Rights. Its about who we are. Thats why were not going to tolerate attempts to destabilize our democratic elections and we would respond. I think there is a genuine prospect to significantly improve relations between our two countries. Do you believe you can trust it . This is not about trust. This is about selfinterest. The administrations in both parties historically have tried different postures. But nothing compares to the past four years as donald trump as president backing up putins propaganda while welcoming his election help in the u. S. Just about everyone in the u. S. Agrees today is quite different already under biden. That includes putin himself. President biden is an experienced statesman, and in this he is very different from president trump. Lets begin tomorrow with Michael Steele and julia jaffe. Julia, what do you think we should take as americans watching all this in their first faceoff . Well, i think what the Biden Administration wants us to take away from this is exactly the opposite of what the media is doing. I think the Biden Administration wants this to be a nonnewsworthy, more regular event where the american side talks to the russian side and there isnt all this hoopla and Media Circumstance and pomp and circumstance around it, that it is just like any meeting with any other country, that it is more predictable and focussed on tangible things, rather than press opportunities. But and i think the russians are pleased to be recognized as kind of equals, as partners, and to be talked to at all, frankly. Michael . Yeah. I think thats exactly right. I mean, putin was just glad to be in the room. This is not a question of, oh, you know, having the same kind of relationship where he would walk under that stage as much more of a dominant player over trump as we have seen, you know, when they have met before. Biden brought a whole different caliber of that to that relationship, you know, acknowledged by putin himself when he says hes a skilled diplomatic kind of guy, you know . And this is good for the country. It is good for our allies and it is good for the relationship between our two nations. Either you cannot repeat enough and make clear enough the outside of Nuclear Weapons, there is not much else there. All right . Youre talking about an economy that is, what, 1 2 trillion versus 21 trillion here in the u. S. There are a whole lot of differences that putin understands exists between our two nations. The lynch pin in that is Nuclear Weapons and the role that russia plays in places like the middle east and the impact that they can have certainly and have had and are having currently in eastern europe. So that sort of keeps them in the conversation. And, so, what biden did today and, you know, i think a lot of people agree was a reset over what we have had over the last four or five years. And now there is going to be some adjustment on the part of the russians in dealing with the United States. And, michael, the president obviously knew there was going to be a lot of attention on this even to the point julia makes, perhaps more than they wanted, given the mood theyre setting. He did have a little bit of a flash point here with a reporter. Take a look. Why are you so confident hell change his behavior, mr. President. Yeah. Im not confident he will change his behavior. What do you do all the time . You said in the next six months. What i said was, lets get it straight. I said what will change the behavior is if the rest of the world reacts to them and it diminishes their standing of the world. Im not confident of anything. Im just stating a fact. Michael, first of all, journalism 101, you always throw out the extra question. People say why bother . And then every so often you get the Subject Marching back. He wants a clear guide post of what they are and are not expecting. Yeah, politics 101, keep walking. Dont stop. Just when you end it, keep going. Let them throw your questions. You dont hear i hear nothing. Were walking. Thats what he should do. But having come back to answer the question, yeah, he got he got short, and he what he heard her say was a misinterpretation of what he had been saying. And, so, he wanted to clarify that. And, so, im not as exercised about that because compared to what we have seen president s the last president do and with the press and reporters, okay. And biden came out immediately and apologized. He said, yeah, i was short and i shouldnt have been. But it does speak to i think the kind of pressure that sort of exists around this relationship as its being reshaped by the Biden Administration between the u. S. And russia. And, so, he wants everyone to understand especially russia. He doesnt want the, you know, im confident that putin is going to change his behavior. He doesnt want that narrative out there because he recognizes who hes dealing with and he recognizes that thats not going to be the kind of position thats going to achieve the goals for the United States, particularly if putin takes that and goes, oh, so thats what you are trying to do and it changes the whole dynamic. So he wanted to be clear. Yeah. And, julia, on all that hacking and sort of digital Cyber Attacks here, some of which seem to be linked back to the putin government, obviously the Mueller Report documented that in that context, but recently there have been others that might be nonstate actors or criminals over there. It seems to be an escalating issue where the u. S. Has to play catchup. Any administration has dealt with these sort of ransomware attacks. They dealt with Companies Paying them off. Anything going on Behind The Scenes to get more control of this in russia, is it something that u. S. Officials feel at a basic level they just have to live with . Well, i think, you know, from the russian perspective, it is very important for them to build in this appearance of plausible deniability. Well, theyre not employed by the government. They dont work for the gru. They are just random guys as putin calls them artists who wake up in the morning and decide to paint and he has no control over them. This has been the case for many, many years including some of the hacks around 2016. From the american perspective, its like, yeah, we know youre an authoritarian police state. Youre telling us you dont know where these guys live. You cant threaten to arrest or to arrest them and extradite them. Thats b. S. What were seeing is the americans are ramping up potential you know, what biden said earlier this spring, that there will be measures seen and unseen. Today he said, look, there are people sitting in florida and maryland and virginia who could go after your Oil Pipelines and you probably wouldnt like that very much because the russian economy is kind of a one trick pony. Michael, just briefly, they did get into politics because you have press available with the president talking mcconnell. Take a look. Mitch mcconnell said that if republicans were to take back the senate in 202, he did not see a way that you could get a Supreme Court justice confirmed. Mitch has been nothing but no for a long time, and im sure he means exactly what he says. Not the biggest Counter Punch. What did you think of that . No. Hes right on both points. And, you know, i wouldnt expect joe biden to land a counter point, a Counter Punch there because he knows he needs pitch mcconnell on infrastructure and a host of other things. But it should be a wakeup for democrats to begin to do the Counter Punch downstream. In other words, the president is the president. The Democratic Party is the politics. And you have got they have got to create the space for the president to be able to use that as a weapon against his his adversary in the senate when that adversary is using politics to block his agenda. Hes not blocking biden on policy. Hes blocking him on politics. And, so, right now the president of the United States needs a political hammer. And only the Democratic Party can provide that. Not democratic legislators in the senate and the house, but the party, the political operators that do that kind of work. And thats why right now the republicans have the advantage. And biden, and you can tell in that that moment he was going, damn, i know. This is where i am. And mitch means what he says and there is not much i can do about it until i get a political hammer. Right. He said what he said. Michael and julia, thanks to both of you. We have a lot coming up in the program. New fallout on revelations about the trump org probe. When we might see charges. Also, my live interview on Michael Cohen on what he thinks it will take for this money man to flip on trump. On trump next day and twoday shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. Its a whole new world out there. Lets not keep it waiting. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] obsession has many names. This is ours. The lexus is. All in on the sport sedan. Lease the 2021 is 300 for 379 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Shingles . Oh. You mean bill. 379 a month for 36 months. Hes been a real pain. Again with the bill. What . It looks like a face. Hearing about it 24 7 is painful enough. I dont want to catch it. Well, you cant catch shingles, but the virus that causes it may already be inside you. Does that mean bill might have company . Stop. You know shingles can be prevented. Shingles can be whaaaaat . Yeah prevented. You can get vaccinated. Oh, so. I guess its just you, me and bill then. Im making my appointment. Bills all yours. 50 years or older . Get vaccinated for shingles today. Liberty mutual customizes Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. How much money can Liberty Mutual save you . One two three four five 72,807 72,808. Dollars. Yep. Everything hurts. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Visible is wireless that doesnt play games. Its powered by verizon for as little as 25 a month. But it gets crazier. Bring a friend every month and get every month for 5. Boom 12 months of 5 wireless. Visible, wireless that gets better with friends. The new york das probe into the Trump Organization. Its been going for years and he won the Supreme Court battle for trumps taxes and then impanelled a grand jury, then summoned a key witness. But now the new high is moving towards a potentially key indictment as soon as this summer, according to that major report in the New York Times that picks up on the big name in the case. Allen weisselberg, hes the chief Financial Officer of the Trump Organization. Allen weisselberg. Allen weisselberg. Allen weisselberg was everything to that organization. Always Allen Weisselberg on the check. I think all roads lead to Allen Weisselberg. The gate keeper for every penny that came in and went out. Whatever trump did and spent, whatever he told the government or didnt about all of that, weisselberg is involved. Hes the centerpiece of trumps financial operation. While the da wants to know what he knows about trump, this new reporting shows the heat on what weisselberg himself has been doing, whether he illegally hid valuable benefits or compensation ranging from Tuition Payments to evidence on the full story behind his mercedesbenz. And the grand jury is Hearing Evidence on him. And thats whats so concerning for donald trump here. We already had clues that weisselberg was key. You see it in the reports and the discussion. The New York Times, though, is now putting the talk of indictments in a headline because their sources say the grand jury is already getting the case against weisselberg. And you know the old saying about grand juries, that they can indict a ham sandwich. Well, if theyre hearing the case against weisselberg, The Next Step is to decide whether or not to charge him. Put enough heat on weisselberg with a credible outcome that either he or his family would go to prison and then that is supposed to make him flip on trump. And the same story notes what we have also been discussing and reporting, the signs that weisselberg has up to this point rebuffed cooperation requests. We also know this particular da, cy vance, his term ends in december. He got the taxes, appears he has a lot of evidence, several witnesses, a grand jury impanelled. And very soon he will have to take that altogether and it will be time to either move or move on. Now, i mentioned this report that has so many people in legal and trump circles paying attention. We are thrilled to be joined by one of the New York Times journalists who broke this story with his team. Thanks for being here. Of course. Thanks for having me, ari. You dont put indictments in a New York Times headline based on nothing. Obviously youre not here to discuss Confidential Sources and the like. But what gave you in your Reporting Process the confidence to say, not that this individual is under investigation or it could be bad, but rather, as you put it, he could face charges as soon as this summer. Well, it is exactly what you said, ari. A grand jury has been Hearing Evidence about mr. Weisselberg. We know the prosecutors in mr. Vances office have obtained a full picture of his financial situation. They have gotten his personal tax returns. What it looks like is they are finding out everything they can find out about mr. Weisselberg. So this stage they have reached, the evidence theyre hearing in the grand jury, just gives us that confidence to be able to report that. One thing that happens with especially a paper thats as widely read and studied as the New York Times is people debate what things mean online and the comments, et cetera. Now we get to just ask you. So when i read this line in the lead, setting up, quote, the possibility he could face charges this summer, does that mean the charges are more likely than not . I always think questions like that are interesting. We report what we know. So what we read in the lead is what is true. The Office Appears to have entered the final stages of the investigation. He could face charges as soon as this summer. At this point, there are times at which we know more than we have reported yet, and then we report. This is what we reported and this is what we know. Do you think the das office likes seeing a story like this out because it puts even more heat on weisselberg . There is no question that the das office is trying to put pressure on mr. Weisselberg. But they can kind of put that pressure on him themselves. They have the tools to do that. They dont need our help to do that. That is what they are doing. Theyre trying to put pressure on him right now. In reporting on this grand jury, are you finding it similar to others, even tougher given its high profile, or perhaps youre getting more clues because there are so many people and lawyers and witnesses around. Thats a good question. It is not one i really have the experience to speak to. I couldnt compare it. Each investigation is its own creature, is its own beast. This one is what it is. So it is hard to compare it. I hate to kind of dance out of that question, but it is not an easy comparison to make. You dont have a law degree, right, jonah . I dont have a law degree. You do, right . I happen to. But i was going to say your dancing and parsing, which is part of the duties of your job, it is at a lawyerly level. Take that for what its worth. Let me play a little bit of one of the witnesses that we have caught up here, Jennifer Weisselberg who we reported has other disagreements with Allen Weisselberg. Folks can factor that into the analysis. But shes making claims she could share in these interviews about the lengths he went to hide basic things like tax returns from basic things. Allen himself admitted to me that his taxes and pay stubs, he said, ill never show this. I dont know. He was the guarantor on my apartment, my lease when i was getting divorced. And he said, oh, no, i cant show my taxes. I cant show my pay stubs. I thought why not . Basically he was saying theyre illegal and im not releasing them. It was during the cohen sdny investigation. Pretty telling. What does your reporting show about the criminal legal exposure mr. Weisselberg could face in this office if they do determine evidence that he did not accurately account for or pay taxes on large benefits of compensation from trump org . That is something that we know that the prosecutors are looking at. Theyre looking at something called Fringe Benefits, which are a specific type of benefit. It could be karenals, apartment, tuition for a grandchild. Thats what we know the prosecutors are focussed on. There are situations in which mr. Weisselberg could be in a lot of trouble depending on what he did in taxes on those kinds of benefits. But in terms of how exposed he is, he will have to wait and see more and see what the case, if an indictment is actually brought. And finally, briefly, what do you find in your reporting is his best possible defense . I think this if the case were Fringe Benefits alone, that would be a highly unusual case. Its extremely rare to bring. So until we see the full case, what we know now makes it diffi