Twitter spat between a supermodel and the israeli government. It might sound petty, but Social Media is now a weapon of war. The lines have been drawn, hearts and minds are the prize. To chat about this and a whole lot of other stuff, i have a lovely bunch of people with me. The visiting Assistant Professor of Israel Studies at Northwestern University in the usa. Professor of communications at the university of haifa. Right of The Middle East i. A journalist and a Social Media expert. And also with us today, the Editorial Director of the magazine aimed at kids, there is no swiping required. We will talk to you a bit later. I want to know briefly, i know your Subscription Numbers have gone up significantly. You are one of the fastest growing magazines in the uk right now. Is that correct . Yeah, that is absolutely right. We gained 36 more subscribers last year and we hit 100,000 subscribers to the magazine, going from strength to the magazine, going from strength to strength at the moment. What to the magazine, going from strength to strength at the moment. To strength at the moment. What is On The Cover to strength at the moment. What is On The Cover this to strength at the moment. What is On The Cover this week . To strength at the moment. What is On The Cover this week . This to strength at the moment. What is On The Cover this week . This week, | On The Cover this week . This week, we have news On The Cover this week . This week, we have news of On The Cover this week . This week, we have news of the On The Cover this week . This week, we have news of the big On The Cover this week . This week, we have news of the Big Beach we have news of the Big Beach Clean Up. This is a huge initiative to Clean Up1 Clean Up. This is a huge initiative to Clean Up 1 Million Clean Up. This is a huge initiative to Clean Up1 Million miles Clean Up. This is a huge initiative to Clean Up 1 Million miles worth of beach across the uk. fix, to Clean Up1 Million miles worth of beach across the uk. Beach across the uk. A bit of good news, beach across the uk. A bit of good news. Very beach across the uk. A bit of good news. Very good beach across the uk. A bit of good news, very good. I beach across the uk. A bit of good news, very good. I want beach across the uk. A bit of good news, very good. I want to beach across the uk. A bit of good news, very good. I want to come L Beach across the uk. A bit of good | news, very good. I want to come to you briefly to talk about one of the massive stories this week, which is about the merger of Warner Media and discovery, kind of getting married really. What does this mean, give us a sense of the scale what does it mean to us as listeners and viewers . I think it can be an awful lot because i think it can be an awful lot because they have the battle for online because they have the battle for online Streaming Video which is dominated by the likes of netflix, amazon, dominated by the likes of netflix, amazon, Disney obviously coming around amazon, Disney obviously coming around the amazon, Disney obviously coming around the corner with 100 Million subscribers around the corner with 100 Million subscribers worldwide. Then you have at T Warner media, which is Hbo And Discovery at T Warner media, which is Hbo And Discovery which channels like quest in the discovery which channels like quest in the Uk Discovery which channels like quest in the uk. They are very much on the back end. In the uk. They are very much on the back end, combined, they could have 60 Million back end, combined, they could have 60 Million subscribers. I think it is a way 60 Million subscribers. I think it is a way to 60 Million subscribers. I think it is a way to fight with the big boys. Yes. Is a way to fight with the big boys. Yes, absolutely. Lets go back to the question at the top of the Programme Today Israel and the palestinians, that has been dominating headlines for more than a week now. This long running local conflict is now playing out in real time on a global stage, drawing in billions of Social Media users for a battle about who gets to decide the narrative. Of course, the rungs on the rights of all of that. Facet of communication at the university of haifa, tell us what You Are seeing Playing Out In Front of you on Social Media right now. The Playing Out In Front of you on Social Media right now. The use of Social Media right now. The use of Social Media Social Media right now. The use of Social Media during Social Media right now. The use of Social Media during conflicts, Social Media during conflicts, terrorism, water, we have seen a lot of those in previous conflicts. Not just in The Middle East, all over the world. What troubles me right now, and i must say that i am looking at the middle East Conflict right now is a Case Study in a long range of abusive Social Media. And what worries me is the way that Social Media abuse, regardless of whether You Are palestinian or israeli, western, eastern, northern, southern, we should be worried about the way that Social Media is used as weapons instead of instruments of peace, understanding. Being abused and manipulated. And more troubling, if i may conclude my opening statement, is that we are not talking any more about those big giants like twitter, instagram, youtube, but the new players in the field like tiktok exposing many young children who are very gullible, innocent, manipulated by those messages. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the use of Social Media and especially those new platforms like tiktok, should be troubling us. Platforms like tiktok, should be troubling us platforms like tiktok, should be troublin us. ,. ,. , troubling us. Give me an example, Ou Seak troubling us. Give me an example, you speak about troubling us. Give me an example, you speak about an troubling us. Give me an example, you speak about an abuse troubling us. Give me an example, you speak about an abuse of troubling us. Give me an example, | you speak about an abuse of power troubling us. Give me an example, i you speak about an abuse of power or an abuse of a platform. Give me example of where you see that happening. I example of where you see that happening example of where you see that haueninu. ,. ,. Example of where you see that ha enin,. ,. ,. Happening. I saw one video which was somethin i happening. I saw one video which was something i would happening. I saw one video which was something i would like happening. I saw one video which was something i would like to happening. I saw one video which was something i would like to see, happening. I saw one video which was something i would like to see, it happening. I saw one video which was something i would like to see, it is i something i would like to see, it is adding more fuel to the fire, excuse the pun. When there was a Burning Tree in the al aqsa mosque, and the angle of the video was showing Israelis Dancing at the burning mosque. Israelis were dancing because they were in jerusalem, mosque. Israelis were dancing because they were injerusalem, it is not a mosque with a tree. But the message, the narrative was israelis are dancing because the mosque is burning. This is the way the video was presented, especially to audiences that are not quite aware of, lets say, fake news and manipulated videos. And instead of showing the suffering and the agony involved in conflicts like that, you just Add Fuel to the fire. I involved in conflicts like that, you just Add Fuel to the fire. Just Add Fuel to the fire. I know ou have just Add Fuel to the fire. I know you have been just Add Fuel to the fire. I know you have been writing just Add Fuel to the fire. I know you have been writing about i just Add Fuel to the fire. I know. You have been writing about this this week, Social Media use in particular. What is your take on what we are seeing playing out at the moment . I what we are seeing playing out at the moment . What we are seeing playing out at the moment . ,. , the moment . I have been writing over the moment . I have been writing over the ast the moment . I have been writing over the past two the moment . I have been writing over the past two weeks, the moment . I have been writing over the past two weeks, particularly i the past two weeks, particularly with regard to celebrities and the reaction with regard to celebrities and the reaction generally on Social Media from reaction generally on Social Media from high profile figures. We have seen from high profile figures. We have seen a from high profile figures. We have seen a huge number of singers, actors, seen a huge number of singers, actors, footballers, speaking out On Social actors, footballers, speaking out on Social Media, sending messages of soiidarity~ Social Media, sending messages of solidarity. The list a few Names Oscar winning Actress Miley davies, Singers Oscar winning Actress Miley davies, singers including the weekend, dewar libber, singers including the weekend, dewar lipper, zayn malik, mohamed salah, riyad lipper, zayn malik, mohamed salah, riyad mahrez, benjamin mendes. There have been riyad mahrez, benjamin mendes. There have been so many figures who have spoken have been so many figures who have spoken out have been so many figures who have spoken out on Social Media. To the point spoken out on Social Media. To the point where spoken out on Social Media. To the point where we could almost say that there has point where we could almost say that there has definitely been a growth in terms there has definitely been a growth in terms of the number of celebrities that have spoken out, in comparison celebrities that have spoken out, in comparison perhaps to other instances of an escalation of violence instances of an escalation of violence in israel and the occupied palestinian territories. And it is potentially linked to the black lives potentially linked to the black Lives Matter Movement having taken place last Lives Matter Movement having taken place last year. And we saw similar calls from place last year. And we saw similar calls from users on Social Media asking calls from users on Social Media asking celebrities, asking Social Media asking celebrities, asking Social Media influencers to use their very, very large Media Influencers to use their very, very large platforms to inform their followers very large platforms to inform their followers about what is happening and also followers about what is happening and also to share messages of soiidarity~ and also to share messages of solidarity. And we have seen so, so many~ solidarity. And we have seen so, so man. , solidarity. And we have seen so, so man. , ,. , solidarity. And we have seen so, so man. , many. There has been some pushback as well, many. There has been some pushback as well. Hasnt many. There has been some pushback as well, hasnt there . Many. There has been some pushback as well, hasnt there . There many. There has been some pushback as well, hasnt there . There has i as well, hasnt there . There has been this idea, and i will bring you in in a second, there has been this idea and i guess i would call it a stick to your own Lane Type of idea. You are celebrities, why do you need to be talking about this type of stuff . What is your take on that . Yes, there has been pushback, and i think yes, there has been pushback, and i think for yes, there has been pushback, and i think for many different reasons. In many think for many different reasons. In many different ways, and one of the most, many different ways, and one of the most, the many different ways, and one of the most, the biggest pushback which you mentioned most, the biggest pushback which you mentioned at the top of the show was the official mentioned at the top of the show was the official Israel Account, the official the official Israel Account, the official israeli Twitter Account singling official israeli Twitter Account singling out the palestinian Heritage Model who has been very, very vocal. Heritage model who has been very, very vocal, probably the most Vocal Celebrity very vocal, probably the most Vocal Celebrity that i have seen. I rdrill celebrity that i have seen. I will um in celebrity that i have seen. I will jump in because celebrity that i have seen. I will jump in because i celebrity that i have seen. I will jump in because i want celebrity that i have seen. I will jump in because i want to i celebrity that i have seen. In ii jump in because i want to come back to her against the state of israel in a second. I want your take more broadly on the idea of celebrities getting involved with this stuff. I think you tweeted recently, you said, here the thing about celebrity hot takes on israel palestine, i dont try to walk down runways in my lingerie, host a Comedy Programme or seller a sold out stadium, to highlight you dont try to replace years of historical language and cultural study on the ground for a tiktok . Tell us what you really think, why dont you . Why do you have a problem with this. Im dont you . Why do you have a problem with this. � ,. ,. , dont you . Why do you have a problem with this. � ,. ,. , with this. Im sorry, it was a bit chee. With this. Im sorry, it was a bit cheeky i with this. Im sorry, it was a bit cheeky. I think with this. Im sorry, it was a bit cheeky. I think celibacy with this. Im sorry, it was a bit| cheeky. I think celibacy culture, im a consumer of Pop Culture like Everybody Else the celebrity culture. And i see celebrities i follow on Social Media using a celebrity culture. And i see celebrities i follow on Social Media using a celebrities advocate the causes that i believe in and putting their celebrity to very good use. What what i am concerned about is that many young people are using Social Media as their sole source of information, and with Great Power comes great Responsibility for these and celebrities. I hope they will use the platform is not only to entertain or to a point but also to educate, because unfortunately many people in the world are not taking my University Course in the israeli Palace And Income figure reading 300 page books, they will be getting information from a graphic. That carries a great weight of Responsibility. Carries a great weight of Responsibility. Carries a great weight of resonsibili. � ,. ,. , Responsibility. Lets go back to Bella Hadid, Responsibility. Lets go back to Bella Hadid, can Responsibility. Lets go back to Bella Hadid, can you Responsibility. Lets go back to Bella Hadid, can you explain. Responsibility. Lets go back to l Bella Hadid, can you explain for people who dont necessarily know why Bella Hadid holds so much power. Why is this so important and why have we got to a stage where the israeli official the official israeli official the official israeli Twitter Account is taking on a supermodel . 50. Israeli Twitter Account is taking on a sopermodel . Israeli Twitter Account is taking on a supermodel . So, Bella Hadid as i mentioned as a supermodel . So, Bella Hadid as i mentioned as a a supermodel . So, Bella Hadid as i mentioned as a palestinian a supermodel . So, Bella Hadid as i i mentioned as a Palestinian American model mentioned as a Palestinian American model with mentioned as a Palestinian American model with Tens Of Millions of followers on instagram. She is the Sister Followers on instagram. She is the sister of followers on instagram. She is the sister of someone with similar Numbers Sister of someone with similar numbers of followers. They have both been very numbers of followers. They have both been very outspoken over the past two weeks been very outspoken over the past two weeks sharing instagram posts and instagram stories about the situation, and instagram stories about the situation, and it kind of culminated in the situation, and it kind of culminated in the case situation, and it kind of culminated in the case of Bella Hadid with her attending in the case of Bella Hadid with her attending a rally on a pro palestinian rally in brooklyn in New York pro palestinian rally in brooklyn in New York this weekend. So, what the official New York this weekend. So, what the official israeli Twitter Account pulled official israeli Twitter Account pulled her up on was that they accused pulled her up on was that they accused her of advocating the Jewish Peopie accused her of advocating the Jewish Peopie to accused her of advocating the jewish people to be thrown into The Sea, which people to be thrown into The Sea, which many people have taken issue with that which many people have taken issue with that analysis of what she did. What with that analysis of what she did. What she with that analysis of what she did. What she actually did was she participated in a chance which said from participated in a chance which said from the participated in a chance which said from the river to The Sea, palestine from the river to The Sea, palestine will be free. Which many palestinian palestine will be free. Which many palestinian activists and advocates say is palestinian activists and advocates say is a palestinian activists and advocates say is a Rallying Call for all palestinians that live within israel and within palestinians that live within israel and within the occupied territories to kind and within the occupied territories to kind of and within the occupied territories to kind of call for their liberation and their to kind of call for their liberation and their freedom. So it is very, very and their freedom. So it is very, very interesting to see official social very interesting to see official Social Media accounts entering themselves into the online conversation. And that has not been the only conversation. And that has not been the only example, actually the son of the the only example, actually the son of the prime minister benjamin netanyahu, he tweeted last week that it is very netanyahu, he tweeted last week that it is very difficult to compete with palestinian celebrities such as Bella Palestinian Celebrities such as bella Hadid And Gigi hadid the only israeii bella Hadid And Gigi hadid the only israeli celebrity that could potentially compete is the one Woman Actress potentially compete is the one Woman Actress gail potentially compete is the one Woman Actress gail gadot. He kind of lamented the fact that she remained like switzerland indicating that she was neutral and he was not very happy was neutral and he was not very happy with was neutral and he was not very happy with her input. So the fact that the happy with her input. So the fact that the prime Ministers Son is talking that the prime Ministers Son is talking about the strength of pro palestinian celebrities shows that the pro palestinian celebrities shows that the but is very important. You raise an that the but is very important. Gm. Raise an important point because Bella Hadid has 42 Million followers online, that is a bigger audience than many news outlets. Why do you think, many people will be listening to this thinking, why does the israeli state official Twitter Account have to get into a Ding Dong with a supermodel . Can you come back on the point specifically about what was being chanted and why it was important for the israelis to engage with this . Engage with this . First of all, i Saw Statistic engage with this . First of all, i Saw Statistic myself engage with this . First of all, i Saw Statistic myself which i i engage with this . First of all, i i Saw Statistic myself which i think that Bella Hadid has 42 Million followers or 7 Million dues living in the state of israel, and 15 Million dues worldwide. Jews. Her Instagram Account absolutely, by multiple, exceeds the actual population that she may be addressing all that she may be commenting on. So i think her following his absolutely stupendous, and i think that is why it attracts the attention of the state of israel and the official account. But i think The State Of Israel In General has not really succeeded in the form of Public Diplomacy or what is often called a kind of propaganda, israeli propaganda. And they would like to have those kinds of successes, they have those kinds of successes, they have been trying to cultivate their sonorities of their own. But they just dont have the ability to attract the number of followers and frankly to have the kind of Pop Culture resonance come from a small country which does not have all that many prominent celebrities in order to do so. So i think it is a little Bit Ofjealousy on the part of the official Israel Account of how much Power Someone like Bella Hadid has on the social Media Sphere as opposed to an official account of a nation state. But i do think that the slogan that was being chanted there is an undertone, possibly, of ethnic cleansing, from the river to The Sea indicates there may not be a jewish presence. The sea indicates there may not be ajewish presence. And i can see why israel takes issue with that, which is different to chanting the slogan free palestine which does not dispose any political configuration. But i think that Bella Hadid and many other palestinians have not really interrogated the scholarly nuances of that slogan in depth, and i think it has become kind of a Rallying Cry the palestinians on Social Media in demonstrations and other public forums. I think it is not unusual that we saw her embracing that slogan like many other activists. Flan embracing that slogan like many other activists. Embracing that slogan like many other activists. Can i ask you, what is the perception other activists. Can i ask you, what is the perception in other activists. Can i ask you, what is the perception in israel other activists. Can i ask you, what is the perception in israel of other activists. Can i ask you, what is the perception in israel of the i is the perception in israel of the Responsibility of Tech Platforms . Are they seen as a doing enough for being complicit with a particular side . ,. ,. , side . Let me first move from the Ersonal Side . Let me first move from the personal specific side . Let me first move from the personal specific Stage Side . Let me first move from the personal specific Stage Or Side . Let me first move from the i personal specific stage or dimension to the personal specific stage or dimension to the more general one. Speaking about to the more general one. Speaking about throwing people into the scene, about throwing people into the scene, i about throwing people into the scene, i am living about throwing people into the scene, Lam Living in about throwing people into the scene, i am living in israel and about throwing people into the scene, Lam Living in israeland i live scene, Iam Living in israeland i live half scene, Lam Living in israeland i live half a scene, Lam Living in israeland i live half a kilometre from the beach at up live half a kilometre from the beach at Up To live half a kilometre from the beach at Up To the live half a kilometre from the beach at Up To the idea of being thrown into the at Up To the idea of being thrown into The Sea is not very appealing to me into The Sea is not very appealing to me i into The Sea is not very appealing to me. I argue that we should be more to me. I argue that we should be more concerned about Hate Speech in general more concerned about Hate Speech in general on more concerned about Hate Speech in general on Social Media. This Conflict General on Social Media. This conflict is general on Social Media. This Conflict Isjust one case, we should be looking Conflict Isjust one case, we should be looking at other cases on Social Media be looking at other cases on Social Media two be looking at other cases on Social Media. Two years ago, the way that Social Media. Two years ago, the way that Social Media media. Two years ago, the way that Social Media use to spread hate, we did find Social Media use to spread hate, we did find only Social Media use to spread hate, we did find only one type of hate, it is not did find only one type of hate, it is not israel or palestinians, it is all kind is not israel or palestinians, it is all kind of is not israel or palestinians, it is all kind of hate. And it can be white all kind of hate. And it can be white supremacists, neo nazis, anti blacks, and thai muslims, and tie gay, anti blacks, and thai muslims, and tie gay, anti blacks, and thai muslims, and tie gay, the way to look at it is not to tie gay, the way to look at it is not to isolate tie gay, the way to look at it is not to isolate one case. Anti muslim and anti gay. It should be Directed Anti Muslim and anti gay. It should be directed against those companies, it should be directed against those companies, it should be involving educational measures. It should be involving educational measures, defensive measures, how to educate measures, defensive measures, how to educate those tiktok users so that they wont educate those tiktok users so that they wont be seduced or manipulative. Im not sure we are doing manipulative. Im not sure we are doing enough. I manipulative. Im not sure we are doing enough doing enough. I think it is important doing enough. I think it is important to doing enough. I think it is important to flag doing enough. I think it is important to flag that i doing enough. I think it is i important to flag that bella doing enough. I think it is important to flag that Bella Hadid did return to Social Media to say that in her view, what she was chanting in her posts have been pro palestinian as opposed to anti israeli. I wanted to pick up on that point about Tech Platforms how mindful do you think Tech Platforms are about their role . I mean, i was reading that Nick Clegg the Vice President of global affairs for facebook is actually having meetings with the israeli authorities and with palestinian authorities. That is extraordinary to me, that in the middle of all of this, you have these meetings taking place. Do you think they are really aware of the gravity and the role they play here . If aware of the gravity and the role they play here . They play here . If they are not already they they play here . If they are not already they are they play here . If they are not already they are becoming i already they are becoming increasingly aware by the minute. As we have discussed over the last ten minutes or so, this is an incredibly complicated issue, it has long been an incredible complicated issue. And we have tens if not hundreds of millions of users who are interacting and commenting on this day in, day out. These platforms have become our public forums for discussions. So Nick Clegg and john kaplan, two of facebook was among Higher Ups and also some tiktok executives met with the israeli Defence Minister last thursday. I think that facebook have gone on record saying that they had a meeting with the palestinian counterparts next week. And this is all i think designed to try and maybe find their way through some of his nuance. We have had a discussion about the particular song there and the way that it is used, you have to remember that these platforms are moderating their content in a way thatis moderating their content in a way that is often very blind to the context. So i think that is in part what they are trying to do here, to get a bit of understanding with both Sides Point of use in this conflict. I Sides Point of use in this conflict Sides Point of use in this conflict. ,. ,. , conflict. I would like to get your take on the conflict. I would like to get your take on the broader conflict. I would like to get your take on the broader issue i conflict. I would like to get your take on the broader issue herel conflict. I would like to get your. Take on the broader issue here and the broader narrative and the direction of traffic, because there is a question here about where people are getting their news from. And arguably gaza and the situation right now is following a pattern that we saw with blm and we saw post george floyd, we saw people taking to Social Media to express themselves but also to consume news and views and use these platforms as their primary source. And we have seen large numbers of young people doing that. Do seen large numbers of young people doinu that. ,,. , doing that. Do you think that is problematic . Doing that. Do you think that is problematic . I doing that. Do you think that is problematic . I should doing that. Do you think that is problematic . I should say i doing that. Do you think that is problematic . I should say that| doing that. Do you think that is i problematic . I should say that there is a distinct problematic . I should say that there is a distinct difference between blm and the is a distinct difference between blm and the palestinian cause, which actually and the palestinian cause, which actually goes back to the 1960s, tying actually goes back to the 1960s, Tying Black And Brown activism worldwide with a Third World is a movement. This is nothing new. I think movement. This is nothing new. I think we movement. This is nothing new. I think we are movement. This is nothing new. I think we are seeing an escalation in social think we are seeing an escalation in Social Media with new technology that facilitates this kind of linkages we should not exist 50 years linkages we should not exist 50 years ago. I dont think there is anything years ago. I dont think there is anything wrong with it, but i do think anything wrong with it, but i do think that anything wrong with it, but i do think that there is a danger that the use think that there is a danger that the use of think that there is a danger that the use of Social Media is actually escalating the use of Social Media is actually escalating the conflict in the ground escalating the conflict in the ground. As gabriel mentioned earlier, ground. As gabriel mentioned earlier, there are now two battlefields Social Media virtual battlefields Social Media virtual battlefield and the actual content happening on the ground. On social can be happening on the ground. On social can be sitting behind a Screen Thousands and thousands of Miles Away Thousands and thousands of miles away writing posts that are intended to escalate rather than to acquire the situation. And you yourself are not going the situation. And you yourself are not going to incur the suffering that will not going to incur the suffering that will result from people who are living that will result from people who are living in that will result from people who are living in the region. Ithink that will result from people who are living in the region. I think that is the living in the region. I think that is the real living in the region. I think that is the real danger of what is happening today. Is the real danger of what is happening today. Is the real danger of what is haueninatoda. ~ happening today. Thank you. May i refer to the happening today. Thank you. May i refer to the question . Happening today. Thank you. May i refer to the question . I happening today. Thank you. May i refer to the question . I feel happening today. Thank you. May i refer to the question . I feel very. Refer to the question . I feel very comfortable as a Communications Collar to speak about Media Effects in general. We have to distinguish between Cognitive Effects and behavioural effects. We are always looking for Empirical Evidence, i think in the case of tiktok, in the last few weeks, you have had much Empirical Evidence of those types of cognitive and behavioural. You wont give me enough time to lecture about it, but that he does give you one example of this. A week before the conflict started, many tiktok videos showing arabs attacking religious people, dues matt jews showing arabs attacking religious people, dues matt jews in israel. It was so clear that it was seen on tick tock. So if you need any evidence, a powerful effect on whether You Are. I evidence, a powerful effect on whether You Are. Evidence, a powerful effect on whether You Are. I that. You are the editor of this whether You Are. I that. You are the editor of this week whether You Are. I that. You are the editor of this weekjunior. Whether You Are. I that. You are the editor of this weekjunior. For i whether You Are. I that. You are the editor of this weekjunior. For this | editor of this weekjunior. For this Tiktok Generation that we are talking about, why do they want a Hands On Magazine that you actually flick through . You dont swipe, what is the appeal here . I flick through . You dont swipe, what is the appeal here . Is the appeal here . I think it is ust is the appeal here . I think it is just genuinely is the appeal here . I think it is just genuinelyjust is the appeal here . I think it is just genuinelyjust a is the appeal here . I think it is just genuinelyjust a passion i is the appeal here . I think it is | just genuinelyjust a passion for printed just genuinelyjust a passion for printed matter. I mean, we have the very heart printed matter. I mean, we have the very heart of printed matter. I mean, we have the very heart of our mission have a real very heart of our mission have a real passion very heart of our mission have a real passion for reading and encouraging children to read for pleasure encouraging children to read for pleasure. What we have seen over the past five pleasure. What we have seen over the past five years since we launched is that there past five years since we launched is that there are stern appetite for it. That there are stern appetite for it and that there are stern appetite for it and i that there are stern appetite for it. And i think it is a very different it. And i think it is a very different way to consume information. And to go back to what your other information. And to go back to what your other guests have been speaking about, your other guests have been speaking about, i your other guests have been speaking about, i think what we are able to do is about, i think what we are able to do is to about, i think what we are able to do is to apply that calm and non judgemental approach to reporting on the news, we have to be so careful reporting on the news, we have to be so careful in reporting on the news, we have to be so careful in terms of Reporting Stories so careful in terms of Reporting Stories such as these to our readers to not stories such as these to our readers to not inflate anxieties. We really do have to not inflate anxieties. We really do have to to not inflate anxieties. We really do have to stick to the facts as we know do have to stick to the facts as we know them do have to stick to the facts as we know them and allow our readers to make know them and allow our readers to make up know them and allow our readers to make up their own minds about what is going make up their own minds about what is going on make up their own minds about what is going on by providing them with the context and the background to be stories. The context and the background to be stories. To the context and the background to be stories, to help them to understand both sides stories, to help them to understand both sides but without taking a our cells both sides but without taking a our cells. ,. , both sides but without taking a our cells. ,. ,. , both sides but without taking a our cells. ,. ,. , both sides but without taking a our cells. My. ,. , cells. Practically, how would you be coverin cells. Practically, how would you be covering the cells. Practically, how would you be covering the israel cells. Practically, how would you be covering the israel and cells. Practically, how would you be covering the israel and the covering the israel and the palestinian story . How would you be covering that right now . We palestinian story . How would you be covering that right now . Covering that right now . We have done it this covering that right now . We have done it this week, covering that right now . We have done it this week, it covering that right now . We have done it this week, it is covering that right now . We have done it this week, it is a covering that right now . We have done it this week, it is a new i covering that right now . We have | done it this week, it is a new story this week, done it this week, it is a new story this week, the team have just in fact a this week, the team have just in fact a that this week, the team have just in fact a that issue to press. I know that they fact a that issue to press. I know that they were wrestling with a right that they were wrestling with a right until the very last minute, we took an right until the very last minute, we took an enormous amount of care over every took an enormous amount of care over every word. Took an enormous amount of care over every word, every phrase, every picture every word, every phrase, every picture that every word, every phrase, every picture that we use. Our approach is very simpie picture that we use. Our approach is very simpie picture that we use. Our approach is very simple it is extremely calm, we stick very simple it is extremely calm, we stick to very simple it is extremely calm, we stick to the fact that we know, we try we stick to the fact that we know, we try to we stick to the fact that we know, we try to provide balance. And i think we try to provide balance. And i think our we try to provide balance. And i think our readers, because they are as young think our readers, because they are as young as think our readers, because they are as young as seven or eight years old, as young as seven or eight years old. The as young as seven or eight years old, the first thing for us to do is to provide old, the first thing for us to do is to provide them with the context. So expiain to provide them with the context. So expiain the to provide them with the context. So explain the history of the region, expiain explain the history of the region, explain the history of the region, explain the political and religious significance of that area. So that they gain significance of that area. So that they gain an understanding of why these they gain an understanding of why these tensions are so high. What we will not these tensions are so high. What we will not be these tensions are so high. What we will not be doing is providing them with anything that is particularly inflammatory, we are always very careful inflammatory, we are always very careful to inflammatory, we are always very careful to distinguish what we know is a fact careful to distinguish what we know is a fact and what is an opinion or a response is a fact and what is an opinion or a response to the fact. And that is Ust A Response to the fact. And that is just so a response to the fact. And that is just so important, we must not tell them just so important, we must not tell them what just so important, we must not tell them what to think and we just have to tell them what to think and we just have to tell them teach them how to think to tell them teach them how to think. Do to tell them teach them how to think. I. ~ , to tell them teach them how to think. ~ ,. , think. Do you think there is a decree think. Do you think there is a degree of think. Do you think there is a degree of parental think. Do you think there is a degree of parental anxiety i think. Do you think there is a i degree of parental anxiety over think. Do you think there is a degree of parental anxiety over what is available on Social Media and what young people are exposed to thatis what young people are exposed to that is driving traffic to you . Do you think that is why you have these great Sales Figures at the moment . I great Sales Figures at the moment . I think to some degree, yes. We know that we think to some degree, yes. We know that we have a huge amount of trust in the that we have a huge amount of trust in the brand that we have a huge amount of trust in the brand. Parents are very comfortable allowing us to explain world comfortable allowing us to explain world events to their children. Lets world events to their children. Lets Face World events to their children. Lets face it, the world is full of information now, and it moves very quickly information now, and it moves very quickly. And information now, and it moves very quickly. And many children are really quickly. And many children are really too quickly. And many children are really too young to learn, to distinguish between something that has been distinguish between something that has been taken out of context and what has been taken out of context and what is has been taken out of context and what is a has been taken out of context and what is a fact that they need to understand. Sol what is a fact that they need to understand. So i think there is a degree understand. So i think there is a degree of understand. So i think there is a degree of it, i think children, Parents Degree of it, i think children, parents have to see their children reading. Parents have to see their children reading, there is nothing nice as a parent reading, there is nothing nice as a parent from reading, there is nothing nice as a parent from seeing your Child Happiiy Parent from seeing your child happily absorbs any Magazine Or Book happily absorbs any Magazine Or Book i happily absorbs any Magazine Or Book. I think we have found a niche for ourselves, nothing at a time when for ourselves, nothing at a time when many people would like to believe when many people would like to believe that children are only interested in learning through social interested in learning through Social Media or on screens, we have shown Social Media or on screens, we have shown that Social Media or on screens, we have shown that there is still space the quiet shown that there is still space the quiet time shown that there is still space the quiet time. They can just explore the world quiet time. They can just explore the world at their leisure. Do quiet time. They can just explore the world at their leisure. The world at their leisure. Do you think a print the world at their leisure. Do you think a Print Magazine the world at their leisure. Do you think a Print Magazine the the world at their leisure. Do you think a Print Magazine the kids i think a Print Magazine the kids doing well right now is this a kind of Pandemic Blip . 0r doing well right now is this a kind of Pandemic Blip . Or is it a broader trend . Kind of Pandemic Blip . Or is it a broadertrend . I kind of Pandemic Blip . Or is it a broader trend . Broader trend . I think it is a broader trend . I think it is a broader trend. Broader trend . I think it is a broader trend. And broader trend . I think it is a broader trend. And actually | broader trend . I think it is a i broader trend. And actually there are examples of online personalities getting into the print 12. A nine year old in one of the biggest youtube is on the planet, he set up his own magazine which is hugely popular because he wants to try to get this off line connection. It is interesting to see what we are doing there. We interesting to see what we are doing there. ~. ,. ,. , there. We have run out of time. Thank you there. We have run out of time. Thank you so there. We have run out of time. Thank you so much there. We have run out of time. Thank you so much and there. We have run out of time. Thank you so much and thank. There. We have run out of time. I thank you so much and thank you to all of my guest today. I appreciate all of my guest today. I appreciate all of my guest today. I appreciate all of your time. Thank you all. I will be back for the same at the same time next week. Thank you for such listening and you can hear more via bbc sounds, i appreciate your time and take care. Good afternoon. This was the view taken just a few hours ago. Some sunshine around. Equally today, some showers. It is not as wet as it was yesterday. The rain is finally clearing away from the south coast. A scattering of showers. More likely it will be cloudy skies with fair weather cloud. This Low Pressure through the space of 48 hours brought over 100 millimetres to some places. Behind it we have been plunged into a northerly wind, so although that is easing, it is obviously chilly air. Temperatures around the 12 14 mark, and showers are around. The odd one will be heavy, but by and large they will be scattered. Some places could escape dry with some good spells of brightness or even some strong may sunshine. Through the fine evening, temperatures will fall away. Chilly air, as i say, so we will seek chilly air, as i say, so we will see a colder night on the cards. Could be some frost on the cards, as we had in scotland last night, but more widely ground frost across many central and northern areas. Not the west, because as you can see, by into Northern Ireland. Morning we have the next band of Rain Moving into Northern Ireland. And that will push its way eastwards through the day. It should be windy on that weather front, for an hour because it is this area of Low Pressure driving in. You can see that area of rain, it will be three orfour hours of rain for most of us will pick up for a time. Brightness and eastern areas and it might well stay fine and bright. Some showers ahead of The Rain, but dry and bright weather. Rain clearing to sunshine and showers for Northern Ireland but for many it will be fairly active weather for a few hours. Temperatures 11 14. By monday, that rain stuck across northern and western parts of scotland, a couple of decent drier days here, but The Rain to come. Lots of slow moving showers elsewhere. Back to the sunshine and showers scenario. Between, as the wind eases off through the week, we will feel the warmth of the may sunshine, but we will not expect them to get much about the mid to high teens. That Low Pressure just starting to move out in the north sea, so thats where the focus for the showers will be. Just a hint that we might see Pressure Building later in the week. That would just quiet the weather down by looks as though at times we will have showery rain and quite a bit of cloud. This is bbc news. The headlines at five. Fomer Bbc Director general, lord hall, resigns as national Gallery Chairman saying continuing in the role would be a distraction following the inquiry into Panoramas Interview with princess diana. Wider Surge Testing has been rolled out in five west London Boroughs due to a rise in coronavirus cases linked to the indian variant. The first convoys of humanitarian aid have arrived in gaza, hours after a ceasefire between israel and palestinian militants came into effect. Animal rights protesters have been blockading four Mcdonalds Distribution centres in the uk. And get your best sequins out the final rehearsals are done and the pyrotechnics are ready. 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