This has been more like a Nuclear Catastrophe for all of us. Now on bbc news Hardtalks Stephen Sackur talks shah faesal, sorry, but we dont have much time, president of the Jammu And Kashmir peoples movement. Let me end with thoughts about the international arena. On and off rain. Its not one solid area of rain that will be sweeping across the country, welcome to hardtalk, its sort of like bits of rain, im stephen sackur. So it will come and go, when the Indian Government revoked hit and miss really through the afternoon. And then actually later in the day, the special autonomous it looks as though some of these status ofJammu And Kashmir, Western Areas could brighten up it knew outrage would follow, and thats because the weather front which is why delhi has will be pulling away imran khan, Prime Minister towards the east. The muslim majority of pakistan, has compared then come thursday, what the indians we are inbetween weather systems, himalayan territory have done to nazism. One out there in the atlantic in a form of lockdown. Weve heard less from ready for the weekend, troops patrol the streets, the International Community but on thursday, before it arrives, the us, the uk, other countries have hundreds of local politicians been remarkably silent the weathers looking about what india has done. And activists have been detained, and communication links absolutely fine. Have been cut. Are you therefore reliant on help so after a cloudy, damp wednesday, from pakistan or do you believe youll get support from the world . Thursday, more sunshine on the way. Temperatures will get im extremely disappointed up to 23 degrees with the way International Community because therell be more has responded to this issue. Sun around, obviously, people have to understand even nudging up to 20 or sojust that kashmir is. About across northern england. You know, its three Nuclear Powers i think for stornoway, claiming right to this territory. No more than around 15. Its a nuclear flashpoint. My guest today is shah faesal, its a powderkeg, and this now, heres the low leader of the Jammu And Kashmir cannot be left unattended. Pressure that swings in off the atlantic on friday. Peoples movement. Any sort of aggression by any how will kashmiris channel their anger, and how much support of these three states can lead will they get . To a nuclear war in this region. We just hope that the entire International Community will rise up to the occasion and take notice of the Human Rights Violations which are happening in kashmir due a lot of isobars there, so, you guessed it, to this unprecedented curfew thats the winds will be been placed, and the pretty strong as well, unconstitutional act thats been gusting to around 40mph around these done in the parliament western and southern coasts. Of india in recent times. Now the rain probably wont reach 0n the specific point the east of the country until a lot later in the day, so that means places like say brighton, london, norwich, hull, may actually get away about pakistan, india of course with a fairly decent first half to friday. The rain may not reach shah faesal in delhi, london until friday night, welcome to hardtalk. For example. But for wales and the south west, thank you very much. Consistently accuses its looking pretty wet on friday of the pakistani government and the temperatures only of interfering, meddling around, say, 17 19 degrees and sponsoring terrorism in kashmir. At least for most of us. There you sit in indias capital, do you believe that the climate but im sure your thoughts then friday night, that low pressure is now right for pakistan continues to make its journey are with the people of kashmir. Towards the east and come to actually play more saturday and sunday, of a role inside kashmir . Its going to turn very what are the latest reports will there be kashmiris blustery in the uk. You are hearing of what is happening gusts of wind in some looking for pakistani help . In your home territory in terms areas could be approaching 50mph. I think pakistan has behaved so another very windy weekend of the curfew and the lockdown . Potentially on the way. Bye bye. Because indian Authorities Say they have begun like an International Ngo about this to gradually ease it. Entire issue, wringing its hands it is the eighth day of curfew, and the news that i am getting and showing tremendous amounts from kashmir is that it of helplessness when it comes to this issue. Continues to be the same we are always hoping that india and pakistan can sit together around 8 Million People and resolve this issue. Continue to be under incarceration, roads are deserted, mosques are closed. India and pakistan have 70 years it is very hard to move to figure this out among themselves, around, the communication and now theyve not i think its the job of the International System is completely down. Community to come in and help these telephone lines are not two belligerent neighbours to make working, mobile phones. Peace with each other, and, at the same time, recognise that the primary People Living outside kashmir stakeholders of the dispute are the people of kashmir and the voices of kashmir need have been unable to talk to be heard. To their families for the past eight days. There is a shortage of food materials, people are unable to figure out what is happening. There has been an absolute its always been that the narratives clampdown on the protests, and the presence of Security Forces of kashmir are mixed has been unprecedented. With the narratives people are unable to reach out about pakistan and india. To their political leaders. I think its about time people all political leaders recognise kashmiris deserve to have agency over theirfuture and the voices of kashmiris need the surprising side of this to be heard. Crackdown has been that all of them are under shah faesal, we have to end there but i thank you very much arrest at this time. Indeed forjoining me from delhi. 00 03 43,719 4294966103 13 29,430 thank you very much. It is a scene out of a partition novel. You say all local politicians in kashmir are under arrest orfacing intimidation, and yet you are speaking to me from delhi, and i happen to know that in the last week you have been able to go to srinagar and attend political meetings. It suggests to me that perhaps you are exaggerating the extent of the control from india just a little bit. Most of the political leaders who belong to my political party, and all other Political Parties, have been detained. I am the only person from my own Party Meeting which met in srinagar on august the fourth, this is the briefing im sally bundock. Our top story after days who is free and freely speaking. Of violent protests and thousands of cancelled flights, i am ashamed of myself that i am free at a time where the entire calm descends upon Hong Kong Administration of kashmir are in airport, but can it last . Jail and have been imprisoned. Do you think in all honesty a year after genoas deadly bridge collapse theyre rebuilding the crossing, when this interview was done but can they ever rebuild trust . And perhaps over the next few days blasted over brexit uk pm borisjohnsons accused that you will try to go back of betraying british voters and wrecking chances of a deal kashmir, do you think with the eu, by the former you will be free for long . Police have come to my chancellor of the exchequer. Home a couple of times after i left, and it is also a story in itself that we reached is europes economic the airport and came to delhi. Engine hitting the brakes . Germany faces the threat of Economic Contraction thanks to prolonged because of communication breakdown, people could not communicate to their higher ups about my escape from the airport. I am very much apprehensive that soon after i leave from here i will be detained like anyone else. You are the leader of the Jammu And Kashmir peoples movement. Obviously one of quite a number of different Political Parties in kashmir. What is your message to your own Party Supporters and to the wider public . Do you want to see people take to the streets and try to resist what you have called indias occupation . If you look at what has happened on the fifth of august is that the entire political mainstream, people like me who believe in electoral politics and who saw some sort of resolution coming within the framework of the indian constitution, we people have been rendered without an argument. Most of the leaders, including two former chief ministers are under arrest at this time. When you talk about the mobilisation, it has been impossible for people to mobilise protests in the past week, because of unprecedented security presence in kashmir. But i am aware that there are going to be spontaneous eruptions in kashmir the moment restrictions are relaxed a little bit and people like me and the entire leadership in kashmir, im not sure if anybodys call will be heeded or listened to. It seems you are calling for calm, because i saw this quote from you just the other day you said the government seems to be preparing for casualties numbering 8,000 10,000. Sanity demands that we dont give anyone a chance for a massacre. My appeal is that we should all stay alive and then we shall fight back. So, right now you are telling people to stay home . I think this is a sign of the majority of the people. 200,000 Security Forces out to kill anybody who is going to raise a voice of dissent. So i think this is a sign of majority that people are not reacting that way. But im sure kashmiris will give a more calibrated, more seasoned, long term organic sustainable response to what has been done by the indian state. This act of indignation that has been done to the people of kashmir, im sure this will not go unprotested. This decision by the Indian Government to revoke article 370, to end the special autonomous status of kashmir, it can hardly have been a surprise to you. After all, mr modis bjp party has put it into their manifesto for many elections, and after their thumping win in the last election it was speculated by many that this time they have a mandate to do it. The surprise is that india claims to be the greatest democracy in the world. In spite of mr modi being there in the country, we believe there are institutions of democracy that will protect the constitution. So the Biggest Surprise this time is the way it has been done. If you look at the constitutional history of the state, if you look at how article 370 has developed in the past 70 years, i think all the jurists in this country have been of one opinion that it is impossible to revoke these guarantees following the constitutional procedure. So today, what has been done is by resorting to complete illegality, by completely murdering the constitution in the house of people of this country, that is something that surprises us. Otherwise, we always knew that bjp wanted to abolish these protections as part of the larger agent of Akhand Bharat or maybe having a hindutva kind of philosophy in this country, but the way that it was done, brought daylight, how the constitution was murdered by these people, these two supermen who have come to rule this country, i think it is something that surprised everybody who had faith or belief that india is the greatest democracy in the world. What about my point about a democratic mandate . This Jammu And Kashmir reorganisation bill just sailed through the indian parliament. In the lower house it won a majority of 370 72. As you are a self professed democrat, surely that represents a mandate. It does represent a mandate, but parliament is not there to demolish the principles of democracy, parliamentarians cannot become a voice for the majority. Thats our problem. Who will then represent the minority populations of this country . When you talk about diversity in india, it is tremendous. It is 1. 3 billion people being represented in that house of people. 0ur problem is that when parliament resorts to unconstitutional methods. What has been done to Jammu And Kashmir today can be done to any other state tomorrow, so if parliament is out to demolish the federal structure of this country, that is something which i believe the parliament doesnt have the mandate for, and even also we must take notice that the Supreme Court of india has laid down a doctrine or basic structure of the constitution. There are certain things the parliament can also not change. We believe these articles, article 370, the Supreme Court has laid it down. We believe they are part of that basic structure that the parliament cannot change. I suppose the logic of the opposition is that this will end up in the Supreme Court and i know there are various legal challenges to the revocation decision, which are going to head towards the Supreme Court, but lets face it, the court today has issued a ruling saying it wont intervene in the decision of the curfew and the lockdown, saying that the government has every right to impose this policy and let things stabilise. It is not clear the court is going to be on your side. If the parliament represents the majoritarian sentiment, then courts should represent the minority sentiment, that is our understanding. As of now we are about to challenge these articles. Some Political Parties have already filed petitions. I know it is going to be a long battle. It wont be easy for the Supreme Court also to undo what the majoritarian government, the bullying government, has done in this country. I know it will be hard for Supreme Court justices to stand for the cause of truth. You make your passionate points about the constitution, but is there not a way of looking at this that is much more pragmatic and technocratic . You yourself i think pride yourself on being something of a technocrat. Mr modi makes the point that by imposing a form of direct rule lets face it, direct rule from delhi to Jammu And Kashmir he says there will be a lot more development. All citizens will be guaranteed their rights but he says there will be new investment in infrastructure, the people ofJammu And Kashmir will have more opportunities, morejobs, and in the long run it will benefit the people. I think this is a completely mischievous narrative that has been built around abolishing article 370. If you look at india, which is now 28 states, jammu and Kashmir State has developmental indicators better than many other such states. If you look at the levels of equality inJammu And Kashmir, at longevity, at the gdp per capita, if you look at the total fertility rates and other demographic indicators, it might surprise the people that Jammu And Kashmir has better indicators than all many such states that do not have such protections. Article 370 was responsible it was the protection, basically, for very successful land reforms that took place in the state of Jammu And Kashmir, and such land reforms have not been done anywhere else in the country. If i may also say, sorry to interrupt, but article 370 also in a sense ring fenced some deeply sexist policies and constitutional realities inJammu And Kashmir, and as mr modi has said he hopes that people will see that, for example, the kashmir permanent residence law, which jammu and Kashmir State had imposed, bars female residents from Property Rights in the event that they marry a person from outside the state. Mr modi makes the point that that is not right, and by imposing direct rule. That has been an evolving law, and there has been a conscious, constant debate that we need to give those protections and rights to women, and the high court ofJammu And Kashmir has settled that matter. Those protections and rights have been extended to women who marry nonstate subjects from Jammu And Kashmir. I can guarantee that we have been telling the government of india to leave it to the government of Jammu And Kashmir, leave it to the state assembly. The state assembly will correct all of those anomalies if they are there. I can tell you with complete confidence that all of these excuses are being now raised, because of the larger agenda of assailing the special identity of the state, changing the demographics of the state, attacking the constitutional protections, which were always part of the bjps idea, which is that we only want one constitution, one flag, one symbol, one president , one Prime Minister in the country. That is an idea of monochromatic lack of diversity of the bjp, where it doesnt respect minorities or multiple cultures. It mainly has extreme contempt for anything that is related to muslims. I think that is something that was being used. My question then is where do you go from here . As i say, you had a reputation that when you formed your party of being a pragmatist, a technocrat, you had