Hello, welcome to the media share. In a moment we are going to talk about Channel 4, its new headquarters in leeds have just opened and the Ion'>Government ConsultatIon on whether to privatIse it Is into the final straight. We will hear the case for privatIsatIon from a former Channel Five ceo and if youre wondering whether any of thIs has anything to do with the Telly Watch we will unpack that, too. First, though, lets talk to Jack Thorne who Is an acclaimed screenwriter who has worked on hIs dark materials, shameless and skins among many others. And at thIs years Edinburgh Tv Festival he gave Taggart Lecture which Is one of the most high profile moments for the Tv Industry and in that, he was blunt, telling the Audience Tv has failed dIsabled people at the and totally. Welcome to the Media Show. Can you explain to us in more detail why you came to that stark conclusIon about the state of the Tv Industry . Primarily because it Is true. And i think that the argument must be broken down into three parts. 0ne must be broken down into three parts. One Is that if you look at figures for representatIon, dIsabled people are chronically underrepresented by 20 of our populatIon are dIsabled and yet only 8. 2 of on Screen Talent are dIsabled. 5. 4 of people working Behind The Screens and if you look at the executive level, it goes right down to 3. 6 so there Is a real problem in terms of dIsabled people being employed within the industry. The second thing, and related to that Is the stories that are told about dIsability are few and far between. I can only think of a handful of shows in my lifetime and it Is very hard to get those dIsabled stories told. Ive been trying for years to tell dIsabled stories on conventIonal Drama Budgets and every time ive been able to tell a dIsabled story on tv it has been with a reduced budget because that Is the only way of doing it. And we need to be elevated and we need to be put into the mainstream and the reason why, and thIs was i think the reason why thIs speech belonged thIs year Is that i think that what covid showed beyond anything else Is the able Is rife in our country and the fact that dIsabled people were shut out of conversatIons and ignored in the statIstics as to how many deaths were put into different call them, how many dIsabled debts, those with underlying Ions'>Health ConditIons were sorta relegated out by mainstream statIstics and if you look at Care Homes and dIsabled people in those homes there was a massive over proportIon of dIsabled deaths of the first 100,000 covid deaths 61,000 were dIsabled. And then the third thing, and the thing that im particularly aiming at Is that The Spaces in which we make our work are inaccessible and that dIsabled people cannot make shows because there Is frequently huge barriers to their being able to get into their being able to get into The Spaces where we make our work. ~ � ,. , ~ The Spaces where we make our work. ~ � ,. , ~. , work. Well, lets work through some of the work. Well, lets work through some of the Issues work. Well, lets work through some of the Issues youve some of the Issues youve raIsed in thIs speech with the help of some people who i know you know. An actor who plays izzy in Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street and the Co Founder of Triple C which runs dIsabled artIst networking community. We also have brainy arnold, Drama Producer and Co Director of the deaf and dIsabled people in tv organIsatIon. And then from the creative Diversity Network Deborah Williams Is with us and the thIs worked across to promote equality and diversity. I know you all paid close attentIon to Jacks Speech. Did it resonate with you . Did it describe the world you recognIse, brIony . Same at 100 . It was startling and i messaged jack straight afterwards and said i was actually in tears because it resonated so much. Actually in tears because it resonated so much. And that Is the key problem. Resonated so much. And that Is the key problem. That resonated so much. And that Is the key problem. That Is resonated so much. And that Is the key problem. That Is the i the key problem. That Is the key Issue the key problem. That Is the key Issue. I am a dIsabled wheelchair user, i am a Drama Producer wheelchair user, i am a Drama Producer but my god they have not made producer but my god they have not made it easy for me. It has not made it easy for me. It has not been not made it easy for me. It has not been handed out to me on a Silver not been handed out to me on a Silver platter, that Is for sure Silver platter, that Is for sure. And in terms of access i fundamentally agree with jack. There fundamentally agree with jack. There Is fundamentally agree with jack. There Is no access. It has been made there Is no access. It has been made fundamentally difficult for me made fundamentally difficult for me to get anyone to do my joh for me to get anyone to do my joh in for me to get anyone to do my job. In fact, ive had to keep people job. In fact, ive had to keep people tell me, i dont think you should do producing. I dont you should do producing. I dont think you will work on televIsIon. You are building at all locatIons. It Is only through tenacity and my own will that through tenacity and my own will that i have gone, you know what. Will that i have gone, you know what, watch me. I have had to be manhandled. Ive had to around be manhandled. Ive had to around in be manhandled. Ive had to around in orderto be manhandled. Ive had to around in order to get to locatIons. I have to put my humility locatIons. I have to put my humility to one side, in a way. I have humility to one side, in a way. I have to humility to one side, in a way. I have to allow people to help me in i have to allow people to help me in ways that i dont wIsh to be me in ways that i dont wIsh to he helped me in ways that i dont wIsh to be helped. I have had Ions'>Toilet SituatIons where ive had to physically be manhandled into a toilel physically be manhandled into a Toilet And Firm across a un covered Toilet And Firm across a un covered floor in order to be able covered floor in order to be able to covered floor in order to be able to go and access a facility able to go and access a facility on a set because i was the only facility on a set because i was the only one available to me. The the only one available to me. The next the only one available to me. The next one was miles away because the next one was miles away because we were in the middle of nowhere. But it Is about altitude of nowhere. But it Is about attitude. It Is about people believing and seeing something that they think they understand when that they think they understand when actually they dont. And it Is about when actually they dont. And it Is about corresponding and talking it Is about corresponding and talking to People Like myself and so talking to People Like myself and so many others amazing in thIs industry about what we can actually thIs industry about what we can actually achieve and what we can actually do. The problem as there can actually do. The problem as there Is can actually do. The problem as there Is a can actually do. The problem as there Is a lot of prejudice we have there Is a lot of prejudice we have to there Is a lot of prejudice we have to fight against to get there have to fight against to get there. If have to fight against to get there. ,. ,. There. If it Is your experience as a producer there. If it Is your experience as a producer and there. If it Is your experience as a producer and jacks as a producer and Jacks Experience as a screenwriter, surely, what about you as an actor . ,. Actor . Very much the same. I sent actor . Very much the same. I spent most actor . Very much the same. I spent most of actor . Very much the same. I spent most of my actor . Very much the same. I spent most of my early actor . Very much the same. I j spent most of my early Career Being spent most of my early Career Being auditIoned spent most of my early Career Being auditIoned in spent most of my early Career Being auditIoned in leicester. Being auditIoned in leicester square, being auditIoned in leicester square, in being auditIoned in leicester square, in corridors, being auditIoned in leicesterl square, in corridors, outside, having square, in corridors, outside, having the square, in corridors, outside, having the dIsabled square, in corridors, outside, having the dIsabled toilet square, in corridors, outside, having the dIsabled toilet Is l having the dIsabled toilet Is my having the dIsabled toilet Is nry green having the dIsabled toilet Is my green room. Having the dIsabled toilet Is my green room. Jobs having the dIsabled toilet Is my green room. Jobs and l my green room. Jobs and additIons my green room. Jobs and additIons taking my green room. Jobs and additIons taking off my green room. Jobs and additIons taking off me. My green room. Jobs and additIons taking off me when they additIons taking off me when they realIsed additIons taking off me when they realIsed i additIons taking off me when they realIsed i was additIons taking off me when they realIsed i was dIsabled i they realIsed i was dIsabled because they realIsed i was dIsabled because it they realIsed i was dIsabled because it didnt they realIsed i was dIsabled because it didnt match they realIsed i was dIsabled because it didnt match myi they realIsed i was dIsabled i because it didnt match my cv. Just peoples because it didnt match my cv. Just peoples assumptIons, just peoples assumptIons, really~ just peoples assumptIons, really. Under just peoples assumptIons, really. Under prejudice. I just peoples assumptIons, i really. Under prejudice. The fact really. Under prejudice. The fact that really. Under prejudice. The fact that youre really. Under prejudice. The fact that youre always really. Under prejudice. The fact that youre always the I Fact that youre always the Person Fact that youre always the person who fact that youre always the person who goes fact that youre always the person who goes on fact that youre always the person who goes on and L Fact that youre always the L Person who goes on and has fact that youre always the person who goes on and has to make person who goes on and has to make It Person who goes on and has to make it alL Person who goes on and has to make it all right person who goes on and has to make it all right with make it all right with everybody make it all right with everybody to make it all right with everybody to be make it all right with everybody to be all. Make it all right with everybody to be all right with you everybody to be all right with you it everybody to be all right with you it Is everybody to be all right with you. It Is that everybody to be all right with you. It Is that continual you. It Is that continual fight you. It Is that continual Fight It you. It Is that continual Fight It Is you. It Is that continual fight. It Is not you. It Is that continual fight. It Is notjust you. It Is that continual fight. It Is notjust likei fight. It Is notjust like someone fight. It Is notjust like someone going fight. It Is notjust like someone going in fight. It Is notjust like someone going in and| fight. It Is notjust like someone going in and doing the Ob Someone going in and doing the job for someone going in and doing the job for the someone going in and doing the job for the first someone going in and doing the job for the first time someone going in and doing the job for the first time which someone going in and doing the job for the first time which Is. Job for the first time which Is what job for the first time which Is what all job for the first time which Is what all get job for the first time which Is what all get Nervous Job for the first time which Is what all get nervous on job for the first time which Is what all get nervous on her. What all get nervous on her first what all get nervous on her first day what all get nervous on her first day of what all get nervous on her first day of a what all get nervous on her first day of a job. What all get nervous on her first day of a job. You what all get nervous on her first day of a job. You dontj first day of a job. You dont have first day of a job. You dont have to first day of a job. You dont have to go first day of a job. You dont have to go in first day of a job. You dont have to go in and first day of a job. You dont have to go in and an first day of a job. You dont i have to go in and an advocate for your have to go in and an advocate for your community have to go in and an advocate for your community and have to go in and an advocatej for your community and make everyone for your community and make everyone else for your community and make everyone else comfortable. For your community and make. Everyone else comfortable. You have everyone else comfortable. You have to everyone else comfortable. You have to advocate everyone else comfortable. You have to advocate for everyone else comfortable. You have to advocate for your everyone else comfortable. You have to advocate for your own l have to advocate for your own access have to advocate for your own access and have to advocate for your own access. And that have to advocate for your own access. And that always have to advocate for your ownl access. And that always makes you feel access. And that always makes you feel sometimes access. And that always makes you feel sometimes like access. And that always makes you feel sometimes like a you feel sometimes like a problem you feel sometimes like a problem or you feel sometimes like a problem or you you feel sometimes like a problem or you become. You feel sometimes like a. Problem or you become thIs Issue-problem'>Issue Problem or you become thIs Issue whereas problem or you become thIs Issue whereas actually, problem or you become thIs Issue whereas actually, if i Issue whereas actually, if everywhere, Issue whereas actually, if everywhere, Issue'>Jack Issue whereas actually, if everywhere, jack Is Issue whereas actually, if i everywhere, jack Is saying, Issue whereas actually, if everywhere, jack Is saying, was accessible everywhere, jack Is saying, was accessible and everywhere, jack Is saying, was accessible and access everywhere, jack Is saying, was accessible and access was accessible and access was thought accessible and access was thought through accessible and access was thought through youd i accessible and access was thought through youd be| accessible and access was i thought through youd be able to go thought through youd be able to Go On thought through youd be able to Go On and thought through youd be able to Go On and do thought through youd be able to Go On and do your thought through youd be able to Go On and do yourjob thought through youd be able to Go On and do yourjob and i to Go On and do yourjob and that to Go On and do yourjob and that Is to Go On and do yourjob and that Is where to Go On and do yourjob and that Is where it to Go On and do yourjob and that Is where it Is to Go On and do yourjob and that Is where it Is exciting. L that Is where it Is exciting. That that Is where it Is exciting. That Is that Is where it Is exciting. That Is where that Is where it Is exciting. That Is where dIsabled i that Is where it Is exciting. I that Is where dIsabled people, we are that Is where dIsabled people, we are very that Is where dIsabled people, we are very solutIon that Is where dIsabled people, we are very solutIon focused i that Is where dIsabled people, | we are very solutIon focused as people we are very solutIon focused as people and we are very solutIon focused as people and therefore we are very solutIon focused as people and therefore we we are very solutIon focused as people and therefore we are i people and therefore we are very people and therefore we are very creative people and therefore we are very creative and people and therefore we are very creative and actually. People and therefore we are i very creative and actually when dIsability very creative and actually when dIsability Is very creative and actually when dIsability Is seeping very creative and actually when dIsability Is seeping through i dIsability Is seeping through into the dIsability Is seeping through into the Isability'>Media DIsability Is seeping through into the media Isability'>People DIsability Is seeping through into the media people get. Into the media people get excited into the media people get excited about into the media people get excited about it into the media people get excited about it because i into the media people get| excited about it because it into the media people get. Excited about it because it Is creatively excited about it because it Is creatively interesting excited about it because it Is creatively interesting and i creatively interesting and exciting creatively interesting and exciting. That creatively interesting and exciting. That Is creatively interesting and exciting. That Is what i creatively interesting and exciting. That Is what Is. Creatively interesting and i exciting. That Is what Is also mIssing exciting. That Is what Is also mIssing Is exciting. That Is what Is also mIssing Is that exciting. That Is what Is also mIssing Is that people exciting. That Is what Is also mIssing Is that people see. Exciting. That Is what Is alsoi mIssing Is that people see us as a mIssing Is that people see us as a lesson mIssing Is that people see us as a lesson actually mIssing Is that people see us as a lesson actually we mIssing Is that people see us as a lesson actually we add l mIssing Is that people see us| as a lesson actually we add to as a lesson actually we add to a situatIon as a lesson actually we add to a situatIon. We as a lesson actually we add to a situatIon. We are as a lesson actually we add to a situatIon. We are one as a lesson actually we add to a situatIon. We are one in as a lesson actually we add toj a situatIon. We are one in five people a situatIon. We are one in five people so a situatIon. We are one in five people so if a situatIon. We are one in five people so if you a situatIon. We are one in five people so if you do a situatIon. We are one in five people so if you do 20 a situatIon. We are one in five people so if you do 20 of. A situatIon. We are one in five i people so if you do 20 of your teenager people so if you do 20 of your teenager mIssing people so if you do 20 of your teenager mIssing 20 people so if you do 20 of your teenager mIssing 20 of people so if you do 20 of your teenager mIssing 20 of the I Teenager mIssing 20 of the Voices Teenager mIssing 20 of the voices and teenager mIssing 20 of the voices and that teenager mIssing 20 of the voices and that usually teenager mIssing 20 of the voices and that usually that i voices and that usually that means voices and that usually that means youre voices and that usually that means youre mIssing i voices and that usually that means youre mIssing out i voices and that usually that. Means youre mIssing out on ideas means youre mIssing out on ideas. ,. ,. , ideas. Not that there should be our ob ideas. Not that there should be yourjob any ideas. Not that there should be yourjob any more ideas. Not that there should be yourjob any more than ideas. Not that there should be yourjob any more than it i ideas. Not that there should be yourjob any more than it Is i yourjob any more than it Is anyone elses but i wonder, all four of you, when you look at these experiences playing out and you have them yourself, how do you explain those to everyone that youre telling about them . Why do you think they are happening, giving, i dont suppose many of you will colleagues would be going to work actively wanted to make a difficult, so why do we think it Is being made so difficult . I would say that the work we do cd and i would say that the work we do cd and Is i would say that the work we do cd and Is very i would say that the work we do cd and Is very much cd and Is very much research based i cd and Is very much i research based E Book cd and Is very much research based E Book at Evidence Research based E Book at Evidence And Research based E Book at evidence and we research based E Book at evidence and we have i research based E Book at i evidence and we have done Surveys Evidence and we have done surveys and evidence and we have done surveys and our evidence and we have done surveys and our Work Evidence and we have done surveys and our work on i evidence and we have done i surveys and our work on other peoples surveys and our work on other peoples work surveys and our work on other peoples Work Show surveys and our work on other peoples Work Show Is surveys and our work on other peoples Work Show Is there i surveys and our work on other peoples Work Show Is there Is| surveys and our work on otherl peoples Work Show Is there Is a great peoples Work Show Is there Is a great level peoples Work Show Is there Is a great level of peoples Work Show Is there Is a great level of ignorance great level of ignorance adequate great level of ignorance adequate level great level of ignorance adequate level of great level of ignorance adequate level of fear i great level of ignorance. Adequate level of fear so instead adequate level of fear so instead of adequate level of fear so instead of embracing i adequate level of Fear Sol instead of embracing that adequate level of fear so i instead of embracing that in finding instead of embracing that in finding ways instead of embracing that in finding ways to instead of embracing that in finding ways to talk instead of embracing that in finding ways to talk about i instead of embracing that in. Finding ways to talk about that honestly finding ways to talk about that honestly and finding ways to talk about that honestly and openly, finding ways to talk about that honestly and openly, People L honestly and openly, people ignore honestly and openly, people ignore it honestly and openly, people ignore it and honestly and openly, people ignore it and pretend honestly and openly, people ignore it and pretend it i honestly and openly, people ignore it and pretend it Is i honestly and openly, people i ignore it and pretend it Is not happening ignore it and pretend it Is not happening so, ignore it and pretend it Is not happening so, if ignore it and pretend it Is not happening so, if you ignore it and pretend it Is not happening so, if you dont. Happening so, if you dont employ happening so, if you dont employ dIsabled happening so, if you dont employ dIsabled person, i happening so, if you dont employ dIsabled person, then you have employ dIsabled person, then you have not employ dIsabled person, then you have not got employ dIsabled person, then you have not got to employ dIsabled person, then you have not got to have i employ dIsabled person, then you have not got to have a i you have not got to have a conversatIon you have not got to have a conversatIon about you have not got to have a Ion'>I ConversatIon about dIsability. Sorry conversatIon about dIsability. Sorry to conversatIon about dIsability. Sorry to interrupt conversatIon about dIsability. Sorry to interrupt but conversatIon about dIsability. Sorry to interrupt but the Ion'>I ConversatIon about dIsability. Sorry to interrupt but the Word Fear there. Sorry to interrupt but the Word Fearthere. Itjumped sorry to interrupt but the Word Fear there. Itjumped out to me. Help me understand more what you mean about that and id be interested to hearfrom the other three as well. Does the other three as well. Does theIssue the other three as well. Does the Issue of fear come into thIs . I the Issue of fear come into thIs . ~ the Issue of fear come into thIs . ,. , thIs . I think fear Is interesting thIs . I think fear Is| interesting because thIs . I think fear Is i interesting because it Is thIs . I think fear Is interesting because it Is not thIs . I think fear Is interesting because it Is not a word~~~ interesting because it Is not a word~~~ it interesting because it Is not a word~~~ it Is interesting because it Is not a word~~~ Isa'>It Isa interesting because it Is not a word. It Is a word interesting because it Is not a word. It Is a word that interesting because it Is not a word. It Is a word that has i word. It Is a word that has come word. It Is a word that has come out word. It Is a word that has come out of word. It Is a word that has come out of our word. It Is a word that has come out of our research i word. It Is a word that has i come out of our research from within come out of our research from within the come out of our research from within the industry come out of our research from within the industry that come out of our research from within the industry that they. Within the industry that they are afraid within the industry that they are afraid that within the industry that they are afraid that if within the industry that they are afraid that if they within the industry that they are afraid that if they say i are afraid that if they say something are afraid that if they say something its are afraid that if they say something its the are afraid that if they say something its the wrong j are afraid that if they say i something its the wrong thing or if they something its the wrong thing or if they do something its the wrong thing or if they do Something Something its the wrong thing or if they do something its i or if they do something its the wrong or if they do something its the wrong thing or if they do something its the wrong thing and or if they do something its| the wrong thing and theyre going the wrong thing and theyre going to the wrong thing and theyre going to get the wrong thing and theyre going to get called the wrong thing and theyre going to get called out i the wrong thing and theyre going to get called out on l the wrong Thing And Theyrel going to get called out on it. And going to get called out on it. And that going to get called out on it. And that Is going to get called out on it. And that Is screaming going to get called out on it. And that Is screaming loud l going to get called out on it. And that Is screaming loud and clear and that Is screaming loud and clear from and that Is screaming loud and clear from my and that Is screaming loud and clear from my research and that Is screaming loud and clear from my research over. And that Is screaming loud and | clear from my research over the last clear from my research over the test three clear from my research over the last three years. Clear from my research over the last three years. And clear from my research over the last three years. And i clear from my research over the last three years. And i want clear from my research over the last three years. And i want to i last three years. And i want to say that last three years. And i want to say that 5~4 last three years. And i want to say that 5. 4 of last three years. And i want to say that 5. 4 of People Last three years. And i want to say that 5. 4 of people in say that 5. 4 of people in broadcasting say that 5. 4 of people in broadcasting are say that 5. 4 of people in broadcasting are dIsabled | say that 5. 4 of people in L Broadcasting are dIsabled in offscreen broadcasting are dIsabled in Off Screen roles. Broadcasting are dIsabled in Off Screen roles. 20 broadcasting are dIsabled in Off Screen roles. 20 of. Broadcasting are dIsabled in| Off Screen roles. 20 of the mutatIon Off Screen roles. 20 of the mutatIon Is Off Screen roles. 20 of the populatIon Is dIsabled Off Screen roles. 20 of the populatIon Is dIsabled and l Off Screen roles. 20 of the. PopulatIon Is dIsabled and the Is-populatIon'>TsunamIs PopulatIon Is dIsabled and the tsunamIs. That populatIon Is dIsabled and the tsunamIs. That tells populatIon Is dIsabled and the tsunamIs. That tells you populatIon Is dIsabled and the tsunamIs. That tells you thati tsunamIs. That tells you that people tsunamIs. That tells you that pe0pte are tsunamIs. That tells you that pe0pte are hot tsunamIs. That tells you that people are not experiencingl people are not experiencing dIsability people are not experiencing dIsability in people are not experiencing dIsability in day to day people are not experiencing dIsability in day to Day Life| dIsability in day to Day Life and dIsability in day to Day Life and working dIsability in day to Day Life and working with dIsability in day to Day Life and working with dIsabled i and working with dIsabled pe0pte. And working with dIsabled pe0pte. Living and working with dIsabled people, living with and working with dIsabled i people, living with dIsabled pe0pte~ people, living with dIsabled pe0pte. Which people, living with dIsabled people. Which means people, living with dIsabled people. Which means that. People, living with dIsabled people. Which means that when you come people. Which means that when you come into people. Which means that when you come into a people. Which means that when you come into a closed you come into a closed environment, you come into a closed environment, which i you come into a closed environment, which a i you come into a closed environment, which a Work Environment environment, which a Work Environment Is, environment, which a Work Environment Is, and environment, which a Work Environment Is, and especially if that environment Is, and especially if that on environment Is, and especially if that on Ion-environment'>LocatIon Environment Is, and especially if that on Ion-or-environment'>LocatIon Or Environment Is, and especially if that on locatIon or in if that on locatIon or in studIo, if that on locatIon or in studIo, within if that on locatIon or in| studIo, within industry, if that on locatIon or in studIo, within industry, you are looking studIo, within industry, you are looking at studIo, within industry, you are looking at something i studIo, within industry, you. Are looking at something that you dont are looking at something that you dont know. Are looking at something that you dont know. That are looking at something that you dont know. That you are looking at something that you dont know. That you do. Are looking at something that. You dont know. That you do not understamt you dont know. That you do not understand. That you dont know. That you do not understand. That you you dont know. That you do not understand. That you are understand. That you are fearful understand. That you are fearful of. Understand. That you are fearful of. And understand. That you are fearful of. And you understand. That you are fearful of. And you do. Understand. That you are| fearful of. And you do not understand. That you are fearful of. And you do not have time fearful of. And you do not have time to fearful of. And you do not have time to work fearful of. And you do not have time to work that fearful of. And you do not have time to work that through fearful of. And you do not have time to work that through as l fearful of. And you do not have| time to work that through as an individual time to work that through as an individual so time to work that through as an individual so the time to work that through as an individual so the short time to work that through as an individual so the short cut time to work that through as an individual so the short cut Is individual so the short cut Is to ignore individual so the short cut Is to ignore it individual so the short cut Is to ignore it to ignore it. Jack, lets bring ou in. To ignore it. Jack, lets bring you in. There to ignore it. Jack, lets bring you in. There Is to ignore it. Jack, lets bring you in. There Is not to ignore it. Jack, lets bring you in. There Is not much i to ignore it. Jack, lets bring you in. There Is not much to say other you in. There Is not much to say other than you in. There Is not much to say other than what you in. There Is not much to say other than what they you in. There Is not much to i say other than what they have already said. Thus the thing about the lecture. I was given thIs platform but really i was speaking on behalf of the community and thats all i tried to do and all three of these people actually read the speech before i it and all three gave notes on how to get the speech as strong as can be and there Is a very big reason to be angry here that they set thIs target that with broadcasters of doubling dIsability by thIs year. In fact delayed a year by covid. And there was just massive, massive failures that instead of the sort of 5 , Io incremental group that we needed there was not. 9 . Tv Is claiming that it Is opening its arms and exclaiming that Is changing and its not. It Is just not. In changing and its not. It Is just not changing and its not. It Is ust not. ,. Just not. In your speech you direct the just not. In your speech you direct the address just not. In your speech you direct the address that just not. In your speech you direct the address that a just not. In your speech you | direct the address that a new Isability'>Server DIsability Is the forgotten diversity on the one everyone weaves out of speeches. BrIony, presumably you would agree with that. Wholeheartedly. It Is important wholeheartedly. It Is important we raIse wholeheartedly. It Is important we raIse any diverse group because we raIse any diverse group because the problem with the media because the problem with the Media Industry Is its full of white Media Industry Is its full of white modular cIs men and we have white modular cIs men and we have to white modular cIs men and we have to make sure that we are telling have to make sure that we are telling created diverse we need to have telling created diverse we need to have a telling created diverse we need to have a diverse group of people to have a diverse group of people behind the camera writing, people behind the camera writing, creating, finding those writing, creating, finding those stories but also telling the stories in front of the camera the stories in front of the camera and thats why we need to see camera and thats why we need to see those spaces. When i was growing to see those spaces. When i was growing up to see those spaces. When i was growing up i did not see People Like myself and it so important for any like myself and it so important for any child, whether they are black. For any child, whether they are black, white, dIsabled, asian, trans. Black, white, dIsabled, asian, trans. To black, white, dIsabled, asian, trans, to see themselves reflected back on screen. And therefore reflected back on screen. And therefore that has to come organically from the people behind organically from the people Behind The Screens as well, implementing those stories jack said, implementing those stories jack said. Hes implementing those stories jack said, hes been struggling to. Et said, hes been struggling to get their said, hes been struggling to get their stories told in thIs Isjack get their stories told in thIs IsJack Thorne. | get their stories told in thIs Is Jack Thorne. Get their stories told in thIs Is Jack Thorne. I would add to that. Is Jack Thorne. I would add to that the Is Jack Thorne. I would add to that. The initial Is Jack Thorne. I would add to that. The initial questIon Is Jack Thorne. I would add to l that. The initial questIon made out to that. The initial questIon made out to the that. The initial questIon made out to the field that. The initial questIon made out to the field dIsabled out to the field dIsabled people out to the field dIsabled people. Yes out to the field dIsabled people. Yes. TelevIsIon| out to the field dIsabled people. Yes. TelevIsIon has because people. Yes. TelevIsIon has because it people. Yes. TelevIsIon has because it lacks people. Yes. TelevIsIon has because it lacks ambitIon. People. Yes. TelevIsIon has. Because it lacks ambitIon and imaginatIon because it lacks ambitIon and imaginatIon about because it lacks ambitIon and imaginatIon about the imaginatIon about the possibility imaginatIon about the possibility of imaginatIon about the possibility of what imaginatIon about the possibility of what dIsabled People Possibility of what dIsabled people can possibility of what dIsabled people can do possibility of what dIsabled people can do and possibility of what dIsabled people can do and who possibility of what dIsabled people can do and who dIsabled people people can do and who dIsabled people are people can do and who dIsabled people are and people can do and who dIsabled people are and it people can do and who dIsabled people are and it Is people can do and who dIsabled people are and it Is a people can do and who dIsabled people are and it Is a simple people are and it Is a simple as that people are and it Is a simple as that if people are and it Is a simple as that. If you people are and it Is a simple as that. If you live people are and it Is a simple as that. If you live in people are and it Is a simple as that. If you live in a people are and it Is a simple as that. If you live in a Silo L as that. If you live in a silo within as that. If you live in a silo within a as that. If you live in a silo within a genre as that. If you live in a silo within a genre or as that. If you live in a silo within a genre or within i as that. If you live in a siloi within a genre or within the world within a genre or within the world in within a genre or within the world in which within a genre or within the world in which you within a genre or within the world in which you are within a genre or within the I World in which you are working and your world in which you are working and your Understanding World in which you are working and your understanding of world in which you are working and your understanding of any| and your understanding of any particular and your understanding of any particular group and your understanding of any particular group Is and your understanding of any particular group Is limited particular group Is limited then particular group Is limited then that particular group Is limited then that Is particular group Is limited then that Is what particular group Is limited then that Is what you particular group Is limited| then that Is what you seek particular group Is limited i then that Is what you seek to replicate then that Is what you seek to replicate and then that Is what you seek to replicate and if then that Is what you seek to replicate and if you then that Is what you seek to replicate and if you do then that Is what you seek to replicate and if you do not i then that Is what you seek to. Replicate and if you do not see Ion-replicate'>AmbitIon Replicate and if you do not see Ion-and-replicate'>AmbitIon And Replicate and if you do not see Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority replicate and if you do not see Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority and Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority and leadership Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority and leadership and Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority and Leadership And Humour Ion-and-authority'>AmbitIon And Authority and Leadership And Humour in i Leadership And Humour in dIsability Leadership And Humour in dIsability and Leadership And Humour in dIsability and dIsabled. Leadership and humour in dIsability and dIsabled people then youre dIsability and dIsabled people then youre not dIsability and dIsabled people then youre not going dIsability and dIsabled people then youre not going to dIsability and dIsabled people then youre not going to look| then youre not going to look for any then youre not going to look for any of then youre not going to look for any of that. Then youre not going to look for any of that. Never then youre not going to look for any of that. Never mind l then youre not going to look. For any of that. Never mind the drama for any of that. Never mind the drama of for any of that. Never mind the drama of life. For any of that. Never mind the drama of life. You for any of that. Never mind the drama of life. You know, for any of that. Never mind the drama of life. You know, Life I Drama Of life. You know, Isnt-drama'>Life Isnt Drama of life. You know, Isnt'>Life Isnt sad drama of life. You know, Isnt'>Life Isnt sad to. Drama of life. You know, Isnt'>Life Isnt sad to, as drama of life. You know, Isnt'>Life Isnt sad to, as a drama of life. You know, Isnt'>Life Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled i Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled Isnt'>Person Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled person it Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled person. It Is Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled person. It Is not Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled i person. It Is not mIserable. Isnt sad to, as a dIsabled person. It Is not mIserable. Is person. It Is not mIserable. As ou are person. It Is not mIserable. You are saying that im thinking of another quote from Jacks Speech in which he said the dIsabled stories need to be told and when they are told be told and when they are told be told with dIsabled people. I wonder, all of you, how you would like the Broadcast Industry to go about doing what jack Is recommending . To prefer quotas, and you prefer a policy commitment. Prefer Culture Change programmes. Would you think of the necessary tools to use in order to deliver on the IsIon-thatjack'>VIsIon Thatjack Set Use in order to deliver on the vIsIon that Jack Set out . Shit vIsIon that Jack Set out . All ofthe vIsIon that Jack Set out . All of the above, vIsIon that Jack Set out . Fill of the above, probably. Just to get us started. And just take a leap. Take a rIsk. Nobody knows all the answers but it Is just really easy. Just talk to dIsabled people because as a dIsabled people because as a dIsabled person Is awful to see somebody represent you and tell your stories and its not true in perpetuating those myths. In our society now, theres myths are so archaic and in a society where we it Is ok for the news to keep going. Just as with underlying Ions'>Health ConditIons that are going to die. I make Is less than any other human being. It Is because our stories are not reported in the news. Put us in every oh agenda. Every agenda you have. Make sure that dIsability Is there and whether it fits in and if youre worried about to go and talk to a dIsabled person. We get that it can be quite fearful but we are there. We can help you. Quite fearful but we are there. We can help you. How you view how coronatIon we can help you. How you view how Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street we can help you. How you view how Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street has we can help you. How you view how Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street has told | how Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street has told the story of your character through the pandemic . They have done something through the pandemic . They have done something utterly done something utterly Ground Breaking and, you know, they had taken reasonable adjustments and made them work. To know what i mean . They filled me at home because i was shielding and i still am. And, you know, that shows that if you know, that shows that if you can do it on a televIsIon show you can do it on anything in life and thus, the media really leads and we are betraying different ways of doing that and Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street have been phenomenalfor me. We have got wheelchair accessible all around the streets which makes it easier for older people and people carrying anything. People dont realIse that Access Incident just for the dIsabled because it makes life better everywhere and for Ion-street'>CoronatIon Street to tell that story, think they are the only one who has told it other than jacks astounding drama which Is coming up, which Is told the story of how dIsabled people are doing and covid. We are one in five people. Why are we being so excluded . People. Why are we being so excluded . ,. , g. , excluded . You mentIoned jacks new drama excluded . You mentIoned jacks new drama you excluded . You mentIoned jacks new drama you have excluded . You mentIoned jacks new drama you have a excluded . You mentIoned jacks new drama you have a couple i new drama you have a couple coming up, when barbara Met Allen and also help, the first of which brIony has been involved in as well. Does thIs mean that at least some things are improving, that it Is easier to get commIssIons and when you do start work that experience Is at least improving where it was . Well, es, do improving where it was . Well, yes. Do some improving where it was . Well, yes, do some degree. Improving where it was . Well, | yes, do some degree. Certainly there yes, do some degree. Certainly there are yes, do some degree. Certainly there are commitments that we made there are commitments that we made Post Edinburgh really, realty made Post Edinburgh really, really impressive in that respect. When barbara met alan was actually commIssIoned by not by was actually commIssIoned by not by drama so we had to go in via different door and it was a really. Via different door and it was a really, reallyjoyful really, really joyful experience and really, reallyjoyful Iony'>Experience And BrIony Wont Blow Iony'>Experience And BrIony Wont Btow her Iony'>Experience And BrIony Wont Blow her own trumpet but it Is kind blow her own trumpet but it Is kind of blow her own trumpet but it Is kind of incredible because it was kind of incredible because it was accessible all the way up and there were members of the crew and there were members of the crew and and there were members of the crew and every branch. It was the first crew and every branch. It was the first time i had experienced that and it was amazing. She wrote a Isability-sheet'>DIsability Sheet amazing. She wrote a Isability-sheet'>DIsability Sheet that went with every time sheet that went with every time. ~. Sheet that went with every time. ,. , sheet that went with every time. , time. What was on it . Basically. Time. What was on it . Basically, because time. What was on it . Basically, because we| time. What was on it . Basically, because we are working with Crew Members that hunter worked with anybody from the dIsabled community before we wanted to make sure the dos and donts. So it Is basically to take away the fear about how to take away the fear about how to perhaps approach someone in a wheelchair. Ie dont go and grab their wheelchair. It might sound really obvIous but you would be surprIsed. It Is just a general commitment Is saying, look, we are here as employees as well. We are here to make a great programme but we also want to take away some of the questIon marks as well and to reassure people. But it was incrediblyjoyful reassure people. But it was incredibly joyful experience. We got to catch the most incredible cast of dIsabled actors as well. Most of you have not done tv work. Undefined if people just extraordinary and im not undefined if peoplejust extraordinary and im not going to lie i cried like a baby when we were filming one particular scene because i was in a room full of dIsabled people who were doing something quite monumental and joyful and purposeful and that such a rarity in our industry and really got to me. I rarity in our industry and really got to me. Really got to me. I can understand really got to me. I can understand why. Really got to me. I can understand why. Jack, j really got to me. I can understand why. Jack, just before we finIsh thIs dIscussIon, you gave thIs, as i said, very blunt speech that demanded the industrys attentIon. I wonder what the reactIon was from the big guns within the industry when they heard that message from you . Very, very good. Very positive. The very, very good. Very positive. The commitments from the Bbc And Netflix to make in dIsabled shows and netflix to make in dIsabled shows was huge. Channel 4 made a Similar Shows was huge. Channel 4 made a similar commitment. Sky Is building a similar commitment. Sky Is building and making a commitment have internal five but hopefully we will. And with that. But hopefully we will. And with that, Hopefully Change will happen because people will become empowered and people will be become empowered and people will be used to seeing people on screen make dIsabled people on screen make dIsabled people on on screen make dIsabled people on screen. We on screen make dIsabled people on screen. On screen make dIsabled people on screen. We will leave it there for people on screen. We will leave it there for the people on screen. We will leave it there for the moment. People on screen. We will leave it there for the moment. Thank| it there for the moment. Thank you very much indeed and lIstening to all of that Is david edelstein, former Channel Five ceo. From a director of programmes at bskyb. Are going to talk about Channel 4 and possible privatIsatIon a moment. We held those senIor roles and i wonder if, you feel, looking back, Isability-representatIon'>DIsability RepresentatIon was given the representatIon was given the representatIon wanted . It representatIon was given the representatIon wanted . It was well behind representatIon wanted . It was well behind other representatIon wanted . It was well behind other minority well behind other minority diversities. The most successful lobby was from the deaf broadcasting council. Subtitles and audIo descriptIon. It took a while for the broadcasters and the regulators to get there but it Is now a requirement for broadcasters to have virtually all their programming subtitled 10 of it audIo descriptIon. 50 with the next wave of Diversity Challenge was from ethnic Ion'>Minority RepresentatIon and all the broadcasters made commitments. They have been hugely successful. With dIsability, it Is kind of three dimensIonal. There Is on screen, Behind The Screen and then what Is the screen doing . So i watch corrie and im impressed that her Characters Storyline Is not necessarily based on dIsability. She has other storylines as well. When i watch life by Mike Bartlett and bbc, there was a character, a Mainstream Character and the fact that she was dIsabled was completely uncommented on. The first row may have a commIssIon was from a dIsabled writer. But he didnt write anything about dIsability. He was writing about politics in northern ireland. 50 it Is multidimensIonal Issues which have had less than attentIon it needs. Abs. Have had less than attentIon it needs. , have had less than attentIon it needs. �. ,. ,. , needs. A lot of attentIon in the last few needs. A lot of attentIon in the last few weeks needs. A lot of attentIon in| the last few weeks because Isability-representatIon'>DIsability RepresentatIon was given a huge, if temporary boost by channel 4s Coverage of the paralympics. And now we have thIs morning from Channel 4 that it would be able to do anything like thIs level of coverage again if it Is privatIsed. On that Issue, the possible privatIsatIon of Channel 4 Is coming into sharper focus. Channel 4 Is coming into sharperfocus. Next Channel 4 Is coming into sharper focus. Next week, Channel 4 Is coming into sharperfocus. Next week, the Ion'>Government ConsultatIon on those closes. A decIsIon will follow in months, we think. And where Channel 4 stands. It ceo spoke to the Media Show. Gonna make they dont cost the Taxpayer Anything at all. We take many commercially from advertIsers, we dont make a profit. All about money, about £1 billIon of revenue a year, and we recycle it into small and we recycle it into small and medium businesses across the uk. That was reiterated again as Channel 4 opened its new headquarters in leeds thIs week but david, you dIsagree with it as she made clear in a statement of the house of Lords Committee thIs week. Why . Well, most of it Is committee thIs week. Why . Well, most of it Is completely most of it Is completely untrue. There Is no reason why the paralympics should dIsappear from channel the paralympics should dIsappearfrom Channel 4 the paralympics should dIsappear from Channel 4 under private ownership. Why would it . Does very well in terms of audiences, it and it . Does very well in terms of audiences, itand it it . Does very well in terms of audiences, it and it keep although, the guardian mIsreported. Although, the guardian mIsreported. Although, the guardian mIsreorted. ~ mIsreported. We can give you the argument mIsreported. We can give you the argument here. MIsreported. We can give you the argument here. The the argument here. The Programming Director at Channel 4 said, ijust dont Programming Director at Channel 4 said, i just dont think there was any chance that a primarily profit driven Channel 4 would invest anything like what we invest in trying to Build Up and celebrate the paralympics in the way we do, purely profit driven Channel 4 would be a very different beast to the Channel 4 that we know now. We had a man well, i hope it would be put up a book would efficient and stop Pumping Money into some things. Last year they cut £134 millIon out of its budget but boosted its numbers and its Staff Pay by a significant margin. There are now 912 employees of Channel 4 earning an average of £100 a year each. The money they earn goes into programming that Is clearly not true. If it was a private enterprIse you would imagine that private enterprIse would pay very well to secure the best talent. One moment, david. Imjust looking the best talent. One moment, david. Im just looking at some of the details of Channel 4s annual report. Streaming growth of 24 in digital Up Ii . Copper Revenue Forecast to exceed £1 billIon for the first time. Doesnt sound like a business that has been particularly badly run. Allow me. I particularly badly run. Allow me i have particularly badly run. Allow me. I have run particularly badly run. Allow me. I have run a particularly badly run. Allow me. I have run a lot particularly badly run. Allow me. I have run a lot of me. I have run a lot of commercial businesses and it Is badly run. It has ten times as many people working in programming as, Channel Five. Now for the last 20 years. So when they said it doesnt cost the Taxpayer Anything it cost the Taxpayer Anything it cost the Taxpayer Anything it cost the taxpayer at least £75 millIon in wasted resources and payments. That wouldnt occur if it was run more efficiently and if it were privately owned and if it were privately owned and i have to say thIs. The paralympics cost £7 millIon in 2012 and rather more in 2016 and a bit more thIs year. Whoever owns Channel 4 in 2024 will be running the paralympics because it makes a lot of commercial sense. Clearly, channel commercial sense. Clearly, Channel 4 commercial sense. Clearly, Channel 4 would commercial sense. Clearly, Channel 4 would dIspute i Channel 4 would dIspute strongly that it Is not efficiently run. I would ask you, though, a different questIon, though, david. Can i ask you a different questIon . Although problems you raIse here, the remit Is not clear another properly enforced by the regulator, that Is not efficient enough, why does privatIsatIon sought any of those problems are . It seems to youve identified a problem in quite the solutIon that does not necessarily fit . Because as because as not necessarily fit . Because as because as soon not necessarily fit . Because as because as soon as not necessarily fit . Because as because as soon as you not necessarily fit . Because as because as soon as you enter. Because as soon as you enter into a contract with a private owner you can ask them to commit to programming commitments which Channel 4 will not commit. 50 commitments which Channel 4 will not commit. Will not commit. So you are sa in will not commit. So you are saying that will not commit. So you are saying that a will not commit. So you are saying that a regulator i will not commit. So you are saying that a regulator that| saying that a regulator that Cant Force a public Service Broadcaster now but could in the future do so with a private operatIon. It the future do so with a private operatIon operatIon. It would not be ofcom that operatIon. It would not be ofcom that did operatIon. It would not be ofcom that did it. OperatIon. It would not be ofcom that did it. It operatIon. It would not be| ofcom that did it. It would operatIon. It would not be i ofcom that did it. It would be a Government Contract that did it. You know, a contract. At the moment, ofcom has no power to dIscipline Channel 4 when it blatantly ignores. To dIscipline Channel 4 when it blatantly ignores. To dIscipline Channel 4 when it blatantly ignores. Ofcom does have the ability blatantly ignores. Ofcom does have the ability to blatantly ignores. Ofcom does have the ability to Issue blatantly ignores. Ofcom does have the ability to Issue fine. I have the ability to Issue fine. Jack, they bring you in. Why do you think thIs Is a bad idea . I you think thIs Is a bad idea . I dont really understand the argument put on the argument seems argument put on the argument seems to argument put on the argument seems to me that their salaries are a seems to me that their salaries are a bit seems to me that their salaries are a bit high and i dont think are a bit high and i dont think that Is necessarily true and think that Is necessarily true and i think that Is necessarily true and i dont really understand what and i dont really understand what it and i dont really understand what it focuses not on what channel what it focuses not on what Channel 4 has done hIstorically which Channel 4 has done hIstorically which Is Channel 4 has done hIstorically which Is made really good televIsIon. With a televIsIon that televIsIon. With a televIsIon that people want to watch. And we live that people want to watch. And we live in that people want to watch. And we live in the age of if you cant we live in the age of if you cant attract internatIonal Finance Cant attract internatIonal finance you are in trouble. It Is very finance you are in trouble. It Is very difficult to make shows Is very difficult to make shows. And that means that the local shows. And that means that the local Is shows. And that means that the local Is being lost and we are constantly looking for global ideas constantly looking for global ideas and that means that shows that talk ideas and that means that shows that talk about our country, that that talk about our country, that talk that talk about our country, that talk about our country, that talk about what makes our country that talk about what makes our country interesting, focused on looking country interesting, focused on looking at country interesting, focused on looking at the problems within our country, social realIsm, or otherwIse our country, social realIsm, or otherwIse lost. And it would be a tragedy otherwIse lost. And it would be a traced. OtherwIse lost. And it would be a tragedy a tragedy. David dIsagrees with that and will a tragedy. David dIsagrees with that and will have a tragedy. David dIsagrees with that and will have to a tragedy. David dIsagrees with that and will have to return i a tragedy. David dIsagrees with that and will have to return to i that and will have to return to the subject for the moment. Very much indeed. The consultatIon ends at 11 45pm in the 14 so you still have time and then we wait for months, we think, untilthere and then we wait for months, we think, until there Is a decIsIon. Many thanks to all of my guests. The Media Show will be back at the same time next week but from me and all of the Media Show team, for the moment, thank you for lIstening and goodbye. If you wIsh i was on the cards of the day had begun at the pressure, which has brought showers are starting to move away. Close to Northern Scotland which means the rains that have been setting into the night will continue. It has been very wet across parts of shetland in some parts of Northern Scotland have seen 30 or 40 millimetres by the end of the day. A warm start elsewhere. 14 of 15. Grey, mIsty and make it a little bit damp around the hills and coast in the North And West of The Cloud should fragment so drier, brighter, some sunny spells across much of england and wales. Just the odd shower around but a Few Mull For Northern Ireland as the breeze takes up a topical ability and for scotland where in the north it remains pretty wet. Quite warm, 20 23 where we do see the sunny spells at the east. We should hang on to some of that Is funded by the by that stage in the north has weakened, pushing Rain Down the great north run. ThIs Is the . How far north at thIs beach Is and how vires during the course of sunday. Goodbye for now. Welcome to Bbc News im tim willcox. Our top stories. As america prepares to mark 20 years since nine eleven as america prepares to mark 20 years since 9 11 the president calls for the country to come together. At our most vulnerable, and the Push And Pull of all that makes us human, in the battle for the soul of america, unity Is our greatest strength. The attacks led to the invasIon of afghanIstan now back under taliban control and many fear for the future. Lawyers for the woman whos accused Prince Andrew of Sexual Abuse claim theyve successfully served him with legal papers. And the battle of the teens the Build Up to the womens final of the us open