Now on bbc news, the media show. Hello. Have we got a scoop for you bbc bags top Newspaper Execs to discuss all things tabloid and Mass Market. The headline have our red tops got their mojo back . The suns Front Page last week that ended Matt Hancocks cabinet career, at least for now, was a classic splash not seen too often since the Phone Hacking Scandal. It had it all an illicit relationship, hypocrisy, and alleged cronyism. A Dynamite Combination that ultimately cost Mr Hancock his job. Maybe the ingredients werent quite right when it came to other recent scoops like the mirrors Dominic Cummings Trip to barnard castle, or the daily mails investigations into Covid And Care homes. No heads rolled after those exclusives. But is there now a sense, despite issues over circulation and revenues, that Fleet Street is back to its pugnacious best . Well, i told you we had a scoop. Three of the biggest beasts in fleet Street Nowjoin us for their media show debuts. Take a bow, victoria newton, editor in chief of the Sun And Sun on sunday. Hi, victoria. Hello. Hiya. A classic Tabloid Pun on your Front Page the day after englands footballers beat germany. 55 years of hurt never stopped us raheem ing. How long did it take to come up with that one . Well, you know, we have the best Headline Writers in the world on our back bench. It took him about two seconds brilliant stuff tobyn andrae, Deputy Editor of the daily mail. Tobyn, great to have you here. Good afternoon. Yeah. Your paper is printed in a tabloid format. So youre a Tabloid Writer are you still a bit sniffy over there at North Cliff House . Not in the least. No, weve always been great supporters of the popular market and, indeed, newspapers right across the board. Nice one, tobyn. And emily sheffield, editor of the evening standard. Hi there, emily. Hi, how are you . Im very well, thank you. Youre celebrating your one Year Anniversary this year congratulations as editor. Your predecessor, george osborne, dropped the word london from the London Evening standard. Now, my mum in derbyshire what would she find interesting in the Londoners Diary or my London Section at the back of the magazine . You cant be trying to make it out to be a national publication, are you . No, quite the opposite. Since i took over, ive doubled down on all things london. Excellent. All right, 0k although londoners might not be too happy about that. The suns hancock scoop. Weve to get into that, havent we . Thats the only place to start. Already a contender for story of the year, the paper showed Matt Hancock in a steamy clinch, liaison, whatever you want to call it, with his aide, gina coladangelo. And the images appear to have been taken from Cctv Footage filmed in Mr Hancocks government office. Victoria newton, Simple Question how did The Sun get the story . We were contacted by a Whistle Blower who said he had information about Mr Hancock having an illicit affair with an aide. And the Whistle Blower was outraged at his behaviour theres parts of that I Cant tell you why but the hypocrisy he felt he was seeing, was that this is a man whod been on national tv, stared down the barrel of the Tv Lens and said, you must stay at home, protect lives, protect The Nhs and wed had 18 months of social distancing rules that he himself was not following. So that was how the Whistle Blower got in touch with us. Did you have any qualms about the story, and, in particular, using the video . Yes, of course. I mean, we believe in responsible journalism, and my first thought when this information came in was, my goodness, can this be real . Can he really be doing that at 3pm in the afternoon . I literally couldnt believe it. So, we have loads of checks and balances that we have to follow procedurally. We got our legal team involved immediately, to get advice from them before we went any further, and then, obviously once wed seen the footage for ourselves, we were careful to match up images of Matt And Gina together on their day to day working lives and to really make sure that it was definitely her. I mean, it was 100 Matt Hancock as soon as i saw it, i knew that as soon as you watch the video, his mannerisms and everything, there was no doubt. But then obviously, of course, we went through all the legal procedures to make sure we were in a good position to be able to run the story. Has your collar been felt by the police or Secret Service about how you got the footage . No. Laughter. Yet . Not yet but if it is, im perfectly happy with how we conducted the story, how we ran it, and, you know, we consulted top lawyers before we went ahead with publication. Yeah, i mean, you mentioned the Whistle Blower what steps have you taken to protect that source . I mean, did you warn them about possible repercussions and all that . Yes, of course, we would always do that. We would never reveal a source. Ive done everything i can to protect that person, and id rather go to jail than hand the name over. Right, 0k. Im sure the source is pleased to hear that. Phone Hacking Scandal nothing to do with you, nothing to do with The Sun, it was the news of the world, and that is defunct but did the Phone Hacking Scandal give you pause for thought over using that footage leaked from a private office . Privacy is always going to be an issue, but the overwhelming public interest was just so blindingly obvious from the start. I almost didnt need a lawyer to tell me that. I could just see it there for myself. But, of course, that whole period, things have moved on since then, and we are a hugely compliant company, and there are lots of checks and balances in place, and we all have training. So i dont think were in the same place that we were then. But The Public Interest to me was so overwhelming not just the hypocrisy of the social distancing, but the massive question it threw up was, was he in a relationship with this woman when he hired her . And he still hasnt really answered that question publicly. Hes only admitted to the social distancing breach. And i think were still all waiting to hearfrom him on that one. Yeah, i mean, the public Interest Point you make there, very compelling. But two marriages are now in trouble, children are involved. Would you have run the story involving the Health Secretary if there was no pandemic . Thats an interesting question. I think we probably would, because i would be looking at the issue around when he hired her wed have to be clear on that, i guess. And, as for the issue of the families, we went to great lengths. None of the children were named in the story. After Day One of the story, i took our photographers and reporters off that home address. Youll find other papers still carried on running pictures i chose not to of the wife. As i say, The Public Interest in the story was so overwhelming that i think weve handled it really well. Emily, if i can turn to you. After the story broke, you ran a Front Page in the standard featuring a very large picture of Mr Hancocks wife, martha. Why did you decide to focus on that side of the story . Because she was going to take the direct hit from the revelations. 0ur Headline was very much about what he would be under fire for, and, following very much what victoria said, this was clearly public interest. We also remain. We think big questions remain was he in a relationship already when he hired her . And we debated, actually, for an incredibly long time, and i was. Its always the stories, i would say, break when you are in the middle of something else i was actually in the middle of doing some filming, i wasnt on edition. I was having to move, i was on whatsapp. 0ur Information was, and i went back and forth about this, and I Cant give too much detail, is that maybe she was not entirely adverse to being photographed. Right. 0k. Er. Can you elucidate a little . No. 0k, she wanted to get her side of the story out there. That shes, you know. I really, i dont want to elucidate. All right. But we do go into a lot of, particularly. My early decision was not to put her on the front. Interesting. Were pretty careful. I think all of us, as editors, very much feel, you know, the right people should be taking the public hit. Right, 0k. Of course, Martha Isnt here to give her side of the story, but we hear what youre saying. Tobyn, you also ran stories on Mr Hancocks wife, martha, as well. Why did you go down that road . Well, i think in the case of the story, she is absolutely at the heart of it, as well, because aside from the political scandal and the implications that come from that, it is a very, very human betrayal, as well, and i think, actually, that theres no reader who wouldnt have anything but the utmost sympathy for a woman in her position. So, we did cover that. We thought very carefully i about how we go about that. And we have every Sympathy And Support for her. But, as you say, theres a question about going forwards would we carry on doing that . No. And i hope that she has Thei Space now to rebuild her life and her childrens. Lives as she chooses. Absolutely. I mean, victoria, youve talked about not focusing too much on martha in the days after the brilliant scoop, but you did set a Hare Running there, and emily decides what shell do and tobyn and his folks decide what theyre going to do, but you set the Hare Running. Do you feel comfortable about that when it comes to the kids and martha . Well, theres always the decision you have to make when you weigh up do the public have a right to know how their Health Secretary has been behaving versus the right to privacy of his family. I felt strongly and i think everybody� s agreed with me the lord chiefjustice, the justice secretary, the Lord Chancellor have all agreeed that the story was in The Public Interest. So, thats what you weigh up on a daily basis on stories. Yeah, of course. Lets broaden the discussion a little bit. Tobyn, the mail turns a century and a quarter old this year. Sum up its role in public life, if you could particularly in the digital age. Well, i think fundamentally its role | is to give a voice to the voiceless, | to campaign vigorously. For the causes and beliefs that lie at its heart, and, fundamentally, to entertain, engage, inform its readers, and, of course, above all, i try and sell as many newspapers as we can or attract as many eyeballs as we can online whilst sticking to ourjournalistic integrity, our beliefs, and the passion would try and bring to every story, i whether its light or shade. I mean, the great newspapers, the great interviewers humphreys, paxman, dimbleby they sniff out lies, hypocrisy, unfairness, corruption. Does that sum up, do you think, part of the role of the mail in society . Absolutely. Well, following on from| the Matt Hancock story, we had a bold Front Page with, how can he cling on . Which i think is peoples instinctive reaction, other than, bizarrely, the Prime Minister and the former Health Secretary. So i think its headlines like that, projected with vigour, that do bring about change i in this case, political change but theres other stories that we have covered,. Whether its dementia care, whether its ppe, that we. Project with confidence, we get to the heart of the story, and we can make real impact and bring about change for the better, which we are very, very proud of doing. L ive mentioned your work on Covid And Care homes, which was superb. Paul dacre, the previous editor, of course, before geordie greg, 2016, of course, he had the headline, enemies of the people, and pictures of three high courtjudges. Would you have that on the Front Page today . I suspect not. Every editor makes. Their ownjudgements. Of course, its always great to be wise with hindsight. Would Paul Dacre use the same headline again . I Cant Speak for him. He was a tremendously gifted editor from whom i learned an awful lot. I but its a fast paced newsroom | sometimes mistakes do get made. I Cant Promise they wont ever get made again. Thats part of the risk that we take every day with our Front Pages,. The stories that we cover. And we shouldnt be afraid of being challenging when we do that. Mm, i mean, given the Mission Statement that you laid out a few seconds ago, that headline and that Front Page didnt seem to fall into those categories, did it, really . Well, it provoked a very, very strong reaction, not all of it positive, i but we moved forward. Theres a new editor at the helm, has a different way of editing the paper. But that doesnt take away from the astonishing legacy that Paul Dacre left behind. Well, the mail seems to be comfortable Kicking Down as well as punching up. I mean, youll go after those who are not necessarily powerful or part of the establishment. Are benefit cheats, for instance, as Fair Game as Matt Hancock . Theyre in a different category, but i think anyone who cheats the system or, indeed, who breaks the law risks being held to account by the standards that apply both in public life and in personal responsibility. Free theyre obviously of a different magnitude of offence, and hopefully we will balance that out in the way the stories are presented in the paper. Victoria, The Suns not averse to a bit of Kicking Down, is it . Im not sure thats entirely fair. I think i edit the paper in a different way to perhaps some of my predecessors. I make it my conscious decision to work with people on stories a lot of the time, and, you know, its. I have brilliant relationships with many celebrities and their agents, and i think we do a lot. Weve turned into a very positive force for good. I mean, so many of the campaigns weve done during the pandemic have been massively in The Public Interest. For example, we got 50,000 readers to volunteer to help staff the Vaccination Centres with ourjabs army campaign. You know, we are a tremendous force for good. And i think the other point i wanted to make, going back to your one of your other questions, was really interesting that, six weeks before the pandemic started, i took over. It was quite a different experience, being an editor. One of the things i noticed was the huge appetite from the public for information about this terrible coronavirus. So, you saw a huge uplift in newspaper sales, and digitally traffic was through the roof. People were desperate for information and they turned to us, as newspaper brands, as trusted sources. And hand in glove with that, you have the government coming to us saying, we really need your help to get this public Service Message out there. So this sort of feeds back into the questions you were asking at the beginning about the role of Mass Market brands and the pandemic has proved how vitally important we are. Absolutely right. As Mass Market brands, you can get that message out to as many people as possible in one go. I mean, emily, the evening standards had a long established relationship with the conservatives and the Conservative Party. George osborne, of course, was editor in chief of the standard. Is it a political paper . Very political. We are incredibly influential in westminster. In fact, only a year ago, we were voted the most read by mps. I think thats got a lot to do with our physical presence in westminster. I mean, you literally cant escape us. Copies are taken by the Westminster Doorkeeper to the Tea Room and other strategic locations when you walk out as an mp or a Spad Or Aide you know, theyre there in the tube station, if you take a taxi at the member doors, and members entrances, theres a big pile. Were even sitting in the underground car park. So, within westminster we are widely read, very influential, were breaking. Often the time they get us is between 1 30 and 2pm, and theyve got big statements to make that afternoon, often big debates. I mean, i remember on the first day i arrived here, which was injuly, so ijoined, like victoria did you join during the pandemic . Just before. Just a few weeks before. I mean, ijoined after the first big lockdown. And on my very first day, i had to do the paper, put that the bed, and then go straight to westminster to interview Boris Johnson with our brilliant, sort of, Lobby Legend political editorjoe murphy. And as his Head Aide came out the door to meet us, she had a copy of the standard tucked under her arm. I was standing a little bit behind joe, so i dont think she saw me. And i know a few slightly bad tempered words were expressed about our quite waspish leader we had done that day on Borisjohnson And Sadiq and the handling of the pandemic. And the paper must have literallyjust landed. But are you a political paper for the Conservative Party . No. I think we would change. I think we could change depending on who we wanted, who we thought was best to lead the country. We didnt come out for corbyn. I dont remember many newspapers coming out for corbyn. Even the guardian didnt come out for corbyn. Yeah, i think that might be the point. We did, by the way, i mean, way before my time, come out for tony blair. So no, i would absolutely take each election depending on who we thought was the right person, that our readers thought as well to take the country forward in the best possible way. And thats the same for the mayor, as well. Sure. I mean, tobyn, the hope is any scoop, especially a political one, will have real impact and force change. Theyre notjust there to win awards. But is that more difficult in an era where politicians tend to try to tough things out . Resignations shame, one would say doesnt come as easily to public figures these days. Well, in a way, that comes back to the point i was talking about earlier, which is that, in regards to the Hancock Story, was that clearly the view had been taken in downing street, which was symptomatic of a widerl feeling, i think, in downing street, that theyre going to try and out ride the media. J theyre going to carry on doing what they want, not to be held to account by The Press or by broadcast media. | and i think they were proved humiliatingly wrong in this instance. The leaders across Fleet Streetl were universally condemnatory. 0urFront Page, i repeat, how can he cling on . I lo and behold, within 24 hours, he hadnt. I it had been the hope, i think, in downing street, no great secret, that it would be a three Day Wonder and we could all move on, but they were very, very wrong. And they paid a heavy| political price for that. Victoria, do you think its trickier for scoops to really land these days, because of what some people suggest is an age where there is no shame any more . She chuckles i dont know. I think some of the other stores youre referring to, things like the scandal around whether Priti Patel bullied her staff, you have thejenrick scandal. Thejenrick one was really complicated, i think, for the public to understand. A lot of detail. And in terms of the Priti Patel one, it wasnt something that affected the whole country. It was a row about how she was treating civil servants, so it didnt affect everybody up and down the country in the way this story did. I think thats why it got the cut through, because lockdown has affected every single One Of Us in the Way Nobody has ever lived through anything like this. I think thats the difference. 0k. Im interested now in how scoops might help the bottom line. Victoria, in the olden days, a scoop like yours wouldve had people rushing to the newsstands to get their copy of the newspaper, to see those pictures. It did. I suspect there was a lot of traffic to the website, as well. But surely not as much as perhaps you would have got if people bought a physical copy, right . Well, the physical copies of our paper went up considerably that morning on friday, and also on The Morning Of sunday morning, which was the day after the resignation. So people rushed to the new stand to buy more copies. 0bviously, during lockdown times, we havent been able to sell as many copies because shops have been closed. Thankfully, things are opening up now. But, digitally, its a fascinating story. So, that video, when we put the video out there, its actually been the biggest, most viewed video in The Suns history. And i think the reason for that is that people really wanted to see for themselves is it true, is it real . Sometimes you can look at a grab at the picture and really wonder what is the circumstances, is it really that bad, could it have been faked . And when you watch the video, you know this is real. The traffic to our website and our apps over the whole of that weekend was hugely up. And when i start my day editing the newspaper, the top of my Conference List is google search Whats Everybody searching for on google this morning, what are they looking at on Facebook And Twitter . So, that informs where we are. 0n The Morning Of the Hancock Story, on the friday morning, all the top items on google, facebook, twitter was all hancock. Thats when you know it has national cut through. I mean, did you pay the Whistle Blower . Did you pay for this story . Im not going to get into that. I need to protect the Whistle Blower. Why did i bother asking that question . Nice try. I know, i know, pathetic really. I suppose i want to ask you, tobyn the mail has been targeted by campaigners, including stop funding hate. Why do you think that is . Because it has very strong, l very powerful views that not everybody agrees with, i much to my amazement. But i think often they pick wholly the wrong target. I the daily mail, amongst other things, won the inaugural Public Service in Journalism Award from the british Journalism Awards this year. We are a, i believe, tremendous force for good, notjust in holding the powerful to account, but particularly in some of the campaigns that weve| done over the past decades, and particularly in this year. With our mail force campaign, which raised over £25 million in the space of 12 months, i for ppe and computers for disadvantaged children which i think is an astonishing i achievement testimony, really, to our readers generosity, and their sense of engagement. With a brand that they really trust |and feel is a part of the family, | not just another thing they buy. Its part of their identity, it shares their beliefs, i it supports them where| things are going wrong. And we supplied 42 Million pieces. Of ppe to the Front Line of The Nhs, which i think is a, kind of, first for newspapers. Yeah, its a powerful campaign. How much money do you think you would have forked over for the Hancock Story . That wouldnt be for me to say. Laughter not on this show, anyway. Not on this show, no. I but, victoria, if you could sendl the cheque to my usual address, that would be great. Indeed, indeed. Emily, how reliant are you on commuters returning to the offices, and do you worry about Advertiser Boycotts . Because thats obviously your main source of income. We are we do want commuters to come back. We want our advertisers to feel confident, our Print Advertisers to feel confident that they are being picked up by their usual audience, but we have been doing Home Delivery to 200,000 homes. And we pivoted on the first day of lockdown, which i think is astounding. Weve kept on the streets the whole way through this pandemic, through successive lockdowns, and i think there was an incredibly important thing for us to do, and, as you mentioned earlier, clive, we are a Thinner Paper at the moment, but we cant help a pandemic and i think it was incredibly important for all of us here at the standard that we never disappeared from the streets. Because i was not editor when we went into lockdown. You know, london emptied, we were in the most scary situation, looking at what was happening in italy. And i see. Ive grown up with the standard and i think, rather like the red bus, it is like a symbol, like a Legacy Symbol of london. I think if we have disappeared, that wouldve been terrible. We have taken a financial hit, but we are seeing our advertisers coming back some of them are still being hit by the pandemic, travel, we have big advertisement from travel. But we are really confident they all want to return and the paper will return to its normal thickness. But, at the same time, i want us to pivot more digitally. We are seeing much of our younger audience reading digital only. 0ur Revenues there have grown dramatically. So has our audience. Since i was able to put all my restructures in, from The End of october, we have gained an extra Eight Million unique Viewers Month on month. Alright. It is going well. Its great that the paper continued to get out there on the streets during the pandemic. Very quick question, victoria. Erm, has rupert been in touch . He must be chuffed. Well, hes actually in the uk at the moment, so ive seen a fair bit of him. Hes taking you out for dinner, then, isuspect. Oh, yeah and its all on him. What a fantastic show. Great to see you guys. Thank you forjoining us. Victoria newton, editor in chief of The Sun and The Sun on sunday. Tobyn andreae, Deputy Editor of the daily mail. And emily sheffield, editor of the evening standard. Thats it. The media show will be back same time next week. Thank you for watching. Hello there. More green around at the moment. Low pressure pushing that around, at times zero fluids up into scotland with bands of blustery showers to the south. Some unseasonably windy weather around the Coast And South east of england all the way from dorset to suffolk, 50 miles an Hour Gust in the morning. Busy for england and wales and we have it ran further north that really never clears away from northern england, pushes into eastern is linde. Elsewhere, brighter, maybe some sunshine, we will continue to see some showers which could be heavy as well. Cooler generally on tuesday but especially chilly in Eastern Scotland and the North East of england. And we have this patchy rain. Elsewhere, brighter with some sunshine but showers are likely to develop, those are likely to be heavy and hungry across wales and midlands towards lincolnshire with Afternoon Temperatures up as high as 20 or 21 celsius. Request this is bbc news. Im david eades. As us Troops Head for the exit in afghanistan, the taliban seizes more districts, and over 1,000 afghan soldiers are said to have fled the country. In england, where coronavirus cases are sharply on the rise, the Prime Minister confirms plans to scrap most remaining restrictions in two weeks. More abductions in nigeria as Gunmen Kidnap at least 140 schoolchildren in the North West of the country. And the british Teenager Emma Raducanus wimbledon journey ends abruptly as she pulls out injured in the fourth round