Going through hours of testimony, hours of witnesses. They have been going through all of that. They have now reached a verdict in the three charges against derek showman. They are making their way through the court worm. And in half an hours time, that verdict will be read out In Open Court On Television for us all to see and we will know whether he has been found guilty, not gilly tammy guilty, not guilty on some charges guilty on others. All will be clarified half hour time. In it is a trial being watched Around The World, and particularly here in the city where its being held in minneapolis is on high alert. There are National Guardsmen outside the courthouse trying to keep the peace awaiting for the verdict. Joining us now for mark is lori swanson, former attorney Generalfor Mark is lori swanson, former Attorney General for minnesota. We heard there from caroline, her view, the fact that this verdict has been reached by the memories of the jury, the 12 members of the jury so quickly afterjust ii the 12 members of the jury so quickly after just 11 hours the 12 members of the jury so quickly afterjust 11 hours of deliberation suggested to her that maybe they have reached a unanimous verdict, and she thinks they may have a unanimous verdict on all three counts of guilty. We dont know that. What are you reading and to the fact that the jurors have come back so quickly. I to the fact that the jurors have come back so quickly. To the fact that the jurors have come back so quickly. I would read it the exact come back so quickly. I would read it the exact same come back so quickly. I would read it the exact same way. It the exact same way. The fact that they have come back this quickly i think makes it highly likely this quickly i think makes it highly likely that this quickly i think makes it highly likely that they have rendered a unanimous verdict on all three counts unanimous verdict on all three counts. Because if the jury didnt yet reach counts. Because if the jury didnt yet reach a counts. Because if the jury didnt yet reach a unanimous verdict, meaning yet reach a unanimous verdict, meaning all 12jurors yet reach a unanimous verdict, meaning all 12 jurors have yet reach a unanimous verdict, meaning all 12jurors have to yet reach a unanimous verdict, meaning all 12 jurors have to vote the same meaning all 12 jurors have to vote the same way, then i think they would the same way, then i think they would keep staying with the case and debating would keep staying with the case and debating and deliberating. In fact, the Judge Debating and deliberating. In fact, the judge in a case like this would require the judge in a case like this would require the the judge in a case like this would require the jury to really keep deliberating until they finally tell the judge that they have an impasse and that the judge that they have an impasse and that there is a hung jury. Sol do think and that there is a hung jury. Sol do think that the fact that they have do think that the fact that they have come back this quickly means it is very have come back this quickly means it is very very have come back this quickly means it is very very likely that there will be a is very very likely that there will be a conviction on all three counts. We are be a conviction on all three counts. We are told be a conviction on all three counts. We are told that after the verdict is read in the next half hour, the court is planning to allow the State Attorney General and members of the floyd family to speak for up to 20 minutes from the courtroom, and the white house also saying that the president is going to plan a National Address once the verdict is announced. So it tells you just how big this is in the Psyche Of Americans who are watching. It americans who are watching. It really is a major case. My office here really is a major case. My office here is really is a major case. My office here is a really is a major case. My office here is a block from the courthouse and there here is a block from the courthouse and there has been a lot of anticipation, a lot of uncertainty in terms anticipation, a lot of uncertainty in terms of anticipation, a lot of uncertainty in terms of what would happen. This case realty in terms of what would happen. This case really has symbolised much more than case really has symbolised much more thahjust case really has symbolised much more thanjust the killing of case really has symbolised much more than just the killing of george floyd than just the killing of george floyd as than just the killing of george floyd as horrific as it is for this country. Floyd as horrific as it is for this country, this case has really taken on more country, this case has really taken on more meaning in terms of, you know. On more meaning in terms of, you know. Are on more meaning in terms of, you know. Are we on more meaning in terms of, you know, are we a country that believes in racial know, are we a country that believes in racial equality and that will do something about it when you capture a Video Something about it when you capture a video that was horrific, as this video a video that was horrific, as this video i a video that was horrific, as this video. I think in this case, what has made video. I think in this case, what has made this one perhaps different than other has made this one perhaps different than other prosecutions is that we do have than other prosecutions is that we do have that video, nine minutes and 20 seconds. Do have that video, nine minutes and 20 seconds, a very graphic video showing 20 seconds, a very graphic video showing exactly what happened to george showing exactly what happened to george floyd and how it was done. That is george floyd and how it was done. That is different than a lot of other that is different than a lot of other officer involved deaths that weve other officer involved deaths that weve seen prosecutions occur with, where weve seen prosecutions occur with, where maybe there is a video, but maybe where maybe there is a video, but maybe a where maybe there is a video, but maybe a few seconds, it might be grainy. Maybe a few seconds, it might be grainy. It maybe a few seconds, it might be grainy, it might be jumping around and hard grainy, it might be jumping around and hard to grainy, it might be jumping around and hard to tell what happened. Here. And hard to tell what happened. Here. As and hard to tell what happened. Here, as lead Prosecutorjerry Blackwell who volunteered his time on this blackwell who volunteered his time on this case has said, believe your eyes on this case has said, believe your eyes you on this case has said, believe your eyes. You can simply watch the video and believe eyes. You can simply watch the video and believe your eyes. As he said yesterday. And believe your eyes. As he said yesterday, it is what it is. I think that yesterday, it is what it is. I think that too yesterday, it is what it is. I think that too has yesterday, it is what it is. I think that too has fed into and lead in to a quick that too has fed into and lead in to a guickjury that too has fed into and lead in to a quickjury decision. A quickjury decision. Lori, it is interesting a quickjury decision. Lori, it is interesting that a quickjury decision. Lori, it is interesting that the a quickjury decision. Lori, it is interesting that the president l a quickjury decision. Lori, it is i interesting that the president will make a statement after the Family Members and keep allison there. The president did earlier today sayjoe biden said earlier today he was praying for the right verdict. Is that tipping his hands on the scales ofjustice . That tipping his hands on the scales of ustice . , ,. , ofjustice . No, because the ury was sequestered ofjustice . No, because the ury was sequestered at i ofjustice . No, because the ury was sequestered at that fi ofjustice . No, because the ury was sequestered at that point. Ofjustice . No, because the jury was sequestered at that point. The sequestered at that point. The president consciously said that he refrained president consciously said that he refrained from making remarks about the deliberations before the jury had been sequestered, but once they are sequestered, basically means that they are sequestered, basically means that they are locked in together, staying that they are locked in together, staying in that they are locked in together, staying in a hotel, and they wouldnt staying in a hotel, and they wouldnt be hearing any public commentary or any press. I think the President Commentary or any press. I think the president of commentary or any press. I think the president of the United States indicates of this magnitude is being watched indicates of this magnitude is being watched and televised live in this country watched and televised live in this country. Everybody is paying attention as a leader and as a President Attention as a leader and as a president would feel a sense of wanting president would feel a sense of wanting to comment and speak to the nation wanting to comment and speak to the nation about something thats on everybodys mines. Everybodys mines. Lori, for the moment. Everybodys mines. Lori, for the moment, thank everybodys mines. Lori, for the moment, thank you everybodys mines. Lori, for the moment, thank you very everybodys mines. Lori, for the moment, thank you very much i everybodys mines. Lori, for the l moment, thank you very much for that. Lets speak to the defence, for some legal context we can speak now to Defense Attorney and former criminal prosecutor in the state of minnesota john lesch we we re we were just talking there about the president s comments today and whether it had tipped the balance. Maxine waters, the Congress Woman from california, she did speak in Minneapolis On Saturday and yesterday, Thejudge Minneapolis On Saturday and yesterday, the judge said that in his view, it could give the defence grounds for appeal. So there will be concerns that politicians have spoken and perhaps influenced this verdict. I spoken and perhaps influenced this verdict. Spoken and perhaps influenced this verdict. ~. , spoken and perhaps influenced this verdict. ,. ,. Verdict. I think one important thing to remember verdict. I think one important thing to remember is verdict. I think one important thing to remember is the verdict. I think one important thing to remember is the judge verdict. I think one important thing to remember is the judge was verdict. I think one important thing | to remember is the judge was doing hisjoh to remember is the judge was doing hisjob giving a warning to people to make hisjob giving a warning to people to make sure they did not take such actions to make sure they did not take such actions that to make sure they did not take such actions that could invade the province actions that could invade the province of the jury. That said, it would province of the jury. That said, it would be province of the jury. That said, it would be a province of the jury. That said, it would be a different legal issue to determine whether or not to deprived derek determine whether or not to deprived Derek Chauvin of a fair trial on that Derek Chauvin of a fair trial on that instance. Of course, now, with the that instance. Of course, now, with the jury that instance. Of course, now, with the jury being sequestered, the president s statements as a former attorney president s statements as a former Attorney General has said are probably Attorney General has said are probably not as much is an issue. The judge probably not as much is an issue. The judge was doing hisjob in issuing the judge was doing hisjob in issuing a the judge was doing hisjob in issuing a warning for people to be respectful issuing a warning for people to be respectful of the process. To issuing a warning for people to be respectful of the process. Respectful of the process. To the prosecution respectful of the process. To the prosecution in respectful of the process. To the prosecution in your respectful of the process. To the prosecution in your view respectful of the process. To the prosecution in your view meet i respectful of the process. To the l prosecution in your view meet The Burden Of Proof beyond doubt . In ma; burden of proof beyond doubt . In my view, The Burden Of Proof beyond doubt . In my view. They did burden of proof beyond doubt . In my view, they did. As burden of proof beyond doubt . In my view, they did. As to burden of proof beyond doubt . In my view, they did. As to The Burden Of Proof beyond doubt . In my view, they did. As to the questions as to view, they did. As to the questions as to which view, they did. As to the questions as to which elements of which counts. As to which elements of which counts, they put on a very strong case. Counts, they put on a very strong case. It counts, they put on a very strong case. It was counts, they put on a very strong case. It was difficult for the defence case. It was difficult for the defence to rebut, and so i did not expect defence to rebut, and so i did not expect them to come back after 11 hours expect them to come back after 11 hours i expect them to come back after 11 hours. I mean, i have had Misdemeanor Cases that have taken ionger Misdemeanor Cases that have taken longer for Misdemeanor Cases that have taken longer for deliberation 11 hours, but nonetheless, i think we will see some but nonetheless, i think we will see some version of a guilty verdict depending on what count it is. John, we will talk depending on what count it is. John, we will talk once depending on what count it is. John, we will talk once we depending on what count it is. John, we will talk once we have depending on what count it is. John, we will talk once we have the we will talk once we have the verdict. We will talk about what it means for the police in america and for the justice means for the police in america and for theJustice System in means for the police in america and for the Justice System in america. To our viewers who are justjoining us, again, we are waiting for the jurors now, making their way back to the courtroom in minneapolis and we do have a verdict in the case against Derek Chauvin, the former Police Officer who put his knee on the neck of george floyd for nine minutes and 29 seconds. What happens after the jury has read their verdict . Can you talk us through the Legal Process as somebody who has spent a lot of time in courtrooms . Sure, so the next step will be the judge sure, so the next step will be the judge making the determination. The Attorneys Judge making the determination. The attorneys will be given an opportunity to pull the jurors, saying opportunity to pull the jurors, saying is opportunity to pull the jurors, saying is this your true and correct verdict . Saying is this your true and correct verdict . Eachjuror has to saying is this your true and correct verdict . Each juror has to answer in the affirmative that this is their true and the affirmative that this is their true and correct verdict to in fact validate true and correct verdict to in fact validate the fact that the verdict was unanimous. At that point, the judge was unanimous. At that point, the judge will was unanimous. At that point, the judge will determine when sentencing is going judge will determine when sentencing is going to judge will determine when sentencing is going to occur. In this instance, he will is going to occur. In this instance, he will not is going to occur. In this instance, he will not conduct sentencing that on the he will not conduct sentencing that on the spot because the state has waves. On the spot because the state has waves. The on the spot because the state has waves, the defence has waived its iilht waves, the defence has waived its right to waves, the defence has waived its right to force the jury to consider those right to force the jury to consider those extra factors. Its going to be the those extra factors. Its going to be the judge that makes that determination. So the sentencing will be determination. So the sentencing will be on determination. So the sentencing will be on him, when that happens will be on him, when that happens will be will be on him, when that happens will be up will be on him, when that happens will be up to the judge. Will be up to the udge. John, for the moment. Will be up to the judge. John, for the moment, thank will be up to the judge. John, for the moment, thank you will be up to the judge. John, for the moment, thank you very will be up to the judge. John, for i the moment, thank you very much will be up to the judge. John, for the moment, thank you very much for that. Lets talk now to former federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Cramer i , hes going to talk to us about elements of the verdict. Let me come to the people that we heard from, 38 prosecution witnesses, the defence on the cold seven. We heard from minneapolis officers. We heard the officer who trained him, the police chief, a law professor. They all consistently testified that the use of force was not only excessive and unjustified, but against the training that he had. So without the use of lawful forest, you training that he had. So without the use of lawfulforest, you have training that he had. So without the use of lawful forest, you have a lawful felony assault, dont you . Jeffrey, can you hear me . Lawful felony assault, dont you . Jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive tot ou jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive got you now jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive got you now sorry jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive got you now. Sorry. I jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive got you now. Sorry. Ithink jeffrey, can you hear me . Yeah, ive got you now. Sorry. I think thats got you now. Sorry. I think thats right got you now. Sorry. I think thats right you got you now. Sorry. I think thats right. You do have other charges that could right. You do have other charges that could be brought under the same type of that could be brought under the same type of action, however, not necessary type of action, however, not necessary here. I think that analysis. Necessary here. I think that analysis. necessary here. I think that analysis, i think its something that the analysis, i think its something that the jury goes through in their minds that the jury goes through in their minds with respect to what the Officer Minds with respect to what the officer did here. Ithink minds with respect to what the officer did here. I think thats right officer did here. I think thats ritht. , , officer did here. I think thats ritht. ,. Right. Jeffrey, you are a federal and have been right. Jeffrey, you are a federal and have been a right. Jeffrey, you are a federal and have been a federal right. Jeffrey, you are a federal and have been a federal prosecutor. As we go through those witnesses, were there any particular witnesses from your Point Of View as a former federal prosecutor who really wouldve made an impact on the jury, whether it was the police chief, the cardiologists, the Family Members, the witness, the bystanders, was there anyone in particular you think who will really have resonated with thatjury . I who will really have resonated with that u . Who will really have resonated with that u . ~. , thatjury . I think there were two tieces of thatjury . I think there were two pieces of evidence thatjury . I think there were two pieces of evidence i thatjury . I think there were two pieces of evidence i carried thatjury . I think there were two | pieces of evidence i carried water for the pieces of evidence i carried water for the prosecution or come i thought for the prosecution or come i thought they did an exceptionaljob of putting in a clean case. The first of putting in a clean case. The first was of putting in a clean case. The first was the video, obviously, its impossible first was the video, obviously, its impossible to cross examine a video commit impossible to cross examine a video commit speaks for itself. The second one was commit speaks for itself. The second one was something you just alluded to, one was something you just alluded to. His one was something you just alluded to, his commander, the police chief who testified, and this is extremely unusual. Who testified, and this is extremely unusual, notjust in us cases against unusual, notjust in us cases against Police Officers, and i have prosecuted us, but in other countries prosecuted us, but in other countries where i have advised. Its very unusual countries where i have advised. Its very unusual for one officer to testify very unusual for one officer to testify against another officer. And once that testify against another officer. And once that happens, it was extremely difficult once that happens, it was extremely difficult for once that happens, it was extremely difficult for the defence to then come difficult for the defence to then come forward and may be put on their own experts come forward and may be put on their own experts that would say i use of force own experts that would say i use of force was own experts that would say i use of force was necessary here. So i think that the force was necessary here. So i think that the police chief testifying against that the police chief testifying against one of his own was unusual and very against one of his own was unusual and very powerful. We and very powerful. We have talked privately a lot about eric nelson and what he had and what he worked with. He seemed in no way to spend more time on his Closing Argument yesterday, it went on for two hours, thejudge had to break for lunch to allow the jury to go and have a toilet break. Did he go to long for you . At, and have a toilet break. Did he go to long for you . To long for you . A little bit because to long for you . A little bit because he to long for you . A little bit because he really to long for you . A little bit because he really didnt i to long for you . A little bit l because he really didnt have to long for you . A little bit because he really didnt have a lot to say. Because he really didnt have a lot to say. But because he really didnt have a lot to say, but by the same took us, you couldnt to say, but by the same took us, you couldnt do to say, but by the same took us, you couldnt do a to say, but by the same took us, you couldnt do a 15 minute close, that would couldnt do a 15 minute close, that would be couldnt do a 15 minute close, that would be too short. It was a difficult would be too short. It was a difficult chore for this Defence Lawyer~ difficult chore for this Defence Lawyer. As i say, he couldnt but im lawyer. As i say, he couldnt but im commit lawyer. As i say, he couldnt but im commit will be difficult for him to put im commit will be difficult for him to put on im commit will be difficult for him to put on witnesses that will testify to put on witnesses that will testify that the use of force was proper testify that the use of force was proper here. I think the prosecution boxed proper here. I think the prosecution boxed him proper here. I think the prosecution boxed him in there. There were no factual boxed him in there. There were no factual witnesses that he couldve brought factual witnesses that he couldve brought forward that wouldve helped his client brought forward that wouldve helped his client. It wouldve been very hard his client. It wouldve been very hard for his client. It wouldve been very hard for his his client. It wouldve been very hard for his client to take the stand hard for his client to take the stand so hard for his client to take the stand. So having said that, there wasnt stand. So having said that, there wasnt much that this Defence Lawyer had to wasnt much that this Defence Lawyer had to work wasnt much that this Defence Lawyer had to work with. All he had at the end of had to work with. All he had at the end of the had to work with. All he had at the end of the day was a Closing Argument because he didnt have any facts argument because he didnt have any facts so argument because he didnt have any facts so it argument because he didnt have any facts. So it was difficult for him. Jeffrey. Facts. So it was difficult for him. Jeffrey. As facts. So it was difficult for him. Jeffrey, as you say, you have prosecuted cases in which Police Officers have been on trial, and its extremely unusual for them to be convicted in the us, as they are standing there in this courtroom at the moment waiting for the jurors to come back in, what is going through the minds of the Prosecution Team at the minds of the Prosecution Team at the moment given americas history when it comes to prosecuting Police Officers . When it comes to prosecuting Police Officers . ,. ,. , when it comes to prosecuting Police Officers . ,. ,. When it comes to prosecuting Police Officers . ,. Officers . This was an important case and the prosecutors officers . This was an important case and the prosecutors obviously officers . This was an important case and the prosecutors obviously knew| and the prosecutors obviously knew thats and the prosecutors obviously knew thats because its not a watershed moment. Thats because its not a watershed moment, but this will happen again, but it moment, but this will happen again, but it was moment, but this will happen again, but it was a moment, but this will happen again, but it was a flashpoint. We have seen but it was a flashpoint. We have seen it but it was a flashpoint. We have seen it with politicians talking. We have seen seen it with politicians talking. We have seen it with protest. Weve seen have seen it with protest. Weve seen with have seen it with protest. Weve seen with vandalism. So the prosecution new that the nation, indeed prosecution new that the nation, indeed the world was watching. Having indeed the world was watching. Having said that, i have been in a situation having said that, i have been in a situation that they are in right now. Situation that they are in right now. They situation that they are in right now, they are nervous. Ithink situation that they are in right now, they are nervous. I think they feel pretty now, they are nervous. I think they feel pretty good because this was a quick feel pretty good because this was a quick verdict. It would surprise me if this quick verdict. It would surprise me if this was quick verdict. It would surprise me if this was anything other than a top charge murder conviction. Gk, top charge murder conviction. 0k, jeffrey kramer. Top charge murder conviction. Oi, jeffrey kramer, thank you top charge murder conviction. Oi jeffrey kramer, thank you very much forjoining us. We havejust had four legal experts on the programme, christian, all giving us the same Point Of View, that this was a very quick verdict that the jury reached and according to these four legal experts, they think that that means that we are looking at guilty charges against Derek Chauvin. We will know in the next 15 minutes or so when that jury will know in the next 15 minutes or so when thatjury comes back in and announces their verdict. Lets bring in our correspondent Gary Odonoghue in minneapolis. We have been talking about different responses in the jury about different responses in the jury room, what is happening out there at the streets of the moment and minneapolis, because we know that they have been preparing for the possibility of unrest following this verdict. The possibility of unrest following this verdict this verdict. Yes, this operation has been in this verdict. Yes, this operation has been in place this verdict. Yes, this operation has been in place for this verdict. Yes, this operation has been in place for a this verdict. Yes, this operation has been in place for a number| this verdict. Yes, this operation l has been in place for a number of days has been in place for a number of days now has been in place for a number of days now. We know that something in the order days now. We know that something in the order of days now. We know that something in the order of 3000 National Guard troops the order of 3000 National Guard troops out there ready to be deployed if necessary, another 1100 orso deployed if necessary, another 1100 or so Police Officers draughted in from or so Police Officers draughted in from around the state and elsewhere, the hope. From around the state and elsewhere, the hope. Of from around the state and elsewhere, the hope, of course, is that none of that will the hope, of course, is that none of that will be the hope, of course, is that none of that will be necessary, but i can tell you that will be necessary, but i can tell you that even this morning, walking tell you that even this morning, Walking Around the few blocks that surround Walking Around the few blocks that surround the courthouse here, there were Workmen Outwork nailing up boards were Workmen Outwork nailing up boards against the windows of the stories boards against the windows of the stories and the shops in the immediate surroundings to hear, obviously. Immediate surroundings to hear, obviously, as a progression to what might obviously, as a progression to what might happen in the next few minutes might happen in the next few minutes. So we were told that the judge minutes. So we were told that the judge and minutes. So we were told that the judge and eric nelson the Defence Lawyer judge and eric nelson the Defence Lawyer have now come back to the county lawyer have now come back to the county house here in preparation for those county house here in preparation for those verdicts. Also worth mentioning of course Derek Chauvin has waived mentioning of course Derek Chauvin has waived his right to have the ury has waived his right to have the jury hear has waived his right to have the jury hear these aggravating factors, that will jury hear these aggravating factors, that will be heard by the judge, and the prosecution theyre introducing five extra the prosecution theyre introducing five extra elements where a has to show five extra elements where a has to show beyond reasonable doubt that other things were at play, like the presence other things were at play, like the presence of a child, for example at the scene. Presence of a child, for example at the scene, as a way of upping the potential the scene, as a way of upping the potential sentence if these are guilty potential sentence if these are guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome back guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome back to, guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome back to, but guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome back to, but i guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, we welcome back to, but i want i guilty verdicts that do, and. Gary, | we welcome back to, but i want to bring in hankjohnson who is with us, a Democratic Congress and from georgia who sits on the us house judiciary committee. Angus men, thank you very much for being with us. What are your thoughts right now . ~ ,. ,. , us. What are your thoughts right now . ~ ,. ,. , us. What are your thoughts right now . ~ i,. , , us. What are your thoughts right now . ~ ,. , us. What are your thoughts right now . ,. , now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict. Now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict the now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict thejury now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict. The jury just now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict. The jury just went now . Well, you know, this is a quick verdict. The juryjust went into verdict. The juryjust went into deliberations about this time yesterday. So based on my experience, having been a criminal defence experience, having been a criminal Defence Lawyer for 27 years before coming Defence Lawyer for 27 years before coming to Defence Lawyer for 27 years before coming to congress, i viewed this quick coming to congress, i viewed this quick verdict as a sign that the prosecution has proven its case Beyond Prosecution has proven its case beyond A Prosecution has proven its case Beyond A Reasonable Doubt on all three Beyond A Reasonable Doubt on all three charges, starting with Second Degree three charges, starting with Second Degree murder, third Degree Murder and then Degree Murder, third Degree Murder and then Second Degree manslaughter. So, and then Second Degree manslaughter. So. Frankly. And then Second Degree manslaughter. So, frankly, im expecting a verdict of guilty so, frankly, im expecting a verdict of guilty to so, frankly, im expecting a verdict of guilty to be announced. And havint of guilty to be announced. And having been of guilty to be announced. Jinn. Having been through trials of guilty to be announced. Elic having been through trials like this before in america and having watched Police Acquitted in cases of brutality against African American men in this country, what are your emotions at the moment . Are you nervous, you anxious, what are you feeling as we wait for this verdict . I am feeling confident, but in the back i am feeling confident, but in the back of i am feeling confident, but in the back of my i am feeling confident, but in the back of my mind, im feeling frightened of what would happen if after a frightened of what would happen if after a quick verdict the verdict turns after a quick verdict the verdict turns out after a quick verdict the verdict turns out to be an acquittal. That would turns out to be an acquittal. That would be turns out to be an acquittal. That would be almost inconceivable to me, but it would be almost inconceivable to me, but it is would be almost inconceivable to me, but it is a would be almost inconceivable to me, but it is a fear that lurks in the back but it is a fear that lurks in the back of but it is a fear that lurks in the back of my but it is a fear that lurks in the back of my mind and i would hate to think back of my mind and i would hate to think what back of my mind and i would hate to think what would happen if that should think what would happen if that should happen, if that result should occur~ should happen, if that result should occur~ i should happen, if that result should occur. I dont even want to go there. Occur. I dont even want to go there. , occur. I dont even want to go there. , ,. Occur. I dont even want to go there. ,. , there. Yeah. Congressman, if Derek Chauvin is found there. Yeah. Congressman, if Derek Chauvin is found guilty there. Yeah. Congressman, if Derek Chauvin is found guilty of there. Yeah. Congressman, if Derek Chauvin is found guilty of the chauvin is found guilty of the murder of george floyd, what changes in this country . In this country . Well, i think it will show in this country . Well, i think it will show that in this country . Well, i think it will show that the in this country . Well, i think it will show that the country in this country . Well, i think it will show that the country has| in this country . Well, i think it will show that the country has moved away from will show that the country has moved away from a will show that the country has moved away from a culture where police are always away from a culture where police are always acquitted as they were in rodney always acquitted as they were in rodney king and so many other cases that have rodney king and so many other cases that have been tried, even cases with video. That have been tried, even cases with video, and you see that the results with video, and you see that the results when there is a white person and a results when there is a white person and a Police Results when there is a white person and a Police Officer in particular accused and a Police Officer in particular accused on and a Police Officer in particular accused on trial for Killing A Black Male accused on trial for Killing A Black Male or accused on trial for Killing A Black Male or a accused on trial for Killing A Black Male or a black person is acquitted. We have male or a black person is acquitted. We have seen that happen in so many times. We have seen that happen in so many times. And we have seen that happen in so many times. And if we have seen that happen in so many times, and if this case does not results times, and if this case does not results like times, and if this case does not results like many of the others have. Results like many of the others have, then it will show that the system have, then it will show that the system is have, then it will show that the system is Working Forjustice For Black System is working forjustice for black people in america. When black people in america. When you look at what has happened in just the last two weeks, really, we have had the shooting of the 13 year old boy, adam toledo in chicago, the Virginia Second Life tended to was stopped by police in virginia, we have at the shooting of donte wright just outside donte wrightjust outside minneapolis, donte wright just outside minneapolis, very close to where the trial is going on. Daunte right. Can you really say that a guilty verdict or will change the Picture Policing across the country . I think it will cause policing across the country . I think it will cause Police Policing across the country . I think it will cause Police Officers policing across the country . I think it will cause Police Officers across l it will cause Police Officers across the country, if there is a conviction to think twice before they conviction to think twice before they pull conviction to think twice before they pull that trigger, to think twice they pull that trigger, to think twice before they use Excessive Force twice before they use Excessive Force against unarmed black people in their force against unarmed black people in their custody. Sol force against unarmed black people in their custody. So i think this will come in their custody. So i think this will come a in their custody. So i think this will come a guilty verdict in this case will come a guilty verdict in this case will will come a guilty verdict in this case will serve numerous purposes. It case will serve numerous purposes. It will case will serve numerous purposes. It will enhance confidence in the justice it will enhance confidence in the Justice System in america. It will also send Justice System in america. It will also send a Justice System in america. It will also send a message to the Police Officers also send a message to the Police Officers that they can be held accountable, they can and will be held accountable when they violate the civil held accountable when they violate the Civil Liberties of people and when the Civil Liberties of people and when they take lives unnecessarily. We are when they take lives unnecessarily. We are told when they take lives unnecessarily. We are told the president will make a National Dress after the verdict has come in. Where does this go in congress in terms of the debate, about defunding police, retraining police, what needs to happen next in terms of legislation . Terms of legislation . Well, Front And Centre terms of legislation . Well, Front And Centre In terms of legislation . Well, Front And Centre In Congress Terms of legislation . Well, Front And Centre In congress is terms of legislation . Well, Front And Centre In congress is the and centre in congress is the passage and centre in congress is the passage of the George Floyd Justice in policing act which has passed the house in policing act which has passed the House Of In Policing Act which has passed the house of representatives, the lower house house of representatives, the lower house and house of representatives, the lower house and now it is in the upper chamber. House and now it is in the upper chamber, the senate, where it is kind of chamber, the senate, where it is kind of stuck because of a parliamentary procedure known as the filibuster. Parliamentary procedure known as the filibuster, which requires 60 votes in order filibuster, which requires 60 votes in order to filibuster, which requires 60 votes in order to move an item to the floor in order to move an item to the floor for in order to move an item to the floor for consideration. In order to move an item to the floor for consideration. What would that bill do . Floor for consideration. What would that bill do . This floor for consideration. What would that bill do . This Filibuster Floor for consideration. What would that bill do . This Filibuster Reform l that bill do . This Filibuster Reform is a to. Ic that bill do . This Filibuster Reform is a topic is that bill do . This Filibuster Reform is a topic is happening that bill do . This Filibuster Reform is a topic is happening in that bill do . This Filibuster Reform is a topic is happening in america | is a topic is happening in america throughout is a topic is happening in america throughout america right now, whether throughout america right now, whether or not that is an undemocratic process that results in a lot of undemocratic process that results in a lot of good legislation like the george a lot of good legislation like the George Floyd Justice in policing act. �. , George Floyd Justice in policing act. � ,. , �. Act. But the George Floyd Bill, what would that actually act. But the George Floyd Bill, what would that actually change . Act. But the George Floyd Bill, what would that actually change . Well, l would that actually change . Well, one of the things would that actually change . Well, one of the things it would that actually change . Well, one of the things it would would that actually change . Well, one of the things it would do would that actually change . Well, one of the things it would do is i would that actually change . Well, one of the things it would do is to ban the one of the things it would do is to ban the use one of the things it would do is to ban the use of choke holds and carotid ban the use of choke holds and Carotid Artery holds such as the one that george floyd was killed, it wasnt that george floyd was killed, it wasnt a that george floyd was killed, it wasnt a chokehold, but yet he was choked wasnt a chokehold, but yet he was choked to wasnt a chokehold, but yet he was choked to death. At the George Floyd Justice choked to death. At the George Floyd Justice in choked to death. At the George Floyd Justice in policing would band those kinds justice in policing would band those kinds of justice in policing would band those kinds of moves by police to cut off the air kinds of moves by police to cut off the air supply to subdue someone. A number the air supply to subdue someone. A number of the air supply to subdue someone. A number of other things, the air supply to subdue someone. A number of otherthings, banning no knock number of otherthings, banning no knock search warrants, making sure that the knock search warrants, making sure that the civil knock search warrants, making sure that the civil rights laws under which that the civil rights laws under which Police Officers are prosecuted are reformed so as to make it a little are reformed so as to make it a little easier to convict Police Officers little easier to convict Police Officers and also removing what is called officers and also removing what is called limited immunity from officers called limited immunity from officers from being sued and held accountable in the civil courts for Abusing Accountable in the civil courts for abusing their office. So a number of provisions abusing their office. So a number of provisions in abusing their office. So a number of provisions in that act that would help to provisions in that act that would help to alleviate the scorch of produce Police Brutality in america produce Police Brutality in america produce Police Brutality in america. ,. ,. ,. , america. Congressman hankjohnson, democrat from america. Congressman hankjohnson, democrat from georgia, america. Congressman hankjohnson, democrat from georgia, thank america. Congressman hankjohnson, democrat from georgia, thank you democrat from georgia, thank you very much forjoining the programme. Think you. Thank you. 0k, ok, lets go to cambridge, massachusetts, we arejoined by doctor go to cambridge, massachusetts, we are joined by doctor cornell west, professor for political activist who joins us. Thank you, doctor west for joining the programme. I went to pick up on what we were talking about there with the congressman, congressmanjohnson, and we are in the slightly strange position because we are waiting for the jurors to deliver their verdict. We have had legal experts on the programme whose age was that they think this means there is a unanimous verdict and that they think that means there is a unanimous verdict of guilty, but we should give us a caveat that we are still waiting for the verdict. What do you think changes if anything in policing in america as a result of this trial in minneapolis. I policing in america as a result of this trial in minneapolis. This trial in minneapolis. I think its ttoin this trial in minneapolis. I think its going to this trial in minneapolis. I think its going to take this trial in minneapolis. I think its going to take more this trial in minneapolis. I think its going to take more than this trial in minneapolis. I think| its going to take more than one conviction its going to take more than one conviction to change policing, but certainly conviction to change policing, but certainly It Conviction to change policing, but certainly it is and move in the right certainly it is and move in the right direction. If there is a conviction, then that means weve ot conviction, then that means weve got to conviction, then that means weve got to move towards hundreds of others got to move towards hundreds of others because this is a peak of an iceberg. Others because this is a peak of an iceberg, you see, thats White Supremacy is systemic and chronic throughout supremacy is systemic and chronic throughout the policing system. We should throughout the policing system. We should note now it affects poor and working class people who are not black working class people who are not black as working class people who are not black as well, but its disproportionately chocolate, its disproportionately chocolate, its disproportionately black and brown. So i disproportionately black and brown. So i do disproportionately black and brown. So i do think that it is important to acknowledge that this is a step, but this to acknowledge that this is a step, but this is to acknowledge that this is a step, but this is going to be one step if this is but this is going to be one step if this is a but this is going to be one step if this is a conviction. We have hundreds this is a conviction. We have hundreds to go, and we need a fundamental transformation of policing. Fundamental transformation of policing, and it is still an open question policing, and it is still an open question as to whether the Criminal Justice question as to whether the criminal Justice System in america is even reform Justice System in america is even reform a Justice System in america is even Reform A Bull in a way that it needs to be Reform A Bull in a way that it needs to be it Reform A Bull in a way that it needs to be. It could be thatjust certain structural to be. It could be thatjust certain structural limits to the capacity of america structural limits to the capacity of america to structural limits to the capacity of america to come to terms with White Supremacy. America to come to terms with White Supremacy, notjust in policing, but in business. Supremacy, notjust in policing, but in business, and true across the board in business, and true across the board l in business, and true across the board. , in business, and true across the board. ,. , board. I mean, even since this trial, as christians board. I mean, even since this trial, as christians at board. I mean, even since this trial, as christians at earlier, l board. I mean, even since this i trial, as christians at earlier, has been going on, we have had the death of Daunte Wright, adam toledo, we have had Lieutenant News Reo who was picked up in virginia and pepper sprayed, done absolutely nothing wrong. In his uniform . , in his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform. In his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform, and in his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform, and he in his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform, and he did in his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform, and he did all in his uniform in his uniform, in his uniform, and he did all the l his uniform, and he did all the right things. So how does the message go from this verdict in minneapolis and filtering down through pleased permits all across the country that there is a price to pay about using brutality against black and brown people in the country. Does itjust happened because Derek Chauvin, if he gets sent to prison for a long time, Police Officers have decided they are not going to do that . How does it have to happen . Keep are not going to do that . How does it have to happen . Are not going to do that . How does it have to happen . Keep in mind, my dear sister. It have to happen . Keep in mind, my dear sister, its it have to happen . Keep in mind, my dear sister, its not it have to happen . Keep in mind, my dear sister, its not just it have to happen . Keep in mind, my dear sister, its notjust the dear sister, its Notjust The Police dear sister, its Notjust The Police. Were talking about the criminal police. Were talking about the criminalJustice System as a whole. Were criminalJustice System as a whole. Were talking about judges. CriminalJustice System as a whole. Were talking aboutjudges. Were talking were talking aboutjudges. Were talking about prosecutors, and we are talking about fellow citizens on the jury. Are talking about fellow citizens on the jury, you see . And White Supremacy cuts deep on the jury, than Supremacy Cuts deep on the jury, than they Supremacy Cuts deep on the jury, than they can look at evidence and not see than they can look at evidence and not see it than they can look at evidence and not see it because we have seen that in the not see it because we have seen that in the history of the country. 0nce in the history of the country. Once you believe in the history of the country. Once you believe that black people are less intelligent, less beautiful, less intelligent, less beautiful, less moral, than therefore, the. Their less moral, than therefore, the. Their lives less moral, than therefore, the. Their lives have less worth and you can look their lives have less worth and you can look at their lives have less worth and you can look at the same evidence and draw can look at the same evidence and draw a can look at the same evidence and draw a different conclusion than you and i draw a different conclusion than you and i would draw a different conclusion than you and i would drop the musee . So when we are and i would drop the musee . So when we are talking about racism, its notjust we are talking about racism, its notjust a we are talking about racism, its notjust a matter of we are talking about racism, its not just a matter of the police, we are talking about racism, its notjust a matter of the police, we dont notjust a matter of the police, we dont want notjust a matter of the police, we dont want to project the idea that somehow dont want to project the idea that somehow the police are some autonomous unit that if they get their autonomous unit that if they get their Act Autonomous unit that if they get their act together, then lo and behold. Their act together, then lo and behold, there would be less brutalising of black people across the Board Brutalising of black people across the board in terms of Notjust Treatment but conviction. You have to Deal Treatment but conviction. You have to deal with treatment but conviction. You have to deal with the fellow citizens on the jury to deal with the fellow citizens on the jury. Thats a problem within the jury. Thats a problem within the history the jury. Thats a problem within the history of the country stop your doctor the history of the country stop your doctor west, as we are talking to, we will doctor west, as we are talking to, we will remind viewers that are draining we will remind viewers that are draining is we will remind viewers that are draining is that we are waiting for a Verdict Draining is that we are waiting for a verdict in draining is that we are waiting for a verdi. ,. A verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we can a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we can see a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we can see at a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we can see at the a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, all we can see at the moment is the seal of the minneapolis courts, and of course, as that camera zooms out, and shows as the courtroom, and The Jury Retake the seats, we will take you to the courtroom to hear that verdict alive, doctorwest courtroom to hear that verdict alive, doctor west and i want to pick up on an issue you were talking about. Your question about whether policing is even able to be reformed, white thoughts, because yesterday the prosecution in their summing said this is a pro police trial, this is not a trial of the American Police force, this is a trial against one bad cop. There are thousands of policemen in america who do it properly, arent there . Properly, arent there . Well, it deends properly, arent there . Well, it depends on properly, arent there . Well, it depends on what properly, arent there . Well, it depends on what we properly, arent there . Well, it depends on what we mean properly, arent there . Well, it depends on what we mean by l properly, arent there . Well, it. Depends on what we mean by do properly, arent there . Well, it depends on what we mean by do it, my brother~ depends on what we mean by do it, my brother~ you depends on what we mean by do it, my brother. You see, if the function and role brother. You see, if the function and role of brother. You see, if the function and role of the police is to protect and role of the police is to protect and serve and role of the police is to protect and serve equally across gender and race. And serve equally across gender and race. Than and serve equally across gender and race, than they are doing it properly. Race, than they are doing it properly. If there are to attain, circumscribe and suppress certain areas circumscribe and suppress certain areas Poor Circumscribe and suppress certain areas poor black people, poor brown people. Areas poor black people, poor brown people, including poor white people, are disproportionately just proportioning more black and white, then you proportioning more black and white, then you have a class question committed is to say that the attempts to make sure that they dont attempts to make sure that they dont go attempts to make sure that they dont go to other neighbourhoods where dont go to other neighbourhoods where there are upper middle class, upperclass where there are upper middle class, upper class people, and therefore to suppress upper class people, and therefore to suppress them in any way you can to contain suppress them in any way you can to contain them in any way you can, that has contain them in any way you can, that has been business as usual. That that has been business as usual. That has that has been business as usual. That has been the norm. That is routine that has been the norm. That is routine and that has been the norm. That is routine and how policing has functioned decade after decade after decade. Functioned decade after decade after decade, and so when we say there are ood decade, and so when we say there are good police decade, and so when we say there are good police who do theirjob well, absolutely, there are going to be good absolutely, there are going to be good people wherever, there are good people good people wherever, there are good people at good people wherever, there are good people at two universities come good people people at two universities come good people in people at two universities come good people in the press, but then what is the people in the press, but then what is the function from of the fundamental function of the press, the fundamental function of the university, fundamental function of the police . 50 university, fundamental function of the tolice . � , university, fundamental function of the olice . , � ,. , the police . So you are saying its a s stemic the police . So you are saying its a systemic issue the police . So you are saying its a systemic issue and the police . So you are saying its a systemic issue and its the police . So you are saying its a systemic issue and its the the police . So you are saying its a systemic issue and its the police l systemic issue and its the police force, perse, the systemic issue and its the police force, per se, the way that the forces formed on the way that it is targeted. Forces formed on the way that it is tarteted. ~ ,. Targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we all targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we all know targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we all know that targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we all know that the targeted. Absolutely. Very much so because we all know that the police j because we all know that the police would because we all know that the police would never treat precious vanilla brothers would never treat precious vanilla Brothers And Sisters who are upper middle class or upper class in the same upper middle class or upper class in the same way they would precious chocolate the same way they would precious chocolate Brothers And Sisters or and poor~ chocolate Brothers And Sisters or and poor. So that you can see. We sort and poor. So that you can see. We sort of and poor. So that you can see. We sort of saw that in the Daunte Wright shooting, didnt we . It went from zero to 100 mph in a very short space of time. From zero to 100 mph in a very short space of time space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. Space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. And space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. And we space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. And we see space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. And we see examples space of time. Thats right. Absolutely. And we see examples when you see absolutely. And we see examples when you see White Brothers who can kill a number you see White Brothers who can kill a number of you see White Brothers who can kill a number of folk in black churches and they a number of folk in black churches and they drop them off with hamburgers and take him home. I mean. Hamburgers and take him home. I mean. You hamburgers and take him home. I mean, you know, its very clear at that point mean, you know, its very clear at that point how the white supremacist differential treatments both based on race differential treatments both based on race but also based on class, because on race but also based on class, because if on race but also based on class, because if in fact you have some upper because if in fact you have some upper black folk, upper class black folk, upper black folk, upper class black folk. They upper black folk, upper class black folk, they would still be treated slightly folk, they would still be treated slightly different than the black poor. Slightly different than the black poor, but the racism cut so deep in the police poor, but the racism cut so deep in the Police Department that even, you know. The Police Department that even, you know, persons like myself would still be know, persons like myself would still be shut down any minute, tomorrow still be shut down any minute, tomorrow in my car, thats what it is to tomorrow in my car, thats what it is to be tomorrow in my car, thats what it is to be black in america. Is to be black in america. Doctor cornell west is to be black in america. Doctor cornell west joining is to be black in america. Doctor cornell west joining us is to be black in america. Doctor cornell west joining us theyre l is to be black in america. Doctor. Cornell west joining us theyre from Cornell Westjoining us theyre from cambridge, massachusetts. Thank you very much, doctor west, forjoining the programme. You very much, doctor west, forjoining the programme. Half past four here on the United States was up at half past three in minneapolis. Any moment now we are being told by the courts that the court room will be open, the jurors will be in there, were looking there at the steel delete next seal at the state of minnesota. We will get that verdict from the 12 members of the jury verdict from the 12 members of the jury and the murder trial of Derek Chauvin. Theirformer police jury and the murder trial of Derek Chauvin. Their former Police Officer accused of killing george floyd last may. Lets speak to Professor Rachel paul osey from the university of St Thomas School of law. Professor paulose served as United States attorney for the district of minnesota. You are there in minneapolis, it is a small town, im sure you are not very far away from the courtroom. What are you thinking right now as you watch and wait for this verdict . Given the speed with which this jury has come given the speed with which this jury has come to a unanimous verdict i think has come to a unanimous verdict i think i has come to a unanimous verdict i think i can has come to a unanimous verdict i think i can only mean monthly which is that think i can only mean monthly which is that the think i can only mean monthly which is that the jury has decided to convict is that the jury has decided to convict Derek Chauvin of one or more charges convict Derek Chauvin of one or more charges the convict Derek Chauvin of one or more charges. The only question in my mind charges. The only question in my mind is charges. The only question in my mind is how charges. The only question in my mind is how they decided to convict him of mind is how they decided to convict him of all mind is how they decided to convict him of all charges or will they choose him of all charges or will they choose one or more of the various options choose one or more of the various options which the government presented to them given that they are competing theories here derek show are competing theories here derek show vince gill . Show vince gill . Minneapolis has been the centre show vince gill . Minneapolis has been the Centre Of Show vince gill . Minneapolis has been the Centre Of Attention show vince gill . Minneapolis has| been the Centre Of Attention since last may when george floyd was killed. The minneapolis Police Department has been the Centre Of Attention, with accusations or form accusations of brutality as well. How much will this verdict if there is even one guilty verdict change the city Police Department, change Race Relations in your city . I the city Police Department, change Race Relations in your city . Race relations in your city . I hope that this verdict Race Relations in your city . I hope that this verdict will Race Relations in your city . I hope that this verdict will send Race Relations in your city . I hope that this verdict will send a that this verdict will send a message to Law Enforcement that we all understand they have a very difficult all understand they have a very difficultjob. But life or death decisions do not need to be made over Traffic Decisions do not need to be made over traffic stops, over 20 counterfeit bills, over minor misdemeanors. An sanctity of life of citizens misdemeanors. An sanctity of life of citizens also needs to be respected. I citizens also needs to be respected. I also citizens also needs to be respected. I also Hope Citizens also needs to be respected. I also hope that if this is a guilty verdict. I also hope that if this is a guilty verdict. As i also hope that if this is a guilty verdict, as were all expecting on at least verdict, as were all expecting on at least one verdict, as were all expecting on at least one count, that the message reverberates beyond minneapolis. And throughout the United States because we have throughout the United States because we have not had many Police Officers convicted we have not had many Police Officers convicted of we have not had many Police Officers convicted of killing people of colour convicted of killing people of colour in convicted of killing people of colour in their custody. And never have colour in their custody. And never have we colour in their custody. And never have we had colour in their custody. And never have we had in minnesota a caucasian officer have we had in minnesota a caucasian officer convicted of killing an African American man in custody. So whatever African American man in custody. So whatever this verdict is, it will send whatever this verdict is, it will send a whatever this verdict is, it will send a message, Notjust To Minneapolis but to the United States minneapolis but to the United States. ~. , minneapolis but to the United States. Minneapolis but to the United States. L. States. We are almost upon the moment when states. We are almost upon the moment when we states. We are almost upon the moment when we will states. We are almost upon the moment when we will get states. We are almost upon the moment when we will get the i states. We are almost upon the moment when we will get the verdict. We are looking live at these pictures in the courtroom. I want you to give our viewers if you would a rundown of how this is now going to unfold. There are three charges, presumably they will come to the most serious charge ist. Will they not . Most serious charge 1st. Will they not . ,. , not . The Second Degree murder. Yes, we will know not . The Second Degree murder. Yes, we will know when not . The Second Degree murder. Yes, we will know when the not . The Second Degree murder. Yes, we will know when the jury not . The Second Degree murder. Yes, we will know when the jury walks we will know when the jury walks into the we will know when the jury walks into the room whom they selected as they are into the room whom they selected as they are 4 person. That in and alone could they are 4 person. That in and alone could tell they are 4 person. That in and alone could tell us they are 4 person. That in and alone could tell us something based on the identity could tell us something based on the identity of could tell us something based on the identity of that person. And then we will know identity of that person. And then we will know how they voted on the charge will know how they voted on the charge of will know how they voted on the charge of Second Degree murder, also knows charge of Second Degree murder, also knows the charge of Second Degree murder, also knows the guy known as Felony Murderl knows the guy known as felony murder. Third Degree Murder, also known murder. Third Degree Murder, also known as murder. Third Degree Murder, also known as depraved heart murder. And in violent known as depraved heart murder. And in violent telling that Involuntary Manslaughter which is also known as a reckless manslaughter which is also known as a reckless killing without regard for human life. A reckless killing without regard for human life. Right. So the udge will read out for human life. Right. So the udge will read out the i for human life. Right. So the udge will read out the charge h for human life. Right. So the udge will read out the charge won h for human life. Right. So thejudge will read out the charge won by for human life. Right. So thejudge| will read out the charge won by one and the foreman will give a verdict on each of those charges. If he is guilty on the most serious charge, will they even go to the other two . Yes, they will. Because he still has a right yes, they will. Because he still has a right to yes, they will. Because he still has a right to appeal on any or all counts a right to appeal on any or all counts. And so it is important for us to counts. And so it is important for us to hear counts. And so it is important for us to hear the juries verdict as to all three us to hear the juries verdict as to all three counts. And all three will be read all three counts. And all three will be read out all three counts. And all three will be read out loud in court today. Is be read out loud in court today. [s it. Be read out loud in court today. Is it. Wh be read out loud in court today. Is it why does be read out loud in court today. Is it. Why does the be read out loud in court today. Is it. Why does the choice be read out loud in court today. Is it. Why does the choice of be read out loud in court today. Is it. Why does the choice of the i it. Why does the choice of the foreperson it. Why does the choice of the foreperson tell it. Why does the choice of the foreperson tell us it. Why does the choice of the foreperson tell us something . L it. Why does the choice of the i foreperson tell us something . We know that there were people of kava to the know that there were people of kava to the neck know that there were people of kava to the neck collar on this jury. We know to the neck collar on this jury. We know some to the neck collar on this jury. We know some have expressed strong views know some have expressed strong views know some have expressed strong views people of color. We know that the views people of color. We know that the its views people of color. We know that the its explicitly invoking racial that the its explicitly invoking racial stereotypes throughout this trial racial stereotypes throughout this trial so racial stereotypes throughout this trial. So the identity of the foreperson will tell us whom this Ury Foreperson will tell us whom this jury has foreperson will tell us whom this jury has selected as their leader in Convening Jury has selected as their leader in convening the discussions and announcing this verdict. And then what happens announcing this verdict. And then what happens in announcing this verdict. And then what happens in terms announcing this verdict. And then what happens in terms of announcing this verdict. And then what happens in terms of the what happens in terms of the choreography of the courtroomat the jury choreography of the courtroomat the jury announces its verdict and then what do we understand it can happen over the next half hour or so after that . ,. , ~. , that . Then the udge need to make a decision as to that . Then the judge need to make a decision as to whether that . Then the judge need to make a decision as to whether or that . Then the judge need to make a decision as to whether or not that . Then the judge need to make a decision as to whether or not hes i decision as to whether or not hes going decision as to whether or not hes going to decision as to whether or not hes going to order mr chauvin to be taken going to order mr chauvin to be taken into going to order mr chauvin to be taken into custody immediately, assuming taken into custody immediately, assuming theres a guilty verdict. And if assuming theres a guilty verdict. And if there is an acquittal on all three and if there is an acquittal on all three charges of course mr chauvin will be three charges of course mr chauvin will be allowed to be released on his own will be allowed to be released on his own recognisance from the courtroom. Sentencing and other posttrial courtroom. Sentencing and other posttrial issues will not take place for many posttrial issues will not take place for many weeks, if not months. Assuming for many weeks, if not months. Assuming that there is a guilty verdict assuming that there is a guilty verdict in assuming that there is a guilty verdict in this case. So today the mechanics verdict in this case. So today the mechanics of what we should expect is simply mechanics of what we should expect is simply the reading of the jerrys verdict is simply the reading of the jerrys verdict in is simply the reading of the jerrys verdict in this case. Verdict in this case. Briefly, if he is found guilty verdict in this case. Briefly, if he is found guilty would verdict in this case. Briefly, if he is found guilty would you verdict in this case. Briefly, if he is found guilty would you expect| verdict in this case. Briefly, if he is found guilty would you expect him to be remanded immediately in custody or would it be more normal for him to be released awaiting sentencing . Ii for him to be released awaiting sentencing . For him to be released awaiting sentencing . If he is convicted of murder, sentencing . If he is convicted of murder. Given sentencing . If he is convicted of murder, given that sentencing . If he is convicted of murder, given that heat sentencing . If he is convicted of murder, given that heat may i sentencing . If he is convicted of murder, given that heat may be | sentencing . If he is convicted of. Murder, given that heat may be a flight murder, given that heat may be a flight risk. Murder, given that heat may be a flight risk. I murder, given that heat may be a flight risk, i would expect the state flight risk, i would expect the state to flight risk, i would expect the state to ask the judge to make a motion state to ask the judge to make a motion that he immediately be taken into state motion that he immediately be taken into state custody. Perhaps in part for his into state custody. Perhaps in part for his own into state custody. Perhaps in part for his own protection, given the strong for his own protection, given the strong emotions this case has stirredl strong emotions this case has stirred. L. Strong emotions this case has stirred. L. ~ ,. , strong emotions this case has stirred. ,. ,. , stirred. Thank you very much for that. Stirred. Thank you very much for that lets stirred. Thank you very much for that. Lets get stirred. Thank you very much for that. Lets get back stirred. Thank you very much for that. Lets get back to stirred. Thank you very much for that. Lets get back to gary donahue who is outside the courthouse for us. The people weve not spoken about art the people on the last hour is the family. And this is a really important moment for them. Goodness knows whats going through their minds right now. Do we know what the floyd family is and what could happen to them over the next hour or so . We and what could happen to them over the next hour or so . The next hour or so . We know that the next hour or so . We know that the are the next hour or so . We know that they are expected the next hour or so . We know that they are expected to the next hour or so . We know that they are expected to make the next hour or so . We know that they are expected to make some l the next hour or so . We know that i they are expected to make some kind of statement, possibly from the court of statement, possibly from the court itself. The judge certainly made court itself. The judge certainly made provision for that. The attorney made provision for that. The Attorney General of minnesota will do that Attorney General of minnesota will do that. We are told the family have the opportunity to do that as well. Of the opportunity to do that as well. Of course. The opportunity to do that as well. Of course, they have been on the of course, they have been on the phone of course, they have been on the phone to of course, they have been on the phone to President Biden as well. Theyve phone to President Biden as well. Theyve had a busy time. While this is a moment theyve had a busy time. While this is a moment in American History this is a moment in American History this is all is a moment in American History this is all of is a moment in American History this is all of course a private moment for them is all of course a private moment for them very much. Some protesters have gathered, they were just chanting have gathered, they were just chanting a moment ago. Protesters gathered chanting a moment ago. Protesters gathered here. We understand that everyone gathered here. We understand that everyone inside the courtroom now except everyone inside the courtroom now except the everyone inside the courtroom now except the judge. So we are just waiting except the judge. So we are just waiting on except the judge. So we are just waiting on the judge to take his place waiting on the judge to take his place inside the court for the reading place inside the court for the reading of that verdict. Will place inside the court for the reading of that verdict. Will show ou reading of that verdict. Will show you pictures reading of that verdict. Will show you pictures from reading of that verdict. Will show you pictures from the reading of that verdict. Will show you pictures from the courtroom | reading of that verdict. Will show you pictures from the courtroom and side as well. All we can see is the seal behind Thejudges Side as well. All we can see is the seal behind the judges desk. Side as well. All we can see is the seal behind thejudges desk. Can side as well. All we can see is the seal behind the judges desk. Can we talk about the sort of man he was . We should focus a little bit on george floyd. I was struck myself through the trial about what a real hard luck story this was. A man who got addicted to opioids because he had back bad back full stop he was a Security Guard outside the Salvation Army he had a number of relationships which didnt seem to have gone anywhere. And then the death of his mother which really did seem to affect him quite badly. Yeah, he had come to minneapolis of course yeah, he had come to minneapolis of course to yeah, he had come to minneapolis of course to try yeah, he had come to minneapolis of course to try and make a fresh start course to try and make a fresh start that course to try and make a fresh start. That was the point of moving from start. That was the point of moving from texas start. That was the point of moving from texas up to minneapolis to try and make from texas up to minneapolis to try and make that fresh start. Continued obviously and make that fresh start. Continued obviously to struggle with his opioid obviously to struggle with his opioid addiction. As so many millions opioid addiction. As so many millions of americans do. Of course these millions of americans do. Of course these Prescription Drugs that were handed these Prescription Drugs that were handed out to people that got them home. Handed out to people that got them home. Got handed out to people that got them home, got them addicted and eventually got them also involved in street eventually got them also involved in street drugs as well when they couldnt street drugs as well when they couldnt get a hold of the prescription version. It is an american prescription version. It is an american tragedy in that way as well american tragedy in that way as Well 0f American Tragedy in that way as well. Of course, in later years they talked well. Of course, in later years they talked about him is having come down a lot from talked about him is having come down a lot from his earlier life. He was in his a lot from his earlier life. He was in his mid 40s, he had a pretty steady in his mid 40s, he had a pretty steady girlfriend whom we saw testify steady girlfriend whom we saw testify at this trial as well. And he was testify at this trial as well. And he was holding down a job. He had a ob he was holding down a job. He had a job at he was holding down a job. He had a job at the he was holding down a job. He had a job at the Salvation Army as a security job at the Salvation Army as a Security Guard. Still struggling with his Security Guard. Still struggling with his demons, of course. But generally with his demons, of course. But generally trying to move on with his life as generally trying to move on with his life as we generally trying to move on with his life as we understand. Trying to take life as we understand. Trying to take some life as we understand. Trying to take some responsibility for his children take some responsibility for his children that he had to. It was a sort children that he had to. It was a sort of children that he had to. It was a sort of Life Children that he had to. It was a sort of life cut short in so many ways sort of life cut short in so many ways because of all those responsibilities, those attempts he was trying responsibilities, those attempts he was trying to make to get his life back on was trying to make to get his life back on track before it was snuffed out on back on track before it was snuffed out on that back on track before it was snuffed out on that day on memorial day last yearl out on that day on memorial day last yearl youll out on that day on memorial day last year. Youll probably hear the crowd chanting. Year. Youll probably hear the crowd chanting, the blm sign as well going up chanting, the blm sign as well going up for chanting, the blm sign as well going up for many people here. Some choppers up for many people here. Some choppers overhead, the city really gearing choppers overhead, the city really gearing up choppers overhead, the city really gearing up to wait to hear what the ury gearing up to wait to hear what the jury has gearing up to wait to hear what the jury has to gearing up to wait to hear what the jury has to say, what the judge has to say jury has to say, what the udge has to sa. , jury has to say, what the udge has tosa. , �. , jury has to say, what the udge has tosa. ,. , to say. Gary odonoghue outside the courtroom to say. Gary odonoghue outside the courtroom. Thank to say. Gary odonoghue outside the courtroom. Thank you to say. Gary odonoghue outside the courtroom. Thank you very to say. Gary odonoghue outside the courtroom. Thank you very much. I to say. Gary odonoghue outside the | courtroom. Thank you very much. We can see pictures of the crowd starting to gather. We were told about in our ago that the jury had reached its verdict. And that we would be hearing that verdict as soon as they get into the courtroom and as soon, as gary was saying waiting for thejudge to and as soon, as gary was saying waiting for the judge to get into the courtroom. As soon as the judges in the courtroom we will learn as well but that verdict is. Lets go to our correspondent larry madowo who is in george floyd square, the square named after george in minneapolis. We can see cup foods behind you and that is the spot where george floyd breathed his last breath and so much focus and attention has been On Minneapolis and on that city. Its unrealistic though, is it for people to think that this one trial, even though it is gripped this country and gripped the world is going to be the reason that the American Police force suddenly reforms and we dont get another situation in the killing george floyd like we saw last may . You cant put that much weight of injustice on one trial. Injustice on one trial. Thats correct injustice on one trial. Thats correct. One injustice on one trial. Thats correct. One trial injustice on one trial. Thats correct. One trial however. Correct. 0ne trial however important, however high profile would important, however high profile would not change all of the issues that black would not change all of the issues that black america has with policing that black america has with policing. This is where george floyd took his policing. This is where george floyd took his last moments. Its now become took his last moments. Its now become a took his last moments. Its now become a place for Community Public rief become a place for Community Public grief and become a place for Community Public grief and protest was up right now there grief and protest was up right now there are grief and protest was up right now there are people speaking back there there are people speaking back there. Talking about how important this moment is for them and how far they have this moment is for them and how far they have come to it. But everybody ive they have come to it. But everybody ive spoken they have come to it. But everybody ive spoken to in the city in the month ive spoken to in the city in the month weve been here say there is a need month weve been here say there is a need to month weve been here say there is a need to reimagine policing. And this one trial need to reimagine policing. And this one trial will not do it. They took issue one trial will not do it. They took issue for one trial will not do it. They took issue for incident with the prosecution saying this case was not about prosecution saying this case was not about the prosecution saying this case was not about the minneapolis Police Department but with one individual Macro Department but with one individual macro onel department but with one individual macro one. That provides cover and excuses macro one. That provides cover and excuses but macro one. That provides cover and excuses but that pd in the way that has violence the way polices African Americans of that need to change African Americans of that need to change whether or not Derek Chauvin is found change whether or not Derek Chauvin is found guilty or not at this trial is found guilty or not at this trial. L. L. Trial. There was an interesting close from trial. There was an interesting close from the trial. There was an interesting close from the prosecutor i trial. There was an interesting i close from the prosecutor yesterday that said floyd did not die of an enlarged heart, it was derek she chauvin who had a small heart. He was pointing to the fact that they are wonton in difference on the part of the police man. Indifference because the people who were standing on the pavement behind you were saying to Derek Chauvin, hes dying, he cant breathe. The firefithter hes dying, he cant breathe. The firefighter who happened upon the scene firefighter who happened upon the scene was begging to the officers you say. Scene was begging to the officers you say, please check his pulse, commence you say, please check his pulse, commence cpr. And the man who has a background commence cpr. And the man who has a background in commence cpr. And the man who has a background in mixed martial arts said no. Background in mixed martial arts said no, you should not do that that is a chokehold, i know this procedure because we use it in my line of procedure because we use it in my line of work procedure because we use it in my line of work. There were teenagers here filming the scene who filmed the video here filming the scene who filmed the video we now know. She was with her cousin the video we now know. She was with her cousin who was i believe seven years her cousin who was i believe seven years old her cousin who was i believe seven years old at her cousin who was i believe seven years old at the time. And she is still distraught and traumatised by that. Still distraught and traumatised by that that still distraught and traumatised by that. That is with this position has become that. That is with this position has become a that. That is with this position has become. A way for them to remember this moment become. A way for them to remember this moment and to agitate for a change this moment and to agitate for a change in this moment and to agitate for a change in the way black communities are policed change in the way black communities are policed here, black and brown communities, they have demands around communities, they have demands around here to tell the mpd that there around here to tell the mpd that there is around here to tell the mpd that there is a around here to tell the mpd that there is a lot more they need to do. And thats there is a lot more they need to do. And thats why they close out this area. And thats why they close out this area. And and thats why they close out this area, and the streets around. They say no area, and the streets around. They say nojustice, no area, and the streets around. They say no justice, no streets. Say no ustice, no streets. Larry, ouve say nojustice, no streets. Larry, youve been say nojustice, no streets. Larry, youve been speaking say nojustice, no streets. Larry, youve been speaking to say nojustice, no streets. Larry, youve been speaking to black i youve been speaking to black americans up there in minneapolis during the course of this trial. From the very beginning of the child i remember you telling christian and me that they didnt feel confident that there could be a conviction. That Derek Chauvin would be found guilty. During the course of the trial, have they become more confident that this one case derek and george floyd that he could be found guilty . If so, what change, do you think . Found guilty . If so, what change, do ou think . , l. Found guilty . If so, what change, do ou think . ,. , you think . They have felt confident with the prosecutions you think . They have felt confident with the prosecutions case. I you think . They have felt confident with the prosecutions case. And i you think . They have felt confident. With the prosecutions case. And that has stemmed from the floyd family themselves speaking very positively about themselves speaking very positively about the themselves speaking very positively about the case the prosecution is put on about the case the prosecution is put on. About all the ways that derek put on. About all the ways that Derek Chauvin contravened Department Policy Derek Chauvin contravened Department Policy their Derek Chauvin contravened Department Policy. Their values and their training policy. Their values and their training and so they felt confident that at training and so they felt confident that at least if nothing else, the prosecution put on a strong case of the failings prosecution put on a strong case of the failings of the Police Department. However, the reason why many department. However, the reason why many were department. However, the reason why many were not optimistic at the beginning and that has not changed largely beginning and that has not changed largely is beginning and that has not changed largely is because theyve been here before largely is because theyve been here before. Theres a sense of danger viewed before. Theres a sense of danger viewed in before. Theres a sense of danger viewed in this community. In 2017 a police viewed in this community. In 2017 a Police Officer deja vu. A Police Officer Police Officer deja vu. A Police Officer for Police Officer deja vu. A Police Officer for the killing of philander casteel officer for the killing of philander casteel for top he was found by a ury casteel for top he was found by a jury of casteel for top he was found by a jury of his casteel for top he was found by a jury of his peers not guilty. The only jury of his peers not guilty. The only officer ever convicted for killing only officer ever convicted for killing somebody while on duty in the state killing somebody while on duty in the state of minnesota was in 2019, he was the state of minnesota was in 2019, he was convicted of killing a white woman he was convicted of killing a white woman who i call number one because she was woman who i call number one because she was concerned about something in her neighborhood. Even heat was found her neighborhood. Even heat was found not her neighborhood. Even heat was found not guilty of the most serious chargel found not guilty of the most serious charge. Second Degree Murder which is something that Derek Chauvin is facing is something that Derek Chauvin is facing today. He was found guilty of third Degree Murder and Second Degree manslaughter. So the community Second Degree manslaughter. So the community doesnt feel that theyve seenjustice because itsjust seen justice because its just another seen justice because its just another white seenjustice because itsjust another white Police Officer facing another white Police Officer facing a murder another white Police Officer facing a murder charge for a black person in minnesota. | a murder charge for a black person in minnesota. A murder charge for a black person in minnesota. I am somewhat struck as oure in minnesota. I am somewhat struck as youre talking in minnesota. I am somewhat struck as youre talking about in minnesota. I am somewhat struck as youre talking about the in minnesota. I am somewhat struck as youre talking about the coyote i as youre talking about the coyote behind you because they are very quiet. They are very respectful and a lot of them just standing with their own thoughts. 50, a lot of them just standing with their own thoughts. A lot of them just standing with their own thoughts. So, one of the rules around their own thoughts. So, one of the rules around here their own thoughts. So, one of the rules around here are their own thoughts. So, one of the rules around here are regulations. Their own thoughts. So, one of the. Rules around here are regulations of the community that put together as i understand, there is not trauma on display understand, there is not trauma on display here. When you come to this place display here. When you come to this place respected. Especially for white place respected. Especially for white people they say please dissenter your feelings and listen to the dissenter your feelings and listen to the fears of the community, listen to the fears of the community, listen to to the fears of the community, listen to the pain, listen to why they listen to the pain, listen to why they put listen to the pain, listen to why they put up this place. And when you hear the they put up this place. And when you hear the pain they put up this place. And when you hearthe pain of they put up this place. And when you hear the pain of a black person who is speaking hear the pain of a black person who is speaking back there, please Pay Attention is speaking back there, please Pay Attention to it. I can send the beginning, they say this is a place for Community Public grief and protestl for Community Public grief and protest. Gk for Community Public grief and trotest. L. , for Community Public grief and trotest. ,. ,. ,. , protest. Ok larry madowo inc. You very much protest. Ok larry madowo inc. You very much. According protest. Ok larry madowo inc. You very much. According to protest. Ok larry madowo inc. You very much. According to reports i protest. Ok larry madowo inc. You i very much. According to reports here in the us the loan is floyd the brother of george floyd has told nbc news network that President Biden cold plate not called him yesterday and said President Biden, he knows how it is to lose a Family Member and he knows the process of what you were going through, he told nbc news. Hejust let us know were going through, he told nbc news. He just let us know he were going through, he told nbc news. Hejust let us know he is praying for us and hoping everything would come out to be okay. So President Biden spoke to the floyd family yesterday. Lets speak now with associate. Lets speak now with dr Nicole Gonzalez van cleve shes associate professor at brown university, and author of the book crook county racism and injustice in americas largest criminal court. What are your thoughts . The previous speaker said we have been there before. � ,. ,. ,. Before. And my hometown and the times that l before. And my hometown and the times that i research before. And my hometown and the times that i research it before. And my hometown and the times that i research it took i before. And my hometown and the times that i research it took 50 i times that i research it took 50 years to convict one officer of murder. Lord knows there were so many different deaths and abuse cases from that Police Department. People are hopeful right now but when people are hopeful right now but when people express the idea of trauma. When people express the idea of trauma, that is being wronged for over a trauma, that is being wronged for over a generations. And never seeing anyjustice over a generations. And never seeing anyjustice in over a generations. And never seeing anyjustice in this court system. They anyjustice in this court system. They are anyjustice in this court system. They are in anyjustice in this court system. They are in lies the tension that every they are in lies the tension that every american is feeling right now. How does every american is feeling right now. How does the pursuit ofjustice go forward after this trial . There has been so much focus notjust in this country but right Around The World as well. On the case of george floyd from the moment we saw the video last may of him dying on the streets of minneapolis to this moment where thejury is about of minneapolis to this moment where the jury is about to read its verdict. But then what happens . Then how does the push for justice find forjustice find a focus and keep going and find public attention . Just to remind everybody, this trial was not just to remind everybody, this trial was not even supposed to happen. The local prosecutor didnt even want to charge local prosecutor didnt even want to charge chauvin with his murder. And so it took charge chauvin with his murder. And so it took the protest, the summer protest so it took the protest, the summer protest that you saw here in the united protest that you saw here in the United States to really pressure prosecutors to push this out side to the Attorney General to get this into a the Attorney General to get this into a court. And so this is really about into a court. And so this is really about one into a court. And so this is really about one verdict. And it is important and symbolic and it is for the family important and symbolic and it is for the family. But this is not reform, not one the family. But this is not reform, not one reform has been enacted in the united not one reform has been enacted in the United States to prevent the death the United States to prevent the death that we saw on that video. And therein death that we saw on that video. And therein lies death that we saw on that video. And therein lies the struggle. This is one verdict but we are certainly not done. One verdict but we are certainly not done. Not one verdict but we are certainly not done, not done changing the system of policing done, not done changing the system of policing in america. Of policing in america. Professor, we were hearing of policing in america. Professor, we were hearing from of policing in america. Professor, we were hearing from a of policing in america. Professor, i we were hearing from a congressman earlier about the George Floyd Bill which is before the senate at the moment, unlikely doing that i likely to pass because the senate is split so narrowly. Does a guilty verdict in this trial, does it increase the pressure on one side of politics to bring about change . Here pressure on one side of politics to bring about change . Pressure on one side of politics to bring about change . Here would be the difficulty bring about change . Here would be the difficulty. We bring about change . Here would be the difficulty. We get bring about change . Here would be the difficulty. We get a bring about change . Here would be the difficulty. We get a guilty i the difficulty. We get a guilty verdict the difficulty. We get a guilty verdict and there may be many white americans verdict and there may be many white americans that feel while justice was served. And they kind of put this issue was served. And they kind of put this issue to rest. But i think that would this issue to rest. But i think that would be this issue to rest. But i think that would be a this issue to rest. But i think that would be a huge mistake. We would lose an would be a huge mistake. We would lose an enormous amount of political will to lose an enormous amount of political will to push lose an enormous amount of political will to push more transformative legislation. Which is where much of the American Public is kind of moving the American Public is kind of moving towards. Many delete neck many moving towards. Many delete neck many white americans did not realise that the many white americans did not realise that the video of george floyd being killed is that the video of george floyd being killed is a that the video of george floyd being killed is a type of policing that many killed is a type of policing that many communities of colour face every many communities of colour face every day many communities of colour face every day. Even children. And so if we get every day. Even children. And so if we get this every day. Even children. And so if we get this verdict, it would be truly we get this verdict, it would be truly tragic tojust we get this verdict, it would be truly tragic to just dismiss this as the issue truly tragic to just dismiss this as the issue is truly tragic to just dismiss this as the issue is over. Ithink truly tragic to just dismiss this as the issue is over. I think its going the issue is over. I think its going to the issue is over. I think its going to take for momentum from other going to take for momentum from otherjurisdictions, from Political Movement if you will to continue pressuring movement if you will to continue pressuring the Biden Administration to do Something Different. Do Something Different certainly from the Trump Administration but even from the Trump Administration but even from the the Trump Administration but even from the 0bama administration. | from the 0bama administration. Should from the 0bama administration. I should just say to viewers, we are still waiting for their verdict in this case was up were given an hours notice was that we are well over that. Of course there are so many people to get to the courtroom, the family, prosecution, defence. The washington family, prosecution, defence. The Washington Post is reporting that we will get the verdict at the top of the hour. That is in ten minutes time. Pt. The hour. That is in ten minutes time. , the hour. That is in ten minutes time. �. ,. , the hour. That is in ten minutes time. ,. , the hour. That is in ten minutes time. ,. ,. , time. A lot of people getting into the tla time. A lot of people getting into the play and time. A lot of people getting into the play and also time. A lot of people getting into the play and also provisions i time. A lot of people getting into i the play and also provisions outside the play and also provisions outside the courtroom as well. The defence ironically brought this event yesterday about what a reasonable officer would do. They talked an awful lot about reasonable for us. What would a reasonable Police Officer do in this sort of situation . Why was that relevant to the defence side . I situation . Why was that relevant to the defence side . The defence side . I think the word reasonable. The defence side . I think the word reasonable. L the defence side . I think the word reasonable, i mean, the defence side . I think the word reasonable, i mean, this the defence side . I think the word reasonable, i mean, this is the defence side . I think the word reasonable, i mean, this is open l the defence side . I think the word i reasonable, i mean, this is open for interpretation. What is reasonable force . Interpretation. What is reasonable force . For interpretation. What is reasonable force . Fora black interpretation. What is reasonable force . For a black man like george floyd . Force . For a black man like george floyd . It force . For a black man like george floyd . It gets to the heart of that very racist floyd . It gets to the heart of that very racist assumptions about how policing very racist assumptions about how policing is very racist assumptions about how policing is different between races. That a policing is different between races. That a type of police and for black men and that a type of police and for black men and women is different from how we would men and women is different from how we would police white neighborhoods. This is we would police white neighborhoods. This is not we would police white neighborhoods. This is not happening in white neighbourhoods, right . The previous speaker neighbourhoods, right . The previous speaker mentioned the castille case, there they speaker mentioned the castille case, there they asked the jury is it reasonable to feel scared when you smell reasonable to feel scared when you smell marijuana . And because of that statement smell marijuana . And because of that statement jerry smell marijuana . And because of that statementjerry said smell marijuana . And because of that statement jerry said well when we smelled statement jerry said well when we smelled marijuana and there is this black smelled marijuana and there is this black man smelled marijuana and there is this black man they found it reasonable to be black man they found it reasonable to be scared. In some ways there is so much to be scared. In some ways there is so much racial meaning and tension within so much racial meaning and tension within these words. My hope is that the jury within these words. My hope is that the jury will listen and start to request the jury will listen and start to request and many of these assumption that america has been holding for generation. Is that a reasonable use of force . Generation. Is that a reasonable use of force . Certainly the people on the scene. Of force . Certainly the people on the scene, even children, a firefighter found it to be unreasonable. But the defence is forcing unreasonable. But the defence is forcing the jury to go back to some of those forcing the jury to go back to some of those very racist assumptions about of those very racist assumptions about how of those very racist assumptions about how black people should be policed about how black people should be policed. My hope is that we are in a place policed. My hope is that we are in a place that policed. My hope is that we are in a place that we can change that. Okay. Thank ou place that we can change that. Okay. Thank you very place that we can change that. Okay. Thank you very much place that we can change that. Okay. Thank you very much for place that we can change that. Okay. Thank you very much forjoining i place that we can change that. 0 thank you very much forjoining the program. Great to have you at this critical moment as we wait for the verdict to be an ounce. We understand its going to be in a few minutes time. Thejurors understand its going to be in a few minutes time. The jurors are understand its going to be in a few minutes time. Thejurors are in position, we understand there are reports that Derek Chauvin is now also in the courtroom. All we can see at the moment as the seal of the state of minnesota. As soon as we get a verdict announced we of course it will go straight to the courtroom. katty let� s get an understanding of whats soon to be going on in the courtroom famed lawyer Gloria Allred joins us katty let� s get an understanding of whats soon to be going on in the courtroom famed lawyer Gloria Allred joins us now. To our audiences Around The World please explain what theyre about to say. Please explain what theyre about to sa. , l. Please explain what theyre about to sa. ,. ,. ,. , please explain what theyre about to sa. , please explain what theyre about to sa. Say. They are about to see the readint say. They are about to see the reading of say. They are about to see the reading of the say. They are about to see the reading of the verdict say. They are about to see the reading of the verdict by i say. They are about to see the reading of the verdict by the l say. They are about to see the i reading of the verdict by the jury. Also, reading of the verdict by the jury. Also, we reading of the verdict by the jury. Also, we all should be aware that for the also, we all should be aware that for the jury also, we all should be aware that for the jury to reach a verdict, they for the jury to reach a verdict, they are for the jury to reach a verdict, they are going to have to be unanimous. In other words, they are going to have to be unanimous. In otherwords, unanimous in support unanimous. In otherwords, unanimous in support of unanimous. In otherwords, unanimous in surmort ofe unanimous. In otherwords, unanimous in support of a verdict of guilty. Or unanimous in support of a verdict of acquittat or unanimous in support of a verdict of acquittal. If there is a split in the jury of acquittal. If there is a split in the jury that is, some want to convict, the jury that is, some want to convict, some want to acquit, someone convict, some want to acquit, someone not sure, then there could be a mistrial. That is not going to be a mistrial. That is not going to be a be a mistrial. That is not going to be a verdict be a mistrial. That is not going to be a verdict of guilty or not guilty be a verdict of guilty or not guilty. But having said that, it sounds guilty. But having said that, it sounds as guilty. But having said that, it sounds as though there is going to be a verdict. That they are unanimous. They have been deliberating for more than ten hours deliberating for more than ten hours. Thats a good thing, that they hours. Thats a good thing, that they have hours. Thats a good thing, that they have been very, very carefully deliberating. After all, they wereht deliberating. After all, they werent able to discuss it with each other werent able to discuss it with each other untit werent able to discuss it with each other until such time as the actual ury other until such time as the actual jury deliberation began. And thats only after jury deliberation began. And thats only after the final arguments and also the only after the final arguments and also the instructions to the jury by the court. Also the instructions to the jury by the court, by the judge. So they have the court, by the judge. So they have heeh the court, by the judge. So they have been carefully looking at all three have been carefully looking at all three charges before them and also as to three charges before them and also as to whether or not there should be in acquittat as to whether or not there should be in acquittal. What he should be found in acquittal. What he should be found guilty of, whether he should not be found guilty of, whether he should not be found guilty at all and apparently there has been quite a bit of apparently there has been quite a bit of discussion during the late night bit of discussion during the late night in bit of discussion during the late night in the jury room and thats why its night in the jury room and thats why its taking so long. It� s night in the jury room and thats why its taking so long. Its taken u. Why its taking so long. Its taken u to why its taking so long. Its taken up to about why its taking so long. Its taken up to about 11 why its taking so long. Its taken up to about 11 hours. Why its taking so long. Its taken up to about 11 hours. They why its taking so long. Its taken up to about 11 hours. They had i why its taking so long. Its taken up to about 11 hours. They had tol why its taking so long. Its taken i up to about 11 hours. They had to go over their notes in their own notes there is no transcript given to them from the courtroom the judge told him that yesterday. A0 for witnesses that they heard, put it in some kind of Historical Context for us, if Derek Chauvin is found guilty, how momentous with that be in the context of american justice and the prosecution of Police Officers . {lit prosecution of Police Officers . Of course the course would like to view this as course the course would like to view this as a course the course would like to view this as a case and not part of a movement this as a case and not part of a movement. Having said that, it has become movement. Having said that, it has become you movement. Having said that, it has become you know, significant as a very symbolic and actual killing of an african very symbolic and actual killing of an African American man by a caucasian an African American man by a caucasian Police Officer. And many people caucasian Police Officer. And many people felt that it was completely unjustified. And that it was symbolic of how police often treat African Americans whom they are placing African Americans whom they are placing under arrest. And that they are using placing under arrest. And that they are using Excessive Force, that the lives are using Excessive Force, that the lives of are using Excessive Force, that the lives of young African American men and older lives of young African American men and older men and teens are being taken and older men and teens are being taken without legaljustification taken without legal justification whatsoever. Taken without legaljustification whatsoever. That less drastic means shoutd whatsoever. That less drastic means should have whatsoever. That less drastic means should have been used to either take someone should have been used to either take someone in should have been used to either take someone in custody or if they are in custody. Someone in custody or if they are in custody. To someone in custody or if they are in custody, to care for them. So it has ust custody, to care for them. So it has just touched custody, to care for them. So it has just touched a nerve. Not only in the African American community but also among the African American community but also among people in the brown community, caucasian community, Asian American community. Millions of americans feel that this particular minority has been unjustly particular minority has been unjustly treated not only by the police unjustly treated not only by the police but also by the system of Justice Police but also by the system of justice. Which they feel often has been justice. Which they feel often has been the justice. Which they feel often has been the system of injustice. So we will have been the system of injustice. So we will have to been the system of injustice. So we will have to wait and see what happens will have to wait and see what happens. There is a division of should happens. There is a division of should we happens. There is a division of should we be, but many people feel he should should we be, but many people feel he should be convicted of murder. That would he should be convicted of murder. That would be Second Degree or third degree that would be Second Degree or third degree. Others feel well know, its manslaughter. I suppose that some people manslaughter. I suppose that some people should not think he shouldve been acquitted. The prosecution has presented been acquitted. The prosecution has presented an extremely strong and very compelling case. The defence has not very compelling case. The defence has not presented much of a case but of course has not presented much of a case but of course they had no duty to present of course they had no duty to present in of course they had no duty to present in the case whatsoever. Because present in the case whatsoever. Because its A Prosecutions duty to prove because its A Prosecutions duty to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And the defence prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. And the defence doesnt have to say anything the defence doesnt have to say anything. But they did put an Expert Witness anything. But they did put an Expert Witness on anything. But they did put an Expert Witness on the stand. Anything. But they did put an Expert Witness on the stand. Thank you very much for that witness on the stand. Thank you very much for that. Just witness on the stand. Thank you very much for that. Just a witness on the stand. Thank you very much for that. Just a few witness on the stand. Thank you very much for that. Just a few minutes much for that. Just a few minutes left now before the jury come back into the courtroom. Lets quickly speak to the president of the national bar association. Thank you for being with ours. Im always struck at moments like this. Are you there, can you harass . We will try and get that line back. As you were saying just now a couple of minutes now until we think we are going to get the verdict. Obviously, the verdict was reached after about 11 hours of deliberation. Whats been happening is that the jurors, the 12 personjury panel, seven women five men have been making their way back from the place where they were sequestered, into the courtroom they are in minneapolis. The judges courtroom they are in minneapolis. Thejudges come into courtroom they are in minneapolis. The judges come into the courtroom they are in minneapolis. Thejudges come into the room, Derek Chauvin will be there too and the Prosecution Team and the defence team as well. Because of covid there has been an extra in every child, very few people have been in that courtroom. We do understand the brother of george floyd, he is there at the courthouse. As well as you can see from these pictures people assembling outside that courtroom as well. �. , assembling outside that courtroom as well. �. , well. Im always struck when i get to this stage well. Im always struck when i get to this stage in well. Im always struck when i get to this stage in a well. Im always struck when i get to this stage in a court well. Im always struck when i get to this stage in a court trial, well. Im always struck when i getj to this stage in a court trial, when you covering a court trial. The force of emotion that must be on all sides. On the part of the family, naturally who want justice for the loved on that theyve lost in the part of the defendant of course, whose life is hanging in the balance. And on the part of the prosecution who left nothing to chance here. They called 38 different prosecution witnesses. There was an hour and a half of Closing Argument yesterday, came back after the defence do not defence are closed to rebut for a further hour. They put every scenario to the jury. Theyve tried to get ahead of the defence at every turn and the child, explaining everything that the defence was in a put out there. And it comes down to this moment. Three, four weeks of trial to this moment, guilty or not guilty. Three charges. And of course the future of Derek Chauvin hanging in the balance right now. Let me show you a picture of the courtroom. In the family. There is the seal thatis in the family. There is the seal that is behind the judges chair. You that is behind the udges chair. You are sa inc that is behind the judges chair. You are saying caddy . I was going to say for the family of george floyd this is a huge moment. Theyve been calling for justice is a huge moment. Theyve been calling forjustice in this case and it would go against historic precedent in this country where the track record of convicting Police Officers and brutality of unarmed black people has not been one where it happen very often. So it would be an historic case if Derek Chauvin is found guilty. That is the courtroom in minneapolis was a we will bring you the verdict as soon as we have it. Welcome to our viewers Around The World and pbs news. We are bringing you special coverage of the courtroom in minneapolis where the jurors have reached a verdict. In the trial of chauvin. The former Police Officer have been accused of murder in the case of george floyd, the unarmed black man who was killed last may in minneapolis and we understand that the verdict has been reached and all of the members of thejury are reached and all of the members of the jury are assembling in that courtroom at the moment. But the judge along with Derek Chauvin the former white Police Officer and the members of the prosecution and the defence team. We have been speaking to a host of legal analysts over the course of last hour since it was understood. The verdict coming down and they have all been surprised by the speed with which the