For germanys die welt. The canadian broadcaster jeffrey kofman, suzanne lynch, who writes from washington for the irish times, and catherine pepinster, a commentator on religious affairs, and former editor of the tablet. The amazon, the lung of our planet, is burning. So tweeted emmanuel macron, the president of france, late thursday. Hes the host of the g7 summit, in biarritz this weekend, and proposed putting it on the agenda. Which, to jair bolsonaro, brazils president , is just so much hot air. After all, burning forest to clear land for cattle and the growing of soya is to meet a global demand, not least from western nations. Brazil exports more soya than any other country. Still, on friday, he bowed to the pressure and sent in the military to tackle the fires. Brazil isnt one of the self described advanced economies that make up the g7. China isnt either, but it lobbed an economic hand grenade on the eve of the summit, announcing fresh tariffs on american goods. Its all very well for these countries to be gathering for the g7 summit, but in truth, is this a significant event in terms of the economic prospects . It significant because it will clearly define the Division Within the western economies. Traditionally, the g7 or g8 as it was, represented a post Cold War Alliance of western economies based on globalisation, free trade, etc. What weve seen in the last couple of years is this division of the eu and its self styled vision of progressiveness, and now trump in the us, and caught in the middle, the uk, which weighed does it turn . On the backdrop to all this is a slowing global economy. China seeing its economy slowdown. Manufacturing in the us growing at levels lower than it has in the last ten years. The German Economy contracting. So there are all sorts of dramas going on. Add to that the latest trade war of tariffs and the tit for tat that exploded yesterday between trump and china, and there is a lot of reason to wonderjust how bad the economy could get. Just before donald trump left washington late friday night washington time, he lobbed one of his own. It reminds me of an uncle of mine, no longer with us, who could not show his affection, so instead he would twist your nose or twist your ear. And trump, twisting macrons nose, they are supposed to be great mates, by threatening to tax french wine. Not a serious intervention, is it . He has said it before, this is not the first time. Donald trump deals with threats. This happened dramatically on twitter, even by his standards, he hit out at china, hit out at his own chairman of the federal reserve, accusing them of disloyalty, and at the last moment threatened to tax french wine. That will threaten the eu. They have managed to stave off action from the us since last year. Focus on washington has been on the trade situation, relationships with china, canada and mexico. Thats not what they want to hear. Whatjeffrey was saying is right, donald trump does not look at threats to the economy and the collective. He sees the world working as individual nations protecting themselves, in all manners of speech, he is protectionist, essentially, when it comes to trade. The other thing he said was, the American Economy are strong. He said this on friday. And the other economies are not doing well. He says, if i am doing well, another country is not doing so well. But as we know, the complexities of global trade and globalisation means that the best way to tackle this is to work together. There doesnt seem to be any sign from donald trump that he will embark on this set of meetings with that kind of collective, multilateral approach. Catherine, there is something to be said for the trump johnson thing, boosterism, you talk up your prospects. You play an impressive game in terms of pr about how good your country is, how it is going to be leading on this or that. Borisjohnson pulls my current obsession is technology and Life Sciences in particular. He talks big on that. The danger is, if you are one of these International Civil servants, dare i say it, who tend to be quite conservative, the signals you send can start to affect the real economy. It is typical of all politicians to talk up their country. Emmanuel macron might believe in multilateralism, but he is also, for him, france first. But one of the things it shows is how personality, and character, is so important in politics. There was an era, particular when the late tony benn was around, when he used to talk about how politics should be about issues. He was to get rather irritated by the media focusing on personality. Absolutely. But politics nowadays is all about personality, isnt it . It is about the way trump behaves, the way he tweets. Borisjohnson is a Big Personality as well. And this is affecting the way politics is carried out. The world issues seems to be pushed aside full stop. The rulebook has been thrown out. Trumps freelance, shoot from the hip approach, it appeals to his base, has huge dangers. Already the cost to the American Consumer is estimated to be about 800 per household because of this rising tariff war in the us. The estimate is that if the new set of tariffs on another 300 billion go through, they will raise that cost to 1500. If you understand the fragility of the american household, there are huge numbers of people, as in the uk and europe, living on the margins, barely staying afloat. The idea of 1500 extra on their Household Bills is really crippling. That is where boosterism comes to the end of its usefulness. It will hit the facts of life on the ground. And if america too is going to go into recession, trump will see has his comeuppance and with those facts that speak against it. It is all very well, they are popularfigures, and im sure there is a boris bump in britain, and people warm to his way of protecting the country. But of course nothing can get away from the facts on the ground. And if the economy of the us is going to shrink, trump has it coming. You are right, a Strong Economy with a low Unemployment Rate has been a huge trump card, pardon the pun, for this president. 50 there are concerns within republican circles that if things change and there are headwinds, this could affect him. However, at this moment in american history, voters are less motivated to vote on economic issues. An opinion poll show this. It is no longer come up stupid . Its the economy, stupid. I think trump is such a divisive figure on both sides that people are motivated, i vote for him or against him, on this personality basis. The other issue is that so far it is early on in the democratic race to pick a candidate to take on trump next year. You lose track of the numbers. You do. Two big debates, i covered them in miami and detroit loss of their hours of debate between these candidates, but very little on the economy foster there were very few ideas from democrats about the economy. It will be interesting to watch in the next few months, how will democrats latch onto it if the economy struggles . What do you think we should take from this spat over the amazon between jair bolsonaro, that some would say trumpian politician, he is certainly populist, certainly sceptical of climate change, and emanuel macron . I noticed people are saying this will be the moment at the start of Boris Johnsons premiership where he will ally himself with trump. But when it comes to issues to do with the environment or climate change, johnson and trump do not appear to be on the same page. This is wherejohnson allies himself much more with the rest of europe. It will be interesting to see how that develops. Im sure they will spend a lot of time talking about the amazon, because it is such an important issue. As macron has said, the amazon is the lungs of the world. 20 of the oxygen we breathe is affected by the amazon and the role it plays in generating and protecting. Absolutely. And bolsonaro has been quick to say that the interventions of people like macron and the leader of ireland is all about colonialism. This is the threat of a trade treaty. Yes. He may think that, but at the same time, brazil has been ready to take aid from other nations, and also from ngos who have intervened over in brazil. So it seems to be a bit of doublethink to me. This is a subject where the church in latin america has played quite a political role. Absolutely. Politics with a small p, of course. The Catholic Church in latin america is characterised by activism. Youve perhaps heard of liberation theology. That has been very influential there. And priests and others in the church have spoken up a lot about what has been happening in the amazon. In fact, pope francis has called the synod of bishops from the amazon for october, they will gather in rome. Ecology is one of the key things they will be talking about. This has been going on for years. There was an american nun who was a big activist in the amazon. She spoke out about logging and about people setting fire to parts of the forest, and was effectively assassinated. The Catholic Church is now seeking to have her made a saint. She will be the first, i think, environmental marketer. That will raise the profile of this issue. Environmental martyr. In terms of the g7 is an institution, its not very institution, its just a gathering of leaders, but nonetheless it is regarded as symbolic. Is that symbolism out of date . When you think about economies as large as brazil or obviously china, not being around the table. Im afraid it is getting out of date. There is the Environmental Concern which is transcendental and goes across national boundaries. On top of it you have Major Players like china and brazil and india not being part of it. And what makes it worse, there is even a lack of unity amongst those seven member countries. I was interested to hear what you said about the Catholic Church. They are articulating religious fervour for the concern that we all share to keep our environment safe, which goes against the fervour of trump, the popular rhythm, as it were, that emerges. And you have a disjointed world, as it were. You have personalities vying for absolute victory over everything else, and you have Common Concerns like the environment, which again has nothing to do with what is to trump thinks or does not think, attacking, and you are dis jointing subject you are looking at. There is also that dilemma that everybody is concerned about global recession, but in some ways, a recession might actually be good for the planet. Because it will be almost breathing space if there is a major downturn. You wont hear Many Political leaders make that point to go back to your point about the g7, they have said they will be no joint communique, which is the first time since, 1975, it was the g5, this is the first time there will be no consensus, and it is easy to see when you have trump and johnson joining the other leaders from japan and europe and canada. There is nothing in common. These people have nothing to share. And so it really does speak of the anachronism it has become. Institutions need to evolve to reflect the world, thats not necessarily a bad thing. What is worrisome is the eu under attack, with nato under attack, all these institutions were born out of the ashes of world war ii, and the notion was, wouldnt it be better if we talk around the table, and knew each other personally . And i think there is a clear virtue in that. And if the g7 is going to disintegrate or implode, what follows, and what actually is affected . And trump of course call this week for russia to be readmitted to what was the gs. Already borisjohnson, already macron i said, that is not going to happen. It will be interesting in terms ofjohnsons relationship with trump, will that be a point of contention . And this lack of unity in the club, what is it day for people what does it do for people on the ground and their respect for politicians as people who are entitled and called for to govern wisely and with solutions . I think catherines point, one of the sobering realities, is that we see it, we are in this values based era where values almost seem to trump. And economics. And one of the ways that may be jolted is with true hardship. It is not something im advocating, at all, but i think that if economies are hurt, and people actually suffer, that may force them to reassess. But lets look at history carefully, and remember that when that happened in germany after world war i, they did not actually go through a period of enlightenment, they went through a period of extremism. And so we want to be careful of what we wish for. Indeed, a sobering thought to end on. We will stay with history. Such was the reputation for calculation and cunning of the 19th french diplomat tallyerand that when he dropped dead, the austrian chancellor metternich wondered aloud what did he mean by that . It felt a bit like that in berlin on wednesday. Borisjohnson was on his first trip abroad, lobbying Angela Merkel for support in his campaign to re negotiate the uks Brexit Agreement with the eu. Mrjohnson wants rid of the irish backstop dont worry, the new viewers start here section of the programme follows shortly but until now has received not a word of encouragement. Then, in the middle of theirjoint news conference, mrs merkel said maybe we can find that solution in the next 30 days. Thomas, what did she mean by that . If you ask me to divine what is in the mind of Angela Merkel, it is the toughest challenge for any commentator. I think she is driven by what was once famously said, how wonderfully it concentrates the mind when the day of execution is near. An october 31 is the day of execution for both the eu and the uk. And you have to have shown a willingness not to have let this happen by default. Youve got to think of something that might impinge on it, and turn it into something more hopeful. And the 30 day period she suggested this for britain to resolve. Johnson so far has not come up with an alternative solution to how to regulate ireland after the no deal exit. Did the Irish Government know she was going to say this, put the cat among the pigeons . I think theyve been trying, and a lot of the coverage from berlin has been trying to clarify exactly what she said, it wasnt going to become a solution in 30 days. As you are saying, thomas, she is so shrewd, she is putting the ball back in britains court, saying dont blame others. The rhetoric was, we want to engage. We are ready to talk, they just want to us. Yes, she is saying, we are ready to talk to, it was engaging, convivial, be convivial is strong, but it was better in terms of the dynamics. But the substance of what she said wasnt very different. They have 30 days to come up with an alternative backstop arrangement. But they have had three years to come up with an alternative. Im sure you spend endless time exlpaining to people at cocktail parties what the irish backstop is forced to explain it to us. The backstop is an insurance policy that is supposed to never be used, and this is to try to prevent a border being erected between the republic of ireland and Northern Ireland, which is part of britain. But the problem is, this has become the intractable problem of the issue. Because now britain will have a land border with the european union, but both the british and Irish Governments have said they dont want to erect a hard border. The backstop was seen as a way of preventing this, and brexiteers would fear it would keep too much regulatory alignment between the uk and the eu if it was kept. And therefore the uk wouldnt have left. Right. And dublin has said it is open to an alternative. The problem is that people are very sceptical about whether there will be any alternative presented in the next few weeks. It is notjust about regulation, is it . It is also about sense of identity. One of the things the good friday Peace Agreement established was this kind of flexible approach, you could be irish, british, you could be irish, northern irish, it didnt matter in the way it had done for so many years. Yes, and there has been a flow of people back and forth over that border. There are people who commute, there are people who head to dublin are to belfast for shopping, depended on which currency is beneficial. There has been this change of culture, and i think people are very anxious that that will change again, and will revert to what it has been. And i am hearing from people i know in Northern Ireland about reports of violence again, which we are not hearing about, particularly, in the uk. But it is they are under the surface. And the fact that we havent had a proper government in stormont for so long must add to these problems. Exactly. That is the other aspect of expelling to people. As well as brexit, there is an internal issue, that is that the assembly in Northern Ireland has not been functioning for more than three years at this stage. There is a political vacuum in Northern Ireland, ironically at the very time when Northern Irelands future is so in the balance with brexit, for both communities. There has been a real failure of politicians on both sides. So when parliament returns to westminster in september, that will be one of the big issues on their agenda. There is talk about direct rule, where london would roll directly in belfast. But just this week, a few days ago, there was a bomb attack in fermanagh just near the border. People described feeling their houses shaking. The Security Services in Northern Ireland have warned about the threat from dissident groups in the north. I think this also may help to focus minds on the next few weeks and months. Let me add one thing about the backstop. The 30 day period could have meant to refer to the document which we will also have to negotiate about the future economic relationship. And if goodwill can be seen to work, that will be an area where you really could propose a speeding up of the process. And when you have a functioning deal between the two