Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News 20240710

Rights. Its about who we are. Thats why were not going to tolerate attempts to destabilize our democratic elections and we would respond. I think there is a genuine prospect to significantly improve relations between our two countries. Do you believe you can trust it . This is not about trust. This is about selfinterest. The administrations in both parties historically have tried different postures. But nothing compares to the past four years as donald trump as president backing up putins propaganda while welcoming his election help in the u. S. Just about everyone in the u. S. Agrees today is quite different already under biden. That includes putin himself. President biden is an experienced statesman, and in this he is very different from president trump. Lets begin tomorrow with Michael Steele and julia jaffe. Julia, what do you think we should take as americans watching all this in their first faceoff . Well, i think what the Biden Administration wants us to take away from this is exactly the opposite of what the media is doing. I think the Biden Administration wants this to be a nonnewsworthy, more regular event where the american side talks to the russian side and there isnt all this hoopla and Media Circumstance and pomp and circumstance around it, that it is just like any meeting with any other country, that it is more predictable and focussed on tangible things, rather than press opportunities. But and i think the russians are pleased to be recognized as kind of equals, as partners, and to be talked to at all, frankly. Michael . Yeah. I think thats exactly right. I mean, putin was just glad to be in the room. This is not a question of, oh, you know, having the same kind of relationship where he would walk under that stage as much more of a dominant player over trump as we have seen, you know, when they have met before. Biden brought a whole different caliber of that to that relationship, you know, acknowledged by putin himself when he says hes a skilled diplomatic kind of guy, you know . And this is good for the country. It is good for our allies and it is good for the relationship between our two nations. Either you cannot repeat enough and make clear enough the outside of Nuclear Weapons, there is not much else there. All right . Youre talking about an economy that is, what, 1 2 trillion versus 21 trillion here in the u. S. There are a whole lot of differences that putin understands exists between our two nations. The lynch pin in that is Nuclear Weapons and the role that russia plays in places like the middle east and the impact that they can have certainly and have had and are having currently in eastern europe. So that sort of keeps them in the conversation. And, so, what biden did today and, you know, i think a lot of people agree was a reset over what we have had over the last four or five years. And now there is going to be some adjustment on the part of the russians in dealing with the United States. And, michael, the president obviously knew there was going to be a lot of attention on this even to the point julia makes, perhaps more than they wanted, given the mood theyre setting. He did have a little bit of a flash point here with a reporter. Take a look. Why are you so confident hell change his behavior, mr. President. Yeah. Im not confident he will change his behavior. What do you do all the time . You said in the next six months. What i said was, lets get it straight. I said what will change the behavior is if the rest of the world reacts to them and it diminishes their standing of the world. Im not confident of anything. Im just stating a fact. Michael, first of all, journalism 101, you always throw out the extra question. People say why bother . And then every so often you get the Subject Marching back. He wants a clear guide post of what they are and are not expecting. Yeah, politics 101, keep walking. Dont stop. Just when you end it, keep going. Let them throw your questions. You dont hear i hear nothing. Were walking. Thats what he should do. But having come back to answer the question, yeah, he got he got short, and he what he heard her say was a misinterpretation of what he had been saying. And, so, he wanted to clarify that. And, so, im not as exercised about that because compared to what we have seen president s the last president do and with the press and reporters, okay. And biden came out immediately and apologized. He said, yeah, i was short and i shouldnt have been. But it does speak to i think the kind of pressure that sort of exists around this relationship as its being reshaped by the Biden Administration between the u. S. And russia. And, so, he wants everyone to understand especially russia. He doesnt want the, you know, im confident that putin is going to change his behavior. He doesnt want that narrative out there because he recognizes who hes dealing with and he recognizes that thats not going to be the kind of position thats going to achieve the goals for the United States, particularly if putin takes that and goes, oh, so thats what you are trying to do and it changes the whole dynamic. So he wanted to be clear. Yeah. And, julia, on all that hacking and sort of digital Cyber Attacks here, some of which seem to be linked back to the putin government, obviously the Mueller Report documented that in that context, but recently there have been others that might be nonstate actors or criminals over there. It seems to be an escalating issue where the u. S. Has to play catchup. Any administration has dealt with these sort of ransomware attacks. They dealt with Companies Paying them off. Anything going on Behind The Scenes to get more control of this in russia, is it something that u. S. Officials feel at a basic level they just have to live with . Well, i think, you know, from the russian perspective, it is very important for them to build in this appearance of plausible deniability. Well, theyre not employed by the government. They dont work for the gru. They are just random guys as putin calls them artists who wake up in the morning and decide to paint and he has no control over them. This has been the case for many, many years including some of the hacks around 2016. From the american perspective, its like, yeah, we know youre an authoritarian police state. Youre telling us you dont know where these guys live. You cant threaten to arrest or to arrest them and extradite them. Thats b. S. What were seeing is the americans are ramping up potential you know, what biden said earlier this spring, that there will be measures seen and unseen. Today he said, look, there are people sitting in florida and maryland and virginia who could go after your Oil Pipelines and you probably wouldnt like that very much because the russian economy is kind of a one trick pony. Michael, just briefly, they did get into politics because you have press available with the president talking mcconnell. Take a look. Mitch mcconnell said that if republicans were to take back the senate in 202, he did not see a way that you could get a Supreme Court justice confirmed. Mitch has been nothing but no for a long time, and im sure he means exactly what he says. Not the biggest Counter Punch. What did you think of that . No. Hes right on both points. And, you know, i wouldnt expect joe biden to land a counter point, a Counter Punch there because he knows he needs pitch mcconnell on infrastructure and a host of other things. But it should be a wakeup for democrats to begin to do the Counter Punch downstream. In other words, the president is the president. The Democratic Party is the politics. And you have got they have got to create the space for the president to be able to use that as a weapon against his his adversary in the senate when that adversary is using politics to block his agenda. Hes not blocking biden on policy. Hes blocking him on politics. And, so, right now the president of the United States needs a political hammer. And only the Democratic Party can provide that. Not democratic legislators in the senate and the house, but the party, the political operators that do that kind of work. And thats why right now the republicans have the advantage. And biden, and you can tell in that that moment he was going, damn, i know. This is where i am. And mitch means what he says and there is not much i can do about it until i get a political hammer. Right. He said what he said. Michael and julia, thanks to both of you. We have a lot coming up in the program. New fallout on revelations about the trump org probe. When we might see charges. Also, my live interview on Michael Cohen on what he thinks it will take for this money man to flip on trump. On trump next day and twoday shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. Its a whole new world out there. Lets not keep it waiting. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] obsession has many names. This is ours. The lexus is. All in on the sport sedan. Lease the 2021 is 300 for 379 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Shingles . Oh. You mean bill. 379 a month for 36 months. Hes been a real pain. Again with the bill. What . It looks like a face. Hearing about it 24 7 is painful enough. I dont want to catch it. Well, you cant catch shingles, but the virus that causes it may already be inside you. Does that mean bill might have company . Stop. You know shingles can be prevented. Shingles can be whaaaaat . Yeah prevented. You can get vaccinated. Oh, so. I guess its just you, me and bill then. Im making my appointment. Bills all yours. 50 years or older . Get vaccinated for shingles today. Liberty mutual customizes Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. How much money can Liberty Mutual save you . One two three four five 72,807 72,808. Dollars. Yep. Everything hurts. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Visible is wireless that doesnt play games. Its powered by verizon for as little as 25 a month. But it gets crazier. Bring a friend every month and get every month for 5. Boom 12 months of 5 wireless. Visible, wireless that gets better with friends. The new york das probe into the Trump Organization. Its been going for years and he won the Supreme Court battle for trumps taxes and then impanelled a grand jury, then summoned a key witness. But now the new high is moving towards a potentially key indictment as soon as this summer, according to that major report in the New York Times that picks up on the big name in the case. Allen weisselberg, hes the chief Financial Officer of the Trump Organization. Allen weisselberg. Allen weisselberg. Allen weisselberg was everything to that organization. Always Allen Weisselberg on the check. I think all roads lead to Allen Weisselberg. The gate keeper for every penny that came in and went out. Whatever trump did and spent, whatever he told the government or didnt about all of that, weisselberg is involved. Hes the centerpiece of trumps financial operation. While the da wants to know what he knows about trump, this new reporting shows the heat on what weisselberg himself has been doing, whether he illegally hid valuable benefits or compensation ranging from Tuition Payments to evidence on the full story behind his mercedesbenz. And the grand jury is Hearing Evidence on him. And thats whats so concerning for donald trump here. We already had clues that weisselberg was key. You see it in the reports and the discussion. The New York Times, though, is now putting the talk of indictments in a headline because their sources say the grand jury is already getting the case against weisselberg. And you know the old saying about grand juries, that they can indict a ham sandwich. Well, if theyre hearing the case against weisselberg, The Next Step is to decide whether or not to charge him. Put enough heat on weisselberg with a credible outcome that either he or his family would go to prison and then that is supposed to make him flip on trump. And the same story notes what we have also been discussing and reporting, the signs that weisselberg has up to this point rebuffed cooperation requests. We also know this particular da, cy vance, his term ends in december. He got the taxes, appears he has a lot of evidence, several witnesses, a grand jury impanelled. And very soon he will have to take that altogether and it will be time to either move or move on. Now, i mentioned this report that has so many people in legal and trump circles paying attention. We are thrilled to be joined by one of the New York Times journalists who broke this story with his team. Thanks for being here. Of course. Thanks for having me, ari. You dont put indictments in a New York Times headline based on nothing. Obviously youre not here to discuss Confidential Sources and the like. But what gave you in your Reporting Process the confidence to say, not that this individual is under investigation or it could be bad, but rather, as you put it, he could face charges as soon as this summer. Well, it is exactly what you said, ari. A grand jury has been Hearing Evidence about mr. Weisselberg. We know the prosecutors in mr. Vances office have obtained a full picture of his financial situation. They have gotten his personal tax returns. What it looks like is they are finding out everything they can find out about mr. Weisselberg. So this stage they have reached, the evidence theyre hearing in the grand jury, just gives us that confidence to be able to report that. One thing that happens with especially a paper thats as widely read and studied as the New York Times is people debate what things mean online and the comments, et cetera. Now we get to just ask you. So when i read this line in the lead, setting up, quote, the possibility he could face charges this summer, does that mean the charges are more likely than not . I always think questions like that are interesting. We report what we know. So what we read in the lead is what is true. The Office Appears to have entered the final stages of the investigation. He could face charges as soon as this summer. At this point, there are times at which we know more than we have reported yet, and then we report. This is what we reported and this is what we know. Do you think the das office likes seeing a story like this out because it puts even more heat on weisselberg . There is no question that the das office is trying to put pressure on mr. Weisselberg. But they can kind of put that pressure on him themselves. They have the tools to do that. They dont need our help to do that. That is what they are doing. Theyre trying to put pressure on him right now. In reporting on this grand jury, are you finding it similar to others, even tougher given its high profile, or perhaps youre getting more clues because there are so many people and lawyers and witnesses around. Thats a good question. It is not one i really have the experience to speak to. I couldnt compare it. Each investigation is its own creature, is its own beast. This one is what it is. So it is hard to compare it. I hate to kind of dance out of that question, but it is not an easy comparison to make. You dont have a law degree, right, jonah . I dont have a law degree. You do, right . I happen to. But i was going to say your dancing and parsing, which is part of the duties of your job, it is at a lawyerly level. Take that for what its worth. Let me play a little bit of one of the witnesses that we have caught up here, Jennifer Weisselberg who we reported has other disagreements with Allen Weisselberg. Folks can factor that into the analysis. But shes making claims she could share in these interviews about the lengths he went to hide basic things like tax returns from basic things. Allen himself admitted to me that his taxes and pay stubs, he said, ill never show this. I dont know. He was the guarantor on my apartment, my lease when i was getting divorced. And he said, oh, no, i cant show my taxes. I cant show my pay stubs. I thought why not . Basically he was saying theyre illegal and im not releasing them. It was during the cohen sdny investigation. Pretty telling. What does your reporting show about the criminal legal exposure mr. Weisselberg could face in this office if they do determine evidence that he did not accurately account for or pay taxes on large benefits of compensation from trump org . That is something that we know that the prosecutors are looking at. Theyre looking at something called Fringe Benefits, which are a specific type of benefit. It could be karenals, apartment, tuition for a grandchild. Thats what we know the prosecutors are focussed on. There are situations in which mr. Weisselberg could be in a lot of trouble depending on what he did in taxes on those kinds of benefits. But in terms of how exposed he is, he will have to wait and see more and see what the case, if an indictment is actually brought. And finally, briefly, what do you find in your reporting is his best possible defense . I think this if the case were Fringe Benefits alone, that would be a highly unusual case. Its extremely rare to bring. So until we see the full case, what we know now makes it difficult to anticipate what he might use to defend himself. But what we know now is not the full case. So, again, it is hard to predict how exactly his lawyers will work on his behalf given that were only partially seeing whats really going on. Yeah. Well, you have a big story there with your colleagues. Thank you for telling us a little bit more about it on the beat. We have our shortest break, 60 seconds. Michael cohen figures into that story and this investigation speaks out for the first time. Thats next. Ext. That rewards dan where his spending is trending. Just ask stepping outside his comfort zone dan. Dan okay, i dont know where the hole for this is. Or fourth Time Streaming that period drama dan. Dan you just made me miss her best line, dan so now im going to have to start it again. Even insisted he didnt need directions dan. Dan okay, im not lost. Im exploring. Dan that said, do you know where i am . From select gas, streaming, travel and more earn 5 cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to 500 spent each billing cycle. We need to reduce Plastic Waste in the environment. Thats why at americas beverage companies, our bottles are made to be remade. Not all plastic is the same. Were carefully designing our bottles to be one hundred percent recyclable, including the caps. Theyre collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. That completes the circle, and reduces Plastic Waste. Please help us get every bottle back. Joining me now for reaction to this big trump cfo Weisselberg News is Michael Cohen himself, Donald Trumps lawyer, author of the book disloyal. Thanks for coming back, michael. How are you doing, ari . Im well. Thank you. This article, which dropped like a bombshell in this hour last night, actually, from the New York Times. I just heard from the reporter. It ends, the final line of the article refers to mr. Weisselberg being involved in a different federal investigation regarding trump hush money and it ends that mr. Cohen is now cooperating with mr. Vances investigation. Where the article ended, sir, is where we begin tonight. Why do you think they at the times and the piece there, what are they getting at . Tell us your reaction to all of this . First of all, i had been cooperating since day number one. I cooperated with the Southern District of new york despite they didnt believe that i didnt give them everything, which is just not through. I cooperated with the new york das office. I cooperated with five different congressional offices. So i cooperated. Thank you, New York Times, for acknowledging that. But one of the things that i took away from this is Allen Weisselberg really knows that hes got the heat coming right now, especially when you have somebody who is as seasoned a lawyer as mark pomeranz. Allen weisselberg, i want to be clear now, is not the primary target in this investigation. And like what happened to me, he will unfortunately or fortunately, depending upon which way you see it, he will become collateral damage. But it is not just Allen Weisselberg thats going to be collateral damage. It is going to be his two sons as well. Barry who worked for the company dealing with the carousel and jack weisselberg, who was involved with latter capital with the two loans that were given to the Trump Organization. So allen has a choice. The choice is do you want to spend the golden years of your life behind bars while remaining loyal to donald trump, knowing that trump would absolutely 100 not be loyal to him, or are you going to allow yourself and your sons to go to Prison Versus Pass along the information and try to get yourself some sort of leniency . The question look, i believe that all the people who are watching your show right now, put into that situation, whether you and your children go to prison or you provide information, knowing that that Documentary Evidence is already in the hands of the District Attorney and the attorney general, youre not going to escape it. So whats the smart move . Yeah. Well, the selfpreservation move, smart or not, the essential move for a lot of people is how they would look at it. As for the last line in the article, michael, they seem to be intimating that he dropped the dime on you, and now it might be your turn. Well, he definitely dropped the dime. More than a dime. He probably dropped a couple of dimes on me in order to 30, 40 cents easy. At least. Right . In order to get that limited immunity that he got. Knowing that Allen Weisselberg was involved in the entire setup for the Hush Money Payments to stormy daniels. You know, the records exist. The conversations exist between myself, trump. I mean, those were released by recording. On top of that they have, again, Documentary Evidence. You know, the problem with everybody in the Trump Organization is that they all lie. And they will continue, as i did, including with congress. We all lied in order to protect donald. The problem, though, is that there are documents that show opposite, that i wasnt the only one that lied in the creation of that document. It was ivanka and jared and the lawyers. All of them were involved in the setting up of that of that information to congress. So, yes, im the one that suffered the consequences. And my belief is that allen is going to suffer the same consequences. Youre referring there to both the Hush Money Payments where you are saying, yes, he was involved. We have reporting on that. And then you are referring to misleading congress. And you are saying that laundry list of names you just mentioned where people were in on that presentation. Is that what you are saying . Yes. Again, the point i was trying to make is that everybody lies for donald. And its okay to lie. Yeah. So long as there is no Documentary Evidence in order to back up the opposite. And my point to you and to your listeners and to your viewers is that that information is already in the hands of those people that are seeking the cooperation of Allen Weisselberg. But, you know, ari, i always Say Something that is a little bit different than everybody else. I believe allen has already cooperated and is actively cooperating with the District Attorneys office. I truly believe it because at the end of the day what evidence do you have for that . Nothing. Just a personal belief. Considering allen does not want the same thing that happened to me to happen to him and to his children. Again, allen is dissecting it and looking at it from a realistic perspective. When you look at this New York Times story, were you one of the witness sources for it . Well, you know, i really dont want to talk about, you know, what role i played so far in terms of the District Attorneys investigation or some of the things that they have asked me. And just to go back one step when i said that i believe hes already cooperating, we also have to look at the facts thats already out there. They brought in jeff mcconney, the assistant controller, a man that worked solely for Allen Weisselberg for 30 some odd years. Doesnt want to go to prison either. Do you think he would corroborate evidence they had on Allen Weisselberg and now they are presenting it to allen saying, listen, you are not going to win this. Let me be very clear. You are not. Not only do we have you. We have issues with how you received compensation, your son, your other son regarding loans made to the Trump Organization. You are really in a as Allen Weisselberg, his favorite word, you have a conundrum. He would say conundrum a lot. This is a conundrum and then some. I think you are referring to the Witness Problem that mr. Weisselberg would appear to have is that everyone around him, his peers and subordinates, including the gentleman you mentioned, if theyre cooperating or providing information, according to the evidence, that would be bad for weisselberg. Then you have donald trump who is not known to swoop in and do a swing to help him who have embattled legal plans even on his behalf. I say that knowing that obvious present lived experience, which i think our viewers know about you, michael. I asked that about the times story. I understand you are right. Its my job to ask the questions. Do you see anything in this story that struck you as off base or different from your experience . Or did the story strike you as accurate . Because if the story is accurate in the main, it would suggest that the das office has moved past the Point Of No Return in presenting the case on weisselberg. Theyre getting to the ham sandwich phase. But theyre past that Point Of No Return. Im curious again in youre close to it if you found it broadly accurate. I thought it was phenomenal reporting by the New York Times. There was nothing in there that i found to be inaccurate. It was a well written, it was a well sourced piece, and, yes, i have said it on your show as well. I believe indictments start flying even, you know, within the next 30 i called it. I said before summer. And i do believe still that you are going to see some of the low hanging fruit indictments because, look, at the end of the day, this is not just about Allen Weisselberg and his kids. This is not just about ultimately getting to donald trump himself. There is don jr. There is ivanka. There is jared. There is eric. Theres, you know, there is rudy. There is a whole group of people that are being looked at. This is not just, hey, lets figure out how to flip Allen Weisselberg because Allen Weisselberg is the key. Allen weisselberg is a key, but he is not the sole key. And thats why i believe that he is going to provide whatever information that the das office wants because if he doesnt and doesnt capture the immunity, somebody else will give it. Its just that simple. Yeah. Michael cohen, i think plenty of people were curious about your take and reaction given your centrality here. Thank you for coming on the beat, sir. Always good to see you, ari. Thank you. When we come back, we have our analysis and reporting on what makes someone flip and why it matters here. And the prosecutor that masterminded the art of flipping suspects, Andrew Weissmann, coming up. Coming up. Of relief. And the sound of a company watching out for you. This is the sound of low cash mode from pnc bank, giving you multiple options and at least 24 hours to help you avoid an overdraft fee. Because we believe how you handle overdrafts should be in your control, not just your banks. 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Now, if you happen to be watching this program last night, you were probably there with us when the big story on trumps money man, weisselberg, crossed the wire. We have gone through some of the reporting in context tonight. But what everyone really wants to know, what Michael Cohen was just speculating about, is Will Weisselberg ever flip on trump . Because the das case is built clearly on a plan to seek his cooperation and get it. But this is not some random witness. You dont get to be the Trump Org Cfo for this many years without demonstrating a certain amount of loyalty. Trump prizes it. Weisselberg has been with the trump family for the bulk of his career, trumps eyes and ears, according to Confidential Sources, while he is busy being trump. And weisselberg is no amarosa. He avoided most of trumps Media Appearances and flashy sizzle say for a single appearance we saw over 15 years ago. Replacing george this week is my chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg. And you think george is tough . Wait until you see allen. Allen . I felt that andy losing his communication was a serious matter. If this was a military maneuver, he could lose an entire baaal on. Yeah. Well, it wasnt a military maneuver. It was a reality show. But the point stands that donald trump didnt just rely on weisselberg Behind The Scenes or just for writing checks. He actually made him the only nonfamily member to help don jr. And eric run the entire company during trumps oneterm presidency. Before that, for key financial decisions, they were using only two people in the room, trump and weisselberg. Thats why the da wants so much from him. So those are two key things we know about him. That he knows it all. And that often, at key moments, it was just him and trump alone. We also know that he has kind of an idealization of donald trump, which probably, knowing trumps narcissism, strengthens their bond. Allen weisselberg is defined by what donald thinks about him. Weisselberg is one of the solo sycophants. Allen would not take an hour or day off if donald was in the office. Doesnt breathe or inhale or exhale without trumps permission or knowledge. His office is right next door. He discusses everything with him. So as we keep an eye on the smart call of selfpreservation, there is also emotion here. Emotion can be the opposite of reason. There is an emotional bond of something going on between weisselberg and trump. We do know that weisselberg has cooperated with authorities before and he dug an exchange for immunity when it was just him, trump and cohen setting up the payments. And ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up. So im all over that. And i spoke to allen about it. Yeah. He spoke to allen. Thats true. But when the heat came, when someone was going to go down, allen spoke to the feds. He, from what we know, threw Michael Cohen under the bus, which is way i mentioned the article how awkward it is when we have certain news subjects on. This is the story. He got that immunity for testimony on michael d. Cohen. You are supposed to tell prosecutors everything. But did weisselberg find a way . Three men arranged a now convicted crime for the benefit of one of they can, donald trump. And one of those men did the time. Had one of them, Allen Weisselberg, wiggled away . So is this time any different . Last time weisselberg was throwing a peer under the bus. This time his only move would appear to be up, as the da probes his own personal tax returns, bank records, gifts, the mercedes. Unlike in the cohen case, either trump or weisselberg now have legal exposure, maybe both. So it is not clear there is anyone else that could take the fall for them based on at least what we know right now. Weisselbergs former daughterinlaw who we quoted here and interviewed because shes one of the people the da is talking to, she thinks ultimately he will fold. There are a lot of differences. When donald says numbers are certain things and allen says numbers are certain things, theyre not adding up. I dont Think Weisselberg will let his children go to jail. The reason i believe he will flip, yes, his behavior since 2017, what i have witnessed is when he took overs a trustee, he was not only nervous, but he started immediately hiding money in escrow confidentially. As i have emphasized with you because we try to be transparent in our Reporting Process here, these are not pundits you are hearing them. These are not random analysts. These are not observers. These are people who were involved. Witnesses, family members, coconspirators if you want to put it that way because mr. Cohen did do time for the deal he did with weisselberg. Many of these people think he will split. Cohen speculated tonight that he thinks maybe the flipping has already begun. This is the biggest thing to hit donald trump ever. For anyone that says, we have heard this story before, well, you dont know how any story ends until its over. Now, how does it work when prosecutors actually flip someone in a criminal probe . What else does her reck garland need to do at the Justice Department to sweep out some of the problems of the biden area . We have mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann next. Ew weissm. Sometimes you wanna go where Everybody Knows your name and theyre always glad you came welcome back, america. It sure is good to see you. Shingles . Camera man yeah, 1 out of 3 people get shingles in their lifetime. Well that leaves 2 out of 3 people who dont. I dont know anybody whos had it. Your uncle had shingles. You mean that nasty red rash . And donna next door had it for weeks. Yeah, but theres nothing you can do about it. Camera man actually, shingles can be prevented. 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But thats not all youll find here. There are hundreds of goodpaying jobs, with most new workers hired from bayviewhunters point. We dont just work at recology, we own it, creating opportunity and a better planet. Now, thats making a difference. Im joined now by Andrew Weissmann. He headed the Fraud Section at doj. Thanks for being here. Nice to be here. Let me read from what the prosecutors are looking at. It would be, quote, unreasonable to bring a case on a failure to pay taxes and Fringe Benefits alone. The lawyers can think of no other recent example. I was discussing that with the times journalist tonight. Your view of the outlines of the case described there. Well, we dont know what theyre investigating exactly. The biggest thing that we do know is fringe benefit. But i would suspect if i were trying to make a case on weisselberg to get him to flip, i would borrow a page to what we did when we were charging rick gates. That is Paul Manaforts number two. And what we did is we pointed out that there was individual liability that rick gates had with respect to his own tax returns. But he also aided, abetted and conspired in Paul Manaforts crimes. So in many ways, he was facing lots of what Paul Manafort was facing, but he also faced his own individual liability. We did our homework, and we were very open with his counsel about the evidence. And i think that is going to be the same path thats going to be taken here, which is this is what youre facing and lay out all your proof. And then also make sure they know that you mean business, that you are not afraid of pulling the trigger and bringing those charges. And walk us through what you mean about the other potential liability. Speaking about thing that weisselberg may have done for the corporate benefit of Trump Organization, not, he would argue, for his personal benefit but you are saying he could still be in a lot of trouble for that . Exactly. So if the Trump Organization was cheating on its own taxes, if donald trump was cheating on his personal taxes, it is hard to imagine that Allen Weisselberg wouldnt have participated in some way. So you want to basically make sure that you are looking at all of that proof. As Michael Cohen said, and, as you know, i rarely agree with him but i think he is right here, having the comptroller as somebody who appears to be cooperating is really significant. If i were the cfo, weisselberg, and i knew the comptroller was cooperating and that the manhattan District Attorneys office has all of the documentation, assuming there is some crime there, theyre going to have it because they now have a witness and they have the documentation. Yeah. You say you rarely agree with cohen. I mean i would go further, andrew. You were part of the mueller team that farmed the case off to new york that sent him to prison. Yeah. Well, we partially farmed off the case. If you remember, we actually kept the part that was connected to the Mueller Investigation and the part that was unrelated was sent to the Southern District, and he was prosecuted for both. So that was an example of somebody who, you know, there was a strong case being made in two separate offices. Thats the way to get somebody to flip, and it worked, at least in part with respect to Michael Cohen. All very interesting. It reminds everyone that you served at the doj. I mentioned in more than one role and, of course, the special counsels office is part of the Justice Department but you were positioned quite independently and quite adversarially to what was going on in the Trump Organization. Having read the Mueller Report more than once, it is voluminous details about efforts to really undercut the way the doj is supposed to work. Whether it is impeachable is a congressional judgment. I bring it up because in late Breaking News the whole thing of the trump doj going after someone donald trump didnt like, whether he worked for them or not, common story line. It was a criminal probe and a civil lawsuit together against john bolton. Do you see that as part of Merrick Garland continuing to have to clean house and really look under the hood of each thing that was done previously and decide whether it has merit or not . Yeah. I think that Merrick Garland has their work cut out for them. Here is one where we really knew the story in advance because, if you recall, something that got very little attention was something that i thought was quite explosive which was a very respected lawyer in d. C. Represented the woman in the white house who was in charge of the classification review, and she submitted an affidavit to the court many months ago laying out what was, frankly, quite salacious where she said we did all of our work, we were quite rigorous, and i cleared the Bolton Book For Publication and then the white house political people got involved and essentially pulled that all back. It is really hard to see how this Justice Department reading that objectively would think that it is appropriate to go forward with a criminal or civil case because it really wreaks of political interference in the Classification Process or in this case deClassification Process, and thats an area where there should be no politics obviously at all. Yeah, appreciate your clarity there, andrew. It is important and it goes to a long list where you have some people thought it was an actual criminal probe, you have some that it was other measures taking and then the seizing of records we have been covering, but all of it together is enemies of the president and a lot coming out of the doj. Indebted for your expertise as always. Thank you. Appreciate it. Coming up, there is history being made tonight. It has to do with the reckoning on race and this one might even transcend politics. Even transcend politics with ecommerce that runs at the speed of now. Next day and twoday shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. Its a whole new world out there. Lets not keep it waiting. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] the lexus es. Every curve, every innovation, every feeling. A product of mastery. Get 0. 9 Apr Financing on the 2021 es 350. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Oh are you using Liberty Mutuals get 0. 9 Apr Financing on the 2021 es 350. 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Its a tasty way to conquer your day. Try centrum multi gummies. Now with a new look. Kevin bacon here. You know me from six degrees of well. Me. But its time to expand. See, visible is wireless with no surprise fees, legit unlimited data, powered by verizon for as little as 25 a month. But when you bring a friend every month, you get every month for 5. So im bringing everyone within 12 degrees of me. Bam, 12 months of 5 wireless. Visible. As little as 25 a month. Or 5 a month when you bring a friend. Powered by verizon. Wireless that gets better with friends. Turning tonight to live pictures here on the house floor where lawmakers are voting on whether to make juneteenth, finally, a federal holiday. Now, this bill is expected to pass. It is a rare bipartisan bill thats actually moved quickly through this congress. There was a unanimous vote in the senate yesterday. A holiday celebrated on june 19th, it commemorates the day in 1865 when a Union General told slaves in galveston, texas, they were free. The civil war was over. Congresswoman Sheila Jacksonlee spoke about the Bill Standing on the floor, standing next to images showing the tragedy of slavery. Juneteenth is as significant to africanamericans as it will be to americans because we too are americans, and it means freedom. And the votes here show there is bipartisanship, at least on the symbolism of holiday, but it is against the backdrop of something we have been covering. Many republican lawmakers at the state and federal level trying to limit a whole range of things from voting to how much teachers can tell students about Racial Injustice or the legacy factually of slavery in america. It is an update we wanted to give you. Before we go tonight i will remind you as always, you can find me online arimelber on social media. Coming up, an update on a future show about your response to what we heard from Ben And Jerry when i had them on to discuss police reform. Thanks for watching the beat. The reidout is up next. Hi, joy. First of all, i love Ben And Jerry. I love the whole pass the juneteenth holiday, ban teaching why theres a juneteenth. It is art. It is irony. Anyway, have a great it is irony. Thank you for that because it is the contrast that needs to be seen even if the holiday is, as we covered, a measure of something. Yeah, maybe it is good to see you. They probably figure it is during the summer so they dont have to explain it in class, so it is fine. Schools out. Anyway, bye, ari. Have good evening. Good evening, everyone. Welcome. We begin the reidout tonight with a handshake in geneva. A historic facetoface meeting