hello and welcome to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. this week: delhi is enveloped in toxic smog. is that concentrating minds in government ahead of the madrid climate summit? three weeks to go till the uk votes: has it become the get—brexit—done—election? and if not, then what? and as prince andrew quits public life, is it harder anywhere in the world to befriends with a sex offender? my guests today — indianjournalist ashis ray, irish broadcaster brian o'connell, greg katz of us news agency associated press, and agnes poirier of french news magazine marianne. welcome to you all. four years ago, climate change barely registered as a voter issue in a british election. this time, it's a priority. the same is true of the battle for the democratic presidential nomination in the us. but does voter anxiety translate into government action? climate scientists say three in four countries have inadequate pledges on cutting emissions. among them is india, whose capital has been choking on smog this month. a week from now, governments get another chance to step up at the madrid climate summit. so, will they take it? ashis, you have just ashis, you havejust come back from india. is the smog concentrating minds ahead of madrid? the smog has lifted, to a certain extent, but it is still very toxic and it was pretty serious just a couple of weeks ago. having said that, i think that this toxic smog is caused, to a large extent, by crop burning in neighbouring states. and that smoke is what aggravates the situation. it is a normal phenomenon which generally takes place in the month of november. but that said, i think that when it comes to overall, nationwide, mass consciousness about the environment, i think india still has some way to go. what i noticed, very encouragingly, was that schoolchildren were out on the streets demonstrating against parents and politicians because they are angry. and they really feel let down by the older generation. and yet, is that translating in any way into a sharpness of attention from the indian government when it gets to madrid? because, of course, at this point, as i understand it, india has a carbon intensity pledge, but it doesn't have a cutting emissions pledge. yes, this pledge that india made in paris was that from the standards of 2005, india would reduce the emission intensity by 33% to 35% by 2030. now, i am not very sure whether india will make it, but india has made significant progress in the area of energy, for instance. because one of the major polluters in india has been these coal—fired plants. and they are now being gradually replaced by solar energy, because the cost of generating solar energy has come down, which has been a boon for india. and so therefore, india is rapidly catching up. but there are still wild violations taking place as a result of a lack of consciousness. and that is where, i think, india needs to get its act together. agnes, what about madrid? if the us, as we all know, is just backing out of the paris agreement, who is stepping up to take leadership? it doesn't sound like india has quite got there yet and, of course, some of the other big nations like china and russia also seem to say, "don't blame us. don't expect us to clean up the damage of other developed countries." who is going to take the lead? i was going to say president macron but he is one of them. european leaders, but also trudeau in canada. there are still leaders who make green issues their priority more and more, actually, thanks to the public‘s awareness. but so, i mean, it is very important in two weeks‘ time, because a lot of the world's national commitments to cut green — greenhouse gases were pegged to the 2020 deadline, so it will be crucial next year, when we have talks hosted in london, for a new set of commitments. and — but, you know, i wanted to say, the paris agreement four years ago. it feels like another century. it was such a great achievement and a feat of international cooperation. but it feels, i mean, the spirit has changed. trump, bolsa naro — climate deniers are in power. but what has happened is a sort of awareness and realisation in the wider public that we can't rely on the state and administrations to do what they have to do. they should, of course, be part of setting targets and passing laws and showing the way, but every one of us can actually have a massive impact on tackling climate change. and it is very easy to be cynical when you see greta thunburg and when you the school strikes and i must say, i must admit, i am one of the cynics sometimes. thinking they should be in school! we should be doing this, not children. and actually, that is a good thing. extinction rebellion is a bit dodgy sometimes and leaves a lot of garbage in the streets of paris, but we are forced in our daily lives to be confronted with those issues. that is a good thing. and it is down to individual responsibility. i think politicians used to lead the way, but now, they are following the public. it is not the other way around. and the fact, as you say, the labour manifesto, it is one of the first major issues. perhaps it is too late. but we have to try. greg, turning to the us, we've mentioned this a couple of times, an interesting line coming out of the trump administration now that technological advance will get the job done and that government action is not what is necessary. is that compelling to audiences in the us? i think that is carrying the day in the us. but it is a very american approach of, like, going to the moon or "science can fix it. let's come up with a magic bullet." but i think what is taking hold to a degree in the states is the economics behind developing and marketing alternative sorts of energy is gaining momentum. there are hopeful signs, because the power of the individual states — and some states are massive, like california — are standing up to the federal government — like california — and imposing their own standards on the federal government ata time at a time when the government is pulling out of things like the climate pact. the other important thing that you referred to in the introduction is that this is a huge electoral issue in the states and the democrats, unless there is one person who is not convinced, the democrats are basically saying "we have to address this immediately and we have to reverse president trump's withdrawal from the climate pact". so the vote in the us next november is going to be quite crucial on this because the us may well change position, or trump could be re—elected and then he'll have another the anti—pollution laws there. brian, we haven't heard from you yet. you have been in brussels. it is interesting, as agnes says, that some european governments are making steps on the carbonised. —— on the carbonised in their economy with hard deadlines. —— on decarbonising their economy with hard deadlines. how is that looking in brussels? it is at the top of the european commission's to—do list. the new president of the european commission has set out a target of climate neutrality by 2050. the big problem with that, of course, is they're dealing with 28, soon to be 27 countries. and a lot of those countries are very worried about the social impact of this and who is going to pay for it and where the money is going to come from. and it is literally trillions of euros. and that is what the big debate, for example, in the european parliament is going to be about. every single bloc in the european parliament — with the exception of one of the extreme right blocks — is talking about it. it is no longer simply a green issue. and the biggest issue for them is going to be how are we going to pay for it? there is no longer any argument about whether it should be done or not. it is how fast can we do it. when it comes to madrid, one of the important things i think they are going to have to face up to is when they tighten up what happened in paris about carbon trading, because there are so many loopholes in this, so that scheme was first introduced in kyoto and it is widely abused, basically. china has continued to build coal—fired power stations since paris 2015. it is still going on. india has its problems as well. and that gives a huge let—out to people like donald trump, for example to say, "why should i damage steel workers in pennsylvania if the chinese are basically ignoring what is going on?" one point about india, and it is this — india is a target of environmentalists because of the size of its population. because per capita, emissions out of india is well below the global average. so the problem, really, is of here, a developing country being expected to do a lot, whereas countries like the us renege on its paris commitments. we will see this argument continue in madrid and we will possibly return to it. but right now we need to move on because we have two big topics to get to. british voters are laughing in the faces of their politicians, literally. a studio audience hooted derisively at conservative leader borisjohnson when he said telling the truth was important. and they gave labour leader jeremy corbyn the same treatment when he claimed his brexit policy was clear. but mocking incredulity aside, what is the mood of this election and where is its momentum? greg, you get us started on that. the mood. the mood is people are not paying attention. they are bored, they are turned off, they're sceptical, they're cynical, they're like "get these politicians away from me, sort of out of my face". i think they are not terribly likely to vote in droves if it is wet and cold, and obviously it will be dark on december12, i think you will see a dampened figuratively and literally turnout. people are turned off by the whole thing, and huge things are at stake. this vote is really important but the voters are probably tired of people hearing people on tv say how important it is. ashis, do you agree? and do you see any momentum anywhere? i don't see anybody running away as yet. if anything, the lead that the conservatives are supposed to have at the moment shrinks, then i think it will get tight. there's something else that should be emphasised — more than 40% of people are either still undecided, or will not tell which way they are going to vote. so that is a crucial factor and this is a result of this being an extremely abnormal complicated election. because with brexit as an overwhelming issue, it is not really a normal general election. where the economy might dominate and otherfactors could dominate over elections, the environment is a factor, but i still feel that this brexit issue has complicated matters. for instance, you have a situation where you have a traditional labour voter who is a leaver. which way will he go? then you have a traditional conservative voter who is a remainer. which way will he go? so it is a very abnormal election. people will take their time. i don't know what will happen but if it is a wet and cold 12th of december, then perhaps the younger generation will come out rather than the older generation. and that just might help the remainers. dream on! dream on! brian, you laugh/ well, i remember we were saying the same thing during the 2016 brexit referendum. maybe the new generation will come out and save the remaining side from complete disaster! but i think there are a couple of interesting things about this. it is the brexit referendum, but a couple of other things have been going on. the laughing — people simply do not trust what politicians say any more. so, for example, bbc's question time programme the other night, you have a labour mp saying "in our manifesto, we are going to raise income tax on people raising over £80,000 and that is the top 5%." now, that is correct, but a voter in the audience puts his hand up and said he earns that amount and i am not in the top 50%. they were all nodding along. the vast majority did not believe it. now, labour is right, factually, when they say that, but people don't believe it. why? because politicians have, for the last few years, been telling them "don't trust the expert any more". they are now reaping the results of having said that. however, there is one other point about that debate earlier in the week — the tv debate just between johnson and jeremy corbyn, prime minister and the leader of the opposition. now, because politics has been polarised by brexit, it's probably the biggest gap between a labour and conservative leader in british politics for i don't know how many generations. it's huge. and you have, you know, a very left—wing labour leader promising nationalised broadband, this, that and the other. now, the opinion polls suggest he's not going to win this election. he's not going to be in downing street. things could change, but the opinion polls suggest he's quite a bit behind. however, what i think has changed is, if you put brexit to one side — which is very difficult in british politics — i think the weather is changing within all of the other issues. because for the first time, people are saying, "well, yes, maybe we should renationalise railways. people have had enough of poor railways. they pay to much for their water." certainly free nationalised broadband has hit a chord with voters there. it won't happen this time, but i think that we will see that carried on in future elections. agnes, for the many, not the few — this message, is it beginning to get heard, alongside boris johnson's oven—ready brexit message? no, i agree with brian, but i wouldn't believe the polls, especially in the uk. so polls apart, it's also a referendum against or for boris johnson. just to put labour and corbyn aside. but, even if corbyn might have close to zero chance of winning a majority, the thing is he doesn't need to win a majority. what he needs is, what, about 270—280 seats. and then he turns to the welsh or the snp or others and that might make him cross the line. whereas boris johnson needs a majority. he needs 321 seats. and then you look... because the problem with labour is not labour. it's not the manifesto becomes you read it and you go, and you think, "this thing or this thing is pretty good". whether that can be implemented, that's another thing. and i think a lot of labour voters think it sounds good, but he'll never do it. is britain ready for socialist britain? that's a big question. it's a radical manifesto that labour have produced. but it doesn't help that — the fact that jeremy corbyn is sitting on the fence on brexit. it doesn't help that it appears to have been an unwritten deal between the conservative party and the brexit party. and in between, what i discover in the last few weeks is that jo swinson is not making an impact. and so therefore — the leader of the liberal democrats. so the lib dems who were polling at over 20% seems to have shrunk to something like 15%. i don't know what that will ultimately be. they seem to represent the remainers. that's why i don't trust the polls. because a lot of constituents are going to choose their lib dem candidate not because ofjo swinson, but because of their local man or woman. these polls are very misleading, because there are very distinct constituencies. we will leave that at a point of indecision, various people sitting on various fences, but not around this table. politicians like to say a week is a long time in politics, but a prince has just proved that an hour is quite long enough to destroy a career in public life. that was the duration of prince andrew's bbc interview focusing on his friendship with convicted sex offenderjeffrey epstein. the tsunami of outrage that followed forced the queen's second son to announce his withdrawal from royal duties, and other public roles swiftly followed. agnes, your reflections on this? is this a big problem for the royalfamily? does it create an impression of dysfunction and detachment? well, i'm not sure you need to ask a french republican about the british monarchy. i think i should remain silent. look, it is britain's deepest contradiction, you know. britain is a parliamentary monarchy — a monarchy that is not biased, that is the unwritten pact with the head of state. the head of state doesn't have a say. she can be tricked by her prime minister, like borisjohnson, even lied to. from abroad, it's very strange. it's a distraction, and the fact that we have a prince — how come we have a prince? to think that he was the british ambassador to trade in the time of brexit. we have people who are too privileged and not bright enough. and so now, yes, the institution is in chaos. yes, he's going to be banned or banished from the inner circle. and prince charles is furious because he wants the core of political activities or representation activities of the monarchy to be on him and william. there will always be scandals like this, as long as the monarchy is around. but brian, widening it out, agnes is having a go at the monarchy but, in a way, these issues are attached to all areas of public life. wherever you get perhaps a sense of entitlement or privilege or detachment from normal people, and power asymmetries, you will get issues like this. the me too movement is a result of that. and where you have powerful, predominantly white male people exerting that sort of privilege. this is going to continue to happen until people say "no, that is enough. we're not going to do it any more". the problem is that institutions, whether it's the corporate institutions or the monarchy, need to be alive to this, aware to this in the workplace. whether it is in the royal family, or anywhere else, what we saw in that interview that prince andrew did was simply somebody who was completely oblivious to it. as you say, he wasn't terribly smart about the way he conducted the interview, and part of that was as a result of an innate privilege which he felt. i mean, when you're invited at the end of an interview to say is there anything else you'd like to tell me, or to say, and you completely ignore the fact that it might be a good idea to actually say something about the victims of this epstein affair, you deserve everything you are going to get. and speaking of opinion polls, it'll be interesting to see in a week or two where the royal family stand in that. i think they will bounce back in 10 minutes, personally. we went through it with the death of diana as well. i want to ask you about the question of oblivion, power asymmetries, the me too movement that brianjust mentioned. of course, president trump knewjeffrey epstein. he disputes he was a close friend, and prior to his election as president, we had the access hollywood tapes in which he boasted about groping women and said when you're a star they let you do it. these questions attach globally, don't they? yes, and epstein has friends across the political aisle. he had a friendship with the clintons as well. i think the remarkable thing about trump's election was that he was not hindered at all by those access hollywood comments, which to me was quite striking. it's almost as if the voters backing him reallyjust didn't mind that disparaging attitude toward women. but that is the exception, what what you see with epstein is he shows the power of the press, when applied properly. it was a regional reporter in south florida, in miami, who refused to let the investigation of epstein die, even when the courts had closed it off. he had made a sweetheart deal, he was able to continue on and was living the high life and it took the press doing itsjob properly to say "wait a minute. how about those victims? the deal he got was wrong." and that changed everything, and changed the rest of andrew's life. how does it play in india, and how these issues post—metoo play in india? is it time up for people who behave like this, or can they be protected if they have a kind of partisan tribe to protect them or enough money in power? the interesting thing is, although india has got its independence in 1947, india remains greatly enamoured with the royal family. therefore, great television events like royal weddings or any of that thing attracts massive tv audiences in india. there is a little bit of respect for the royal family. so this incident, whether it is the episode that has unfolded over the years and months and then this television interview that took place last week, this hasn't gone down very well in india, obviously. that said, i think people are not jumping to conclusions. what people are saying is that it looks bad, but is it really that bad? i don't think the tv interview has helped at all. does it cause people to pivot back and look at their own powerful, privileged people? indeed, there is a bit of reflection. you look at yourself within, you look at the country within, and you wonder whether this kind of thing is going on in the country itself. obviously it's a different scenario. there is no royalfamily there. but what i would say is that this story is going to run for a while. because there's an interview coming up on panorama shortly, and therefore... with one of the accusers of epstein, who also accuses prince andrew, which he categorically denied. one thing about the royal family, people do differentiate between the queen and the rest of the royal family. and there are certain popular members of the family. but one thing this goes down bottom line is that it was a great misjudgement to frequent the company of somebody like epstein. and there we have to leave it. that's it for dateline london for this week. we're back next week, same time. goodbye. hello. we've had more rain on already saturated ground through saturday. sunday promises to bring something drier, but they will be a lot of cloud, and also some misty, murky conditions. briefly we had a wea k murky conditions. briefly we had a weak ridge of high pressure extending across the uk. still some rain to talk about it first on sunday, particular for eastern scotland. still in the heavy side, and then slowly through sunday that heavy rain becomes bind to the northern isles. quite wet and windy here, but elsewhere turning drier. there will be a lot of cloud, some mist, some fog particular through the morning, so poor visibility, and any brightness or sunshine really at any brightness or sunshine really at a premium on sunday. but away from the northern isles, it is mainly dry. it is fairly mild, 9— 12 celsius, turning wet and windy across the south—west of england and into wales through the evening and overnight. in that event of rain makes its way north and east with on monday. it may not get to the far north of scotland, mainly dry here. behind this rain, some brightness, a few spells of sunshine, and a scattering of showers. it will be another mild day. nine to 13 celsius. welcome to bbc news. i'm simon pusey. our top stories: voting is under way in hong kong's local elections. it's a big test of support for embattled chief executive carrie lam. and i'mjonathan head at a polling station in hong kong, where really impressive numbers of people have turned out. voting has started in what is bound to be seen as a test of support —— nothing has opened so far. donald trump's personal lawyer says he doesn't fear being indicted — despite claims he was at the centre of white house efforts to pressure ukraine. i did the right thing. i represented my client in a very, very effective way. in france, tens of thousands march against shocking levels of domestic violence towards women. translation: the government must do something to help us. we

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