Thats all. Stay with bbc world news. Now on bbc news hardtalk. drumming patients are dying, people are dying, the Current Situation in the Healthcare System in zimbabwe is collapsed. Zimbabwe was for so many years defined by Robert Mugabe and a struggle for independence. Now hes gone. But this country has yet to emerge from his shadow. Should do do you trust president mnangagwa to make things better . Crowd no theres nojobs, theres no money, theres no food stamps. Millions of zimbabweans go to bed hungry, dependent on handouts for survival. This country is on the brink of catastrophe. Who or what will save it . More than half a Million People living mba re, a sprawling slum on the outskirts of harare. This is where zimbabweans come to escape crushing rural poverty. Many find themselves in a different sort of trap. In the last month it has been difficult to obtain cash. 27 year old richard fanne is desperate to find a way out. Is it almost impossible to find a full time, properjob . Its next to never, finding anything. Next to never . Next to never. Nojobs and soaring inflation its a recipe for wholesale desperation. Aid agencies reckon half of all zimbabweans now rely on assistance for survival. Do you trust president mnangagwa to make things better . Crowd no worse and worse. So why do you say he is making things worse every day . I dont know if its him or its what because things are getting worse and worse every day. Prices for transport, schools everything is closed, everything is down. We are struggling. And do you have children . Yeah, and they are not going to school. I cant afford to Pay School Fees for them. You theyre not even going to school . Yeah, they are at home. When mnangagwa replaced mugabe, people hoped that maybe things would get better. Were better before. Really . Yeah. You seriously think things were better under president mugabe . Yes for me, yeah. Mugabe is better. Zimba bwes infrastructure is crumbling. 2 Million People in harare have been without piped water for months. The fear is isolated cases of cholera and typhoid could become an epidemic. And the country is in the grip of a power crisis, drought has cut hydroelectricity supplies. This coal fired power station on the road to mbare is run out of spare parts. At sunset, the mood shifts quickly in mbares streets, the entire neighbourhood is plunged into darkness pierced only by fires, oil lamps and the lucky few with generators. Richard is now taking me to a friends house, its about 7pm in the evening. I can tell you walking through mbare in the dark, well, its a pretty weird experience. Richard guides me down dark alleys and into a block originally built for single, male labourers. But now teeming with families, crammed into tiny spaces. Thank you for letting us come into your home. Yvonne mugombe and nine members of her family spanning three generations live on this one room. Yvonne, in the dark at night, when theres no power, theres no lights, do you and the kids feel safe here . No, we dont feel safe. Some of the people are being robbed at night. There are thieves all over this community. So we dont feel safe if theres no electricity. You when zimbabwes military post Robert Mugabe out of power two years ago, there was hope of an end to the era of misrule and corruption. Incoming president Emmerson Mnangagwa promised economic reform, modernisation and a rise to middle income status by 2030. By early this year, hope had morphed into anger and despair. When the government lifted fuel subsidies, protesters took to the streets a dozen people were killed in a brutal crackdown. It was as if mugabe had never gone away. Arguably, things are now worse. Amid a currency crisis, fuel imports have been cut. Those who need petrol face a weary ordeal. Just tell me how long you waited to get to the head of the queue today . Well, i got into the queue at half seven this morning and im here now. Thats three hours. That is a lot of your work day, taken up by sitting in a car and doing nothing. Well, thats my morning gone. It makes business very difficult. It makes the whole of your life very difficult. But it is a way of life here. The later mugabe years saw the zimbabwean currency collapse and hyperinflation set in. The us dollar became the de facto currency. Now theres an effort to reintroduce the zimbabwean dollar, but only in limited amounts to thwart the black marketeers. Just taking a walk through central harare, and ivejust spotted a large crowd of people outside what i think is a bank. So, lets go find out whats happening. Show me the new zimbabwe dollars. So this is a new 2 bill . Yes. And theyve just printed these for the first time . Yes. And how many dollars were you allowed to take out today . 100 a week. It will last for how many days, 100 . 100, we can use 100 for one day. One day . Yes. And then its finished . Yes. Are you confident the government and president mnangagwa are stabilising the economy . Because it has been a mess for a very long time. Yes, im confident. You are . Yes. Because many people here are not. Why are you . Me, im very, very confident. Why . Because enough is enough. Youve suffered enough . Yes, but im confident everythings are going to be stabilised. It seems like zimbabweans have the ability to survive, even in the most difficult situations. We are strong people, thats why we are called zimbabweans, we are very strong people. There is a veneer of normality in harare, but scratch the surface and desperation is exposed. This should be one of harares busiest hospitals, but the chronically sick of being sent home. Almost all the doctors are refusing to work. They dont call it a strike, they say theyve been incapacitated by salaries that have been dramatically devalued. Masimba ndoro is 25, a proud and newly qualified doctor. So is tapiwa mungofa. After all the hard work and training they have both been through, they have been fired for refusing to work. Youre a trained doctor, you should be in the hospital, but youre not, youre not at work, why . We as doctors are incapacitated to report for duty. That is to say we cannot afford to report for duty each and every day, we cant afford transport. Why . Because the money that were getting from the government is not enough for us to come to work every day. To be brutal about it, is this all about money . You want more money than the government is prepared to offer you . Absolutely. This is about money. So theres a gap in the salary that were getting from the government, they are completely detached from the reality and the situation on the ground. In real terms, that is in us dollar terms, your last salary was basically about 4 a day. Yes, basically if you add it, its basically around 4 5 a day. And is that possible for you and your family to live on . I think if you are to deduce, to use it for transport, food, accommodation, its a paltry salary, you cant even have a decent living. Many zimbabweans might say to you, look, guys, life is tough for everybody in zimbabwe, but you have special skills, you are a doctor. You are your whole career is about caring for people. How can you, because of money, walk out of your hospital . 0k. If i may appeal to your conscience and the conscience of the people of zimbabwe who would think like that, i have some special skills that i am willing to use. I am actually willing to be at work, but the situation is that i cannot afford to be at work. How hard is it for you as a doctor to know that there are very sick patients in that building behind you, but you feel you cannot go in and treat them . How hard is that for you . Its very hard and very heartbreaking. As doctors, we actually have our patients at heart. And this is what were doing, we are actually advocating for the patients. What is happening to all the sick people . What is happening to the sick people in zimbabwe that patients are dying. People are dying. And, i mean, avoidable deaths because of the Current Situation. The Healthcare System in zimbabwe has collapsed. There is no Healthcare System to talk about. But the government would say that is on your conscience because you are the doctors who are refusing to work. Yes, but its not on our conscience cause we cannot afford to come to work and i cannot use my conscience to pay for my bills, i cannot use my conscience to pay for my transport. I am an ordinary employee like any other employee and i need to be ca pacitated for me to do myjob. Do you feel the same . How do you cope, for yourself, with your own conscience, given there are so many sick people who are suffering as a result of this . I dont draw any pleasure from this, but i believe this is a silent genocide which is going on. People are dying because they cant get the Healthcare Services that they deserve to get. Youvejust said it, a silent genocide. A silent genocide. That is a very, very strong phrase. Yes. A strong idea. Yes. Do you really mean that . You mean the government is deliberatelyjeopardising the health of the people . Let me explain, let me explain. Now, it is the governments responsibility to make sure affordable and quality healthcare is provided to its citizens. I mustnt be thinking of rent, house, food, accommodation, basic, basic, basic needs. If im attending to a person i should be a well focused, motivated worker when attending to a patient. Would you love to be attended to by a demotivated doctor who is thinking of other things while attending to your health needs . I guess no. Since independence, zimbabwes parliament has been dominated by zanu pf, mugabes party, mnangagwas party, a ruthless political machine. The party blames continued International Sanctions for the countrys parlous state. Misrule and mismanagement are never acknowledged. And, as the president attended parliament for the annual budget presentation, a crowd of loyalists was rounded up to put on a show. So president mnangagwa hasjust arrived at the Zimbabwean Parliament as the budget is about to be presented. And zanu pf have put out a lot of supporters to make some noise, but in truth, its a very lacklustre affair. After mugabe, the promise was change. Instead, zimbabweans are getting more of the same. Minister mangaliso ndhlovu, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. Thank you for having me and welcome to zimbabwe. Thank you very much. Let me begin this interview by quoting some words from president mnangagwa at the time of his inauguration. He said we are going to grow, modernise, and mechanise our economy. We will transform our people into middle income citizens. The reality is very, very different. Whats gone wrong . Thank you for that. There are always silent features incident statements. In that he never said it would be easy. He did not at any point underestimate the magnitude of the work that lies ahead. So we are quite confident that the journey we have travelled so far, and the journey we still have to travel. Its quite promising. Most young people simply dont have work. They do not have income. I went to mbare yesterday, a vast sprawling suburb on the edge of this city, harare. I spoke to dozens of young people, none of them had a job. Employment remains a challenge. And im glad to say we have even put very specific incentives targeting at Employment Creation for young people in the coming years. But youve had two years already. Whats happened in those two years . Well, there has to be reforms in place which we have done, which we have put in place. I wanted to just get back to the direction we have taken. We sought in our Transitional Stabilisation Programme to stabilise the macroeconomic environment and particularly targeting the budget deficit and the current account deficit. These two, in my view, have done very well. Its still a work in process and once these have been addressed, we believe that we will have the necessary impetus to then grow the economy and create the jobs that we saw. Stability, you say, stability. Well, lets perhaps look at the most obvious sign of instability. Currency crisis, your finance minister has just introduced new zimbabwean dollar bills, 2 and 5. Ive seen the vast queues outside banks because people are only allowed to withdraw 100 a week in most banks. There is still a raging black market in currency exchange, there are speculators just a few yards from this hotel still exploiting people because your currency crisis is not resolved. I will agree with you that we still have a challenge in the currency situation, particularly on the speculative side. What has happened is that over the years zimbabwe has had almost the largest penetration in terms of digital currency. And this involved inclusion of quite a number of people. I think were to 85 Financial Inclusion due to our mobile Money Transfer system. But because of the fragility of our currency, people have tended now to want to use more of the hard currency, hence the pressure which we are seeing in the banks. And this is creating loopholes and opportunities for arbitrage for people. But with respect, your government isnt closing those loopholes, those opportunities. In fact, many zimbabweans believe that people in power are actually collaborating with the money changers and the speculators. Many people in this city and across your country are disillusioned with president mnangagwa and his record. And as we speak, your inflation rate, you wont even publish the figures anymore, but your inflation rate is believed to be somewhere over 300 . Youve lost control. 0k. Inflation, why we decided that publishing is misleading in a way is because is we have transitioned. Last year, this time around, we had a parity in terms of the Exchange Rate. And when we liberalised our Exchange Rate, it gives a false impression. When you look at our prices last year in us dollar terms and you compare the prices this time around in us dollar terms, you might find that the prices in us dollar terms have actually gone down. But because of the disparities in Exchange Rate, then we have these numerous distortions. Minister, are you aware that there are many people in your city who are now so impoverished, who see the price rises, cannot afford food, they are reduced, them and their families, to living on one meal a day . Are you aware of that . I will admit that this has created pressure, particularly on the purchasing power. Wages have not aligned to the Exchange Rate movement and that has been the major challenge, which we are gradually addressing. And no doubt. Im asking you as a human being, a zimbabwean, do you go to places like mbare and talk to people . I come from the communities, stephen. Are you aware that their children are going hungry as we speak . Well, there tends to be also issues of exaggerating certain issues. You think thats an exaggeration . No, no, i admit there is a challenge when it comes to Food Security, which is why we have even put a fresh appeal to the United Nations and all cooperating partners. When we talk of people going hungry, we are literally talking about food on the table. And food on the table there is a direct impact coming from the drought we have experienced. And this has stretched, if i may say, governments social protection expenditure because we have had to import close to 70 of our grain just to make sure that theres adequate grain in the country. So we have yet to focus more on addressing Food Security issues. I spoke to young doctors yesterday, newly trained, very proud of their qualification as a zimbabwean doctor. They say they cannot, they will not, go to work in the hospitals because they cant afford to. They have, to put it their way, been incapacitated by the fact that the real value of their wages as doctors represents little more than three us dollars a day. Some of them are selling their possessions simply to survive. You and your government again must bear responsibility for the collapse of your Healthcare System. But what i can say is from the first day weve opened our doors for negotiations. We still engage our doctors. This is a process that we dont believe we can resolve within a short space of time. Stephen, i just want to give you a different perspective. Over the last year we undertook reforms through our austerity measures on our own. Ill give you examples of countries that have gone through reforms and the kind of assistance that they got. We did that on our own. And obviously we do appreciate that our people have had to pay the price. Look at countries like greece. They got more than 160 billion support, egypt, from the spring rise, they got more than 12 billion support, recently we had from the. So zimbabwe had to do this on their own. I understand what youre saying. But one of the reasons why zimbabwe is not Getting International support is because theres no faith in the competence and the honesty of your government. Just to take a few examples, power plants lying idle right now, partly because parts which were ordered from south africa years ago and paid for, have never been delivered and no one knows where that money has gone. Look at your National Airline, you used to be commerce and trade minister. Surely you are concerned that the National Airline isnt allowed to fly because iata the International Organisation says that it is not satisfied your airline has the maintenance Safety Record which would allow it to mandate it to fly. And these are competence issues. You will realise that this is a government that has really struggled over the past two decades. And over time, what you are talking about are real expenditure issues. Corruption issues, ill put that aside. This is a real challenge, and we are putting efforts to make sure that it is addressed. What you are talking about is something that was unveiled in our internal auditing systems and drastic measures have been taken on that. But on physical expenditure issues, we have had to contend with the effects of isolation, with the effects of sanctions. You rather tactfully put in there a reference to sanctions, as though some of this could be b