that and i think we can but we have to do it in a way that is safer. in southend, residents gathered outside the civic centre for a minutes silence, to remember sir david. later this evening, the residents of leigh—on—sea will also be holding a candlelit vigil, in memory of their mp. also this hour - questions are asked about how a covid pcr testing lab, that recorded thousands of inaccurate results, won a multi—million pound government contract. uncovering the secrets of the solar system — a new nasa mission aims to learn more about how the planets were created. and coming up in half an hour — it's the media show. good afternoon. the prime minister, borisjohnson, and the leader of the opposition, sir keir starmer, have laid flowers together at the site of the fatal stabbing of the mp, sir david amess, in essex. sir david was killed during a constituency surgery in leigh—on—sea yesterday. the police are treating the attack as a terrorist incident which is potentially "linked to islamist extremism". a 25—year—old man who was arrested at the scene remains in custody — and searches have been carried out at 2 addresses in london. our home affairs correspondent, dominic casciani, reports. a moment of unity across the political divide. two leaders representing a shocked nation. this morning, borisjohnson and the labour leader keir starmer stood together on a quiet road in leigh—on—sea, where sir david amess lost his life. the committed constituency mp who, at the age of 69, showed no sign of giving up his work for his community. campaigning on every issue that mattered — climate change, cycling, veterans and even local dogs. less than 24—hours ago, david was in his own constituency doing a local advice surgery, which is somthing all mps do, week in, week out. of course david, as i knew him and we all knew him, was a passionate advocate and champion for southend, this wonderful town, and with that, of course, he was a man of the people. the community has been hit sideways by this, it is notjust a member of parliament, notjust the local member of parliament, but he did really touch people's lives, in a way that most mps don't manage to do. today the belfairs methodist church remains behind a cordon, detectives still at the scene where the suspected attacker was arrested and a knife recovered. overnight, scotland yard said sir david's death was being investigated as an act of terrorism motivated by islamist extremism. the 25—year—old man arrested at the scene remains in custody and security officials have told the bbc that he wasn't on mi5�*s main database of suspects, but there have been two searches overnight at addresses in london. signs of the huge operation now under way to understand what happened and more about this man's life. and nearby, shock at sir david's constituency office, the flag at half—mast. i don't think it's completely sunk in yet, but you only have to look at the floral tributes that are outside the constituency office here. a man of the people being mourned by the people, and a community and nation asking why. a review has begun into the security of mps when they meet their constituents — something seen as central to their role. one senior mp — tobias ellwood — has suggested that face—to—face meetings should no longer take place. our political correspondent, peter saul, reports. hello there. nice to meet you. scenes like this have long been a feature of our politics. it might not look as exciting as the fierce debates we sometimes see in parliament, but it is just as important. a chance for mps to meet the very people they are elected to represent. sir david amess was far from alone in holding a constituency surgery yesterday, and his death has raised questions about whether something so fundamental in our democracy can still be safe. acts of this are absolutely wrong and we cannot let that get in the way of our functioning democracy. so that is why there are measures under way right now, i have convened meetings yesterday, i have been with the speaker of the house and with the police and our security services, to make sure all measures are being put in place for the security of mps so they can carry on with their duties as elected democratic members. the home secretary has started a review of mps' security. police forces across the uk have been contacting mps, to see what support they might be able to provide. there is always a big police presence in westminster, particularly after the terror attack of 2018, but it is impossible to provide this level of security for mp5, when they are in their constituencies. now the mp who had to perform cpr after a police officer was fatally stabbed here says it is time to pause face to face constituency surgeries. i would recommend that no mp has a direct surgery until, you know, you can move to zoom, there's other ways. you can achieve a lot over the telephone, you can get things moving faster rather having to wait for the surgery date as well. the issue of protection for mp5, and those around them has been on the agenda for years, and some long serving figures believe now is the time for the parties to come together and take serious action. it is not a question of carrying on with business as usual and just regarding this as an occupational hazard of being an mp, nor of having close security such as the home secretary has or the prime minister or the foreign secretary needs to have. we need to have a discussion about how we strike the balance. many mps want to be as accessible as possible, especially after the pandemic, but yesterday's tragedy in essex could force them to think twice about the way they work. peter saul, bbc news. sir david amess was passionate about animal rights. he supported a hunting ban, and once introduced a motion in parliament to ban trophy hunting. he worked closely with the charity, born free. let's speak to their policy adviser, dominic dyer. thank you forjoining us on this sad day. thank you for “oining us on this sad da . �* ., . thank you for “oining us on this sad da . �* . . ., ., thank you for “oining us on this sad da. ., day. after the tragic death of sir david. animal _ day. after the tragic death of sir david. animal rights, _ day. after the tragic death of sir david. animal rights, why - day. after the tragic death of sir david. animal rights, why did i day. after the tragic death of sir l david. animal rights, why did they mean so much to him? what did he say to you about the subject? he: probably was the most outspoken and involved mp and westminster in recent years on a wide—ranging wildlife protection issues. it really came from the heart. he was a social conservative npr niches like brexit and abortion, but he was also very strong on animals and willing to take on the government of the day. —— conservative in on issues like. he was against david cameron's free vote on the hunting ban, he wanted to see tighter enforced. recently he has been involved in ending the trophy hunting in africa and other nations. across—the—board, he was incredibly passionate and active over animal issues, lobbying ministers and getting out and about on the campaign for organisations like ours. , , , on the campaign for organisations like ours. ,, , ~ :, like ours. issues like fox hunting noes like ours. issues like fox hunting goes against _ like ours. issues like fox hunting goes against traditional - goes against traditional conservative politics, he has been described as a formidable campaigner, could you give us an inside into what he did? he actually chanced inside into what he did? he actually changed attitudes _ inside into what he did? he actually changed attitudes in _ inside into what he did? he actually changed attitudes in the _ changed attitudes in the conservative party. the conservative animal welfare foundation, the founders are really upset because they worked closely with them but they worked closely with them but they had built that into a powerhouse with the tory party. david was one of the first mps out talking on this. now you see new mps out campaigning on this issue, this is very important to many conservative mps unto the electorate so he shifted the axis in terms of the conservative party on these issues. today for example most of the conservative new intake are completely opposed to fox hunting as theresa may find tour cost at the last election, she lost seats on the issue. she had to accept —— public opinion was not on her side regarding the hunting act. he understood about people and animals and wanting to protect them, he was passionate about that. fix, and wanting to protect them, he was passionate about that.— passionate about that. a formidable all to have passionate about that. a formidable ally to have on _ passionate about that. a formidable ally to have on your _ passionate about that. a formidable ally to have on your side, _ passionate about that. a formidable ally to have on your side, it - passionate about that. a formidable ally to have on your side, it wasn't l ally to have on your side, it wasn't just local and british issues he was aware of because obviously international conservation was on his agenda. he was against the ivory trade. what did he do for that? the ivo trade trade. what did he do for that? tue ivory trade was trade. what did he do for that? tte ivory trade was another contentious issue when theresa may again for the last election. she took out a commitment in the tory manifesto to introduce a ban on the former ivory trade. it was something many conservatives were very concerned about. what david did was push that back on the agenda. we now have an ivory act and that is down to mps like david who were concerned in the house, recognise we had a duty in the uk to end the significant trade in ivory that was being passed off as ivory before 1948. actually it was ivory from animals that have been poached in recent years, we lose 20,000 elephants in africa each year so there is a need to tighten these rules and david was behind that and worked with other mp5. people like michael gove and then push forward legislation we now have and we can be grateful to david for that. he was a great dog owner and champion of dogs, like myself he got involved in working with many charities and the dog world to push legislation, looking at how we can have higher sentencing for the theft of dogs. trying to ensure that vets check microchips before they euthanise animals, things like this that are very important moves to improve animal welfare for dogs in this country, he was very passionate about that. we this country, he was very passionate about that. ~ :, this country, he was very passionate about that. ~ . ., ., ., about that. we are hearing a lot about that. we are hearing a lot about his passion, _ about that. we are hearing a lot about his passion, he _ about that. we are hearing a lot about his passion, he was - about that. we are hearing a lot about his passion, he was a - about his passion, he was a passionate mp, it was notjust a case of putting his name to a cause or a photo op. case of putting his name to a cause ora photo op. i case of putting his name to a cause or a photo op. i have seen a photograph from 2018 where he attended albiol hosted by born free, how deep that his passion go when he put his name and dedication to a cause? , .,. put his name and dedication to a cause? ., , cause? dash-mac ball. you can see it when he wrote _ cause? dash-mac ball. you can see it when he wrote back _ cause? dash-mac ball. you can see it when he wrote back to _ cause? dash-mac ball. you can see it when he wrote back to his _ when he wrote back to his constituents. many constituents raise weather mps but not many of them pick it up. david always took them pick it up. david always took the time to respond. you can have receptions in the house and sometimes you can struggle to get mps to turn up at he would always turn up, with a smile on his face. i remember being outside a house with brian may after a debate in the pouring rain and david was there under an umbrella smiling away and being a force for change and supporting issues that the conservative government were dedicated to but david was having none of that. he was clear in his opposition and happy to be seen on the other side of that debate. you are aaivin the other side of that debate. you are giving us _ the other side of that debate. you are giving us a _ the other side of that debate. you are giving us a picture of a real plethora of causes that he was involved in, did he have a reflector you which one he was particularly proud of? t you which one he was particularly roud of? ~' ., proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant _ proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a _ proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a lot _ proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a lot to _ proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a lot to him. - proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a lot to him. he - proud of? i think the fox hunting issue meant a lot to him. he didj proud of? i think the fox hunting - issue meant a lot to him. he did not like cruelty to animals and the idea that hounds would trace and rip a fox part was completely wrong. some people in the conservative party felt this was a tradition that should be kept. he never doubted that the hunting act brought on by labour was the right thing to do despite opposition in the countryside. i think he changed attitudes in the conservative party, especially the new intake of tory mps think these issues do really matter to conservative voters and all voters in this country. he had a deep commitment to welfare and protection of animals. it was heartfelt and genuine. if you look to 38 career he had in the commons, a lot of the time he spent on these issues and his constituency, loved constituency work but you always knew where you were with him when it came to animal ashes. he will be irreplaceable, a loss notjust to politics but to animal welfare and you can see that an responses from various wildlife organisations, there is deep deep sadness there. thank you very much forjoining us today. the headlines on bbc news... side by side in grief — the prime minister and leader of the opposition, visit the scene where tory mp, sir david amess, was killed yesterday. police say they're treating the killing as a �*terrorist incident�* — as tributes are paid from across the world of politics. the killing has resurfaced the dilemma facing mps, over security at their surgeries — and whether it would be safer to hold them virtually. sport and time for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre. what do we start with, football? indeed radio. we will start the premier league. —— indeed we do. claudio ranieri�*s first match in charge of watford turned into one he�*ll want to forget — his side was thrashed 5—0 by liverpool. sadio mane opened the scoring afterjust eight minutes at vicarage road. this was his hundredth premier league goal — making him the third african to achieve that feat. mo salah showed his spectacular goal in liverpool�*s previous game against manchester city wasn�*t a fluke as he reproduced that magic. and roberto firmino completed the rout with a hat—trick to move liverpool to the top of the table for at least a couple of hours. it went 5—0 and the people are really happy. he is an incredible player. it was not the easiest game, it was a great space. didn�*t play well for a while, we are all human beings. that you can score these kind of goals and you�*re there is important. he isa he is a very important player for us. he is a very important player for us. need him to be in a good shape and that is why i am obviously really happy. it is a big job but if my players understand me quickly, the big job is a little less big. are you confident you will be ok? always i am confident. it is the first match, i was waiting for some battling today. now we are ready, we are ready to work hard. big defeat forward hurt. —— for watford. it�*s a busy afternoon in the prem, with five other games currently underway... aston villa v wolves. leicester v man utd. man city 1—0 burnley, bernardo silva scoring. and later, chelsea have the chance to move back to the top, above liverpool, if they win at in—form brentford. at half—time and that manchester city game, for medals for the league winning squad back in the 1967 season. among them was stan horne, meaning he becomes the first black footballer to win the english football league. horne did not receive one at the time due to the smaller allocation of medals and a different appearance quota to claim one. protocols have since changed on who receives medals and the efl approved city�*s request for players who missed out to be awarded one. five matches underway in the scottish premiership — with rangers and celtic both in action. rangers are in the lead against hearts. celtic have had to zero lead at motherwell. hibs are losing to dundee united. osheen murphy has become champion jockey for a thrid time as 12—1 shot celiway won the champions stakes on champions day at ascot. the queen was in attendance to see the french trained horse finish ahead of dubai honor and mac swiney. derby winner adayar faded to fifth and with it went william buick�*s hopes of finishing with his first jockey�*s title on what is brtain�*s richest race day. at the women�*s big bash in australia, sydney thunder have started the defence of their title — with a humilating defeat — losing by 30 runs to the adelaide strikers. and the match will be remembered for this stunning catch by bridget patterson. with the ball heading for six — patterson was able to not only able to catch it one handed — but also able to make sure she didn�*t take it over the boundary rope. a stunning bit of fielding. fantastic fa ntastic stuff. the melbourne renegades have started this season�*s tournament with a win. they beat the hobart hurricanes by six wickets. set 122 to win from their 20 overs, melbourne chased down their target with four balls to spare. that�*s all the sport for now. you can find more on all those stories on the bbc sport website. thank you very much. let us return to the fatal stabbing of the conservative and peter sir david amess. politicians across a house have been tribute to a man who the home secretary called a man of the people. let�*s speak to shailesh are, the conservative mp for north west cambridgeshire. he knew sir david amess well. a man of the people, what that means you? to a man of the people, what that means ou? ., ,, ., , a man of the people, what that means ou? ., ,, .,, ., you? to me sir david was an extraordinary _ you? to me sir david was an extraordinary man, - you? to me sir david was an extraordinary man, lovely, l you? to me sir david was an - extraordinary man, lovely, warm and generous _ extraordinary man, lovely, warm and generous. when i first started 17 years— generous. when i first started 17 years ago. — generous. when i first started 17 years ago, he was one of the first mps years ago, he was one of the first we to— years ago, he was one of the first mps to come up to me and say this is a complex— mps to come up to me and say this is a complex place with lots of rules and regulations so if you ever have any difficulties or need advice, my door is— any difficulties or need advice, my door is always open. what is extraordinary as i saw him say the same _ extraordinary as i saw him say the same things to other new members of the years— same things to other new members of the years whenever we had general elections _ the years whenever we had general elections or by—elections. i shall miss_ elections or by—elections. i shall miss him — elections or by—elections. i shall miss him because his office was round _ miss him because his office was round the — miss him because his office was round the corner. we would often meet _ round the corner. we would often meet in _ round the corner. we would often meet in the — round the corner. we would often meet in the corridor or left on the weighted — meet in the corridor or left on the weighted votes and what back together. when you say man of the people. _ together. when you say man of the people, this is a man who is committed to his constituents, nearly— committed to his constituents, nearly 40 — committed to his constituents, nearly 40 years of dedication and commitment to the people he served. what is _ commitment to the people he served. what is extraordinary also is that he was _ what is extraordinary also is that he was very much a true parliamentarian. he will be missed by members of parliament on both sides _ by members of parliament on both sides the — by members of parliament on both sides. the fact that so many mps across— sides. the fact that so many mps across the — sides. the fact that so many mps across the political divide had been so warm _ across the political divide had been so warm and generous with their comments — so warm and generous with their comments as a tribute to him. he was an mp_ comments as a tribute to him. he was an mp since _ comments as a tribute to him. he was an mp since 1983 and was a member of parliament— an mp since 1983 and was a member of parliament during some tumultuous times, _ parliament during some tumultuous times a _ parliament during some tumultuous times, a number of prime ministers and huge _ times, a number of prime ministers and huge events. through it all, david _ and huge events. through it all, david remained with his feet firmly on the _ david remained with his feet firmly on the ground. he was a man of humhie— on the ground. he was a man of humble origins, he never let anything _ humble origins, he never let anything get to his head, he never let things — anything get to his head, he never let things get their way. he served his constituents well and he spoke up his constituents well and he spoke up for— his constituents well and he spoke up for them always in parliament and i up for them always in parliament and i shall— up for them always in parliament and i shall listen as i know many other people _ i shall listen as i know many other people will— i shall listen as i know many other people will as well. did i shall listen as i know many other people will as well.— people will as well. did he ever tell ou people will as well. did he ever tell you why — people will as well. did he ever tell you why he _ people will as well. did he ever tell you why he got _ people will as well. did he ever tell you why he got involved . people will as well. did he ever tell you why he got involved in | tell you why he got involved in politics? it is not the easiest career, the way you are perceived by the public might not be the way you really are, why did politics to him? curiously enough, we never discussed specifically— curiously enough, we never discussed specifically why he came into parliament. it is one of those questions _ parliament. it is one of those questionsjournalists parliament. it is one of those questions journalists ask mps but mps don't ask each other. from what i mps don't ask each other. from what i knew_ mps don't ask each other. from what i knew of— mps don't ask each other. from what i knew of david, he was somebody whos— i knew of david, he was somebody who's certainly in public life was absolutely committed to doing the very best — absolutely committed to doing the very best for the people he represented. it wasn'tjust his constituency spoke up for, he had many— constituency spoke up for, he had many causes he cared about and spoke passionately to deliver on those causes — passionately to deliver on those causes as— passionately to deliver on those causes as well so i think fundamentally, david was a very kind—hearted man, very caring, always— kind—hearted man, very caring, always a — kind—hearted man, very caring, always a smile. i shall miss that smite. _ always a smile. i shall miss that smite. we — always a smile. i shall miss that smile, we all well. all the pictures in the _ smile, we all well. all the pictures in the media have him with that wonderfui— in the media have him with that wonderful smile. he was somebody that could _ wonderful smile. he was somebody that could walk into a room, smile and everybody wants to warm to him and everybody wants to warm to him and want _ and everybody wants to warm to him and want him in their group to talk to him _ and want him in their group to talk to him he— and want him in their group to talk to him. he would have lots ofjokes to him. he would have lots ofjokes to tell, _ to him. he would have lots ofjokes to tell, tots — to him. he would have lots ofjokes to tell, lots of stories. nearly 40 years _ to tell, lots of stories. nearly 40 years of— to tell, lots of stories. nearly 40 years of experience in parliament, there _ years of experience in parliament, there were — years of experience in parliament, there were huge amounts take talent people _ there were huge amounts take talent people were eager to listen to. he had people were eager to listen to. he. had a people were eager to listen to. had a rare people were eager to listen to. he: had a rare skill, charisma and being able to relate if he could take what his constituents said to parliament and really deliver for them. his constituents said to parliament and really deliverfor them. on his constituents said to parliament and really deliver for them. on the subject of security, i don�*t know if he ever spoke about it with sir david but what are your thoughts on discussions this weekend that her that moved forward? this discussions this weekend that her that moved forward?— that moved forward? as far as is securi , that moved forward? as far as is security. all— that moved forward? as far as is security, all mps _ that moved forward? as far as is security, all mps are _ that moved forward? as far as is security, all mps are mindful- that moved forward? as far as is| security, all mps are mindfulthat security, all mps are mindful that there _ security, all mps are mindful that there are — security, all mps are mindful that there are people out there who might wish to— there are people out there who might wish to do— there are people out there who might wish to do us harm. but also one of the central— wish to do us harm. but also one of the central elements of our democracy is that link between members of parliament and the public and that— members of parliament and the public and that element of accessibility so it is a _ and that element of accessibility so it is a question of striking a balance _ it is a question of striking a balance between ensuring that public have access to us but nevertheless we are _ have access to us but nevertheless we are safe, as well as the staff who often — we are safe, as well as the staff who often accompany us. it is important _ who often accompany us. it is important to recognise that while the big _ important to recognise that while the big debate is and what happens in surgeries, and sadly david was carried _ in surgeries, and sadly david was carried -- — in surgeries, and sadly david was carried —— was killed and his surgery— carried —— was killed and his surgery setting, likewise with joe cox and _ surgery setting, likewise with joe cox and stephen timms ten years ago was attacked in his surgery as well and others — was attacked in his surgery as well and others, but we need to recognise that white _ and others, but we need to recognise that while the surgery element is important, it is nevertheless a small— important, it is nevertheless a small part _ important, it is nevertheless a small part of the public persona that we — small part of the public persona that we have and activities that we do. example earlier today, that we have and activities that we do. example earliertoday, i that we have and activities that we do. example earlier today, iwas that we have and activities that we do. example earlier today, i was in peterborough city centre where they were celebrating diwali. it was out in the _ were celebrating diwali. it was out in the open — were celebrating diwali. it was out in the open and i was sitting there. i in the open and i was sitting there. i was _ in the open and i was sitting there. i was sitting — in the open and i was sitting there. i was sitting on the front row easily— i was sitting on the front row easily accessible to other people. a few days _ easily accessible to other people. a few days ago i was at a village opening — few days ago i was at a village opening where a restoration was happening, there were 50 or 60 people — happening, there were 50 or 60 people there and it had been advertised. anybody could have walked — advertised. anybody could have walked in. ithink advertised. anybody could have walked in. i think we will talk about— walked in. i think we will talk about more about security in parliament so we need to consider more _ parliament so we need to consider more than — parliament so we need to consider more thanjust surgeries because we are public— more thanjust surgeries because we are public people, serving the community and wherever we go, there is that— community and wherever we go, there is that element of security. like most _ is that element of security. like most people, we have to go into supermarkets to do shopping. if i am dropping _ supermarkets to do shopping. if i am dropping i_ supermarkets to do shopping. if i am dropping i need to go to a petrol station _ dropping i need to go to a petrol station for— dropping i need to go to a petrol station for fuel so it is a much broader— station for fuel so it is a much broader aspect in terms of security we need _ broader aspect in terms of security we need to— broader aspect in terms of security we need to look at. one other thing, in the _ we need to look at. one other thing, in the i7 _ we need to look at. one other thing, in the 17 years i have been in parliament, i have noticed that the tone of— parliament, i have noticed that the tone of correspondence that i am getting _ tone of correspondence that i am getting and i know other mps as well has changed for the worst. there was an element, — has changed for the worst. there was an element, a little bit of respect before, _ an element, a little bit of respect before, and i don't mean in a differential sense but in that people — differential sense but in that people wanted to write to us. —— in a deferentiai— people wanted to write to us. —— in a deferential sense. but in recent years— a deferential sense. but in recent years that — a deferential sense. but in recent years that tone has become more hostile. _ years that tone has become more hostile, people will swear at me in their letters, say the kind of things— their letters, say the kind of things i_ their letters, say the kind of things i would not want to repeat on television _ things i would not want to repeat on television. what is really sad is that for— television. what is really sad is that for some people that is normal language _ that for some people that is normal language because i have challenged some of— language because i have challenged some of the people who write in such terms _ some of the people who write in such terms and _ some of the people who write in such terms and i_ some of the people who write in such terms and i said, we can agree to disagree. — terms and i said, we can agree to disagree, we can have a robust debate — disagree, we can have a robust debate but there is no need for you to use _ debate but there is no need for you to use the — debate but there is no need for you to use the language you're using and they see _ to use the language you're using and they see what kind of language? that is how— they see what kind of language? that is how i_ they see what kind of language? that is how i normally speak. so we need to try— is how i normally speak. so we need to try and _ is how i normally speak. so we need to try and appreciate that when we talk about— to try and appreciate that when we talk about abuse of members of parliament, certainly there is the personal— parliament, certainly there is the personal abuse, abuse and social media, _ personal abuse, abuse and social media, physicalthreats, but also now we _ media, physicalthreats, but also now we get hundreds of e—mails on a regular— now we get hundreds of e—mails on a regular basis — now we get hundreds of e—mails on a regular basis and a lot of those e-maiis — regular basis and a lot of those e—mails can sometimes be abusive and what these _ e—mails can sometimes be abusive and what these people do not appreciate that they _ what these people do not appreciate that they might be targeting their anger— that they might be targeting their anger and poison towards me and other— anger and poison towards me and other mp5— anger and poison towards me and other mps but it is our staff who actually — other mps but it is our staff who actually look at all of this as welt — actually look at all of this as welt 20 _ actually look at all of this as well. 20 years ago members of parliament would share one secretary to do all— parliament would share one secretary to do all their work, they would get about— to do all their work, they would get about 25_ to do all their work, they would get about 25 letters and an mp would personally write replies but now, i can get _ personally write replies but now, i can get more than 25 e—mails on our and that— can get more than 25 e—mails on our and that cycle continues 24/7 so of course _ and that cycle continues 24/7 so of course we — and that cycle continues 24/7 so of course we need staff to help manage the flow _ course we need staff to help manage the flow of— course we need staff to help manage the flow of correspondence and contract — the flow of correspondence and contract that is made but these people — contract that is made but these people do not realise that those writing — people do not realise that those writing these things, often they are also victimising or hurting ordinary citizens— also victimising or hurting ordinary citizens who are not public figures, they work— citizens who are not public figures, they work for public figures but there _ they work for public figures but there are — they work for public figures but there are ordinary citizens trying to earn— there are ordinary citizens trying to earn money to put food on the table _ to earn money to put food on the table and — to earn money to put food on the table and pay for the rent etc. this is something that often does not get talked _ is something that often does not get talked about but i have noticed and i talked about but i have noticed and i know _ talked about but i have noticed and i know other mps have that the tone has changed in terms of the correspondence we get. thank you so much for painting _ correspondence we get. thank you so much for painting a _ correspondence we get. thank you so much for painting a picture _ correspondence we get. thank you so much for painting a picture for - correspondence we get. thank you so much for painting a picture for us - much for painting a picture for us and revealing what actually happens within constituencies and those are touched by it as well. thank you. ads, touched by it as well. thank you. a pleasure, thank you. a pleasure, thank you. the united nations has withdrawn its invitation to matt hancock, to take up an unpaid role, helping africa�*s economies recover from covid19. it�*s understood a decision was taken at senior levels within the un, to rescind the offer — after questions were raised about the former health secretary�*s suitability for the role. so, he has released a statement, matt hancock has said, i was honoured to be approached by the un to help drive forward an agenda on strengthening marketing and then ? bringing investment to africa. the un have written to me to explain that a technical un will that explains a sitting members of parliament cannot also be un special representative. since i am committed to continuing to serve as an mp for west to suffer, this means i cannot take up the position. i look forward to supporting the un eca in their mission to whatever way, or rather what in whatever way i can in my parliamentary role. that statement coming from matt hancock as the un rescind the offer for his position as special representative to the economic commission for africa. also, we are getting the latest coronavirus figures from the government and as far as people who have tested positive, you can follow that online, 43,423 people have tested positive within the last seven days. 148 people have died, thatis seven days. 148 people have died, that is of people who tested positive within 28 days, or death within 28 days of a positive test. and a quick update on the vaccinations, the percentage of the population aged 12 or over who have had a first dose is currently at 85.9% of the total population, and 78.8% have had both doses are ? and are fully inoculated. we are going to be following and watching the latest releases in the media show shortly but first, though, we are going to catch up with the weather. he is ben rich. it has been a mixed day today. some of the side with cloud and outbreaks of rain, others saw some outbreaks of sunshine but this evening, cloud will win out and produce outbreaks of quite heavy rain, especially across the southern parts of scotland, northern england, some rain getting further south eastwards. most of us... a few missed patches around. into tomorrow, expect a lot of cloud and some outbreaks of rain, although that rain should tend to turn lighter and punchier as the day wears on. they will be some sunny spots in the afternoon, the northern isles doing well for sunshine, maybe the midlands brightening up later on as well. sunshine in the south could lift temperatures to 19 degrees and thatis lift temperatures to 19 degrees and that is a sign of things to come in the start of the new week. things looked unsettled with outbreaks of rain and strong winds but it will be mild, even warm, with highs of 20 degrees. hello. the back pages have been dominating the front pages this week with the sale of newcastle united football club. but the premier league and the only part of british public life that the saudis are buying into. but the premier league and the only part of british public life that the saudis are buying into. the independent and the evening standard can both trace their ownership back to the gulf kingdom. while over in the us, media giants like netflix and disney have had big investment from the saudis. so, does this affect the journalism we read of the television we watch? joining me to discuss that is vivienne walt, a correspondent for time magazine and fortune. areeb ullah is a journalist at middle east eye. also sanan vakil who is deputy director of the middle east and north africa programme at chatham house, and jim waterson, who is media editor at the guardian. also today, the classic american music magazine, rolling stone, has launched in the uk. that might come as a surprise, considering how many media publications are shrinking. darren styles is the magazine�*s managing director. he also publishes attitude magazine. you could probably call this more of a relaunch than a launch but it didn�*t go so well the first time rolling stone launched in the uk. yeah, i think it was 1968, mickjagger launched the magazine in partnership with jann wenner, the founder of rollingstone. and jann wenner said to me, everyone had a lovely time, burnt through quite a lot of money through a 12 month period, had a swanky office in chelsea butjann decided it was doing more harm than good when i think what turned out to be the last issue spelt bob dylan�*s name wrong on the front cover. so, at that point, jann decided it was time to cut and run. so, 52 years later, here we are back again. but with spell—check, so... awesome. brilliant. i look forward to hearing much more about that and what you are doing with this iconic title later in the programme. but let�*s start with saudi arabia. because the spotlight has been on the football. but listeners may be surprised to realise how embedded that country is in the british media. jim waterson, media editor at the guardian, just give us a reminder which newspapers and tv channels are owned by well, saudi arabia is a country with a lot of money and it wants to improve its image and it wants to start improving its image abroad. and there is no better place in the world, if you are a gulf state, to come to change your image than london. we have all sorts of institutions whetherfootball, media, or educational for sale and willing to take some money. so, in the case of the media, you�*ve got two really prominent examples, the london evening standard and the independent which is now online only. they were both owned by lord lebedev who is a russian, originally from russia. he sold stakes and owns a third of stakes to mysterious saudi businessmen who through a slightly complicated series of offshore accounts that turned out to be, in the eyes of the british government, connected to the saudi state. it is worth noting that the independent made it very clear that they haven�*t had any editorial compromising positions as a result of this, that they feel they are able to do theirjob as well. but you�*ve got to ask, what is it that the saudis are buying when they buy a third of these quite prominent british outlets? and before we answer that, can ijust interrupt and ask, my understanding is that we didn�*t actually know about this ownership, this part ownership, it wasn�*t in the public domain for quite some time. it was kept very quiet through a series of cayman island accounts and it only really came out after some digging by the ft in particular who managed to expose who was the ultimate owner of these. and what british people might not know is you might read the independent and you might not notice anything different but across the middle east, the saudi owners have taken the independent brand and launched a series of websites which have, in the eyes of many, been seen to push a pro—saudi narrative in local languages. so, even if the brand in the uk isn�*t changing, the sort of power of the british brand can be used overseas. and this is a lot of it, it is soft power, whether it is used in advertising the ec promoting saudi arabia, whether it is pr agencies in london that are earning massive sums spinning on behalf of all the gulf kingdoms, or whether it is actual direct ownership of british media through partnerships with companies like the independent. and they say they are not promoting, that they are completely independent, that they are editorially independent, these outlets, but you are saying as well, are you, that this has real world implications for british readers, for british audiences, do you think? i thinkjournalism is a very hollowed out industry. there is a lot that you can scoop up on the cheap. if you want to buy an old brand of the british media, if you so wanted to, then it is relatively easy to pick one up on the cheap and stuff it up with relatively underemployed journalists who are available for a not an awful lot of money. if you want these things and you have the cash, you can kind of make this happen. and so when we think about what influences us, whether it is a mysterious facebook campaign promoting a country or whether it is a more traditional think of owning an outlet, there is always an opportunity for gulf states, and it is notjust saudi arabia, uae is also looking around the place and investing in outlets. they want to shape western opinion because they care about how it affects them and reflects on their back home. affects them and reflects on their back home-— back home. vivian, that is the british press _ back home. vivian, that is the british press we _ back home. vivian, that is the british press we are _ back home. vivian, that is the british press we are talking i back home. vivian, that is the - british press we are talking about, but you have also be looking at some of the us media companies that saudi arabia has been investing in and these are companies that many of us use every day. these are companies that many of us use every day-— use every day. absolutely. the one that i use every day. absolutely. the one that l delved _ use every day. absolutely. the one that i delved into _ use every day. absolutely. the one that i delved into deepest - use every day. absolutely. the one that i delved into deepest was - use every day. absolutely. the one that i delved into deepest was a . that i delved into deepest was a netflix — that i delved into deepest was a netflix. the saudis made a big deal with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike — with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike whatjim with netflix. now, it should be said that unlike what jim was talking about, — that unlike what jim was talking about, these are us companies going out and _ about, these are us companies going out and looking for growth markets, and a _ out and looking for growth markets, and a lot _ out and looking for growth markets, and a lot of— out and looking for growth markets, and a lot of them are kind of tapped out in— and a lot of them are kind of tapped out in the _ and a lot of them are kind of tapped out in the west. we think of netflix being _ out in the west. we think of netflix being a _ out in the west. we think of netflix being a booming company but its growth _ being a booming company but its growth is — being a booming company but its growth is really, really slowing, and where — growth is really, really slowing, and where are you going to get millions— and where are you going to get millions and millions of well funded young _ millions and millions of well funded young people to sign on to your service? — young people to sign on to your service? it— young people to sign on to your service? it is going to be in countries _ service? it is going to be in countries like saudi arabia where two thirds — countries like saudi arabia where two thirds of the country is younger than 30, _ two thirds of the country is younger than 30, they have money to spend, they are _ than 30, they have money to spend, they are looking for entertainment, they are looking for entertainment, they are _ they are looking for entertainment, they are hungry for it, and as many of the _ they are hungry for it, and as many of the saudis that i spoke to said, we hinge — of the saudis that i spoke to said, we binge watch all the kind of same tv as _ we binge watch all the kind of same tv as you _ we binge watch all the kind of same tv as you do. we just do it online. but why— tv as you do. we just do it online. but why does that mean the saudis want to invest in netflix? i can see why the saudis might want to invest in netflix. ? netflix might want it. what saudi is investing in is other kinds _ what saudi is investing in is other kinds of— what saudi is investing in is other kinds of media companies. they have invested _ kinds of media companies. they have invested hugely in disney, in amc movie _ invested hugely in disney, in amc movie theatres, there wasn't a movie theatre _ movie theatres, there wasn't a movie theatre in_ movie theatres, there wasn't a movie theatre in saudi arabia until a few years— theatre in saudi arabia until a few years ago — theatre in saudi arabia until a few years ago. they hadn't been a movie theatre _ years ago. they hadn't been a movie theatre open in the kingdom for something like 35 years. and now are there _ something like 35 years. and now are there lots? _ something like 35 years. and now are there lots? there are, according to there lots? there are, according to the head _ there lots? there are, according to the head of— there lots? there are, according to the head of amc, which runs, i think they have _ the head of amc, which runs, i think they have opened about a dozen multiplexes around saudi arabia, the one in— multiplexes around saudi arabia, the one in riyadh, they estimate about 11 one in riyadh, they estimate about it times— one in riyadh, they estimate about 11 times the traffic as the one in london — 11 times the traffic as the one in london. for example. they are packed, — london. for example. they are packed, they have been packed from day one _ packed, they have been packed from day one when they opened and i think it was— day one when they opened and i think it was 2018~ _ day one when they opened and i think it was 2018. their first showing was like a _ it was 2018. their first showing was like a panther. it was the biggest event _ like a panther. it was the biggest event in — like a panther. it was the biggest event in riyadh memory. find like a panther. it was the biggest event in riyadh memory. and that is interestin: event in riyadh memory. and that is interesting because _ event in riyadh memory. and that is interesting because it _ event in riyadh memory. and that is interesting because it is _ event in riyadh memory. and that is interesting because it is the - event in riyadh memory. and that is interesting because it is the same i interesting because it is the same black panther you see around the world. i wonder if the investment in something like netflix, the same question i askedjim, is it real—world implications? does it give the any editorial sway in what netflix views are seeing? taste give the any editorial sway in what netflix views are seeing?- netflix views are seeing? we see tin bits netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of _ netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of that _ netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of that and _ netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of that and i _ netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of that and i would i netflix views are seeing? we see tiny bits of that and i would say, | tiny bits of that and i would say, unlike _ tiny bits of that and i would say, unlike whatjim was tiny bits of that and i would say, unlike what jim was saying, tiny bits of that and i would say, unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of— unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of the — unlike whatjim was saying, i think one of the major effects is a kind of, one of the major effects is a kind of. the _ one of the major effects is a kind of, the hesitation that western producers have now. can they... can they create _ producers have now. can they... can they create something that is very critical— they create something that is very critical of— they create something that is very critical of the saudis without risking — critical of the saudis without risking losing their shirt in the process? _ risking losing their shirt in the process? there was one incidents which, _ process? there was one incidents which, of— process? there was one incidents which, of the documentary called the dissident _ which, of the documentary called the dissident made by an oscar—winning film director, ed came out in january— film director, ed came out in january last year, it could not get distribution because it was about the murder ofjamal. it took a very lon- the murder ofjamal. it took a very long time — the murder ofjamal. it took a very long time for that documentary to be picked _ long time for that documentary to be picked up _ long time for that documentary to be picked up by anybody. and they were very clear _ picked up by anybody. and they were very clear reasons why. i mean, netflix — very clear reasons why. i mean, netflix screened it at, or it came to the _ netflix screened it at, or it came to the screening of it at the sundance film festival and took a pass on— sundance film festival and took a pass on it. — sundance film festival and took a pass on it, as did everybody else. i pass on it, as did everybody else. mean, i pass on it, as did everybody else. i mean, i suppose netflix aren't here mean, i suppose netflix aren�*t here to put forward their side, they might be other reasons why they didn�*t want the documentary, it might not be any good, or whatever. you mention the deal between saudis and netflix, what was it? the you mention the deal between saudis and netflix, what was it?— and netflix, what was it? the saudis made to production _ and netflix, what was it? the saudis made to production deals, _ and netflix, what was it? the saudis made to production deals, surrey, . made to production deals, surrey, netflix _ made to production deals, surrey, netflix made to production deals, five years— netflix made to production deals, five years each and five products each, _ five years each and five products each, tv — five years each and five products each, tv series or movies with production— each, tv series or movies with production companies in riyadh. actually, — production companies in riyadh. actually, the interesting thing is that you — actually, the interesting thing is that you and i can now click on netflix — that you and i can now click on netflix and see what they have produced. and they are very unusual and rather— produced. and they are very unusual and rather surprising. these are made _ and rather surprising. these are made by— and rather surprising. these are made by young cutting—edge film directors — made by young cutting—edge film directors, of which there are many in riyadh — directors, of which there are many in riyadh. and they are creating tv series— in riyadh. and they are creating tv series and — in riyadh. and they are creating tv series and movies that are very clearly— series and movies that are very clearly critical of rich saudis, possibly— clearly critical of rich saudis, possibly the royals, although that is a little — possibly the royals, although that is a little bit less obvious. they e> western audiences. interesting. you mentionedjust _ western audiences. interesting. you mentioned just then, _ western audiences. interesting. you mentioned just then, the _ western audiences. interesting. you mentioned just then, the murder i western audiences. interesting. you mentioned just then, the murder of| mentioned just then, the murder of jamarcus odree, and that was only a few years ago and there was outcry across the media and across the world about that. i western media companies not seeing any pushback for this? , , : for this? very, very little. and in fact, that — for this? very, very little. and in fact, that murder— for this? very, very little. and in fact, that murder which - for this? very, very little. and in l fact, that murder which happened ekactly— fact, that murder which happened exactly three years ago came only six months — exactly three years ago came only six months after the crown prince and nbs— six months after the crown prince and nbs did this major trip around york and _ and nbs did this major trip around york and silicon valley and la and had dinner— york and silicon valley and la and had dinner with all the major movie stars _ had dinner with all the major movie stars and _ had dinner with all the major movie stars and directors and the major czech _ stars and directors and the major czech giants of silicon valley. they were _ czech giants of silicon valley. they were in _ czech giants of silicon valley. they were in deals in the works. six months — later jamal laterjamal khashoggi later jamal khashoggi was laterjamal khashoggi was murdered. and there _ laterjamal khashoggi was murdered. and there was a freeze for about a year or— and there was a freeze for about a year or two — and there was a freeze for about a year ortwo. but and there was a freeze for about a year or two. but i would say that is pretty— year or two. but i would say that is pretty much— year or two. but i would say that is pretty much behind the saudis, and you have _ pretty much behind the saudis, and you have what is now the kind of schizophrenic experience where, you know, _ schizophrenic experience where, you know. sik— schizophrenic experience where, you know, six flags, the amusement park company, _ know, six flags, the amusement park company, the biggest amusement park company— company, the biggest amusement park company in _ company, the biggest amusement park company in the world is building a huge _ company in the world is building a huge amusement park outside riyadh. there is— huge amusement park outside riyadh. there is a _ huge amusement park outside riyadh. there is a film festival about to happen, — there is a film festival about to happen, i— there is a film festival about to happen, i believe next month in jeddah — happen, i believe next month in jeddah. there is a lot going on in saudi _ jeddah. there is a lot going on in saudi arabia which involves western media _ saudi arabia which involves western media companies, entertainment companies, and they appear to have had turned _ companies, and they appear to have had turned the page. a companies, and they appear to have had turned the page.— companies, and they appear to have had turned the page. a good point to brin: ou had turned the page. a good point to bring you in. — had turned the page. a good point to bring you in. are _ had turned the page. a good point to bring you in, are you _ had turned the page. a good point to bring you in, are you surprised i bring you in, are you surprised there is not more pushback, given what happened with jamal khashoggi? i think there was this two—year lull where nbs and the kingdom receded, they tried to take a back—seat, not be so public, and worked on domestic issues. so, that is what we have been sort of witnessing over this two—year period, and with the sale of newcastle, i think this is a sort of newcastle, i think this is a sort of signal that people are willing to turn the page, and as vivian described, so many companies still looking for markets, western companies have not been very successful or able to pushback on human rights issues. which in the kingdom, go beyond the brutal murder ofjamal khashoggi and also, worthwhile elevating and mentioning the activists and women and journalists, the market is hugely appealing. there is a very young population that is looking to benefit from the social liberalisation that was granted by mohammed bin salman, so there is a domestic dynamic here to the sports washing of the media washing that is taking place, and a soft power projection is very much tied to domestic drivers of reform in the kingdom. and of course it has broader regional and international implications as well. let broader regional and international implications as well.— implications as well. let me bring ou in implications as well. let me bring you in because — implications as well. let me bring you in because the _ implications as well. let me bring you in because the football i implications as well. let me bring you in because the football was i you in because the football was mentioned, that has been the big story this past week, the saudi led consortium buying newcastle football club. you are from the middle eastern magazine, and all the exciting coverage, it has been less about something we have noticed on this show which is, in the end, this is a media story, in a sense. tell us what this is.— us what this is. the sports broadcaster _ us what this is. the sports broadcaster got _ us what this is. the sports broadcaster got the i us what this is. the sports i broadcaster got the commercial rights to their premier league games and sporting events from around the world for the middle east and also a lot of the global south, for example, indonesia is a big market for sports. and what happened was in 2017 when there was a blockade imposed on qatar, what also happened, and this was imposed by saudi arabia, i might add, that sports company was banned inside saudi arabia but a few weeks later what you saw emerging was a new website that was being promoted by senior royal advisers on twitter like someone who was accused of helping orchestrate the murder of the journalist jamal khashoggi. helping orchestrate the murder of thejournalistjamal khashoggi. and the journalist jamal khashoggi. and this thejournalistjamal khashoggi. and this service is offering the sports of ring that the other sports company was offering. including the premier league? including the premier league? including the premier league. the sports company did some digging themselves, as well as the premier league, based discovered that the signal that was being used to add these games originated not from a colombian and nubian consortium, which is what the saudis were complaining, but from saudis were complaining, but from saudi arabia by a company owned by the saudi government. what happened after that, the people in qatar, they took this case to the world trade organisation to kind of get to the bottom of why this was happening, and they took saudi arabia to the wtr arbitration process and the wto ruled in favour of saudi arabia. sorry, not saudi arabia, qatar. and they accused saudi arabia of essentially not charging and prosecuting the people behind it. find charging and prosecuting the people behind it. : , ., , ., , charging and prosecuting the people behind it. : , . , ., , ., behind it. and this was a big deal for the premier _ behind it. and this was a big deal for the premier league, - behind it. and this was a big deal for the premier league, this i behind it. and this was a big deal for the premier league, this is i behind it. and this was a big deal. for the premier league, this is why newcastle, why it still is that takeover. it newcastle, why it still is that takeover. , :, newcastle, why it still is that takeover-— newcastle, why it still is that takeover. , . ., , , ., newcastle, why it still is that takeover. , . ., ,, ., ., takeover. it is a massive deal for the premier— takeover. it is a massive deal for the premier league _ takeover. it is a massive deal for the premier league because i takeover. it is a massive deal for the premier league because the | the premier league because the contract, for example, is worth roughly £500 million, and that is a lot of money for the premier league. and when that kind of newcastle deal became public, one of the first people to condemn it and also lobby the premier league and the uk government against this deal was that sports company. but then what also happened was that in early 2021, we saw saudi arabia and its blockade on qatar and as a result of that, what we also saw, only last week, was the sports company was allowed to air its gains and its programming inside saudi arabia. right, so, they we go. we should point out that saudi arabia has previously blocked the website of your title because what they say your title because what they say your paper is linked to qatar. yes. jim watterson, any thoughts on this? i think with all of it, it is so hard — i think with all of it, it is so hard to— i think with all of it, it is so hard to follow if you are not sort of entwined in the regional politics and it— of entwined in the regional politics and it is— of entwined in the regional politics and it is very, very difficult. i spent — and it is very, very difficult. i spent so _ and it is very, very difficult. i spent so long on this and even i struggle — spent so long on this and even i struggle with it. but basically you end up— struggle with it. but basically you end up with a story where the thing blocking _ end up with a story where the thing blocking a — end up with a story where the thing blocking a takeover of the premier league _ blocking a takeover of the premier league club appears to be more about who is— league club appears to be more about who is paying for the television rights — who is paying for the television rights than about the human rights in the _ rights than about the human rights in the country that is connected to the purchases. we had a fit and proper— the purchases. we had a fit and proper persons test but i think with all of— proper persons test but i think with all of this— proper persons test but i think with all of this it — proper persons test but i think with all of this it comes back to there is no _ all of this it comes back to there is no better place in the world than the uk _ is no better place in the world than the uk if— is no better place in the world than the uk if you want to buy an institution to improve your reputation, whether it is a football club or— reputation, whether it is a football club or a _ reputation, whether it is a football club or a media outlet, that is what we come _ club or a media outlet, that is what we come back to. and ultimately the saudis— we come back to. and ultimately the saudis have — we come back to. and ultimately the saudis have money on a scale that very few— saudis have money on a scale that very few british and investors and backers— very few british and investors and backers could dream of having. how ical is backers could dream of having. how typical is all— backers could dream of having. how typical is all of— backers could dream of having. hm" typical is all of this? everything we have talked today about the way the gulf states use the media is an form of soft power.— form of soft power. well, as metal and that the _ form of soft power. well, as metal and that the gulf, _ form of soft power. well, as metal and that the gulf, i _ form of soft power. well, as metal and that the gulf, i think— form of soft power. well, as metal and that the gulf, i think we i form of soft power. well, as metal| and that the gulf, i think we should broaden the scope, this is not unique to saudi arabia. qatar, uae are equally involved in investing and using the lady and trying to project self power. they�*ve got a lot of my to throw around. they do indeed and part of the reason the multi—year rift between saudi arabia, the uae, qatarand bahrain was qatar�*s aljazeera media station, which was seen as an extension of the qatari government, it didn�*t provide accurate or honest reporting on regional issues, was not reflective of regional trends and realities and one of the demands issued against qatar in the 27 ? 2017 rift was that aljazeera be shut down. and so it is important to see how that sort of coverage of regional issues and of neighbouring countries will change, if at all, once now that the rift has been resolved as of january this year. and so this is very much tied to deeper dynamics of regional competition where you have these small countries, particularly the uae and qatar, trying to project power through sports, few ? through investments in the media, through their own stations and channels, through buying football teams. and it is directed to politics back home, regionaltensions, and again to improve their image in western countries. :, ., to improve their image in western countries. :, ~' , ., to improve their image in western countries. ., . ., countries. thank you so much, that is us talking — countries. thank you so much, that is us talking about _ countries. thank you so much, that is us talking about gulf— countries. thank you so much, that is us talking about gulf state i is us talking about gulf state franchises and british brands but let�*s now turn to a massive us brand that has arrived on british shores, and if that is not a massive handbrake turn, i don�*t know what is. darren styles, you are the managing director and publisher of rolling stone uk edition, what made you think that an all american magazine would work over here right now? ~ :, magazine would work over here right now? ~ . ., , magazine would work over here right now? . ., , ., , now? well, and factors, really. rolling stone _ now? well, and factors, really. rolling stone is _ now? well, and factors, really. rolling stone is fundamentally | now? well, and factors, really. | rolling stone is fundamentally a music magazine but it is also always been political, sometimes with a small pea, sometimes with a big pee, and also about film and tv. and in terms of netflix, a little about people consuming television and music now on a volume previously unseen, the range of choice that exists, i think as a commentary piece, rolling stone then as now it does an amazing job. 550,000 subscribers across the us see rolling stone every month, and so i think with the way that the magazine market has changed in the uk, the music magazine market in particular, over the last year or 18 months, there has been some attrition and i think a space has opened up for a more generous title. and so the numbers play that way i hope i am wrong. numbers play that way i hope i am wronu. �* ., ., ., , numbers play that way i hope i am wronu.�* ., ., ., ., wrong. i've got a lovely copy of it here. £6 95, _ wrong. i've got a lovely copy of it here. £6 95, comes _ wrong. i've got a lovely copy of it here. £6 95, comes out - wrong. i've got a lovely copy of it here. £6 95, comes out every i wrong. i've got a lovely copy of it | here. £6 95, comes out every two months. looking from the adverts, it is sort of aimed at quite high end moneyed readers, it is that who you are aiming at? who is going to buy it, do you think? the are aiming at? who is going to buy it, do you think?— are aiming at? who is going to buy it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone _ it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader _ it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader in _ it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader in the - it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader in the us i it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader in the us is i it, do you think? the average age of rolling stone reader in the us is a i rolling stone reader in the us is a 41, and i think that people who buy paper magazines pretend to be elder because that was the habit at the time. i think young people get their news and entertainment information now entirely digitally. but news and entertainment information now entirely digitally.— now entirely digitally. but do you think ou now entirely digitally. but do you think you can _ now entirely digitally. but do you think you can get _ now entirely digitally. but do you think you can get people - now entirely digitally. but do you think you can get people ? i now entirely digitally. but do you j think you can get people ? young people of tick—tock and youtube to buy this? people of tick-tock and youtube to bu this? ., . , people of tick-tock and youtube to bu this? ., ., , , , people of tick-tock and youtube to bu this? :, . , , , ., buy this? potentially, yes, our aspiration _ buy this? potentially, yes, our aspiration is _ buy this? potentially, yes, our aspiration is to _ buy this? potentially, yes, our aspiration is to serve - buy this? potentially, yes, our aspiration is to serve the i buy this? potentially, yes, our. aspiration is to serve the audience thatis aspiration is to serve the audience that is already there. q magazine closed last year. attitude is at the peak of its powers, it was doing 200,000 cupboard ? copies a month, even when it finished it was 35 to 40,000 copies a month, and for a publisher our size, that is a great proposition. if we can get anything close to that, that is good. it�*s a coffee table proposition and i think that six people in that 35 to 45 age bracket. : ., , , that six people in that 35 to 45 age bracket. w' , g . ., ,., bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know— bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know if— bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know if you _ bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know if you have _ bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know if you have seen i bracket. tickly well. jim watterson, i don't know if you have seen the i i don�*t know if you have seen the magazine but what are your on this? i think anyone who is launching a new publication at the moment is a very brave — new publication at the moment is a very brave person, especially a print— very brave person, especially a print onew _ very brave person, especially a print one,... he very brave person, especially a print one.---— print one,... he looks brave, courageous- _ print one,... he looks brave, courageous. i— print one,... he looks brave, courageous. ithink— print one,... he looks brave, courageous. ithink i - print one,... he looks brave, courageous. i think i would i print one,... he looks brave, l courageous. i think i would like print one,... he looks brave, i courageous. i think i would like to know how much _ courageous. i think i would like to know how much is _ courageous. i think i would like to know how much is going - courageous. i think i would like to know how much is going to i courageous. i think i would like to know how much is going to be i know how much is going to be distinctively british and how much is going _ distinctively british and how much is going to — distinctively british and how much is going to be content from the us versioh _ is going to be content from the us version. because they are quite different— version. because they are quite different styles between the types of publications. it is different styles between the types of publications.— of publications. it is looking very british at the _ of publications. it is looking very british at the moment, - of publications. it is looking very british at the moment, it's i of publications. it is looking very british at the moment, it's got l of publications. it is looking very i british at the moment, it's got paul british at the moment, it�*s got paul mason, ash sarkar. british at the moment, it's got paul mason, ash sarkar.— british at the moment, it's got paul mason, ash sarkar. hundred percent ofthe mason, ash sarkar. hundred percent of the launch — mason, ash sarkar. hundred percent of the launch issue _ mason, ash sarkar. hundred percent of the launch issue has _ mason, ash sarkar. hundred percent of the launch issue has been - of the launch issue has been generated in the uk. there are 15 additions of rolling stone around the world, the original us one and 14 others, australia, south korea, china, japan, argentina, colombia, and so on. and all of that content goes into a big content pool and any licence can take what they want from that pool at any point. going forward, we have a licence that allows us to take 50% of any addition from the us and then beyond that from overseas, but we had such a strong music market here, well, and film industry, that we will lead on british content.— on british content. vivian, does fortune have — on british content. vivian, does fortune have a _ on british content. vivian, does fortune have a print _ on british content. vivian, does fortune have a print version, i on british content. vivian, does i fortune have a print version, still? i�*m afraid i don�*t know. absolutely. i'm afraid i don't know. absolutely. it i'm afraid i don't know. absolutely. it has _ i'm afraid i don't know. absolutely. it has several. it has a global editioh — it has several. it has a global edition. unlike what darren was saying. — edition. unlike what darren was saying. we _ edition. unlike what darren was saying, we pretty much print the same _ saying, we pretty much print the same magazine throughout the world, i same magazine throughout the world, i believe _ same magazine throughout the world, i believe. and it still does get millions— i believe. and it still does get millions of readers. at this time. so, millions of readers. at this time. so. it— millions of readers. at this time. so. it is— millions of readers. at this time. so, it is not... i hearwhatjim is saying — so, it is not... i hearwhatjim is saying i— so, it is not... i hearwhatjim is saying ithink— so, it is not... i hearwhatjim is saying. ithink time so, it is not... i hearwhatjim is saying. i think time used to get something like 5 million readers a week, _ something like 5 million readers a week, it _ something like 5 million readers a week, it possibly gets half of that now _ week, it possibly gets half of that now but — week, it possibly gets half of that now. but it still does get, you know. — now. but it still does get, you know. in— now. but it still does get, you know. in a _ now. but it still does get, you know, in a seven figures, at least. so, know, in a seven figures, at least. so. rolling — know, in a seven figures, at least. so, rolling stone, i guess, looking at it from _ so, rolling stone, i guess, looking at it from an— so, rolling stone, i guess, looking at it from an american kind of perspective, it has a huge name and it is known— perspective, it has a huge name and it is known for being a kind of writers — it is known for being a kind of writers magazine. 30, it is known for being a kind of writers magazine.— it is known for being a kind of writers magazine. it is known for being a kind of writers mauazine. , ., ., a writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i think— writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i think we _ writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i think we are _ writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i think we are all _ writers magazine. so, very good luck is what i think we are all saying. i is what i think we are all saying. i�*m afraid that is all we have time for today but thank you very much to all my guests, the media show will be back next week at the same time. for today, thanks for watching, and goodbye. this is bbc news. i�*m lukwesa burak. the headlines at 5pm. side by side in grief — the prime minister and leader of the opposition visit the scene where tory mp sir david amess was killed yesterday. police say they�*re treating the killing as a terrorist incident, as tributes are paid from across the world of politics. he was a man of the people. he was absolutely there for everyone. he was a much—loved parliamentarian. to me, he was a dear and loyalfriend. the killing has resurfaced the dilemma facing mps over security at their surgeries, and whether it would be safer to hold them virtually. we don�*t want to become like other countries, other mps when they visit us, they are aghast that we meet our

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