But for us, just they took us then, through thursday and friday, from the water and exiled us were going to see weather fronts to manus island, to that really target western scotland, you are up to date on the headlines. Bringing large amounts of rain here. Now on bbc news, Hardtalks Stephen Sackur in conversation now, we could see around 70 80 mm, with Behrouz Boochani, maybe more than that over iranian author, journalist and refugee. The high ground. Thats enough to cause prison, and detained us. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen some flooding impacts, sackur. In 2013 the australian but its not the only place that will see rain. On thursday, well also see some wet government adopted a draconian and they never asked us questions weather pushing in anti immigration policy which and they didnt send us to a court. Across Northern Ireland. The rain getting into northern involved sending all seaborne would and also they tortured us, you know. England and north wales, too. Further south and eastwards, be Asylum Seekers to de facto they tortured us for years and years probably a bit more cloud around, detention camps in remote papua new and they put us through a systematic but it should be bright enough. Torture for years, just its turning milder guinea and micronesia. Well, my to humiliate us and destroy us as south westerly winds spread in across more of the country. And take our identities. High for most between 9 12 degrees. Now that im talking with you, what follows thursday night guest was one of them. He is an you know, so far, 13 people died, will be a very mild night. And i can say, killed by the system now, that might come because of medical negligence, as something of a surprise, especially when you consider recent iranian curd who has written about because of violence. Nights have seen some very sharp frosts. His extraordinary 60 experience as a marooned migrant. Six year. He is as we head into friday morning, these are the kind of temperatures 11 12 degrees. 110w marooned migrant. Six year. He is now, the reason its so mild is its cloudy, now a prize winning author. But is its wet and its windy, and so i think, for people and initially we have the winds coming in from a who want to know, if they do south westerly direction. His long term fate any clearer . Research, small research, they can see how this story later in the day well start to get is and how the system works north westerly winds following in across the northern and what the Australian Government has done in manus island and nauru. Half of the country, and so temperatures and now that im talking with you, will be dropping away. More than 200 people highs of seven degrees in stornoway. Remain in there. Mild day for the midlands, east anglia and southern england, temperatures here around 12 13 degrees. Now, the weekend looks like this. A ridge of High Pressure to start things, but sunday sees a weather front move in across the uk. So saturday looks at the moment to be the better of the two days behrouz, you make a very, of the weekend, where it should be Behrouz Boochani in very serious allegation largely dry and bright. Auckland, new zealand, welcome to hardtalk. Perhaps a bit of rain, though, thank you for having me. Its a pleasure to have there by using the word torture. Getting into Northern Ireland later you on the show, behrouz. Of course, the Australian Government in the day. Sunday looks like it will turn i think we have to begin had a rationale for what they did. More widely unsettled, with an explanation of how youre they said it was a deterrent policy. With rain at times. In new zealand after this epic, thats your weather. It was only by making it clear very long journey, difficultjourney to the people smugglers that youve been on. And to the would be refugees how come right now you are talking that it was impossible for them to make it to australia and that they would end up in this very difficult situation to me from auckland . In manus island or in nauru, that was, according to the australians, the only way i was invited by the world festival in christchurch in new zealand a few of deterring people from making this months ago, and then i applied journey and many of them to visa through my lawyer losing their lives, because we know in new zealand and then so i did it more than 1,000 people had through unhcr and then lost their lives at sea. That was the australian justification. What do you say to that . New zealand and finally so i reached through to new zealand. You know, you cannotjustify, you know, this barbaric policy. But the interesting thing you cannotjustify, you know, is that the most short way violations of human rights. To new zealand was that and so what the australian i fly from port moresby, government has done is not sending the capital city of papua a message to people smugglers new guinea, to australia, or people around the world dont then transit and fly to new zealand. But i was scared that if i did come to our country by boat. That they would deport me from australia. So thats why i flew to the philippines. I was in the philippines for 19 they, in fact, they are sending this hours in transition, message to their people, then flew to new zealand. I mean to their supporters and people of australia. And we should never forget, when we arrived on Christmas Island it was two months before the election, federal election, and the labor party introduced this policyjust because of the election and over the past six years the Australian Government have used us for political interesting that you didnt feel you could possibly take the risk benefits and just that. Of going into australia, even in transit, and you call it a long journey but it is nothing like the many years ofjourneying that you have had to endure to get to where you are today. Of course it was very difficult, let us go back in time almost impossible, for journalists like me to get access to nauru to pick up this story or to manus island to see the conditions inside the camps when you were still a young man where people like you were held. In iran of kurdish origin. And lets not forget you were held you decided to get involved in activism, both political and cultural activism, there for pretty much six years. As a kurd in iran. What happened to you to make you feel you had to leave . I was born in war and i grew you tell me what conditions up in discrimination were like, because im very struck against kurd in iran. By the fact that, of the dozen so, most of my life, or so people who died in the camps, when i became older, i was struggling just to educate at least five of them, the young generation and people who keep kurdish culture alive. It seems, were suicides. This is the briefing, so what was going on in the camps im sally bundock. That left so many people our top stories so desperate that some of them in the us, the House Intelligence Committee releases its impeachment were taking their own lives . Inquiry report, accusing President Trump of putting his so all of my activities ended up interests ahead of americas. In myjournalism works, we should think about these, so i was working as a freelance that how they exiled people, journalist in tehran, exiled innocent people to a remote he was willing to sacrifice the National Security the capital city, and at the same of the United States in order prison in a Remote Island and keep them for more than six years. To get what he wanted. President trump is in london for the nato summit as tensions emerge about the alliances future. Time i was working in other cities. The tech Billionaire Elon Musk how they kept the children claims in court that he did not and the women in indefinite detention for years and years literally call a british so my problems were happening and still justify that. Through those activities. Cave diver a paedophile. So the main concept is exile so finally, you know, and also the main thing is that, some of my colleagues were arrested you know, time. The two men who founded google, larry page and sergey brin, by the intelligence agencies and so that ended up are stepping aside from running in my, you know. You know, keeping people in limbo its Parent Company alphabet. I had to leave iran. For years and years. So i think that is enough to, you know, living in that condition and that situation is enough that we understand how this system is cruel. When you felt you had to flee because many of your friends had in another part, we should look been arrested, and you felt at the people who died, you know. You were in grave danger, i wonder why you decided to go 13 people died, you know, all of the way from iran to australia, the other side of the world. It would have been so much easier under this system. To perhaps aim to get into europe, why did you decide on australia . And hundreds of people are damaged. And we should look at the, you know, the reports by the respectful, actually, i didnt have time, the most respectful international so i had to leave right away, Human Rights Organisations such as amnesty, such as, one of my friends introduced me you know, human rights watch, to a person that i met in a park in tehran. And also unhcr. He told me that the best way would be that he would send so it is illegal, what the Australian Government has done me to indonesia. Is illegal and also png so, if you feel unsafe in indonesia, then you can go to australia. So thats why, you know, ijust followed him and i didnt Supreme Court order that keeping have choice, i didnt have people in that prison camp is illegal. What the Australian Government has done is a crime against humanity. Time to make a decision. And i say this strongly, and it is not only me. Many people, many organisations say that. And i think the australian at that time in 2013 government has nothing to say there was a well established people in front of this. Smuggling route from indonesia across the sea to australia. But it is extremely dangerous, that crossing. You, i believe, tried it twice. In 2015, i think it was, you and a group of other people decided to stage a Hunger Strike to protest the conditions and, i believe, some of you sowed your lips together to refuse to eat. What was the response of the local staff, because let us not forget these detention centres what happened to you when you tried were actually run by people in one of those refugee boats, to get to australia . In indonesia i was in a place called kalibata city, so i remember that sometimes from Papua New Guinea . Immigration Police Attacked how did they treat you when the refugees. You tried to protest . You know, before that Hunger Strike, after six months, there was a protest in manus island and the result of that protest was the authorities, the australian guards with the local people, they attacked us and they injured 100 people very seriously and they killed reza barati. Unfortunately, the police in indonesia attacked refugees and twice i witnessed that they arrested many people and they deported them back. So, they didnt ask any questions. And after 18 months we did thats why i was really worried a big Hunger Strike, about my safety and i imagine which i think was more than 800 if theyjust deported me back. So thats why i went to, i decided to go to australia. And after 48 hours our boat broke people participating and i drowned in the sea, and they took me from the ocean in that protest. So after 12 days they attacked us, and put me in prison. And because our protest was a peaceful protest, then i escaped and again i went to australia by boat. So it was a really dangerous time. A completely peaceful protest. And now looking at the past, i think, you know, sometimes i feel that it was work that really i had they came and arrested, you know, not needed to do that, some of the refugees, because they say that because it was so dangerous. You are leaders or. But at that time, i just wanted and they arrested people and sent to feel safety and find them to local prison, a safe place. And they kept people there with the local criminals for days and days. Then they put people in solitary confinement and, again, another solitary confinement. Yeah. I was there for a0 days. I want to ask you about something that strikes me as very, in a sense, ironic about your situation today. Im in London Holding a copy of your i know that you saw people book no friend but the mountains. Who were on the boat with you drowned, actually, killed. You survived because you were picked its called the true story out of the water but other people of an illegally imprisoned refugee. Did not survive. Its been a big success, this book, and its based on the Text Messages but then of course you ended up you were able to send subject to the australian to friends on a smuggled phone authorities decision not when you were still inside the detention centre. To allow you or indeed, it is an extraordinary any of the other boat piece of work. People coming by boat. The Australian Government decided not to allow you onto their territory, the irony is it has been extremely but send you to manus island in Papua New Guinea. Well received in australia. They set up two camps, one in manus island and one in the one of the islands you have just won a major literary of micronesia, nauru, prize in australia worth and that is where all of these aud 125,000. Would be Asylum Seekers ended how do you feel about up after 2013. The fact that your story, what were your feelings which is so negative about australia and the decisions taken by its government, has now resulted when you arrived in manus island . In a book that the australian public is so eager to read . You use this word, i think how do you feel about that . We should make it clear, boat people, it is one of the main concepts that the australian before publishing this book i was, you know, ive published many government is using for describing journalism articles, us, and they call us boat people, opinion articles in australian media and internationally. And you know, it is like a negative meaning in australian political context. Then i made the movie chauka, please tell us the time with my colleague arash kamali sarvestani, which reached International Film festivals such as the london film festival. So australia is using this word just then the book was released. To create fear and people are scared of us. You know, i call this policy exile policy, the Australian Government and the media called this pacific solution. But for me, innocent people who arrive in australia by boat, it is an exile policy and i was exiled to manus island. And the way they did that, it was a big humiliation and deep humiliation. So of course, i never forget that. I describe that in the book so before that i was about how they were treating us. Known in australia. So, definitely, you know, but the award, actually, it is like, i use another word, 00 10 38,227 2147483051 42 03,828 modern slavery, so i think 2147483051 42 03,828 4294966103 13 29,430 we should understand this. Brought too much attention to others of my work. One thing i would like to mention is that i should acknowledge a big part of Australian Society and Civil Society in australia to stand up for humanity and support the refugees. So this recognition to my works, actually i understand it in this way. The Civil Society in australia, and the Literature Community in australia actually resisted, in front of this system, because this, by this recognition, by giving this award, resisted in front of the system, because this policy had a negative impact on political culture in australia. Behrouz, you know there are hundreds of thousands of desperate people in our world who feel they have to leave their homelands, just as you did, many because of fear of persecution. But it is clearly a huge risk. You now are aware of the dangers and risks involved. What would your message be to desperate people around the world who are considering whether it is worth fleeing from their home countries . You know, people leave their countries because of discrimination, because of persecution, because of religious dictatorship, because of war. And i think that problem created by this system, this global system, and people, i think superpowers should take some responsibility. So of course i no have a message to people. The people who just think about their safety, how can i send them a message, what can i say to them . You should be a refugee to understand what a refugee wants and why people leave their countries, you know . So thats why definitely, if i send them a message to, dont do that, its risky. I knew that it was risky, you know . Refugees know that. But they take that risk and they do that because of safety. So of course, you know, my message, if i have a message, that message is not for the refugees. My message is to the superpowers, to the countries, to the politicians to take some responsibility and respect human rights and help people to find the shelter, help people to find safety and start a new life. So that is my message. My message is to the politicians, not to the refugees. Behrouz boochani, in auckland, i thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. 00 13 41,046 4294966103 13 29,430 thank you