Transcripts For BBCNEWS Ros Atkins on... The Fight For... 20240709

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let's ta ke let's take you back to glasgow, where delegates have reassembled in the main hall at the glasgow convention centre for the much heralded plenary session which was due to start some hours ago. my colleague christian fraser is in glasgow for us. this is a hopeful sign. glasgow for us. this is a hopeful sin. , , ., ., glasgow for us. this is a hopeful sign. yes, i understand from people millin: sign. yes, i understand from people milling around _ sign. yes, i understand from people milling around behind _ sign. yes, i understand from people milling around behind me _ sign. yes, i understand from people milling around behind me that - sign. yes, i understand from people milling around behind me that an i milling around behind me that an agreement is imminent. in fact, just behind me, there is a podium. cameras have started to gather around it. ithink cameras have started to gather around it. i think we are expecting alok sharma might come and make some sort of formal statement to all the delegates out here in the main hall outside the main plenary room. you can see there is a phalanx of cameramen. i don't know what he is going to say and how different it will be to they said on the stage, where they will reconvene shortly. but if you are looking at the same pictures i am looking at, i can see alok sharma in intense conversation with the chinese negotiator, the leading chinese negotiator. john kerry has just been seen talking to the chinese delegation as well. some interesting news in the last few minutes, we have heard from reuters that the us, china and the eu are in talks with india tonight, the indian delegation, about an accelerated phasing out of coal in india. if you were with us earlier, when they were talking about the text, india said they didn't much like the balance in they didn't much like the balance in the text when it came to that critical section about coal, the phasing out of unabated coal. the accelerated phasing out of inefficient subsidies. they said the developing countries should be given longer to do that. some people scratch their head at that, because actually what india has put in train through the course of this summit is quite an accelerated target, up to 2030 for renewable technologies, so may be given that a deal was struck with south africa earlier in the week, there was talk in the room about whether they could do something similarfor about whether they could do something similar for india. about whether they could do something similarfor india. that might explain of the discussions ongoing on the side of the room. what i understand from talking to people here, while the lawyers are going over the texts, the legal scrubbing of the text to make sure everything is legally sound, and don't forget there are three different texts, one relating to kyoto, one to paris, and the new one, cop26 as it is known, they will go through all of that, and then what you will see on the stage is alok sharma going through each one and giving a formal agreement of what has been put down in text in those documents. we are waiting for alok sharma to retake his seat at the stage. alok sharma to retake his seat at the staue. ., ., ~ alok sharma to retake his seat at the staue. ., . ~ ., the stage. you were talking a little earlier about _ the stage. you were talking a little earlier about the _ the stage. you were talking a little earlier about the gradual _ the stage. you were talking a little | earlier about the gradual expanding of the bit in brackets, the contentious parts of this text in the course of this last couple of days, and certainly overnight. are we now at a stage where there is an accepted text, even if individual countries are still baulking at some of the language, that it has been voted through, in effect? yes. of the language, that it has been voted through, in effect? yes, well, he said when _ voted through, in effect? yes, well, he said when he _ voted through, in effect? yes, well, he said when he opened _ voted through, in effect? yes, well, he said when he opened the - voted through, in effect? yes, well, l he said when he opened the informal stop taking about three hours ago that the text was clean. i think what he was relating to there was the cop26 document. the brackets have all disappeared from that text in the third draught. i will come back to that in a second. there are still brackets, would you believe, around sections of the paris agreement, which have still not been ironed out, particularly related to carbon, the transparency rules in the paris agreement. that conversation will continue. alok sharma said in his view this compromise document they have here will, in the end, lead to the full adoption of the paris agreement. so he says there are definitive steps in the cop26 document that will facilitate that paris agreement. separate to that, the point i was making about india is they could have pulled the rug... they don't particularly like this section on coal and subsidies. strictly speaking, given they are such a large nation, if they really wanted to, to upend entire discussion, they could do. that may be explained is why this is ideal is being agreed between the us, eu and china with india at the moment, to get them over the line. what has really unfolded over the last two and a half hours, it was supposed to be a quick process, the plenary we have just had, but they let everybody talk. they wanted to show india that, actually, although not all parties were satisfied with everything here, they were accepting it, and actually they were accepting it, and actually they were accepting it, and actually they were isolating india in giving their green light to what alok sharma had put before them. really the politicking over the last two and a half hours. very interesting looking at these pictures. alok sharma and the chinese delegation, as you were saying. but i also saw john kerry very animated, much shaking of heads with european union negotiator. in a sense, this is a moment where everybody i get is just trying to talk through some of the contentious bits, so that nobody suddenly in the middle of the meeting stands up and says, hang on a minute, i didn't think i'd agreed to that? exactly. you don't want to have egg on your face when someone says, i'm sorry, we are not in agreement here. so yes, i think they will be doing a lot of canvassing on the floor at the moment to find out if there are any hold outs left. aside from that, certain countries don't agree with parts of the text, and they may want certain full stops changed and maybe that can be done without rewriting all of it. there will be conversations on going, particularly with the and the chinese, john kerry and mr xi particularly with the and the chinese, john kerry and mr x i and the chinese delegation, laying the groundwork for president biden and president xi to talk about climate. it is a little bit frustrating that they are wearing facemasks, because we could get an idea of what they might be discussing. it was really interesting watching john kerry a little earlier, because i think he has gone as far as he could possibly go has gone as far as he could possibly 9° by has gone as far as he could possibly go by the looks of it. people were trying to engage him in conversation, people from the g 77 countries, the developing countries who want more on the finance elements of the text. almost manhandling part of his delegation into the conversation so he could walk away, because some of these conversations are awkward. if he has not been given the chance to go further byjoe biden. we are watching alok sharma go back to the podium. we will see if he is about to... i don't think he is about to reopen itjust yet, but people are starting to take their seats so maybe we should watch this, as alok sharma goes back to his position. we are going to resume in a couple of minutes — some last minute conversations ongoing at the moment betweenjohn kerry and the cop presidency. people starting to retake their seats. we are now going into the formal part of the evening, the formal adoption of the evening, the formal adoption of the evening, the formal adoption of the texts. remember there are three texts they are going to be talking about, kyoto, the paris agreement and cop26. so when you see the hammer come down, it doesn't necessarily mean proceedings are over. they will bring the hammer down on each and every document if they have a formal agreement. it is they have a formal agreement. it is the nature of a cop summit that even right down to the wire, you get people in conversations about parts they don't particularly like. someone said to me that through this process, it's a little bit like the archetypal bazaar where people are haggling trying to get a last—minute adjustments. but equally, the duration of it, the exhaustion that is writ large on some of the faces here, they have been here for two weeks negotiating long into the night, you have to have a bit of that as well, because that is what carries it over the line at the end of the day. and you need a bit of that sometimes force the issue. 0ne that sometimes force the issue. one of the texts, just pointing out to the people gathered around him, alok sharma, clearly there is still some concern. quite an animated conversation, this. john kerry has been involved in it, in part. so we will wait and see if we get any idea as to what is going on.— will wait and see if we get any idea as to what is going on. what's your assessment _ as to what is going on. what's your assessment of _ as to what is going on. what's your assessment of how _ as to what is going on. what's your assessment of how this _ as to what is going on. what's your assessment of how this last - as to what is going on. what's your assessment of how this last stage l as to what is going on. what's your. assessment of how this last stage of the process has gone? it's often said, isn't it, that you never get a deal until right at the end of these things, no matter how much work you do at the beginning. you can't avoid that last period of intense negotiation, which we saw at this conference overnight.— negotiation, which we saw at this conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very — conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very much — conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very much the _ conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very much the case. - conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very much the case. to - conference overnight. yeah, i think that's very much the case. to be i that's very much the case. to be honest, what i understand went on overnight was that they went until the early hours of the morning. the text actually wasn't produced until eight o'clock this morning. and they didn't come back together until much later than had been scheduled. they had been due to meet at ten o'clock this morning, in fact the informal plenary session didn't start until about 2:30pm. there have been ongoing negotiations through the day. an adviser to the minister of finance from the vulnerable 20 group of members, thank you for being patient with us while we focus on what's happening in the room... we heard quite a lot of talk in the last couple of hours from particularly the g 77 nations, we heard from guinea, golborne, who don't like the state of the finance in the texts. don't like the state of the finance in the texts-— don't like the state of the finance in the texts. what is the feeling in the room at _ in the texts. what is the feeling in the room at the _ in the texts. what is the feeling in the room at the moment? - in the texts. what is the feeling in the room at the moment? cop26| in the texts. what is the feeling in i the room at the moment? cop26 has failed _ the room at the moment? cop26 has failed to— the room at the moment? cop26 has failed to deliver a pack commensurate to the state of emergency we are in. it is clear with_ emergency we are in. it is clear with the — emergency we are in. it is clear with the lack of finance delivery, so i with the lack of finance delivery, so i think— with the lack of finance delivery, so i think it's a mix of knowing we have _ so i think it's a mix of knowing we have to _ so i think it's a mix of knowing we have to move forward but at the same time lets— have to move forward but at the same time let's prepare for the next cop. so there _ time let's prepare for the next cop. so there is— time let's prepare for the next cop. so there is a — time let's prepare for the next cop. so there is a spirit of compromise in the room. i suppose the key word is dialogue, about loss and damage. is that sufficient? is there enough trust in the room that the dialogue will produce a financial instrument that will help these countries? actually, we need specificity that says by— actually, we need specificity that says by the next cop we will have a financial_ says by the next cop we will have a financial mechanism. germany has 'ust financial mechanism. germany has just contributed 10 million euros. we have — just contributed 10 million euros. we have philanthropy is contributing 3 million _ we have philanthropy is contributing 3 million as well. so hopefully there — 3 million as well. so hopefully there is— 3 million as well. so hopefully there is clarity that by the next cop that — there is clarity that by the next cop that we deliver a financing mechanism for loss and damage. we are mechanism for loss and damage. we. are 'ust mechanism for loss and damage. - are just watching events in glasgow, focusing on the final hours of the cop it. if you are just focusing on the final hours of the cop it. if you arejustjoining us, we are in a pause in glasgow and it is a recess in the main hall of the cop26 summit. sarahjane is with me from the minister of finance for the vulnerable 20 group. we were talking about the text that is before the delegates in the room behind us. do you think from the members you have spoken to, that they will formally accept this when alok sharma takes the stage? i accept this when alok sharma takes the state? ., accept this when alok sharma takes the state? ~ ., accept this when alok sharma takes the state? ~ . , the stage? i think the agreement is that we proceed _ the stage? i think the agreement is that we proceed understanding - the stage? i think the agreement is that we proceed understanding that this is— that we proceed understanding that this is not— that we proceed understanding that this is not enough to deal with the emergency we are in. we heard from the maldives, we heard this from a lot of— the maldives, we heard this from a lot of small— the maldives, we heard this from a lot of small islands development states _ lot of small islands development states. but we have to be better and we have _ states. but we have to be better and we have to _ states. but we have to be better and we have to be ready for the next cop to deliver _ we have to be ready for the next cop to deliver an — we have to be ready for the next cop to deliver an emergency pack, which this one _ to deliver an emergency pack, which this one fails to deliver.— this one fails to deliver. there is a process. _ this one fails to deliver. there is a process, isn't— this one fails to deliver. there is a process, isn't there? - this one fails to deliver. there is a process, isn't there? there - this one fails to deliver. there is a process, isn't there? there is| a process, isn't there? there is money for mitigation, adaptation, and for loss and damage. would you agree there is greater balance in the text now for adaptation at least? 50 the text now for adaptation at least? , ., , ., least? so there is an improvement and it is the _ least? so there is an improvement and it is the uk— least? so there is an improvement and it is the uk cop _ least? so there is an improvement and it is the uk cop presidency's l and it is the uk cop presidency's success, — and it is the uk cop presidency's success, howeverwe and it is the uk cop presidency's success, however we can't wait until 2025 to _ success, however we can't wait until 2025 to have — success, however we can't wait until 2025 to have the outcome, adaptation have to _ 2025 to have the outcome, adaptation have to he _ 2025 to have the outcome, adaptation have to be doubled by next year. just to _ have to be doubled by next year. just to he — have to be doubled by next year. just to be clear, you are saying when they are talking about a doubling of adaptation finance, that is somewhere in the future, and of course people will recognise the fact that the $100 billion which was supposed to be produced this year still hasn't materialised fully? right, and the trajectory of how that would be delivered is also quite _ that would be delivered is also quite unclear. so by next year, and early _ quite unclear. so by next year, and early next — quite unclear. so by next year, and early next year we need to work on ensuring _ early next year we need to work on ensuring that it is clear, so the trust _ ensuring that it is clear, so the trust in — ensuring that it is clear, so the trust in the _ ensuring that it is clear, so the trust in the paris regime is rebuilt _ trust in the paris regime is rebuilt. ~ ., trust in the paris regime is rebuilt. ~ . ., , ., rebuilt. what about the elements of that $100 billion, _ rebuilt. what about the elements of that $100 billion, which _ rebuilt. what about the elements of that $100 billion, which is _ rebuilt. what about the elements of that $100 billion, which is supposed arrive next year? how much of that is grants and what is the concern among your members about the loan element of it? the among your members about the loan element of it?— element of it? the bulk of it is loans at this _ element of it? the bulk of it is loans at this point. _ element of it? the bulk of it is loans at this point. the - element of it? the bulk of it is | loans at this point. the concern element of it? the bulk of it is i loans at this point. the concern is sustainability, many

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