Now on Bbc News its hardtalk with stephen sackur. Welcome to hardtalk, im stephen sackur. The athletic excellence we saw at the Tokyo Olympics will live long in the memory, but so will the moment the brilliant us gymnast Simone Biles chose not to compete, to safeguard her mental and physical health. Us gymnastics, still reeling from the repercussions of a sex abuse scandal, illustrates what can go wrong when Gold Medals and glory are put above care of individual athletes. My guest is former us olympic Champion Gymnast aly raisman. Is there a wider lesson for elite sport in the shame of american gymnastics . Aly raisman in massachusetts, welcome to hardtalk. Hi, how are you . I am very well. Its a pleasure to have you on this show. Let me begin by asking you what it was like for you as One Of Us gymnastics� most decorated olympians, the captain of the gymnastic team in rio 2016, what was it like for you watching your team compete from afar in tokyo just a couple of weeks back . I think there was a lot of different emotions. I just want to first start off and say how proud i am of all the gymnasts. It was really. I think there was a lot of different things going through my mind. Im very proud of all of their hard work, very proud of them for doing the best they could, very proud of simone but obviously very heartbroken for her, as well. I cant imagine how difficult of a decision that must have been for her to decide to not compete or not finish the competition and the team final, and just really impressed with her, because theres so much pressure to be this perfect athlete. And i think sometimes people forget shes human, butjust really impressed with the other gymnasts on the us team, as well, and obviously so excited for sunisa, who won the all around, and jade won floor, and then, simone came back and won the bronze on beam. And then, of course, the team won silver. But i also have to say it was so awesome watching the sportsmanship at this olympic games. That was really my favourite part of the olympics, was watching that. It was so beautiful and it was so cool to see gymnasts from other countries be on the podium that were not used to seeing. So it was really awesome. You talk there about simone, and obviously Simone Biles is a name that we all know, possibly the worlds most famous gymnast and, i know, a Friend And Team mate of yours in years gone by. Now, she withdrew, as you said, for her own wellbeing, both physical and mental. I just wonder whether you think its fair to, in assessing the decision she made, to link that with the fact that simone, just as yourself, has been through the most terrible trauma in recent years linked to the Sex Scandal in us gymnastics. Our minds all are so different. Were all so. Theres no two people that are alike. So i dont know. And i dont want to speak for simone, so only simone can answer that question. I think thats absolutely the fair and right answer. She was asked it, you know, after she withdrew, on tv, and she said she thought about it hard. She said, in the back of my mind, probably, yes, it was there because there are certain triggers, and it could have been a factor. And ijust. Again, i wonder now to bring it to you, Whetherfor You, despite the fact that the trial of Larry Nassar, the doctor who worked so closely with the us national team, who was eventually convicted of a string of Sex And Child pornography crimes in 2018, although that is some years ago, Whetherfor You in your own mind it is still a trauma that you deal with all the time. Yeah, absolutely. Its something that even after this interview, ill probably feel sick for the rest of the Day Orfor a few days. I feel even just nauseous thinking about it right now. Its something that affects me. And i think with healing, its not one size fits all. There are certain days where i wake up and i feel better and there are other days where i feel something triggers me a lot more easily. But i think any time i do an interview, its really. Its hard. And its something that unfortunately is still an ongoing issue with Usa Gymnastics and the united states olympic committee. So it feels like its been going on for a very long time. I reported my abuse around six years ago, so its been a very, very long process. And the way that a survivor heals can be linked to how their abuse is handled. So this dragging on and on and the organisations not handling it the right way definitely makes it really, really difficult, because i dont want to have to keep talking about it. But i think when you have organisations that only prioritise their reputation, money and medals, Doing Media is a really big part of helping to effectuate change and putting that pressure on them. So any time we get to do interviews, were extremely grateful. Im very grateful that youre having me on this massive platform, because i think every time that i do an interview, im always hoping maybe this will be the one that somebody will help us and someone will do the right thing, because the reality is, is when i was younger and if you look back decades, all the gymnasts needed was just one adult to do the right thing and to help protect us, and we didnt have that. I dont know everything that happened. He was first working there in 1997 and i say he because i dont want to say his name, which is another example of how triggering and hard it is for me to talk about. But this goes back decades, and we need an independent investigation to understand why, so i and the other survivors can feel that we can believe in a safer future for the sport of gymnastics. Aly, i really respect what youre saying about the triggering and the continued trauma, so i dont want to push this too far, but i do think our audience around the world will want to hear your explanation as to how the silence around what he was doing and, as you say, it went on for many, many years the silence, that wall of silence only began to crumble in 2015 16. So people will wonder how that wall of silence was maintained and why you and you were still a child when this began to happen to you why there was no way in which you could find an avenue to express what was going on. Yeah, i think thats a really important thing for people to understand. Something ive learned, though, about Mental Health, about healing, about trauma is that we never know what someone else is going through. And i think it can be easy for people on the outside looking in to think that they know all the facts or think that, oh, it wouldve been so easy for someone to speak up. But if you think about. There was a Paedophile Working in Usa Gymnastics for decades, and i believe the first report of abuse was in 1997. So when we would go to Training Camp, it was mandatory to get treated by larry. And im going tojust say his name so theres no confusion. And if there was a problem at Training Camp or wherever we were travelling for Usa Gymnastics, we had to go to him. And he was the doctor. He was also the Olympic Doctorfor the us. So what i try to explain to people is i know many of the gymnasts have come forward, but not everyone, so i want to be careful with my wording because i know not everyone has said that it happened to them. So there are some perhaps that he didnt abuse. But you have to imagine from the time that i would go to Training Camp as a young gymnast for years when this person is doing the same type of what he called treatment but was actually abuse to a lot of your friends and Team Mates, it becomes normalised in the most horrible way. And when you are young and you dont know anything differently, its really hard to know, but there were times where people would speak up. I dont want people to think that people werent speaking up. And, you know, with being a survivor, there are some survivors that wait to come forward decades. They wait 50 years or they never come forward. And thats because our society doesnt give a safe place for survivors to feel comfortable to come forward, because, as i said, the way a survivor heals can be linked to how their abuse is handled. So i dont think people understand that if you are a survivor and you share with someone that youve been abused, and that person says theyre not supportive and they dont believe you, that does so much to a persons mental Health And Self worth in the worst way that it could prevent them from ever sharing it again. So, there were gymnasts that spoke up many times over the years, and Child Protective Services was aware, Law Enforcement was aware, the fbi was aware. I mean, there was Law Enforcement that was aware, and there was also many times where Law Enforcement would say to the survivors, youre wrong, this didnt happen. And so, when survivors are constantly told, youre wrong, its already confusing enough to be a survivor because theres so much Grooming And Manipulation that goes into, sometimes, abuse. Its different for everyone. But in my situation, there was grooming, there was gift giving. It was a lot of manipulation where, you know, there was also times where we would try to say something and we were told that youre wrong and never to speak badly about him again, so then i would feel, well, then im wrong and ifeel guilty for mistrusting a doctor. And, you know, ifelt so ashamed of myself for thinking bad of someone. So i wish i could give you this really simple answer, but its so complicated. And the reality is, its very, very hard to speak up because a lot of times survivors are shamed and told theyre wrong, and theyre not believed. But people also go to great lengths to protect the abuser. And Usa Gymnastics and the united states olympic committee, in my opinion, went to great lengths to protect him. And thats why im saying we need an independent investigation to understand what happened. Aly, thats exactly what i want to get to now, because, again, just to finish the story of this individual, dr Larry Nassar is, of course, in prison. He was sentenced to well over 100 years on different federal and state convictions. Thejudge, in fact, at the time of sentencing said, i just signed your Death Warrant but you say that is in no way The End of this story and this fight for accountability and justice. And i wonder where you think this fight should and will end. You know, i ask myself when and where it will end, too. I mean, its really been such a long process. And i think back to whoever the survivor was in 1997 that reported it and was obviously. That was not handled in the right way. And then, the survivor or the adult who reported to Child Protective Services in the early 2000s i think about all of these people who tried to protect so many people and were just ignored. So, its really. Sorry to interrupt, aly, but is your contention that there was a Cover Up which has yet to be fully exposed . In my opinion, i believe there was a Cover Up. And we need the answers to understand. I think that it needs to go back decades to understand how many people knew about him and why nothing was done. Yeah, i think that theres still an issue with the organisations, the lack of accountability even today, the lack of support for survivors is just. Its devastating and it needs to change. Theres a lack of leadership in Usa Gymnastics. And i think that its the same thing with the united states olympic committee. I want to leave aside, for a moment, the horrific Sex Crimes of dr Larry Nassar and the fallout and repercussions of that specific crime. I want to talk to you about maybe lessons that can be learned from your experience and us Elite Gymnastic experience of a particular approach to training, to prioritising creating Gold Medal winners, because you and many others were trained in a regime which, now its been scrutinised, looks almost unbelievably harsh, even cruel. Do you think that the pursuit of Gold Medals in your era lets say from 2010 right through the next sort of eight years was it abusive of athletes . I think that there was a culture that enabled a paedophile to thrive. And i think that it was a Culture Of Fear and. I feel today, i am a completely different person than i was when i was competing. I felt like when i was competing, i didnt trust myself or my own voice the way that i think its important for anyone to. And ifelt, like, because. Ijust felt like i had to be perfect all the time, and if i wasnt perfect, my whole entire Self Worth was wrapped around that. And i think thats a really unhealthy Mind Set for an athlete or anybody, even if, you know, something at work where your Self Worth is defined by how much money you make or a promotion that you do or dont get. Its really difficult to navigate life like that. So, to be specific, im genuinely asking because i think its fascinating to see how maybe elite athletics is going to have to change. But heres a quote from you in 2016, when you were the Team Captain at us gymnastics, i believe you won the team gold. You were known as the final five in that team because i think it was. Obviously it turned out to be your last appearance, but it was also the last time that Marta Karolyi was your head coach. And she, of course, part of the duo that were famous as these tough coaches of us gymnasts. And at The End, of Marta Karolyi, you said, without her, none of this would have been possible. We wanted to do this, win the gold for her because she was with us there every single day. Now, then, when you were obviously much younger, it sounds like you sort of bought into and believed in this sort of ultra tough approach to training elite athletes. I just wonder if youve changed your mind. Well, Ifelt Like, you know, just in general, separate from that quote that you just read, i think in general, when youre competing under an organisation, and Ifelt Like i would compete out of fear and i just wanted to make it seem like i was ok all the time and i didnt want to make waves. But to be clear, aly, are you saying that throughout your amazing success as one of americas greatest gymnast olympians, you were driven by fear, you were competing out of fear . Yes, absolutely. Because i felt like nothing besides a Gold Medal was enough, and i think that even sometimes the way that the pressure even from the media orjust our society is that its this Fear Of, if i dont win, it doesnt matter, its not good enough. And so, i definitely did it out of fear because its so much pressure and its terrifying, the Fear Of letting people down. So when we reflect on what Simone Biles did at the Tokyo Olympics, maybe you could talk of other sports, what naomi osaka, the brilliant tennis player, did by withdrawing from key grand slams this year on the grounds of protecting her Mental Health, do you think something really important and profound is changing in the way athletes are speaking up for themselves and protecting themselves . I think if i look at it from an outside point of view, because i personally dont know naomi i think shes incredible, im a big fan of her and i fully support her. And i was not there with simone, i wasnt training with her. So i dont know exactly what was happening. But from an outside perspective, i think its really great to see that the media and the support on Social Media for naomi and simone. I was really glad to see just how much people are supporting both of them, because i think that every time someone speaks up and someone else supports them, it opens the door for someone else to feel comfortable to share their own experiences of what theyre going through. So i think as a society, i think were definitely heading in the right direction. I would be curious if simone and naomi, how they feel about it, because they were the ones that made those big decisions and wondering if they felt supported and. If i canjust dig into that a little bit what did you think and what would your message be to those conservative Talk Show hosts in america who called Simone Biles selfish and a quitter, and commentators like Piers Morgan here in the uk who said that fundamentally they were showing weakness rather than strength, and that winning was the thing that mattered, and you had to go through the pain to show The Endurance, suck it up to win what would you say to that sort of commentary . Well, i think that in life, what ive learned from being in The Public Eye is that no matter what you do you could do something with the most incredible intention, and ijust think its impossible for everyone to agree with you or support every single thing that you do. And i think that Mental Health and abuse, and trauma is such a difficult thing to talk about. And i think its such a difficult thing to talk about because there are still so many people out there who dont understand it. And i think thats what makes it sometimes so scary for people to speak up and share their experiences, because of the Fear Of someone not supporting them or shaming them, or not believing them. But i think that i personally saw so much support for naomi and simone, and i know it can be really hard to Focus On the positive. And sometimes its easy to if you see 100 positive articles and you see one negative one, its sometimes easy to Focus On that one negative one. But i think that both of them, what both of them have done. And i was thinking about, im sure when both of them made those announcements, it was so out there in the media that thinking about how many people around the world are suffering in silence. And i wonder if both of them saved some lives that day. Theres a lot of people out there that are really struggling. And maybe there was people out there that said, im comfortable now to get help because i saw these two amazing athletes do this on the biggest stage in the world. And i think thats whats important to Focus On. I dont know if well live in a world where every single person is 100 supportive of, or understands Mental Health. But i also think its important to remember we will never know what naomi or simone were dealing with, or are dealing with. And its easy for people to sit on the outside and think they know, but we dont. And its so much pressure. Also, theres such a small percentage of athletes who understand what its like to have that immense pressure on them. And its all consuming and its very, very hard. So i think its really hard tojudge that. Aly, if i may, were out of time. I just want to end and forgive me for the intrusive question but its a personal question, given Everything Youve said today and all of your personal experience, if. Its hypothetical, but if you are to have a child One Day who exhibits great Athletic Talent as a very young child, would you want them to go into elite sport the way you did when you were very young . You know, ithink that itjust depends. I also want to mention i do love gymnastics so much, and i know a lot of this interview was very negative towards parts of the sport. But i do want to mention i love gymnastics so much, and i have so many incredible memories even from the olympics and competing. I have incredible Team Mates and friendships that i made over the years, so i. I want to have kids One Day, but its not anywhere near in the immediate future, so im not sure. Im hoping by the time i have kids, that things are continuing to move in the right direction as a whole for Mental Health and the conversations, and that there will have been a full independent investigation on Usa Gymnastics, the united states olympic committee, that i feel confident having my kid do the sport if they want to. Aly raisman, i thank you so much for answering all my questions and for being on hardtalk. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thanks. Hello there. Cloud features quite prominently in our forecast for this week. And with the grey skies come some relatively cool conditions for the time of year. Northwesterly winds bringing all that cloud and some rather cool air, particularly at the start of the week, but it will often, if not always, be dry. Just a bit of light and patchy rain here and there. This is the earlier satellite picture. You can see various areas of cloud. Weve got low pressure up to the northeast, weak frontal systems which have been bringing cloud and some showery rain. Theres quite a lot of low cloud waiting out to the west. And this is the set up to start the week, with High Pressure to the west, low pressure to the east, and that is whats driving this northwesterly wind. Quite a brisk wind first thing, especially for North Sea coasts. As we go through monday, we will see some sunshine developing, the best of that across northern and eastern scotland, the eastern side of england, whereas further west, we will keep more in the way of cloud, perhaps some spots of light Rain And Drizzle at times, and some slightly heavier rain approaching Northwest Scotland and Northern Ireland later in the day. Those winds only slowly easing. It stays quite breezy for all of us through the day and temperatures a bit below par, generally speaking 17,18,19, maybe heading 20 degrees in parts of southern and eastern england. And then as we head through monday night, we will see this area of wet weather pushing its way southeastwards. The rain mostly quite light and patchy, but i think there will be the odd heavy burst. But with that, were going to feed in an awful lot of low cloud, Mist And Murk, and that sets the scene for the middle part of the week. We still have this northwesterly wind, with High Pressure and low pressure trapping us between the two, essentially, but that northwesterly wind picking up an awful lot of moisture, an awful lot of cloud and depositing it on top of the uk. So largely cloudy conditions on tuesday, a little bit of patchy Rain And Drizzle here and there. Equally, that Cloud Breaking to give some sunny spells, especially to the south and the southeast of high ground. Temperatures, at best, 18, 19, 20 degrees still a little disappointing. And then into wednesday, more of the same, really, more Mist And Murk and cloud, the Odd Spot of drizzle. Best of any brightness to the East And Southeast of any hills and mountains. And temperatures, well, maybe just creeping up a touch, 21 degrees there in london, 17 in aberdeen. And then as we look towards The End of the week, a quiet sort of day on thursday. By friday, well, there is the chance that we will see some Rain Pushing in from the west. This is Bbc News. Im Sally Bundock with the latest headlines the desperate scramble to leave afghanistan Hundreds Flood Kabul airport after the taliban take the afghan capital, 20 years after being forced from power. I cannot believe the world abandoned afghanistan. Ourfans abandoned afghanistan. Our fans are abandoned afghanistan. Ourfans are going to get killed. They are going to get killed. They are going to kill us. Our women are going to kill us. Our women are not going to have any more rights. The Talibans Arrival has sparked the closure of western embassies and the us sends in more toops to help with the evacuation effort. More than 60 western countries issue a joint statement, saying all those who want to leave afghanistan must be allowed to depart. And in haiti, the search for survivors