Be here with the Bbc News at ten. Now though its time for newscast. Hello, its adam in the studio. And laura in the studio. And we are still two metres apart. Even though legally we dont need to be any more. Yes, but i think like lots of people are still taking precaution. Lots of people are still wearing masks everywhere, on some forms of transport youre still expected to wear a mask too, so fascinating over the next few weeks to see the kinds of decisions people are taking. Yeah. And its the last episode of newscast before the summer holidays, because its the last day of parliament before the summer holidays, so there is quite a louche atmosphere what in our. There would never be a louche atmosphere in our newsroom, never, ever, ever. Not allowed. Unfortunately Chris Mason is on the louche, hes not here. So hes not in his cupboard. But we decided to replace him with two friends of the podcast. Yes. Restored to her rightful place on late night thursday political tv, its Liz Kendal The Shadow care minister. Hello. You used to do this with somebody called andrew neil, not sure what happened to him. I havent seen or heard of him since. Have you been invited on Gb News yet, liz . I have actually, but i havent, unfortunately i have been unable to attend. Oh, because youre busy doing us. Talking of gbs, we have got gavin barwell, former chief of staff to Theresa May. Hello. Smooth intro. So smooth. You must be getting a bit annoyed being introduced like that, because it was a while ago, youve done a lot since. No, im very happy, i think that will probably be my moniker. For some time to come. Ive got used to that. Well, they call this, what is it, taking out the Trash Day in parliament when you just like Flood Parliament with announcement and papers and reports and inquiries and all that. And hope everyone is so excited about going on holiday that they dont read any of them. Yeah. Well. That would never happen. Were going to do the good Podcast Equivalent of just telling what you need to know has happened this week on is edition of newscast. Well, yes, i wonder when we will actually get closer than two metres . You know me and hugging and personal space and all that though. I mean it this has actually quite suited you. Not that i would now, because we are sitting deliberately two metres apart, but i know actually if i were to move closer to you, you would probably move further away. Nothing personal. Ijust got used to having my own space. Ok, so you. If you talk about this as the last leg before the summer holidays, you have done a sprint finish, because you did that massive interview with dominic cummings, that people have been talking about for days and days. Yeah. For me, im still amazed when i hear this bit, which is the bit when he talks about a bit of a coup against borisjohnson. Lets have a listen. Youve just said that within months of the Prime Minister winning the biggest conservative majority in decades, you and a few others from the Vote Leave Campaign were discussing the possibility of getting rid of him. Days not months. Within days of the election, you were discussing getting rid of him . Yes. Well, for all the reasons we have been discussing. Did you believe that stuff about the coup or do you think that was hoopla . No, i dont think it was bravado, i mean i agree with you i think. It was the most incredible bit of the interview. If youve done thatjob in no 10, there is a real danger it goes to your head, because the whole system, if you go on a foreign trip, the foreign governments treat you like the no 2 person. In the british government. And the truth is youre staff. You know the job title, i know he didnt have the job title, but he was effectively chief of staff. And the key word in the title is staff not chief. And he appeared to have lost sight of that. Laura put the question to him, the british people had just elected borisjohnson as Prime Minister. And if Boris And Carrie had decided they didnt want him any more, that meant they were leaving. There isnt an or where you think, oh, well, they dont want me, so well try and arrange someone else to be Prime Minister. Thats not how it works. Ijust thought it was a Jaw Droppingl Moment and any advisor who begins to believe theyre as important. As the principal is in real trouble. And, liz, was thisjust a massive open goalfor labour, or have they not really been exploiting it that much . I think what came out of it for me was just the arrogance really that it was all about this sort of internal power play, not about focussing on the massive issues for the country. Look, i think whilst its true to say some of this is westminster bubble, i do think one of the things people really remember from the pandemic was the whole Cummings Barnard Castle trip, you know it really did come up from people who were just, could not believe, after what they were doing, that it was so arrogant of cummings to think there was another rule for him. And i think we have seen a bit of that this over the last week too, with Johnson And Sunak you know saying they werent self isolating, they were on some pilot, when everybody else is going through it, people having to do their Home Schooling and not go to work, because theyre self isolating and i think what this reveals is a real issue for the government, that the sort of dishonesty, the arrogance is something that is starting to come through for people that people dont like and that is a real problem for them. I think why its tricky, and i have talked to ministers and mps reacting to what they heard, is whether or not you like or loathe dominic cummings, whether you believe or not every word he said, some of what hes claiming speaks to wider truths. And particularly the autumn lockdown, or not lockdown, for example. The allegations that he was making, i have heard those same things, as you and i have discussed on this podcast, from people who have Got Absolutely no axe to grind, of people who are really worried about and also about the prime Ministers Kind of leadership style. I have heard those concerns articulated by people who do not have an axe to grind. I think that is why it is kind of tricky. I was very pleased with myself when i coined the phrase, rogue advisor, but not necessarily rogue opinions. 0h pretty smart. I like it but one of the bits that ended up on the Cutting Room Floor of the Bbc Two bonanza is when we talked about the northern Ireland Protocol and the Brexit Deal and then you went to the Cutting Room Floor and dragged it out, because then the northern Ireland Protocol became news again and this what is dominic cummings said about what the uk agreed with the eu and why it was kind of in both interests to do it a certain way, allegedly. Our view was that we were signing up to something in terms of ireland that was deliberately opaque on both sides. So it suited both sides to sign up to something that was not what either side really wanted and which punted difficult questions into the future to figure out later. That suited them and it suited us. A European Union deal with the uk that actually left some things unresolved. Who would have thought it, adam . Yeah, but as we have discussed previously, that is a very extreme interpretation of things being left open. Indeed. The European Union had a very different view of what the items that needed to be closed. Gavin, i mean i know the Word Backstop probably brings you out in a rash but what did you think when you heard that little excerpt . Well, its nonsense. There were a few of the details to be tied down, but the government is trying to pretend that it didnt realise when it signed up to the protocol that it was going to mean checks when goods were moving from great britain to Northern Ireland. It is total nonsense. If they had read the explanatory note for the bill they published, j it said very clearly in there. I heard one Government Minister on the broadcast this morning i saying they didnt know there were going to be all these problems and this was never designed to last forever. Well, both of those things are untrue. I lots of people told them there would be these problems and the main change that boris made from Theresas Deal is she had, as you said, a backstop, an insurance policy, in case the main Deal Wasnt ready in time. J whereas this is a front stop. Its going to last forever, unless the northern Ireland Assembly ever votes to remove democratic consent from it gavin, what do you think theyre trying to achieve then . You are a conservative, you dont necessarily have an affinity with this current administration, but you know you are a conservative, youre one of the few people on the planet that properly understands the process that went on here and the next and what it was like to be on the other side of the table to the eu. But the governments now saying they want to rewrite some of the deal, what do you think theyre really up to and do you think that might achieve anything . So first of all, i have an affinity with the government in some i of the things theyre trying to do on zero or levelling up, but not on brexit. |and im afraid the only conclusion| that i can reach about what theyre trying to do is they signed up to something, because they needed a deal to fight an election. Itheir original plan was to Proroguel Parliament and leave without a deal and that didnt work. And then they needed a deal, because it was much easier to fight a general election with an oven ready Brexit Deal than to fight one without it. So they thought, well, well sign up to what we need to sign up to and well try and wriggle out of it down the line. And the eu i think have cottoned | on to that and that is why werel heading to another showdown at The End of september. But why was it ok for you to have a backstop that would be superseded by future negotiations with the eu that meant you didnt need it, but its not ok for this lot to have signed a protocol in the hope that you could then negotiate something that supersedes it thats better . Well, its not for me to talk for the eu, but the eu would say this wasnt a backstop. This wasnt a sort i of reserved option. This was the long Term Solution for the Trading Relationship in terms of how the special problems that northern Ireland Poses when it comes to brexit. But is it fair to say there is a spectrum in how this might have been applied . Yeah. You know. Of course it is, of course it is. I have every sympathy with people in Northern Ireland who, are frustrated with this deal. But the problem laura, as you will know, is if you develop a reputation for people that dont honour things they sign up to, i the other side gets like ultra sticking to the rules about how its to be done. So you lose the benefit of the doubt. There is a pattern of behaviour here going back to the internal markets i bill that we had last autumn. So the eu might well be mindedj to give ground on some of these things if it really trusts the people that its negotiating with. But the danger is the governments | pattern of behaviour has destroyed | that trust and thats going to make extracting concessions them even more difficult. Now, liz, lets talk about the subject that brings you out in a rash. Why there is no reform to Social Care. Because in a Parallel Universe actually tonight, we might have been discussing the governments new plan for fixing Social Care in england, it might be a cap on how much you pay in your lifetime, there might be a change to the means test, there might be an increase in national insurance. And it was planned for yesterday. Really . Yeah, it was planned to be announced yesterday. 0k. But instead, you now have the Press Conference with the Prime Minister on monday, where he was locked up at chequers and the political editor of the Sun Harry Cole said, is it true that youre going to put up national insurance to pay for this cap on Social Care . And this is what the Prime Minister said to harry cole. On your final point about fiscal measures, which i think may be a brilliantly veiled question on the. The long awaited plans to deal with the problem of. Of Social Care and how to cut all that and Health Care as well, a problem that has bedevilled governments for at least three decades, all i can say harry is we waited three decades and youre just going to have to wait a little bit longer. Now, the other significant thing about that quote there is he was actually asked, will you stick to your Manifesto Commitment to not increase national insurance . And i didnt hear him saying, yes, i will stick to that commitment. No he didnt. What do you think about this liz, i know you care passionately about this issue. Yeah. I do, i think along with climate change, this is the challenge of our generation. I think the government has got itself in a complete mess here. We heard first of all there was going to be a levy to pay for Social Care. Then that levy was going to pay for the Nhs Backlog and then Social Care a bit later. And then today we heard, oh, well it might be for the nhs pay rise. And then when you look at national insurance contributions, i mean Sajid Javid is on a conservative Hq Tweet saying absolutely categorically, no rise in income tax, national insurance or vat. If the government comes back in september, say, for example, and says, what they almost were going to say today, were going to put up national insurance by a penny or by two pennies in the pound to pay for Social Care would Labour Support that . Thats not the approach that labour would take. Labour absolutely wants to see a publicly funded needs based system of Social Care. We would only set out details of what we would do if we could show how wed pay for it, which the Government Hasnt done and i think we would absolutely guarantee that the burden doesnt just fall on young people and the low paid alone. Lets try and solve this problem then, liz. So lets say they did come forward with a proposal, as laura says, its one or two pence on national insurance, what else would they have to do in addition to that to get you to vote for it . Weve also got to look, if you dont mind me saying adam, we have got no guarantee any of this is going to go on Social Care at the moment. We dont know if its going on the backlog, if its going on nhs pay. As you know, i have always been, and gavin himself will know this, because we spoke about it when Theresa May was Prime Minister. We did. I have always been very keen to get long Term Cross Party agreement on this and the government doesnt have to, it has a majority, but because its such a long term issue, i would just say this, any mechanism for funding has been to be fair across income and fair across the generations. And its also got to be about more than the cap alone, vital though the cap is. Those are the tests that the Prime Minister has to meet. At the moment i have got no idea where they are on any of those. Interesting. Someone senior in the government said to me about ten days ago, i said, what are you going to do about Social Care . And they said, well no reform, no extra cash. I thought, well, ooh thats interesting, so i think they are particularly the treasury. That sounds like a treasury line, i was going to sex well now, i would never reveal my sources i would not. Well, i wouldnt Say Anything obviously. But i think the government is trying to look at all of the bits of The Machine, all the nuts and bolts and all the spanners, rather than just saying, heres loads more cash for all the problems that liz was talking about. And we have seen in the pandemic as well how fragmented the system is and what a problem that was. Gavin, just quickly from you on this, if you can, do you think that borisjohnson would get away with breaking the Tax Promise to pay for Social Care . Yes. You know, itll be embarrassing, and some voters will understandably be angry about it. I actually agree with this. I dont think national insurance is the best tax to look at for the reasons that she articulated. Our politics is in a Mess L generally at the moment, | but i hope labour would recognise| the Social Care needs more money, and given our fiscal position, that is going to require a tax rise. And, of course, its legitimate to point out when youre breaking your manifesto promise, | but that is what needs to happenl in order to solve this problem. Thats going to be very interesting to watch and see. Very interesting indeed, because there are tory nerves, seriously notjust about putting the Tax Up, but actually about putting the Tax Up without making the case for it before. Enough people around the Westminster Village went, hang on, just got to do this in a way that is a sort of properly thought through. Not that they havent been thinking through the policy for months and months and months, and years and years and years, and ever and ever and ever and ever. One quite interesting thing happened on the floor of the House Today on the final day, didnt it, adam . A massive slap on the wrist for the Labour Mp Dawn butler. Heres how it played out. The Prime Minister has lied to this house time and time again, and its funny that we get in trouble in this place for calling out the lie, rather than the person lying. Order, order, order please reflect on your words and withdraw your remarks. | Deputy Speaker, ive reflected on my words, and somebody needs to tell the truth in this house that the Prime Minister has lied. I order the member to withdrawj immediately from the house for the remainder of the days sitting. Now, that was dawn butler, labour mp, getting properly told off for using the l word, which you may not know, but it is absolutely the case that mps, the convention is theyre not allowed to call Each Other a liar. Theyre not allowed to claim that lies are being told. Liz, what did you make of hearing that . It was the first time ive heard that, i was in a Westminster Hall Debate on Social Care all afternoon. Look, there are. I can understand for people, how frustrating some of the conventions seem. But, you know, the Deputy Speaker did what she had to do. You know, i absolutely feel that, you know, people want to call out what borisjohnson has been doing, and i completely understand that. Butjudith cummings, who is standing in for rosie winterton, who has also been pinged herself, had to do herjob, too. That is just the way that parliament works frustrating though that can be. Gavin, as someone whos got impeccable manners should we change not long ago i wrote about his relationship with the truth. A lot of people feel strongly about this. How would you describe his relationship with facts and truth . I think that pms have used things that were i think that pms have used things that were untrue. I think that pms have used things that were untrue. Holl i think that pms have used things that were untrue. Not deliberately . Know. But that that were untrue. Not deliberately . Know. But that is that were untrue. Not deliberately . Know. But that is my that were untrue. 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[it i will put my Head On and recognise it. ,. ,. , i will put my Head On and recognise it. It is not that sometimes people aet thin. S it. It is not that sometimes people get things wrong it. It is not that sometimes people get things wrong. It it. It is not that sometimes people get things wrong. It is it. It is not that sometimes people get things wrong. It is that get things wrong. It is that politicians then pretend that they have not and pretend that everything is ok. I have to say, though, that Day Theresa may did the nothing has changed, thats a Human Gif that i do sometimes, nothing has changed and its great when people recognise it and then people dont recognise it. Liz, we dont have any conventions in this podcast, as you may be able to work out. Would you like to take this opportunity to call borisjohnson a liar . You wont get a slap on the wrist. I think hes. You know, said things that are completely untrue. He probably knew at the time that he said it. And i think, honestly, ithink that is one of the things in The End that will be his his undoing, that sort of dishonesty. I notice you didnt use the l word, though. You didnt say, he is a liar. You know, the british people are pretty savvy. In The End, they get the measure of a person. And i think that, plus on some really big issues, a lack of. A lack of substance. I mean, you probably talked about it last week, but, you know, his his Speech Or Lack of a speech on levelling up. In The End, i think that sort of the dishonesty and the sort of arrogance that you can say what you whatever you want and nothing will ever come back at you, that plus the sort of real lack of substance on whats the vision for the country now . I think that is what is, next year, were really going to see that harming him. Well, we shall see, and well be back in the autumn with plenty more Tv Newscasts with me, and i do hope that this. Unless we get cancelled, i dont know. These days, you never you never know. But its been very nice having you two on for our final newscast of the parliamentary session of 2021. Thank you, liz. Thank you both. And thank you, gavin. Pleasure. Now, ive got some important Staff News to announce. 0k. I still call him Producer Dino, hell always be Producer Dino to me, even though for about two years hes been editor dino. Today he announced that hes not just leaving newscast, but hes leaving the bbc. And so we thought wed give him a bit of a sendoff. Hello, dino. Hello. Do you know youre on the telly . i know, right . How strange. And for people who didnt know who dino was, or maybe only glimpsed him through the glass when he was allowed to sit in the studio, he invented electioncast, which became brexitcast, which went back to being electioncast, which became coronavirus newscast, which then gave birth to americast, which then became newscast again, and a few other podcasts along the way. But theyre far too cool for us to listen to. So you are quite an impresario. Well, thank you very much, and justjoking aside, ijust want to say how fun its been working with you guys. And really, to be honest, the only reason these podcasts are so successful as they have been is because of you the talent, as we call you. Oh, dont say that. So i actually had a call from our friend Katya Adler earlier, when she found out i was leaving, and we were just saying how rare it is in this business to create something like we did with Brexitcast And Newscast that sort of connects so much with listeners, and all the lovely messages we had from you all and emails and how much everybody cares so much about the podcast. So im really proud of Everything Weve done together, and i will miss you all so much. Oh, thanks. I completely agree. And, yeah, youve been a total superstar. Yeah, so that was very classy, your little Goodbye Speech there. But now were getting some of the classic newscast. Great which is a quiz, and its the Dinos Newscast Graduation quiz. Oh, gosh. Does he know about this . Do you know . No, i dont. So. We havent done one of these for a while so should we do It Turnabout . Yeah. So question one is from Katya Adler, and dont worry, its multiple choice. Which Brexit Buzzwords did Katya And Laura Relish Pronouncing . Hibraltar correct answer . Yes, it is. Back of the net. Right, question two, this is from chris. Which of the following words or phrases was not used in a Brexitcast Or Newscast title . Oh, god, i wish id read this before im reading it out. A, willies in zips. B, cherrypicking. C, intense whipping. Willies in zips. No, you are wrong really . Yes, cherrypicking although he said it every week for about 100 years. Did we not have that in a title . No, there was an episode in February 2018 called sherrypicking. Right, yeah. And bbc sounds described it as this damon albarn, dogs and david davis. Who wrote that . Ring any bells . I dont know. I love damon albarn, but what on earth is going on . Ok, right, lets crack on. Next question, and this is from laura. Yes. Who is Mrs Hairspray . Is it ursula von der leyen, president of the european commission, Theresa May or Katya Adler . Ursula. Yes, correct. Ok, we have a prize for you. It is. And show it to the camera. A photo, yourfavorite photo. Its the greek Prime Minister getting his covid jab. But with your face on it instead. Hold it a bit closer to the camera so everyone can see. There he is, dino sofos, being vaccinated. Bye, dino, and thank you for everything, i really mean it. Thank you so much, love you all very much, and lets go for a drink. Before my mascara runs out of my face, an important clarification that im sure dino would wish us to make. Yes, so newscast is carrying on as a podcast, even in his absence, and will be back as a Tv Show in september. So, television viewers, have a lovely, lovely summer. Well see you on the other side, podcasters. See you tomorrow. Goodnight, everyone. Newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Good evening. Storm clouds have been gathering to the south of the uk, setting us up for quite a big change to the weather this weekend. It is going to be cooler and, for some, especially across southern areas, we will see some really intense thundery downpours. These pulses of heavy, Thundery Rain Pushing Up across southern england, parts of South Wales through the night. At the same time, Mist And Murk and low cloud once again roll in across eastern and central parts of scotland and down the eastern side of england. Another pretty warm night, 17 celsius the overnight low in liverpool. And then into tomorrow, expect pulses of heavy, Thundery Rain At Times across southern england, wales, the midlands, east anglia. Some brighter gaps in between, but the showers could be intense enough to cause some localised disruption. We will see some of this Mist And Murk again for North Sea coasts. North west england, much of scotland, particularly out west, and Northern Ireland seeing sunny spells and still some relative warmth with highs of 26 celsius. Stays dry to the North West on sunday, but with more thunderstorms in the south east. Tonight at 10, the Olympic Games finally open in tokyo with a low key ceremony, and a tribute to those whove died in the pandemic. The Olympic Flame is lit at last, after months of uncertainty about whether the games would even take place. A burst of colour in an almost empty stadium. This will be the first games in history with no spectators. The Olympics Boss said today was a moment of hope. Let us cherish these moments, finally we are all here together. One of the biggest team gbs ever sent to the olympics, with hopes of bringing home up to 70 medals. Were live in tokyo as two weeks of Sporting Action get underway. Also tonight. The pingdemic caused by the pandemic