Justin covered afghanistan for almost four years as the bbc� s South Asia Correspondent and was in a Mortar Attack by the taliban. So he is well placed to talk to us about the events of this week. Welcome to you all. Lets start with that ben, shelley . Lets start with that, then, shall we . On thursday, a Suicide Bomb Attack at Kabul Airport targeted people desperate to flee the country after the taliban takeover. Ninety were killed, mostly afghan civilians and 13 us military personnel. A local branch of Islamic State called isk said they carried out the attack. Throughout The Week, 100. 000 people were evacuated throughout The Week, 100,000 people were evacuated but thousands left behind. Theres a huge Refugee Crisis in the making and a possible humanitarian disaster in afghanistan as money runs out and food disappears. It couldnt be much worse or could it . Justin, lets start with you. You know afghanistan well. You were in contact regularly with the taliban. They are highly highly organised group of people. At what point was it inevitable that it would fall to them and fall so quickly . It inevitable that it would fall to them and fall so quickly . When i was coverin them and fall so quickly . When i was covering afghanistan, them and fall so quickly . When i was covering afghanistan, the them and fall so quickly . When i wasl covering afghanistan, the government held most of the urban centres and that taliban held most of the countryside. So if you just looked at the area of the country controlled by the town band, it controlled by the town band, it controlled more than the government. This is in the period when the allies were there in force. So this is up until i left in 2018. So, you know, the taliban have been a significant presence on the ground in afghanistan, you know, for the last two decades during The Whole period of the occupation. So in that sense, they were a very significant for us, controlled a large area, and were in a position to make you imagine from a logistically in a position to shut off The Roads and therefore, you know, exercise, you know, be in a position to challenge the authority of the afghan government in the cities. I think when the allied troops announced their withdrawal, edge broke confidence in the Afghan Army in a way that probably hadnt been predicted. I think that calculus that the taliban would ultimately take control of most areas, probably not cobble connecting people thought that was pretty obvious to most people who knew afghanistan well. Jeffrey, did it have to be this messy, though . I mean, the biden administration is not looking great, as you can imagine. The international community has been very critical. The allies in afghanistan have sat, look, we needed more time, but he was not to be dissuaded stop but i think the first question is did it have to be at all . The idea that biden had the notion that america has to get out about 20 years long war, time to leave, there hadnt been an american killed in afghanistan and i think about 18 months, until yesterday. There was a relative amount of stability, but there was certainly an of stability, but there was certainly a. ,. ,. , stability, but there was certainly an of Violence And Chaos as well. I think if you an of Violence And Chaos as well. I think if you look an of Violence And Chaos as well. I think if you look at an of Violence And Chaos as well. I think if you look at korea, an of Violence And Chaos as well. I i think if you look at korea, the us has been in korea for 69 years. The us has been in Western Europe for much longer. So its incorrect to say i much longer. So its incorrect to sa j much longer. So its incorrect to say i ,. , say i think biden will be challenged fairl in his say i think biden will be challenged fairly in his assumption say i think biden will be challenged fairly in his assumption and say i think biden will be challenged fairly in his assumption and that. Say i think biden will be challenged fairly in his assumption and that in | fairly in his assumption and that in his declared declaration that the us had to his declared declaration that the us had to get his declared declaration that the us had to get out. In the question did it have had to get out. In the question did it have to had to get out. In the question did it have to be this messy . Probably a bit of it have to be this messy . Probably a bit of yes it have to be this messy . Probably a bit of yes and no. The idea that anyone could leave afghanistan from if you anyone could leave afghanistan from if you are anyone could leave afghanistan from if you are going to leave, and have a clean if you are going to leave, and have a clean exit if you are going to leave, and have a clean exit is naive. It was simply not going a clean exit is naive. It was simply not going to a clean exit is naive. It was simply not going to happen. And i think thars not going to happen. And i think thats on not going to happen. And i think thats on the inside of the us government, they need at the Afghan Army was government, they need at the Afghan Army was feeble at best. They didnt obviously army was feeble at best. They didnt obviously see that it was going to ust obviously see that it was going to just simply put down its weapons and run, just simply put down its weapons and run. Which just simply put down its weapons and run, which happened with astonishing speed run, which happened with astonishing speed 50 run, which happened with astonishing speed. So some serious miscalculations. I think in bidens defence. Miscalculations. I think in bidens defence, there was no good time to do this, defence, there was no good time to do this, and defence, there was no good time to do this, and it is true, he could have do this, and it is true, he could have muddled mind, he could have ust have muddled mind, he could have just let have muddled mind, he could have just let this have muddled mind, he could have just let this continue, but i think he also just let this continue, but i think he also calculated that Americas Appetite he also calculated that Americas Appetite for supporting this mission had diminished, so something had to be done had diminished, so something had to be done he had diminished, so something had to be done. He is in the first year of his term be done. He is in the first year of his term it be done. He is in the first year of his term. It was a political risk, but he his term. It was a political risk, but he is his term. It was a political risk, but he is still a long way from election but he is still a long way from election midterms. He will take a lot of election midterms. He will take a lot of Heat Election midterms. He will take a lot of heat for this. We dont know how this lot of heat for this. We dont know how this will play out, but he clearly how this will play out, but he clearly calculated that there was a time to clearly calculated that there was a time to do clearly calculated that there was a time to do it, it should be early in his term time to do it, it should be early in his term hste time to do it, it should be early in his term. ~ ,. ,. ,. , his term. We saw this extraordinary meetin of his term. We saw this extraordinary meeting of the his term. We saw this extraordinary meeting of the g7. His term. We saw this extraordinary meeting of the g7. What his term. We saw this extraordinary meeting of the g7. What other his term. We saw this extraordinary i meeting of the g7. What other choice of the members of the g7, besides the united states have but to get out as well when it was clear that Joe Biden was not going to change his mind . ~. , � , Joe Biden was not going to change his mind . ~. , � ,. , his mind . Well, for then its an addict his mind . Well, for then its an addict its his mind . Well, for then its an addict its a his mind . Well, for then its an addict its a disaster, his mind . Well, for then its an I Addict its a disaster, because addict its a disaster, because America Addict its a disaster, because America Might Addict its a disaster, because america might recover addict its a disaster, Becausel America might recover committee recovered america might recover committee recovered after america might recover committee recovered after vietnam, america might recover committee recovered after vietnam, they. America might recover committeel recovered after vietnam, they won the cold recovered after vietnam, they won the cold war. Recovered after vietnam, they won the cold war, but recovered after vietnam, they won the cold war, but europe recovered after vietnam, they won the cold war, but europe has recovered after vietnam, they won i the cold war, but europe has shown It South the cold war, but europe has shown It South because the cold war, but europe has shown It South because it the cold war, but europe has shown It South because it has the cold war, but europe has shown It South because it has no It South because it has no defence, they are It South because it has no defence, they are completely It South because it has no defence, they are completely dependent It South because it has no defence, they are completely dependent onl they are completely dependent on they are completely dependent on they us they are completely dependent on they us whimsical they are completely dependent on they us whimsical decision, they are completely dependent on they us whimsical decision, and l they are completely dependent on i they us whimsical decision, and the allies they us whimsical decision, and the aities where they us whimsical decision, and the allies where not they us whimsical decision, and the allies where not even they us whimsical decision, and the allies where not even told they us whimsical decision, and the allies where not even told about they us whimsical decision, and the allies where not even told about it l allies where not even told about it in order allies where not even told about it in order to allies where not even told about it in order to arrange. Allies where not even told about it in order to arrange. Allies where not even told about it in order to arrange. Their allies where not even told about it in order to arrange. Their own i in order to arrange. Their own evacuatioh~ in order to arrange. Their own evacuatioh~ it in order to arrange. Their own evacuation. It is in order to arrange. Their own evacuation. It is a in order to arrange. Their own evacuation. It is a terrible in order to arrange. Their own evacuation. It is a terrible crisisi evacuation. It is a terrible crisis in transatlantic evacuation. It is a terrible crisis in transatlantic relations, evacuation. It is a terrible crisis in transatlantic relations, not. Evacuation. It is a terrible crisisi in transatlantic relations, not on the european in transatlantic relations, not on the European Union, in transatlantic relations, not on the European Union, of in transatlantic relations, not on the European Union, of course. I the European Union, of course. Written the European Union, of course. Written taii~ the European Union, of course. Written tail. Now the European Union, of course. Written tail. Now europe the European Union, of course. Written tail. Now europe is the European Union, of course. Written tail. Now europe is facing its own written tail. Now europe is facing its own crisis written tail. Now europe is facing its own crisis with written tail. Now europe is facing its own crisis with no written tail. Now europe is facing its own crisis with no american i its own crisis with no american help,. Its own crisis with no american help, libya, its own crisis with no american help, libya, syria, its own crisis with no american help, libya, syria, and its own crisis with no american help, libya, syria, and at its own crisis with no american help, libya, syria, and at a i its own crisis with no american i help, libya, syria, and at a time when help, libya, syria, and at a time when the help, libya, syria, and at a time when the afghans help, libya, syria, and at a time when the afghans are help, libya, syria, and at a time when the afghans are quite help, libya, syria, and at a time. When the afghans are quite weekend try when the afghans are quite weekend by two when the afghans are quite weekend by two big when the afghans are quite weekend by two big issues, when the afghans are quite weekend by two big issues, one when the afghans are quite weekend by two big issues, one is when the afghans are quite weekend by two big issues, one is the by two big issues, one is the president ial by two big issues, one is the President Ial Election by two big issues, one is the President Ial Election in by two big issues, one is the. President Ial Election in france by two big issues, one is the President Ial Election in france next year. President Ial Election in france next year. And President Ial Election in france next year. And a President Ial Election in france next year. And a new President Ial Election in france next year, and a new chancellor President Ial Election in france next year, and a new chancellor in year, and a new chancellor in germahy year, and a new chancellor in germahy ih year, and a new chancellor in germany in the year, and a new chancellor in germany in the autumn. Year, and a new chancellor in germany in the autumn. And| year, and a new chancellor in i germany in the autumn. And we year, and a new chancellor in germany in the autumn. And we know frahco germany in the autumn. And we know frahco german germany in the autumn. And we know Franco German Cooperation Germany in the autumn. And we know Franco German cooperation is Franco German cooperation is completely Franco German cooperation is completely paralysed. Franco german cooperation is completely paralysed. So Franco German cooperation is completely paralysed. So the| Franco German cooperation is completely paralysed. So the only way we completely paralysed. So the only way we could completely paralysed. So the only way we could see completely paralysed. So the only way we could see a completely paralysed. So the only way we could see a little completely paralysed. So the only way we could see a little help completely paralysed. So the only way we could see a little help as i completely paralysed. So the onlyl way we could see a little help as of Course Way we could see a little help as of course that way we could see a little help as of course that britain way we could see a little help as of course that Britain And Way we could see a little help as of course that britain and france, course that britain and france, which course that britain and france, which are course that britain and france, which are the course that britain and france, which are the only course that britain and france, which are the only two course that britain and france, which are the only two militaryj which are the only two Military Power which are the only two Military Power in which are the only two Military Power in europe, which are the only two Military Power in europe, The Which are the only two Military Power in europe, the nuclear. Which are the only two Military Power in europe, the nuclear power or permanent power in europe, the nuclear power or permanent Seat Power in europe, the nuclear power or permanent seat on power in europe, the nuclear power or permanent seat on the power in europe, the nuclear power or permanent seat on the europeanj or permanent seat on the European Consulates or permanent seat on the European Consulates come or permanent seat on the European Consulates come together or permanent seat on the European Consulates come together to or permanent seat on the European Consulates come together to try or permanent seat on the European Consulates come together to try to I Consulates come together to try to occupy consulates come together to try to occupy a consulates come together to try to occupy a Bit Consulates come together to try to occupy a bit of consulates come together to try to occupy a bit of the consulates come together to try to occupy a bit of the Vacuum Consulates come together to try to occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left consulates come together to try to occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left byl occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left by The Americans, occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left by The Americans, but occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left by The Americans, but for occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left by The Americans, but for that, occupy a bit of the Vacuum Left by The Americans, but for that, youl The Americans, but for that, you will need The Americans, but for that, you will need a The Americans, but for that, you will need a new The Americans, but for that, you will need a new british The Americans, but for that, you will need a new british prime. Will need a new british Prime Mirrister will need a new british prime minister eric, will need a new british prime minister eric, because will need a new british prime minister eric, because brycel will need a new british prime minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit with minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit with the minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit with the european minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit with the European Union minister eric, because Bryce Johnson Credit with the European Union is credit with the European Union is zero, credit with the European Union is zero. Zero credit with the European Union is zero, zero points. Credit with the European Union is zero, zero points. Credit with the European Union is zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some oint, zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some point. The zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some point, the taliban zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some point, the taliban are zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some point, the taliban are going zero, zero points. Jeffrey, at some point, the taliban are going to point, the taliban are going to insist that they are not just a De Facto government, they are the legitimate government. How ready do you think the international community, not least the the White House will be to recognise them . Two Oints House will be to recognise them . Two points here house will be to recognise them . Two points here. Lets understand this attack was not the taliban, it was Isis K, as you noted, this Fringe Group of Isis And Afghanistan who has declared its enemy, notjust The Americans, but also the taliban, because believe it or not they dont think that taliban is extreme enough. I think its important to understand that while the taliban may be a De Facto taking over afghanistan, that doesnt mean they control that huge country from border to border, and they have by no means an established authority. They may ultimately, or in the short term, Control Cobble and the levers of power. In terms of where this goes, i think wejust of power. In terms of where this goes, i think we just have to see. 0bviously goes, i think we just have to see. Obviously this horrific tale is changing day today. I think that what is really going to determine it is that taliban the same group that it was 20 years ago . Car obeyed the hardline extremists who impose just obscenely unity of all punishments on people all and for a swim in out of schools and into burqas. Is that going to be reinstated . Or have they learned . They need foreign money. They need for and support them and they went for recognition. Are they able to moderate themselves enough to send out signals that they are worthy of that, and two are not able to hold their own supporters so that they can actually show that they can deliver on that, i suppose the third point is can they call the country together because with Isis K now raining chaos on the country and you said murdering, 90, Buti Raining Chaos on the country and you said murdering, 90, but i think the number is now up to 170 people dead in the attack On Thursday with that kind of threat looming further, can they actually control the country . Justin, you are knotting there with some of the Points Thatjeffrey was making. To what extent have that taliban changed the last 20 years . They have obviously come into power, if we can call it that, saying that they well make sure that girls can be educated. It doesnt seem that thatis be educated. It doesnt seem that that is sticking out even in some parts. The Lgbt Q that is sticking out even in some parts. The lgbt 0 plus community in afghanistan. Parts. The lgbt Q Plus Community in afghanistan afghanistan. There was that extraordinary afghanistan. There was that extraordinary press afghanistan. There was that i extraordinary Press Conference afghanistan. There was that extraordinary Press Conference where they presented this taliban 2. 0, newt they presented this taliban 2. 0, newt taliban face, and there is this real question about whether or not that is real question about whether or not that is true real question about whether or not that is true. Look, you know, they were that is true. Look, you know, they were very that is true. Look, you know, they were very serious political force. They were very serious political force. They have were very serious political force. They have been waging a war against the allies they have been waging a war against the allies for the last 20 years, and as the allies for the last 20 years, and as part of that, they have certainly and as part of that, they have certainly got a vision for how they want certainly got a vision for how they want to certainly got a vision for how they want to rule the country. And they would want to rule the country. And they would have want to rule the country. And they would have taken on board the fact that afghanistan has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. You know. Dramatically in the last 20 years. You know, its a very young country. The average you know, its a very young country. The average age is very low. Many afghans the average age is very low. Many afghans would have grown up without any knowledge of taliban rule. They will be any knowledge of taliban rule. They will be used to access to the ihterhet will be used to access to the internet and things like that. They understand how The World works. They have seen understand how The World works. They have seen how other countries operate have seen how other countries operate. The taliban know that they have to operate. The taliban know that they have to work with people who understand, you know, those sort of things understand, you know, those sort of things so understand, you know, those sort of things. So day, i think it is possible things. So day, i think it is possible that they do have a vision for a possible that they do have a vision for a kind possible that they do have a vision for a kind of possible that they do have a vision for a kind of more liberal regime, weather, for a kind of more liberal regime, weather, you know, as, you know, whether weather, you know, as, you know, whether they actually have the authority across the country. Youve ot authority across the country. Youve got to authority across the country. Youve got to remember, afghanistan is a tribal got to remember, afghanistan is a tribal nation, and the sources of power tribal nation, and the sources of power are tribal nation, and the sources of power are quite localised. So local tribal power are quite localised. So local tribal albert is and chiefs will meet tribal albert is and chiefs will meet with the taliban. So it isnt a centralised meet with the taliban. So it isnt a centralised authority. They need to work with centralised authority. They need to work with all of these different Power Work with all of these different power centres, whether they can keep a lid on power centres, whether they can keep a lid on all power centres, whether they can keep a lid on all that is completely an open a lid on all that is completely an open question i think at this stage. Particularly open question i think at this stage. Particularly when we see that the Eis K has been quite capable of carrying out that attack, or so they said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to be said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to be on said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to be on the said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to be on the about said, and you at the airport. There is reckoned to be on the about 3000 of them is reckoned to be on the about 3000 of them and is reckoned to be on the about 3000 of them and i asked kay. Its quite localised, of them and i asked kay. Its quite localised, the support for isis but then afghanistan. And as you say, they have then afghanistan. And as you say, they have fights, they have been fighting, they have fights, they have been fighting, they have fought a war with isis, fighting, they have fought a war with isis, they have been Fighting Isis with isis, they have been Fighting Isis since with isis, they have been Fighting Isis since Isis First emerged in afghanistan. They are formally enemies afghanistan. They are formally enemies. ~ afghanistan. They are formally enemies. , ~. , afghanistan. They are formally enemies. ,,. ,. , enemies. Mark, we know that these flirhts enemies. Mark, we know that these fli. Hts to enemies. Mark, we know that these flights to get enemies. Mark, we know that these flights to get people enemies. Mark, we know that these flights to get people out enemies. Mark, we know that these flights to get people out are enemies. Mark, we know that these flights to get people out are coming j flights to get people out are coming to an end. Brycejohnson for his protest that he will do everything he can to keep trying to get people out of the country. But we know there have been two years of people trying to get across the Land Borders into pakistan. How do the international Community Help people to the gates to the safety if these flights have stopped . Bearing in mind, of course, grace was telling the eu not to take too many afghans and. ~ � ,. ,. , and. Well, its a huge problem because as and. Well, its a huge problem because as we and. Well, its a huge problem because as we have and. Well, its a huge problem because as we have seen and. Well, its a huge problem because as we have seen in i and. Well, its a huge problem. Because as we have seen in syria, europe because as we have seen in syria, europe didnt because as we have seen in syria, europe didnt get because as we have seen in syria, europe didnt get its because as we have seen in syria, europe didnt get its act because as we have seen in syria, europe didnt get its Act Togetherl Europe didnt get its act together to share europe didnt get its act together to share all europe didnt get its act together to share all of europe didnt get its act together to share all of the europe didnt get its act together to share all of the Refugees Europe didnt get its act together to share all of the refugees and i to share all of the refugees and asylum seekers, to share all of the refugees and asylum seekers, and to share all of the refugees and asylum seekers, and at to share all of the refugees and asylum seekers, and at the to share all of the refugees and asylum seekers, and at the moment, with the asylum seekers, and at the moment, with the Pandemic Asylum seekers, and at the moment, with the pandemic still asylum seekers, and at the moment, with the pandemic still going asylum seekers, and at the moment, with the pandemic still going on, with the pandemic still going on, there with the pandemic still going on, there is with the pandemic still going on, there is really with the pandemic still going on, there is really an with the pandemic still going on, i there is really an anti immigration feeling there is really an anti immigration feeling all there is really an anti immigration feeling all over there is really an anti immigration feeling all over europe, there is really an anti immigration feeling all over europe, including i feeling all over europe, including In Britain feeling allover europe, including In Britain so feeling all over europe, including In Britain. So it feeling all over europe, including In Britain. So it is feeling all over europe, including In Britain. So it is very feeling all over europe, including| In Britain. So it is very important, i In Britain. So it is very important, ithink. In britain. So it is very important, ithink. This In Britain. So it is very important, i think, this time In Britain. So it is very important, i think, this time to In Britain. So it is very important, i think, this time to get In Britain. So it is very important, i think, this time to get our In Britain. So it is very important, i think, this time to get our act. I think, this time to get our act together i think, this time to get our act together its i think, this time to get our act together. Its to i think, this time to get our act together. Its to have i think, this time to get our act together. Its to have a together. Its to have a conference together. Its to have a conference to share together. Its to have a conference to share the together. Its to have a conference to share the burden together. Its to have a conference to share the burden of together. Its to have a conference to share the burden of the together. Its to have a conferencel to share the burden of the refugees among to share the burden of the refugees among all to share the burden of the refugees among all the to share the burden of the refugees among all the countries to share the burden of the refugees among all the countries that to share the burden of the refugees among all the countries that are among all the countries that are ready among all the countries that are ready to among all the countries that are ready to take among all the countries that are ready to take them. Among all the countries that are ready to take them. I among all the countries that are ready to take them. I think among all the countries that are ready to take them. I think we l among all the countries that are ready to take them. I think we have a duty ready to take them. I think we have a duty to ready to take them. I think we have a duty to help ready to take them. I think we have a duty to help the ready to take them. I think we have a duty to help the afghans ready to take them. I think we have a duty to help the afghans who a duty to help the afghans who helped a duty to help the afghans who helped us a duty to help the afghans who helped us in a duty to help the afghans who helped us in this a duty to help the afghans who helped us in this war. A duty to help the afghans who helped us in this war. And a duty to help the afghans who helped us in this war. And we i a duty to help the afghans who helped us in this war. And we cant let them helped us in this war. And we cant let them down helped us in this war. And we cant let them down. Now, helped us in this war. And we cant let them down. Now, there helped us in this war. And we cant let them down. Now, there is helped us in this war. And we cant. Let them down. Now, there is another way of let them down. Now, there is another way of pressurising let them down. Now, there is another way of pressurising the let them down. Now, there is another way of pressurising the taliban let them down. Now, there is another way of pressurising the taliban to way of pressurising the taliban to let People Way of pressurising the taliban to let people go. Way of pressurising the taliban to let people go. Its way of pressurising the taliban to let people go, its money, way of pressurising the taliban tol let people go, its money, money, money, let people go, its money, money, money, of let people go, its money, money, money, of course. Let people go, its money, money, money, of course. The let people go, its money, money, money, of course. The country let people go, its money, money, money, of course. The country is. Money, of course. The country is bankrupt, money, of course. The country is bankrupt, that money, of course. The country is bankrupt, that taliban money, of course. The country is bankrupt, that taliban will money, of course. The country is bankrupt, that taliban will have. Money, of course. The country is. Bankrupt, that taliban will have to run the bankrupt, that taliban will have to run the military bankrupt, that taliban will have to run the military where bankrupt, that taliban will have to run the military where they bankrupt, that taliban will have to run the military where they could i run the military where they could and on run the military where they could and on illegal run the military where they could and on illegal taxes run the military where they could and on illegal taxes on run the military where they could and on illegal taxes on transportl and on illegal taxes on transport and on illegal taxes on transport and that and on illegal taxes on transport and that sort and on illegal taxes on transport and that sort of and on illegal taxes on transport and that sort of thing. And on illegal taxes on transport and that sort of thing. They and on illegal taxes on transport| and that sort of thing. They need and on illegal taxes on transport. And that sort of thing. They need to really. And that sort of thing. They need to really. The and that sort of thing. They need to really. The money and that sort of thing. They need to really, the money is completely really, the money is completely blocked really, the money is completely blocked in really, the money is completely blocked In Washington really, the money is completely blocked In Washington either i really, the money is completelyj blocked In Washington either by really, the money is completely blocked In Washington either by the imf blocked In Washington either by The W or blocked In Washington either by The W or the blocked In Washington either by the imf or The American blocked In Washington either by the imf or The American administration| imf or The American administration or in europe imf or The American administration or in europe so imf or The American administration or in europe. So there imf or The American administration or in europe. So there i imf or The American administration or in europe. So there i think imf or The American administration or in europe. So there i think there| or in europe. So there i think there is a real or in europe. So there i think there is a real leverage or in europe. So there i think there is a real leverage of or in europe. So there i think there is a real leverage of the or in europe. So there i think there is a real leverage of the last or in europe. So there i think there is a real leverage of the last two i is a real leverage of the last two force is a real leverage of the last two force the is a real leverage of the last two force the taliban is a real leverage of the last two force the taliban to is a real leverage of the last two force the taliban to be is a real leverage of the last two force the taliban to be more i force the taliban to be more inclusive force the taliban to be more inclusive than force the taliban to be more inclusive than their force the taliban to be more i inclusive than their government force the taliban to be more inclusive than their government and to respect inclusive than their government and to respect human inclusive than their government and to respect human rights. Inclusive than their government and to respect human rights. To respect human rights. Jeffrey, what is the to respect human rights. Jeffrey, what is the appetite to respect human rights. Jeffrey, what is the appetite amongst i to respect human rights. Jeffrey, j what is the appetite amongst The American public for taking in afghans who helped then and the allies . We know thatJoe Biden has said they are going to have to be screened, vetted, they wont necessarily committees refugees, be allowed straight into the us if that is where they want to end up stopping i think its a spotty record in the past on the circumstances, in support for people who are particularly, interpreters, they dont just who are particularly, interpreters, they dontjust interpret their language into english, to help people understand culture, they help people understand culture, they help people find contacts. I have worked with these kinds of people as a general estimate is a War Correspondent general estimate is a War Corresponden general estimate is a War Corresponden general estimate is a War Corresronden ,. , ,. Correspondent your lives very much Deend Correspondent your lives very much de end on correspondent your lives very much depend on these correspondent your lives very much depend on these people, correspondent your lives very much depend on these people, and i correspondent your lives very much depend on these people, and you i depend on these people, and you become incredibly loyal to them as they are to you become incredibly loyal to them as they are to you. And so that people who are connected to then well at work and are breaking very hard to bring those people and and the support of the us administration in the us efforts there. Its not going to be easy and particularly difficult now, because the airport is erratic at best, if its open at all. I think this is not whatJoe Biden had in mind when he said we are going to leave quickly. He thought it was going to be, i think in retrospect, it seems incredibly naive on his part. He has really undermined his own authority as a staple for us, a stable leader, which is really, lets face it, what brought him to power in the first place against donald trump. He barely has damaged his own brand, so to speak, but he has, more portly, the people of afghanistan have left them in real chaos, and its not clear what the impact is going to be for afghanistan, clear what the impact is going to be forafghanistan, norfor clear what the impact is going to be for afghanistan, norfor biden, clear what the impact is going to be forafghanistan, norfor biden, but ithink forafghanistan, norfor biden, but i think its also too early to write that chapter in history. A year as a long time these days, and memories are very short. So lets see how this Plays Out, but right now, as history is unfolding, hour by hour, it is not a good story. It is a terrible, terrible tragedy that is unfolding. Terrible, terrible tragedy that is unfoldinu, terrible, terrible tragedy that is unfoldinu. , ~ ~. , unfolding. Justin, mike mentioned the fact that unfolding. Justin, mike mentioned the fact that the unfolding. Justin, mike mentioned the fact that the country unfolding. Justin, mike mentioned the fact that the country is unfolding. Justin, mike mentioned the fact that the country is broke i the fact that the country is broke and that they will need some money. Thats the leverage potentially for The West to deal with the taliban. But as people are trying to get out, we need to get humanitarian aid and for the people left behind. How inclined in your experience where the taliban to accept that sort of help . The taliban to accept that sort of hel . , the taliban to accept that sort of hel . ,. ,. , help . Not necessarily inclined at all, but help . Not necessarily inclined at all. But you help . Not necessarily inclined at all, but you have help . Not necessarily inclined at all, but you have to help . Not necessarily inclined at all, but you have to remember. Help . Not necessarily inclined at i all, but you have to remember there are other all, but you have to remember there are other players here. The taliban, so i are other players here. The taliban, so i can are other players here. The taliban, so i can afghanistan was obviously the centre so i can afghanistan was obviously the centre of The Great Game back in the centre of The Great Game back in the victorian era, and there is a great the victorian era, and there is a great game the victorian era, and there is a great game still playing out in afghanistan. The chinese and the russians afghanistan. The chinese and the russians have indicated that they may be russians have indicated that they may be interested in supporting afghanistan and the chinese, for Instance Afghanistan and the chinese, for instance are advertising their Ability Instance are advertising their ability to instance are advertising their ability to build an infrastructure in afghanistan, and have already been in afghanistan, and have already been talking about this. Sol in afghanistan, and have already been talking about this. So i dont think been talking about this. So i dont think the been talking about this. So i dont think The West has a unique franchise think The West has a unique franchise in afghanistan, there are other franchise in afghanistan, there are other nations to which to exert their other nations to which to exert their influence there and are willing their influence there and are willing to use their resources to do so. Willing to use their resources to do so so willing to use their resources to do so so that willing to use their resources to do so. So that is going to be very interesting to see how that Plays Out and interesting to see how that Plays Out and the extent to which these nations out and the extent to which these nations will allow the taliban to keep nations will allow the taliban to Keep Control of the country. You wonder, mark, Keep Control of the country. Gm. Wonder, mark, whether the Keep Control of the country. Gm. Wonder, mark, whetherthe eu, The Wonder, mark, whether the eu, the united states miss stepped here, not may do you think they recognise sufficiently how much of an Opportunity China and russia would see this moment as being, as Dustin Hasjust explained . See this moment as being, as dustin has just explained . Hasjust explained . Well, as we heard, hasjust explained . Well, as we heard. The hasjust explained . Well, as we heard, The Americans hasjust explained . Well, as we i heard, The Americans misinterpreted it completely heard, The Americans misinterpreted it completely. That heard, The Americans misinterpreted it completely. That europeans heard, The Americans misinterpreted it completely. That europeans were i it completely. That europeans were depending it completely. That europeans were depending on it completely. That europeans were depending on the it completely. That europeans were depending on The Americans, it completely. That europeans were depending on The Americans, so i it completely. That europeans were i depending on The Americans, so they were not depending on The Americans, so they were not particularly depending on The Americans, so they were not particularly interested i were not particularly interested about were not particularly interested about what were not particularly interested about what is were not particularly interested about what is going were not particularly interested about what is going on were not particularly interested about what is going on with i were not particularly interested i about what is going on with Russia And China about what is going on with Russia And China and about what is going on with Russia And China and i about what is going on with Russia And China and i think about what is going on with Russia And China and i think the about what is going on with Russia And China and i think the ball about what is going on with Russia And China and i think the ball is. About what is going on with Russia And China and i think the ball is in| and china and i think the ball is in The American and china and i think the ball is in The American camp. And china and i think the ball is in The American camp. They and china and i think the ball is in The American camp. They are i and china and i think the ball is in The American camp. They are the | and china and i think the ball is in The American camp. They are the only superpower The American camp. They are the only superpower. Europe The American camp. They are the only superpower. Europe is The American camp. They are the only superpower. Europe is no The American camp. They are the only superpower. Europe is no longer The American camp. They are the only superpower. Europe is no longer a I Superpower. Europe is no longer a superpower superpower. Europe is no longer a superpower because superpower. Europe is no longer a superpower because it superpower. Europe is no longer a superpower because it doesnt I Superpower. Europe is no longer a. Superpower because it doesnt have superpower. Europe is no longer a I Superpower because it doesnt have a Defence Superpower because it doesnt have a defence policy~ superpower because it doesnt have a defence policy. So superpower because it doesnt have a defence policy. So definitely superpower because it doesnt have a defence policy. So definitely the i defence policy. So definitely the ball is defence policy. So definitely the ball is in defence policy. So definitely the ball is in the defence policy. So definitely the ball is in the us defence policy. So definitely the ball is in the us camp, defence policy. So definitely the ball is in the us camp, and i defence policy. So definitely the I Ball is in the us camp, and i think the us ball is in the us camp, and i think the us Isto Ball is in the us camp, and i think the us is to show ball is in the us camp, and i think the us is to show again ball is in the us camp, and i think. The us is to show again leadership, which has the us is to show again leadership, which has been the us is to show again leadership, which has been missing the us is to show again leadership, which has been missing for the us is to show again leadership, which has been missing for a the us is to show again leadership, which has been missing for a long i which has been missing for a long time which has been missing for a long time. ,. , which has been missing for a long time. ,. , time. JUst Briefly then, jeffrey, who does the time. JUst Briefly then, jeffrey, who does the united time. JUst Briefly then, jeffrey, who does the united states i time. JUst Briefly then, jeffrey, who does the united States Partner with in the region to try to exert some influence when they have shipped out . The some influence when they have shipped out . Shipped out . The us has traditionally shipped out . The us has traditionally tragedy shipped out . The us has traditionally tragedy is i shipped out . The us has| traditionally tragedy is as shipped out . The us has traditionally tragedy is as leverage with afghanistan, but they have said famously, you know, we have to live next to afghanistan. You know, if you leave, we still are here. So they have always kind of played both sides of this, the pakistanis, both talking to the taliban and providing intelligence against them. So i think pakistan still plays a pivotal role they are. Im curious about this talk of Russia And China moving in. Lets face it, russia, firmly the Soviet Union has a pretty searing history of its own in afghanistan and its own failure, failed invasion in the 19805 that was just catastrophic in terms of consequences. Afghanistan is not a nation that wants to be occupied. History has shown that the british much earlier failed. History has shown that the british much earlierfailed. This is a very complex region, and it simply does not. It is not a country that can be conquered and restructured, Re Engineered in a western paradigm. Thank you all. Lets move on. This week has seen the centre of london full of demonstrators from the Extinction Rebellion Movement protesting and calling for the end of the use of fossil fuels. Some question whether the demonstrations will achieve anything. Many suggest the gap between Government Rhetoric and actual actions is wider than ever. Activists have been accused of vandalism after pouring Fake Blood into the fountain outside buckingham palace. Justin, you are our chief environments correspondence. You are the perfect correspondent to be with us this evening. What effect do you think, if any, us this evening. What effect do you think, ifany, extension us this evening. What effect do you think, if any, Extension Rebellion� s actions are really having and moving the dial on Climate Change. The . Actions are really having and moving the dial on Climate Change. They get attention, the dial on Climate Change. They get attention. They the dial on Climate Change. They get attention, they get the dial on Climate Change. They get attention, they get the the dial on Climate Change. They get attention, they get the issues attention, they get the issues discussed, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, but im not sure thats sometimes negatively, but im not sure thats the presenter which you should sure thats the presenter which you should see sure thats the presenter which you should see this happening in the sense should see this happening in the sense that they have a legitimate ii L Ht Sense that they have a legitimate right to sense that they have a legitimate right to express their views. They feel passionately that the Government Isnt doing enough to tackle Government Isnt doing enough to tackle what they call the climate emergency. And they believe, they feel, emergency. And they believe, they feel. You emergency. And they believe, they feel, you know, powerless to do, to change feel, you know, powerless to do, to change the feel, you know, powerless to do, to change the governments be used without change the governments be used without going onto the streets and started without going onto the streets and started making their protests clear. Ithink started making their protests clear. I think in started making their protests clear. I think in democracies, its legitimate for people to express their opinions in this way. Yeah, some their opinions in this way. Yeah, some of their opinions in this way. Yeah, some of it their opinions in this way. Yeah, some of it is their opinions in this way. Yeah, some of it is theatrical and dramatic some of it is theatrical and dramatic them and they were pouring blood dramatic them and they were pouring blood outside the London Stock exchange this afternoon, but. Where exchange this afternoon, but. Where them . I exchange this afternoon, but. Where them . Exchange this afternoon, but. Where them . ,. , where them . I was then, untili got a bit of fake where them . I was then, untili got a bit of Fake Blood where them . I was then, untili got a bit of Fake Blood on where them . I was then, untili got a bit of Fake Blood on my where them . I was then, untili got a bit of Fake Blood on my shoes. Where them . I was then, untili got a bit of Fake Blood on my shoes. I i a bit of Fake Blood on my shoes. I was with a bit of Fake Blood on my shoes. I was with them today. Mark was with them today. Mark and Extension Rebellion began in the uk, but have staged international events. How much traction have they got in france . 0r Traction have they got in france . Or is that other groups that are having more success in convincing politicians that they need to act faster . ~. ,. ,. ,. , faster . Well, and france, Extension Rebellion would faster . Well, and france, Extension Rebellion would not faster . Well, and france, Extension Rebellion would not have faster . Well, and france, Extension Rebellion would not have the faster . Well, and france, Extension Rebellion would not have the Leewayj Rebellion would not have the leeway they have rebellion would not have the leeway they have in rebellion would not have the leeway they have in the rebellion would not have the leeway they have in the Uk Rebellion would not have the leeway they have in the uk because rebellion would not have the leeway they have in the uk because the they have in the uk because the police they have in the uk because the police is they have in the uk because the police is much they have in the uk because the police is much harsher, they have in the uk because the police is much harsher, lying. They have in the uk because the police is much harsher, lying order, the Government Police is much harsher, lying order, the government is police is much harsher, lying order, the government is really police is much harsher, lying order, the government is really trying police is much harsher, lying order, the government is really trying to l the government is really trying to keep the government is really trying to keep that the government is really trying to keep that sort the government is really trying to keep that sort of the government is really trying to keep that sort of movements the government is really trying to keep that sort of movements out| the government is really trying to. Keep that sort of movements out of The Road keep that sort of movements out of The Road so keep that sort of movements out of The Road so i keep that sort of movements out of The Road. So i think keep that sort of movements out of The Road. So i think the keep that sort of movements out of The Road. So i think the issue keep that sort of movements out of The Road. So i think the issue is The Road. So i think the issue is huge The Road. So i think the issue is huge because The Road. So i think the issue is huge because the The Road. So i think the issue is huge because the cop26, The Road. So i think the issue is| huge because the cop26, which The Road. So i think the issue is. Huge because the cop26, which is taking huge because the cop26, which is taking part huge because the cop26, which is taking part in huge because the cop26, which is taking part in glasgow, huge because the cop26, which is taking part in glasgow, so huge because the cop26, which is taking part in glasgow, so the huge because the cop26, which is taking part in glasgow, so the un| taking part in glasgow, so the un climate taking part in glasgow, so the un Climate Change taking part in glasgow, so the un climate Change Conference taking part in glasgow, so the un climate Change Conference is taking part in glasgow, so the un climate Change Conference is notl climate Change Conference is not going climate Change Conference is not going very climate Change Conference is not going very wetk climate Change Conference is not going very well. Its climate Change Conference is not going very well. Its the climate Change Conference is not going very well. Its the big climate Change Conference is not. Going very well. Its the big scheme of boris going very well. Its the Big Scheme Of Borisjohnson going very well. Its the big scheme of Boris Johnson with going very well. Its the big scheme of Boris Johnson with the going very well. Its the big scheme of Boris Johnson with the g7, going very well. Its the big scheme of Boris Johnson with the g7, but i going very well. Its the big schemej Of Borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt Of Borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt given Of Borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt given it Of Borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt given it any Of Borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt given it any attention. Of borisjohnson with the g7, but he hasnt given it any attention. Now, i hasnt given it any attention. Now, if you hasnt given it any attention. Now, if you see hasnt given it any attention. Now, if you see the hasnt given it any attention. Now, if you see the Cop Hasnt given it any attention. Now, if you see the cop 21, if you see the cop 21, which happened if you see the cop 21, which happened in if you see the cop 21, which happened in france if you see the cop 21, which happened in france in if you see the cop 21, which| happened in france in 2015, everything happened in france in 2015, everything was happened in france in 2015, everything was centralised, | happened in france in 2015, everything was centralised, and it was a everything was centralised, and it was a Great Everything was centralised, and it was a great Success Everything was centralised, and it was a great success because everything was centralised, and it| was a great success because there was a great success because there was The Was a great success because there was the political was a great success because there was the political well. Was a great success because there was the political well. And was a great success because there was the political well. And all was the political well. And all white was the political well. And all white boris was the political well. And all while borisjohnson was the political well. And all while borisjohnson has was the political well. And all while borisjohnson has given was the political well. And all. While borisjohnson has given us was the political well. And all while borisjohnson has given us at the moment while borisjohnson has given us at the moment is while borisjohnson has given us at the moment is prince while borisjohnson has given us at the moment is prince charles, while borisjohnson has given us at the moment is prince charles, sol the moment is prince charles, so prince the moment is prince charles, so Prince Charless the moment is prince charles, so Prince Charless fantastic Prince Charless fantastic credentialing Prince Charless fantastic credentialing ecology, i Prince Charless fantasticl credentialing ecology, but Prince Charless fantastic credentialing ecology, but the prohtem credentialing ecology, but the problem itself credentialing ecology, but the problem itself is credentialing ecology, but the problem itself is no credentialing ecology, but the problem itself is no sort, credentialing ecology, but the problem itself is no sort, he L Problem itself is no sort, he doesnt problem itself is no sort, he doesnt have problem itself is no sort, he doesnt have the problem itself is no sort, he doesnt have the political. Problem itself is no sort, he i doesnt have the political welL Problem itself is no sort, he doesnt have the political well that you need doesnt have the political well that you need for doesnt have the political well that you need for such doesnt have the political well that you need for such a doesnt have the political well that you need for such a success doesnt have the political well that you need for such a success of doesnt have the political well that you need for such a success of the| you need for such a success of the c0p26, you need for such a success of the cop26, because you need for such a success of the cop26, because if you need for such a success of the cop26, because if this you need for such a success of the cop26, because if this fails, you need for such a success of the cop26, because if this fails, thenl cop26, because if this fails, then you can cop26, because if this fails, then you can show cop26, because if this fails, then you can show extension cop26, because if this fails, then you can show Extension Rebellionj you can show Extension Rebellion will have you can show Extension Rebellion will have nrany you can show Extension Rebellion will have many days you can show Extension Rebellion will have many days in you can show Extension Rebellion will have many days in front you can show Extension Rebellion will have many days in front of. Will have many days in front of them will have many days in front of them. ~. ,. ,. , them. What Extension Rebellion is sa inc them. What Extension Rebellion is saying isnt them. What Extension Rebellion is saying isnt exactly them. What Extension Rebellion is saying isnt exactly controversial, | saying isnt exactly controversial, is at . We know we have to give up fossil fuels. Is at . We know we have to give up fossilfuels. The is at . We know we have to give up fossil fuels. The assumption was thatJoe Biden would be more environmentally minded than donald trump. What evidence are you seeing of fat ahead of top 26 in november . You know, ithink of fat ahead of top 26 in november . You know, i think thats a massive Infrastructure Bell you know, i think thats a massive Infrastructure Hell that you No Doubt have been reporting on, i think its a in infrastructure. A good chunk of that day is going toward the environment, toward environmental clean up, towards making the environment, addressing issues of Climate Change, electrification of cards, creating networks of Charge Points across the us. So, you know, ithink there is us. So, you know, i think there is a significant efforts. People have every right to feel inpatient and a sense of panic about Climate Change, the climate emergency, and i agree with justin that the climate emergency, and i agree withjustin that i think that the climate emergency, and i agree with justin that i think that we dont disagree with the fundamentals of what Extension Rebellion is saying, but to go back to your question earlier, i think that what i wonder as a journalist is whether they are actually helping or hurting their Cause Commitment since they are raising awareness, but in another sense, are raising awareness, but in anothersense, people are raising awareness, but in another sense, people who genuinely support what they are saying are being turned off by their tactics. Remember october 2019, they stopped the tubes here in london, whichjust mystified commuters who were on this energy efficient electrified railway getting to work, and they glued themselves to the tube trains in a mean of Extension Rebellion, and Peoplejust Mean of Extension Rebellion, and people just couldnt connect the dots, and even wrist Extension Rebellion acknowledged maybe it wasnt the best tactic, which suggests that this isnt a group of is a group of well meaning people in one hand and then some anarchists have attach themselves to it on the other hand and this is always the problem with these kinds of protest groups. What is the message and how much impact is that having four just much impact is that having four Ust Briefl much impact is that having four Ust Briefly then. Much impact is that having fourjUst Briefly then, justin, are they going to annoy people more than they are going to achieve their aims . There have been actions that other ektension there have been actions that other Extension Rebellion thought were inappropriate. They calibrated this very carefully. They occupy road junctions, very carefully. They occupy road junctions, but they are not very busy junctions, but they are not very busy road junctions, but they are not very busy road junctions. As got these great busy road junctions. As got these great dramatic sculptures and are quite great dramatic sculptures and are quite careful not to cause too much disruption quite careful not to cause too much disruption from a little bit, but not too disruption from a little bit, but not too much. That is what they are hoping it� s not too much. That is what they are ho in. � ,. , not too much. That is what they are hoina. � ,. ,. ,. Not too much. That is what they are houin. ,. , hoping. Its a balancing act, is dick . Thank hoping. Its a balancing act, is dick . Thank you hoping. Its a balancing act, is dick . Thank you to hoping. Its a balancing act, is dick . Thank you to mark hoping. Its a balancing act, is dick . Thank you to Mark And L hoping. Its a balancing act, is. Dick . Thank you to mark and to jeffrey and justin. Thats all we have time for this week. Do join us again next week same time same place. Thank you for watching, goodbye. Hello there. Its been another dry day across the board. Weve seen plenty of sunshine across northern and western parts of the uk, but a lot more cloud further east. Tonight, its going to stay dry. There will be lengthy clear spells in many areas, particularly central, northern and western areas. And it will turn quite chilly in one or two spots as well. Now, winds will be light under this area of High Pressure. Still quite a breeze blowing down the east and particularly the southeast corner. Thatll feed in a bit of Cloud At Times and stop temperatures here from falling much below ten, 12 degrees. Further north and west, The Winds will be light. And here, well have issues with some mist and fog, some Sea Fog affecting northern and western parts of scotland, perhaps into Northern Ireland as well. Single figure values, Youll Notice here, particularly in rural spots. Double figures further south and east. So, for The Weekend and for many of us, its a Bank Holiday Weekend its going to be largely dry with our big Blocking Area of High Pressure holding on. It will bring sunny spells. Its not going to be wall to wall sunshine, but where you get the sunshine, itll be quite warm. On saturday, our area of High Pressure will be with us. Into sunday, the centre of it towards the North West corner. There will be quite a few showers over the near continent. Theres just an outside threat that one or two of these could graze the very far southeast of england through the day, but i think most places will stay dry. Here, again, quite breezy, a bit of cloud. Further north and west, largely dry with plenty of Sunshine And Light winds too. Just a little bit of Sea Fog hugging coastal parts of scotland and Northern Ireland. I think saturday looks like being The Warmest day of The Weekend. We could see the mid 205 across parts of scotland, close to that in central and southern areas as well, but a little bit fresher along North Sea coasts because of that onshore breeze. On sunday, temperatures a degree or so down. I think there could be a bit more cloud across northern and eastern areas. Best of the sunshine, central and southern and western areas, sheltered from that north northeast breeze, so i think its here where well see the best temperatures. Up in cardiff, bristol, 22, maybe 23 degrees. Cooler than that, northern and eastern coasts. So for monday, then, which is a Bank Holiday for many of us, looks like we could see more in The Way of cloud generally, some spells of sunshine, too, particularly in the southwest. Top temperatures 20, maybe 21 degrees, so a little bit fresher across the board. And it stays fine through the new week as well, but there is a chance that things could start to turn more unsettled by next weekend, as low pressure starts to invade in. This is Bbc World News im nancy kacungira. Hospitals im nancy kacungira. In afghanistan to scores of hospitals in afghanistan to scores of wounded in a child of uk british citizen. Killed after travelling from london to help his family escape. What now then for those eligible to flee afghanistan for britain when the Uk Flight saw . Irate britain when the Uk Flight saw . We will britain when the Uk Flight saw . , will shift heaven and earth to help them get out we will do what ever we can scotland sees a record breaking number of Daily Covid cases with more than 6000 Testing Positive for the virus. Welcome to manchester, again Cristiano Rinaldo and united reach an agreement on return to old trafford. ,. ,. , trafford. The gun used to killed a wild west outlawed trafford. The gun used to killed a wild west outlawed billy trafford. The gun used to killed a wild west outlawed billy the trafford. The gun used to killed a wild west outlawed billy the Kid L wild west outlawed billy the kid 140 years ago is going