we haven't got a problem there _ playing, we haven't got a problem there. there needs to be something to keep _ there. there needs to be something to keep an— there. there needs to be something to keep an eye on that throughout the country. he to keep an eye on that throughout the country-— to keep an eye on that throughout the count . ., ., the country. he mentioned we need to chance the country. he mentioned we need to chan . e the the country. he mentioned we need to change the dressing _ the country. he mentioned we need to change the dressing rooms _ the country. he mentioned we need to change the dressing rooms and - the country. he mentioned we need to change the dressing rooms and the - change the dressing rooms and the culture _ change the dressing rooms and the culture of— change the dressing rooms and the culture of it — change the dressing rooms and the culture of it being _ change the dressing rooms and the culture of it being acceptable. - change the dressing rooms and the culture of it being acceptable. we i culture of it being acceptable. we have heard — culture of it being acceptable. we have heard from _ culture of it being acceptable. we have heard from some _ culture of it being acceptable. we have heard from some female - have heard from some female cricketers _ have heard from some female cricketers about _ have heard from some female cricketers about some - have heard from some female cricketers about some of - have heard from some female cricketers about some of the i have heard from some female - cricketers about some of the abuse and harassment— cricketers about some of the abuse and harassment they _ cricketers about some of the abuse and harassment they have - cricketers about some of the abuse and harassment they have faced i cricketers about some of the abuse i and harassment they have faced and the misogyny— and harassment they have faced and the misogyny that _ and harassment they have faced and the misogyny that takes _ and harassment they have faced and the misogyny that takes place - and harassment they have faced and the misogyny that takes place in - the misogyny that takes place in female _ the misogyny that takes place in female cricket. _ the misogyny that takes place in female cricket. have _ the misogyny that takes place in female cricket. have you - the misogyny that takes place in i female cricket. have you witnessed any behaviour— female cricket. have you witnessed any behaviour and _ female cricket. have you witnessed any behaviour and language - female cricket. have you witnessed any behaviour and language in - female cricket. have you witnessed any behaviour and language in the i any behaviour and language in the changing — any behaviour and language in the changing room _ any behaviour and language in the changing room around _ any behaviour and language in the changing room around misogyny. any behaviour and language in the . changing room around misogyny and homophobia — changing room around misogyny and homophobia and _ changing room around misogyny and homophobia and say _ changing room around misogyny and homophobia and say cricket - changing room around misogyny and homophobia and say cricket also - changing room around misogyny and homophobia and say cricket also has a problem _ homophobia and say cricket also has a problem in — homophobia and say cricket also has a problem in those _ homophobia and say cricket also has a problem in those areas? _ homophobia and say cricket also has a problem in those areas? [- homophobia and say cricket also has a problem in those areas?— a problem in those areas? i don't recall it like _ a problem in those areas? i don't recall it like i _ a problem in those areas? i don't recall it like i do _ a problem in those areas? i don't recall it like i do the _ a problem in those areas? i don't recall it like i do the experiences| recall it like i do the experiences i recall it like i do the experiences i had _ recall it like i do the experiences i had but— recall it like i do the experiences i had. but it would be wrong of me to sit— i had. but it would be wrong of me to sit here — i had. but it would be wrong of me to sit here and say it doesn't, of course _ to sit here and say it doesn't, of course it— to sit here and say it doesn't, of course it does. as i said, the ecb need _ course it does. as i said, the ecb need to— course it does. as i said, the ecb need to seriously look at things themselves. there is no reason to have _ themselves. there is no reason to have separate bodies and palming off their responsibility and asking them to clean— their responsibility and asking them to clean the doors that pop up the mess _ to clean the doors that pop up the mess the — to clean the doors that pop up the mess. the ecb of the regulators, it is their— mess. the ecb of the regulators, it is theirfunding. mess. the ecb of the regulators, it is their funding. cricket is different to football. counties and clubs _ different to football. counties and clubs cannot function without the ecb _ clubs cannot function without the ecb it— clubs cannot function without the ecb it is— clubs cannot function without the ecb. it is important the ecb take the lead — ecb. it is important the ecb take the lead on this. i think the action time _ the lead on this. i think the action time is _ the lead on this. i think the action time is now — the lead on this. i think the action time is now. we are in 2021, we shouldn't— time is now. we are in 2021, we shouldn't even be having this conversation. i shouldn't even be having this conversation.— shouldn't even be having this conversation. . . ,, , ., conversation. i agree, thank you, chair. thank you for coming today. you did say that _ thank you for coming today. you did say that she — thank you for coming today. you did say that she called _ thank you for coming today. you did say that she called for _ thank you for coming today. you did say that she called for disciplinary i say that she called for disciplinary action— say that she called for disciplinary action and — say that she called for disciplinary action and yet _ say that she called for disciplinary action and yet only _ say that she called for disciplinary action and yet only last _ say that she called for disciplinary action and yet only last month - action and yet only last month yorkshire _ action and yet only last month yorkshire said _ action and yet only last month yorkshire said no _ action and yet only last month yorkshire said no one - action and yet only last month yorkshire said no one at- action and yet only last month yorkshire said no one at the l action and yet only last month . yorkshire said no one at the club would _ yorkshire said no one at the club would face — yorkshire said no one at the club would face disciplinary _ yorkshire said no one at the club would face disciplinary action. i yorkshire said no one at the club. would face disciplinary action. what is your— would face disciplinary action. what is your reaction _ would face disciplinary action. what is your reaction to _ would face disciplinary action. what is your reaction to that? _ would face disciplinary action. what is your reaction to that?— would face disciplinary action. what is your reaction to that? when i saw that ost, is your reaction to that? when i saw that post. i — is your reaction to that? when i saw that post. i was _ is your reaction to that? when i saw that post, i was staggered. - is your reaction to that? when i saw that post, i was staggered. at - is your reaction to that? when i saw that post, i was staggered. at what| that post, i was staggered. at what point _ that post, i was staggered. at what point are _ that post, i was staggered. at what point are these people going to read the room? _ point are these people going to read the room? at what point are these people _ the room? at what point are these people going to realise what they are doing? when i read it i was angry — are doing? when i read it i was angry it — are doing? when i read it i was angry. it actually made me feel like them _ angry. it actually made me feel like them saying we have all this pressure _ them saying we have all this pressure so we are apologising but we don't _ pressure so we are apologising but we don't give a damn what you say. the middle — we don't give a damn what you say. the middle of last year again while the investigation was live and they were aware of the allegations against — were aware of the allegations against gary, gary was made captain again— against gary, gary was made captain again and _ against gary, gary was made captain again and he was given a three—year contract _ again and he was given a three—year contract by— again and he was given a three—year contract by those leaders while they knew all— contract by those leaders while they knew all this and i understand roger had gone _ knew all this and i understand roger had gone to members forums and said two people _ had gone to members forums and said two people didn't involve any one at the club _ two people didn't involve any one at the club so— two people didn't involve any one at the club. so i think even his close as two— the club. so i think even his close as two weeks ago they generally felt they could hide this. and i think that is— they could hide this. and i think that is what they tried to do throughout. what might have you seen a shift _ throughout. what might have you seen a shift in _ throughout. what might have you seen a shift in position? i don't think martin— a shift in position? i don't think martin feels he is wrong in any way or martin _ martin feels he is wrong in any way or martin or— martin feels he is wrong in any way or martin or andrew or anyone else in that— or martin or andrew or anyone else in that place. we talked about michael— in that place. we talked about michael earlier, he seems to have taken _ michael earlier, he seems to have taken the — michael earlier, he seems to have taken the same stance as the club, deny. _ taken the same stance as the club, deny. deny. — taken the same stance as the club, deny, deny, deny. ithink they taken the same stance as the club, deny, deny, deny. i think they have been _ deny, deny, deny. i think they have been left _ deny, deny, deny. i think they have been left with no choice and i want to thank— been left with no choice and i want to thank the politicians for getting involved _ to thank the politicians for getting involved and the media, sports and the cricket — involved and the media, sports and the cricket media. there are some top people — the cricket media. there are some top people and they have not let the cost down _ top people and they have not let the cost down. . , ., _ , cost down. earlier, you did say my club, so cost down. earlier, you did say my club. so clear— cost down. earlier, you did say my club, so clear you _ cost down. earlier, you did say my club, so clear you have _ cost down. earlier, you did say my club, so clear you have some - club, so clear you have some affection _ club, so clear you have some affection for— club, so clear you have some affection for the _ club, so clear you have some affection for the club - club, so clear you have some affection for the club and - club, so clear you have some - affection for the club and despite all you _ affection for the club and despite all you have _ affection for the club and despite all you have been _ affection for the club and despite all you have been through. - affection for the club and despite all you have been through. what| all you have been through. what action— all you have been through. what action would _ all you have been through. what action would you _ all you have been through. what action would you like _ all you have been through. what action would you like to - all you have been through. what action would you like to see - all you have been through. what action would you like to see the i all you have been through. what - action would you like to see the new chairman— action would you like to see the new chairman take? _ action would you like to see the new chairman take? [it _ action would you like to see the new chairman take? [it is _ action would you like to see the new chairman take?— chairman take? it is my club, i am a ca- ed chairman take? it is my club, i am a capped player— chairman take? it is my club, i am a capped player at _ chairman take? it is my club, i am a capped player at the _ chairman take? it is my club, i am a capped player at the club. _ chairman take? it is my club, i am a capped player at the club. should i capped player at the club. should never— capped player at the club. should never have had to get here. people i have been— never have had to get here. people i have been close to will back this up, have been close to will back this up. i— have been close to will back this up. i have — have been close to will back this up, i have tried endless times to the detriment of myself to not end ”p the detriment of myself to not end up in _ the detriment of myself to not end up in what — the detriment of myself to not end up in what i see as a car crash. we had a _ up in what i see as a car crash. we had a good — up in what i see as a car crash. we had a good five or six hours and i challenged — had a good five or six hours and i challenged him on a lot of things and about— challenged him on a lot of things and about things he said but i did not like _ and about things he said but i did not like but i respected his honesty and i_ not like but i respected his honesty and i feel— not like but i respected his honesty and i feel he is going to do the right— and i feel he is going to do the right thing but i made it very clear to them _ right thing but i made it very clear to them i— right thing but i made it very clear to them i don't see this as the end, iactually— to them i don't see this as the end, i actually feel this is the start because _ i actually feel this is the start because i_ i actually feel this is the start because i will be watching and if it needs— because i will be watching and if it needs calling out tomorrow or in five weeks' — needs calling out tomorrow or in five weeks' time i will call it out, i five weeks' time i will call it out, i don't _ five weeks' time i will call it out, i don't want _ five weeks' time i will call it out, i don't want my kids to live in a idon't want my kids to live in a society— i don't want my kids to live in a society that lets this happen for any member. if society that lets this happen for any member-— society that lets this happen for any member. if the club were to reach out _ any member. if the club were to reach out to _ any member. if the club were to reach out to you _ any member. if the club were to reach out to you and _ any member. if the club were to reach out to you and say - any member. if the club were to reach out to you and say can - any member. if the club were to| reach out to you and say can you help _ reach out to you and say can you help us — reach out to you and say can you help us get — reach out to you and say can you help us get our— reach out to you and say can you help us get our sponsorship - reach out to you and say can you | help us get our sponsorship back reach out to you and say can you - help us get our sponsorship back and can you _ help us get our sponsorship back and can you help— help us get our sponsorship back and can you help us— help us get our sponsorship back and can you help us improve _ help us get our sponsorship back and can you help us improve would - help us get our sponsorship back and can you help us improve would you . help us get our sponsorship back and i can you help us improve would you be prepared _ can you help us improve would you be prepared to _ can you help us improve would you be prepared to do — can you help us improve would you be prepared to do that? _ can you help us improve would you be prepared to do that? [f— can you help us improve would you be prepared to do that?— prepared to do that? if they got in touch and said _ prepared to do that? if they got in touch and said can _ prepared to do that? if they got in touch and said can you _ prepared to do that? if they got in touch and said can you help - prepared to do that? if they got in touch and said can you help us - prepared to do that? if they got in i touch and said can you help us get our sponsorship back, i would be very hesitant because of that is the mindset. _ very hesitant because of that is the mindset. it — very hesitant because of that is the mindset, it is not genuine. . i feel as steve _ mindset, it is not genuine. . i feel as steve said _ mindset, it is not genuine. . i feel as steve said earlier there are a lot of— as steve said earlier there are a lot of people prepared to work on the inside — lot of people prepared to work on the inside and i feel i have been brave _ the inside and i feel i have been brave enough to call the institution out and _ brave enough to call the institution out and i_ brave enough to call the institution out and i would prefer to actually sit on _ out and i would prefer to actually sit on the — out and i would prefer to actually sit on the outside and hold into account— sit on the outside and hold into account and keep making sure they know _ account and keep making sure they know somebody is watching. a lot of people _ know somebody is watching. a lot of people do— know somebody is watching. a lot of people do not, i don't want to be the sort — people do not, idon't want to be the sort of— people do not, i don't want to be the sort of person that talks about the sort of person that talks about the issue — the sort of person that talks about the issue and then hasjobs and opportunities offered left and right and centre and go on the other side and centre and go on the other side and tell— and centre and go on the other side and tell people how great it is, i want _ and tell people how great it is, i want to— and tell people how great it is, i want to speak about the facts. you feel our want to speak about the facts. you feel your position is of the critic observing? _ feel your position is of the critic observing?— feel your position is of the critic observing? feel your position is of the critic observin: ? . , , , observing? and help them push the ritht wa . observing? and help them push the right way- but _ observing? and help them push the right way- but i _ observing? and help them push the right way. but i don't _ observing? and help them push the right way. but i don't want - observing? and help them push the right way. but i don't want the - right way. but i don't want the system — right way. but i don't want the system to— right way. but i don't want the system to think they can induce me with any— system to think they can induce me with anonb — system to think they can induce me with anyjob offers and i don't care about— with anyjob offers and i don't care about my— with anyjob offers and i don't care about my personal, i think that is pretty— about my personal, i think that is pretty evident from the past 15 months — pretty evident from the past 15 months that i couldn't give to jots about— months that i couldn't give to jots about what i do in my life. i have been _ about what i do in my life. i have been brought up with values that are a lot stronger to me and in five years' — a lot stronger to me and in five years' time _ a lot stronger to me and in five years' time if no one wants to give me a _ years' time if no one wants to give me a job. — years' time if no one wants to give me a job, that's fine, i don't care but if— me a job, that's fine, i don't care but if in _ me a job, that's fine, i don't care but if in five _ me a job, that's fine, i don't care but if in five years' time there are to explain— but if in five years' time there are to explain the game and we have a game _ to explain the game and we have a game that— to explain the game and we have a game that is a lot nicer, then i will be — game that is a lot nicer, then i will be very— game that is a lot nicer, then i will be very proud of what i've done — will be very proud of what i've done. . , ., i. will be very proud of what i've done. . , ., ,, ~' will be very proud of what i've done. . , ., ,, , done. finally, do you think it is time the government _ done. finally, do you think it is. time the government intervened done. finally, do you think it is - time the government intervened in cricket _ time the government intervened in cricket and — time the government intervened in cricket and if — time the government intervened in cricket and if so _ time the government intervened in cricket and if so what _ time the government intervened in cricket and if so what you - time the government intervened in cricket and if so what you think - time the government intervened in cricket and if so what you think the government— cricket and if so what you think the government should _ cricket and if so what you think the government should do? _ cricket and if so what you think the government should do? [- cricket and if so what you think the government should do?— government should do? i think the ower with government should do? i think the power with the _ government should do? i think the power with the last _ government should do? i think the power with the last couple - government should do? i think the power with the last couple of - government should do? i think the | power with the last couple of weeks with politicians intervening, i think— with politicians intervening, i think it — with politicians intervening, i think it is _ with politicians intervening, i think it is important that the government watch over this. as close to it as— government watch over this. as close to it as i_ government watch over this. as close to it as i am. — government watch over this. as close to it as i am, because i think there's— to it as i am, because i think there's a _ to it as i am, because i think there's a bigger picture and society. _ there's a bigger picture and society. '— there's a bigger picture and society, i really do, and we all love _ society, i really do, and we all love cricket. | society, i really do, and we all love cricket.— love cricket. i love it, i 'ust don't understand �* love cricket. i love it, i 'ust don't understand it. h love cricket. i love it, ijust don't understand it. all - love cricket. i love it, ijust don't understand it. all we | love cricket. i love it, ijust - don't understand it. all we want is the tame don't understand it. all we want is the game i — don't understand it. all we want is the game i grew — don't understand it. all we want is the game i grew pp _ don't understand it. all we want is the game i grew up watching, - don't understand it. all we want is the game i grew up watching, or. don't understand it. all we want is . the game i grew up watching, or what ithought— the game i grew up watching, or what i thought the game to be, we just want _ i thought the game to be, we just want a _ i thought the game to be, we just want a nice — i thought the game to be, we just want a nice game for everyone and that is— want a nice game for everyone and that is regardless of race, gender or any— that is regardless of race, gender or any other things.— that is regardless of race, gender or any other things. thank you very much. in or any other things. thank you very much- in a — or any other things. thank you very much. in a morning _ or any other things. thank you very much. in a morning a _ or any other things. thank you very much. in a morning a very - or any other things. thank you very much. in a morning a very strikingl much. in a morning a very striking testimony. — much. in a morning a very striking testimony. one— much. in a morning a very striking testimony, one thing _ much. in a morning a very striking testimony, one thing has- much. in a morning a very striking testimony, one thing has stood i much. in a morning a very strikingl testimony, one thing has stood out for me. _ testimony, one thing has stood out for me. the — testimony, one thing has stood out for me. the story— testimony, one thing has stood out for me, the story you _ testimony, one thing has stood out for me, the story you told - testimony, one thing has stood out for me, the story you told about i for me, the story you told about being _ for me, the story you told about being 15— for me, the story you told about being 15 years _ for me, the story you told about being 15 years of _ for me, the story you told about being 15 years of age _ for me, the story you told about being 15 years of age and - for me, the story you told about being 15 years of age and an- for me, the story you told about i being 15 years of age and an older man pouring— being 15 years of age and an older man pouring red _ being 15 years of age and an older man pouring red wine _ being 15 years of age and an older man pouring red wine down- being 15 years of age and an older man pouring red wine down your. man pouring red wine down your throat _ man pouring red wine down your throat did — man pouring red wine down your throat. did nobody, _ man pouring red wine down your throat. did nobody, was - man pouring red wine down your throat. did nobody, was anyonei man pouring red wine down your- throat. did nobody, was anyone else there. _ throat. did nobody, was anyone else there. did _ throat. did nobody, was anyone else there. did no— throat. did nobody, was anyone else there, did no one _ throat. did nobody, was anyone else there, did no one intervene - throat. did nobody, was anyone else there, did no one intervene when . there, did no one intervene when that was— there, did no one intervene when that was happening _ there, did no one intervene when that was happening to _ there, did no one intervene when that was happening to you? - there, did no one intervene when that was happening to you? we l there, did no one intervene when that was happening to you? we were in a car and — that was happening to you? we were in a car and l — that was happening to you? we were in a car and i have _ that was happening to you? we were in a car and i have a _ that was happening to you? we were in a car and i have a witness - that was happening to you? we were in a car and i have a witness that - in a car and i have a witness that was there — in a car and i have a witness that was there that can corroborate the events _ was there that can corroborate the events no. — was there that can corroborate the events. no, no one did. looking back, _ events. no, no one did. looking back. to— events. no, no one did. looking back. to be _ events. no, no one did. looking back, to be honest, and talking about— back, to be honest, and talking about all— back, to be honest, and talking about all these experiences on the question— about all these experiences on the question about why would go back and why not— question about why would go back and why not raise it earlier? i am angry at myself— why not raise it earlier? i am angry at myself for — why not raise it earlier? i am angry at myself for looking the other way. clearly _ at myself for looking the other way. clearly i _ at myself for looking the other way. clearly i wasn't strong enough. i clearly i wasn't strong enough. i think clearly i wasn't strong enough. think you clearly i wasn't strong enough. i think you are being too hard on yourself — think you are being too hard on yourself. you're _ think you are being too hard on yourself. you're only— think you are being too hard on yourself. you're only 15- think you are being too hard on yourself. you're only 15 and - think you are being too hard on yourself. you're only 15 and ati think you are being too hard on. yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years _ yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of— yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age _ yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age all— yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age all of— yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age all of us _ yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age all of us do - yourself. you're only 15 and at 15 years of age all of us do things l yourself. you're only 15 and at 15| years of age all of us do things to try to _ years of age all of us do things to try to fit — years of age all of us do things to try to fit in. — years of age all of us do things to try to fit in, it's _ years of age all of us do things to try to fit in, it's human _ years of age all of us do things to try to fit in, it's human nature. i try to fit in, it's human nature. the _ try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults— try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults in— try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults in the _ try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults in the room, - try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults in the room, or- try to fit in, it's human nature. the adults in the room, or in l try to fit in, it's human nature. . the adults in the room, or in this case _ the adults in the room, or in this case the — the adults in the room, or in this case the adults _ the adults in the room, or in this case the adults in— the adults in the room, or in this case the adults in the _ the adults in the room, or in this case the adults in the car- the adults in the room, or in this case the adults in the car should | case the adults in the car should have _ case the adults in the car should have intervened. _ case the adults in the car should have intervened. there - case the adults in the car should have intervened. there are - case the adults in the car should have intervened. there are lotsi case the adults in the car should i have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels — have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels in— have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels in the _ have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels in the stories - have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels in the stories that - have intervened. there are lots of scoundrels in the stories that you | scoundrels in the stories that you have _ scoundrels in the stories that you have told — scoundrels in the stories that you have told us _ scoundrels in the stories that you have told us today. _ scoundrels in the stories that you have told us today. are _ scoundrels in the stories that you have told us today. are there - scoundrels in the stories that you have told us today. are there any heroes? — have told us today. are there any heroes? can _ have told us today. are there any heroes? can you _ have told us today. are there any heroes? can you think _ have told us today. are there any heroes? can you think of - have told us today. are there any heroes? can you think of peoplei have told us today. are there any - heroes? can you think of people who have stayed — heroes? can you think of people who have stayed up— heroes? can you think of people who have stayed up for— heroes? can you think of people who have stayed up for you? _ look, tino best has been publicly involved — look, tino best has been publicly involved in— look, tino best has been publicly involved in standing up for me. when involved in standing up for me. when the buildin: involved in standing up for me. when the building was _ involved in standing up for me. when the building was happening did anyone — the building was happening did anyone stand _ the building was happening did anyone stand up _ the building was happening did anyone stand up for— the building was happening did anyone stand up for you? - the building was happening did anyone stand up for you? no. i the building was happening did l anyone stand up for you? no. so the building was happening did - anyone stand up for you? no. so you are on anyone stand up for you? so you are on the change room anyone stand up for you ?- so you are on the change room feeling - are on the change room feeling isolated — are on the change room feeling isolated and _ are on the change room feeling isolated and subjected - are on the change room feeling isolated and subjected to - are on the change room feeling . isolated and subjected to bullying like this— isolated and subjected to bullying like this and — isolated and subjected to bullying like this and having _ isolated and subjected to bullying like this and having wine - isolated and subjected to bullying like this and having wine poured i like this and having wine poured down _ like this and having wine poured down your— like this and having wine poured down your throat— like this and having wine poured down your throat as _ like this and having wine poured down your throat as you - like this and having wine poured down your throat as you told - like this and having wine poured down your throat as you told us| like this and having wine poured - down your throat as you told us and you can't— down your throat as you told us and you can't remember— down your throat as you told us and you can't remember a _ down your throat as you told us and you can't remember a single - down your throat as you told us andj you can't remember a single person who stood _ you can't remember a single person who stood up— you can't remember a single person who stood up for— you can't remember a single person who stood up for you? _ you can't remember a single person who stood up for you? some - you can't remember a single person who stood up for you? some might| who stood up for you? some might know, _ who stood up for you? some might know. i_ who stood up for you? some might know. ithink— who stood up for you? some might know, i think that _ who stood up for you? some might know, i think that is— who stood up for you? some might know, i think that is the _ who stood up for you? some might know, i think that is the situation. i know, i think that is the situation. you had _ know, i think that is the situation. you had people _ know, i think that is the situation. you had people who _ know, i think that is the situation. you had people who were - know, i think that is the situation. you had people who were openlyi you had people who were openly racist _ you had people who were openly racist and — you had people who were openly racist and you _ you had people who were openly racist and you had _ you had people who were openly racist and you had the _ you had people who were openly| racist and you had the bystanders and a _ racist and you had the bystanders and a lot— racist and you had the bystanders and a lot of— racist and you had the bystanders and a lot of people _ racist and you had the bystanders and a lot of people watched - racist and you had the bystanders and a lot of people watched it - and a lot of people watched it happen — and a lot of people watched it ha . .e ., ., and a lot of people watched it ha .e ., ., ., and a lot of people watched it ha . ., ., ., happen and no one felt it was important _ happen and no one felt it was important and _ happen and no one felt it was important and no _ happen and no one felt it was important and no one - happen and no one felt it was important and no one felt - happen and no one felt it was i important and no one felt strong enough — important and no one felt strong enough to— important and no one felt strong enough to stand up and goal, no, what _ enough to stand up and goal, no, what are — enough to stand up and goal, no, what are you doing what you stop. we might— what are you doing what you stop. we might do— what are you doing what you stop. we might do you think class was an issue _ might do you think class was an issue as — might do you think class was an issue as well as race? to be honest, i'm issue as well as race? to be honest, i'm not— issue as well as race? to be honest, i'm not sure — issue as well as race? to be honest, l'm not sure-— i'm not sure. because it is quite a osh i'm not sure. because it is quite a posh game- _ i'm not sure. because it is quite a posh game- we — i'm not sure. because it is quite a posh game. we are _ i'm not sure. because it is quite a posh game. we are more - i'm not sure. because it is quite a posh game. we are more likely i i'm not sure. because it is quite a| posh game. we are more likely to play cricket — posh game. we are more likely to play cricket if _ posh game. we are more likely to play cricket if you _ posh game. we are more likely to play cricket if you go _ posh game. we are more likely to play cricket if you go to _ posh game. we are more likely to play cricket if you go to public i play cricket if you go to public school — play cricket if you go to public school you _ play cricket if you go to public school. you are _ play cricket if you go to public school. you are more - play cricket if you go to public school. you are more likely. play cricket if you go to public| school. you are more likely to play cricket if you go to public i school. you are more likely to end ”p school. you are more likely to end up as— school. you are more likely to end up as a _ school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer _ school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer if _ school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer if you _ school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer if you go - school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer if you go to - school. you are more likely to end up as a cricketer if you go to one l up as a cricketer if you go to one of the _ up as a cricketer if you go to one of the schools? _ up as a cricketer if you go to one of the schools?— up as a cricketer if you go to one of the schools? again, i don't know the exact statistics _ of the schools? again, i don't know the exact statistics around - of the schools? again, i don't know the exact statistics around here i the exact statistics around here but a gentleman is then a phd round that funded _ a gentleman is then a phd round that funded by— a gentleman is then a phd round that funded by the ecb and his research has been _ funded by the ecb and his research has been ignored but in the last four years — has been ignored but in the last four years i think there is a massive _ four years i think there is a massive class divide and i don't know— massive class divide and i don't know the — massive class divide and i don't know the exact terms which are a lot more _ know the exact terms which are a lot more likely— know the exact terms which are a lot more likely to be a professional cricketer— more likely to be a professional cricketer if you go to private school — cricketer if you go to private school but you are even more likely to be _ school but you are even more likely to be a _ school but you are even more likely to be a professional cricketer if you're — to be a professional cricketer if you're white and go to private school — you're white and go to private school. ., ., ,., , school. you quoted some figures earlier on which _ school. you quoted some figures earlier on which i _ school. you quoted some figures earlier on which i thought - school. you quoted some figures earlier on which i thought were l school. you quoted some figures i earlier on which i thought were very striking _ earlier on which i thought were very striking which _ earlier on which i thought were very striking. which is _ earlier on which i thought were very striking. which is that _ earlier on which i thought were very striking. which is that amongst i striking. which is that amongst recreational— striking. which is that amongst recreational cricketers - striking. which is that amongst recreational cricketers 30% i striking. which is that amongst recreational cricketers 30% are i recreational cricketers 30% are english — recreational cricketers 30% are english asians. _ recreational cricketers 30% are english asians. but _ recreational cricketers 30% are english asians. but in - recreational cricketers 30% are english asians. but in the i english asians. but in the professional— english asians. but in the professional game - english asians. but in the professional game only. english asians. but in the i professional game only 4% are english — professional game only 4% are english asians. _ professional game only 4% are english asians. that _ professional game only 4% are english asians. that is - professional game only 4% are english asians. that is a - professional game only 4% are i english asians. that is a shocking statistic— english asians. that is a shocking statistic because _ english asians. that is a shocking statistic because it _ english asians. that is a shocking statistic because it shows - english asians. that is a shocking statistic because it shows there . english asians. that is a shocking i statistic because it shows there are lots of— statistic because it shows there are lots of people — statistic because it shows there are lots of people out _ statistic because it shows there are lots of people out there _ statistic because it shows there are lots of people out there who - statistic because it shows there are lots of people out there who want i statistic because it shows there are. lots of people out there who want to play cricket — lots of people out there who want to play cricket efficiently _ lots of people out there who want to play cricket efficiently but _ lots of people out there who want to play cricket efficiently but they- play cricket efficiently but they 'ust play cricket efficiently but they just can't — play cricket efficiently but they just can't get _ play cricket efficiently but they just can't get in— play cricket efficiently but they just can't get in to _ play cricket efficiently but they just can't get in to play- play cricket efficiently but they just can't get in to play cricket| just can't get in to play cricket because — just can't get in to play cricket because of— just can't get in to play cricket because of their— just can't get in to play cricket because of their colour. - just can't get in to play cricket because of their colour. —— i because of their colour. —— professionally. _ because of their colour. -- professionally.— because of their colour. -- professionally. because of their colour. -- rofessionall . . . , . , ., professionally. data and stats are re professionally. data and stats are pretty revealing _ professionally. data and stats are pretty revealing and _ professionally. data and stats are pretty revealing and you - professionally. data and stats are pretty revealing and you dive i professionally. data and stats are pretty revealing and you dive in i pretty revealing and you dive in more _ pretty revealing and you dive in more and — pretty revealing and you dive in more and it's even worse. what you think the representation _ more and it's even worse. what you think the representation of - think the representation of minorities— think the representation of minorities has— think the representation of minorities has increased i think the representation of minorities has increased ini think the representation of - minorities has increased in football and decreased _ minorities has increased in football and decreased in _ minorities has increased in football and decreased in cricket? - minorities has increased in football and decreased in cricket?— minorities has increased in football and decreased in cricket? look, i am not fully ensuring _ and decreased in cricket? look, i am not fully ensuring with _ and decreased in cricket? look, i am not fully ensuring with football i and decreased in cricket? look, i am not fully ensuring with football but . not fully ensuring with football but what i've _ not fully ensuring with football but what i've seen over the last year and a _ what i've seen over the last year and a half— what i've seen over the last year and a half is from high profile footballers are showing the world how to _ footballers are showing the world how to behave. such as marcus rashford — how to behave. such as marcus rashford. we how to behave. such as marcus rashford. ~ ., how to behave. such as marcus rashford. ~ . . . . rashford. we are watching coverage of azeem rafiq _ rashford. we are watching coverage of azeem rafiq giving _ rashford. we are watching coverage of azeem rafiq giving evidence - rashford. we are watching coverage of azeem rafiq giving evidence to i rashford. we are watching coverage of azeem rafiq giving evidence to al of azeem rafiq giving evidence to a committee of mps about his racist treatment at yorkshire cricket club and we are aware of some of you at home finding some of the language or hearing upsetting. he is saying the language that was used against himself and even coming out of his mouth i know that is upsetting some of you. so we are bringing this hearing to you. it is covered under parliamentary privilege which means that there is openness in this hearing in terms of what he can say and the allegations he can make and we apologise if you're offended the language but of course it does convey very strongly what he himself was dealing with when he was playing for yorkshire. was dealing with when he was playing foryorkshire. so was dealing with when he was playing for yorkshire. so we will continue to listen. . . ., to listen. the audience, the women are not here — to listen. the audience, the women are not here because _ to listen. the audience, the women are not here because the _ to listen. the audience, the women are not here because the game - to listen. the audience, the women l are not here because the game does not invite _ are not here because the game does not invite women. it is so easy to look_ not invite women. it is so easy to look and — not invite women. it is so easy to look and say— not invite women. it is so easy to look and say they are not interested but actually is the game doing enough? _ but actually is the game doing enough? are leaders within the game doin- enough? are leaders within the game doing enough? do i believe i lost my career_ doing enough? do i believe i lost my career to— doing enough? do i believe i lost my career to racism? yes, doing enough? do i believe i lost my careerto racism? yes, i doing enough? do i believe i lost my career to racism? yes, i do. that must be a _ career to racism? yes, i do. that must be a terrible _ career to racism? yes, i do. that must be a terrible feeling career to racism? yes, i do. that. must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still— must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still young _ must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still young man, _ must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still young man, so - must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still young man, so to - must be a terrible feeling horrible. you are still young man, so to be i you are still young man, so to be looking _ you are still young man, so to be looking at— you are still young man, so to be looking at your _ you are still young man, so to be looking at your age _ you are still young man, so to be looking at your age at _ you are still young man, so to be looking at your age at a - you are still young man, so to be looking at your age at a loss - you are still young man, so to be i looking at your age at a loss career must _ looking at your age at a loss career must be _ looking at your age at a loss career must be very— looking at your age at a loss career must be very upsetting. _ looking at your age at a loss career must be very upsetting.— must be very upsetting. yeah, horrible, but _ must be very upsetting. yeah, horrible, but maybe _ must be very upsetting. yeah, horrible, but maybe what - must be very upsetting. yeah, horrible, but maybe what was| must be very upsetting. yeah, - horrible, but maybe what was written for me _ horrible, but maybe what was written for me was _ horrible, but maybe what was written for me was this. maybe that isjust what _ for me was this. maybe that isjust what it— for me was this. maybe that isjust what it was — for me was this. maybe that isjust what it was. i am a massive believer everything _ what it was. i am a massive believer everything happens for a reason and like i everything happens for a reason and like i said _ everything happens for a reason and like i said hopefully in five years' time _ like i said hopefully in five years' time we — like i said hopefully in five years' time we will see a big change and i can look— time we will see a big change and i can look back at it that i did something that is far bigger then any runs— something that is far bigger then any runs i— something that is far bigger then any runs i got a venue wickets that i any runs i got a venue wickets that i got _ any runs i got a venue wickets that i got -- _ any runs i got a venue wickets that tgot~ -- or— any runs i got a venue wickets that i got. —— orany any runs i got a venue wickets that i got. —— or any wickets that i got. i got. —— or any wickets that i got. i hope _ i got. —— or any wickets that i got. i hope you're _ i got. —— or any wickets that i got. i hope you're right and that your test testimony— i hope you're right and that your test testimony today— i hope you're right and that your test testimony today will - i hope you're right and that your test testimony today will be - i hope you're right and that your| test testimony today will be part i hope you're right and that your. test testimony today will be part of it. test testimony today will be part of it you _ test testimony today will be part of it. you mentioned _ test testimony today will be part of it. you mentioned your— test testimony today will be part of it. you mentioned your wife - test testimony today will be part of it. you mentioned your wife and i it. you mentioned your wife and three _ it. you mentioned your wife and three your— it. you mentioned your wife and three your travails— it. you mentioned your wife and three your travails it _ it. you mentioned your wife and three your travails it is - it. you mentioned your wife and three your travails it is clear- it. you mentioned your wife andi three your travails it is clear you have _ three your travails it is clear you have a _ three your travails it is clear you have a very— three your travails it is clear you have a very strong _ three your travails it is clear you have a very strong partnership l three your travails it is clear you i have a very strong partnership with her and _ have a very strong partnership with her and that— have a very strong partnership with her and that of— have a very strong partnership with her and that of course _ have a very strong partnership with her and that of course is _ have a very strong partnership with her and that of course is the - her and that of course is the bedrock— her and that of course is the bedrock of— her and that of course is the bedrock of lots _ her and that of course is the bedrock of lots of _ her and that of course is the bedrock of lots of people . bedrock of lots of people satellites. _ bedrock of lots of people satellites. i— bedrock of lots of people satellites. i want - bedrock of lots of people satellites. i want to - bedrock of lots of people satellites. i want to ask. bedrock of lots of people i satellites. i want to ask you bedrock of lots of people - satellites. i want to ask you how she has— satellites. i want to ask you how she has coped _ satellites. i want to ask you how she has coped with _ satellites. i want to ask you how she has coped with this - satellites. i want to ask you how she has coped with this and - satellites. i want to ask you how she has coped with this and howi satellites. i want to ask you how - she has coped with this and how she is now— she has coped with this and how she is now coping — she has coped with this and how she is now coping with _ she has coped with this and how she is now coping with all— she has coped with this and how she is now coping with all that _ she has coped with this and how she is now coping with all that she - she has coped with this and how she is now coping with all that she was l is now coping with all that she was a famity— is now coping with all that she was a family have _ is now coping with all that she was a family have had _ is now coping with all that she was a family have had to— is now coping with all that she was a family have had to endure. - a family have had to endure. struggted _ a family have had to endure. struggted and _ a family have had to endure. struggled and still— a family have had to endure. struggled and still continuesi a family have had to endure. . struggled and still continues to. over_ struggled and still continues to. over the — struggled and still continues to. over the last 15 months, we have two young _ over the last 15 months, we have two young kids _ over the last 15 months, we have two young kids and one isjust over two and the _ young kids and one isjust over two and the other about to turn one and they have _ and the other about to turn one and they have not had a dad, really, because — they have not had a dad, really, because all— they have not had a dad, really, because all i have been worried about— because all i have been worried about is— because all i have been worried about is yorkshire going out to discredit — about is yorkshire going out to discredit me and how i am going to deal with— discredit me and how i am going to deal with it — discredit me and how i am going to deal with it and my lawyers dealing with press— deal with it and my lawyers dealing with press so challenging, but i hope _ with press so challenging, but i hope today provide some sort of closure — hope today provide some sort of closure and i can treat her for what she deserves. closure and i can treat her for what she deserves— closure and i can treat her for what she deserves._ that - she deserves. thank you. that concludes _ she deserves. thank you. that concludes our _ she deserves. thank you. that concludes our first _ she deserves. thank you. that concludes our first panel - she deserves. thank you. that concludes our first panel and l she deserves. thank you. that i concludes our first panel and we will take a short adjournment of two minutes as we set up our second panel. that's testimony from azeem rafiq coming to an end, a very emotional testimony running through everything experienced in the language used against them and how he didn't open up against them and how he didn't open up for a very long time. he said perhaps it was more bullying when he started to look back and even digesting it was racism was a very difficult thing he said he had to come to terms with and we had right at the end there the impact, the very difficult impact on him and also on his family and he said that dealing with this has taken from his family because it has been so all—consuming. he said when he decided to speak out he felt it was his duty to be a voice for the voiceless and that is why he has gone on to do what he has done in spite of the great difficulties he himself and his family have encountered. one of the particular moving parts of his evidence was when he described how the death of his child acted as a catalyst. so right till the end, i was in complete denial of what was going on. it was only around the back end of 2017, when i lost my son, i went, you know what, hold on a minute. i've seen other players have family tragedies and get support beyond measure and i'vejust carried my son from the hospital to the graveyard and how i am getting treated here is not right, and to me, it became very clear that even myself, i had been looking the other way and there's a real problem here not just at yorkshire, throughout the country, and i'm going to be the one that is going to speak about this. throughout the country, and i'm going to be the laura scott has been listening to the evidence. azeem rafiq had said today would be a time for troups and so the racism crisis that has engulfed yorkshire those troups approved and comfortable. nearly two hours of evidence he gave to mps just now. he said he had arrived at yorkshire with a dream of playing for england and in the dressing room were some of his heroes such as michael vaughan and matthew hoggard but he said that quite quickly he realised there was a constant use of racial slurs and derogatory nicknames to non—white players and an acceptance from the institution no one had stamped it out. he said he had felt gas lighted when he raised complaints and recalled how when he was 15 he was forced to drink red wine. he then spoke movingly and you have just heard about his son being stillborn in the treatment he received from the club in response to that. he described that treatment is inhuman. he said he was ripped to shreds by the director of cricket martyn moxon the day after his son was born. he said there were three bets to what he had been through, at yorkshire and the investigation by yorkshire and the staggering decision by yorkshire not to take any disciplinary action when it was found he had been the victim of racial harassment and bullying and then he said the cover—up, there was an arrogance and filling club was an arrogance and filling club was untouchable and a sense that little azeem rafiq would not be believed. during his testimony there were organisations and individuals that came in for criticism. he said it was quite wrong for michael vaughan, the former yorkshire and england captain to use his position as a columnist to deny an allegation azeem rafiq had made against them that in 2009 had told a group of asian players that too many of you, we need to do something about it. those that allegations that michael vaughan denies. he also mentionsjoe root saying last week he could not recall witnessing hearing about racism at yorkshire and azeem rafiq said he couldn't believe that but you never had anything from joe root himself. he said pca the had been inept and he had pleaded with the england and wales cricket board to help deal with the crisis and they hadn't done anything although azeem rafiq had said he was suicidal and said they ecb should stop hamming it off to others. he said all he ever wanted to be was accepted so this does not happen to my children. he said he did not want his son to play cricket at the moment but would like to do so in future if he can ensure it was a safe place to play cricket. and lastly he spoke about the institutional racism believe there is notjust in yorkshire but in the wider game and he said this is a problem up and down the country with a constant use of racial slurs. it was an emotional evidence session of nearly two hours and he broke down on several occasions but said he wanted to provide a voice to the voiceless. we do know is a committee that mr arthurs and mr moxon were both invited but they have chosen not to. first of all, you have been sat in the room — first of all, you have been sat in the room throughout _ first of all, you have been sat in the room throughout this, - first of all, you have been sat in the room throughout this, mr. first of all, you have been sat in- the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do _ the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do you _ the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do you make _ the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do you make you _ the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do you make you have _ the room throughout this, mr hutton, what do you make you have heard - the room throughout this, mr hutton, i what do you make you have heard from azeem _ what do you make you have heard from azeem rafiq? — what do you make you have heard from azeem rafiq?— azeem rafiq? azeem rafiq was brilliantly powerful— azeem rafiq? azeem rafiq was brilliantly powerful anti-spoke l brilliantly powerful anti—spoke brilliantly powerful anti—spoke brilliantly and it makes me so sad what he is going through. i have apologised in a couple of occasions that would repeat my profound apology for the experiences he's had at the club and he has been phenomenally brave and i thought it was very particular today and has done an outstanding job today. what done an outstanding 'ob today. what are our done an outstanding 'ob today. what your views _ done an outstanding 'ob today. what are your views that — done an outstanding job today. what are your views that mr arthurs and mr mokon— are your views that mr arthurs and mr moxon have _ are your views that mr arthurs and mr moxon have chose _ are your views that mr arthurs and mr moxon have chose not - are your views that mr arthurs and mr moxon have chose not to- are your views that mr arthurs and| mr moxon have chose not to attend and the _ mr moxon have chose not to attend and the way — mr moxon have chose not to attend and the way they— mr moxon have chose not to attend and the way they have _ mr moxon have chose not to attend and the way they have handled - mr moxon have chose not to attend and the way they have handled this| and the way they have handled this enquiry? _ and the way they have handled this enquiry? l— and the way they have handled this enaui ? . . , and the way they have handled this enaui ? . _ enquiry? i am deeply disappointed the are enquiry? i am deeply disappointed they are not _ enquiry? i am deeply disappointed they are not here _ enquiry? i am deeply disappointed they are not here today _ enquiry? i am deeply disappointed they are not here today and - they are not here today and essentially azeem's allegations and there are a number and they stem from 2007 and 2018 and i agreed to be chairman after he had left and i thought it would be right for the club have representatives today with our whilst azeem was employed. and had a direct relationship with him. i have literally never met azeem until this morning. share i have literally never met azeem until this morning.— i have literally never met azeem until this morning. are the cowards? i think the answer _ until this morning. are the cowards? i think the answer is _ until this morning. are the cowards? i think the answer is for _ until this morning. are the cowards? i think the answer is for the - until this morning. are the cowards? i think the answer is for the two - i think the answer is for the two executives, they found this whole process very difficult and they have failed in my view to accept the gravity of the situation. they have not wanted to apologise and they have not wanted to take the recommendations of the panel going forward. azeem made a very powerful point this morning about this being an opportunity for the club to change and at the very start when the investigation started this is what i and other executives thought that this has turned out not to be the case. fist that this has turned out not to be the case. �* ., , . ., ~ ., , the case. at one stage to know this was auoin the case. at one stage to know this was going to _ the case. at one stage to know this was going to happen, _ the case. at one stage to know this was going to happen, that - the case. at one stage to know this was going to happen, that the - was going to happen, that the permanent— was going to happen, that the permanent directors - was going to happen, that the permanent directors were - was going to happen, that the - permanent directors were effectively iioii'i permanent directors were effectively going to _ permanent directors were effectively going to blockade _ permanent directors were effectively going to blockade any _ permanent directors were effectively going to blockade any attempts - permanent directors were effectively going to blockade any attempts to l going to blockade any attempts to move _ going to blockade any attempts to move the — going to blockade any attempts to move the club— going to blockade any attempts to move the club forward? _ going to blockade any attempts to move the club forward?— going to blockade any attempts to move the club forward? there were a number of signals _ move the club forward? there were a number of signals throughout - move the club forward? there were a number of signals throughout this - number of signals throughout this process, there was a moment when i was asked if we could abandon the investigation by one of the executives.— investigation by one of the executives. ~ ., . , ., ., . ., executives. who asked you to abandon the investigation? _ executives. who asked you to abandon the investigation? the _ executives. who asked you to abandon the investigation? the ceo _ executives. who asked you to abandon the investigation? the ceo asked - executives. who asked you to abandon the investigation? the ceo asked if- the investigation? the ceo asked if we could abandon _ the investigation? the ceo asked if we could abandon investigation. . the investigation? the ceo asked if we could abandon investigation. in | we could abandon investigation. in june 2020, of this year 2021 there was an employment tribunal and the non—executives and i were very anxious that for good reason that employment tribunal was set up essentially because the club at a minimum knew it had done things that were wrong and at that stage you'll made it clear he would not and didn't want to apologise to azeem rafiq. 50 didn't want to apologise to azeem rafi. didn't want to apologise to azeem rafi _ , didn't want to apologise to azeem rafi. , , . didn't want to apologise to azeem rafi. ,, . ., rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot sa that rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that _ rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that is _ rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that is what _ rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that is what he - rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that is what he told - rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot say that that is what he told me. rafiq. so it is personal? i cannot i say that that is what he told me. at an early— say that that is what he told me. at an early stage — say that that is what he told me. at an early stage i_ say that that is what he told me. at an early stage i suggested - say that that is what he told me. at an early stage i suggested that - an early stage i suggested that azeem — an early stage i suggested that azeem rafig _ an early stage i suggested that azeem rafiq. might— an early stage i suggested that azeem rafiq. might be - an early stage i suggested that azeem rafiq. might be part- an early stage i suggested that azeem rafiq. might be part of| an early stage i suggested that. azeem rafiq. might be part of the process— azeem rafiq. might be part of the process of— azeem rafiq. might be part of the process of reconciliation _ azeem rafiq. might be part of the process of reconciliation and - process of reconciliation and healing _ process of reconciliation and healing and _ process of reconciliation and healing and driving - process of reconciliation and healing and driving a - process of reconciliation and| healing and driving a positive agenda — healing and driving a positive agenda going _ healing and driving a positive agenda going forward - healing and driving a positive agenda going forward and - healing and driving a positive agenda going forward and i. healing and driving a positive . agenda going forward and i was healing and driving a positive - agenda going forward and i was told he would _ agenda going forward and i was told he would not — agenda going forward and i was told he would not be _ agenda going forward and i was told he would not be welcome. - agenda going forward and i was told he would not be welcome. so- agenda going forward and i was told he would not be welcome. so there| he would not be welcome. so there were these — he would not be welcome. so there were these isolated _ he would not be welcome. so there were these isolated moments - were these isolated moments throughout— were these isolated moments throughout the _ were these isolated moments throughout the course - were these isolated moments throughout the course of- were these isolated moments throughout the course of that| throughout the course of that investigation. the biggest issues came to my light after the report was produced on the 17th of august of this year and beyond when there was a clear resistance to see azeem as the victim and a clear resistance to apologise and more worryingly a failure to look at the recommendations the panel had put forward and start executing them this will not happen again in the future. ' ., ~ , future. ok. so the 17th of august, that's when _ future. ok. so the 17th of august, that's when you _ future. ok. so the 17th of august, that's when you became _ future. ok. so the 17th of august, that's when you became aware - that's when you became aware effectively _ that's when you became aware effectively they _ that's when you became aware effectively they wanted - that's when you became aware effectively they wanted to - that's when you became aware effectively they wanted to sit i that's when you became awarei effectively they wanted to sit in the report? _ effectively they wanted to sit in the report?— the report? there is not one definina the report? there is not one defining moment. _ the report? there is not one defining moment. you - the report? there is not one defining moment. you are i the report? there is not one| defining moment. you are in the report? there is not one l defining moment. you are in a boardroom and hoping to create change from within and yes, i saw resistance and the resistance are collated. d0 resistance and the resistance are collated. , ., resistance and the resistance are collated. i. i. collated. do you regret the fact you didn't resign _ collated. do you regret the fact you didn't resign earlier? _ collated. do you regret the fact you didn't resign earlier? you _ collated. do you regret the fact you didn't resign earlier? you obviouslyj didn't resign earlier? you obviously resigned _ didn't resign earlier? you obviously resigned once — didn't resign earlier? you obviously resigned once this— didn't resign earlier? you obviously resigned once this had _ didn't resign earlier? you obviously resigned once this had happened i didn't resign earlier? you obviously. resigned once this had happened and he wanted _ resigned once this had happened and he wanted to— resigned once this had happened and he wanted to come _ resigned once this had happened and he wanted to come here _ resigned once this had happened and he wanted to come here as— resigned once this had happened and he wanted to come here as chair- resigned once this had happened and he wanted to come here as chair and| he wanted to come here as chair and then resign — he wanted to come here as chair and then resign but — he wanted to come here as chair and then resign but circumstances - he wanted to come here as chair and then resign but circumstances do - he wanted to come here as chair and| then resign but circumstances do not allow— then resign but circumstances do not allow it _ then resign but circumstances do not allow it you — then resign but circumstances do not allow it. you have _ then resign but circumstances do not allow it. you have seen— then resign but circumstances do not allow it. you have seen from - then resign but circumstances do not allow it. you have seen from essex. allow it. you have seen from essex where _ allow it. you have seen from essex where the — allow it. you have seen from essex where the n — allow it. you have seen from essex where the n word _ allow it. you have seen from essex where the n word was _ allow it. you have seen from essex where the n word was used - allow it. you have seen from essex where the n word was used by- allow it. you have seen from essex where the n word was used by one| allow it. you have seen from essex. where the n word was used by one of the board _ where the n word was used by one of the board members— where the n word was used by one of the board members and _ where the n word was used by one of the board members and the - where the n word was used by one of the board members and the evidence came forward — the board members and the evidence came forward and _ the board members and the evidence came forward and mr— the board members and the evidence came forward and mr stevenson, - the board members and the evidence came forward and mr stevenson, the| came forward and mr stevenson, the chair, _ came forward and mr stevenson, the chair. said _ came forward and mr stevenson, the chair. said if— came forward and mr stevenson, the chair, said if this _ came forward and mr stevenson, the chair, said if this is _ came forward and mr stevenson, the chair, said if this is not _ came forward and mr stevenson, the chair, said if this is not dealt - chair, said if this is not dealt with— chair, said if this is not dealt with i— chair, said if this is not dealt with l resign _ chair, said if this is not dealt with i resign. why— chair, said if this is not dealt with i resign. why did - chair, said if this is not dealt with i resign. why did you i chair, said if this is not dealtl with i resign. why did you not chair, said if this is not dealt - with i resign. why did you not take similar— with i resign. why did you not take similar action? _ with i resign. why did you not take similaraction? [— with i resign. why did you not take similar action?— similar action? i believe the club culture was _ similar action? i believe the club culture was stuck _ similar action? i believe the club culture was stuck in _ similar action? i believe the club culture was stuck in the - similar action? i believe the club culture was stuck in the past - similar action? i believe the club culture was stuck in the past and similar action? i believe the club l culture was stuck in the past and i think the club culture needs changing. i didn't see that my resigning would be the way of changing that culture in august. i thought that my best way of changing it is trying to change it from within until it became apparent that i was no longer able to do that. do ou i was no longer able to do that. do you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider— you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider if— you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider if he _ you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider if he had _ you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider if he had said - you regret that choice? clearly as an outsider if he had said in - you regret that choice? clearly as i an outsider if he had said in august this is— an outsider if he had said in august this is vastly — an outsider if he had said in august this is vastly out _ an outsider if he had said in august this is vastly out of _ an outsider if he had said in august this is vastly out of order, - an outsider if he had said in august this is vastly out of order, you - this is vastly out of order, you dinosaurs— this is vastly out of order, you dinosaurs are _ this is vastly out of order, you dinosaurs are holding - this is vastly out of order, you dinosaurs are holding this - this is vastly out of order, you - dinosaurs are holding this process up, dinosaurs are holding this process up. and _ dinosaurs are holding this process up. and frankly— dinosaurs are holding this process up, and frankly we _ dinosaurs are holding this process up, and frankly we need _ dinosaurs are holding this process up, and frankly we need to - dinosaurs are holding this process up, and frankly we need to put. dinosaurs are holding this processl up, and frankly we need to put this out in _ up, and frankly we need to put this out in the — up, and frankly we need to put this out in the public _ up, and frankly we need to put this out in the public domain _ up, and frankly we need to put this out in the public domain and - out in the public domain and apologise _ out in the public domain and apologise and _ out in the public domain and apologise and move - out in the public domain and i apologise and move forwards, out in the public domain and - apologise and move forwards, and we need to— apologise and move forwards, and we need to basically— apologise and move forwards, and we need to basically understand - apologise and move forwards, and we need to basically understand what - need to basically understand what the prohlem — need to basically understand what the prohlem is _ need to basically understand what the problem is stop— need to basically understand what the problem is stop do— need to basically understand what the problem is stop do you - need to basically understand what the problem is stop do you regret| the problem is stop do you regret the problem is stop do you regret the fact— the problem is stop do you regret the fact you — the problem is stop do you regret the fact you did _ the problem is stop do you regret the fact you did to _ the problem is stop do you regret the fact you did to that _ the problem is stop do you regret the fact you did to that point - the problem is stop do you regret| the fact you did to that point make a stand? _ the fact you did to that point make a stand? l— the fact you did to that point make a stand? ., �* .. . , ., a stand? i don't, actually. it would have been — a stand? i don't, actually. it would have been easy — a stand? i don't, actually. it would have been easy for _ a stand? i don't, actually. it would have been easy for me _ a stand? i don't, actually. it would have been easy for me personallyl a stand? i don't, actually. it would i have been easy for me personally had i done so and i wouldn't be criticised for not having left earlier but no, i believe trying to continue make the change actually has made this more of an issue. you mean by screwing up to such an extent — mean by screwing up to such an extent it — mean by screwing up to such an extent it has _ mean by screwing up to such an extent it has made _ mean by screwing up to such an extent it has made it— mean by screwing up to such an extent it has made it an - mean by screwing up to such an extent it has made it an issue? | mean by screwing up to such an - extent it has made it an issue? no, b not extent it has made it an issue? by not capitulating to those extent it has made it an issue?- by not capitulating to those people did not want change to happen. when mark see you saw residing at that point as capitulation rather than making a stand? yes. the point as capitulation rather than making a stand? yes.— point as capitulation rather than making a stand? yes. the role of the revious making a stand? yes. the role of the previous chairman, _ making a stand? yes. the role of the previous chairman, as _ making a stand? yes. the role of the previous chairman, as i _ making a stand? yes. the role of the previous chairman, as i understand l previous chairman, as i understand he was _ previous chairman, as i understand he was wanting _ previous chairman, as i understand he was wanting to _ previous chairman, as i understand he was wanting to take _ previous chairman, as i understand he was wanting to take back - previous chairman, as i understand he was wanting to take back over. he was wanting to take back over effectively — he was wanting to take back over effectively his— he was wanting to take back over effectively his position _ he was wanting to take back over effectively his position so - he was wanting to take back over effectively his position so what . he was wanting to take back over effectively his position so what is sure few— effectively his position so what is sure few of— effectively his position so what is sure few of his _ effectively his position so what is sure few of his part _ effectively his position so what is sure few of his part in _ effectively his position so what is sure few of his part in all- effectively his position so what is sure few of his part in all this? i sure few of his part in all this? you're — sure few of his part in all this? you're referring _ sure few of his part in all this? you're referring to _ sure few of his part in all this? you're referring to mr - sure few of his part in all this? you're referring to mr graves? sure few of his part in all this? - you're referring to mr graves? one of my difficulties as chair as i can't remove a director from the board without the consent of the colin graves trust and i spoke to his trustees and personal occasions and a couple of meetings and it was made clear to me they were supportive of people in the club that i felt were partly to blame. which people?— that i felt were partly to blame. which people? some of the senior management- _ which people? some of the senior management. so _ which people? some of the senior management. so mr— which people? some of the senior management. so mr arthurs - which people? some of the senior management. so mr arthurs and l which people? some of the senior. management. so mr arthurs and mr moxon were — management. so mr arthurs and mr moxon were supported _ management. so mr arthurs and mr moxon were supported by _ management. so mr arthurs and mr moxon were supported by the - management. so mr arthurs and mr moxon were supported by the colin| moxon were supported by the colin graves _ moxon were supported by the colin graves trust? — moxon were supported by the colin graves trust? yellow— moxon were supported by the colin graves trust? yellow yes. - moxon were supported by the colin graves trust? yellow yes. and - moxon were supported by the colin graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. | moxon were supported by the colini graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe _ graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that — graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that a — graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that a number— graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that a number of— graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that a number of people - graves trust? yellow yes. and hr. i believe that a number of people in i believe that a number of people in the opposition— believe that a number of people in the opposition who _ believe that a number of people in the opposition who ultimately - believe that a number of people in. the opposition who ultimately affect the opposition who ultimately affect the culture — the opposition who ultimately affect the culture negatively. _ the opposition who ultimately affect the culture negatively. not- the opposition who ultimately affect the culture negatively. not quite - the culture negatively. not quite clear— the culture negatively. not quite clear enough. _ the culture negatively. not quite clear enough, mr— the culture negatively. not quite clear enough, mr hutton. - the culture negatively. not quite clear enough, mr hutton. who. the culture negatively. not quite i clear enough, mr hutton. who did the culture negatively. not quite - clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to— clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove — clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove and _ clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove and what _ clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove and what of— clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove and what of the - clear enough, mr hutton. who did you want to remove and what of the colinl want to remove and what of the colin graves _ want to remove and what of the colin graves trust — want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say _ want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say to _ want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say to you? _ want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say to you? on - want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say to you? on a - want to remove and what of the colin graves trust say to you? on a would i graves trust say to you? on a would have _ graves trust say to you? on a would have liked _ graves trust say to you? on a would have liked to — graves trust say to you? on a would have liked to have _ graves trust say to you? on a would have liked to have removed - graves trust say to you? on a would have liked to have removed mark. have liked to have removed mark arthur— have liked to have removed mark arthur and — have liked to have removed mark arthur and ultimately— have liked to have removed mark arthur and ultimately martyn - have liked to have removed mark- arthur and ultimately martyn moxon, not because — arthur and ultimately martyn moxon, not because of— arthur and ultimately martyn moxon, not because of the _ arthur and ultimately martyn moxon, not because of the conduct— arthur and ultimately martyn moxon, not because of the conduct referred i not because of the conduct referred to in the _ not because of the conduct referred to in the report _ not because of the conduct referred to in the report but _ not because of the conduct referred to in the report but actually - not because of the conduct referred to in the report but actually as - not because of the conduct referred to in the report but actually as a - to in the report but actually as a consequence _ to in the report but actually as a consequence of— to in the report but actually as a consequence of their— to in the report but actually as a consequence of their failure - to in the report but actually as a consequence of their failure to i consequence of their failure to understand _ consequence of their failure to understand the _ consequence of their failure to understand the gravity- consequence of their failure to understand the gravity of- consequence of their failure to understand the gravity of the i understand the gravity of the situation, _ understand the gravity of the situation, the _ understand the gravity of the situation, the failure - understand the gravity of the situation, the failure to - understand the gravity of the - situation, the failure to apologise and particularly— situation, the failure to apologise and particularly for— situation, the failure to apologise and particularly for their- situation, the failure to apologise and particularly for their failure i and particularly for their failure to move — and particularly for their failure to move on _ and particularly for their failure to move on the _ and particularly for their failure i to move on the recommendations and particularly for their failure - to move on the recommendations of the panel _ to move on the recommendations of the panel for— to move on the recommendations of the anel. ., ., ~' to move on the recommendations of the anel. ., ., ~ ., the panel. for me i would like to have removed _ the panel. for me i would like to have removed those _ the panel. for me i would like to have removed those two - the panel. for me i would like toj have removed those two people. the panel. for me i would like to - have removed those two people. i'm not an executive chairman. i also thought the head of hr should also be removed. but thought the head of hr should also be removed-— be removed. but they were individuals _ be removed. but they were individuals who _ be removed. but they were individuals who sat - be removed. but they were individuals who sat on - be removed. but they were individuals who sat on a - be removed. but they were | individuals who sat on a bus be removed. but they were - individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of— individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their— individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their players _ individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their players refer— individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their players refer to - individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their players refer to as - individuals who sat on a bus hitting one of their players refer to as a i one of their players refer to as a pig _ one of their players refer to as a pig and — one of their players refer to as a pig and then _ one of their players refer to as a pig. and then the _ one of their players refer to as a pig. and then the do _ one of their players refer to as a pig. and then the do nothing - one of their players refer to as a i pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly. — pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly. i— pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly, i would _ pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly, iwould be _ pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly, i would be staggered . pig. and then the do nothing about it. frankly, iwould be staggered if| it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was— it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was a — it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was a situation _ it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was a situation that _ it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was a situation that came - it. frankly, iwould be staggered if that was a situation that came to l that was a situation that came to li-ht that was a situation that came to light and — that was a situation that came to light and i— that was a situation that came to light and l was— that was a situation that came to light and i was chair— that was a situation that came to light and i was chair that - that was a situation that came to light and i was chair that i - that was a situation that came to light and i was chair that i would | light and i was chair that i would not want — light and i was chair that i would not want to— light and i was chair that i would not want to remove _ light and i was chair that i would not want to remove them - light and i was chair that i would not want to remove them for- light and i was chair that i would i not want to remove them for that reason _ not want to remove them for that reason alone _ not want to remove them for that reason alone as _ not want to remove them for that reason alone as well _ not want to remove them for that reason alone as well as _ not want to remove them for that reason alone as well as not - reason alone as well as not understanding _ reason alone as well as not understanding the - reason alone as well as not understanding the pr- reason alone as well as not i understanding the pr around reason alone as well as not - understanding the pr around the reason alone as well as not _ understanding the pr around the sole shambles _ understanding the pr around the sole shambles l— understanding the pr around the sole shambles. u. understanding the pr around the sole shambles. ., , ,. , ., understanding the pr around the sole shambles. ., , ,. , shambles. i can only describe to you the reasons — shambles. i can only describe to you the reasons why _ shambles. i can only describe to you the reasons why thought _ shambles. i can only describe to you the reasons why thought they - shambles. i can only describe to you | the reasons why thought they should be removed from the club because essentially they didn't realise the gravity of the situation, the changes that should be made and that azeem was a victim. i am changes that should be made and that azeem was a victim.— azeem was a victim. i am interested in the colin — azeem was a victim. i am interested in the colin graves _ azeem was a victim. i am interested in the colin graves trust. _ azeem was a victim. i am interested in the colin graves trust. they - azeem was a victim. i am interested in the colin graves trust. they had i in the colin graves trust. they had money— in the colin graves trust. they had money and — in the colin graves trust. they had money and yorkshire _ in the colin graves trust. they had money and yorkshire doesn't - in the colin graves trust. they had money and yorkshire doesn't have money— money and yorkshire doesn't have money so — money and yorkshire doesn't have money so they— money and yorkshire doesn't have money so they have _ money and yorkshire doesn't have money so they have the _ money and yorkshire doesn't have money so they have the money i money and yorkshire doesn't have - money so they have the money people. what they— money so they have the money people. what they say _ money so they have the money people. what they say goes _ money so they have the money people. what they say goes. that _ money so they have the money people. what they say goes. that bell— money so they have the money people. what they say goes. that bell will- what they say goes. that bell will hopefully — what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end _ what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end of _ what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end of the _ what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end of the second. - what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end of the second. as l what they say goes. that bell will hopefully end of the second. as if by magic — we also cannot survive without money from the congreve trust and yet here they are as a trust preventing you as a new chair moving out, moxon, arthur and the hr directors who are the people who, frankly, our bang to rights as far as this goes. the the people who, frankly, our bang to rights as far as this goes.— rights as far as this goes. the club owes a substantial _ rights as far as this goes. the club owes a substantial amount - rights as far as this goes. the club owes a substantial amount to - rights as far as this goes. the club owes a substantial amount to the | owes a substantial amount to the congreve trust. i have not been involved in the history of the club. i imagine without them the club would be in terrible difficulties. and historically the club would be indebted to the congreve trust. and i think on balance it is wrong that a major creditor of that level has the keys to decisions that are brought. the keys to decisions that are brouuht. ., ., , . the keys to decisions that are brouuht. ., . . . the keys to decisions that are brourht, ., ., , ., . ., brought. how does that change? that is sim -l a brought. how does that change? that is simply a negotiation _ brought. how does that change? that is simply a negotiation between - brought. how does that change? that is simply a negotiation between the i is simply a negotiation between the club and the trust or a refinancing of the debt. club and the trust or a refinancing of the debt-— club and the trust or a refinancing of the debt. could you please step forward for — of the debt. could you please step forward for us, _ of the debt. could you please step forward for us, thank _ of the debt. could you please step forward for us, thank you? - of the debt. could you please step forward for us, thank you? i - of the debt. could you please step forward for us, thank you? i have | forward for us, thank you? i have liked _ forward for us, thank you? i have liked a _ forward for us, thank you? i have liked a host — forward for us, thank you? i have liked a host of _ forward for us, thank you? i have liked a host of the _ forward for us, thank you? i have liked a host of the game - forward for us, thank you? i have liked a host of the game show, . forward for us, thank you? i have - liked a host of the game show, come on down _ liked a host of the game show, come on down i_ liked a host of the game show, come on down i know— liked a host of the game show, come on down. i know that _ liked a host of the game show, come on down. i know that you _ liked a host of the game show, come on down. i know that you cannot - liked a host of the game show, come on down. i know that you cannot talk| on down. i know that you cannot talk about _ on down. i know that you cannot talk about the _ on down. i know that you cannot talk about the investigation _ on down. i know that you cannot talk about the investigation that - on down. i know that you cannot talk about the investigation that is - about the investigation that is ongoing. _ about the investigation that is ongoing. but— about the investigation that is ongoing. but we _ about the investigation that is ongoing, but we have - about the investigation that is ongoing, but we have just - about the investigation that is . ongoing, but we have just heard about the investigation that is - ongoing, but we have just heard a really— ongoing, but we have just heard a really interesting _ ongoing, but we have just heard a really interesting point _ ongoing, but we have just heard a really interesting point about - ongoing, but we have just heard a really interesting point about the| really interesting point about the fact that — really interesting point about the fact that the _ really interesting point about the fact that the congrave _ really interesting point about the fact that the congrave trust - really interesting point about the fact that the congrave trust hasl fact that the congrave trust has effectively — fact that the congrave trust has effectively a _ fact that the congrave trust has effectively a veto _ fact that the congrave trust has effectively a veto blocking - fact that the congrave trust has effectively a veto blocking any i effectively a veto blocking any moves — effectively a veto blocking any moves that _ effectively a veto blocking any moves that you _ effectively a veto blocking any moves that you do _ effectively a veto blocking any moves that you do in - effectively a veto blocking any moves that you do in terms i effectively a veto blocking any moves that you do in terms of effectively a veto blocking any - moves that you do in terms of the board, _ moves that you do in terms of the board, how— moves that you do in terms of the board, how do _ moves that you do in terms of the board, how do you _ moves that you do in terms of the board, how do you change - moves that you do in terms of the board, how do you change that. moves that you do in terms of the board, how do you change that 'si moves that you do in terms of the - board, how do you change that 's how do you _ board, how do you change that 's how do you get— board, how do you change that 's how do you get this — board, how do you change that 's how do you get this quite _ board, how do you change that 's how do you get this quite frankly- do you get this quite frankly failing — do you get this quite frankly failing outlook, _ do you get this quite frankly failing outlook, if— do you get this quite frankly failing outlook, if you - do you get this quite frankly failing outlook, if you like, i do you get this quite frankly. failing outlook, if you like, of do you get this quite frankly- failing outlook, if you like, of the congrave — failing outlook, if you like, of the congrave trust _ failing outlook, if you like, of the congrave trust that _ failing outlook, if you like, of the congrave trust that has - failing outlook, if you like, of the| congrave trust that has prevented failing outlook, if you like, of the - congrave trust that has prevented mr hutton _ congrave trust that has prevented mr hutton from _ congrave trust that has prevented mr hutton from dispensing _ congrave trust that has prevented mr hutton from dispensing with - congrave trust that has prevented mr hutton from dispensing with mr- congrave trust that has prevented mri hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr— hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mrarthun — hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mrarthur. how— hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr arthur. how do _ hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr arthur. how do you _ hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr arthur. how do you get - hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr arthur. how do you get a - hutton from dispensing with mr moxon and mr arthur. how do you get a grip. and mr arthur. how do you get a grip on this? _ and mr arthur. how do you get a grip on this? l— and mr arthur. how do you get a grip on this? ., �* ~' and mr arthur. how do you get a grip on this? ., �* ~ ., ., on this? i don't think for one second that _ on this? i don't think for one second that i _ on this? i don't think for one second that i would - on this? i don't think for one second that i would be - on this? i don't think for one second that i would be sat i on this? i don't think for one - second that i would be sat there, second that i would he sat there, having gone through a proper process of any kind that is transparent and legal for someone to say to me you can't do that without giving me absolute concrete evidence on a legal basis or other, why i can't, as chair, and if that happened, i wouldn't accept it. that was the only option. wouldn't accept it. that was the only option-— wouldn't accept it. that was the onl otion. . �* only option. what i'm saying to you is, that is only option. what i'm saying to you is. that is the _ only option. what i'm saying to you is, that is the only _ only option. what i'm saying to you is, that is the only nuclear - only option. what i'm saying to you is, that is the only nuclear option i is, that is the only nuclear option you would — is, that is the only nuclear option you would have, _ is, that is the only nuclear option you would have, you _ is, that is the only nuclear option you would have, you have - is, that is the only nuclear option you would have, you have the - you would have, you have the congrave _ you would have, you have the congrave trust, _ you would have, you have the congrave trust, which - you would have, you have the congrave trust, which has- you would have, you have the congrave trust, which has a i congrave trust, which has a financial— congrave trust, which has a financial interest _ congrave trust, which has a financial interest in - congrave trust, which has a i financial interest in yorkshire, basically— financial interest in yorkshire, basically holds _ financial interest in yorkshire, basically holds the _ financial interest in yorkshire, basically holds the board - financial interest in yorkshire, basically holds the board and| financial interest in yorkshire, i basically holds the board and the palm _ basically holds the board and the palm of— basically holds the board and the palm of its— basically holds the board and the palm of its hand, _ basically holds the board and the palm of its hand, and _ basically holds the board and the palm of its hand, and that- basically holds the board and the| palm of its hand, and that seems basically holds the board and the i palm of its hand, and that seems to be a desperately_ palm of its hand, and that seems to be a desperately unhealthy- be a desperately unhealthy relationship. _ be a desperately unhealthy relationship.— be a desperately unhealthy relationshi. �* ., , ., ., relationship. i've only met one of the trustees _ relationship. i've only met one of the trustees a _ relationship. i've only met one of the trustees a couple _ relationship. i've only met one of the trustees a couple of- relationship. i've only met one of the trustees a couple of times. i | the trustees a couple of times. i have found the person to be very receptive, very reasonable, but understanding. that is my experience from meetings. my understanding is that she along with another trustee would not be held to account for a... �* , ,, would not be held to account for a- - -_ you _ would not be held to account for a. . ._ you made - would not be held to account for a..._ you made a i would not be held to account for- a. . ._ you made a decision a... bell rings. you made a decision in 2021 which — a... bell rings. you made a decision in 2021 which affected _ a... bell rings. you made a decision in 2021 which affected my _ a... bell rings. you made a decision in 2021 which affected my finances i in 2021 which affected my finances 50 years on, sol in 2021 which affected my finances 50 years on, so i think they would be very careful about the decisions they make. my position is, that and individual is bringing the game or the club into disrepute and the evidence is there.— the club into disrepute and the evidence is there. ~ ., . . ,, evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and _ evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and mr _ evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and mr arthur? _ evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and mr arthur? if - evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and mr arthur? if i - evidence is there. would have sacked mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was i mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was there and the _ mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was there and the evidence _ mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was there and the evidence was - mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was there and the evidence was such, | mr moxon and mr arthur? if i was i there and the evidence was such, it is difficult for me to look... but it is anybody who was bringing that club into disrepute, in a way that has been clearly evident this morning. as chair, you have a responsibility, and i would have taken that responsibility, and just my initial interactions with the person from the trust, they are completely independent, looking at the finances and the way forward, making sure that the finances were well guarded and looked after, and thatis well guarded and looked after, and that is really important. i will well guarded and looked after, and that is really important.— that is really important. i will ask ou to that is really important. i will ask you to stay _ that is really important. i will ask you to stay in _ that is really important. i will ask you to stay in place _ that is really important. i will ask you to stay in place of _ that is really important. i will ask you to stay in place of that - that is really important. i will ask you to stay in place of that is - that is really important. i will ask you to stay in place of that is 0k| you to stay in place of that is ok but we _ you to stay in place of that is ok but we do — you to stay in place of that is ok but we do appreciate _ you to stay in place of that is ok but we do appreciate that - you to stay in place of that is ok but we do appreciate that you i but we do appreciate that you cannot talk about _ but we do appreciate that you cannot talk about the — but we do appreciate that you cannot talk about the current _ but we do appreciate that you cannot talk about the current inquiry. - talk about the current inquiry. roger, — talk about the current inquiry. roger, why— talk about the current inquiry. roger, why didn't _ talk about the current inquiry. roger, why didn't you - talk about the current inquiry. roger, why didn't you sack i talk about the current inquiry. - roger, why didn't you sack any of the players — roger, why didn't you sack any of the players who— roger, why didn't you sack any of the players who were _ roger, why didn't you sack any of the players who were involved - roger, why didn't you sack any of the players who were involved ini the players who were involved in this race — the players who were involved in this race is? _ the players who were involved in this race is?— this race is? the answer is that i had no executive _ this race is? the answer is that i had no executive authority - this race is? the answer is that i had no executive authority or i had no executive authority or responsibility in my role. if you are specifically talking about gary ballance, — are specifically talking about gary ballance, the obvious person named in the _ ballance, the obvious person named in the report for using the p word, i in the report for using the p word, lwasn't _ in the report for using the p word, i wasn't involved in the investigation or disciplinary is. you _ investigation or disciplinary is. you will— investigation or disciplinary is. you will have seen the rather complex _ you will have seen the rather complex and convoluted description of the _ complex and convoluted description of the actions he took and the legal opinion— of the actions he took and the legal opinion in— of the actions he took and the legal opinion in the report by the panel, so i opinion in the report by the panel, so i need — opinion in the report by the panel, so i need to— opinion in the report by the panel, so i need to be clear, it was the panel— so i need to be clear, it was the panel who — so i need to be clear, it was the panel who made that point, where they concluded he had not racially harassedm — they concluded he had not racially harassed... that calling someone a zimba _ harassed... that calling someone a zimba is _ harassed... that calling someone a zimba is the — harassed... that calling someone a zimba is the same as calling someone a p. generally, words fail me. why didn't— a p. generally, words fail me. why didn't words— a p. generally, words fail me. why didn't words fail you? why didn't you say— didn't words fail you? why didn't you say that this employee of ours is use _ you say that this employee of ours is use the — you say that this employee of ours is use the p— you say that this employee of ours is use the p word to another employee and has seems to have done it persistently they need to go and they need — it persistently they need to go and they need to go now? i did not have an executive — they need to go now? i did not have an executive role in this but the reality— an executive role in this but the reality is— an executive role in this but the reality is the club also took advice from _ reality is the club also took advice from lawyers, different lawyers, who said that _ from lawyers, different lawyers, who said that whilst there was a clear educational and training need for gary ballance there was not a cause to bring _ gary ballance there was not a cause to bring disciplinary action. there are many— to bring disciplinary action. there are many recommendations... you were chair at _ are many recommendations... you were chair at the _ are many recommendations... you were chairat the time. are many recommendations... you were chair at the time. there were a host of recommendations that have not been _ of recommendations that have not been put _ of recommendations that have not been put in place as yet.— been put in place as yet. there is some latitude _ been put in place as yet. there is some latitude to _ been put in place as yet. there is some latitude to be _ been put in place as yet. there is some latitude to be had - been put in place as yet. there is some latitude to be had with - been put in place as yet. there is some latitude to be had with the| some latitude to be had with the fact that this was in 2020, but it is very clear, a player calling another player a p, and they talk about education and training as recommended by the lawyers, i find it staggering that you did not follow through on that. did you talk to moxon and arthur, was it so toxic in the yorkshire boardroom that this kind of thing wasn't discussed? it kind of thing wasn't discussed? it wasn't so toxic but it was hard to -et wasn't so toxic but it was hard to get them — wasn't so toxic but it was hard to get them to do any of the things you wanted _ get them to do any of the things you wanted to— get them to do any of the things you wanted to do. from the 17th of august— wanted to do. from the 17th of august until i resigned over a series— august until i resigned over a series of— august until i resigned over a series of board meetings when the repeatedly asked the executive, house _ repeatedly asked the executive, house of— repeatedly asked the executive, house of e—mails and calls, saying please _ house of e—mails and calls, saying please can— house of e—mails and calls, saying please can you follow through on this and — please can you follow through on this and they would not do it. damian— this and they would not do it. damian green?— this and they would not do it. damian green? .. ., this and they would not do it. damian green? .. . , damian green? the fact that there is nobody from — damian green? the fact that there is nobody from the _ damian green? the fact that there is nobody from the executive _ damian green? the fact that there is nobody from the executive either i nobody from the executive either past or— nobody from the executive either past or present _ nobody from the executive either past or present here _ nobody from the executive either past or present here with - nobody from the executive either past or present here with us - nobody from the executive either i past or present here with us today, and hearing — past or present here with us today, and hearing what _ past or present here with us today, and hearing what you _ past or present here with us today, and hearing what you are _ past or present here with us today, i and hearing what you are describing, board _ and hearing what you are describing, board meetings— and hearing what you are describing, board meetings where _ and hearing what you are describing, board meetings where they - and hearing what you are describing, board meetings where theyjust - board meetings where theyjust ignore — board meetings where theyjust ignore you. _ board meetings where theyjust ignore you. and _ board meetings where theyjust ignore you, and presumably- board meetings where theyjust i ignore you, and presumably there were _ ignore you, and presumably there were other— ignore you, and presumably there were other forces _ ignore you, and presumably there were other forces of _ ignore you, and presumably there were other forces of light - ignore you, and presumably there were other forces of light on - ignore you, and presumably there were other forces of light on the i were other forces of light on the board, _ were other forces of light on the board, makes— were other forces of light on the board, makes me _ were other forces of light on the board, makes me worried - were other forces of light on the board, makes me worried aboutj were other forces of light on the - board, makes me worried about the future _ board, makes me worried about the future of— board, makes me worried about the future of yorkshire _ board, makes me worried about the future of yorkshire county— board, makes me worried about the future of yorkshire county cricket i future of yorkshire county cricket club _ future of yorkshire county cricket club is _ future of yorkshire county cricket club is there— future of yorkshire county cricket club. is there anybody— future of yorkshire county cricket club. is there anybody working i future of yorkshire county cricket i club. is there anybody working there capable _ club. is there anybody working there capable of— club. is there anybody working there capable of grasping _ club. is there anybody working there capable of grasping this _ club. is there anybody working there capable of grasping this nettle? - club. is there anybody working there capable of grasping this nettle? [- capable of grasping this nettle? i have capable of grasping this nettle? have to say a couple of things, capable of grasping this nettle?|. have to say a couple of things, only started _ have to say a couple of things, only started my— have to say a couple of things, only started my role in covid times at it only been— started my role in covid times at it only been to the club a small number of times— only been to the club a small number of times so— only been to the club a small number of times so when you see the letter signed _ of times so when you see the letter signed by— of times so when you see the letter signed by about 13 people saying what they said in that letter, i actually — what they said in that letter, i actually hadn't met most of those people _ actually hadn't met most of those people and wouldn't be able to recognise most of those people. so it is hard _ recognise most of those people. so it is hard for— recognise most of those people. so it is hard for me to evaluate the personalities of all of them. we are with the culture _ personalities of all of them. we are with the culture and _ personalities of all of them. we are with the culture and sport - personalities of all of them. we are i with the culture and sport committee hearing evidence from roger hutton, the former chair of yorkshire county cricket club. he has beenjoined in the front row to take questions from mps by lord patel, who took over from him. and just to say that some of the language being used in this hearing, you may find offensive, so we do apologise for that. but of course it is part of what we are hearing, which is what azeem rafiq encountered as he was at yorker, in terms of racism and how that is being closely scrutinised particularly by this committee this morning so we will continue to listen in. . . , , listen in. that the ceo has resigned but that will — listen in. that the ceo has resigned but that will not _ listen in. that the ceo has resigned but that will not change _ listen in. that the ceo has resigned but that will not change the - listen in. that the ceo has resigned but that will not change the culture | but that will not change the culture of itself _ but that will not change the culture of itself. thirdly, there are an enormous _ of itself. thirdly, there are an enormous number of positive recommendations made by that panel, that as _ recommendations made by that panel, that as of— recommendations made by that panel, that as of the date i resigned there was no _ that as of the date i resigned there was no strategy for them to be done, and they— was no strategy for them to be done, and they also need to be done so i am hopeful— and they also need to be done so i am hopeful and optimistic that what we're _ am hopeful and optimistic that what we're talking about that these things— we're talking about that these things happen, but in the meantime... things happen, but in the meantime. . ._ things happen, but in the meantime... . ., ., . meantime... that a small lord patel, and we are — meantime... that a small lord patel, and we are hearing _ meantime... that a small lord patel, and we are hearing that _ meantime... that a small lord patel, and we are hearing that the _ meantime... that a small lord patel, and we are hearing that the german i and we are hearing that the german can be _ and we are hearing that the german can be as _ and we are hearing that the german can be as well—intentioned - and we are hearing that the german can be as well—intentioned as - can be as well—intentioned as possible _ can be as well—intentioned as possible but— can be as well—intentioned as possible but actually- can be as well—intentioned as possible but actually it - can be as well—intentioned as possible but actually it is - can be as well—intentioned as i possible but actually it is really implement _ possible but actually it is really implement basque _ possible but actually it is really implement basque —— - possible but actually it is really implement basque —— difficulti possible but actually it is really. implement basque —— difficult to implement— implement basque —— difficult to implement the— implement basque —— difficult to implement the decisions - implement basque —— difficult to implement the decisions that i implement basque —— difficult to. implement the decisions that have been taken — implement the decisions that have been taken and _ implement the decisions that have been taken and that _ implement the decisions that have been taken and that changing - implement the decisions that have been taken and that changing the| been taken and that changing the culture _ been taken and that changing the culture is— been taken and that changing the culture is not— been taken and that changing the culture is notjust _ been taken and that changing the culture is not just a _ been taken and that changing the culture is notjust a case - been taken and that changing the culture is notjust a case of- culture is notjust a case of replacing _ culture is notjust a case of replacing the _ culture is notjust a case of replacing the ceo, - culture is notjust a case of replacing the ceo, there i culture is notjust a case of| replacing the ceo, there is, culture is notjust a case of. replacing the ceo, there is, a culture is notjust a case of- replacing the ceo, there is, a lot to be _ replacing the ceo, there is, a lot to be cleaned _ replacing the ceo, there is, a lot to be cleaned out— replacing the ceo, there is, a lot to be cleaned out there. - replacing the ceo, there is, a lot to be cleaned out there. as- to be cleaned out there. as chairman. _ to be cleaned out there. as chairman, do— to be cleaned out there. as chairman, do you _ to be cleaned out there. as chairman, do you feel- to be cleaned out there. as chairman, do you feel thati to be cleaned out there. as. chairman, do you feel that you to be cleaned out there. as- chairman, do you feel that you have the power— chairman, do you feel that you have the power and — chairman, do you feel that you have the power and authority— chairman, do you feel that you have the power and authority to - chairman, do you feel that you have the power and authority to do - chairman, do you feel that you have the power and authority to do that? j the power and authority to do that? ifeel— the power and authority to do that? i feel like _ the power and authority to do that? i feel like we — the power and authority to do that? i feel like we have _ the power and authority to do that? i feel like we have been _ the power and authority to do that? i feel like we have been here - i feel like we have been here before, — i feel like we have been here before, and it is how you implement it. it before, and it is how you implement it it is _ before, and it is how you implement it it is very— before, and it is how you implement it. it is very difficult, and roger was right, — it. it is very difficult, and roger was right, it was in the pandemic, so i was right, it was in the pandemic, so i would — was right, it was in the pandemic, so i would be going in, every day, to see _ so i would be going in, every day, to see individuals, and yes, this is about— to see individuals, and yes, this is about culture. there is no question about— about culture. there is no question about culture. there is no question about culture. it is about other clubs. — about culture. it is about other clubs, picket, it is about a culture change _ clubs, picket, it is about a culture change. what i have seen is a combination of things. i am very early— combination of things. i am very early days— combination of things. i am very early days into my ten year. but 'ust early days into my ten year. but just in _ early days into my ten year. but just in terms of the feeling of talking — just in terms of the feeling of talking to the people that you see, denial, _ talking to the people that you see, denial, absolutely. you see phenomenally hard—working people who have given _ phenomenally hard—working people who have given their lives to the club. you see _ have given their lives to the club. you see people who are terrified, scared, _ you see people who are terrified, scared, in— you see people who are terrified, scared, in the headlights, mentally, completely stressed not just for themselves but their families, their children _ themselves but their families, their children. you see a lot of sadness. and i_ children. you see a lot of sadness. and i think— children. you see a lot of sadness. and i think we are all going to have to go— and i think we are all going to have to go on— and i think we are all going to have to go on a — and i think we are all going to have to go on a journey to change that. i am going _ to go on a journey to change that. i am going to — to go on a journey to change that. i am going to have to be a very active chairman _ am going to have to be a very active chairman i— am going to have to be a very active chairman. i will have to play a leadership— chairman. i will have to play a leadership role at the moment. we haven't_ leadership role at the moment. we haven't got— leadership role at the moment. we haven't got leadership there. as someone — haven't got leadership there. as someone who stood up to help, to keep— someone who stood up to help, to keep things going, but, this is an organisation that has been hammered, left, right— organisation that has been hammered, left, right and centre, mainly for the right— left, right and centre, mainly for the right reasons, but there are individuals— the right reasons, but there are individuals at the heart of it and 'ust individuals at the heart of it and just like — individuals at the heart of it and just like aseem, the hurt that he has gone — just like aseem, the hurt that he has gone through, there are some people _ has gone through, there are some people going through hurt as well, but changes are going to have to be made _ but changes are going to have to be made but— but changes are going to have to be made. but we have got to move on it really— made. but we have got to move on it really quickly, and hard, and i am prepared — really quickly, and hard, and i am prepared to — really quickly, and hard, and i am prepared to take whatever decisions i prepared to take whatever decisions i need _ prepared to take whatever decisions i need to— prepared to take whatever decisions i need to take to move this forward, because _ i need to take to move this forward, because there are too many young people _ because there are too many young people suffering at the moment, and staff who _ people suffering at the moment, and staff who are suffering. one people suffering at the moment, and staff who are suffering.— staff who are suffering. one of the thins i staff who are suffering. one of the things i find _ staff who are suffering. one of the things i find it _ staff who are suffering. one of the things i find it puzzling, _ staff who are suffering. one of the things i find it puzzling, i - staff who are suffering. one of the things i find it puzzling, i find - staff who are suffering. one of the things i find it puzzling, i find it i things i find it puzzling, i find it deeply— things i find it puzzling, i find it deeply puzzling _ things i find it puzzling, i find it deeply puzzling how— things i find it puzzling, i find it deeply puzzling how anyone - things i find it puzzling, i find it i deeply puzzling how anyone could things i find it puzzling, i find it - deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket _ deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket lover— deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket lover and _ deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket lover and a _ deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket lover and a racist, - deeply puzzling how anyone could be a cricket lover and a racist, you - a cricket lover and a racist, you only— a cricket lover and a racist, you only have — a cricket lover and a racist, you only have to _ a cricket lover and a racist, you only have to look— a cricket lover and a racist, you only have to look around - a cricket lover and a racist, you only have to look around the i a cricket lover and a racist, you . only have to look around the world and it _ only have to look around the world and it is_ only have to look around the world and it is obvious _ only have to look around the world and it is obvious that _ only have to look around the world and it is obvious that these - and it is obvious that these skills are sort— and it is obvious that these skills are sort of— and it is obvious that these skills are sort of shared _ and it is obvious that these skills are sort of shared and _ and it is obvious that these skills| are sort of shared and distributed fairly. _ are sort of shared and distributed fairly. as — are sort of shared and distributed fairly. as it— are sort of shared and distributed fairly, as it were, _ are sort of shared and distributed fairly, as it were, but _ are sort of shared and distributed fairly, as it were, but one - are sort of shared and distributed fairly, as it were, but one of- are sort of shared and distributed fairly, as it were, but one of the. fairly, as it were, but one of the things— fairly, as it were, but one of the things that _ fairly, as it were, but one of the things that we _ fairly, as it were, but one of the things that we have _ fairly, as it were, but one of the things that we have heard - fairly, as it were, but one of the things that we have heard this l things that we have heard this morning — things that we have heard this morning that _ things that we have heard this morning that i _ things that we have heard this morning that i have _ things that we have heard this morning that i have found - things that we have heard this. morning that i have found most things that we have heard this - morning that i have found most odd from the _ morning that i have found most odd from the point — morning that i have found most odd from the point of _ morning that i have found most odd from the point of view _ morning that i have found most odd from the point of view of _ morning that i have found most odd from the point of view of a - morning that i have found most odd from the point of view of a sporting | from the point of view of a sporting club who— from the point of view of a sporting club who are — from the point of view of a sporting club who are in _ from the point of view of a sporting club who are in the _ from the point of view of a sporting club who are in the end _ from the point of view of a sporting club who are in the end measured i from the point of view of a sporting i club who are in the end measured by sporting _ club who are in the end measured by sporting success, _ club who are in the end measured by sporting success, was— club who are in the end measured by sporting success, was to _ club who are in the end measured by sporting success, was to say - club who are in the end measured by sporting success, was to say take - club who are in the end measured by sporting success, was to say take a i sporting success, was to say take a few of— sporting success, was to say take a few of those — sporting success, was to say take a few of those asian _ sporting success, was to say take a few of those asian players - sporting success, was to say take a few of those asian players but - sporting success, was to say take a few of those asian players but noti few of those asian players but not too many — few of those asian players but not too many of — few of those asian players but not too many of them. _ few of those asian players but not too many of them. surely, - few of those asian players but not too many of them. surely, pick. few of those asian players but not . too many of them. surely, pick your best players — too many of them. surely, pick your best players. and _ too many of them. surely, pick your best players. and is— too many of them. surely, pick your best players. and is that _ too many of them. surely, pick your best players. and is that a - too many of them. surely, pick your best players. and is that a fair- best players. and is that a fair representation— best players. and is that a fair representation of— best players. and is that a fair representation of what - best players. and is that a fair representation of what went . best players. and is that a fairl representation of what went on best players. and is that a fair- representation of what went on at yorkshire — representation of what went on at yorkshire irr— representation of what went on at yorkshire in the _ representation of what went on at yorkshire in the past _ representation of what went on at yorkshire in the past and - representation of what went on at yorkshire in the past and did - representation of what went on at yorkshire in the past and did you| yorkshire in the past and did you know— yorkshire in the past and did you know about _ yorkshire in the past and did you know about that _ yorkshire in the past and did you know about that when _ yorkshire in the past and did you know about that when you - yorkshire in the past and did you i know about that when you became chairman _ know about that when you became chairman 's — know about that when you became chairman 's i — know about that when you became chairman '— chairman 's i didn't know that. i was not there _ chairman 's i didn't know that. i was not there during _ chairman 's i didn't know that. i was not there during any - chairman 's i didn't know that. i was not there during any of - chairman 's i didn't know that. i | was not there during any of that beriod~ — was not there during any of that period. that is there for those there — period. that is there for those there to — period. that is there for those there to answer at the time. i have never— there to answer at the time. i have never seen — there to answer at the time. i have never seen or heard anyone say that to me _ never seen or heard anyone say that to me in _ never seen or heard anyone say that to me in my— never seen or heard anyone say that to me in my short tenure. but never seen or heard anyone say that to me in my short tenure.— to me in my short tenure. but you look at it and _ to me in my short tenure. but you look at it and you _ to me in my short tenure. but you look at it and you think... - to me in my short tenure. but you look at it and you think... you - to me in my short tenure. but you | look at it and you think... you have -ot look at it and you think... you have got ati— look at it and you think... you have got all of— look at it and you think... you have got all of these _ look at it and you think... you have got all of these asian _ look at it and you think... you have got all of these asian heritage - got all of these asian heritage players — got all of these asian heritage players in _ got all of these asian heritage players in yorkshire. - got all of these asian heritage players in yorkshire. all, - got all of these asian heritage players in yorkshire. all, very| players in yorkshire. all, very good, — players in yorkshire. all, very good, on _ players in yorkshire. all, very good, on to— players in yorkshire. all, very good, on to the— players in yorkshire. all, very good, up to the age _ players in yorkshire. all, very good, up to the age of- players in yorkshire. all, very good, up to the age of 16. - players in yorkshire. all, very. good, up to the age of 16. none players in yorkshire. all, very- good, up to the age of 16. none of them, _ good, up to the age of 16. none of them, literally— good, up to the age of 16. none of them, literally none _ good, up to the age of 16. none of them, literally none of— good, up to the age of 16. none of them, literally none of them, - good, up to the age of 16. none of them, literally none of them, in. good, up to the age of 16. none of. them, literally none of them, in the yorkshire _ them, literally none of them, in the yorkshire team. _ them, literally none of them, in the yorkshire team. [— them, literally none of them, in the yorkshire team.— yorkshire team. i agree, i am a cricket lover, _ yorkshire team. i agree, i am a cricket lover, at _ yorkshire team. i agree, i am a cricket lover, at heart, - yorkshire team. i agree, i am a cricket lover, at heart, a - yorkshire team. i agree, i am a cricket lover, at heart, a cricket fan _ cricket lover, at heart, a cricket fan when — cricket lover, at heart, a cricket fan. when you drive through the streets — fan. when you drive through the streets of— fan. when you drive through the streets of leeds and bradford what you see _ streets of leeds and bradford what you see is — streets of leeds and bradford what you see is mostly people from a south _ you see is mostly people from a south asian background playing cricket — south asian background playing cricket and that they don't end up in the _ cricket and that they don't end up in the cricket club being stars will yorkshire — in the cricket club being stars will yorkshire county cricket club is ridiculous _ yorkshire county cricket club is ridiculous— yorkshire county cricket club is ridiculous. . . ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody _ ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody ever— ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody ever said _ ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody ever said we - ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody ever said we can - ridiculous. and at the boardroom, has nobody ever said we can do i has nobody ever said we can do better? — has nobody ever said we can do better? . has nobody ever said we can do better? , ., , ,., , better? yes, absolutely, in the short time _ better? yes, absolutely, in the short time that _ better? yes, absolutely, in the short time that i _ better? yes, absolutely, in the short time that i have - better? yes, absolutely, in the short time that i have been - better? yes, absolutely, in the i short time that i have been there, there _ short time that i have been there, there is— short time that i have been there, there is an — short time that i have been there, there is an equality, diversity and inclusion— there is an equality, diversity and inclusion committee for this. there were _ inclusion committee for this. there were a _ inclusion committee for this. there were a number of initiatives that were _ were a number of initiatives that were but— were a number of initiatives that were put forward to improve this. and actually, the club recruited and equality. _ and actually, the club recruited and equality, diversity and inclusion manager, — equality, diversity and inclusion manager, so there were positive steps _ manager, so there were positive steps being taken, so everyone understood that this was what the club needed to change, and it needed to develop— club needed to change, and it needed to develop and improve its accessibility and its reach and probably— accessibility and its reach and probably most importantly, that the south _ probably most importantly, that the south asian community wanted to be at yorkshire — south asian community wanted to be at yorkshire and felt at home in yorkshire — at yorkshire and felt at home in yorkshire which is, sadly, what we hear— yorkshire which is, sadly, what we hear from — yorkshire which is, sadly, what we hear from azeem today is that he does _ hear from azeem today is that he does not — hear from azeem today is that he does not want his children to play cricket _ does not want his children to play cricket. . . . does not want his children to play cricket. . , ., , does not want his children to play cricket. . , . , , . cricket. that is a terrible punch line. cricket. that is a terrible punch line- and _ cricket. that is a terrible punch line- and if _ cricket. that is a terrible punch line. and if that _ cricket. that is a terrible punch line. and if that reflects - cricket. that is a terrible punch line. and if that reflects my - cricket. that is a terrible punch l line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic _ line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic on _ line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic on a _ line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic on a lot _ line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic on a lot of - line. and if that reflects my view that the tragic on a lot of levels. i that the tragic on a lot of levels. and a _ that the tragic on a lot of levels. and a final— that the tragic on a lot of levels. and a final question to go patel, what _ and a final question to go patel, what is — and a final question to go patel, what is one _ and a final question to go patel, what is one of— and a final question to go patel, what is one of the _ and a final question to go patel, what is one of the bits _ and a final question to go patel, what is one of the bits of- and a final question to go patel, what is one of the bits of culture that you — what is one of the bits of culture that you feel— what is one of the bits of culture that you feel that _ what is one of the bits of culture that you feel that you _ what is one of the bits of culture that you feel that you need - what is one of the bits of culture that you feel that you need to i that you feel that you need to change. — that you feel that you need to change. that— that you feel that you need to change, that senior— that you feel that you need to change, that senior players, i that you feel that you need to - change, that senior players, england players. _ change, that senior players, england players. the — change, that senior players, england players. the big _ change, that senior players, england players, the big names _ change, that senior players, england players, the big names in _ change, that senior players, england players, the big names in the - players, the big names in the dressing _ players, the big names in the dressing room, _ players, the big names in the dressing room, that - players, the big names in the dressing room, that they- players, the big names in the - dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed _ dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed to— dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed to set — dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed to set the _ dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed to set the culture, - dressing room, that they mustn't be allowed to set the culture, becausei allowed to set the culture, because that is— allowed to set the culture, because that is one — allowed to set the culture, because that is one of— allowed to set the culture, because that is one of the _ allowed to set the culture, because that is one of the ways _ allowed to set the culture, because that is one of the ways that - allowed to set the culture, because that is one of the ways that we - allowed to set the culture, because| that is one of the ways that we have heard _ that is one of the ways that we have heard this _ that is one of the ways that we have heard this morning _ that is one of the ways that we have heard this morning that _ that is one of the ways that we have heard this morning that it— that is one of the ways that we have heard this morning that it can - that is one of the ways that we have heard this morning that it can get. heard this morning that it can get toxic _ heard this morning that it can get toxic do— heard this morning that it can get toxic do you _ heard this morning that it can get toxic. do you draw _ heard this morning that it can get toxic. do you draw that _ heard this morning that it can get toxic. do you draw that lesson . heard this morning that it can get . toxic. do you draw that lesson from what _ toxic. do you draw that lesson from what we _ toxic. do you draw that lesson from what we have — toxic. do you draw that lesson from what we have heard? _ toxic. do you draw that lesson from what we have heard? [— toxic. do you draw that lesson from what we have heard?— what we have heard? i think there will need to _ what we have heard? i think there will need to be, _ what we have heard? i think there will need to be, not _ what we have heard? i think there will need to be, notjust _ what we have heard? i think there will need to be, notjust players, | will need to be, notjust players, they are — will need to be, notjust players, they are part of the solution, a key part of— they are part of the solution, a key part of the — they are part of the solution, a key part of the solution, they need to be on _ part of the solution, they need to be on that— part of the solution, they need to be on thatjourney part of the solution, they need to be on that journey with us and they need _ be on that journey with us and they need to— be on that journey with us and they need to learn with us, and as azeem said, _ need to learn with us, and as azeem said. you _ need to learn with us, and as azeem said. you get — need to learn with us, and as azeem said, you get in there from the ages of 8-12, _ said, you get in there from the ages of 8-12, you — said, you get in there from the ages of 8—12, you grow up, you watch your heroes— of 8—12, you grow up, you watch your heroes and _ of 8—12, you grow up, you watch your heroes and you emulate what they are doin- heroes and you emulate what they are doing and _ heroes and you emulate what they are doing and they need to come round the table _ doing and they need to come round the table now so that it is notjust about— the table now so that it is notjust about the — the table now so that it is notjust about the senior players but about all of _ about the senior players but about all of the — about the senior players but about all of the players having a say. we talk about — all of the players having a say. we talk about in my road, the health service, — talk about in my road, the health service, talking about service users and patients, do we consult, do we talk to— and patients, do we consult, do we talk to them or do we actually listen — talk to them or do we actually listen and work with them 's so that is what _ listen and work with them 's so that is what i _ listen and work with them 's so that is what i agree, i want a table of skills. _ is what i agree, i want a table of skills. to — is what i agree, i want a table of skills. to be _ is what i agree, i want a table of skills, to be honest and truthful, and you — skills, to be honest and truthful, and you may have heard the question about— and you may have heard the question about women. it is terrible. i have sat in— about women. it is terrible. i have sat in cricket — about women. it is terrible. i have sat in cricket clubs around the place — sat in cricket clubs around the place you _ sat in cricket clubs around the place. you would not let anybody talk about — place. you would not let anybody talk about your mother or your sister— talk about your mother or your sister like _ talk about your mother or your sister like that. but it has been acceptable, it has been done for years _ acceptable, it has been done for years but — acceptable, it has been done for years. but there is an education and awareness _ years. but there is an education and awareness process. i struggle with the idea _ awareness process. i struggle with the idea that any education course that you _ the idea that any education course that you are forced to go on is going — that you are forced to go on is going to — that you are forced to go on is going to change anything. i struggle with the _ going to change anything. i struggle with the idea and i have been there and done _ with the idea and i have been there and done it— with the idea and i have been there and done it of stroke —— employing and done it of stroke —— employing an equality— and done it of stroke —— employing an equality manager because it is his or— an equality manager because it is his or her— an equality manager because it is his or her issue, problem, they should — his or her issue, problem, they should sit— his or her issue, problem, they should sit with the chair and the chief— should sit with the chair and the chief exec, _ should sit with the chair and the chief exec, and if we don't need it, and believe — chief exec, and if we don't need it, and believe it then, then you are on and believe it then, then you are on a hiding _ and believe it then, then you are on a hiding to— and believe it then, then you are on a hiding to nothing.— a hiding to nothing. thank you, chair. a hiding to nothing. thank you, chair- roger. — a hiding to nothing. thank you, chair. roger, were _ a hiding to nothing. thank you, chair. roger, were you - a hiding to nothing. thank you, chair. roger, were you aware l a hiding to nothing. thank you, | chair. roger, were you aware of a hiding to nothing. thank you, - chair. roger, were you aware of the issue of racism at the club before you took the post? i issue of racism at the club before you took the post?— issue of racism at the club before you took the post? i suppose i read the ress. you took the post? i suppose i read the press l — you took the post? i suppose i read the press. i wasn't— you took the post? i suppose i read the press. i wasn't too _ you took the post? i suppose i read the press. i wasn't too aware - you took the post? i suppose i read the press. i wasn't too aware of- you took the post? i suppose i read the press. i wasn't too aware of the the press. iwasn't too aware of the specific— the press. i wasn't too aware of the specific allegations of racism. but i specific allegations of racism. but i knew— specific allegations of racism. but i knew that the club had a history where _ i knew that the club had a history where the — i knew that the club had a history where the question get been asked, so i where the question get been asked, so i am _ where the question get been asked, so i am a _ where the question get been asked, so i am a fan of the club and i was not blind— so i am a fan of the club and i was not blind to— so i am a fan of the club and i was not blind to the questions raised in the past _ not blind to the questions raised in the past. 50 not blind to the questions raised in the ast. , ., not blind to the questions raised in the ast. i- .. not blind to the questions raised in the ast. , ., .. ., not blind to the questions raised in the ast. i. .. ., ,.,, the past. so when you came into post and became — the past. so when you came into post and became aware _ the past. so when you came into post and became aware of— the past. so when you came into post and became aware of these _ the past. so when you came into post and became aware of these issues - the past. so when you came into post| and became aware of these issues was it something that you made a priority in terms of being a thing that you had to tackle? to priority in terms of being a thing that you had to tackle?- priority in terms of being a thing that you had to tackle? to be candid with ou, that you had to tackle? to be candid with you. my — that you had to tackle? to be candid with you. my first — that you had to tackle? to be candid with you, my first desire _ that you had to tackle? to be candid with you, my first desire was - that you had to tackle? to be candid with you, my first desire was to - with you, my first desire was to improve — with you, my first desire was to improve the culture at the club more broadly— improve the culture at the club more broadly rather than in relation to specific— broadly rather than in relation to specific discrimination. how broadly rather than in relation to specific discrimination.— broadly rather than in relation to specific discrimination. how did you no specific discrimination. how did you to about specific discrimination. how did you go about that? _ specific discrimination. how did you go about that? is _ specific discrimination. how did you go about that? is simply _ specific discrimination. how did you go about that? is simply trying - specific discrimination. how did you go about that? is simply trying to i go about that? is simply trying to encuae go about that? is simply trying to engage with _ go about that? is simply trying to engage with the _ go about that? is simply trying to engage with the senior— go about that? is simply trying to | engage with the senior executive, and begin— engage with the senior executive, and begin to understand how them and the club _ and begin to understand how them and the club may change, and i literally only had _ the club may change, and i literally only had probably been involved in two zoom — only had probably been involved in two zoom meetings from my date of appointment to end the azeem press statement _ appointment to end the azeem press statement was made. so when the azeem _ statement was made. so when the azeem press statement was brought to my attention, which was late august, i my attention, which was late august, i spoke _ my attention, which was late august, | spoke to— my attention, which was late august, i spoke to one of the non—executives and resort— i spoke to one of the non—executives and resort as — i spoke to one of the non—executives and resort as a grave duty. how i spoke to one of the non-executives and resort as a grave duty.— and resort as a grave duty. how far does this drown _ and resort as a grave duty. how far does this drown out _ and resort as a grave duty. how far does this drown out individuals - and resort as a grave duty. how far does this drown out individuals at l does this drown out individuals at yorkshire county cricket club 's in my ten year, i have learned that yorkshire has not had much sporting success in the last six years so i don't think it has drowned it out in reality. don't think it has drowned it out in reali . �* . . don't think it has drowned it out in reali .�*, ,., reality. answers your question, the more south — reality. answers your question, the more south asian _ reality. answers your question, the more south asian players - reality. answers your question, the more south asian players that - reality. answers your question, the more south asian players that you | more south asian players that you can get _ more south asian players that you can get into the side the more talent — can get into the side the more talent to— can get into the side the more talent to introduce and the more successful— talent to introduce and the more successful you are likely to be. so i successful you are likely to be. so i don't _ successful you are likely to be. so idon't think— successful you are likely to be. so i don't think the reality is, i don't — i don't think the reality is, i don't think sporting success impacts the club _ don't think sporting success impacts the club was my attitude to racism. if it the club was my attitude to racism. if it it— the club was my attitude to racism. if it it it _ the club was my attitude to racism. if it it it should only encourage it to be _ if it it it should only encourage it to be more — if it it it should only encourage it to be more engaging and accessible. we have _ to be more engaging and accessible. we have heard about some of the ways in which disciplinary action was taken at the club or not taken, and other issues, but do senior players, star players, get preferential treatment when it comes to any allegations made toward them, or any issues in their behaviour? are they treated differently? i issues in their behaviour? are they treated differently?— treated differently? i have not witnessed _ treated differently? i have not witnessed or _ treated differently? i have not witnessed or seen _ treated differently? i have not witnessed or seen that - treated differently? i have not witnessed or seen that so - treated differently? i have not witnessed or seen that so i . treated differently? i have not - witnessed or seen that so i cannot help with — witnessed or seen that so i cannot help with that question. is witnessed or seen that so i cannot help with that question. is it witnessed or seen that so i cannot help with that question.— help with that question. is it more difficult to discipline _ help with that question. is it more difficult to discipline senior - difficult to discipline senior players because of the high profile that they receive an immediate and with fans? i that they receive an immediate and with fans? ., �* _ ,., with fans? i wouldn't say so. in my experience — with fans? i wouldn't say so. in my experience at _ with fans? i wouldn't say so. in my experience at yorkshire, _ with fans? i wouldn't say so. in my experience at yorkshire, i - with fans? i wouldn't say so. in myj experience at yorkshire, i wouldn't say so _ experience at yorkshire, i wouldn't sa so. , , ., say so. did the findings of the inuui say so. did the findings of the inquiry surprise _ say so. did the findings of the inquiry surprise you? - say so. did the findings of the inquiry surprise you? yes. - say so. did the findings of the | inquiry surprise you? yes. and say so. did the findings of the - inquiry surprise you? yes. and what was our inquiry surprise you? yes. and what was your first _ inquiry surprise you? yes. and what was your first reaction on seeing that senior players were involved in this discriminatory behaviour? i was. this discriminatory behaviour? i was shocked, shocked _ this discriminatory behaviour? i was shocked, shocked and _ this discriminatory behaviour? i was shocked, shocked and surprised. this discriminatory behaviour? i was| shocked, shocked and surprised. did you shocked, shocked and surprised. you think that shocked, shocked and surprised. d c you think that publishing just shocked, shocked and surprised. li c you think that publishing just a summary of the report would satisfy those interested in what was actually happening at the club? i actually happening at the club? i recognise that there were limitations in only publishing some of it _ limitations in only publishing some of it. �* . limitations in only publishing some of it. �* , , ., of it. and with the hindsight you not now of it. and with the hindsight you got now what — of it. and with the hindsight you got now what would _ of it. and with the hindsight you got now what would you - of it. and with the hindsight you got now what would you have i of it. and with the hindsight you i got now what would you have done differently? got now what would you have done differentl ? . differently? veseli, the publication, _ differently? veseli, the publication, it - differently? veseli, the publication, it is - differently? veseli, the publication, it is a - differently? veseli, the publication, it is a very| differently? veseli, the - publication, it is a very important question. — publication, it is a very important question, which is the right to bring — question, which is the right to bring a — question, which is the right to bring a number of complexities you would _ bring a number of complexities you would have — bring a number of complexities you would have seen on the report, there was a _ would have seen on the report, there was a very— would have seen on the report, there was a very strong warning about the confidentiality of that report, and without _ confidentiality of that report, and without the participants, many of whom _ without the participants, many of whom are — without the participants, many of whom are employees of the club, agreeing — whom are employees of the club, agreeing to waive those rights, you can't _ agreeing to waive those rights, you can't publish after the investigation was started, there was then subsequently brought an employment tribunal in december 2020 which also _ employment tribunal in december 2020 which also complicated the issue and with strong _ which also complicated the issue and with strong advice from the barristers at that stage, it was that you — barristers at that stage, it was that you could not publish the report — that you could not publish the report. so sadly, we could not, under— report. so sadly, we could not, under legal advice, publish the contents— under legal advice, publish the contents of the report in the way that we — contents of the report in the way that we might have liked to. i�*m that we might have liked to. i'm auoin to that we might have liked to. i“n going to ask me now about some of the most harrowing testimony this morning from mr rafiq about the way he was treated following the loss of his son. are you aware of a bereavement leave odyssey or personal circumstances support for players and staff 's i personal circumstances support for players and staff '— players and staff 's i believe there is a policy- — players and staff 's i believe there is a policy- and — players and staff 's i believe there is a policy. and you _ players and staff 's i believe there is a policy. and you are _ players and staff 's i believe there is a policy. and you are aware - players and staff 's i believe there l is a policy. and you are aware what that is? not— is a policy. and you are aware what that is? not in — is a policy. and you are aware what that is? not in detail. _ is a policy. and you are aware what that is? not in detail. are - is a policy. and you are aware what that is? not in detail. are they - that is? not in detail. are they supportive _ that is? not in detail. are they supportive with, _ that is? not in detail. are they supportive with, we _ that is? not in detail. are they supportive with, we have - that is? not in detail. are they supportive with, we have the l supportive with, we have the testimony from some muslim players about how they had been treated when they were fasting, does the club have a policy around that 's there are mental— have a policy around that 's there are mental health _ have a policy around that 's there are mental health policies. - have a policy around that 's there are mental health policies. 1- have a policy around that 's there are mental health policies. i am. are mental health policies. i am aware _ are mental health policies. i am aware of— are mental health policies. i am aware of one player having had support — aware of one player having had support when i was chairman. i am not aware — support when i was chairman. i am not aware in — support when i was chairman. i am not aware in more detail of more than _ not aware in more detail of more than one — not aware in more detail of more than one player who had that support _ than one player who had that su ort. �* than one player who had that su ort. . ., than one player who had that su--ort. . . than one player who had that su--ort. ~ . support. and what was the feedback received? i have _ support. and what was the feedback received? i have not _ support. and what was the feedback received? i have not received - support. and what was the feedback received? i have not received it. - received? i have not received it. lord tatnell. — received? i have not received it. lord tatnell, some _ received? i have not received it. lord tatnell, some questions i received? i have not received it. | lord tatnell, some questions for received? i have not received it. - lord tatnell, some questions for you now, some other players have come forward after mr rafiq with allegations of racism at the club. do you have plans to reach out to these players and speak to them about what they, too, have experience, and what steps are there in place to support current and former players at the club 's ——? mr; former players at the club 's --? my initial former players at the club 's ——? my initial reaction has been, that there — initial reaction has been, that there is— initial reaction has been, that there is a _ initial reaction has been, that there is a place _ initial reaction has been, that there is a place where - initial reaction has been, that there is a place where people initial reaction has been, that- there is a place where people can go with confidence _ there is a place where people can go with confidence and _ there is a place where people can go with confidence and it _ there is a place where people can go with confidence and it can _ there is a place where people can go with confidence and it can be - there is a place where people can go with confidence and it can be looked| with confidence and it can be looked at carefully. — with confidence and it can be looked at carefully, and _ with confidence and it can be looked at carefully, and taken _ with confidence and it can be looked at carefully, and taken forward. - with confidence and it can be looked at carefully, and taken forward. i. at carefully, and taken forward. i think— at carefully, and taken forward. i think the — at carefully, and taken forward. i think the whole _ at carefully, and taken forward. i think the whole process - at carefully, and taken forward. i think the whole process has - at carefully, and taken forward. i| think the whole process has been at carefully, and taken forward. i. think the whole process has been to encourage _ think the whole process has been to encourage people _ think the whole process has been to encourage people to _ think the whole process has been to encourage people to come - think the whole process has been to encourage people to come forward. | think the whole process has been to| encourage people to come forward. i would _ encourage people to come forward. i would rather— encourage people to come forward. i would rather that— encourage people to come forward. i would rather that than, _ encourage people to come forward. i would rather that than, forgive - encourage people to come forward. i would rather that than, forgive me, i would rather that than, forgive me, to go— would rather that than, forgive me, to go to _ would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the — would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the media _ would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the media where _ would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the media where it - would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the media where it is - would rather that than, forgive me, to go to the media where it is triali to go to the media where it is trial by media — to go to the media where it is trial by media as — to go to the media where it is trial by media as opposed _ to go to the media where it is trial by media as opposed to _ to go to the media where it is trial by media as opposed to a - to go to the media where it is trial by media as opposed to a proper. by media as opposed to a proper process— by media as opposed to a proper process in— by media as opposed to a proper process in place. _ by media as opposed to a proper process in place. i— by media as opposed to a proper process in place. i have - by media as opposed to a proper process in place. i have reachedi by media as opposed to a proper. process in place. i have reached out to lots— process in place. i have reached out to lots of— process in place. i have reached out to lots of people _ process in place. i have reached out to lots of people who _ process in place. i have reached out to lots of people who have - process in place. i have reached out to lots of people who have sent - process in place. i have reached out to lots of people who have sent me | process in place. i have reached out. to lots of people who have sent me a message _ to lots of people who have sent me a message where — to lots of people who have sent me a message where i_ to lots of people who have sent me a message where i think— to lots of people who have sent me a message where i think it— to lots of people who have sent me a message where i think it is— message where i think it is appropriate _ message where i think it is appropriate for— message where i think it is appropriate for me, - message where i think it is appropriate for me, as - message where i think it is. appropriate for me, as chair, message where i think it is- appropriate for me, as chair, to talk— appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to— appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to them. _ appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to them, and _ appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to them, and now - appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to them, and now we - appropriate for me, as chair, to talk to them, and now we have| appropriate for me, as chair, to| talk to them, and now we have a hotline _ talk to them, and now we have a hotline set — talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up. _ talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up, i— talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up, i think— talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up, i think it- talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up, i think it is- talk to them, and now we have a hotline set up, i think it is more| hotline set up, i think it is more appropriate _ hotline set up, i think it is more appropriate that _ hotline set up, i think it is more appropriate that it _ hotline set up, i think it is more appropriate that it goes - hotline set up, i think it is more appropriate that it goes through hotline set up, i think it is more i appropriate that it goes through a process— appropriate that it goes through a process and — appropriate that it goes through a process and is _ appropriate that it goes through a process and is seen _ appropriate that it goes through a process and is seen to _ appropriate that it goes through a process and is seen to be - appropriate that it goes through a process and is seen to be going i process and is seen to be going through— process and is seen to be going through a — process and is seen to be going through a process, _ process and is seen to be going through a process, it _ process and is seen to be going through a process, it is- process and is seen to be going through a process, it is not- through a process, it is not yorkshire _ through a process, it is not yorkshire dealing - through a process, it is not yorkshire dealing with - through a process, it is not yorkshire dealing with it, l through a process, it is notj yorkshire dealing with it, it through a process, it is not. yorkshire dealing with it, it is independent. _ yorkshire dealing with it, it is independent. and _ yorkshire dealing with it, it is independent. and we - yorkshire dealing with it, it is independent. and we will- yorkshire dealing with it, it isi independent. and we will take yorkshire dealing with it, it is- independent. and we will take that challenge. — independent. and we will take that challenge. and _ independent. and we will take that challenge, and take _ independent. and we will take that challenge, and take it— independent. and we will take that challenge, and take it forward. - independent. and we will take thati challenge, and take it forward. hora? challenge, and take it forward. how man calls challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's _ challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's l _ challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's i think _ challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's i think it _ challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's i think it has _ challenge, and take it forward. how many calls 's i think it has gone - many calls 's i think it has gone live today. _ many calls 's i think it has gone live today. in — many calls 's i think it has gone live today, in three _ many calls 's i think it has gone live today, in three or - many calls 's i think it has gone live today, in three or four- many calls 's i think it has gone | live today, in three or four days, we can— live today, in three or four days, we can talk— live today, in three or four days, we can talk to _ live today, in three or four days, we can talk to senior— live today, in three or four days, we can talk to senior members l live today, in three or four days, i we can talk to senior members who are leading — we can talk to senior members who are leading this— we can talk to senior members who are leading this and _ we can talk to senior members who are leading this and have _ we can talk to senior members who are leading this and have set - we can talk to senior members who are leading this and have set up - we can talk to senior members who| are leading this and have set up the structures— are leading this and have set up the structures for— are leading this and have set up the structures for it. _ are leading this and have set up the structures for it. we _ are leading this and have set up the structures for it. we have _ are leading this and have set up the structures for it. we have asked - are leading this and have set up the | structures for it. we have asked him to write _ structures for it. we have asked him to write the — structures for it. we have asked him to write the terms _ structures for it. we have asked him to write the terms of _ structures for it. we have asked him to write the terms of reference, - structures for it. we have asked him to write the terms of reference, and j to write the terms of reference, and i to write the terms of reference, and i would _ to write the terms of reference, and i would imagine _ to write the terms of reference, and i would imagine that _ to write the terms of reference, and i would imagine that there - to write the terms of reference, and i would imagine that there are - to write the terms of reference, and j i would imagine that there are going to be a _ i would imagine that there are going to be a number— i would imagine that there are going to be a number of— i would imagine that there are going to be a number of calls. _ i would imagine that there are going to be a number of calls. people - i would imagine that there are going to be a number of calls. people may feel that _ to be a number of calls. people may feel that yorkshire _ to be a number of calls. people may feel that yorkshire set _ to be a number of calls. people may feel that yorkshire set this - to be a number of calls. people may feel that yorkshire set this up, - to be a number of calls. people may feel that yorkshire set this up, i - feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot— feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot do— feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot do this, _ feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot do this, we _ feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot do this, we will- feel that yorkshire set this up, i cannot do this, we will do - cannot do this, we will do everything _ cannot do this, we will do everything possible - cannot do this, we will do everything possible to - cannot do this, we will do - everything possible to enable the discussions — everything possible to enable the discussions that— everything possible to enable the discussions that people _ everything possible to enable the discussions that people want - everything possible to enable the discussions that people want to l everything possible to enable the i discussions that people want to be had. even— discussions that people want to be had. even if— discussions that people want to be had. even if it— discussions that people want to be had. even if it means— discussions that people want to be had. even if it means me - discussions that people want to be. had. even if it means me personally going _ had. even if it means me personally going out. _ had. even if it means me personally going out. but— had. even if it means me personally going out. but i_ had. even if it means me personally going out, but i want— had. even if it means me personally going out, but i want to _ had. even if it means me personally going out, but i want to try- had. even if it means me personally going out, but i want to try and - going out, but i want to try and keep— going out, but i want to try and keep it — going out, but i want to try and keep it independent. _ going out, but i want to try and keep it independent. i- going out, but i want to try and keep it independent. i have - going out, but i want to try andj keep it independent. i have got going out, but i want to try and l keep it independent. i have got a roll, keep it independent. i have got a roll. and — keep it independent. i have got a roll. and i— keep it independent. i have got a roll, and i think— keep it independent. i have got a roll, and i think that— keep it independent. i have got a roll, and i think that things - keep it independent. i have got a roll, and i think that things havei roll, and i think that things have to be _ roll, and i think that things have to be investigated _ roll, and i think that things have to be investigated properly. - roll, and i think that things have to be investigated properly. thank ou, mr to be investigated properly. thank you, mr chairman. _ to be investigated properly. thank you, mr chairman. were _ to be investigated properly. thank you, mr chairman. were you - to be investigated properly— you, mr chairman. were you surprised at the way that the report into the inquiry was written 's? i at the way that the report into the inquiry was written 's?_ inquiry was written 's? i didn't actually know _ inquiry was written 's? i didn't actually know what _ inquiry was written 's? i didn't actually know what i _ inquiry was written 's? i didn't actually know what i was - inquiry was written 's? i didn't| actually know what i was likely inquiry was written 's? i didn't i actually know what i was likely to receive. — actually know what i was likely to receive. i— actually know what i was likely to receive. i ultimately was surprised that they— receive. i ultimately was surprised that they were differing views from the investigation team, the international law firm and the conclusions of the panel which to some _ conclusions of the panel which to some extent was unhelpful. in terms that it was so — some extent was unhelpful. in terms that it was so defamatory _ some extent was unhelpful. in terms that it was so defamatory could - some extent was unhelpful. in terms that it was so defamatory could be i that it was so defamatory could be published, was that helpful to yorkshire cricket club? it published, was that helpful to yorkshire cricket club?- published, was that helpful to yorkshire cricket club? it was very unhelful yorkshire cricket club? it was very unhelpful because _ yorkshire cricket club? it was very unhelpful because the _ yorkshire cricket club? it was very | unhelpful because the investigation team. _ unhelpful because the investigation team. by— unhelpful because the investigation team, by and large, try to write a report— team, by and large, try to write a report that — team, by and large, try to write a report that anonymized issue so far as were _ report that anonymized issue so far as were able. the panel conclusions were _ as were able. the panel conclusions were much— as were able. the panel conclusions were much more explicit and therefore more complicated to publish. — therefore more complicated to publish. do therefore more complicated to ublish. ,, therefore more complicated to .ublish. i. ., therefore more complicated to ublish. ,, ., ,, therefore more complicated to ublish. ., ,, , publish. do you not think, maybe this is with _ publish. do you not think, maybe this is with hindsight, _ publish. do you not think, maybe this is with hindsight, but - publish. do you not think, maybe this is with hindsight, but if - publish. do you not think, maybe this is with hindsight, but if it - this is with hindsight, but if it had been possible to produce a report that could have been published, that it would have helped the situation and we would not be where we are now? i the situation and we would not be where we are now?— the situation and we would not be where we are now? i agree it would have been more _ where we are now? i agree it would have been more helpful. _ where we are now? i agree it would have been more helpful. there - where we are now? i agree it would have been more helpful. there are| where we are now? i agree it would l have been more helpful. there are a number— have been more helpful. there are a number of— have been more helpful. there are a number of problems with yorkshire county— number of problems with yorkshire county cricket club handling this report _ county cricket club handling this report and one of them is because it is essentially dealing with its own employees in this situation, so there _ employees in this situation, so there is— employees in this situation, so there is a — employees in this situation, so there is a general defamation point but also _ there is a general defamation point but also a — there is a general defamation point but also a different point that a number— but also a different point that a number of your employees have volunteered to participate into this investigation, and have rights associated with that, and unless they waive those rights, then as an employer. — they waive those rights, then as an employer, you can't, it is much harder— employer, you can't, it is much harder to — employer, you can't, it is much harder to publish.— employer, you can't, it is much harder to publish. you mentioned employees _ harder to publish. you mentioned employees being _ harder to publish. you mentioned employees being involved - harder to publish. you mentioned employees being involved in - harder to publish. you mentioned employees being involved in the i employees being involved in the inquiry. did it willargue employees being involved in the inquiry. did it will argue that so many people refuse to give evidence to you? many people refuse to give evidence to ou? . many people refuse to give evidence to ou? , ., �* ,, ., many people refuse to give evidence to ou? , ,, ., ., many people refuse to give evidence to ou? , «a, ., to you? yes, i don't know how many did refuse because _ to you? yes, i don't know how many did refuse because i _ to you? yes, i don't know how many did refuse because i have _ to you? yes, i don't know how many did refuse because i have no - did refuse because i have no visibility— did refuse because i have no visibility on the investigation process. _ visibility on the investigation process, i have not seen the naseem statement. _ process, i have not seen the naseem statement. i— process, i have not seen the naseem statement, i don't know how many didn't— statement, i don't know how many didn't come — statement, i don't know how many didn't come forward. but people did come _ didn't come forward. but people did come forward, tino best and many others _ come forward, tino best and many others did — come forward, tino best and many others did come forward. but one of the difficulties again with the club commissioning the report is that we cannot— commissioning the report is that we cannot compel anyone to come forward because _ cannot compel anyone to come forward because it _ cannot compel anyone to come forward because it is _ cannot compel anyone to come forward because it is a voluntary process. are you _ because it is a voluntary process. are you satisfied with the inquiry? do you think it lifted up a rock or did just say there is a rock over? am i satisfied? i am glad we did it. ithink— am i satisfied? i am glad we did it. i think it _ am i satisfied? i am glad we did it. i think it has — am i satisfied? i am glad we did it. i think it has shown the sunlight at the yorkshire county cricket club's culture. _ the yorkshire county cricket club's culture. i— the yorkshire county cricket club's culture. i don't agree with all of its findings and processes which i think— its findings and processes which i think were — its findings and processes which i think were to some extent flawed, but i think were to some extent flawed, but i am _ think were to some extent flawed, but i am still relieved that we carried — but i am still relieved that we carried out the investigation. what was our carried out the investigation. what was your best _ carried out the investigation. lariat was your best association carried out the investigation. lia"isgt was your best association before you became chair, were you a long—term fan 's a became chair, were you a long-term fan ' . ., ., ., fan 's a long-term fan, from when i was seven — fan 's a long-term fan, from when i was seven years — fan 's a long-term fan, from when i was seven years old. _ fan 's a long-term fan, from when i was seven years old. i _ fan 's a long-term fan, from when i was seven years old. i came - fan 's a long-term fan, from when i | was seven years old. i came straight in from _ was seven years old. i came straight in from not — was seven years old. i came straight in from not being a board member, to being— in from not being a board member, to being chair. _ in from not being a board member, to bein: chair. ~ ., in from not being a board member, to bein: chair. . ., ., , in from not being a board member, to being chair-— being chair. what does the fletcher re ort being chair. what does the fletcher report mean _ being chair. what does the fletcher report mean to _ being chair. what does the fletcher report mean to you? _ being chair. what does the fletcher report mean to you? it _ being chair. what does the fletcher report mean to you? it was - being chair. what does the fletcher report mean to you? it was a - being chair. what does the fletcher| report mean to you? it was a report to yorkshire county cricket club in 2014 into racism in the club, with significant findings, and not a reference point to you, when you became chair? i reference point to you, when you became chair?— reference point to you, when you became chair? i was not aware of it. what do you — became chair? i was not aware of it. what do you know _ became chair? i was not aware of it. what do you know of _ became chair? i was not aware of it. what do you know of the _ became chair? i was not aware of it. what do you know of the fletcher i what do you know of the fletcher report? what do you know of the fletcher re ort? ., . what do you know of the fletcher re oft? ., , ., what do you know of the fletcher reort? . , ., ., ., , report? that it is a thoroughly damnin: report? that it is a thoroughly damning report _ report? that it is a thoroughly damning report and _ report? that it is a thoroughly damning report and there - report? that it is a thoroughly damning report and there are | report? that it is a thoroughly - damning report and there are lots of issues _ damning report and there are lots of issues in _ damning report and there are lots of issues in there — damning report and there are lots of issues in there that _ damning report and there are lots of issues in there that clearly _ damning report and there are lots of issues in there that clearly have - issues in there that clearly have not been — issues in there that clearly have not been addressed _ issues in there that clearly have not been addressed over- issues in there that clearly have not been addressed over the i issues in there that clearly have - not been addressed over the years. and i_ not been addressed over the years. and i think— not been addressed over the years. and i think we _ not been addressed over the years. and i think we have _ not been addressed over the years. and i think we have been— not been addressed over the years. and i think we have been going - not been addressed over the years. i and i think we have been going back over lots— and i think we have been going back over lots of— and i think we have been going back over lots of reports _ and i think we have been going back over lots of reports that _ and i think we have been going back over lots of reports that present - over lots of reports that present various — over lots of reports that present various bits _ over lots of reports that present various bits of _ over lots of reports that present various bits of evidence. - over lots of reports that present various bits of evidence. my - various bits of evidence. my personal— various bits of evidence. my personal position _ various bits of evidence. my personal position is, - various bits of evidence. my personal position is, we - various bits of evidence. my. personal position is, we need various bits of evidence. my - personal position is, we need to take _ personal position is, we need to take stock. _ personal position is, we need to take stock. we _ personal position is, we need to take stock, we need _ personal position is, we need to take stock, we need to - personal position is, we need to take stock, we need to listen, l personal position is, we need to| take stock, we need to listen, go personal position is, we need to- take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey. _ take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey. and — take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey. and it— take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey. and it is— take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey, and it is very— take stock, we need to listen, go on a journey, and it is very difficult. - a journey, and it is very difficult. and how— a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can— a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can i— a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can i relate _ a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can i relate it? - a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can i relate it? my- a journey, and it is very difficult. and how can i relate it? my wife| a journey, and it is very difficult. - and how can i relate it? my wife was born under— and how can i relate it? my wife was born under apartheid _ and how can i relate it? my wife was born under apartheid in _ and how can i relate it? my wife was born under apartheid in south - born under apartheid in south africa. — born under apartheid in south africa. my— born under apartheid in south africa. my mum _ born under apartheid in south africa. my mum was- born under apartheid in south africa. my mum was born - born under apartheid in south i africa. my mum was born there. born under apartheid in south - africa. my mum was born there. the day that— africa. my mum was born there. the day that nelson _ africa. my mum was born there. the day that nelson mandela _ africa. my mum was born there. the day that nelson mandela took - africa. my mum was born there. the day that nelson mandela took over. day that nelson mandela took over you could — day that nelson mandela took over you could have _ day that nelson mandela took over you could have had _ day that nelson mandela took over you could have had a _ day that nelson mandela took over you could have had a blood - day that nelson mandela took over you could have had a blood and - you could have had a blood and people would _ you could have had a blood and people would have _ you could have had a blood and people would have said... - you could have had a blood and people would have said... you're watchin: people would have said. .. you're watching bbc— people would have said... you're watching bbc news. _ people would have said... you're watching bbc news. it _ people would have said... you're watching bbc news. it is - people would have said... you're. watching bbc news. it is mid-day. people would have said... you're - watching bbc news. it is mid-day. we watching bbc news. it is mid—day. we are currently bringing you coverage of the department for culture media answer committee of mps who are questioning the former yorkshire county cricket club chairman, roger hutton, and currently speaking, lord patel. roger hutton resigned, and lord patel took over. they are speaking after azeem rafiq gave his evidence earlier speaking about how he had been close to taking his own life as a result of the racism he encountered at yorkshire county cricket club. so we will continue to listen. well you as he said in his own testament i think half the time it was water off a ducks back because thatis was water off a ducks back because that is what happens every day. you and i and that is what happens every day. aim. and i and everybody here knows that happens every day and lots of environments. it pains me that this is prevalent in cricket, it really does. cricket can be an escape in life that was tough and i wish other children had that opportunity is well and i play my part to look at all the history and actually now work out a very practical action orientated way forward and that is going to be tough. as azeem has said, with politicians being involved, you represent people and it is not about mps, your constituents have said we are not having this and i think we have to follow suit to do this. mr hutton, shortly after you became chair. _ hutton, shortly after you became chair. the — hutton, shortly after you became chair, the murder of george floyd occurred — chair, the murder of george floyd occurred and we had the black lives matter— occurred and we had the black lives matter movement. what was the response — matter movement. what was the response of yorkshire cricket club to what _ response of yorkshire cricket club to what was happening through sport in response to that?— in response to that? there was no immediate — in response to that? there was no immediate response _ in response to that? there was no immediate response to _ in response to that? there was no immediate response to that. - in response to that? there was no immediate response to that. the | immediate response to that. the reality— immediate response to that. the reality was— immediate response to that. the reality was that _ immediate response to that. the reality was that the _ immediate response to that. the reality was that the players - immediate response to that. the i reality was that the players debated amongst _ reality was that the players debated amongst themselves— reality was that the players debated amongst themselves what - reality was that the players debated amongst themselves what stance i reality was that the players debated i amongst themselves what stance they should _ amongst themselves what stance they should take _ amongst themselves what stance they should take in — amongst themselves what stance they should take in relation _ amongst themselves what stance they should take in relation to _ amongst themselves what stance they should take in relation to that - amongst themselves what stance they should take in relation to that and - should take in relation to that and wore _ should take in relation to that and wore a _ should take in relation to that and wore a logo — should take in relation to that and wore a logo i _ should take in relation to that and wore a logo i believe _ should take in relation to that and wore a logo i believe on _ should take in relation to that and wore a logo i believe on the - should take in relation to that and j wore a logo i believe on the shops at the _ wore a logo i believe on the shops at the time — wore a logo i believe on the shops at the time -- _ wore a logo i believe on the shops at the time —— on _ wore a logo i believe on the shops at the time —— on their— wore a logo i believe on the shops at the time —— on their cricket - at the time —— on their cricket shirts — at the time —— on their cricket shirts at — at the time —— on their cricket shirts at the _ at the time —— on their cricket shirts at the time. _ at the time —— on their cricket shirts at the time. when - at the time —— on their cricket i shirts at the time. when azeem at the time —— on their cricket - shirts at the time. when azeem only a few— shirts at the time. when azeem only a few weeks— shirts at the time. when azeem only a few weeks later _ shirts at the time. when azeem only a few weeks later after _ shirts at the time. when azeem only a few weeks later after the - shirts at the time. when azeem only a few weeks later after the george i a few weeks later after the george floyd _ a few weeks later after the george floyd death — a few weeks later after the george floyd death made _ a few weeks later after the george floyd death made a _ a few weeks later after the george floyd death made a statement - a few weeks later after the george| floyd death made a statement that was the _ floyd death made a statement that was the opportunity. _ floyd death made a statement that was the opportunity. so _ floyd death made a statement that was the opportunity. so there - floyd death made a statement that was the opportunity. so there was| floyd death made a statement thati was the opportunity. so there was a lot going _ was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on — was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on in — was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on in sport— was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on in sport in— was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on in sport in response - was the opportunity. so there was a lot going on in sport in response to| lot going on in sport in response to black. _ lot going on in sport in response to black. lives — lot going on in sport in response to black, lives matter— lot going on in sport in response to black, lives matter and _ lot going on in sport in response to black, lives matter and would - lot going on in sport in response to black, lives matter and would you| black, lives matter and would you say yorkshire _ black, lives matter and would you say yorkshire cricket _ black, lives matter and would you say yorkshire cricket club - black, lives matter and would you say yorkshire cricket club was - black, lives matter and would you say yorkshire cricket club was an i say yorkshire cricket club was an outlier _ say yorkshire cricket club was an outlier and — say yorkshire cricket club was an outlier and didn't— say yorkshire cricket club was an outlier and didn't respond - say yorkshire cricket club was an outlier and didn't respond like i outlier and didn't respond like other— outlier and didn't respond like other people? _ outlier and didn't respond like other people? i— outlier and didn't respond like other people? i would - outlier and didn't respond like other people? i would say i outlier and didn't respond like| other people? i would say that publicly. — other people? i would say that publicly. -- _ other people? i would say that publicly. -- i— other people? i would say that publicly. —— i would _ other people? i would say that publicly. —— iwould not - other people? i would say that publicly. —— i would not say i other people? i would say that. publicly. —— i would not say that publicly. —— i would not say that publicly. what _ publicly. —— i would not say that publicly. what was _ publicly. —— i would not say that publicly. what was done? - publicly. —— i would not say that publicly. what was done? did i publicly. —— i would not say that i publicly. what was done? did you allow _ publicly. what was done? did you allow the — publicly. what was done? did you allow the players _ publicly. what was done? did you allow the players to _ publicly. what was done? did you allow the players to have - publicly. what was done? did you allow the players to have a - allow the players to have a discussion _ allow the players to have a discussion but _ allow the players to have a discussion but was - allow the players to have a discussion but was there i allow the players to have a - discussion but was there anything instigated? — discussion but was there anything insti . ated? . instigated? there were three things auoin on. instigated? there were three things going on- the _ instigated? there were three things going on. the players _ instigated? there were three things going on. the players wore - going on. the players wore anti—discrimination logos, i can't quite _ anti—discrimination logos, i can't quite remember what the wording was, you may— quite remember what the wording was, you may have it. we had a committee trying _ you may have it. we had a committee trying to— you may have it. we had a committee trying to commit and develop change and we _ trying to commit and develop change and we knew how important diversity and we knew how important diversity and equity— and we knew how important diversity and equity was and we had a long ongoing _ and equity was and we had a long ongoing plan to develop that and in essence _ ongoing plan to develop that and in essence that was our reaction to the tragedy— essence that was our reaction to the tragedy that happened in the united states. _ tragedy that happened in the united states. ., . tragedy that happened in the united states. . , , ., ., , ., states. last question, where do you think we would _ states. last question, where do you think we would be _ states. last question, where do you think we would be now _ states. last question, where do you think we would be now that - states. last question, where do you think we would be now that this i think we would be now that this committee _ think we would be now that this committee had _ think we would be now that this committee had not _ think we would be now that this committee had not intervened i think we would be now that this i committee had not intervened and insisted _ committee had not intervened and insisted on— committee had not intervened and insisted on hearing _ committee had not intervened and insisted on hearing evidence - committee had not intervened and insisted on hearing evidence and i insisted on hearing evidence and that the — insisted on hearing evidence and that the report _ insisted on hearing evidence and that the report be _ insisted on hearing evidence and that the report be handed - insisted on hearing evidence and that the report be handed over? | insisted on hearing evidence and| that the report be handed over? i insisted on hearing evidence and i that the report be handed over? i am“ that the report be handed over? i am not very clear- _ that the report be handed over? i am not very clear. lord _ that the report be handed over? not very clear. lord patel has made some _ not very clear. lord patel has made some great — not very clear. lord patel has made some great steps forward and i am thrilled _ some great steps forward and i am thrilled and i do wonder whether in fact the _ thrilled and i do wonder whether in fact the input of this committee has resulted _ fact the input of this committee has resulted in— fact the input of this committee has resulted in that being a situation, whether— resulted in that being a situation, whether or— resulted in that being a situation, whether or not he would have had the support _ whether or not he would have had the support and _ whether or not he would have had the support and ability to deliver what he has _ support and ability to deliver what he has delivered without your support — he has delivered without your support and involvement so i do worry— support and involvement so i do worry if— support and involvement so i do worry if you have not got involved what _ worry if you have not got involved what would happen. can worry if you have not got involved what would happen.— worry if you have not got involved what would happen. can you shed any liuht on the what would happen. can you shed any light on the question _ what would happen. can you shed any light on the question i _ what would happen. can you shed any light on the question i asked - what would happen. can you shed any light on the question i asked mr - light on the question i asked mr rafig _ light on the question i asked mr rafiq earlier— light on the question i asked mr rafiq earlier on. _ light on the question i asked mr rafiq earlier on. when - light on the question i asked mr rafiq earlier on. when the i light on the question i asked mri rafiq earlier on. when the report was originally _ rafiq earlier on. when the report was originally commissioned, i rafiq earlier on. when the report was originally commissioned, as| was originally commissioned, as terms _ was originally commissioned, as terms of— was originally commissioned, as terms of reference _ was originally commissioned, as terms of reference were - was originally commissioned, as terms of reference were those i terms of reference were those writing — terms of reference were those writing the _ terms of reference were those writing the report _ terms of reference were those writing the report would - terms of reference were those writing the report would do i terms of reference were thosei writing the report would do two things. — writing the report would do two things. the _ writing the report would do two things, the second _ writing the report would do two things, the second of— writing the report would do two things, the second of which i writing the report would do two| things, the second of which was defined — things, the second of which was defined whether— things, the second of which was defined whether yorkshire i things, the second of which was i defined whether yorkshire cricket club was — defined whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally— defined whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally racist i defined whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally racist and| club was institutionally racist and that was— club was institutionally racist and that was the _ club was institutionally racist and that was the original _ club was institutionally racist and that was the original term - club was institutionally racist and that was the original term of- that was the original term of reference _ that was the original term of reference in _ that was the original term of reference in september- that was the original term of| reference in september 2020 that was the original term of- reference in september 2020 and whilst _ reference in september 2020 and whilst you — reference in september 2020 and whilst you of— reference in september 2020 and whilst you of the _ reference in september 2020 and whilst you of the club _ reference in september 2020 and whilst you of the club in _ reference in september 2020 and whilst you of the club in april i reference in september 2020 and whilst you of the club in april of i whilst you of the club in april of this year— whilst you of the club in april of this year that _ whilst you of the club in april of this year that was _ whilst you of the club in april of this year that was changed i whilst you of the club in april of this year that was changed so i whilst you of the club in april of i this year that was changed so they were no— this year that was changed so they were no longer— this year that was changed so they were no longer to _ this year that was changed so they were no longer to report— this year that was changed so they were no longer to report on- this year that was changed so they were no longer to report on the i were no longer to report on the issue _ were no longer to report on the issue of— were no longer to report on the issue of whether— were no longer to report on the issue of whether yorkshire i were no longer to report on the i issue of whether yorkshire cricket club was — issue of whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally— issue of whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally racist. i issue of whether yorkshire cricket club was institutionally racist. can you shed — club was institutionally racist. can you shed any— club was institutionally racist. can you shed any light _ club was institutionally racist. can you shed any light on _ club was institutionally racist. can you shed any light on that? - club was institutionally racist. can you shed any light on that? inthenj club was institutionally racist. can you shed any light on that? when the oriainal you shed any light on that? when the original scope — you shed any light on that? when the original scope was _ you shed any light on that? when the original scope was set _ you shed any light on that? when the original scope was set out _ you shed any light on that? when the original scope was set out and - original scope was set out and agreed — original scope was set out and agreed with those people representing mr rafiq there were two issues _ representing mr rafiq there were two issues the _ representing mr rafiq there were two issues the investigation team of the panel— issues the investigation team of the panel were to report on. there were the allegations by azeem and to the extent— the allegations by azeem and to the extent as _ the allegations by azeem and to the extent as to which yorkshire county cricket _ extent as to which yorkshire county cricket club — extent as to which yorkshire county cricket club was institutionally racist. — cricket club was institutionally racist. i— cricket club was institutionally racist. i do not know when or how and what — racist. i do not know when or how and what stage the panel asked the investigation team not to make findings — investigation team not to make findings on the said question. it findings on the said question. [it was findings on the said question. was on the findings on the said question. it was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic— was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they— was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did — was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did not _ was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did not do _ was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did not do that _ was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did not do that with i was on the 16th of april 2000 2021. simic they did not do that with my i simic they did not do that with my knowledge — simic they did not do that with my knowledge and _ simic they did not do that with my knowledge and i— simic they did not do that with my knowledge and i can _ simic they did not do that with my knowledge and i can only- simic they did not do that with my knowledge and i can only assumei knowledge and i can only assume because — knowledge and i can only assume because we — knowledge and i can only assume because we had _ knowledge and i can only assume because we had no— knowledge and i can only assume because we had no input- knowledge and i can only assume because we had no input into i knowledge and i can only assume because we had no input into the| because we had no input into the process— because we had no input into the process at— because we had no input into the process at all. _ because we had no input into the process at all, the _ because we had no input into the process at all, the panel - because we had no input into the process at all, the panel must i because we had no input into the i process at all, the panel must have concluded — process at all, the panel must have concluded that— process at all, the panel must have concluded that it _ process at all, the panel must have concluded that it wanted _ process at all, the panel must have concluded that it wanted to - process at all, the panel must have concluded that it wanted to make i process at all, the panel must have i concluded that it wanted to make the finding _ concluded that it wanted to make the finding whether — concluded that it wanted to make the finding whether the _ concluded that it wanted to make the finding whether the club _ concluded that it wanted to make the finding whether the club is _ finding whether the club is institutionally— finding whether the club is institutionally racist. i finding whether the club is institutionally racist. could you speculate. _ institutionally racist. could you speculate, maybe _ institutionally racist. could you speculate, maybe it _ institutionally racist. could you speculate, maybe it was - institutionally racist. could you - speculate, maybe it was appropriate, i do not _ speculate, maybe it was appropriate, i do not know when you were informed about _ i do not know when you were informed about this _ i do not know when you were informed about this change. i would have thought. — about this change. i would have thought, but can you speculate at all as_ thought, but can you speculate at all as to _ thought, but can you speculate at all as to why the panel suddenly, seven_ all as to why the panel suddenly, seven or— all as to why the panel suddenly, seven or eight months into the enquiry. — seven or eight months into the enquiry, suddenly decide that the terms _ enquiry, suddenly decide that the terms of— enquiry, suddenly decide that the terms of reference that they had sent asking for the people conducting an investigation to make a judgment on whether the club is institutionally racist something they did — institutionally racist something they did not want to make because they did not want to make because they wanted to have control over whether— they wanted to have control over whether that conclusion was drawn, why would _ whether that conclusion was drawn, why would they have done that? i why would they have done that? i have why would they have done that? have no why would they have done that? i have no answer, iam why would they have done that? i have no answer, i am sorry, i do know— have no answer, i am sorry, i do know not— have no answer, i am sorry, i do know not know _ have no answer, i am sorry, i do know not know why. _ have no answer, i am sorry, i do know not know why. simic- have no answer, i am sorry, i do know not know why. simic do . have no answer, i am sorry, idol know not know why. simic do you have no answer, i am sorry, i do - know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts _ know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts on — know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts on that? _ know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts on that? [f— know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts on that? if i _ know not know why. simic do you have any thoughts on that?— any thoughts on that? if i was chair of an organisation _ any thoughts on that? if i was chair of an organisation and _ any thoughts on that? if i was chair of an organisation and i _ any thoughts on that? if i was chair of an organisation and i quite - any thoughts on that? if i was chair of an organisation and i quite a - of an organisation and i quite a clear terms of reference which i would expect myself on the board to agree, if for some reason those terms of reference were changed halfway through, i would want an immediate board meeting to discuss why those terms of reference have been changed. find why those terms of reference have been changed-— why those terms of reference have been chanced. �* , ,, been changed. and in the enquiry you set u- ou been changed. and in the enquiry you set up you told _ been changed. and in the enquiry you set up you told the _ been changed. and in the enquiry you set up you told the committee - been changed. and in the enquiry you set up you told the committee they i set up you told the committee they would _ set up you told the committee they would be _ set up you told the committee they would be set — set up you told the committee they would be set by... _ setup you told the committee they would be set by... the— set up you told the committee they would be set by... the independent gc was looking _ would be set by... the independent gc was looking at _ would be set by... the independent gc was looking at this. _ would be set by... the independent gc was looking at this. simic - would be set by... the independent gc was looking at this. simic i - would be set by... the independent gc was looking at this. simic i took| gc was looking at this. simic i took no part. i set up investigation team and the independent panel to answer two questions, one about the allegations of azeem rafiq and the other about whether yorkshire is institutionally racist which is a massive question. the institutionally racist which is a massive question.— institutionally racist which is a massive cuestion. . massive question. the panel decided that it won the _ massive question. the panel decided that it won the investigating - massive question. the panel decided that it won the investigating team i that it won the investigating team to answer~ — that it won the investigating team to answer. , . , . to answer. they decided they wanted to answer. they decided they wanted to answer. they decided they wanted to answer themselves _ to answer. they decided they wanted to answer themselves and _ to answer. they decided they wanted to answer themselves and i - to answer. they decided they wanted to answer themselves and i did - to answer. they decided they wanted to answer themselves and i did not i to answer themselves and i did not know— to answer themselves and i did not know that — to answer themselves and i did not know that. mr to answer themselves and i did not know that. ~ ., , ., know that. mr hutton, is yorkshire cricket club — know that. mr hutton, is yorkshire cricket club institutionally - know that. mr hutton, is yorkshire cricket club institutionally racist? l cricket club institutionally racist? of the _ cricket club institutionally racist? of the report— cricket club institutionally racist? of the report concluded - cricket club institutionally racist? of the report concluded there - cricket club institutionally racist? i of the report concluded there was insufficient evidence, the panel concluded there was insufficient evidence — concluded there was insufficient evidence. i have to observe that in the last— evidence. i have to observe that in the last two— evidence. i have to observe that in the last two months there has been a substantial _ the last two months there has been a substantial amount of thoughtlessness and ignorance and a reluctance _ thoughtlessness and ignorance and a reluctance to apologise, a reluctance to apologise, a reluctance to apologise, a reluctance to see azeem is the victim — reluctance to see azeem is the victim and _ reluctance to see azeem is the victim and a reluctance to put into place _ victim and a reluctance to put into place the — victim and a reluctance to put into place the recommendations which i think really important. that place the recommendations which i think really important.— think really important. that sounds like ou're think really important. that sounds like you're edging _ think really important. that sounds like you're edging towards - think really important. that sounds like you're edging towards the - think really important. that sounds| like you're edging towards the word yes in— like you're edging towards the word yes in answer— like you're edging towards the word yes in answer to _ like you're edging towards the word yes in answer to my— like you're edging towards the word yes in answer to my question. - like you're edging towards the word yes in answer to my question. i- yes in answer to my question. think the question remains unanswered. my think the question remains unanswered.— think the question remains unanswered. g , ., , ., think the question remains unanswered. g , ., , unanswered. my question is to you rather than — unanswered. my question is to you rather than what _ unanswered. my question is to you rather than what happened - unanswered. my question is to you rather than what happened in - unanswered. my question is to you rather than what happened in the l rather than what happened in the report _ rather than what happened in the report in— rather than what happened in the report. in your— rather than what happened in the report. in your view, _ rather than what happened in the report. in your view, you - rather than what happened in the report. in your view, you are - rather than what happened in the| report. in your view, you are chair for 18_ report. in your view, you are chair for 18 nronths. _ report. in your view, you are chair for 18 months, and _ report. in your view, you are chair for 18 months, and she _ report. in your view, you are chair for 18 months, and she resigned. i for 18 months, and she resigned. yes _ for 18 months, and she resigned. yes i_ for 18 months, and she resigned. yes ifeel— for 18 months, and she resigned. yes. i feel that— for 18 months, and she resigned. yes. i feel that it _ for 18 months, and she resigned. yes. i feel that it falls _ for 18 months, and she resigned. yes. i feel that it falls on - for 18 months, and she resigned. yes. i feel that it falls on that - yes. i feel that it falls on that definition.— yes. i feel that it falls on that definition. . ,, , ., ., definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does _ definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does it _ definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does it feel _ definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does it feel to - definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does it feel to be - definition. right, thank you. lord patel how does it feel to be the l patel how does it feel to be the chair— patel how does it feel to be the chair of— patel how does it feel to be the chair of an— patel how does it feel to be the chair of an institution _ patel how does it feel to be the chair of an institution that - patel how does it feel to be the chair of an institution that is . chair of an institution that is institutionally— chair of an institution that is institutionally racist - chair of an institution that is i institutionally racist according chair of an institution that is - institutionally racist according to his previous _ institutionally racist according to his previous chairman? - institutionally racist according to his previous chairman? that- institutionally racist according to his previous chairman?— his previous chairman? that is a very interesting _ his previous chairman? that is a very interesting question. - his previous chairman? that is a very interesting question. that i his previous chairman? that is a i very interesting question. that why our state. very interesting question. that why our state- i — very interesting question. that why our state. i suppose _ very interesting question. that why our state. i suppose it's _ very interesting question. that why our state. i suppose it's almost - our state. i suppose it's almost su: est our state. i suppose it's almost suggest that — our state. i suppose it's almost suggest that organisations - our state. i suppose it's almost suggest that organisations i - our state. i suppose it's almost| suggest that organisations i are other people have cheered in the past not institutionally racist and there is an issue. i have been appointed because it is a charge of institutional racism and clearly the processes and systems and the systemic nature of what has been going on as we have witnessed in many organisations, myjob is to work as hard as i can with people to change that process. i have to be proud of the organisation of which i'm chairman, there is no question about that. i have to lead it in that direction. to about that. i have to lead it in that direction.— about that. i have to lead it in that direction. to wrap this up a little bit, that direction. to wrap this up a little bit. mr— that direction. to wrap this up a little bit, mr hutton. _ that direction. to wrap this up a little bit, mr hutton. hasn't - that direction. to wrap this up a little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the| little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the ecb done — little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the ecb done enough _ little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the ecb done enough to _ little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the ecb done enough to combat - little bit, mr hutton. hasn't the - ecb done enough to combat racism? no. ecb done enough to combat racism? no for— ecb done enough to combat racism? no for me — ecb done enough to combat racism? no for me at— ecb done enough to combat racism? no. for me at the _ ecb done enough to combat racism? no. for me at the outset _ ecb done enough to combat racism? no. for me at the outset when - ecb done enough to combat racism? no. for me at the outset when i- no. for me at the outset when i spoke _ no. for me at the outset when i spoke to— no. for me at the outset when i spoke to the chair of the ecb on the 4th of— spoke to the chair of the ecb on the 4th of september, i always felt that the ecb _ 4th of september, i always felt that the ecb should be carrying out this investigation. i don't know whether you investigation. idon't know whether you want— investigation. i don't know whether you want me to talk about that in answer— you want me to talk about that in answer to— you want me to talk about that in answer to this particular question but i _ answer to this particular question but i think— answer to this particular question but i think the ecb should have carried — but i think the ecb should have carried out this investigation. i think— carried out this investigation. i think the — carried out this investigation. i think the investigation would have been _ think the investigation would have been far— think the investigation would have been far better had they done that for some _ been far better had they done that for some obvious reasons. i think it was right— for some obvious reasons. i think it was right that this should have done it. was right that this should have done it this— was right that this should have done it this was— was right that this should have done it. this was all whistle—blowing claim _ it. this was all whistle—blowing claim against yorkshire county cricket — claim against yorkshire county cricket club extending from 2007 to 2018 against the executive of the club and — 2018 against the executive of the club and their response was to believe — club and their response was to believe that yorkshire should handle that even _ believe that yorkshire should handle that even when the claims were against — that even when the claims were against the executive in place of the time — against the executive in place of the time. and for me that seems wrong _ the time. and for me that seems wrong it— the time. and for me that seems wrong. it also seems wrong to me because _ wrong. it also seems wrong to me because i_ wrong. it also seems wrong to me because i believe i said in the time and that— because i believe i said in the time and that conversation this was a game _ and that conversation this was a game wide issue and yorkshire is a very prominent part of brand cricket and i_ very prominent part of brand cricket and r fen — very prominent part of brand cricket and i felt the ecb should have investigated at that time and had they done the questions that yorkshire is struggling to answer this morning about independence would _ this morning about independence would not have existed. the questions i'm struggling to answer this morning about participation and getting _ this morning about participation and getting people to participate would not have _ getting people to participate would not have existed. i think publication would also have been easier— publication would also have been easier if— publication would also have been easier if the ecb had done that so i think— easier if the ecb had done that so i think they— easier if the ecb had done that so i think they should have recognised this was— think they should have recognised this was an issue that should have -ot this was an issue that should have got involved in. i have heard they have _ got involved in. i have heard they have said — got involved in. i have heard they have said that they are a regulatory body and _ have said that they are a regulatory body and azeem didn't actually approach an option over this issue, he made _ approach an option over this issue, he made some public statements in the press _ he made some public statements in the press and he had no confidence in yorkshire — the press and he had no confidence in yorkshire at that stage. he thought— in yorkshire at that stage. he thought it was institutionally racist~ — thought it was institutionally racist. and in my view the ecb did have _ racist. and in my view the ecb did have the _ racist. and in my view the ecb did have the discretion to start investigating at that stage. i think the regulations to allow them to do that in— the regulations to allow them to do that in any— the regulations to allow them to do that in any member of the ecb could have started the complaint. as indeed — have started the complaint. as indeed they have just done with essex _ indeed they have just done with essex at — indeed they have just done with essex at the moment so i think they could _ essex at the moment so i think they could have _ essex at the moment so i think they could have investigated and i think this should have investigated and i think the _ this should have investigated and i think the investigation would have been _ think the investigation would have been far— think the investigation would have been far more satisfactory if they had stop— been far more satisfactory if they had sto ; ., . been far more satisfactory if they had sto_ ., . , ., . ~ had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafit's had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafiq's earlier. _ had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafiq's earlier. do _ had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafiq's earlier. do you _ had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafiq's earlier. do you know - had stop lord patel, you heard mr rafiq's earlier. do you know what | rafiq's earlier. do you know what white _ rafiq's earlier. do you know what white rose — rafiq's earlier. do you know what white rose values _ rafiq's earlier. do you know what white rose values mean- rafiq's earlier. do you know what white rose values mean and - rafiq's earlier. do you know what white rose values mean and do. rafiq's earlier. do you know what i white rose values mean and do you have _ white rose values mean and do you have white — white rose values mean and do you have white rose _ white rose values mean and do you have white rose values? _ white rose values mean and do you have white rose values? i - white rose values mean and do you have white rose values?— white rose values mean and do you have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire — have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire all— have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire all my _ have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire all my life _ have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire all my life and - have white rose values? i have lived in yorkshire all my life and i - in yorkshire all my life and i suppose white rose values the straightforwardness, bluntness straightforwardness, blu ntness sometimes, being straightforwardness, bluntness sometimes, being honest, transparent, having pride in being a yorkshireman and working with people. the old joke if you come to london and say hello to somebody it is an offence, it sort of sums it up. is an offence, it sort of sums it u -. �* is an offence, it sort of sums it u, r , is an offence, it sort of sums it u a . �* ., . , , ., , ., is an offence, it sort of sums it up. and racism should be no part of that. up. and racism should be no part of that- racism _ up. and racism should be no part of that. racism should _ up. and racism should be no part of that. racism should be _ up. and racism should be no part of that. racism should be part - up. and racism should be no part of that. racism should be part of- up. and racism should be no part of that. racism should be part of any i that. racism should be part of any values anywhere _ that. racism should be part of any values anywhere in _ that. racism should be part of any values anywhere in the _ that. racism should be part of any values anywhere in the world. - values anywhere in the world. gentlemen, thank you for your time. i gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't _ gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't want — gentlemen, thank you for your time. idon't want to— gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't want to detain _ gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't want to detain you _ gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't want to detain you along. - gentlemen, thank you for your time. i don't want to detain you along. i i i don't want to detain you along. i 'ust idon't want to detain you along. i just want— i don't want to detain you along. i just want to — idon't want to detain you along. i just want to ask— i don't want to detain you along. i just want to ask mr _ i don't want to detain you along. i just want to ask mr hutton, - i don't want to detain you along. i . just want to ask mr hutton, premier league _ just want to ask mr hutton, premier league chairman _ just want to ask mr hutton, premier league chairman get _ just want to ask mr hutton, premier league chairman get together- just want to ask mr hutton, premier. league chairman get together monthly in a meeting _ league chairman get together monthly in a meeting and— league chairman get together monthly in a meeting and presumably- league chairman get together monthly in a meeting and presumably county. in a meeting and presumably county club chairman — in a meeting and presumably county club chairman do— in a meeting and presumably county club chairman do the _ in a meeting and presumably county club chairman do the same, - in a meeting and presumably county club chairman do the same, is- in a meeting and presumably county club chairman do the same, is that i club chairman do the same, is that right? _ club chairman do the same, is that ritht? . ~ club chairman do the same, is that ritht? , ~ . ., club chairman do the same, is that ritht? , ~ . . ., club chairman do the same, is that ritht? , ~ . . . ., right? yes. mr rafiq earlier named a few other counties _ right? yes. mr rafiq earlier named a few other counties such _ right? yes. mr rafiq earlier named a few other counties such as _ few other counties such as leicestershire who have been named a few times _ leicestershire who have been named a few times in _ leicestershire who have been named a few times in his evidence. i wonder if you _ few times in his evidence. i wonder if you would — few times in his evidence. i wonder if you would care to comment on the wider— if you would care to comment on the wider county — if you would care to comment on the wider county game whether yorkshire hasiust_ wider county game whether yorkshire hasjust been unlucky in being at the centre — hasjust been unlucky in being at the centre of the storm and it could have been— the centre of the storm and it could have been any one of the others. i don't have been any one of the others. don't think if have been any one of the others. i don't think if you have committed acts of racism you are unlucky. i think azeem was very brave and it is shown some sunlight in a massively important subject. in answer to your question it is quite clear for me speaking to other chairs generally they believe this is a game wide issue and an issue that should be dealt with on a game wide basis and i was invited to speak on the subject at it a meeting of the chairman and i was quite vociferous that this is a game wide issue and needs addressing by the ecb and one form or another. you needs addressing by the ecb and one form or another.— form or another. you could say yorkshire _ form or another. you could say yorkshire are _ form or another. you could say yorkshire are unlucky - form or another. you could say yorkshire are unlucky in - form or another. you could say yorkshire are unlucky in having form or another. you could say . yorkshire are unlucky in having mr rafig _ yorkshire are unlucky in having mr rafiq speak out that i think you are lucky— rafiq speak out that i think you are lucky having an opportunity as a club to— lucky having an opportunity as a club to wipe the slate clean. we talked _ club to wipe the slate clean. we talked about it with him may be having — talked about it with him may be having players at the earliest age of the _ having players at the earliest age of the journey may be thinking it is 'ust of the journey may be thinking it is just bullying and just them and i wonder— just bullying and just them and i wonder whether you would care to name _ wonder whether you would care to name any— wonder whether you would care to name any other conversations you have _ name any other conversations you have had — name any other conversations you have had with chairman where they feel that _ have had with chairman where they feel that this is coming down the track— feel that this is coming down the track for— feel that this is coming down the track for them next? | feel that this is coming down the track for them next?— feel that this is coming down the track for them next? i don't think it is ritht track for them next? i don't think it is right for _ track for them next? i don't think it is right for me _ track for them next? i don't think it is right for me because - track for them next? i don't think it is right for me because i - track for them next? i don't think it is right for me because i only . it is right for me because i only have anecdotal conversation but there are a series of chairman i think want to work more proactively to deal with the situation for the very reason lord patel said. amt; very reason lord patel said. any others on _ very reason lord patel said. any others on the — very reason lord patel said. any others on the edge? you walked away because _ others on the edge? you walked away because you _ others on the edge? you walked away because you are not happy. i think i saw you _ because you are not happy. i think i saw you on— because you are not happy. i think i saw you on the news being followed by the _ saw you on the news being followed by the vultures saying that you resign— by the vultures saying that you resign from the job you love. whether— resign from the job you love. whether any others on the brink? mike _ whether any others on the brink? mike i_ whether any others on the brink? mike i don't know that. i don't know that _ mike i don't know that. i don't know that samak— mike i don't know that. i don't know that. samak thank you very much. i am that. samak thank you very much. am sure you that. samak thank you very much. i am sure you will agree what we have had this— am sure you will agree what we have had this morning _ am sure you will agree what we have had this morning is _ am sure you will agree what we have had this morning is an— am sure you will agree what we have had this morning is an absolute - had this morning is an absolute travesty~ — had this morning is an absolute travesty~ a _ had this morning is an absolute travesty. a young _ had this morning is an absolute travesty. a young man - had this morning is an absolute travesty. a young man who - had this morning is an absolute travesty. a young man who had had this morning is an absolute - travesty. a young man who had his dreams— travesty. a young man who had his dreams shattered _ travesty. a young man who had his dreams shattered by _ travesty. a young man who had his dreams shattered by institutional l dreams shattered by institutional racism _ dreams shattered by institutional racism and — dreams shattered by institutional racism and bullying _ dreams shattered by institutional racism and bullying and - dreams shattered by institutional racism and bullying and abuse. . dreams shattered by institutional l racism and bullying and abuse. our senior— racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures— racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures at— racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures at the _ racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures at the club _ racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures at the club aware - racism and bullying and abuse. our senior figures at the club aware ofi senior figures at the club aware of the unique — senior figures at the club aware of the unique position— senior figures at the club aware of the unique position we _ senior figures at the club aware of the unique position we are - senior figures at the club aware of the unique position we are now. senior figures at the club aware of the unique position we are now in| senior figures at the club aware of. the unique position we are now in to phoeni> brought into the open, would it not be wonderful if— brought into the open, would it not be wonderful if this _ brought into the open, would it not be wonderful if this could _ brought into the open, would it not be wonderful if this could be - brought into the open, would it not be wonderful if this could be a - be wonderful if this could be a defining — be wonderful if this could be a defining moment— be wonderful if this could be a defining moment and - be wonderful if this could be a defining moment and in- be wonderful if this could be a . defining moment and in bringing be wonderful if this could be a - defining moment and in bringing this racist, _ defining moment and in bringing this racist, radish. — defining moment and in bringing this racist, radish, misogynist_ defining moment and in bringing this racist, radish, misogynist behaviourl racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally— racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to— racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to book— racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to book with _ racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to book with the _ racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to book with the great - racist, radish, misogynist behaviour finally to book with the great club . finally to book with the great club of yorkshire — finally to book with the great club of yorkshire leading _ finally to book with the great club of yorkshire leading the - finally to book with the great club of yorkshire leading the way - of yorkshire leading the way --laddish~ _ of yorkshire leading the way --laddish~ l— of yorkshire leading the way --laddish-— of yorkshire leading the way --laddish. ~ i. . . , --laddish. i think you have really articulated _ --laddish. i think you have really articulated what _ --laddish. i think you have really articulated what i'm _ --laddish. i think you have really articulated what i'm thinking. - articulated what i'm thinking. people use this glibly, this is a watershed moment. the last two people i remember when i was involved in anything with stephen lawrence who lost his life which is a watershed moment in terms of changing something and my direct involvement with david rocky bennett who died with david rocky bennett who died with six nurses sitting on him as the result of racism. they both died. this young man thankfully hasn't and who can be moved by what he said? racist or non—racist, if you are human who could not be moved by that? there are a moment in time when we can rise from the ashes. what i want to ask you is do you have _ what i want to ask you is do you have plans — what i want to ask you is do you have plans to— what i want to ask you is do you have plans to make _ what i want to ask you is do you have plans to make this - what i want to ask you is do you l have plans to make this happen? absolutely — have plans to make this happen? absolutely i_ have plans to make this happen? absolutely. i want _ have plans to make this happen? absolutely. i want to _ have plans to make this happen? absolutely. i want to make - have plans to make this happen? absolutely. i want to make this l have plans to make this happen? l absolutely. i want to make this the best time to create club in the world, notjust for cricket but actually for having the right culture and having the right values going forward. and absolutely, i would like to be the template that goes forward. would like to be the template that goes forward-— would like to be the template that goes forward._ that - goes forward. thank you. that concludes _ goes forward. thank you. that concludes our _ goes forward. thank you. that concludes our second - goes forward. thank you. that concludes our second panel. i goes forward. thank you. that i concludes our second panel. lord patel— concludes our second panel. lord patel and — concludes our second panel. lord patel and roger hutton, thank you very much — patel and roger hutton, thank you very much. we are going to take a very much. we are going to take a very short — very much. we are going to take a very short adjournment. that very much. we are going to take a very short adjournment.— very short ad'ournment. that was evidence very short adjournment. that was evidence from _ very short adjournment. that was evidence from the _ very short adjournment. that was evidence from the former - very short adjournment. that was evidence from the former chair i very short adjournment. that was evidence from the former chair of yorkshire county cricket club, roger hutton and lord patel who took over from him and some very significant comments from them and at the end lord patel saying he believes this is a watershed moment for cricket in terms of institutional racism been dealt with and he likened it to the impact of what happened to stephen lawrence shining a light on institutional racism in the metropolitan police. for the first time there, roger hutton seemed to acknowledge that yorkshire county cricket club was institutionally racist and he previously said there has been a substantial amount of thoughtlessness and ignorance and reluctance to change within the club and to see aseem rafiq as of victim and to see aseem rafiq as of victim and under strong questioning he said he does believe that is the case and that led onto lord patel being asked how it felt to be chair of an organisation being described by its previous chair is institutionally racist and he said myjob is to work as hard as i can work with it and i have to be proud of the organisation i'd share and laid it on the right direction. he also said who could not be moved by what aseem rafiq said? aseem rafiq leading the evidence this morning when he was first questioned by the committee talking about how he had been close to taking his own life as a result of the racism he encountered yorkshire county cricket club on many occasions as he was speaking, he had to fight back the tears as he described the ordeal. he said his treatment was inhuman and he felt isolated and simulated when he tried to complain he was ignored. he spoke for more than two hours and he said it was a widespread problem which triggered a sharp drop in british asian representation in cricket. let's listen now to some of what aseem rafiq said this morning. i aseem rafiq said this morning. i don't know how have done it, i really don't. this process of the last ilt months has been really difficult in a lot of ways. the last 14 months has been really difficult in a lot of ways. the next art of difficult in a lot of ways. the next part of the _ difficult in a lot of ways. the next part of the committee _ difficult in a lot of ways. the next part of the committee is - difficult in a lot of ways. the next part of the committee is about i difficult in a lot of ways. the next part of the committee is about to j part of the committee is about to begin. part of the committee is about to betin. ., ~' ,, part of the committee is about to betin. . ~ i. ., part of the committee is about to betin. . ,, i. ., ., , begin. thank you for 'oining us. tom, begin. thank you for 'oining us. tom. you t begin. thank you for 'oining us. tom, you heard _ begin. thank you forjoining us. tom, you heard what _ begin. thank you forjoining us. tom, you heard what mr - begin. thank you forjoining us. | tom, you heard what mr hutton begin. thank you forjoining us. - tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms _ tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms of— tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms of the — tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms of the ecb _ tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms of the ecb stepping - tom, you heard what mr hutton said in terms of the ecb stepping away. in terms of the ecb stepping away from this— in terms of the ecb stepping away from this process. _ in terms of the ecb stepping away from this process. why— in terms of the ecb stepping away from this process. why is - in terms of the ecb stepping away from this process. why is it- in terms of the ecb stepping away from this process. why is it you i in terms of the ecb stepping awayi from this process. why is it you let yorkshire _ from this process. why is it you let yorkshire a — from this process. why is it you let yorkshire a deal— from this process. why is it you let yorkshire a deal with _ from this process. why is it you let yorkshire a deal with this? - from this process. why is it you let yorkshire a deal with this? you - from this process. why is it you letj yorkshire a deal with this? you are clearly— yorkshire a deal with this? you are clearly incompetent— yorkshire a deal with this? you are clearly incompetent —— _ yorkshire a deal with this? you are clearly incompetent —— they - yorkshire a deal with this? you are clearly incompetent —— they are - clearly incompetent —— they are clearly — clearly incompetent —— they are clearly incompetent _ clearly incompetent —— they are clearly incompetent and - clearly incompetent —— they are clearly incompetent and didn't. clearly incompetent —— they are - clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal— clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with — clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with it — clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with it in— clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with it in some _ clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with it in some way. - clearly incompetent and didn't want to deal with it in some way. why. clearly incompetent and didn't want| to deal with it in some way. why did you not— to deal with it in some way. why did you not step — to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up _ to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up on— to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up on the _ to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up on the plate? - to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up on the plate? can . to deal with it in some way. why did you not step up on the plate? can [i you not step up on the plate? can i 'ust sa you not step up on the plate? can i just say firstly _ you not step up on the plate? can i just say firstly we _ you not step up on the plate? can i just say firstly we have _ you not step up on the plate? just say firstly we have obviously sat and _ just say firstly we have obviously sat and listened to aseem rafiq's testimony this morning and i think we've _ testimony this morning and i think we've all— testimony this morning and i think we've all been pretty moved by it say the _ we've all been pretty moved by it say the least and i think it has brought— say the least and i think it has brought forward a lot of emotions and i'm _ brought forward a lot of emotions and i'm sure that the panel share this and — and i'm sure that the panel share this and we — and i'm sure that the panel share this and we have alan from the board would _ this and we have alan from the board would like _ this and we have alan from the board would like to read a short statement of that _ would like to read a short statement of that is— would like to read a short statement of that is all right. it is would like to read a short statement of that is all right.— of that is all right. it is not all ri t ht. of that is all right. it is not all right- the _ of that is all right. it is not all right. the reason _ of that is all right. it is not all right. the reason we - of that is all right. it is not all right. the reason we did - of that is all right. it is not all right. the reason we did not i of that is all right. it is not all- right. the reason we did not step in wrestlint right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is — right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is a _ right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is a complex _ right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is a complex role - right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is a complex role the - right. the reason we did not step in wrestling is a complex role the ecb| wrestling is a complex role the ecb plays _ wrestling is a complex role the ecb plays and _ wrestling is a complex role the ecb plays and being a governing body and we are _ plays and being a governing body and we are the _ plays and being a governing body and we are the national governing body and rather— we are the national governing body and rather promoter and also the regulator— and rather promoter and also the regulator and on regulatory matters it is normal— regulator and on regulatory matters it is normal practice for first—class counties to take on investigations that they want to take on— investigations that they want to take on at their well. it is then for the — take on at their well. it is then for the regulator, take on at their well. it is then forthe regulator, in take on at their well. it is then for the regulator, in other words the ecb — for the regulator, in other words the ecb to— for the regulator, in other words the ecb to sit injudgment of that investigation and if need be run an additional— investigation and if need be run an additional investigation top. unless occasion, _ additional investigation top. unless occasion, and i will pass to mr botros, — occasion, and i will pass to mr botros, yorkshire were very clear they wanted to run this investigation themselves and there was an— investigation themselves and there was an offer put to the city about whether — was an offer put to the city about whether we wanted to... remark to clarify. _ whether we wanted to... remark to clarify. who — whether we wanted to... remark to clarify, who is it yorkshire said to the ecb _ clarify, who is it yorkshire said to the ecb they wanted themselves to deal with— the ecb they wanted themselves to deal with this investigation? can you name — deal with this investigation? can you name the names, please? it was the chair of — you name the names, please? it was the chair of yorkshire, _ you name the names, please? it was the chair of yorkshire, mr _ you name the names, please? it was the chair of yorkshire, mr hutton, i the chair of yorkshire, mr hutton, he said that he wanted the international law firm to carry out this investigation. 50 international law firm to carry out this investigation.— this investigation. so 'ust lied to us, that this investigation. so 'ust lied to that right? h this investigation. so 'ust lied to us, that right? the _ this investigation. so just lied to us, that right? the question - this investigation. so just lied to us, that right? the question put| this investigation. so just lied to i us, that right? the question put to the ecb was _ us, that right? the question put to the ecb was which _ us, that right? the question put to the ecb was which you _ us, that right? the question put to the ecb was which you want - us, that right? the question put to the ecb was which you want to - us, that right? the question put to | the ecb was which you want to pick someone from the ecb on the panel that would come to the conclusions on the findings and the ecb said that given it is a yorkshire investigation it would not be appropriate to have an ecb person on the panel coming to the findings because we have a role to play as an regulator and we would carry out a own investigation on this asked you to take on this investigation, _ asked you to take on this investigation, it- asked you to take on this investigation, it is- asked you to take on this investigation, it is very i asked you to take on this - investigation, it is very different to what— investigation, it is very different to what you _ investigation, it is very different to what you sit _ investigation, it is very different to what you sit on _ investigation, it is very different to what you sit on a _ investigation, it is very different to what you sit on a panel- investigation, it is very different to what you sit on a panel or - investigation, it is very different. to what you sit on a panel or not, what's _ to what you sit on a panel or not, what's the — to what you sit on a panel or not, what's the truth? _ to what you sit on a panel or not, what's the truth? find _ to what you sit on a panel or not, what's the truth?— to what you sit on a panel or not, what's the truth? and may be that the chair at _ what's the truth? and may be that the chair at the _ what's the truth? and may be that the chair at the time _ what's the truth? and may be that the chair at the time had - the chair at the time had discussions as the that but when it came _ discussions as the that but when it came to _ discussions as the that but when it came to our— discussions as the that but when it came to our regulatory department and the _ came to our regulatory department and the role grass play it came to our regulatory department and clearly grass play it came to our regulatory department and clearly do ass play it came to our regulatory department and clearly do we play it came to our regulatory department and clearly do we we/ it came to our regulatory department and clearly do we we not want very clearly do we do we not want a partner— very clearly do we do we not want a partner on— very clearly do we do we not want a partner on the investigation with yorkshire — partner on the investigation with yorkshire county cricket club and at that point _ yorkshire county cricket club and at that point at the very clear decision— that point at the very clear decision we would not part with yorkshire, _ decision we would not part with yorkshire, we would wait for them to carry out— yorkshire, we would wait for them to carry out their investigations and take steps post investigation. we had discussions off—line over this matter— had discussions off—line over this matter and — had discussions off—line over this matter and that _ had discussions off—line over this matter and that is _ had discussions off—line over this matter and that is what - had discussions off—line over this matter and that is what i - had discussions off—line over this matter and that is what i was - had discussions off—line over this| matter and that is what i was told by your— matter and that is what i was told by your organisation— matter and that is what i was told by your organisation so _ matter and that is what i was told by your organisation so i'm - matter and that is what i was told by your organisation so i'm a - matter and that is what i was told by your organisation so i'm a bit i by your organisation so i'm a bit perplexed — by your organisation so i'm a bit perplexed we _ by your organisation so i'm a bit perplexed we are _ by your organisation so i'm a bit perplexed we are partnering - by your organisation so i'm a bit . perplexed we are partnering means taking _ perplexed we are partnering means taking on— perplexed we are partnering means taking on the — perplexed we are partnering means taking on the investigation. - perplexed we are partnering means taking on the investigation. what ii taking on the investigation. what i would _ taking on the investigation. what i would like — taking on the investigation. what i would like you _ taking on the investigation. what i would like you to _ taking on the investigation. what i would like you to do _ taking on the investigation. what i would like you to do is _ taking on the investigation. what i would like you to do is you - taking on the investigation. what i would like you to do is you to - would like you to do is you to supply— would like you to do is you to supply to _ would like you to do is you to supply to this _ would like you to do is you to supply to this committee - would like you to do is you to supply to this committee alli supply to this committee all correspondence _ supply to this committee all correspondence to- supply to this committee all correspondence to that - supply to this committee all- correspondence to that investigation to the _ correspondence to that investigation to the decision — correspondence to that investigation to the decision whether— correspondence to that investigation to the decision whether or _ correspondence to that investigation to the decision whether or yorkshire| to the decision whether or yorkshire are not— to the decision whether or yorkshire are not requested _ to the decision whether or yorkshire are not requested that— to the decision whether or yorkshire are not requested that they - to the decision whether or yorkshire are not requested that they take - to the decision whether or yorkshire are not requested that they take a i are not requested that they take a lead with— are not requested that they take a lead with this _ are not requested that they take a lead with this enquiry _ are not requested that they take a lead with this enquiry and - are not requested that they take a lead with this enquiry and it - are not requested that they take a lead with this enquiry and it was i are not requested that they take a lead with this enquiry and it was a| lead with this enquiry and it was a yorkshire — lead with this enquiry and it was a yorkshire enquiry— lead with this enquiry and it was a yorkshire enquiry of— lead with this enquiry and it was a yorkshire enquiry of whether - lead with this enquiry and it was a yorkshire enquiry of whether or. lead with this enquiry and it was a. yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was— yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was them — yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was them requesting _ yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was them requesting just - yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was them requesting just for - yorkshire enquiry of whether or not it was them requesting just for you| it was them requesting just for you to supply— it was them requesting just for you to supply a — it was them requesting just for you to supply a panel— it was them requesting just for you to supply a panel member. - it was them requesting just for you to supply a panel member. wouldi it was them requesting just for you i to supply a panel member. would you be able _ to supply a panel member. would you be able to— to supply a panel member. would you be able to do— to supply a panel member. would you be able to do that? _ to supply a panel member. would you be able to do that? yes, _ to supply a panel member. would you be able to do that?— be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have _ be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have to _ be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have to say _ be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have to say it _ be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have to say it is _ be able to do that? yes, of course. remark have to say it is pretty - remark have to say it is pretty extraordinary if that is the line that has been taken that has proven not to be true in that respect so thatis not to be true in that respect so that is pretty extraordinary. why is it different for essex?— it different for essex? again, i think we have _ it different for essex? again, i think we have all _ it different for essex? again, i think we have all learned - it different for essex? again, i | think we have all learned some it different for essex? again, i - think we have all learned some very key lessons — think we have all learned some very key lessons from this experience and indeed _ key lessons from this experience and indeed the _ key lessons from this experience and indeed the mishandling of this investigation. reforming our governance process and reforming our regulatory— governance process and reforming our regulatory process happens all the time and _ regulatory process happens all the time and will always run to get better— time and will always run to get better and try to be more thorough. what _ better and try to be more thorough. what you _ better and try to be more thorough. what you are saying is you decided you were go by the rules comes to yorkshire but with essex because of some bad publicity he basically wouldn't go with those rules do not short—circuit that despite the fact that we know from the fletcher report that yorkshire has a long history of basically not involving other communities and frankly racism. i other communities and frankly racism. ., �* ~' other communities and frankly racism. ., �* ~ . , . . racism. i don't think that is a fair characterisation. _ racism. i don't think that is a fair characterisation. what _ racism. i don't think that is a fair characterisation. what is - racism. i don't think that is a fair characterisation. what is a - racism. i don't think that is a fair characterisation. what is a fair i characterisation. what is a fair characterisation? _ characterisation. what is a fair characterisation? titte- characterisation. what is a fair characterisation?— characterisation. what is a fair characterisation? we started our investigation _ characterisation? we started our investigation at _ characterisation? we started our investigation at a _ characterisation? we started our investigation at a time _ characterisation? we started our investigation at a time essex - characterisation? we started our. investigation at a time essex were not conducting an investigation so there _ not conducting an investigation so there was— not conducting an investigation so there was no investigation to wait for as— there was no investigation to wait for as with — there was no investigation to wait for as with yorkshire as we set out. there _ for as with yorkshire as we set out. there was— for as with yorkshire as we set out. there was a — for as with yorkshire as we set out. there was a desire for yorkshire to carry— there was a desire for yorkshire to carry out— there was a desire for yorkshire to carry out this — there was a desire for yorkshire to carry out this investigation led by the international law firm. as carry out this investigation led by the international law firm.- the international law firm. as the launch of themselves, _ the international law firm. as the launch of themselves, because i the international law firm. as the launch of themselves, because itj launch of themselves, because it seems frankly they had a free pass on this until they screwed up? whereas essex because they have not launched because they were into medication with you that the entire process basically you comment and circumnavigate it and shot circulate and carry out your role as a regulator. it seems to me as if yorkshire is almost too big to be pulled up about things like this. is that fair? in pulled up about things like this. is that fair? . ., ., ., that fair? in relation to yorkshire, what happened — that fair? in relation to yorkshire, what happened was _ that fair? in relation to yorkshire, what happened was we _ that fair? in relation to yorkshire, what happened was we were - that fair? in relation to yorkshire, what happened was we were told | that fair? in relation to yorkshire, - what happened was we were told that they wish— what happened was we were told that they wish to _ what happened was we were told that they wish to investigate _ what happened was we were told that they wish to investigate this - what happened was we were told that they wish to investigate this and - they wish to investigate this and they wish to investigate this and they were — they wish to investigate this and they were going _ they wish to investigate this and they were going to _ they wish to investigate this and they were going to commissioni they wish to investigate this and i they were going to commission an independent — they were going to commission an independent independent - independent independent international _ independent independent international law- independent independent international law firm - independent independent i international law firm kallis independent independent - international law firm kallis out to be completed _ international law firm kallis out to be completed within _ international law firm kallis out to be completed within three - international law firm kallis out to be completed within three weeks. international law firm kallis out to i be completed within three weeks. ti. be completed within three weeks. law firm which mr hutton used to work for customer law firm which mr hutton used to work for custome— law firm which mr hutton used to work for customer yes, the findings will be published _ work for customer yes, the findings will be published on _ work for customer yes, the findings will be published on the _ work for customer yes, the findings will be published on the committee j will be published on the committee to carrying — will be published on the committee to carrying out _ will be published on the committee to carrying out the _ will be published on the committee i to carrying out the recommendations from that— to carrying out the recommendations from that based _ to carrying out the recommendations from that based on— to carrying out the recommendations from that based on those _ to carrying out the recommendations i from that based on those commitments from that based on those commitments from yorkshire~~~ — from that based on those commitments from yorkshire. . ._ from yorkshire... neither force the dead. we from yorkshire. .. neither force the dead- we might— from yorkshire... neither force the dead. we might correct, _ from yorkshire... neither force the dead. we might correct, and - from yorkshire... neither force the dead. we might correct, and then i dead. we might correct, and then acceptable way in which it has been handled is a big problem here but in september 2020 when we were given those commitments we were therefore stated we would not state our regulatory investigation till that period had concluded and they'd come to the findings. we were clear we would then be conducting an investigation regardless of that with essex, when i became aware of the allegations that have been made, we then immediately started our regulatory process and there was no response with essex. it seems extraordinary that yorkshire _ it seems extraordinary that yorkshire effectively- it seems extraordinary that - yorkshire effectively constructed the report — yorkshire effectively constructed the report but— yorkshire effectively constructed the report but was _ yorkshire effectively constructed the report but was never- yorkshire effectively constructed the report but was never meanti yorkshire effectively constructed . the report but was never meant for the report but was never meant for the light— the report but was never meant for the light of— the report but was never meant for the light of day— the report but was never meant for the light of day because _ the report but was never meant for the light of day because it - the report but was never meant for the light of day because it was - the report but was never meant for the light of day because it was so i the light of day because it was so messed _ the light of day because it was so messed up— the light of day because it was so messed up stop _ the light of day because it was so messed up stop and _ the light of day because it was so messed up stop and then - the light of day because it was so i messed up stop and then effectively that means — messed up stop and then effectively that means that _ messed up stop and then effectively that means that they _ messed up stop and then effectively that means that they almost - messed up stop and then effectively that means that they almost could i that means that they almost could -et that means that they almost could get away _ that means that they almost could get away with _ that means that they almost could get away with frankly, _ that means that they almost could get away with frankly, burying - that means that they almost could get away with frankly, burying mrl get away with frankly, burying mr rafik's _ get away with frankly, burying mr rafik's guite _ get away with frankly, burying mr rafik's quite telling, _ get away with frankly, burying mr rafik's quite telling, hurtful- get away with frankly, burying mr rafik's quite telling, hurtful and i rafik's quite telling, hurtful and true evidence _ rafik's quite telling, hurtful and true evidence in— rafik's quite telling, hurtful and true evidence in many— rafik's quite telling, hurtful and| true evidence in many instances. rafik's quite telling, hurtful and - true evidence in many instances. lath? true evidence in many instances. why is it that the — true evidence in many instances. is it that the game allows a club, no matter— is it that the game allows a club, no matter how big, to effectively behave _ no matter how big, to effectively behave in — no matter how big, to effectively behave in that fashion? from this point _ behave in that fashion? from this point on _ behave in that fashion? from this point on but it should be to ensure that no— point on but it should be to ensure that no club— point on but it should be to ensure that no club ever again performs in the way— that no club ever again performs in the way that yorkshire has performed over this _ the way that yorkshire has performed over this i— the way that yorkshire has performed over this. .., , , . over this. i completely agree with that sentiment. _ over this. i completely agree with that sentiment. and _ over this. i completely agree with that sentiment. and i _ over this. i completely agree with that sentiment. and i would - over this. i completely agree with that sentiment. and i would say i over this. i completely agree with i that sentiment. and i would say that the reason yorkshire were able to undergo this investigation was because up to that point it was fairly normal practice for first—class counties to run their own regulatory process, with the ecb as the regulator of the entire game, to effectively sit in judgment of that. we have learned lessons through this process. the thing that is that this has been handled so badly, but also indeed the fact that it has taken so long for the investigation to be published and indeed sent to the ecb, which took months for us to get copies of it, so we have a litany of issues to deal with, that will help inform our investigations.— deal with, that will help inform our investigations. damian green. thank ou for the investigations. damian green. thank you for the helpful _ investigations. damian green. thank you for the helpful document. - investigations. damian green. thank you for the helpful document. the i you for the helpful document. the hits _ you for the helpful document. the hits basic— you for the helpful document. the ecb's basic rule _ you for the helpful document. the ecb's basic rule is— you for the helpful document. the ecb's basic rule is to _ you for the helpful document. the ecb's basic rule is to promote i you for the helpful document. the ecb's basic rule is to promote the| ecb's basic rule is to promote the game _ ecb's basic rule is to promote the game one — ecb's basic rule is to promote the game one of— ecb's basic rule is to promote the game one of its— ecb's basic rule is to promote the game. one of its other— ecb's basic rule is to promote the game. one of its other roles i ecb's basic rule is to promote the game. one of its other roles is i ecb's basic rule is to promote the game. one of its other roles is to| game. one of its other roles is to regulate — game. one of its other roles is to regulate the _ game. one of its other roles is to regulate the game. _ game. one of its other roles is to regulate the game. in _ game. one of its other roles is to regulate the game. in a - game. one of its other roles is to regulate the game. in a situation| regulate the game. in a situation like this— regulate the game. in a situation like this where _ regulate the game. in a situation like this where you _ regulate the game. in a situation like this where you have - regulate the game. in a situation like this where you have an - regulate the game. in a situation. like this where you have an inquiry that basically— like this where you have an inquiry that basically is _ like this where you have an inquiry that basically is trying _ like this where you have an inquiry that basically is trying to _ like this where you have an inquiry that basically is trying to hide i like this where you have an inquiry that basically is trying to hide as i that basically is trying to hide as it were, — that basically is trying to hide as it were, not _ that basically is trying to hide as it were, not to _ that basically is trying to hide as it were, not to look— that basically is trying to hide as it were, not to look under- that basically is trying to hide as it were, not to look under the i it were, not to look under the stones— it were, not to look under the stones enough, _ it were, not to look under the stones enough, isn't- it were, not to look under the stones enough, isn't there i it were, not to look under the stones enough, isn't there a i stones enough, isn't there a conflict _ stones enough, isn't there a conflict of— stones enough, isn't there a conflict of interest _ stones enough, isn't there a conflict of interest in - stones enough, isn't there a conflict of interest in their? i conflict of interest in their? shouldn't— conflict of interest in their? shouldn't the _ conflict of interest in their? shouldn't the regulatory i conflict of interest in their? - shouldn't the regulatory function be in a different— shouldn't the regulatory function be in a different body— shouldn't the regulatory function be in a different body than _ shouldn't the regulatory function be in a different body than the - in a different body than the promotional— in a different body than the promotional function - in a different body than the promotional function 's i in a different body than the i promotional function 's because in a different body than the - promotional function 's because it is perfectly— promotional function 's because it is perfectly clear— promotional function 's because it is perfectly clear that _ promotional function 's because it is perfectly clear that in _ promotional function 's because it is perfectly clear that in instances| is perfectly clear that in instances like this— is perfectly clear that in instances like this they _ is perfectly clear that in instances like this they conflict. _ is perfectly clear that in instances like this they conflict. it - is perfectly clear that in instances like this they conflict. it is - is perfectly clear that in instances like this they conflict. it is more i like this they conflict. it is more difficult — like this they conflict. it is more difficult to — like this they conflict. it is more difficult to sell— like this they conflict. it is more difficult to sell cricket _ like this they conflict. it is more difficult to sell cricket now - like this they conflict. it is more difficult to sell cricket now than| difficult to sell cricket now than it was _ difficult to sell cricket now than it was a — difficult to sell cricket now than it was a couple _ difficult to sell cricket now than it was a couple of— difficult to sell cricket now than it was a couple of months - difficult to sell cricket now than it was a couple of months ago i it was a couple of months ago because — it was a couple of months ago because of— it was a couple of months ago because of this. _ it was a couple of months ago because of this.— it was a couple of months ago because of this. you rightly point out that there _ because of this. you rightly point out that there was _ because of this. you rightly point out that there was a _ because of this. you rightly point out that there was a complex i because of this. you rightly point| out that there was a complex role because of this. you rightly point i out that there was a complex role of playing _ out that there was a complex role of playing both national governing body promoter— playing both national governing body promoter as well as regulator. i think— promoter as well as regulator. i think it — promoter as well as regulator. i think it brings some significant advantages to us as a sport to have everything — advantages to us as a sport to have everything under one roof and that includes _ everything under one roof and that includes dealing with governance and operating _ includes dealing with governance and operating as a single sport with one voice _ operating as a single sport with one voice we _ operating as a single sport with one voice. we do have processes which keep— voice. we do have processes which keep the _ voice. we do have processes which keep the independence of the regulatory operation in place, but we will— regulatory operation in place, but we will give a bit more perspective on that, _ we will give a bit more perspective on that, on— we will give a bit more perspective on that, on how it works. you we will give a bit more perspective on that, on how it works.— on that, on how it works. you are ritht on that, on how it works. you are right there _ on that, on how it works. you are right there is _ on that, on how it works. you are right there is that _ on that, on how it works. you are right there is that conflict, - right there is that conflict, potential conflict, depending on circumstances and the ecb recognises that and has put in place structures to deal with that issue so, in relation to regulatory matters there is a regulatory committee which is chaired by an independent chair and you have individuals on there with relevant experience, and they oversee regulatory process including cases such as this, the prosecution of cases, so that there is that separation between the regulatory arm and the promoter as you state, and they hold the ecb to account in carrying out that role, the independent regulatory committee. who are committee? the independent regulatory committee. who are committee?— independent regulatory committee. who are committee? the ecb. they are chaired by an — who are committee? the ecb. they are chaired by an independent _ who are committee? the ecb. they are chaired by an independent individual- chaired by an independent individual and they have independence on there who make decisions in relation to cases. i who make decisions in relation to cases. ., . ~ . cases. i would make the fair observation _ cases. i would make the fair observation that _ cases. i would make the fair observation that parliament | cases. i would make the fair- observation that parliament isn't the best— observation that parliament isn't the best organisation _ observation that parliament isn't the best organisation to - observation that parliament isn't the best organisation to advise i the best organisation to advise people — the best organisation to advise people how— the best organisation to advise people how to— the best organisation to advise people how to regulate - the best organisation to advise - people how to regulate themselves! but nevertheless _ people how to regulate themselves! but nevertheless i— people how to regulate themselves! but nevertheless i would _ people how to regulate themselves! but nevertheless i would suggest. but nevertheless i would suggest that you — but nevertheless i would suggest that you have _ but nevertheless i would suggest that you have a _ but nevertheless i would suggest that you have a look— but nevertheless i would suggest that you have a look at _ but nevertheless i would suggest that you have a look at that - but nevertheless i would suggest that you have a look at that and i but nevertheless i would suggest. that you have a look at that and an independent — that you have a look at that and an independent panel— that you have a look at that and an independent panel that _ that you have a look at that and an independent panel that your- that you have a look at that and an independent panel that your point| independent panel that your point that then — independent panel that your point that then holds _ independent panel that your point that then holds you _ independent panel that your point that then holds you to _ independent panel that your point that then holds you to account i independent panel that your point i that then holds you to account seems a bit circular, — that then holds you to account seems a bit circular, to— that then holds you to account seems a bit circular, to put— that then holds you to account seems a bit circular, to put it _ that then holds you to account seems a bit circular, to put it politely- a bit circular, to put it politely as i a bit circular, to put it politely as i can — a bit circular, to put it politely as i can this _ a bit circular, to put it politely as i can. this might— a bit circular, to put it politely as i can. this might be - a bit circular, to put it politely as i can. this might be a - a bit circular, to put it politely- as i can. this might be a structural weakness — as i can. this might be a structural weakness in — as i can. this might be a structural weakness in the _ as i can. this might be a structural weakness in the process. - as i can. this might be a structural weakness in the process. do - as i can. this might be a structural weakness in the process.— weakness in the process. do you think that is _ weakness in the process. do you think that is appropriate - weakness in the process. do you think that is appropriate that i weakness in the process. do you| think that is appropriate that you appoint the committee who are supposed to be independent of you? we rely on the independence of those individuals _ we rely on the independence of those individuals. that is a structure that— individuals. that is a structure that we — individuals. that is a structure that we have in place. do individuals. that is a structure that we have in place.- individuals. that is a structure that we have in place. do you think that we have in place. do you think that is an appropriate _ that we have in place. do you think that is an appropriate system? i i that is an appropriate system? i believe that it works and the ecb is carrying _ believe that it works and the ecb is carrying out that role. in believe that it works and the ecb is carrying out that role.— carrying out that role. in the absence of— carrying out that role. in the absence of a _ carrying out that role. in the absence of a better - carrying out that role. in the absence of a better system, j carrying out that role. in the i absence of a better system, it works — absence of a better system, it works if— absence of a better system, it works if you _ absence of a better system, it works. if you look _ absence of a better system, it works. if you look at - absence of a better system, it works. if you look at the - absence of a better system, it- works. if you look at the personnel on the _ works. if you look at the personnel on the independent _ works. if you look at the personnel on the independent regulatory- on the independent regulatory committeem _ on the independent regulatory committee. . ._ on the independent regulatory committee... . , ., committee... that is not really the issue. to committee... that is not really the issue- to me _ committee... that is not really the issue. to me it _ committee... that is not really the issue. to me it does _ committee... that is not really the issue. to me it does not _ committee... that is not really the issue. to me it does not sound i committee... that is not really the | issue. to me it does not sound like an appropriate system. in fact it sounds like an system that is open to abuse, but you cannot answer the question. it is appalling. you have said earlier, that you knew that mr hutton used to work for this independent or international law firm that was doing the inquiry into what was going on in yorkshire. did you know that before the investigation started afterwards? latte investigation started afterwards? we were informed in early september that mr— were informed in early september that mr hutton would be using that law firm _ that mr hutton would be using that law firm i— that mr hutton would be using that law firm. i wasn't aware of that before — law firm. i wasn't aware of that before it — law firm. i wasn't aware of that before it came to light. i don't recall— before it came to light. i don't recall at— before it came to light. i don't recall at exactly which point i was aware _ recall at exactly which point i was aware of — recall at exactly which point i was aware of that but it was yorkshire who were — aware of that but it was yorkshire who were going to be appointing that~ _ who were going to be appointing that at— who were going to be appointing that. �* . who were going to be appointing that. . . , . . who were going to be appointing that. . , . . ., that. at a point he became aware of it, the that. at a point he became aware of it. they do — that. at a point he became aware of it. they do at _ that. at a point he became aware of it. they do at any — that. at a point he became aware of it, they do at any point _ that. at a point he became aware of it, they do at any point question i it, they do at any point question that that might not be an appropriate company to do that? late appropriate company to do that? we were conscious of our role, in that were conscious of our role, in that we were _ were conscious of our role, in that we were going to be carrying out regulatory process in relation to this post — regulatory process in relation to this post in terms of the allegations but also yorkshire's handling — allegations but also yorkshire's handling of the matter, therefore it was not _ handling of the matter, therefore it was not appropriate for us to input into how— was not appropriate for us to input into how they carried out that investigation, so we didn't want to therefore — investigation, so we didn't want to therefore tell them who to have won their panel~ — therefore tell them who to have won their panel. it is therefore tell them who to have won their tanel. . ., therefore tell them who to have won their tanel. , ., . their panel. it is not about telling them who to _ their panel. it is not about telling them who to have _ their panel. it is not about telling them who to have on _ their panel. it is not about telling them who to have on the - their panel. it is not about telling them who to have on the panel, i their panel. it is not about telling | them who to have on the panel, it their panel. it is not about telling i them who to have on the panel, it is about saying to them, as a critical friend, i would suggest, that it would not look right having a company, that the mr hutton used to work for, running this inquiry. at no point did you think that was a sensible thing to put forward? i sensible thing to put forward? i agree with the point you are making. it is agree with the point you are making. it is not _ agree with the point you are making. it is not as— agree with the point you are making. it is not as you put it a good look. however. — it is not as you put it a good look. however. we _ it is not as you put it a good look. however, we have got to be conscious that we _ however, we have got to be conscious that we can't— however, we have got to be conscious that we can't take small steps in intervening in that process... it intervening in that process... would not intervening in that process... it would not be intervening, it would be simply saying notjust would not be intervening, it would be simply saying not just that this didn't look good, esther harris, they do not think of suggesting that? �* ., , ., , , that? the ecb has to be independent if we are going _ that? the ecb has to be independent if we are going to _ that? the ecb has to be independent if we are going to be _ that? the ecb has to be independent if we are going to be overlooking i if we are going to be overlooking and sitting — if we are going to be overlooking and sitting in— if we are going to be overlooking and sitting injudgment- if we are going to be overlooking and sitting injudgment of- if we are going to be overlooking and sitting injudgment of a i if we are going to be overlooking i and sitting injudgment of a process and sitting injudgment of a process and we _ and sitting injudgment of a process and we are — and sitting injudgment of a process and we are prepared _ and sitting injudgment of a process and we are prepared to— and sitting injudgment of a process and we are prepared to make - and sitting injudgment of a process and we are prepared to make an- and we are prepared to make an intervention— and we are prepared to make an intervention into _ and we are prepared to make an intervention into one _ and we are prepared to make an intervention into one part - and we are prepared to make an intervention into one part of- and we are prepared to make an intervention into one part of the j intervention into one part of the process— intervention into one part of the process but— intervention into one part of the process but not _ intervention into one part of the process but not another, - intervention into one part of the process but not another, i- intervention into one part of the process but not another, i don't| process but not another, i don't think— process but not another, i don't think that — process but not another, i don't think that is _ process but not another, i don't think that is an _ process but not another, i don't think that is an independent i think that is an independent regulator~ _ think that is an independent regulator~ lt— think that is an independent regulator-— regulator. it is not an intervention, - regulator. it is not an intervention, it i regulator. it is not an intervention, it is - regulator. it is not an intervention, it is a l regulator. it is not an - intervention, it is a passing comment, it is to say something, have you thought about how this looks 's that isn't really intervening. l looks 's that isn't really intervening.— looks 's that isn't really intervenina. ., ., intervening. i cannot confirm that there were _ intervening. i cannot confirm that there were not _ intervening. i cannot confirm that there were not off-line _ intervening. i cannot confirm that| there were not off-line comments there were not off—line comments made _ there were not off—line comments made i_ there were not off—line comments made. i certainly— there were not off—line comments made. i certainly didn't _ there were not off—line comments made. i certainly didn't raise - there were not off—line comments made. i certainly didn't raise it. there were not off—line comments made. i certainly didn't raise it as| made. i certainly didn't raise it as chief_ made. i certainly didn't raise it as chief executive. _ made. i certainly didn't raise it as chief executive. the _ made. i certainly didn't raise it as chief executive. the regulatory i chief executive. the regulatory function — chief executive. the regulatory function needs— chief executive. the regulatory function needs to _ chief executive. the regulatory function needs to sit _ chief executive. the regulatory function needs to sit outside i chief executive. the regulatory. function needs to sit outside the operational— function needs to sit outside the operational function _ function needs to sit outside the operational function for - function needs to sit outside the operational function for obviousl operational function for obvious reasons— operational function for obvious reasons and _ operational function for obvious reasons and some _ operational function for obvious reasons and some of _ operational function for obvious reasons and some of those - operational function for obviousl reasons and some of those have operational function for obvious - reasons and some of those have been raised _ reasons and some of those have been raised aiready~ — reasons and some of those have been raised already. but _ reasons and some of those have been raised already. but we _ reasons and some of those have been raised already. but we need - reasons and some of those have been raised already. but we need to - reasons and some of those have been raised already. but we need to make i raised already. but we need to make sure that, _ raised already. but we need to make sure that, when _ raised already. but we need to make sure that, when we _ raised already. but we need to make sure that, when we are _ raised already. but we need to make sure that, when we are able - raised already. but we need to make sure that, when we are able to - raised already. but we need to make sure that, when we are able to sit i sure that, when we are able to sit injudgment — sure that, when we are able to sit injudgment of— sure that, when we are able to sit in judgment of the _ sure that, when we are able to sit injudgment of the investigation, i sure that, when we are able to sitl injudgment of the investigation, it is having _ injudgment of the investigation, it is having been— injudgment of the investigation, it is having been independent- injudgment of the investigation, it is having been independent all- injudgment of the investigation, it is having been independent all the| is having been independent all the way through— is having been independent all the way through the _ is having been independent all the way through the process. - is having been independent all the way through the process. i- is having been independent all the way through the process.- way through the process. i cannot remember — way through the process. i cannot remember which _ way through the process. i cannot remember which one _ way through the process. i cannot remember which one of _ way through the process. i cannot remember which one of you - way through the process. i cannot remember which one of you said i way through the process. i cannot i remember which one of you said but one of you said that it was normal practice, that clubs investigated, carried out their own investigations. and yet it wasn't normal practice for essex to carry out their own investigation. [30 normal practice for essex to carry out their own investigation. do you want to exniain _ out their own investigation. do you want to explain that _ out their own investigation. do you want to explain that 's _ out their own investigation. do you want to explain that 's i _ out their own investigation. do you | want to explain that 's i understand essex will be _ want to explain that 's i understand essex will be carrying _ want to explain that 's i understand essex will be carrying out _ want to explain that 's i understand essex will be carrying out an - essex will be carrying out an investigation now, but my point was that at— investigation now, but my point was that at the _ investigation now, but my point was that at the time we started out the regutatory— that at the time we started out the regulatory investigation, prior to the coming into the public domain last week, — the coming into the public domain last week, that was covered in the media, _ last week, that was covered in the media, that — last week, that was covered in the media, that there wasn't an essex investigation, so, the standard practice — investigation, so, the standard practice is— investigation, so, the standard practice is that, if there is one, we witi— practice is that, if there is one, we will wait _ practice is that, if there is one, we will wait for that to conclude. if we will wait for that to conclude. if there — we will wait for that to conclude. if there isn't one, then we will commence _ if there isn't one, then we will commence straightaway. at if there isn't one, then we will commence straightaway. at the very least, as commence straightaway. at the very least. as an — commence straightaway. at the very least, as an outsider, _ commence straightaway. at the very least, as an outsider, and _ commence straightaway. at the very least, as an outsider, and i - commence straightaway. at the very least, as an outsider, and i am - commence straightaway. at the very least, as an outsider, and i am not l least, as an outsider, and i am not a cricket person, but looking at this, it is very cloudy and you could describe this as the wild west, what we have heard this morning. do you think the ecb is fit for purpose 's ah morning. do you think the ecb is fit for purpose '— for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are learnin: for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are learning a — for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are learning a lesson. _ for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are learning a lesson. and _ for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are learning a lesson. and what - for purpose 's ah yes, i do. we are i learning a lesson. and what lesson are ou learning a lesson. and what lesson are you learning? _ learning a lesson. and what lesson are you learning? that _ learning a lesson. and what lesson are you learning? that we - learning a lesson. and what lesson are you learning? that we have - learning a lesson. and what lesson are you learning? that we have a l are you learning? that we have a lona wa are you learning? that we have a long way to _ are you learning? that we have a long way to go — are you learning? that we have a long way to go to _ are you learning? that we have a long way to go to fulfil— are you learning? that we have a long way to go to fulfil our- long way to go to fulfil our ambition— long way to go to fulfil our ambition to _ long way to go to fulfil our ambition to make - long way to go to fulfil our ambition to make cricket i long way to go to fulfil our- ambition to make cricket again for everyone — ambition to make cricket again for everyone that _ ambition to make cricket again for everyone. that is— ambition to make cricket again for everyone. that is something - ambition to make cricket again for everyone. that is something that, i everyone. that is something that, everyone. that is something that, ever since — everyone. that is something that, ever since i— everyone. that is something that, ever since i have _ everyone. that is something that, ever since i have done _ everyone. that is something that, ever since i have done this- everyone. that is something that, ever since i have done thisjob, ii ever since i have done thisjob, i have _ ever since i have done thisjob, i have trv— ever since i have done thisjob, i have try to— ever since i have done thisjob, i have try to ensure _ ever since i have done thisjob, i have try to ensure that - ever since i have done thisjob, i have try to ensure that the - ever since i have done thisjob, i| have try to ensure that the game ever since i have done thisjob, i. have try to ensure that the game is providing _ have try to ensure that the game is providing opportunities _ have try to ensure that the game is providing opportunities to - have try to ensure that the game is providing opportunities to more - providing opportunities to more people. — providing opportunities to more people. from _ providing opportunities to more people. from all— providing opportunities to more people, from all different - people, from all different backgrounds _ people, from all different backgrounds matters, - people, from all differentl backgrounds matters, and people, from all different - backgrounds matters, and take people, from all different _ backgrounds matters, and take part in this— backgrounds matters, and take part in this game — backgrounds matters, and take part in this game you _ backgrounds matters, and take part in this game-— in this game. you get funding from the ehrc to _ in this game. you get funding from the ehrc to address _ in this game. you get funding from the ehrc to address inequality - the ehrc to address inequality issues, what are you doing to address those issues? we receive fundin: address those issues? we receive funding from _ address those issues? we receive funding from sport _ address those issues? we receive funding from sport england - address those issues? we receive funding from sport england as - address those issues? we receive | funding from sport england as well to drive _ funding from sport england as well to drive diversity issues across the game _ to drive diversity issues across the game. there is quite a lot that we have _ game. there is quite a lot that we have initiated. the independent commission for equity in cricket was conceived _ commission for equity in cricket was conceived of— commission for equity in cricket was conceived of in november 2020, launched — conceived of in november 2020, launched march 2021, there remit is to explore _ launched march 2021, there remit is to explore issues around race, gender— to explore issues around race, gender and class in cricket at the moment — gender and class in cricket at the moment. so that is the anti—discrimination code which we launched — anti—discrimination code which we launched this season which has rolled — launched this season which has rolled out— launched this season which has rolled out across the game and it is that everyone within the ecb jurisdiction is now holding two new standards— jurisdiction is now holding two new standards around discrimination. and how are you — standards around discrimination. jifuc how are you measuring whether people are actually doing this 's if you could pick _ are actually doing this 's if you could pick up _ are actually doing this 's if you could pick up on _ are actually doing this 's if you could pick up on that, - are actually doing this 's if you could pick up on that, there i are actually doing this 's if you | could pick up on that, there are many— could pick up on that, there are many ways _ could pick up on that, there are many ways. if could pick up on that, there are many ways-— could pick up on that, there are many ways. if you could not pass auestions many ways. if you could not pass questions around _ many ways. if you could not pass questions around to _ many ways. if you could not pass questions around to one - many ways. if you could not pass| questions around to one another. many ways. if you could not pass i questions around to one another. if you are not capable of answering the question, the chief executive can answer. sign up so that stakeholders are held to have gone through a regulatory process and that can include fines and banning of players. include fines and banning of -la ers. , . , include fines and banning of .la ers, , . , ., include fines and banning of -la ers. , . , ., players. very recently we have taken ste s, players. very recently we have taken stes, as players. very recently we have taken steps. as soon _ players. very recently we have taken steps, as soon as _ players. very recently we have taken steps, as soon as we _ players. very recently we have taken steps, as soon as we were _ players. very recently we have taken steps, as soon as we were aware - players. very recently we have taken steps, as soon as we were aware of| steps, as soon as we were aware of the decision— steps, as soon as we were aware of the decision and _ steps, as soon as we were aware of the decision and we _ steps, as soon as we were aware of the decision and we have _ steps, as soon as we were aware of the decision and we have been - the decision and we have been informed — the decision and we have been informed of— the decision and we have been informed of the _ the decision and we have been informed of the decision - the decision and we have been informed of the decision about yorkshire, _ informed of the decision about yorkshire, in— informed of the decision about yorkshire, in late _ informed of the decision about yorkshire, in late october- informed of the decision about yorkshire, in late october we. informed of the decision about i yorkshire, in late october we had informed of the decision about - yorkshire, in late october we had an instantaneous — yorkshire, in late october we had an instantaneous board _ yorkshire, in late october we had an instantaneous board meeting - yorkshire, in late october we had an instantaneous board meeting to - instantaneous board meeting to decide _ instantaneous board meeting to decide what— instantaneous board meeting to decide what sanctions _ instantaneous board meeting to decide what sanctions we - instantaneous board meeting to decide what sanctions we wouldj instantaneous board meeting to - decide what sanctions we would bring to bear— decide what sanctions we would bring to bear against— decide what sanctions we would bring to bear against yorkshire, _ decide what sanctions we would bring to bear against yorkshire, having - to bear against yorkshire, having apologised — to bear against yorkshire, having apologised to _ to bear against yorkshire, having apologised to azeem _ to bear against yorkshire, having apologised to azeem for - to bear against yorkshire, having apologised to azeem for the - apologised to azeem for the extensive _ apologised to azeem for the extensive racist _ apologised to azeem for the extensive racist behaviour. apologised to azeem for the i extensive racist behaviour he apologised to azeem for the - extensive racist behaviour he had been _ extensive racist behaviour he had been subject _ extensive racist behaviour he had been subject to _ extensive racist behaviour he had been subject to whilst _ extensive racist behaviour he had been subject to whilst a - extensive racist behaviour he had been subject to whilst a player. extensive racist behaviour he had been subject to whilst a player at| been subject to whilst a player at yorkshire — been subject to whilst a player at yorkshire. the _ been subject to whilst a player at yorkshire. the subsequent- been subject to whilst a player at. yorkshire. the subsequent decision not to— yorkshire. the subsequent decision not to discipline _ yorkshire. the subsequent decision not to discipline internally - yorkshire. the subsequent decision not to discipline internally made . yorkshire. the subsequent decision not to discipline internally made us| not to discipline internally made us take immediate _ not to discipline internally made us take immediate steps _ not to discipline internally made us take immediate steps to _ not to discipline internally made us take immediate steps to sanction l take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire — take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire county— take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire county cup _ take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire county cup with - take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire county cup with a - take immediate steps to sanction yorkshire county cup with a full l yorkshire county cup with a full weight— yorkshire county cup with a full weight of— yorkshire county cup with a full weight of what _ yorkshire county cup with a full weight of what we _ yorkshire county cup with a full weight of what we have - yorkshire county cup with a full weight of what we have at - yorkshire county cup with a full weight of what we have at our i weight of what we have at our disposal. _ weight of what we have at our disposal, that— weight of what we have at our disposal, that might - weight of what we have at our disposal, that might county. weight of what we have at our - disposal, that might county cricket club, _ disposal, that might county cricket club. first— disposal, that might county cricket club. first of— disposal, that might county cricket club, first of all— disposal, that might county cricket club, first of all we _ disposal, that might county cricket club, first of all we provide - club, first of all we provide funding _ club, first of all we provide funding to _ club, first of all we provide funding to all— club, first of all we provide funding to all first—class i club, first of all we provide - funding to all first—class counties but we _ funding to all first—class counties but we also — funding to all first—class counties but we also provide _ funding to all first—class counties but we also provide matches - funding to all first—class counties but we also provide matches and| funding to all first—class counties - but we also provide matches and test match _ but we also provide matches and test match and _ but we also provide matches and test match and international _ but we also provide matches and test match and international match - match and international match allocations _ match and international match allocations is _ match and international match allocations is one _ match and international match allocations is one of— match and international match allocations is one of the - match and international match allocations is one of the majorj allocations is one of the major revenue — allocations is one of the major revenue streams— allocations is one of the major revenue streams for— allocations is one of the majorl revenue streams for first—class counties, — revenue streams for first—class counties, so— revenue streams for first—class counties, so we _ revenue streams for first—class counties, so we have _ revenue streams for first—class i counties, so we have immediately taken _ counties, so we have immediately taken steps — counties, so we have immediately taken steps to _ counties, so we have immediately taken steps to suspend _ counties, so we have immediately taken steps to suspend yorkshirel taken steps to suspend yorkshire from _ taken steps to suspend yorkshire from being — taken steps to suspend yorkshire from being a _ taken steps to suspend yorkshire from being a host _ taken steps to suspend yorkshire from being a host of _ taken steps to suspend yorkshirej from being a host of international cricket _ from being a host of international cricket. ., ., , from being a host of international cricket. . ., , ., from being a host of international cricket. . ., ., cricket. that has not come about throuuh cricket. that has not come about through your _ cricket. that has not come about through your processes, - cricket. that has not come about through your processes, has - cricket. that has not come about through your processes, has it? | cricket. that has not come about. through your processes, has it? the processes that you have instigated. those are processes that, lots of processes, — those are processes that, lots of processes, there _ those are processes that, lots of processes, there is _ those are processes that, lots of processes, there is a _ those are processes that, lots of processes, there is a major- those are processes that, lots of| processes, there is a major match allocation — processes, there is a major match allocation process. _ processes, there is a ma'or match allocation process._ allocation process. talking about engagement _ allocation process. talking about engagement of _ allocation process. talking about engagement of stakeholders, . allocation process. talking about engagement of stakeholders, as| allocation process. talking about - engagement of stakeholders, as you mention, what has come to light hasn't come through anything you are doing, i accept you have taken action as a result of what has come out. ~ ., ., .. action as a result of what has come out. ~ . ., ,, ., action as a result of what has come out. ~ . .,~ ., , ., out. we have taken action before that, as well. _ out. we have taken action before that, as well. we _ out. we have taken action before that, as well. we were _ out. we have taken action before that, as well. we were talking i out. we have taken action before that, as well. we were talking a l that, as well. we were talking a little _ that, as well. we were talking a little earlier— that, as well. we were talking a little earlier about _ that, as well. we were talking a little earlier about the - that, as well. we were talking a little earlier about the impact. that, as well. we were talking aj little earlier about the impact of the black— little earlier about the impact of the black lives _ little earlier about the impact of the black lives matter - little earlier about the impact of. the black lives matter movement across _ the black lives matter movement across cricket. _ the black lives matter movement across cricket. as _ the black lives matter movement across cricket. as a _ the black lives matter movement across cricket. as a result - the black lives matter movement across cricket. as a result of- the black lives matter movement across cricket. as a result of that| across cricket. as a result of that we did _ across cricket. as a result of that we did our— across cricket. as a result of that we did our own _ across cricket. as a result of that we did our own exercise - across cricket. as a result of that we did our own exercise within . across cricket. as a result of that. we did our own exercise within the ecb which — we did our own exercise within the ecb which i — we did our own exercise within the ecb which i led _ we did our own exercise within the ecb which i led personally- we did our own exercise within the ecb which i led personally to - we did our own exercise within the ecb which i led personally to hearl ecb which i led personally to hear the experiences _ ecb which i led personally to hear the experiences of _ ecb which i led personally to hear the experiences of predominantlyj the experiences of predominantly black— the experiences of predominantly black british _ the experiences of predominantly black british cricketers _ the experiences of predominantly black british cricketers through i the experiences of predominantly. black british cricketers through the course _ black british cricketers through the course of _ black british cricketers through the course of their— black british cricketers through the course of their cricket _ black british cricketers through the course of their cricket careers - course of their cricket careers dating — course of their cricket careers dating back— course of their cricket careers dating back sometimes - course of their cricket careers dating back sometimes to - course of their cricket careersj dating back sometimes to the course of their cricket careers - dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to— dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask— dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask them, _ dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask them, and _ dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask them, and that- dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask them, and that led - dating back sometimes to the 90s, and to ask them, and that led to i dating back sometimes to the 90s, i and to ask them, and that led to the instigation _ and to ask them, and that led to the instigation and — and to ask them, and that led to the instigation and the _ and to ask them, and that led to the instigation and the launch _ and to ask them, and that led to the instigation and the launch in- instigation and the launch in november— instigation and the launch in november 2020, _ instigation and the launch in november 2020, we - instigation and the launch in. november 2020, we launched instigation and the launch in- november 2020, we launched the independent— november 2020, we launched the independent commission - november 2020, we launched the independent commission for - november 2020, we launched the| independent commission for equity november 2020, we launched the - independent commission for equity in cricket, _ independent commission for equity in cricket, that— independent commission for equity in cricket, that subsequently— independent commission for equity in cricket, that subsequently launched l cricket, that subsequently launched in march _ cricket, that subsequently launched in march this — cricket, that subsequently launched in march this year— cricket, that subsequently launched in march this year and _ cricket, that subsequently launched in march this year and we _ cricket, that subsequently launched in march this year and we talked - cricket, that subsequently launched in march this year and we talked a i in march this year and we talked a little _ in march this year and we talked a little bit _ in march this year and we talked a little bit about — in march this year and we talked a little bit about that. _ in march this year and we talked a little bit about that. we _ in march this year and we talked a little bit about that. we have - in march this year and we talked a little bit about that. we have the i little bit about that. we have the independent _ little bit about that. we have the independent board _ little bit about that. we have the independent board which - little bit about that. we have the independent board which has- little bit about that. we have the i independent board which has been little bit about that. we have the - independent board which has been in place since _ independent board which has been in place since 2018— independent board which has been in place since 2018 stock— independent board which has been in place since 2018 stock since - independent board which has been in place since 2018 stock since we - independent board which has been in place since 2018 stock since we put l place since 2018 stock since we put that in _ place since 2018 stock since we put that in place — place since 2018 stock since we put that in place it _ place since 2018 stock since we put that in place it is _ place since 2018 stock since we put that in place it is a _ place since 2018 stock since we put that in place it is a fully— that in place it is a fully independent _ that in place it is a fully independent board - that in place it is a fully- independent board overseeing all that in place it is a fully— independent board overseeing all of cricket _ independent board overseeing all of cricket in _ independent board overseeing all of cricket in this — independent board overseeing all of cricket in this country— independent board overseeing all of cricket in this country and _ independent board overseeing all of cricket in this country and that - independent board overseeing all of cricket in this country and that is - cricket in this country and that is going _ cricket in this country and that is going some _ cricket in this country and that is going some way— cricket in this country and that is going some way beyond - cricket in this country and that is going some way beyond the - cricket in this country and that is - going some way beyond the sporting and governance _ going some way beyond the sporting and governance code. _ going some way beyond the sporting and governance code. we _ going some way beyond the sporting and governance code. we have - going some way beyond the sporting. and governance code. we have advised and governance code. we have advised and revamp _ and governance code. we have advised and revamp the— and governance code. we have advised and revamp the anti—discrimination - and revamp the anti—discrimination code, _ and revamp the anti—discrimination code, which— and revamp the anti—discrimination code, which now— and revamp the anti—discrimination code, which now covers _ and revamp the anti—discrimination code, which now covers all - and revamp the anti—discrimination code, which now covers all playersl code, which now covers all players and administrators— code, which now covers all players and administrators through - code, which now covers all players and administrators through the - code, which now covers all players i and administrators through the game of cricket _ and administrators through the game of cricket in _ and administrators through the game of cricket in this _ and administrators through the game of cricket in this country. _ and administrators through the game of cricket in this country. we - and administrators through the game of cricket in this country. we have - of cricket in this country. we have -ot of cricket in this country. we have got diversity— of cricket in this country. we have got diversity standards _ of cricket in this country. we have got diversity standards being - got diversity standards being applied — got diversity standards being applied through _ got diversity standards being applied through the - got diversity standards being applied through the game. . got diversity standards being i applied through the game. we got diversity standards being - applied through the game. we have an old game _ applied through the game. we have an old game meeting _ applied through the game. we have an old game meeting later— applied through the game. we have an old game meeting later this— applied through the game. we have an old game meeting later this week, - old game meeting later this week, where _ old game meeting later this week, where will— old game meeting later this week, where will be — old game meeting later this week, where will be launching _ old game meeting later this week, where will be launching —— - old game meeting later this week, where will be launching —— all- old game meeting later this week, i where will be launching —— all game meeting _ where will be launching -- all game meetinu. ., ., ,, where will be launching -- all game meetinu. ., ., ~ ., , meeting. how do you know these thin . s are meeting. how do you know these things are being _ meeting. how do you know these things are being adhered - meeting. how do you know these things are being adhered to - meeting. how do you know these things are being adhered to 's - things are being adhered to 's because that seems to be where the breakdown is from what you are doing. i breakdown is from what you are doinu. ., ., ~ breakdown is from what you are doinu. ., . �* ., doing. i do feelthat the ecb have been aware _ doing. i do feelthat the ecb have been aware of _ doing. i do feelthat the ecb have been aware of the _ doing. i do feelthat the ecb have been aware of the importance - doing. i do feelthat the ecb have been aware of the importance of| doing. i do feel that the ecb have i been aware of the importance of this agenda, _ been aware of the importance of this agenda, not — been aware of the importance of this agenda, notjust— been aware of the importance of this agenda, notjust racism, _ been aware of the importance of this agenda, notjust racism, the - been aware of the importance of this agenda, notjust racism, the whole l agenda, notjust racism, the whole point _ agenda, notjust racism, the whole point of— agenda, notjust racism, the whole point of discrimination, _ agenda, notjust racism, the whole point of discrimination, equity, - point of discrimination, equity, diversity— point of discrimination, equity, diversity and _ point of discrimination, equity, diversity and inclusion - point of discrimination, equity, diversity and inclusion has - point of discrimination, equity, | diversity and inclusion has been that, _ diversity and inclusion has been that, if— diversity and inclusion has been that, if you _ diversity and inclusion has been that, if you look _ diversity and inclusion has been that, if you look at _ diversity and inclusion has been that, if you look at our - diversity and inclusion has been that, if you look at our strategyj that, if you look at our strategy document— that, if you look at our strategy document inspiring _ that, if you look at our strategyl document inspiring generations, that, if you look at our strategy i document inspiring generations, it has acting — document inspiring generations, it has acting against _ document inspiring generations, it has acting against discrimination l document inspiring generations, it| has acting against discrimination at its heart _ has acting against discrimination at its heart what— has acting against discrimination at its heart. what we _ has acting against discrimination at its heart. what we have _ has acting against discrimination at its heart. what we have struggled. its heart. what we have struggled with is _ its heart. what we have struggled with is getting _ its heart. what we have struggled with is getting our— its heart. what we have struggled with is getting our first— its heart. what we have struggled with is getting our first class - its heart. what we have struggledl with is getting our first class game to wake _ with is getting our first class game to wake up— with is getting our first class game to wake up to _ with is getting our first class game to wake up to the _ with is getting our first class game to wake up to the same _ with is getting our first class game to wake up to the same extent. i with is getting our first class game. to wake up to the same extent. and we are _ to wake up to the same extent. and we are at— to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that — to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that stage _ to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that stage now, _ to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that stage now, if - to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that stage now, if we i to wake up to the same extent. and we are at that stage now, if we are| we are at that stage now, if we are not already— we are at that stage now, if we are not already in _ we are at that stage now, if we are not already in an _ we are at that stage now, if we are not already in an emergency - we are at that stage now, if we are not already in an emergency then i we are at that stage now, if we are l not already in an emergency then we are approaching _ not already in an emergency then we are approaching one, _ not already in an emergency then we are approaching one, and _ not already in an emergency then we are approaching one, and i— not already in an emergency then we are approaching one, and i think, i not already in an emergency then we are approaching one, and i think, to| are approaching one, and i think, to reflect— are approaching one, and i think, to reflect some — are approaching one, and i think, to reflect some of _ are approaching one, and i think, to reflect some of the _ are approaching one, and i think, to reflect some of the really _ reflect some of the really interesting _ reflect some of the really interesting comments i reflect some of the reallyi interesting comments that reflect some of the really - interesting comments that azeem reflect some of the really _ interesting comments that azeem has made this— interesting comments that azeem has made this morning _ interesting comments that azeem has made this morning it— interesting comments that azeem has made this morning it is— interesting comments that azeem has made this morning it is very— made this morning it is very refreshing _ made this morning it is very refreshing that, _ made this morning it is very refreshing that, even - made this morning it is very| refreshing that, even having made this morning it is very- refreshing that, even having been through— refreshing that, even having been through the — refreshing that, even having been through the experiences - refreshing that, even having been through the experiences he - refreshing that, even having been through the experiences he has. refreshing that, even having been i through the experiences he has been through. _ through the experiences he has been through. he — through the experiences he has been through. he is— through the experiences he has been through, he is willing _ through the experiences he has been through, he is willing to— through the experiences he has been through, he is willing to help - through the experiences he has been through, he is willing to help us, i through, he is willing to help us, to work— through, he is willing to help us, to work with _ through, he is willing to help us, to work with us, _ through, he is willing to help us, to work with us, to _ through, he is willing to help us, to work with us, to be _ through, he is willing to help us, to work with us, to be a - through, he is willing to help us, to work with us, to be a leader, i through, he is willing to help us, i to work with us, to be a leader, to help— to work with us, to be a leader, to help us— to work with us, to be a leader, to help us ensure _ to work with us, to be a leader, to help us ensure that _ to work with us, to be a leader, to help us ensure that these - to work with us, to be a leader, to help us ensure that these reforms| help us ensure that these reforms are taken— help us ensure that these reforms are taken through _ help us ensure that these reforms are taken through the _ help us ensure that these reforms are taken through the game, i help us ensure that these reforms i are taken through the game, quickly, and that— are taken through the game, quickly, and that it _ are taken through the game, quickly, and that it is — are taken through the game, quickly, and that it is action— are taken through the game, quickly, and that it is action not— are taken through the game, quickly, and that it is action not words - are taken through the game, quickly, and that it is action not words that i and that it is action not words that follows _ and that it is action not words that follows. ., .. and that it is action not words that follows. ., ,, , ., and that it is action not words that follows-_ you _ and that it is action not words that follows._ you asked i and that it is action not words that follows._ you asked the follows. thank you. you asked the auestion follows. thank you. you asked the question as _ follows. thank you. you asked the question as to _ follows. thank you. you asked the question as to whether _ follows. thank you. you asked the question as to whether the - follows. thank you. you asked the question as to whether the ecb i follows. thank you. you asked the i question as to whether the ecb was fit for— question as to whether the ecb was fit for purpose and strongly asserted that it is. can i comment on some _ asserted that it is. can i comment on some of— asserted that it is. can i comment on some of the issues raised are? we have a _ on some of the issues raised are? we have a long—standing desire, which started _ have a long—standing desire, which started very much from when tom joined _ started very much from when tom joined the — started very much from when tom joined the ecb as chief executive, that we _ joined the ecb as chief executive, that we wanted to make the game a game _ that we wanted to make the game a game for— that we wanted to make the game a game for everyone. there is a lot of work— game for everyone. there is a lot of work involved. a lot of initiatives have _ work involved. a lot of initiatives have been— work involved. a lot of initiatives have been taken. part of the process that we _ have been taken. part of the process that we have today is the set up what _ that we have today is the set up what we — that we have today is the set up what we call county partnership agreements with each of the first—class counties by which we regularly— first—class counties by which we regularly sit down with them as to whether— regularly sit down with them as to whether they are making the appropriate strides towards good governance and good standards, and those _ governance and good standards, and those are _ governance and good standards, and those are things when we can check on a regular— those are things when we can check on a regular basis how people are doing _ on a regular basis how people are doing i_ on a regular basis how people are doing. i have no doubt, and i can only— doing. i have no doubt, and i can only apologise to azeem rafiq and his family— only apologise to azeem rafiq and his family for the horrendous time he has _ his family for the horrendous time he has gone through, notjust when it happened but subsequently as welt _ it happened but subsequently as welt i_ it happened but subsequently as well. i want to leave you in no doubt — well. i want to leave you in no doubt that _ well. i want to leave you in no doubt that the game is absolutely filled with the determination to resolve — filled with the determination to resolve the issue of race in cricket _ resolve the issue of race in cricket |t— resolve the issue of race in cricket. , ., , cricket. it is all very well apologising _ cricket. it is all very well apologising to _ cricket. it is all very well apologising to mr- cricket. it is all very well apologising to mr rafiq, | cricket. it is all very well i apologising to mr rafiq, who cricket. it is all very well - apologising to mr rafiq, who have heard _ apologising to mr rafiq, who have heard apologies _ apologising to mr rafiq, who have heard apologies then _ apologising to mr rafiq, who have heard apologies then but - apologising to mr rafiq, who have heard apologies then but what i apologising to mr rafiq, who have i heard apologies then but what about the thousands — heard apologies then but what about the thousands of— heard apologies then but what about the thousands of asian _ heard apologies then but what about the thousands of asian kids - heard apologies then but what about the thousands of asian kids who i the thousands of asian kids who enter— the thousands of asian kids who enter the — the thousands of asian kids who enter the game _ the thousands of asian kids who enter the game and _ the thousands of asian kids who enter the game and do- the thousands of asian kids who enter the game and do not- the thousands of asian kids who i enter the game and do not actually make _ enter the game and do not actually make it. _ enter the game and do not actually make it, disproportionately? - enter the game and do not actually make it, disproportionately? it- enter the game and do not actually make it, disproportionately? it is l make it, disproportionately? it is allvery— make it, disproportionately? it is all very good _ make it, disproportionately? it is all very good talking _ make it, disproportionately? it is all very good talking about - all very good talking about initiatives _ all very good talking about initiatives and _ all very good talking about initiatives and bandying i all very good talking about i initiatives and bandying words around — initiatives and bandying words around but _ initiatives and bandying words around but the _ initiatives and bandying words around but the point - initiatives and bandying words around but the point of - initiatives and bandying words around but the point of the i initiatives and bandying words i around but the point of the matter is, 85% _ around but the point of the matter is, 85% of— around but the point of the matter is, 85% of kids— around but the point of the matter is, 85% of kids at _ around but the point of the matter is, 85% of kids at bradford - around but the point of the matter is, 85% of kids at bradford park. is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets— is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets are — is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets are of— is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets are of a _ is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets are of a south _ is, 85% of kids at bradford park mets are of a south asian i is, 85% of kids at bradford park- mets are of a south asian background and yet _ mets are of a south asian background and yet we _ mets are of a south asian background and yet we have — mets are of a south asian background and yet we have four _ mets are of a south asian background and yet we have four british—born - and yet we have four british—born asians_ and yet we have four british—born asians representing _ and yet we have four british—born asians representing yorkshire - and yet we have four british—born asians representing yorkshire in. and yet we have four british—born . asians representing yorkshire in the last decade — asians representing yorkshire in the last decade. what _ asians representing yorkshire in the last decade. what on _ asians representing yorkshire in the last decade. what on earth - asians representing yorkshire in the last decade. what on earth is - asians representing yorkshire in the last decade. what on earth is going| last decade. what on earth is going on 's _ last decade. what on earth is going on '5 you _ last decade. what on earth is going on 's you cannot _ last decade. what on earth is going on 's you cannot just _ last decade. what on earth is going on 's you cannotjust say— last decade. what on earth is going on 's you cannot just say that - last decade. what on earth is going on 's you cannot just say that the l on 's you cannot just say that the game _ on 's you cannot just say that the game is — on 's you cannot just say that the game is doing _ on 's you cannot just say that the game is doing this _ on 's you cannot just say that the game is doing this and _ on 's you cannot just say that the game is doing this and that, - on 's you cannot just say that the - game is doing this and that, because clearly, _ game is doing this and that, because clearly, you — game is doing this and that, because clearly, you are — game is doing this and that, because clearly, you are failing. _ game is doing this and that, because clearly, you are failing. we _ game is doing this and that, because clearly, you are failing.— clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but _ clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but i _ clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but i do _ clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but i do not _ clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but i do not believe - clearly, you are failing. we have to do better but i do not believe that| do better but i do not believe that the evidence is all bad in that space — the evidence is all bad in that space. we macro it has actually got worse _ space. we macro it has actually got worse i_ space. we macro it has actually got worse. i accept that there is a lot more _ worse. i accept that there is a lot more work— worse. i accept that there is a lot more work to do here. and i —— we have _ more work to do here. and i —— we have signs — more work to do here. and i —— we have signs in — more work to do here. and i —— we have signs in different parts of the country— have signs in different parts of the country where there are really good evidence _ country where there are really good evidence of best practice happening here, _ evidence of best practice happening here, and _ evidence of best practice happening here, and it is not fairto evidence of best practice happening here, and it is not fair to say that that is— here, and it is not fair to say that that is symptomatic of the entire country — that is symptomatic of the entire count . g , , , that is symptomatic of the entire count . , , , country. just in the biggest county with the most _ country. just in the biggest county with the most championships, - country. just in the biggest countyj with the most championships, and country. just in the biggest county - with the most championships, and the biggest _ with the most championships, and the biggest mass — with the most championships, and the biggest mass participation— with the most championships, and the biggest mass participation sporting. biggest mass participation sporting club in _ biggest mass participation sporting club in the — biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, _ biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, just— biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, just that _ biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, just that one - biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, just that one is- biggest mass participation sporting club in the uk, just that one is the| club in the uk, just that one is the one that _ club in the uk, just that one is the one that is — club in the uk, just that one is the one that is the _ club in the uk, just that one is the one that is the problem? - club in the uk, just that one is the one that is the problem? i'm“- club in the uk, just that one is the one that is the problem?— one that is the problem? i'm not sa in: one that is the problem? i'm not saying that- _ one that is the problem? i'm not saying that- i _ one that is the problem? i'm not saying that. i am _ one that is the problem? i'm not saying that. i am not _ one that is the problem? i'm not saying that. i am not refusing i one that is the problem? i'm not| saying that. i am not refusing any of the _ saying that. i am not refusing any of the evidence by the way. i am suggesting there is a lot more work to do. _ suggesting there is a lot more work to do. and — suggesting there is a lot more work to do, and the policies that we have put in _ to do, and the policies that we have put in place. — to do, and the policies that we have put in place, be that putting in place — put in place, be that putting in place at — put in place, be that putting in place at 1200 female south asian activators — place at 1200 female south asian activators to get females to play cricket _ activators to get females to play cricket in — activators to get females to play cricket in parts of the countries where — cricket in parts of the countries where we — cricket in parts of the countries where we previously haven't, urban cricket _ where we previously haven't, urban cricket centre such as we are opening _ cricket centre such as we are opening up around the country in parts _ opening up around the country in parts of— opening up around the country in parts of the environment where we don't~~ _ parts of the environment where we don't~~ kite— parts of the environment where we don't. .. ~ ., ., ., , don't. .. we will move on to clyde redford and _ don't. .. we will move on to clyde redford and kevin _ don't. .. we will move on to clyde redford and kevin brunning. - don't. .. we will move on to clyde redford and kevin brunning. he l don't. .. we will move on to clyde - redford and kevin brunning. he spoke about making — redford and kevin brunning. he spoke about making cricket _ redford and kevin brunning. he spoke about making cricket inclusive - redford and kevin brunning. he spoke about making cricket inclusive and - about making cricket inclusive and accessible which is very helpful, and you have set up an independent commission, that is the first point you make. what are you hoping to learn that we don't already know from that commission? —— clive efford. from that commission? -- clive efford. ~ from that commission? -- clive efford. ., _ . from that commission? -- clive efford. ~ ., , , . ., from that commission? -- clive efford. ., _ . ., ~ ., efford. we obviously want to know what is going _ efford. we obviously want to know what is going on — efford. we obviously want to know what is going on around _ efford. we obviously want to know what is going on around the - efford. we obviously want to know l what is going on around the country. why don't— what is going on around the country. why don't you know it 's for goodness' sake. for why don't you know it 's for goodness' sake.— why don't you know it 's for goodness' sake. for people like azeem who _ goodness' sake. for people like azeem who have _ goodness' sake. for people like azeem who have been - goodness' sake. for people like azeem who have been unable i goodness' sake. for people like | azeem who have been unable to disclose — azeem who have been unable to disclose what has been happening to them, _ disclose what has been happening to them, with— disclose what has been happening to them, with the commissioner has called _ them, with the commissioner has called now. — them, with the commissioner has called now, and has said i am looking — called now, and has said i am looking forward to seeing what the output _ looking forward to seeing what the output of _ looking forward to seeing what the output of that commission is. you cannot— output of that commission is. you cannot simply say we know what the answer _ cannot simply say we know what the answer is, _ cannot simply say we know what the answer is, and we will go and deal with it _ answer is, and we will go and deal with it that — answer is, and we will go and deal with it. that is part of it. but we must _ with it. that is part of it. but we must get — with it. that is part of it. but we must get evidence from around the country _ must get evidence from around the country. we need to set up the whistle—blowing lines that lord patel— whistle—blowing lines that lord patel has set up and get all the feedback we possibly can so that we know that _ feedback we possibly can so that we know that we understand the full extent _ know that we understand the full extent of— know that we understand the full extent of the problem. we know that we understand the full extent of the problem.— know that we understand the full extent of the problem. we know that there is mistrust _ extent of the problem. we know that there is mistrust of— extent of the problem. we know that there is mistrust of administrators i there is mistrust of administrators in organisations like ours, and tom did a lot of work on this after the black lives matter movement and the murder of george floyd, as we know that people struggle to come forward but we try to set up an independent body that could hold us to account on a report back and share independent findings that we can share with the game. it is clear that we haven't gone far or fast enough. we want to listen to a people and to azeem's earlier point, he requested that we did a good, strong, listening exercise and i'm pleased that the icc is there supporting us to do that work, and there is more for us to learn. you said that you _ there is more for us to learn. you said that you have _ there is more for us to learn. you said that you have introduced a game wide anti—discrimination code, when did you _ wide anti—discrimination code, when did you introduce that? at wide anti-discrimination code, when did you introduce that?— did you introduce that? at the start of this season, _ did you introduce that? at the start of this season, we _ did you introduce that? at the start of this season, we had _ of this season, we had anti—discrimination references within the code and that hardened it and allowed all sitting within our jurisdiction to fall under that rule, and it allowed us to have more powers and to hold people to account. �* . , , , ., . account. and what inspired you at that moment _ account. and what inspired you at that moment in _ account. and what inspired you at that moment in time _ account. and what inspired you at that moment in time that - account. and what inspired you at that moment in time that you - account. and what inspired you at - that moment in time that you needed an anti—discrimination, a new anti—discrimination code, because presumably you had one before that, because _ presumably you had one before that, because you are falling down on your duties— because you are falling down on your duties if— because you are falling down on your duties if you — because you are falling down on your duties if you didn't, so why did you need _ duties if you didn't, so why did you need to— duties if you didn't, so why did you need to revise it 's there was a hard, _ need to revise it 's there was a hard, explicit anti—determination carried _ hard, explicit anti—determination carried previously that you would be charged _ carried previously that you would be charged with bringing the game into disrepute _ charged with bringing the game into disrepute. and charged with bringing the game into disreute. �* ., . . disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary _ disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary for _ disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary for us _ disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary for us to _ disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary for us to be _ disrepute. and from what we heard it was necessary for us to be extremelyj was necessary for us to be extremely explicit and initiate a fuller, harder anti—discrimination code. the harder anti-discrimination code. the re ort harder anti—discrimination code. the report earlier on, which i interpret as expose — report earlier on, which i interpret as expose of racism in yorkshire cricket _ as expose of racism in yorkshire cricket but — as expose of racism in yorkshire cricket but others may take a different _ cricket but others may take a different view, but, it clearly exposed _ different view, but, it clearly exposed the lack of opportunity for south _ exposed the lack of opportunity for south asian cricketers in yorkshire cricket _ south asian cricketers in yorkshire cricket. what did the ecb do about that? _ cricket. what did the ecb do about that? ., , , ., ., ., that? there has been a huge amount that? there has been a huge amount that we have — that? there has been a huge amount that we have done, _ that? there has been a huge amount that we have done, the _ that? there has been a huge amount that we have done, the strategy - that we have done, the strategy inspiring generations, we began to create that in 2014. that addresses many inclusion initiatives across the game, from all underrepresented groups, not specificallyjust groups, not specifically just british groups, not specificallyjust british south ladies —— pretty south asians, we have a south asian action plan we are delivering against and we have seen positive numbers. we talked earlier, about the representation in england teams, but we have seen an increase of 7%, up to 28% of ethnicity in our boys' pathway so that we are starting to see data improve.— see data improve. doesn't have stats show that you _ see data improve. doesn't have stats show that you are _ see data improve. doesn't have stats show that you are more _ see data improve. doesn't have stats show that you are more likely - see data improve. doesn't have stats show that you are more likely to - show that you are more likely to represent — show that you are more likely to represent england if you come from a public— represent england if you come from a public school than from an ethnic nrinority— public school than from an ethnic minority background 's| public school than from an ethnic minority background '- public school than from an ethnic minority background 's i think that is from any _ minority background 's i think that is from any sport _ minority background 's i think that is from any sport but _ minority background 's i think that is from any sport but it _ minority background 's i think that is from any sport but it is - minority background 's i think that is from any sport but it is an - minority background 's i think that is from any sport but it is an issue j is from any sport but it is an issue in cricket. . . ,~ is from any sport but it is an issue in cricket-— in cricket. can i ask, if i went and looked at — in cricket. can i ask, if i went and looked at the _ in cricket. can i ask, if i went and looked at the data, _ in cricket. can i ask, if i went and looked at the data, the _ in cricket. can i ask, if i went and looked at the data, the fletcher i looked at the data, the fletcher report _ looked at the data, the fletcher report was 2014, quite a detailed report, _ report was 2014, quite a detailed report, the previous chairman was not aware — report, the previous chairman was not aware of the fletcher report, which _ not aware of the fletcher report, which was — not aware of the fletcher report, which was surprising, but if i was going _ which was surprising, but if i was going to — which was surprising, but if i was going to look at the statistics from 2014 untit— going to look at the statistics from 2014 until now, what difference would _ 2014 until now, what difference would i— 2014 until now, what difference would i find?— 2014 until now, what difference wouldifind? ., ., , . would i find? you would see quite a difference. — would i find? you would see quite a difference. a _ would i find? you would see quite a difference, a huge _ would i find? you would see quite a difference, a huge work _ would i find? you would see quite a difference, a huge work across - would i find? you would see quite a difference, a huge work across the l difference, a huge work across the curriculum base and improvement... where is the representation at senior— where is the representation at senior level? this is why we are here _ senior level? this is why we are here we — senior level? this is why we are here. we are getting lots of participation, azeem said it himself. _ participation, azeem said it himself, we are getting lots of participation at grassroots level, lots participation at grassroots level, tots of _ participation at grassroots level, lots of young people playing cricket, _ lots of young people playing cricket, from the south asian community, but the issue really is that they— community, but the issue really is that they are not the —— not getting through— that they are not the —— not getting through to — that they are not the —— not getting through to the elite, the higher levels _ through to the elite, the higher levels of— through to the elite, the higher levels of cricket in yorkshire as we have _ levels of cricket in yorkshire as we have learned today, but from what we have learned today, but from what we have heard, _ have learned today, but from what we have heard, if we look anywhere across _ have heard, if we look anywhere across the — have heard, if we look anywhere across the cricketing hierarchy we would _ across the cricketing hierarchy we would see — across the cricketing hierarchy we would see the same, in other counties? _ would see the same, in other counties? so why haven't we seen that change? we counties? so why haven't we seen that change?— that change? we are drooling into some of the _ that change? we are drooling into some of the real _ that change? we are drooling into some of the real issues _ that change? we are drooling into some of the real issues that - that change? we are drooling into some of the real issues that have | some of the real issues that have been _ some of the real issues that have been brought— some of the real issues that have been brought around _ some of the real issues that have been brought around through - some of the real issues that have - been brought around through azeem's testimony— been brought around through azeem's testimony and — been brought around through azeem's testimony and the _ been brought around through azeem's testimony and the work _ been brought around through azeem's testimony and the work that _ been brought around through azeem's testimony and the work that has - been brought around through azeem's testimony and the work that has been| testimony and the work that has been done through — testimony and the work that has been done through the _ testimony and the work that has been done through the report _ testimony and the work that has been done through the report and - testimony and the work that has been done through the report and indeed . done through the report and indeed we witt— done through the report and indeed we will follow— done through the report and indeed we will follow through _ done through the report and indeed we will follow through the - done through the report and indeed we will follow through the ecb - we will follow through the ecb investigation _ we will follow through the ecb investigation which _ we will follow through the ecb investigation which is - we will follow through the ecb l investigation which is happening now, _ investigation which is happening now. but— investigation which is happening now. but i— investigation which is happening now, but i think— investigation which is happening now, but i think ultimately, - investigation which is happening now, but i think ultimately, we| investigation which is happening - now, but i think ultimately, we need to start _ now, but i think ultimately, we need to start to— now, but i think ultimately, we need to start to took— now, but i think ultimately, we need to start to look at _ now, but i think ultimately, we need to start to look at the _ now, but i think ultimately, we need to start to look at the dressing - to start to look at the dressing room — to start to look at the dressing room cutture _ to start to look at the dressing room culture through - to start to look at the dressing room culture through the - to start to look at the dressing. room culture through the country to start to look at the dressing - room culture through the country and indeed _ room culture through the country and indeed the _ room culture through the country and indeed the culture _ room culture through the country and indeed the culture around _ room culture through the country and indeed the culture around the - indeed the culture around the professional— indeed the culture around the professional game _ indeed the culture around the. professional game specifically, indeed the culture around the - professional game specifically, and how we _ professional game specifically, and how we are — professional game specifically, and how we are looking _ professional game specifically, and how we are looking at _ professional game specifically, and how we are looking at our- professional game specifically, and. how we are looking at our pathways. we do _ how we are looking at our pathways. we do have — how we are looking at our pathways. we do have some _ how we are looking at our pathways. we do have some positive _ how we are looking at our pathways. we do have some positive evidencel we do have some positive evidence around _ we do have some positive evidence around the — we do have some positive evidence around the boys' _ we do have some positive evidence around the boys' pathway— we do have some positive evidence around the boys' pathway data, - around the boys' pathway data, foitowing — around the boys' pathway data, following the _ around the boys' pathway data, following the imposition - around the boys' pathway data, following the imposition of- around the boys' pathway data, | following the imposition of both mate _ following the imposition of both mate and — following the imposition of both male and female _ following the imposition of both male and female talent - following the imposition of both l male and female talent managers following the imposition of both - male and female talent managers that the ecb _ male and female talent managers that the ecb which — male and female talent managers that the ecb which we _ male and female talent managers that the ecb which we didn't _ male and female talent managers that the ecb which we didn't previously- the ecb which we didn't previously have what— the ecb which we didn't previously have what we _ the ecb which we didn't previously have what we now _ the ecb which we didn't previously have what we now do, _ the ecb which we didn't previously have what we now do, there - the ecb which we didn't previously have what we now do, there is - the ecb which we didn't previously have what we now do, there is a l the ecb which we didn't previously. have what we now do, there is a huge focus _ have what we now do, there is a huge focus on _ have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, — have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, from _ have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, from the _ have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, from the ecb. - have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, from the ecb. it - have what we now do, there is a huge focus on this, from the ecb. it does l focus on this, from the ecb. it does take time _ focus on this, from the ecb. it does take time to — focus on this, from the ecb. it does take time to trickle _ focus on this, from the ecb. it does take time to trickle through - take time to trickle through the network. — take time to trickle through the network. and _ take time to trickle through the network, and i— take time to trickle through the network, and i believe - take time to trickle through the network, and i believe this- take time to trickle through the network, and i believe this is. take time to trickle through the - network, and i believe this is where we need _ network, and i believe this is where we need help— network, and i believe this is where we need help to _ network, and i believe this is where we need help to enable _ network, and i believe this is where we need help to enable our- network, and i believe this is where| we need help to enable our network to reflect _ we need help to enable our network to reflect the — we need help to enable our network to reflect the accountability- we need help to enable our network to reflect the accountability of- we need help to enable our network to reflect the accountability of the l to reflect the accountability of the ecb has _ to reflect the accountability of the ecb has and — to reflect the accountability of the ecb has and feels _ to reflect the accountability of the ecb has and feels in _ to reflect the accountability of the ecb has and feels in this - to reflect the accountability of the ecb has and feels in this space, . ecb has and feels in this space, with— ecb has and feels in this space, with the — ecb has and feels in this space, with the control— ecb has and feels in this space, with the control to _ ecb has and feels in this space, with the control to impose - ecb has and feels in this space, with the control to impose it. i ecb has and feels in this space, i with the control to impose it. my last with the control to impose it. last question because with the control to impose it. iii- last question because others with the control to impose it.- last question because others want to come _ last question because others want to come in. _ last question because others want to come in, and this is "kevin" the racist _ come in, and this is "kevin" the racist use — come in, and this is "kevin" the racist use of— come in, and this is "kevin" the racist use of the name, kevin. it has been — racist use of the name, kevin. it has been alleged that that is widespread, notjust used in yorkshire _ widespread, notjust used in yorkshire but at the elite level, it has been — yorkshire but at the elite level, it has been in — yorkshire but at the elite level, it has been in common use. has the ecb been made _ has been in common use. has the ecb been made aware of the use of kevin as a racist— been made aware of the use of kevin as a racist term at senior level or any other— as a racist term at senior level or any other racist incidents that have been _ any other racist incidents that have been reported to it that haven't been _ been reported to it that haven't been acted upon? the been reported to it that haven't been acted upon?— been reported to it that haven't been acted upon? the first time i became aware — been acted upon? the first time i became aware of— been acted upon? the first time i became aware of the _ been acted upon? the first time i became aware of the slur- been acted upon? the first time i became aware of the slur was - been acted upon? the first time i became aware of the slur was in l been acted upon? the first time i i became aware of the slur was in the report _ became aware of the slur was in the report it _ became aware of the slur was in the report it witt— became aware of the slur was in the report. it will now— became aware of the slur was in the report. it will now form _ became aware of the slur was in the report. it will now form part - became aware of the slur was in the report. it will now form part of - became aware of the slur was in the report. it will now form part of the i report. it will now form part of the ecb investigation _ report. it will now form part of the ecb investigation and _ report. it will now form part of the ecb investigation and it _ report. it will now form part of the ecb investigation and it will- report. it will now form part of the ecb investigation and it will be - ecb investigation and it will be dealt _ ecb investigation and it will be dealt with— ecb investigation and it will be dealt with in _ ecb investigation and it will be dealt with in the _ ecb investigation and it will be dealt with in the same - ecb investigation and it will be dealt with in the same way- ecb investigation and it will bei dealt with in the same way that ecb investigation and it will be - dealt with in the same way that all atiegations — dealt with in the same way that all allegations are _ dealt with in the same way that all allegations are being _ dealt with in the same way that all allegations are being dealt - dealt with in the same way that all allegations are being dealt with i allegations are being dealt with through— allegations are being dealt with through that _ allegations are being dealt with through that investigation. - allegations are being dealt with through that investigation. i- allegations are being dealt withi through that investigation. i had not heard — through that investigation. i had not heard of— through that investigation. i had not heard of that _ through that investigation. i had not heard of that statement - through that investigation. i had i not heard of that statement before through that investigation. i had - not heard of that statement before i read the _ not heard of that statement before i read the report _ not heard of that statement before i read the report-— read the report. what will you do if ou find read the report. what will you do if you find that _ read the report. what will you do if you find that england _ read the report. what will you do if you find that england players - read the report. what will you do if you find that england players had l you find that england players had been using slurs? this you find that england players had been using slurs?— been using slurs? this is really important _ been using slurs? this is really important that _ been using slurs? this is really important that we _ been using slurs? this is really important that we have - been using slurs? this is really important that we have a - been using slurs? this is really - important that we have a regulatory process _ important that we have a regulatory process which — important that we have a regulatory process which has _ important that we have a regulatory process which has with _ important that we have a regulatory process which has with it _ important that we have a regulatory process which has with it a - important that we have a regulatory process which has with it a report. process which has with it a report which _ process which has with it a report which witt— process which has with it a report which will go _ process which has with it a report which will go to _ process which has with it a report which will go to the... _ process which has with it a report which will go to the... and- process which has with it a report which will go to the. . ._ which will go to the... and what about ollie _ which will go to the... and what about ollie robinson? - which will go to the. .. and what about ollie robinson? for- which will go to the... and what. about ollie robinson? for example somebody using this phrase because they don't want to pronounce the proper names of individuals, and then for example jokingly, proper names of individuals, and then for examplejokingly, one has proper names of individuals, and then for example jokingly, one has a black dog that their name after this, what should happen to them, do you want them in the english team? of course not. and i would say that the difference _ of course not. and i would say that the difference between _ of course not. and i would say that the difference between the - the difference between the allegation— the difference between the allegation you _ the difference between the allegation you are - the difference between the allegation you are alleging | the difference between the . allegation you are alleging at the difference between the - allegation you are alleging at the ollie robinson— allegation you are alleging at the ollie robinson situation - allegation you are alleging at the ollie robinson situation is- allegation you are alleging at the ollie robinson situation is at - allegation you are alleging at the ollie robinson situation is at one of them — ollie robinson situation is at one of them was _ ollie robinson situation is at one of them was wearing _ ollie robinson situation is at one of them was wearing an - ollie robinson situation is at one of them was wearing an englandi ollie robinson situation is at one - of them was wearing an england shirt at the _ of them was wearing an england shirt at the time _ of them was wearing an england shirt at the time he— of them was wearing an england shirt at the time. . . ' of them was wearing an england shirt at the time. ., , ' ., of them was wearing an england shirt at the time. ' ., ' at the time. he was 14 or 15 when he made the comments? _ at the time. he was 14 or 15 when he made the comments? 18. _ at the time. he was 14 or 15 when he made the comments? 18. the - made the comments? 18. the independent commission on equity in cricket, _ independent commission on equity in cricket, witt— independent commission on equity in cricket, will you commit to produce its findings — cricket, will you commit to produce its findings when it reports? as art its findings when it reports? as part of its findings when it reports? part of the its findings when it reports? as part of the action plan we have listed — part of the action plan we have listed understanding _ part of the action plan we have listed understanding the - listed understanding the recommendations. - listed understanding the recommendations. ., ,, , ., ., , recommendations. thank you. -- has the ecb done — recommendations. thank you. -- has the ecb done enough _ recommendations. thank you. -- has the ecb done enough to _ recommendations. thank you. -- has the ecb done enough to combat - recommendations. thank you. -- has. the ecb done enough to combat racism -- racism, _ the ecb done enough to combat racism -- racism, mr— the ecb done enough to combat racism —— racism, mr hutton said no, then he went— —— racism, mr hutton said no, then he went on— —— racism, mr hutton said no, then he went on to — —— racism, mr hutton said no, then he went on to talk about the initiatives that the ecb had conducted the report into yorkshire county— conducted the report into yorkshire county cricket club, was he wrong to say that _ county cricket club, was he wrong to say that you — county cricket club, was he wrong to say that you hadn't done enough on this? _ say that you hadn't done enough on this? , .. say that you hadn't done enough on this? , ., ., ., .. say that you hadn't done enough on this? , ., ., ., ., .. this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, _ this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, it— this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, it is— this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, it is a _ this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, it is a scourge - this? until you have done enough to eradicate racism, it is a scourge on | eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport— eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let _ eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let alone _ eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let alone cricket, _ eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let alone cricket, it _ eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let alone cricket, it is - eradicate racism, it is a scourge on sport let alone cricket, it is a - sport let alone cricket, it is a scourge _ sport let alone cricket, it is a scourge on— sport let alone cricket, it is a scourge on society, - sport let alone cricket, it is a scourge on society, and - sport let alone cricket, it is a scourge on society, and we l sport let alone cricket, it is a l scourge on society, and we are taking — scourge on society, and we are taking the _ scourge on society, and we are taking the steps _ scourge on society, and we are taking the steps we _ scourge on society, and we are taking the steps we have - scourge on society, and we are taking the steps we have set . scourge on society, and we are i taking the steps we have set out today. _ taking the steps we have set out today. whether— taking the steps we have set out today, whether that _ taking the steps we have set out today, whether that is— taking the steps we have set out today, whether that is around i today, whether that is around governance _ today, whether that is around governance reform, - today, whether that is around governance reform, about- today, whether that is around - governance reform, about launching the anti—discrimination _ governance reform, about launching the anti—discrimination code, - the anti—discrimination code, whether— the anti—discrimination code, whether it _ the anti—discrimination code, whether it is _ the anti—discrimination code, whether it is sanctions - the anti—discrimination code, i whether it is sanctions against yorkshire _ whether it is sanctions against yorkshire or— whether it is sanctions against yorkshire or about— whether it is sanctions against yorkshire or about now- whether it is sanctions against - yorkshire or about now launching... so your— yorkshire or about now launching... so your answer is _ yorkshire or about now launching... so your answer is you _ yorkshire or about now launching... so your answer is you can _ yorkshire or about now launching... so your answer is you can never- yorkshire or about now launching... so your answer is you can never doi so your answer is you can never do enough _ so your answer is you can never do enough to— so your answer is you can never do enough to eradicate racism. can i go back to _ enough to eradicate racism. can i go back to the — enough to eradicate racism. can i go back to the report in itself and the process— back to the report in itself and the process that was conducted at yorkshire _ process that was conducted at yorkshire county cricket club? were you aware _ yorkshire county cricket club? were you aware of what was going on around — you aware of what was going on around the _ you aware of what was going on around the change in the terms of reference — around the change in the terms of reference of that report, that was changed. — reference of that report, that was changed, halfway through, so that the panel— changed, halfway through, so that the panel was going to take it upon itself— the panel was going to take it upon itself to— the panel was going to take it upon itself to not allow those investigators to make a determination on that? i investigators to make a determination on that? i was not aware of that. _ determination on that? i was not aware of that. effectively - determination on that? i was not aware of that. effectively what i determination on that? i was not i aware of that. effectively what you did was sanction _ aware of that. effectively what you did was sanction the _ aware of that. effectively what you did was sanction the process - aware of that. effectively what you did was sanction the process by i did was sanction the process by which _ did was sanction the process by which yorkshire county cricket club are going _ which yorkshire county cricket club are going to produce a report, which you were _ are going to produce a report, which you were then going to overlook as a regulator. _ you were then going to overlook as a regulator, regulatory body. take 'ud . ment regulator, regulatory body. take judgment on- — regulator, regulatory body. take judgment on. sign _ regulator, regulatory body. take judgment on. sign matter and yet this was— judgment on. sign matter and yet this was a — judgment on. sign matter and yet this was a process _ judgment on. sign matter and yet this was a process that _ judgment on. sign matter and yet this was a process that yorkshire i this was a process that yorkshire cricket _ this was a process that yorkshire cricket club _ this was a process that yorkshire cricket club were _ this was a process that yorkshire cricket club were able _ this was a process that yorkshire cricket club were able to - this was a process that yorkshire cricket club were able to and i this was a process that yorkshire | cricket club were able to and did, in fact, _ cricket club were able to and did, in fact, -- — cricket club were able to and did, in fact. --— in fact, -- that they did in fact withhold that _ in fact, -- that they did in fact withhold that report. - in fact, -- that they did in fact withhold that report. how- in fact, -- that they did in fact withhold that report. how can | in fact, -- that they did in fact i withhold that report. how can you sanction— withhold that report. how can you sanction a — withhold that report. how can you sanction a process where somebody is going _ sanction a process where somebody is going to _ sanction a process where somebody is going to produce a report which you are then _ going to produce a report which you are then going to passjudgment on when _ are then going to passjudgment on when it— are then going to passjudgment on when it is— are then going to passjudgment on when it is a — are then going to passjudgment on when it is a process that allows them _ when it is a process that allows them to— when it is a process that allows them to actually withhold the report from you? _ them to actually withhold the report from you? | them to actually withhold the report from ou? .. �* ~' . from you? i don't think there is an hint from you? i don't think there is anything wrong _ from you? i don't think there is anything wrong in _ from you? i don't think there is anything wrong in allowing i from you? i don't think there is i anything wrong in allowing yorkshire to withhold _ anything wrong in allowing yorkshire to withhold the _ anything wrong in allowing yorkshire to withhold the report, _ anything wrong in allowing yorkshire to withhold the report, it _ anything wrong in allowing yorkshire to withhold the report, it wasn't, i to withhold the report, it wasn't, in order— to withhold the report, it wasn't, in order that _ to withhold the report, it wasn't, in order that we _ to withhold the report, it wasn't, in order that we could _ to withhold the report, it wasn't, in order that we could regulate. i in order that we could regulate. sign _ in order that we could regulate. sign matter— in order that we could regulate. sign matter you _ in order that we could regulate. sign matter you didn't- in order that we could regulate. sign matter you didn't say- in order that we could regulate. sign matter you didn't say to i in order that we could regulate. i sign matter you didn't say to them at the _ sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, — sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if— sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if you _ sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if you are _ sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if you are going - sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if you are going to i sign matter you didn't say to them at the time, if you are going to do| at the time, if you are going to do this, _ at the time, if you are going to do this, if— at the time, if you are going to do this, if you — at the time, if you are going to do this, if you are _ at the time, if you are going to do this, if you are going _ at the time, if you are going to do this, if you are going to— at the time, if you are going to do this, if you are going to do- at the time, if you are going to do this, if you are going to do the i this, if you are going to do the report— this, if you are going to do the report you _ this, if you are going to do the report you must _ this, if you are going to do the report you must show - this, if you are going to do the report you must show it - this, if you are going to do the report you must show it to i this, if you are going to do the report you must show it to us. j this, if you are going to do the i report you must show it to us. we exected report you must show it to us. expected to have sight of it after three _ expected to have sight of it after three months. clearly today the process — three months. clearly today the process would not be to just let them _ process would not be to just let them do — process would not be to just let them do the report. we would do the report— them do the report. we would do the report and _ them do the report. we would do the report and investigation ourselves as welt _ report and investigation ourselves as well. .. ., report and investigation ourselves aswell. ., ., ., report and investigation ourselves aswell. ., ., , as well. you are sold a pup, basically. — as well. you are sold a pup, basically, weren't _ as well. you are sold a pup, basically, weren't you? i as well. you are sold a pup, i basically, weren't you? yorkshire as well. you are sold a pup, - basically, weren't you? yorkshire we have found not _ basically, weren't you? yorkshire we have found not only _ basically, weren't you? yorkshire we have found not only that _ basically, weren't you? yorkshire we have found not only that but - basically, weren't you? yorkshire we have found not only that but from i have found not only that but from the chair that it was institutionally racist but also an an trustworthy organisation whose word cannot be trusted. i think the handling of the report indicates — i think the handling of the report indicates there are certain issues around _ indicates there are certain issues around institutional racism in yorkshire _ around institutional racism in yorkshire. the content tops the culture — yorkshire. the content tops the culture and the culture of the game which _ culture and the culture of the game which needs to be thoroughly dealt with across more dressing rooms than 'ust with across more dressing rooms than just yorkshire county cricket club as we _ just yorkshire county cricket club as we have — just yorkshire county cricket club as we have heard through testimony this afternoon.— as we have heard through testimony this afternoon. when mr hutton said earlier on and _ this afternoon. when mr hutton said earlier on and assented _ this afternoon. when mr hutton said earlier on and assented to _ this afternoon. when mr hutton said earlier on and assented to the i earlier on and assented to the proposition— earlier on and assented to the proposition that _ earlier on and assented to the proposition that yorkshire i earlier on and assented to the proposition that yorkshire is l earlier on and assented to the i proposition that yorkshire is an institutionally— proposition that yorkshire is an institutionally racist _ proposition that yorkshire is an i institutionally racist organisation, are you _ institutionally racist organisation, are you agreeing _ institutionally racist organisation, are you agreeing with— institutionally racist organisation, are you agreeing with that - institutionally racist organisation, are you agreeing with that not i institutionally racist organisation, i are you agreeing with that not with that? _ are you agreeing with that not with that? �* ,_ . that? i'm saying that the handling... _ that? i'm saying that the handling... i— that? i'm saying that the handling... i had - that? i'm saying that the handling... i had to i that? i'm saying that the handling... i had to say i that? i'm saying that the i handling... i had to say that that? i'm saying that the - handling... i had to say thatjust handling... i had to say that 'ust now but i am i

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