Was the first subject to be debated, lets Hear what each of the parties had to say. Ido i do think people are understandably still concerned about taking the virus back into scotland to the United Kingdom, we are well through the health pandemic, the success of the health pandemic, the success of the Vaccination Roll Out has been so positive of got more hope and optimism but lets have Steak Patients in scotland and look at what we have here on our own shores and at home here in scotland. The world is still and at home here in scotland. The world is still waiting to be vaccinated in most countries are not on the vaccinated in most countries are not on the scale vaccinated in most countries are not on the Scale And Pace that we are in scotland~ on the Scale And Pace that we are in scotland. Theyre still going to be that risk scotland. Theyre still going to be that risk that we import new cases, potentially that risk that we import new cases, potentially new, more dangerous variance potentially new, more dangerous variance. If we want to ease the restrictions variance. If we want to ease the restrictions at home and keep more of our restrictions at home and keep more of our Day Restrictions at home and keep more of our Day Today lives going back to normal, of our Day Today lives going back to normal, my of our Day Today lives going back to normal, my suspicion is that International Travel for nonessential reasons left one of the latest nonessential reasons left one of the latest things and not one of the earliest latest things and not one of the earliest | latest things and not one of the earliest. , latest things and not one of the earliest. ,. ,. , earliest. I want International Travel to spec earliest. I want International Travel to spec to earliest. I want International Travel to spec to normal earliest. I want International Travel to spec to normal like| earliest. I want international| travel to spec to normal like i earliest. I want International Travel to spec to normal like i want to get travel to spec to normal like i want to get Everything Travel to spec to normal like i want to get Everything Else Travel To Spec to normal like i want to get everything else in travel to spec to normal like i want to get everything else in our travel to spec to normal like i want to get everything else in our lives. To get everything else in our lives back to get everything else in our lives hack to to get everything else in our lives back to normal to get everything else in our lives back to normal as to get everything else in our lives back to normal as quickly to get everything else in our lives back to normal as quickly as back to normal as quickly as possible back to normal as quickly as possible. Getting back to normal as quickly as possible. Getting to back to normal as quickly as possible. Getting to International Travel, possible. Getting to International Travel, never possible. Getting to International Travel, never forget possible. Getting to International Travel, never forget that possible. Getting to International Travel, never forget that but possible. Getting to International Travel, never forget that but for. Travel, never forget that but for many travel, never forget that but for many pe0pte. Travel, never forget that but for many people, International Travel, never forget that but for. Many people, International Travel means many people, International Travel means visiting many people, International Travel means visiting family many people, International Travel means visiting family that many people, International Traveli means visiting family that theyve been means visiting family that theyve been separated means visiting family that theyve been separated from means visiting family that theyve been separated from for means visiting family that theyve been separated from for some. Means visiting family that theyve i been separated from for some time. We do been separated from for some time. We do need been separated from for some time. We do need to been separated from for some time. We do need to be been separated from for some time. We do need to be cautious. Been separated from for some time. We do need to be cautious. Last we do need to be cautious. Last summer we do need to be cautious. Last Summer Sue we do need to be cautious. Last Summer Sue went we do need to be cautious. Last Summer Sue went out we do need to be cautious. Last Summer Sue went out of we do need to be cautious. Last. Summer sue went out of lockdown, we do need to be cautious. Last Summer Sue went out of lockdown, we opened Summer Sue went out of lockdown, we opened up Summer Sue went out of lockdown, we opened up international Summer Sue went out of lockdown, we opened up international Travel Summer sue went out of lockdown, we opened up International Travel to opened up International Travel to quickly opened up International Travel to quickly and opened up International Travel to quickly and that opened up International Travel to quickly and that allowed opened up International Travel to quickly and that allowed the opened up International Travel to| quickly and that allowed the virus to reseed quickly and that allowed the virus to reseed into quickly and that allowed the virus to reseed into scotland. Quickly and that allowed the virus to reseed into scotland. So to reseed into scotland. So responsibility to reseed into scotland. So responsibility is to reseed into scotland. So responsibility is importantl to reseed into scotland. So responsibility is important here to protect responsibility is important here to protect our responsibility is important here to protect our Progress Responsibility is important here to protect our progress at responsibility is important here to protect our progress at home, responsibility is important here to. Protect our progress at home, open up protect our progress at home, open up much protect our progress at home, open up much greater protect our progress at home, open up much greater Normality Up much greater normality domestically up much greater normality domestically than up much greater normality domestically than for up much greater normality domestically than for a up much greater normality. Domestically than for a little up much greater normality domestically than for a little bit longer, domestically than for a little bit longer, it domestically than for a little bit longer, it may domestically than for a little bit longer, it may be domestically than for a little bit longer, it may be that domestically than for a little bit. Longer, it may be that restrictions on international longer, it may be that restrictions on International Travel longer, it may be that restrictions on International Travel is longer, it may be that restrictions on International Travel is the longer, it may be that restrictions on International Travel is the price you have on International Travel is the price you have to on International Travel is the price you have to pay on International Travel is the price you have to pay for on International Travel is the price you have to pay for that. On International Travel is the price you have to pay for that. On International Travel is the price you have to pay for that. Would like a consistent you have to pay for that. Would like a consistent approach, you have to pay for that. Would like a consistent approach, but you have to pay for that. Would like a consistent approach, but I You have to pay for that. Would like a consistent approach, but i do you have to pay for that. Would like a consistent approach, but i do not| a consistent approach, but i do not think we should be opposed to do things differently in scotland if you think it is the right thing to do. ~. , you think it is the right thing to do. ,. , you think it is the right thing to do. You think it is the right thing to do. ~. ,. , you think it is the right thing to do. What about those who might . We have to have do. What about those who might . We have to have greater do. What about those who might . We have to have greater transparency have to have greater Transparency And Control around that, but i think we have to take a balanced approach and depends on which country you are travelling to and which country people are travelling from in terms of Infection Rates and variance. I think caution should be the watchword in all of this. We have learned watchword in all of this. We have learned from mistakes of last year when learned from mistakes of last year when things are eased to quickly and spain when things are eased to quickly and spain was when things are eased to quickly and spain was changed within a week. If we can spain was changed within a week. If we can get spain was changed within a week. If we can get the best way of approaching it, we need to recognise that countries around the world have not been that countries around the world have not been as that countries around the world have not been as fast as the uk Rolling Out the not been as fast as the uk Rolling Out the vaccine and in some countries, out the vaccine and in some countries, we have seen the virus take countries, we have seen the virus take hold countries, we have seen the virus take hold once again with new strains take hold once again with new strains. We have to make sure the stone strains. We have to make sure the stone come strains. We have to make sure the stone come back and undermine all the good stone come back and undermine all the good work that i think we have done the good work that i think we have done in the good work that i think we have done in this the good work that i think we have done in this country and the sacrifices done in this country and the sacrifices we have made as well. With me is our political Correspondent Nick eardley the opening foreign travel, tourism, the handling of Covid I9 Pandemic how did any of the other leaders, were they able to lay a glove on Nicholas Sturgeon in relation to that . fin Nicholas Sturgeon in relation to that . ,. ,. ,. , that . On the International Travel section, there that . On the International Travel section, there are that . On the International Travel section, there are all that . On the International Travel section, there are all urging section, there are all urging caution when freddie will probably get for england, places you can go on holiday, green the will not involve quarantine when you return. It feels to me like up here, theres a slightly different perspective on it and you Heard Nicola Sturgeon and others say quite clearly there that they think that if need be, scotland takes a more cautious approach, a different road and although Douglas Ross did say that he thought if the Uk Government moves to allow a few countries we can go on a holiday without having to quarantine, that he was cautious too. So this field to me that this Election Campaign has emphasised the fact that scotland has and will probably continue to make some slightly different decisions at slightly different decisions at slightly different times on the pandemic. In not sure there was a moment there where Nicola Sturgeon was saying, they really hit me On My Own record on that. We Heard this questions about Care Homes and things like that and they brought that up. It was interesting there is, i think all the parties seemed quite cautious. ,. Well inevitably the debate over independence played a major part in the debate with Nicola Sturgeon saying the scottish government will not hold an illegal, Wildcat Referendum as the Scottish Tories have alleged. Lets get a flavour of those exchanges now starting with the leader of the Scottish Tories, Douglas Ross. Seek a section 30 order but that is the wrong thing to do right now in this global pandemic. To seek to defy the country all over again and within say absolutely the priority has to be a recovery and Nicola Sturgeon will proceed with a wild referendum anyway. Referendum anyway. Dont try to issue Smears Referendum anyway. Dont try to issue smears and referendum anyway. Dont try to issue smears and telL Referendum anyway. Dont try to issue smears and tell untruths L Referendum anyway. Dont try to issue smears and tell untruths about my Position Issue smears and tell untruths about my position and what ive said. I said my position and what ive said. I said consistently that sometimes, criticism said consistently that sometimes, criticism from people in my own set of the criticism from people in my own set of the argument that i would not countenance an illegaL Referendum, not because it would not deliver independence, i want scotland to become independence, i want scotland to become an independent country and i will be become an independent country and i will be responsible about that and i will be responsible about that and i will build will be responsible about that and i will build and ultimately win the case for will build and ultimately win the case for independence through Patient Case for independence through Patient Persuasion of people across the country. | Patient Persuasion of people across the country. I do Patient Persuasion of people across the country the country. I do not support referendum, the country. I do not support referendum, i the country. I do not support referendum, i do the country. I do not support referendum, i do not the country. I do not support| referendum, i do not support independence referendum, i do not support independence on referendum, i do not support independence on pure referendum, i do not support independence on pure to referendum, i do not support. Independence on pure to choose Something Independence on pure to choose something different. Independence on pure to choose something different. I independence on pure to choose something different. Iwant independence on pure to choose i something different. I want them independence on pure to choose something different. I want them to focus something different. I want them to focus on something different. I want them to focus on the something different. I want them to focus on the national something different. I want them to focus on the national Recovery Something different. I want them to focus on the national recovery in focus on the national recovery in Parliament Focus on the national recovery in parliament as focus on the national recovery in parliament. As a focus on the national recovery in parliament. As a people focus on the national recovery in parliament. As a people are focus on the national recovery in i parliament. As a people are going focus on the national recovery in parliament. As a people are going to choose parliament. As a people are going to choose on parliament. As a people are going to choose on thursday parliament. As a people are going to choose on thursday and parliament. As a people are going to choose on thursday and if parliament. As a people are going to choose on thursday and if they parliament. As a people are going to choose on thursday and if they want| choose on thursday and if they want us to choose on thursday and if they want us to focus choose on thursday and if they want us to focus on choose on thursday and if they want us to focus on their choose on thursday and if they want us to focus on theirjobs, choose on thursday and if they want us to focus on theirjobs, the us to focus on theirjobs, The Church us to focus on theirjobs, The Church in us to focus on theirjobs, The Church in education, us to focus on theirjobs, The Church in education, that us to focus on theirjobs, The Church in education, that is l us to focus on theirjobs, the I Church in education, that is on us to focus on theirjobs, The Church in education, that is on the ballot, Church In education, that is on the ballot, but Church In education, that is on the ballot, but you Church In education, that is on the ballot, but you only Church In education, that is on the ballot, but you only get Church In education, that is on the ballot, but you only get that Church In education, that is on the l ballot, but you only get that option if you ballot, but you only get that option if you use ballot, but you only get that option if you use both ballot, but you only get that option if you use both votes ballot, but you only get that option if you use both votes for ballot, but you only get that option if you use both votes for labour. I if you use both votes for labour. Despite if you use both votes for labour. Despite the if you use both votes for labour. Despite the best if you use both votes for labour. Despite the best intention, if you use both votes for labour. I despite the best intention, there always be the national movement though argument themselves about timing, but currency, for the next five years. But if you vote liberal democrat, you can put all of that behind you and focus on the recovery. That is the difference our votes will make in this election. I dont see how we can focus on the recovery dont see how we can focus on the recovery in dont see how we can focus on the recovery in shape Scotlands Recovery Recovery in shape Scotlands Recovery if you do not at least ask the People Recovery if you do not at least ask the people the question of if there better the people the question of if there better place to achieve fairer society better place to achieve fairer society. 0ur better place to achieve fairer society. Our economy, our economy is ripping society. Our economy, our economy is ripping apart society. 0ur economy, our economy is ripping apart a society. Our economy, our economy is ripping apart a life support system. How can ripping apart a life support system. How can we respond to the challenge as part how can we respond to the challenge as part of how can we respond to the challenge as part of borisjohnsons brexit britain . As part of borisjohnsons brexit britain . 0r as part of borisjohnsons brexit britain . 0rare we best as part of borisjohnsons brexit britain . Or are we best place to respond britain . Or are we best place to respond to britain . Or are we best place to respond to this incredible challenges as a small independent country challenges as a small independent country looking to get back into Europe Country looking to get back into europe was white with me is our political Correspondent Nick Eardley And Boris Johnson Referendum and borisJohnson Referendum vote are pushing for Referendum Vote for the Pro Independence parties. Has she suggested that would happen . What they have said and are planning to pass a bill in this place in hollywood which would legislate for another referendum and the Uk Government to take them to court and say we cannot do it. But that does not quite equate to an illegaL Referendum because i dont think they would want to be in a position where there holding referendum and internationally recognised. There could be a legal challenge over this and a battle over the courts whether or not The Church scottish party has the right to call another referendum or to pass legislation for another referendum. But inevitably, she faces the most questions on this because she is the one who wants to hold another referendum and her argument always continues that if you want to build back properly, the economy after the pandemic, then you need to do it with the powers that come with independence. But i think because all the parties are focused so much on their core messages when it comes to the constitutions, they all face questions. For Douglas Ross, how did they get another referendum if they want one . What happens if this place is Pro Independence votes for another Referendum Stop did they try to tell Keir Starmer to block it at westminster . I think we Got A hint of that because they said it was their manifesto to oppose another referendum, that is the strongest example that weve had that whatever happens on thursday, he will oppose another referendum in the Scottish Parliament. But what Nicola Sturgeon struggled most with what specifics and that is been the case of the past few weeks because the case for independence basically needs updating. Except of the pandemic, per exit, the border issues we have seen between Northern Ireland and great britain tell me that there are Big Questionsjust been great britain tell me that there are big questions just been very keen to say that ill answer them closer to the time. Which basically means, the answers are not there yet. It the time. Which basically means, the answers are not there yet. Answers are not there yet. It wasnt ust answers are not there yet. It wasnt just covid19 answers are not there yet. It wasnt just covid19 or answers are not there yet. It wasnt just covid19 or independence, answers are not there yet. It wasnt just covid19 or independence, we. Just Covid I9 or independence, we had a lot of discussions about policies as well. The Bread And Butter issues that some would say are way more important than independence. Tax policies, growing the economy after Covid I9 and someone. How the the debate went on that . You and someone. How the the debate went on that . ,. ,. ,. ,. ,. , on that . You Got A flavour of some of some of on that . You Got A flavour of some of some of the on that . You Got A flavour of some of some of the parties on that . You Got A flavour of some of some of the parties agreeing, i of some of the parties agreeing, evenif of some of the parties agreeing, even if theyre big debates on the ideology around the stove. An Income Tax, none of them want to change a particularly soon, but one exception is Douglas Ross wants to bring the Income Tax in line with england and the other parties will say, that is a tactic out for the rich interest creating parity in england after was changed here three or four years ago. Likewise on the national, care service, there was some debate there about the role of the private sector, really interesting that Nicola Sturgeon was talking about taking profit out of the Care Sector and potentially looking towards more publicly funded model over time. Douglas ross saying Theres Nothing wrong with the private sector being involved in this, they do a great job. But all the parties think they need more money in the longer Term Solution as if seen in the Uk Debate as well. Those issues really matter. Theres so many issues that this place has responsibilities for there will be on peoples minds when they go to vote on thursday. The Got A really nice flavour that tonight but there is a reason might be keep coming back to Independence And Independence often bleeds through all of these issues and with a disagree, it is often because for example, Income Tax. Nicholas sturgeon and scotland could do something different but Nicola Sturgeon, Independence Party so you need the powers of independence to do the economic Recovery Stuff properly and imagine being distracted by that at such an important time. All of these issues matter. It independence is also the one that transcends them all. Having watched a number of these debates, Notjust In Scotland but Uk Level as well, its really not a clear winner these days, everyone has a job in these days, everyone has a job in the job is to get the core message. What is really interesting about these debates is, Douglas Ross has come under pressure and thats because the snp want this, the between them and the conservatives of borisjohnson. The Lib Dems think they can get support by attacking they can get support by attacking the conservatives as to the greens. So there were some tough times for Nicola Sturgeon on independence and i think the pleased with the way he was coming across to the public question now is with 2a hours left of the campaign is whether or not that translates into votes. 0n the campaign trail, everyone has said, its really hard to tell. The big questions, whether the snp get a majority is too close to call. Can labour catch the conservatives. They do not think it is likely given the margin of the moment, but No One and the Labour Party is prepared to say no just yet. As the Labour Party is prepared to say nojust yet. As it the Labour Party is prepared to say no just yet. As it change the dial . Probably not . But i think we have a real good flavour of what is at stake on thursday. With me now is Professor Sirjohn Curtice from strathclyde university. For his perspective on all of this. Good evening to you. Thank you for joining us again, john. This idea of a care service, ijust wonder, i just do not know if youve done any polling on this. We know there have been problems in scotland indeed in across the United Kingdom over Care Homes and Covid I9. The idea of a national care service, is that resonating with voters. Have you done any polling on that . Ida. Resonating with voters. Have you done any polling on that . Resonating with voters. Have you done any polling on that . No, i have not seen any done any polling on that . No, i have not seen any on done any polling on that . No, i have not seen any on that done any polling on that . No, i have not seen any on that subject done any polling on that . No, i have not seen any on that subject for not seen any on that subject for what we would help to illustrate is that some of them, there are differences between labour, conservatives and Liberal Democrats and it would be difficult to use discern this. We have seen some fairly standard responses and with everyone thinks the services suffered and notjust from scotland but the uk as a whole. Douglas rossanswer but the uk as a whole. Douglas Rossa Nswer is lets but the uk as a whole. Douglas rossanswer is lets support the existing care industry, which is largely run by the private sector and thats what we should keep Labour And Contrast is say, pretty much nationalise it and make it something that can be delivered by the Public Sector and Nicola Sturgeon more closer to labour instead of Douglas Ross were not going to stand in the position. 0ne going to stand in the position. One of the things is at the beginning of the programme, it is been very difficult to identify the ways in which the parties differ in their prescription for post pandemic scotland. But given that the way in which people were moved other hospitals and to Care Home suddenly out of hospitals. And that in turn is a problem about the ability of being able to organise social care for older people, it was interesting and what was in the sensual long Running Thing the site you can scotland is that it was highlighted by the pandemic is one by which we get to see some traditional differences between conservative and labour. And for the most part of difficulty running this campaign. D0 most part of difficulty running this camaiun. , most part of difficulty running this camaiun. a, most part of difficulty running this camiain. ~. , , campaign. Do you think any minds have been changed campaign. Do you think any minds have been changed at campaign. Do you think any minds have been changed at this campaign. Do you think any minds have been changed at this late campaign. Do you think any minds i have been changed at this late stage in the campaign for people who may have seen the debate . Anyone swinging in a different Direction do you think . The swinging in a different Direction do ou think . , swinging in a different Direction do ou think . ,. ,. , you think . The answer to that is robabl you think . The answer to that is probably not you think . The answer to that is probably not. For you think . The answer to that is probably not. For being you think . The answer to that is probably not. For being the you think . The answer to that is i probably not. For being the master of the quip and Douglas Ross about him being Gods Gift to the snp. And saying have the nation, they have demonstrated throughout the various debate that hes got the sharpest quip, but i dont think many minds were changed. If someone were to land from Morris Tomorrow and given a vote and the scottish election and wanted to find out what they should do. This very neatly illustrated themes and difficulties that are around the selection as they said, it is for above all, whether or not we should be having a referendum on independence and not but within that question marks the substance of independent where they begin to struggle and arguments about brexit for the conservatives begin to struggle and as we have been talking about, there is still a secondary division with Scottish Parliament that they dominate that secondary division is about your attitude towards but the or not you want a bigger estate or a smaller one, bigger estate or a smaller one, bigger or less of taxation, things which have been largely absent from this campaign but i think this programme neatly illustrates that yes, there is a difference between a tory and a socialist, even if on the question of independence. The division has been in view. Many thins. Division has been in view. Many things. Thank division has been in view. Many things. Thank you division has been in view. Many things. Thank you for division has been in view. Many things. Thank you for your things. Thank you for your perspective there. Lets speak to two voters joining me is Louise Thomson from tranent in south Scotland And Ollie folayan from aberdeen. You said that you were leaning towards the snp. Pro independence, was there anything that happened tonight that may have changed your mind . Give you pause for thought . No, i think everything that has been said in the previous debates, i dont think theres particularly anything new tonight. It does not impacted my Direction. I anything new tonight. It does not impacted my Direction. Anything new tonight. It does not impacted my Direction. I think you are between impacted my Direction. I think you are between the impacted my Direction. I think you are between the greens impacted my Direction. I think you are between the greens and impacted my Direction. I think you i are between the greens and labour. Have you got off that fence on one side or the other . I have you got off that fence on one side or the other . Side or the other . I think i am auoin to side or the other . I think i am going to be side or the other . I think i am going to be voting side or the other . I think i am going to be voting labour. Side or the other . I think i am going to be voting labour. It i side or the other . I think i am i going to be voting labour. It was less about going to be voting labour. It was less about the performances today, nicota less about the performances today, Nicola Sturgeon is probably strongest but i could not see myself voting strongest but i could not see myself voting for strongest but i could not see myself voting for the snp. 0n strongest but i could not see myself voting for the snp. On that basis, i would voting for the snp. On that basis, i would say voting for the snp. On that basis, i would say that i lean more towards labour would say that i lean more towards labour which is strengthened my view on that labour which is strengthened my view on that. ~. , labour which is strengthened my view on that. ~. ,. , on that. What is it that the scottish greens on that. What is it that the scottish greens did on that. What is it that the scottish greens did not on that. What is it that the scottish greens did not do| on that. What is it that the i scottish greens did not do for on that. What is it that the scottish greens did not do for you and convince you and made you feel that you should be going for labour. Because its the scottish greens to get well be in power as part of a coalition with the snp. That get well be in power as part of a coalition with the snp. Coalition with the snp. That is true, coalition with the snp. That is true. But coalition with the snp. That is true, but what coalition with the snp. That is true, but what i coalition with the snp. That is true, but what i was coalition with the snp. That is true, but what i was thinking L Coalition with the snp. That is l true, but what i was thinking of coalition with the snp. That is true, but what i was thinking of is a couple true, but what i was thinking of is a couple of true, but what i was thinking of is a couple of things that were important to me at the start of this important to me at the start of this one important to me at the start of this. One does not relieve the constitutional question because i do not feet constitutional question because i do not feel that there is any question in the not feel that there is any question in the future of scotland that rests sotety in the future of scotland that rests solely on in the future of scotland that rests solely on the question of independence. I think there are particular independence. I think there are particular ways that she is a little Bit Ctearer particular ways that she is a little bit clearer on what a future of what scotland bit clearer on what a future of what scotland may look like in a more involved scotland may look like in a more involved and Empowered Scotland even without involved and Empowered Scotland even without independence and another thin without independence and another thing was without independence and another thing was the Energy Transition Act and we thing was the Energy Transition Act and We Att Thing was the Energy Transition Act and we all want to know is which party and we all want to know is which party has and we all want to know is which party has a and we all want to know is which party has a coherent plan to take us into that party has a coherent plan to take us into that future. Taking away all of those into that future. Taking away all of those questions and of those two questions, i would those questions and of those two questions, iwould probably those questions and of those two questions, i would probably have the greens questions, i would probably have the greens as questions, i would probably have the greens as a questions, i would probably have the greens as a second choice and it felt tabour greens as a second choice and it Felt Labour it was a bit stronger on those Felt Labour it was a bit stronger on those accounts. It is Felt Labour it was a bit stronger on those accounts. Those accounts. It is important to ou. Are those accounts. It is important to you are you those accounts. It is important to you. Are you getting those accounts. It is important to you. Are you getting enough you. Are you getting enough reassurance from Nicola Sturgeon and party that they are on top of economy, employmentjobs and economy, Employment Jobs and education economy, employmentjobs and education and did you get enough of that from the debate this evening . I do not think we got enough of that in the debate and there was a reflection on Nicola Sturgeon or the snp. Just the way the conversation went, but certainly but surprisingly, we did not talk more about Climate Change and as always, about Climate Change and as always, a huge issue, especially with them hosting the World Forum and we still have, education, a lot of people talking about the curriculum for excellence and the segment of budgets, particularly local governments saying, that is what really trickles down to people at the local level and we dont know exactly what the impact on peoples Day Today lives. We exactly what the impact on peoples Day Today lives Day Today lives. We will ended there. Good Day Today lives. We will ended there. Good luck Day Today lives. We will ended there. Good luck casting Day Today lives. We will ended there. Good luck casting your| Day Today lives. We will ended there. Good luck casting your votes on thursday and thank you very much indeed forjoining us on Bbc News, much appreciated. Thank you. Joining me is Author And Broadcaster and Indepencence Campaigner Lesley Riddoch and Andy Maciver former head of communications for the scottish conservatives now political commentator. Good to see you both again. If i could start with you, ijust good to see you both again. If i could start with you, i just wonder do you feel Nicola Sturgeon did enoughin do you feel Nicola Sturgeon did enough in that final debate to cement what they believe will be a majority in parliament . I cement what they believe will be a majority in parliament . Majority in parliament . I dont think the Debate Majority in parliament . I dont think the debate will majority in parliament . I dont think the debate will decide i majority in parliament . I dont| think the debate will decide the majority in parliament . I dont think the debate will decide the get a majority. The majority, im not surprised if hell be right on the bubble that 65 seats in or to me theyll be decided by a variety of different situations will be very close and im not sure tonight whether it will of changed much. But what i think Nicola Sturgeon achieved tonight with about a policy which actually suited Anas Sarwar quite a lot but what Nicola Sturgeon did achieve was that she softened some of the edges around the argument a little bit. She made it quite clear and some of her answers, talking about Patient Persuasion and very strong referendum but that they accused her of and i think that for those who are just becoming a bit worried which they have been over the past few days, for those becoming a bit worried about a very quick referendum and wanting to see one, they might not want to see one right now, they might want to see one in four years instead of two years, i think theyjust one in four years instead of two years, i think they just soften one in four years instead of two years, i think theyjust soften the edges around a little Bit Tonight and made it quite clear in my view that youre going to see a referendum for at least 2023. D0 that youre going to see a referendum for at least 2023. Do you think any of referendum for at least 2023. Do you think any of the referendum for at least 2023. Do you think any of the other referendum for at least 2023. Do you think any of the other Parties Referendum for at least 2023. Do you think any of the other parties were i think any of the other parties were able to demonstrate why Nicola Sturgeon and the snp should not be the dominant force . Iflat sturgeon and the snp should not be the dominant force . Sturgeon and the snp should not be the dominant force . Not really. And in fact, all of the dominant force . Not really. And in fact, all of them the dominant force . Not really. And in fact, all of them in the dominant force . Not really. And in fact, all of them in previous in fact, all of them in previous debates in fact, all of them in previous debates have actually said that they do not debates have actually said that they do not expect to be first minister. Theyre do not expect to be first minister. Theyre playing for second, which is an extraordinary thing and i do not remember an extraordinary thing and i do not remember an election where they have been so remember an election where they have been so roundly thrown and a towel before been so roundly thrown and a towel before the been so roundly thrown and a towel before The End. 0ne been so roundly thrown and a towel before The End. One thing that some people before The End. 0ne Thing that some people is before The End. One thing that some people is really will come second and most people is really will come second and most of the debates and again tonight and most of the debates and again tonight is and most of the debates and again tonight is Asjohn Curtis said, Anas Sarwar tonight is Asjohn Curtis said, Anas Sarwar has tonight is Asjohn Curtis said, Anas Sarwar has reHearsed his squibs so incredibly sarwar has reHearsed his squibs so incredibly well that no matter what stonewalling he faces, he approaches that calmly and winds the day. We look at that calmly and winds the day. We look at opinion polls, labour is still lagging behind the tories. I think still lagging behind the tories. I think the still lagging behind the tories. I think the thing is, if it really is in peoples think the thing is, if it really is in peoples minds about that independence, perhaps the stern unyielding face of Douglas Ross seems unyielding face of Douglas Ross seems to be more like what you would want to seems to be more like what you would want to stand up to, a pretty powerful want to stand up to, a pretty powerful and articulate Snp Leader like Nicola Sturgeon. Sol powerful and articulate Snp Leader like Nicola Sturgeon. So i think it will be like Nicola Sturgeon. So i think it will be fascinating to see what leader will be fascinating to see what Leader Unionists and scotland actually Leader Unionists and scotland actually want because Anas Sarwar is certainly actually want because Anas Sarwar is certainly coming across as more personable and get actually, that might personable and get actually, that might not be helping him in The End. Thats might not be helping him in The End. Thats an might not be helping him in The End. Thats an interesting point because Anas Sarwar has been in thejob thats an interesting point because Anas Sarwar has been in the job for a matter of weeks. Do you think he is beginning potentially to be able to put labour on the kind of footing that might see it and make inroads with the electorate in ways that it has not done for many years now . Yes, but not yet. I think he is building labour up to overtake the tories relatively soon and certainly in time for the next election in 2026. The tories were not been and be as strong as labour. The Anas Sarwar� s right now is about the constitution and the tories are on one side with a very strong position and the snp on the other side of the road with a very strong position in labour is in the middle and they get squashed because of the moment, the voters want a strong position on the Constitution And Labour Cant Offer one right now and that is what you see Anas Sarwar wanting to concentrate on policy is much as possible and not wanting to concentrate on the constitution. You have to remember Douglas Ross and his party Got A 25 of the votes in the 2019 general election. If you can hold onto the bulk of that 25 of us of a chance that he can increases the number of seats so it will at least stay the same. If he becomes the so the figure that people love to hate and some of these debates, he is very focused on this and very angry about this because that 25 of the population wanting to be like that. That is what they want to Hear and he absolutely wants to hold onto as many of them as possible to do well and remember the got 31 seats in 2016 and 22 of the vote. They report higher than that a couple of years ago, so you can write them off in terms of getting enough seats and thats why the strategy is just a focus on that issue and be pretty angry about it because thats what they want to Hear. I5 angry about it because thats what they want to Hear. They want to Hear. Is good to talk to ou they want to Hear. Is good to talk to you both they want to Hear. Is good to talk to you both. Thank they want to Hear. Is good to talk to you both. Thank you they want to Hear. Is good to talk to you both. Thank you very they want to Hear. Is good to talk| to you both. Thank you very much they want to Hear. Is good to talk to you both. Thank you very much for joining us on Bbc News. Due to the coronavirus restrictions, it is going to take longer for the results to come in on thursday and so theres no need to stay up Tomorrow Night to find out. Our Results Programme starts at 9am on Friday Morning bringing you all the results across scotland, wales and england with Huw Edwards on the Bbc News channel. We have had the fourth and final Leaders Debate here in scotland. The five leaders of the main parties laying out there score as we go to The End of the election road. Clearly the polls are suggesting that the snp could be heading towards a majority in the parliament and that they believe it will give them the mandate to push for another second independent referendum. We will have to see if their wish comes true. That is it from All Of Us here in edinburgh. Goodbye. Youre watching Bbc News with me Katty Kay in washington. Christian fraser is in london. Our top stories. 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