Be held before long but mps will also consider amendments, which could include votes for 16 to 18 year olds. Its 5pm. Were live at westminster where the house of commons is inching its way towards a decision on holding a general election before christmas. Mps are debating a bill presented by borisjohnson, which is meant to clear all its commons stages today, but its already looking to be a less than straightforward process. Theres disagreement on the date, the 12th of december proposed by the government, is being challenged by the opposition. But labour, after much internal debate, is now backing the calls for an election. Jeremy corbyn said that the ruling out of a no deal brexit had dealt with labours main concern. The Scottish National party and the liberal democrats want a 9th of december poll but theres talk of a possible compromise around the 11th december. There are extra demands for giving votes to 16 and 17 year olds, and allowing eu nationals resident in the uk to vote in a general election. Lets start with our politcal correspondent chris mason on the days events so far. Prime minister, is this election a big miscalculation on your part . Fourth time lucky the Prime Minister hopes as he headed to the commons this afternoon to make his case again for a general election. I call the Prime Minister. Mr speaker, thank you. Labour said this morning they were 110w labour said this morning they were now back in election but Boris Johnson remains sceptical. Theyjust wa nt to johnson remains sceptical. Theyjust want to spin it out forever until the 12th of never, mr speaker. When that eventually comes round table devise one of their complicated parliamentary procedures and move a motion for a further delay and a further extension then. Mrjohnson concluded an election was overdue. There is only one way to restore the esteem in which our democracy is held and to recover the respect in which parliament should be held by the people of this country and that is finally to offer ourselves to the judgment of the people of this country and i commend this bill. |j call the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn. And he said. Labour backs a general election because we wa nt backs a general election because we want this country to be rid of this reckless and destructive conservative government. A government that has caused more of out government that has caused more of our children to be living in poverty, more pensioners to be in poverty, more pensioners to be in poverty and more people to be in work poverty. But he also said this but he also said this. We will be seeking to extend the franchise which will mean extending votes to 16 as is the case for Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly elections and i think it also means that we support the rights of eu citizens with settled status vote in elections in this country. The government says it will pull this bill if Parliament Backs giving votes to 16 or 17 year olds or people from elsewhere in the eu. But this afternoon has felt and sounded like an Election Campaign on the start line. We on these benches are simply not prepared to sit back and allow scotland to be taken out of the European Union against its will. On that basis, mr speaker, i welcome the opportunity of an election. Make no mistake, the election that is coming is going to be the right of scotla nd coming is going to be the right of scotland to determine its own future. And next up, the pitch from the liberal democrats. Working with out the liberal democrats. Working with our closest members as a United Kingdom, family of nations, strung together working within the eu, we can shape our economy and build a brighter future. That is the message the liberal democrats will be taking to the country in this election. In the next few hours there will be votes here, votes to decide if the rest of us will get a vote before christmas on who gets to represent us christmas on who gets to represent us here. The debate is still going on in the house of commons. We are set within the next hour or so to get one of the next hour or so to get one of the main votes in this piece of legislation. The house of commons not terribly well attended at the moment. It was earlier, of course, when the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition and others we re leader of the opposition and others were making their case on this. This purportedly simple built which might now be amended in some form. It is not quite as straightforward as some people thought. We should get a vote ona people thought. We should get a vote on a second reading in the next hour and then all stages completed by later this evening, thats if its goes to plan. Vicki young is in the central lobby of parliament. What is your reading of the way things are going and how straightforward or not this is process going to be . It has been slightly complicated by the fact that mps can make changes. Weve had a whole raft of them put down in the last few minutes. The whole range of things. The government wants the date of the election to be the 12th of december, the labour party in Jeremy Corbyns name has put down an amendment saying that the election should be on the 9th of december. Government is unhappy with that. It isa government is unhappy with that. It is a monday and they say that causes logistical problems, preparing polling stations over the weekend, fewer staff to do that and could therefore cost more money. They are not happy with that but that is how labour are going not happy with that but that is how labourare going and not happy with that but that is how labour are going and that is also what the snp and liberal democrats wa nt what the snp and liberal democrats want because they want the amount of time that borisjohnson has between this bill passing and parliament being dissolved to be as short as possible because they dont want him to get his brexit few three. He said he wont do that but they dont trust him. There are other amendments as well from the snp about giving eu citizens living in britain the right to vote in a selection and 16 and 17 year olds. These are much more controversial. They are things that labour, the liberal democrats and the snp have backs for a long time. The government are against this. They say it is not the right thing to do to make such a huge change before a general election is called with no consultation whatsoever. The question about these amendments is that theres a whole list of them but not all of them will be selected to be debated on or voted on. That is up to the Deputy Speaker. He will make that decision. We will find that out just after 6pm. Make that decision. We will find that outjust after 6pm. It is possible that because this is a very simple bill all it does is change the date of the general election. These amendments would do is change very fundamentally who votes on those elections so the speaker may rule that these are out of scope and are not allowed to be debated today and that is how most people see this going but as you know things have been pretty unpredictable in the passage of all of these bills in the last few months so we cant be sure until the Deputy Speaker gets up just after 6pm. Nobody will quibble with the uncertainty, obviously. When you talk to people in the lobby outside the chamber, are they expecting on either side of the house, are they telling you that they are expecting by the end of tonight there will be a broad agreement on an election on a certain date in december . agreement on an election on a certain date in december . I think thatis certain date in december . I think that is where theyre going. You can look at mps faces and they are facing a five weekjob interview and many of them will not be coming back to this place either because they are retiring and moving to other things or because they will be chucked out by voters so a lot of them are looking anxious, even those with quite large majorities feel this will be a very volatile general election. Most of them do think it will be very much around the issue of brexit but labour want to move that arguments on to talk about other things they do now feel with Jeremy Corbyn saying that he had now decided to back a general election, that probably wont be derailed. We will find out in the next hour but by 7 45pm tonight we could be in a position where that december election, a highly unusual time of year to have an election, that december election could be on. Lost on was in 1923, the last december election. To what extent do you think it was possible on the exchanges we had earlier in the house to look ahead to the nature, the character and the focus of the Election Campaign that will come up . I think it is going to be different obviously to many of the others. It was not that long ago that was pitched as the brexit election in 2017 when theresa may called it, Jeremy Corbyn and labour managed to get that election onto other issues and that is what they are hoping to do this time around. Where is for the conservatives, the issue that borisjohnson has the conservatives, the issue that Boris Johnson has is the conservatives, the issue that borisjohnson has is that he hasnt delivered on that promise for the uk to leave the eu on the 31st of october. Will he be punished by the brexit party and nigel farage . Or will people for who then that is the most important thing turned to Boris Johnson and say he is the only person on this you can deliver and we have to send him back with a majority. Both johnson we have to send him back with a majority. Bothjohnson today we have to send him back with a majority. Both johnson today saying that the parliament is broken or not functioning properly. He does not have a majority. He is 23 mps short ofa have a majority. He is 23 mps short of a majority and for this place to function in a way that the government wants he would need to have more mps. That will be his aim and then of course you have the liberal democrats and snp both hoping to improve the position they are in. What you cant tell is that in all of these constituencies across the country, you cannot sell what kind of impact the smaller parties might have on the votes of the bigger parties. Nothing is certain. This one does look like it will be pretty unpredictable. Certain. This one does look like it will be pretty unpredictablem certain. This one does look like it will be pretty unpredictable. It is 12 minutes past five. When we get the proper votes . It has to by quarter to six and it takes about 15 minutes so we will have a result around 6pm. The Deputy Speaker will then move on to the Committee Stage and that is when he will announce which of the changes the mps want to make to the bill and a chance he will allow to go forward to be voted on. We will be back with you as soon as that vote materialises. Thank you very much. Outside the palace of westminster on college green, i am joined by one of the experts on legislation. How would you explain to viewers what is being attempted today . The government is trying to legislate to hold an election on the 12th of december. The reason why the government has had to resort to passing legislation to do that is because of the fixed term parliaments act. This was a law passed in 2011 which essentially gave parliament more control over when an election was called. Before 2011 the government could make the choice to dissolve parliament and hold an election on the date of its choosing but the fixed Terms Parliament act says the government would need two thirds of mps in the house of commons to support him. He couldnt get that last night so instead he is legislating. The bill will be open to amendment and we will be open to amendment and we will see after the second reading proceedings are wrapped up we will see what amendments are selected. This is very important to explain because we are taking viewers through the reckon a sum of legislation here. Because this is a bill, even though it is a simple bill, even though it is a simple bill, mps now have a right to add their own amendments and we are talking about two principal ones. One to do with eu citizens resident in the uk who at the moment cant vote in general elections. And then we are talking about people over 16 being able to vote. What are the significance of those two amendments . Mostly big amendments are about changing the franchise of who votes in general elections. There is a big question as to whether they are being ruled to be in scope because the chair of the debate lindsay hoyle, nottsjohn virgo, he will have to make a choice notts. He. He will have to decide. This bill is quite limited. Itjust says they wa nt is quite limited. Itjust says they wantan is quite limited. Itjust says they want an early election for the 12th of december. A lot of people say should this be about setting how elections take place because it is just about this one date. It is quite possible that Deputy Speaker will say he is not selecting any amendments. He might not select them. There is also an amendment around the date of it. Some of the Opposition Mps want the election earlier than the government wants. He mightjust earlier than the government wants. He might just select that one earlier than the government wants. He mightjust select that one or he mightjust save he mightjust select that one or he might just save there he mightjust select that one or he mightjust save there isnt he mightjust select that one or he might just save there isnt a he mightjust select that one or he mightjust save there isnt a reason for selecting any of these amendment. If anyone doubts who the debate two if anyone doubts if the debate two if anyone doubts if the debate is phasing out we can see that it isnt. Lets cross to the houses of parliament now and speak to lib dem mp chuka umunna. Thanks forjoining us. What is your sense of how things will go . Who knows . I think it is worth remembering the whole reason we are able to go through this process of considering what democratic process we follow next is because we have an extension to article 50. Do or die. Borisjohnson extension to article 50. Do or die. Boris johnson hasnt managed extension to article 50. Do or die. Borisjohnson hasnt managed to take us borisjohnson hasnt managed to take us out of the European Union by the end of this month and thank god the snp and the liberal democrats did the intervention that we did over the intervention that we did over the weekend giving the clear signal that if an extension was granted we would use it to follow our democratic processes because the signs where we were to have got a very short extension indeed if we hadnt done that. In terms of what will happen to this vote i think a majority is emerging here in the house of commons for a december election but the terms and the precise date of what remains to be determined and our preference was to have the general election as early as possible in the wake of the 9th of december. There are a number of reasons for that. It ensures the Withdrawal Agreement of the Prime Minister cannot be rammed through because it wouldnt be the time. We are aware of the fact that students start moving around towards the end of that week. So there are a number of that week. So there are a number of issues to consider in order that but we would like it as early as possible in that week. You have made the point about timing, would a couple of days make a big difference to you if there was a growing consensus around is the 11th of december which is a day earlier than the Prime Minister is proposing. Would that be something you could go with . Lets see what other proposals to governments comes forward with. It has tabled this bill for the 12. The bill we have published over the weekend was for the night. Ninth. Well see if they can be some kind of compromise. Lets be clear about what were doing here. It is not about helping any particular political party, it is about our legislature and governments can function. The house of commons is com pletely function. The house of commons is completely dysfunctional and the government has a majority of 45. That is what we have to go back to the people and say, whats make up of house of commons do you want . Hopefully that will enable us to move forward because if you want to stop brexit and you cannot get peoples wrote in this parliament because you have a significant minority of labour mps and the bulk of conservative parties not allowing them to be a peoples vote and sponsoring a hard brexit, you have to have an election to stop brexit as far as we are concerned. Everyone underlines the simplicity of the bill but there are colleagues of yours who wants to amend it in rather significant ways, not least on the Voting Rights of eu citizens resident here and indeed for the over sixteens. What is your attitude to those attempts to amend a bill in significant ways . We have always supported giving young people to vote from 16. We also support and franchising eu nationals as well. That has been liberal democrat policy for some time. I would be surprised if it is ruled in scope in this bill because the fixed term parliaments act relates only to polling day. It doesnt actually relates to the franchise which is covered by other legislation. Whether those amendments are selected is a decision for the Deputy Speaker lindsay hoyle. Im just going to interrupted because im being told that the only amendment selected is the one to hold the election on the 9th of december and amendments on lowering the voting age and eu citizens as i understand it have not been selected. What is your response to that . As i said, i would have been surprised if the amendments were accepted because they are outside the scope but obviously i as i have just the scope but obviously i as i havejust said, we the scope but obviously i as i have just said, we want the election to be as early as possible in that week. Number 10 have been briefing that the big nos for them has been the franchise amendments but they will give way and compromise on the date. So lets see what they come forward with. So it seems that the mps of face with a choice of the ninth or the 12th. Is that correct . It seems that way. Given that choice will you end up on the ninth . Lets see where we land. This is not about gameplaying. We want the ninth so that students wouldnt be moving around in the midst of a general election. It is really important to young people have their voice. We also wanted to make sure that the timetable was such that the governments couldnt ram through its Withdrawal Agreement bill in the remaining few days we have left before parliament dissolves. Those we re before parliament dissolves. Those were the two principal issues. I do understand the reason it has been advanced by the government is that there is an important piece of legislation relating to Northern Ireland and the budget for the Northern Ireland administrations which they are saying needs to go through the house of commons before we dissolve and also there is a scheduled election of a new speaker on monday. Lets see where discussions go from here. This is a bit of a moving feast but you are giving me new information and we now have to work out what to do next. Good to talk to you. Chuka umunna there, the liberal democrat mp. The bill is to have election in december. The only one selected weve heard is that to have the election on the 9th of december. Those wanting to give Voting Rights to eu residents in the uk, that has not been selected. Lowering the voting age has not been selected either. It seems that it is a simple matter of one amendment to be discussed in the Committee Stages of the bill which will come up very shortly. This to underline again this bill is meant to clear all of its commons stages this evening. By eight oclock tonight it is meant to call all of the common stages to become law in a matter of days. With me is Maddy Thimontjack from the institute for government. Does that amendment choice surprise you . No, the bill will only be debated in a mere six hours in the house of commons. It would have been quite surprising if it had have been selected and the deputy of speaker would have taken advice and they would have taken advice and they would have taken advice and they would have said it seems to be out of scope. What choice does that leave mps . They will be able to vote on whether to hold an election on the 9th of december. If there is not a majority in favour of amending the bill to say it would be held on the 9th of december and the choice really will be for opposition parties that they still back the idea of having an early election and are they willing to support the government on holding an election on the 12th of december . If they do pass the 9th of december election the choice of the government will be is that ok . The choice of the government will be is that 0k . It the choice of the government will be is that ok . It will be interesting to see what they decide to do. A lot of people will be watching saying, why are they quibbling about three days . Whether it is the ninth tenth 11th or 12th, what is the problem here . Is it political gameplaying orare here . Is it political gameplaying or are there genuine differences in the choice of dates . There are two aspects to this. When the 9th of december was suggested it was around the idea of whether government could pass its brexit deal before dissolving parliament. If have a brexit deal on the 9th of december parliament would have to be dissolved by the end of this week. If it is the 12th of december it doesnt have to be dissolved until next wednesday. It would give the government more time to get its brexit bill three. The government has said it wouldnt do that anyway and we have reduced timetable so there is now a discussion about whether students will be able to vote. On the 12th of december there wont be as many students in some of the constituencies which some opposition parties arent happy about. It only applies to some universities. If that is the case is itfairto universities. If that is the case is it fair to assume that the debate is really not down to very big principles, it is to do with personal taste and timing . Principles, it is to do with personal taste and timing . M principles, it is to do with personal taste and timing . It has become part of it. It is worth saying that from the governments perspective the reason they say they cant make the dates of the 90s because they need to pass Northern Ireland legislation and they dont have time to do that before dissolving parliament on friday so that could be persuasive for some of their mps that could be persuasive for some of theirmps and that could be persuasive for some of their mps and will have to wait to see if it is persuasive enough. What is your sense right now . We have heard from chuka umunna of the lib dems and the snp were very clear that they want an election. Labour coming out and saying after lots of internal debate. A lot of their mps arent happy with the election. Even tory mps are saying they are not convinced. It is not clear cut, is it . You have outlined it exactly right. We cant predict the outcome of the vote. It will be very difficult for the labour leadership to row back on backing an early election. Im not sure how well it would play publicly if they wrote back on that. It does seem like there are splits in many of the parties and we will probably have to wait and see. It is not clear whether the data will end up being the deciding factor or not. Not long to wait. We will find out. Thank you very much again. We will talk later. Lets catch up with what is going on in the house right now. The debate is still continuing. A Scottish National party mp is speaking right at the moment and this is leading up to the vote on the second reading which should take place in about 15 or 17 minutes time if the timetable is to be relied on. Lets get a sense of the debate and where it is at the moment byjoining now. They can cast it down the petty tribunes who have so long sat here squabbling over trifles. This should be the last election to a uk parliament. Scotland will be independent before another is due. We will have no need to die in a ditch, we would just get independence done without the buffoonery. No one can arrest the progress of a nation or shout down its ambition. This is the sun drenched of the uk and the end ofa sun drenched of the uk and the end of a song and an old song once ended in scotland will start again. Brexit has been the downfall of two tory Prime Ministers and the decency of the tory party. It has ripped apart the tory party. It has ripped apart the labour party and destroyed what credibility does parliament once had. Mr speaker, i am in favour of the general election, a general election on may seven when the sun is shining, when 16 year olds have been included, when we can get over brexit by having a referendum, a referendum on the deal. We have a deal, the brexit weve been arguing for three years, we have a deal, put it to the people. Why are we not putting it to the people . Because the premise or knows the people want to grieve that because a majority will remain and yet knows that he met get a majority of mps with a small minority of mps if the remain vote splits. That isnt democracy. With his brexit and any brexit, we will be poor, weaker, and more divided and isolated. And i very much regret that we are hurtling in this direction thanks to the liberal democrats giving up their vote and the snp and the like and basically having an unstoppable momentum towards an election. We that was a labourmp, one of towards an election. We that was a labour mp, one of the latest contributors to the debate in the house of commons. The house of commons is inching its way to holding a general election before christmas. We have had contributions from all sides of the house. Some people really demanding the right to change this simple piece of legislation which just sets out the case for an election on the 12th of december. Some members of the house wa nt to december. Some members of the house want to amend it but it will not be amended in any significant way other than possibly on the date itself. Because there has been an amendment selected which means mps can choose between the 9th of december and the 12th of december. That is where we stand. This not a lot of debate to go now until we have the first big vote on this piece of legislation. It is rather sparsely populated at the moment. Those green benches looking pretty empty but it will fill up pretty quickly in about 15 minutes time when the first vote will take place on the second reading of this debate. The bill will proceed into a Committee Stage and it will be fast tracked and there will be another vote at about 7 45pm, 8pm at london time when we get to that and then we will see if the bill survives in its current form step that is what the debate is all about. As the debate continues what i want to do is go to edinburgh and speak to sirjohn curtis our colleague was the professor of politics at the university of strathclyde. Good to have you with us once strathclyde. Good to have you with us once again. Good evening. Just listening to the bite earlier with the Prime Minister and leader of the opposition both of whom are saying they really want this election, can we know one thing straightaway, it is still open to the government, only one still open to the government to put its religious legislation through the house, there is no obligation on the government at all to go after an election at this stage. Not at all. Given particularly the government couldnt persuade the house of commons to back holding an early election using the procedure that has been laid down in law, we are now going to bypass that through what is going through today. Of course there is no obligation. The government could have decided to use the extension time that is available on the 31st of january to progress its time that is available on the 31st ofjanuary to progress its bill. The concern it has is in so far as it wasnt there when we had a Programme Motion through and therefore the house of commons might have a relatively leisurely look at the governments bill, i think the governments bill, i think the government concern is that this increases the risk that the bill would be amended in such a way that the coalition of people who gave it the coalition of people who gave it the majority of 30 would fall apart. For example if it were to be the case of the house of commons were to say the United Kingdom should try to remain inside the customs union, in the next round of negotiations, that could mean some of the erg hard brexiteers would say that is no longer acceptable. There are one or two issues like that included the second referendum argument where potentially defeats on an amendment could mean the Coalition Support in favour of the bill begins to erode andi favour of the bill begins to erode and i think that is a reason why in the end of the government either wa nted the end of the government either wanted to push the bill through very quickly or it now has accepted taking the risk and it is a bit of a risk of holding a general election without brexit having been delivered. That is essential point and that is what i wanted to ask you next, which is your read of the Political Landscape given where we are, as you say brexit is not yet delivered, and a general election which is being held against the background of lots of polls suggesting a big conservative lead at this stage. How cautious are you around these polls and what would you say about the prospects for an Election Campaign that leads quit close to christmas . I remind you it is you and i who spoke together on the 18th of april 2017 when theresa may unexpectedly called an election and at that point the conservatives we re and at that point the conservatives were 16 points ahead in the polls. The fact that they are currently around 12 points in the last fortnight or so ahead doesnt necessarily mean that they are going to win the election but it does mean clearly the comparative start as favourites and particularly it is worth bearing in mind insofar as the public have been living in the last two or three weeks it looks as though the squeeze of the conservative party on the brexit party amongst leave voters which have been going on ever since the summer has continued further and it is that squeeze which has been the principal validation of the conservative leader in the polls, when the conservatives and labour we re when the conservatives and labour were both at 25 points in may labour are still there, the conservatives have gone up to 35 simply by squeezing the brexit party board so it means that the battle for the hearts and minds of leave voters is crucial. Boris johnson hearts and minds of leave voters is crucial. Borisjohnson needs to avoid nigel farage persuading leave voters that his policy of living at had to deal now makes more sense given and by the way you can trust the stories to deliver because they failed to deliver three times in a row. If that argument that will be crucial. As far as christmas is concerned, a lot of talk about whether or not it will make a difference and at the end of the day we dont really know because we had three elections in december back around either side of the First World War but at that point in time christmas and new year were not the major secular festival that they have become where we have all got used to the country shutting down for two weeks in the middle of winter. Therefore given that is the case may be more people will be put off. To be honest i think that is rather unlikely. Because we know so many rather unlikely. Because we know so ma ny voters rather unlikely. Because we know so many voters feel very strongly on both sides of the argument, one suspects at the end of the day they will want to go to the polls and they will want to vote for a party that they think is either going to deliver brexit or is going to stop it. You mentioned the battle for the hearts and minds of those people who are on the leave side of the argument, there is an equally complex equation for those people on the remain side who want to make their point in the election coming up, so which way are they likely to turn . This again is the other crucial feature of the moment. Whereas leave voters consolidate behind the conservatives, the remain voters divided particularly between labour and the liberal democrats but some for the greens and snp. If you add up the total vote in the polls at the moment for the brexit party, the tories and the anti brexit opposition, they are roughly equal. But the remain voters divided because the liberal democrats at away significantly at labour support amongst remain voters in the spring and they have held onto it. The truth is remain voters will probably face more choice particularly if you area remain face more choice particularly if you are a remain voter in a conservative labour marginal, you might think one policy is better, but if you do you still have to decide what is the best way of helping brexit might be stopped, equally if you are a labour voter in some of the seats of the liberal democrats hope to pick up from the conservatives you might think holding a referendum is better than simply revoking article 50 but you still might want to think about what is the best way to stop brexit in your constituency. Many thanks. We have to wait and see whether the bill gets through tonight but thank you forjoining us once again. As the debate continues, just take a peep inside the commons at the moment because we have the winding up moment because we have the winding up speech is starting as we can see on the government front bench. More mps pouring into the house now. Lets pop out into the central lobby of the houses of parliament and joined vicki young once again. Yes, mps getting ready for that vote on the second reading. It has to happen bya the second reading. It has to happen by a quarter to six and it takes 15 minutes and then if it goes through which we expected to we will move straight on to Committee Stage which is the detailed look at the bill and then the all amendments, changes the parties want to make and we know labour are pushing to change the date from the 12th of december to the 9th of december, something the government doesnt want. But maybe numbers will be out opposition parties will have to wait and see put stop lets talk to ian library who was in charge of the labour general Election Campaign. Presumably youre looking forward to the chao. Im really looking forward to the challenge. Im happy that the red line of thinking no deal of the table has now gone and we get into an Election Campaign and we want that election as soon as possible. We really believe we have a fantastic raft of policies which will appeal to lobster people within this country who need real change in this country who need real change in this country. We need change in communities right across the country. We cited borisjohnson bring it on. At times Jeremy Corbyn and the party sounded very reluctant to go for a general election and quite a lot of excuses before getting to that point. Only when the liberal democrats and the snp look like they would push through this election date that you came on side this morning. Im not sure i would agree with that. We have always said the red line was a no deal brexit, thatis the red line was a no deal brexit, that is what we said. You didnt know that yesterday when Jeremy Corbyn got up in the comments. When knew it last night and we had a meeting this morning. We cant have it much quicker than that and we are great as soon as we had received correspondence from the eu in writing because we cannot trust borisjohnson, we writing because we cannot trust Boris Johnson, we cannot trust the conservative government, we cannot accept what they have said at the dispatch box because they have a track record of misleading and misinforming underlying to everyone and anyone so we wanted the letter back from the eu. That came last night and this morning the shadow cabinet agreed that we needed to have a general election. Here we are, hopefully we will have that election within six weeks. Why are so many labour mps against the idea ofa so many labour mps against the idea of a general election . They are very concerned. They are looking at the opinion polls and Jeremy Corbyns personal writing, the worst of any Opposition Leader in history, and i think that this is going to be a big problem in the election. Think that this is going to be a big problem in the electionlj think that this is going to be a big problem in the election. I think quite the opposite. I think as i have already mentioned we have got great policies on workers rights, on the green industrial revolution, investment in social care and the nhs investment in schools, eradicating child poverty, eradicating child poverty, eradicating in work poverty, getting rid of universal credit. A lot of them are worried aboutJeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister and that is what im hearing on the doorstep. The reality is once we are in election and compelling mode, once we get into articulating what we have to offer, people will begin to understand what we stand for and i think they will sway towards the labour party. I am confident that we have got everything it takes, all the ingredients it takes to have a successful election and get Jeremy Corbyn into downing street for christmas. What about brexit because you know that the government, the tory party will make it an election about delivering brexit and you know how they will paint you, as a party that has had a very confusing brexit policy, and one that wants to stop brexit happening. Is that what labour policy is . I think we are the only party willing to put a labour deal back to the people, put it back to them for their site, that has been abandoned by the lib dems who just want to revoke article 50 and ignore the 17. 4 million. What we have said quite clearly is that we will win an election, renegotiate a brexit deal and will then put it backin brexit deal and will then put it back in the hands of the people. Do you think there is an appetite for that because that means another long delay, that is saying you can get another, a third brexit deal and then put it to a referendum where a lot of your mps was built to remain in the eu. Whether it is the third of the port brexit deal, it would be the right brexit deal because a brexit deal but before the commons at this moment is quite simply hasnt had the parliamentary majority from all sides of the house. We would get a different brexit deal, a brexit deal in the best interests of the people and what is really important is that democracy, we would hand it back to the people and i can tell us whether they want to or they dont. The challenge for you will be getting to talk about other policies because whatever you say about the other things which of course people are very interested in, because brexit hasnt been resolved it is bound to be weighing heavily on a lot of peoples minds. I think that is right. We have 650 constituencies, 650 mp5, 650 right. We have 650 constituencies, 650 mps, 650 offices of staff and then what happens here in the westminster bubble, people have got concerns about brexit right across the piece and ifully concerns about brexit right across the piece and i fully understand that. We have to try and break through brexit because we have to get on to the domestic agenda, what impacts upon peoples lives, next year and for the next 25 years and thatis year and for the next 25 years and that is a challenge and i am confident we have other people that we can break through that and give this offer and show that we have got Jeremy Corbyn at downing street for christmas. Going back to Jeremy Corbyn as leader, lots of labour mps andi corbyn as leader, lots of labour mps and i am sure they said to you they are binding on the doorstep that he is not an electoral asset. They said a lot of people are very uncertain about him as Prime Minister partly because of the last couple of years, the allegations of anti semitism, that have obviously been directed at the party for a very long time now, are you worried that is going to be an issue when people consider him as an issue when people consider him as a future Prime Minister . an issue when people consider him as a future Prime Minister . I say Jeremy Corbyn is the only politician in this house that can go to different parts of this country and command crowds of ten to 15,000, tell me what of the politician can do that, the answer is there isnt andi do that, the answer is there isnt and i have every confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. He is a man who was laid out the agenda for the labour party and who laid out the 2017 ma nifesto party and who laid out the 2017 manifesto and he is the man who will lead the liberal party to victory in 2019. Thank you very much. Such is the view from labour and i think the house of commons might be moving towards a vote. The ayes have it. Under the order of the house of today, we shall, well, it says here now, for which i may have to substitute the word shortly, move to committee of the whole house. I say that as much for the benefit to people outside of the elected chamber is for anybody else because i have collected the voices as the speaker is required to do and it is clear that there is an overwhelming majority in support of the second reading. From the second reading we proceed to committee. When they house sits in committee the speaker does not occupy the chair. That responsibility is taken by another, who will be wending his or her way to the chamber as i speak and i say that with some confidence, another chair will arrive to take up his or her important duties. Appointive order, alison mcgovern, i am deeply grateful for the honourable lady who may be indulged, it may be indulged at slightly greater length than would otherwise be granted. Point of order, alison mcgovern. Mr speaker is just taking a few points of order but he is basically waiting for the Deputy SpeakerLindsey Hoyle to arrive in chamber because we are moving on, there he is making his way in, because he is taking over to chair the next session because the house is going into a Committee Stage and the Committee Stage is not shared by the speaker himself. It is chaired by the Deputy Speaker for one of the Deputy Speakers and the senior Deputy Speaker is Lindsey Hoyle. Just getting ready for that to get under way but if you have justjoined us here on bbc news the house of commons has given a second reading, on the bill for a general election but were now going into the next stage where the bill might be amended. I know she did not seek that tribute but i prefer it graduates in any case because it has the advantage of being justified. I am extremely grateful. Under the order of the house of today we shall now move to committee of the whole house. Committee stage begins and the speaker vacates the chair. And the speaker vacates the chair. And the mice is being removed because this is now the Committee Stage and the mice is being put in this lower position as part of the tradition and we now have mr Deputy Speaker getting into Committee Stage itself. We begin with amendment to mark to close one and i will call cap smith to move an amendment to a mac which will be convenient given to member 14, close one, plus two and amendment three. I call cap smith to move amendments to mac. The Labour Amendment on the change of date to the night. The Prime Minister came into office promising to deliver brexit by october to 31st and he has failed. He has shown utter incompetence that he cannot be trusted. We have consistently said we will support a general election was no deal is absolutely off the table and when the a general election can be vexed in law. At politely grabbed grab the Prime Minister we have now reached that point. Which is why the time is right for a Labour Government for real change was that the purpose of a general election is to allow the largest possible number of people to participate and have a site on the future of the country. There are currently up to 9. 5 Million People in Great Britain who are not currently registered to about correctly and young people are less likely to register for the almost one third of young people less edge to 34 missing from the electoral roll and this means their views and interests are underrepresented. The government now well lots of people registered to build their loss i could do well in elections which is why the government has done nothing to tackle this issue. The paymaster even tried to fix the date of the general election in october to make it harderfor students to general election in october to make it harder for students to take part. Stu d e nts it harder for students to take part. Students must not be disenfranchised by an election date which would not allow them to about in their terms time address. This is the address where they will be living for the majority of the end where they rightly should be able to vote. I propose my commitment to fix the date of the general election for the 9th of december is the best possible way of ensuring the next general election is accessible. But we can do better than this which is why we would have supported had it been selected came to extend the franchise to 16 and 17 year olds and eu citizens were supposed it is because we recognise. They should have the right to vote on our future as well. Whatever data house the election will be the labour party is rated to get rid of the story government that has pushed Public Services into crisis and we we are ready to put forward our vision for a country where people get the care they need and from a properly funded nhs, a country where everyone regardless of their family background get the education they need to do well in life. A country where regions that have been held back at the investment they need and a chance to rebuild after a decade of neglect. A country where homelessness is a thing of the past and everyone can have access to safe affordable housing, a country that is led by a Prime Minister that puts the control of brexit back in the hands of people in a new referendum with a real choice between leave, i leave deal and remain. Labour is the only party that can and will let the people decide. This is a modern generation chance to rebuild in france for country which is why is this house to support this to ensure that this election is accessible as possible. That is the proposal to hold the election on the 9th of december, not the top as the government has said. 12. December, not the top as the government has said. 12. Thank you. It is a pleasure to speak at Committee Stage on this crucial bill asi Committee Stage on this crucial bill as i sit in the Closing Remarks of second reading this is a short sensible bill setting out the date of the next general election. The bill provides transparency and the date of election and shows it can be conducted in a timely way so that parliament can meet in good time ahead of the 31st of january deadline. The first because of the bill provides for a parliamentary general election to be held on the 12th of december 2019. I will shortly set out the reasons why this is the preferred date and why the government will be resisting the amendment in the name of the opposition. The second clause provides that the bill will come into force on the day it is past and deals with its short title. Ijust wa nt to deals with its short title. Ijust want to briefly touch on the subclauses in close one just to reassure members of this house. These are minor technical points. These are minor technical points. The first sub clause removes the requirement for ministers to review the welfare cap in the Current Parliament on the second sub clause ensures the reports that one place of ministers doesnt need to be completed in this parliament. So both subclauses essentially ensure these requirements will align with these requirements will align with the new parliamentary session following the election. This is the minister of the cabinet of his making the case to the government and the fact they have clipped shows in the 12th of december for the proposed date of the election itself of the we have just heard labour move the amendment for the 9th of december so lets just pop out of the chamber for a moment december so lets just pop out of the chamberfor a moment and bring in Maddy Thimont jack from the chamberfor a moment and bring in Maddy Thimontjack from the institute for government and Sebastian Payne from the financial times. Thanks are joining Sebastian Payne from the financial times. Thanks arejoining us. We are now into Committee Stage. We have heard the Deputy Speaker there and we have heard the initial skirmish over tights. Labour saying this is principally as i understood that there all about students. That was there all about students. That was the focus of the Labour Amendment. The government minister saying they would be firmly resisting. So where is this likely to go . It is not clear. They are for going to persist amendment to a vote and we will have to wait and see whether they can get the numbers. The big question is whether particularly labour are firmly behind the date change, the question is whether other opposition parties are also behind it, whether any other conservatives decide to come over or independence, a lot of them in this parliament. Its not quite clear how the votes were full at the moment. Sebastian, what is your reading and what are people telling you . I think it is petty politics going on here because in practical terms if we have an election on monday the ninth or thursday the 12th doesnt make any difference. And with those three extra days mentored to whether students are going to be at university or at home, it doesnt really matter. Its just about who is going to win and save face. The fa ct is going to win and save face. The fact is in the original proposal for single clause bill, it was the liberal democrats, snp who said we wa nt liberal democrats, snp who said we want an election on monday the ninth because they wanted as soon as possible but the government said there are good practical reasons to not have it on monday the ninth, thursday the 12th of much better. They say you have to pass legislation to make sure Northern IrishCivil Service is funded properly and they had to get as much time as possible to have preparations for polling day. But i think might ultimately happen here is if there amendment passes which looks quite likely because labour are going to back it, the snp and liberal democrats will back it, there may be some compromise that yesterday people in downing street for talking on a sliding scale between monday the ninth and thursday the 12th. Number 10 made it known to mps today they would accept thursday the 11th. , wednesday the 11th. We could end up on tuesday the tenth so everyone is just 11th. We could end up on tuesday the tenth so everyone isjust bickering about this date but ultimately i think you find a compromise those two. That is the essential thing, is the comprised possible and this just say if the opposition insists on monday the ninth, would Boris Johnson back away from this or not . It would be a remarkable move if they were to pull the whole bill because it feels like everybody is watching up the election hill. Jeremy corbyn has decided he wants this boat and the conservatives want this boat and the conservatives want this vote. To chuck the whole thing away over one day feels like it would be very silly. I think ultimately they will try and find a compromise and there will be lots of private conversations between the parties to figure out if they can coalesce around a tenth or 11th but at the moment labour doesnt want to met the government when on the 12th and the government dumped wasnt a labour win and the government dumped wasnt a labourwin on and the government dumped wasnt a labour win on the night. What is the truth behind the time needed and the working needed in order to put the election legislation and organisation into place, how much time do they need . Point about the Northern Ireland legislation is fair. You do need time to pass it. Although we know you can pass that legislation very quickly. Pretty much over Northern Ireland legislation that has through in the commons in the last two years has been done in a couple of days. So they can do it quite quickly but i think sebastian is right, it is all about politics. It is worth saying that the bill will have to go to the lords tomorrow if it is passed tonight and that might be where we see an amendment tabled from one side with the other that actually does contain that compromise that sebastien has just outlined. Does contain that compromise that sebastien hasjust outlined. When it goes to the lords it will be interesting on the other amendments to eu nationals and votes for 16 and 17 euros because it has been reacted despite rejected. They could be put back on the house of lords. Heres my try and put it on. There is a possibility there but if the common speaker view them out of spoke it is probably quite likely that the lord speaker would say the same thing. That is something to watch tomorrow and see whether opposition peers on the labour side and lib dems side try and put that back on so there is a compromise to be done, all the parties have essentially said they wa nt parties have essentially said they want an election and they can get the Northern Irish legislation through, they can get billing directly from monday the ninth if they need to, they are just saying they need to, they are just saying they can. A quick peep inside the commons again because the minister for the Cabinet Office is still wrapping up and while we look at these images i will ask both of you as we pull of the commons events, sticks now are very high. We have both front benches committed to an election before christmas, talking about dates and it is a matter of two or three days but can we tell viewers with any confidence that there will be election before christmas . I think it is overwhelmingly likely. Accounts, when you listen to Jeremy Corbyn and borisjohnson and jo when you listen to Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson and jo swinson, they we re Boris Johnson and jo swinson, they were giving election speeches, everyone has given up on the idea of a second referendum before an election were passing the legislation for brexit deal before an election so i think really the whole scent in westminster is this is happening and the parties are ready. It could all fall apart because it happens all the time in politics these days but it feels to me as if it is going to happen and thats what i imagine. Britain is going to the polls for a pre christmas pre brexit election. Inafew pre christmas pre brexit election. In a few words do you agree . pre christmas pre brexit election. In a few words do you agree . I think ido in a few words do you agree . I think i do agree. It seems inevitable despite particular now the labour frontbencher behind it. I dont think we see how it falls apart. They have to agree the date but it does seem most likely although a lwa ys does seem most likely although always wa nt does seem most likely although always want to contain a bit of doubt in these times. always want to contain a bit of doubt in these times. I think thats very wise. Thank you but very much. Good to see you back. Lets take a look at westminster on this rather fine but crispy evening and goodbye to you, thanks for watching the viewers on bbc news channel and bbc world, coverage continues throughout the evening, bye for now. The uk is heading for a general election in december after mps finally give it their backing. Mps have been debating the Prime Ministers plan to go to the polls on december the 12th. Borisjohnson says its time to give the people the choice. There is only one way to restore the esteem in which our democracy is held, and to recover the respect in which parliament should be held by the people of this country, and that is fine need to offer ourselves to the judgment of the people of this country. Jeremy corbyn says he changed his mind on a snap election after the eu agreed to give the uk another brexit extension. Were going out there to fight an Election Campaign, and i cant wait to get out there on the streets