Of A Hundred in assessing fossilfuel emissions. Now of A Hundred in assessing Fossil Fuel emissions. Now in Bbc News, time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Across continents and cultures there is one common and corrosive political phenomenon. Rising Anger And Alienation amongst voters who feel neglected and ignored by the system. And its overlords. How to fix this disconnect, how to prevent the politics of Hate And Fear filling a void where trust used to be. Well, my Guest Isjess phillips, a leading figure in britains Liberal Party which has last four successive elections. Does the public deserve better politicians . Jess phillips at westminster, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you for having me. Its a great pleasure. Ijust referred there to feelings of anger, disillusionment, alienation. We see reported in polling evidence, Notjust For Britain but from right around the democratic world. I wonder if you experience and feel that from voters in your everyday life as an mp . Yes. Absolutely. There is a mixture of both anger and apathy. But both stem from the same thing. Every single day there in my constituency and with national correspondence people say to me well, whats the point, you are all of the same, youre all after the same thing, all after ordinary people. Theres a sort of apathy that then breaches into very real Aggression And Anger. At the moment i think we are in a more apathetic stage than we were possibly a year ago, two years ago definitely felt like Aggression And Anger on the streets outside the building where i work as well as outside the building where i work in birmingham. Do you think responsibility for the disconnect lies on both sides . I. E its notjust for the politicians, maybe we, the public need to take a little bit of blame as well . Absolutely, i think but politicians need to take the vast majority of the blame not even just for their actions to have led people to feel like that. Very easy to blame it on expected scandals, corruptions that happened Around The World, the idea that theres one rule for them and one for us. You could come up with evidence from every country in the world were politicians have behaved in a certain way. They are always the minority, politicians do really, really badly Expectations Management with the public. And so the public expect something whether thats a perfect policy where nobody will die, or its your politician, your local regional national politician can do has the actual power to do absolutely everything that you want. And that politicians lean into that idea especially at election times. We will go out and offer things, stand in front of buildings wearing hard hats and high0vizjackets acting like we built those buildings, but we had absolutely nothing to do that. Politicians do this, and its almost demanded of you, you sort of have to do it. There is a certainly during election time where showboating is desired by the public and politicians really lean into that. Uses user interesting phrase, you have to do it, you dont have to do it. And sometimes the question is why you do it. You wrote a book, truth to power. And without being too explicit front of our viewers and listeners what ps means, i think we know. So much of what you are dealing within the system, the machinery of politics and governance, if you regard as Ps And Hate being part of that, why do you persist being a politician, you are now an mp . Think that fundamental of the parliamentary democracy is the problem. I think the way it is practice and needs to have people in it with honesty and integrity, and the vast majority i have to say, this is by no means me trying to say im any better than the vast majority, most politicians do it out of a deep sense of hope for the future and a sense of integrity and honesty. Certainly in the british system. The thing that we see, the thing that causes Aggression And Apathy and Disinterest And Distrust in the system, thats got to be a way, ive got to believe there is a way in a liberal democracy of challenging that by both being better and honest about being honest in saying i did not build this building, just standing in front of it. It was to the people that demanded this local hospital, was maintained, and it was you who did it and ijust was a vessel as a representative. It was not me, it was you and there needs to be much more of that. Because people then will have an understanding of what it takes to actually win political battles and to make gains and be part of politics. Its not all just fanfare and big Ticket Policies or even war and peace. The grunt work, the actual reality of what happens in the building i am in, almost nobody knows about. The reality of the job i think that if we can open that up a little bit, theres a sense that politics can be believed in again. And its really important because, what is the alternative . Yeah. I want to talk to about one of your most and passionate interests, and that of course is where your labours lead spokesperson on fighting against pervasive Domestic Violence and trying to get better protection for women and girls across society and culture. Youve been banging that drum for many years. Before you were an mp, you were working in a Womens Refuge to help women who were facing domestic abuse. For all of the Work Youve done, do you reckon do you reckon you achieve more outside parliament than inside . Its a very good question to answer, i have to say. Because theres different layers. I was a local politician on my local council in birmingham, which is the biggest council in europe. Its a huge area. As well as working at womens aid, and i have to say that my direct, one to one level with people and being an expert in The Field whose voice could be heard by those local councils and being able to make the decisions as a local counsellor about where funding went in the local area, as well as being heard by Government Officials because i was an expert, i definitely had a more direct hand whilst not in politics of helping more directly. However, the platform that i have now which is notjust even in the united kingdom, to talk about the issue of domestic abuse has undoubtedly taken the conversation further than i would have managed if i had just stayed working in a local Uk Womens aid. Because you have that platform nationally and to a certain extent internationally, it also comes with a very heavy price and you have been frank and open about the degree to which youve been exposed to threats and intimidation. In one remarkable 24 Hour Period you received online over 600 threats of rape. At some point are you going to say to yourself, this is too dangerous . Never. Never will i think it is too dangerous, and its because my friend Jo Cox was killed in the street within of me being elected to parliament. Killed for her political beliefs. And i am never going to think, i might think its not worth it, because im not achieving an outcome. The thing that would make me give up would be if i thought my voice could no longer be heard in the conversation about violence against women and girls that i was not achieving even marginal gains. But the reality is that you dont stop violence, Abuse And Aggression especially against women by allowing them to be silenced. If i stopped doing it, the threat would not disappear in the world, there will still be hatred, intolerance, those same people will still exist and so you have to have a voice that can counter it and if your voices can be heard its vital you keep using it. I think the question would i would die for myjob, i would never know and even others would answer the question yes i am, because i am not. Im not willing to give my life myjob. But the fact that i have to be asked that question makes it that i want to carry on going. Because it should not be the case that young women democratically elected have to feel they have to choose between their life and theirjob. That is worth anything to keep on going in the face of that. You talk of the level of Hate Youve experienced and right now, certainly uk politics, we see hate expressed in many different ways, particularly online towards politicians for all sorts of reasons, which appear to be connected with cultural difference. And peoples identities feeling threatened. And they, in response, threaten others. Do you see what you go through as part of that . This Phrase Culture War that has become this Phrase Culture War that has become so prevalent, is that relevant to what you are experiencing . Its relevant to a cover all term, and attach because of an identity as a woman. If i was a man saying the things that i do and say, i would suffer less. So there is an element of that but the idea that a Culture War is a new thing or that Identity Politics is a new thing, i think is for the birds. I grew up in thatchers britain the 1980s, and the asian kids in my class at school in birmingham, without question, were suffering vile and vicious politics against him because of their culture, because of a Culture War. We just call it that, and unfortunately its not new, particularly. I cannotjust blame the current populist leaders Around The World for this. Theres political gains to be made in fear. People will use what is a Culture War that undoubtedly has a different volume because of the nature of Social Media and the internet. That did not exist in my childhood. But they will use that for their benefit, but yesterday around this time in parliament, people keep saying, you know, i had a politician saying the Culture War is the battle of britain, it is the greatest Thing Weve faced. Ijust think in a time where we have Climate Change and frankly if a man wants to try being a woman for a couple of weeks. It was a tory mp who said, no mistake this Culture War is the issue of her age, the struggle of our generation, nothing matters were, this is the battle of britain. He was talking in the context of the huge furore of the Post Euro 2020 final, three players who happen to be black players for the England Team missed their penalties and they then suffered the most horrendous, horrible, violent racist abuse online. And now theres a whole debate about whether boris johnsons government, which some of the members of which had said that taking the knee by footballers of the protest against racism was quote, gesture politics, whether they are part of the problem. Should labour be engaging in this . Should you be warriors in the Culture War . I think theres a difference between engaging with the situation thats happening. Yhese arguments and these rows are happening, but what we should never be doing is stoking it. The politicians will use a Culture War, the idea that this is the worst thing that we have to face in our Age Itsjust absolutely for the birds and could only ever be said by somebody who has never faced any actual real challenge. I suppose one question is that for the Labour Party as the organisation, where it stands on this, some people will say that gareth southgate, the england manager, and footballers like Marcus Rashford and others have been more effective at speaking out, delivering a message about how a diverse, United Britain can be both patriotic and also open to all races, all skin colours more effective delivering a message than your leader Keir Starmer. But why shouldnt they be . They are citizens of the united kingdom with huge platforms who have the Will And Support of the public behind them. Why shouldnt they be better at doing it . Its not necessarily even a criticism of Keir Starmer that these brilliant and intelligent and kind and decent men, who the british public, regardless of their politics, seem to follow, they dont suffer from the same division necessarily that we politicians have created, rightly or wrongly. But i dont think Theres Anything wrong with the fact that these brilliant citizens are delivering this message. Because politics is not forjust people in shirts in westminster. It makes me happy that they are good at delivering those messages. Do i think the Labour Party needs to be passionately and deeply of its principles on this and many things . Absolutely. But many people, jess phillips, do not think labour exhibits that passion, that real deep, genuine engagement. As many, frankly, right now are asking what and who is the Labour Party for . Do you have a very concise answer to that . I would argue that the Labour Party is for everybody. I think that politics in the last decade, certainly in britain its funny when people make this criticism of the Labour Party because they did not make that particular criticism about the Labour Party certainly they were making it when Jeremy Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party, i dont think anyone ever accused him of not being passionate about his politics. The british public didnt want him to be the leader of their country, either. The Labour Party has got to find a way that it can not isolate people but also speak very passionately and to be honest i dont think its that complicated. The Labour Party is for progress. Its as simple as that. The Conservative Party is they are to conserve things the way they are, the power structures, for the people, as they currently exist. The Labour Party has got to be about the fact that theres absolutely no way that my children, Members Of Parliament will progress past where i have achieved. Almost everyone in my constituency, the idea that their child could afford to buy a house as they were able to in the 1990s, is just they would not even expect it. Peoples expectations of Progress Have slipped very, very badly. And in the past number of decades in politics. Your raised so many interesting points there, Butjust One specific point which is very relevant in the Labour Party is you did not make any mention of working people of the Working Class, or any reference to class whatsoever. Is that a kind of language which was, lets face it, directly relevant to the formation of the Labour Party which is become entirely irrelevant . I think its largely irrelevant to people i represent who would almost certainly by Column Writers be described as Working Class, but if you were to ask them there probably would not have an answer. They would probably answer about the class of their parents really come from, their sort of tradition and largely there would be Working Class because that would be the vast majority of the country. And would you as well. This is. Crosstalk class politics is for the birds. Do you have no class . Are you classless . What is your class . I suppose im very middle class if i had to pick a class. I am, and a Member Of Parliament. I live in a bought house, it was my mum and Dads Test of a persons class. But actually theres no reasonable test of what it means to be Working Class. Also then you are getting into the issue of the idea of an underclass, which the vast majority of people for example, who may be reliant on welfare, or benefits, of which i have been on myself, theres all sorts of different ways. But theres no agreed to system. But even in your even your slightly complex answer, look at the criticism, and you have from some people in the Labour Movement and i will quote you paul embree, a union activist, a Firefighter And Labour activists, he says that people like you, even though you are extremely good at connecting with everybody, from all walks of life to make you in The End Have A Quote On quote from him, a metropolitan, liberal worldview. And that you are betraying the interests of traditional communities who voted labour in the past and we have seen, refused to vote labour in the last few years and particularly those so called � Red Wall� constituencies in the north of england . Is funny, i went to the By Election recently and during the � i9 election, so many Elections Iforget which one, like they have merged into one. I went to lots of the Red Wall seats and its funny when people describe me as being the metropolitan elite because every single one of them was considerably, what i would describe as more affluent than the seat i actually represent. Theres this ridiculous rhetoric that gets spouted as if these towns are all sort of depressed places where, you know, the people are taking part in some form of class struggle. The vast majority of houses that i visited in ashfield for example, an ex mining area, were brand new built homes. Two cars, double drive. But theyre not voting labour, many of them. Thats actually true. But i think the idea of nostalgia with the Labour Party has meant to stand for has not moved on in those peoples mines. The kind of people saying, liberal metropolitan elite, but you know what, ijust said it myself, im a Member Of Parliament, im undoubtedly part of an elite class of people. I would not try to deny it. But the idea that Theres Anything wrong with being liberal and metropolitan, i live in a city, im not going to deny that, and i dont hate immigrants. But neither do those people in those Red Wall seats, and we are making, i come from a feminist organisation, before i was a Member Of Parliament i worked at a very successful entry activated feminist organisation in a Red Wall seat. All of the rhetoric said as if all people in this one place think like this and all people in this one place, the people in burnley think and want the same things as the people in brighton. They want a decent start for their kids, to be able to buy their houses, and go on holiday once a year, and want to have a decent life and decent old age. The idea that those things cannot be united by the Labour Party, not suggesting for a second that we are there yet but the idea that they could not be, that theres too many different views of people who some people work at universities and living council houses, isjust, im afraid its the rhetoric of division. We call it passion, and im feeling your passion, and your belief that the Labour Party has a future. But look around you and look what happened to the Socialist Party in france, look what happened to the Socialist Party in greece. Those parties are effectively finished. Could that happen to the Labour Party and is the only way to avoid it to get away from a sort of tribal notion that im labour through and through and always will be and start thinking about building a Progressive Coalition . Yes, is probably the answer that question. The idea, Tribalism And Idea of i am labour, i always have been, theres bits of my constituency that are like that and you know, its always nice on Election Day to go knocking doors in those places but i fundamentally dont like that. I dont like the idea. And its funny and im a total hypocrite because obviously i was raised to vote labour, i vote labour almost certainly because my parents and grandparents did, and i come from a long tradition, but i think it serves the people poorly. It serves the people poorly in any area that is a � safe seat� for those votes to be taken for granted whether thats a Conservative Seat in the south of england like that was sought recently, orfor northern Towns Labour seats. I want the people to be demanding much more from their politicians. Could you imagine being a leading voice in a different kind of left of centre Political Organisation . Ie, something that moves beyond the Labour Party as it is today . I guess i would want that to be what the Labour Party is, and whilst i think the element of the Labour Partys branding and the element of the tribal, of it, and they give us much stronger than people realise. But thats ultimately what i would want is a progressive politics that brings people together. And to be part of a Movement Thatjust puts progress before anything else. Jess phillips, we have to end there and i suspect that conversation will continue. Thank you for being on hardtalk. Hello there. Summer weather is increasingly set to take hold over the next few days. It is looking largely dry. Well see increasing amounts of sunshine and increasing temperatures as well, and it is all because of High Pressure. Now, currently, this area of High Pressure is sitting to the South West of us, but it is going to build towards the uk over the next few days, hence the increasing amounts of sunshine and those higher temperatures as well. But actually, through wednesday, many spots will see a decent amount of sunshine. We will have quite a lot of cloud through the morning across some Eastern Parts of scotland and eastern england, tending to retreat towards the coast through the day, and also, more Cloud Into Northern Ireland and western scotland. And actually, as that cloud thickens up through the afternoon, it could even produce the Odd Spot of drizzle. But elsewhere, some good spells of sunshine. Temperatures in the sunniest spots up to 2a or 25 degrees. A bit breezy for north western areas and also for some eastern coasts. Now, as we head through Wednesday Night into thursday, we will see more Cloud Rolling down across Northern Ireland and scotland, getting into Northern England and wales by the end of the night. Clear spells further south, a pretty mild night 11 15 degrees in most places. Into thursday, we are going to see more in the way of Cloud Pushing Southwards Down into england and wales. Therell be some spells of sunshine and certainly, some brighter conditions developing for Northern Ireland and for scotland, and in the best of the sunshine, temperatures again getting up to around 2a or 25 degrees. And for friday, many spots can expect to see plenty of Blue Sky and sunshine. A bit more cloud at this stage across north western parts of scotland, Northern Ireland, but certainly more cloud across the northern isles. The Sunnier Skies further south lifting those temperatures up to 25 26, maybe at this stage, up to 27 degrees. And that sets us up for the weekend because our area of High Pressure is going to become firmly established across the uk, bringing lots of dry weather, lots of sunshine. You can see frontal systems close to the far north perhaps giving a bit more cloud at times, but with our High Pressure in place, we can expect some pretty warm weather through both saturday and sunday. So, lets look at some city forecasts. You can see across shetland, Itll Stay cloudy and a bit cooler, 15 or 16 degrees. But most other places, fine, dry, some spells of sunshine and temperatures easily up to 27, maybe 28 degrees. This is Bbc News with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and Around The World. More than 70 people are now known to have died during five days of Unrest And Looting in south africa. President biden accuses republican controlled states of mounting a dangerous attack on Voting Rights in america. A question of consent why sexual Consent Education is being made mandatory in parts of australia. And the forgotten festival being brought to the screen in a summer of soul