Youre just about up to date with the headlines. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk, im stephen sackur. Ireland is bracing itself for the scariest of halloween nightmares. Prime minister borisjohnson has pledged to take the uk out of the eu on october the 31st come what may. That may very well mean a no deal brexit, with potentially damaging economic consequences for the uk, but also for eu nations, most particularly ireland. My guest is neale richmond, chair of the irish senates brexit committee. Can ireland prevent itself becoming the Collateral Damage in a brussels london showdown . Neale richmond in dublin, welcome to hardtalk. Thanks for having me on. Lets start with Boris Johnson, hardtalk. Thanks for having me on. Lets start with borisjohnson, new Prime Minister. He has changed the dynamic of the brexit process, because he says britain is leaving on october the 31st come what may. How has ireland adapted to this new borisjohnson how has ireland adapted to this new Boris Johnson dynamic . How has ireland adapted to this new Boris Johnson dynamic . Will, being quite frank, for us in ireland and across the eu, the change in british Prime Minister doesnt actually mean we need to change at all. Ultimately the uk is still intent on leaving the eu as they voted for in the referendum and we still intend to allow them to leave but make sure they keep their responsibilities as a departing member. We had a fair agreement over 18 torturous months that needed fair negotiation on both parties. Nothing has changed otherwise. I must confess, im very surprised to hear you say nothing has changed because surely in the real world of politics, the fact theres now a Prime Minister in the uk is absolutely intent on leaving the eu even if, with a no deal, that makes a big difference because theresa may quite clearly wanted to do almost everything to avoid a no deal. Things have changed. Well, things may have changed in london and indeed the rhetoric may have changed but the facts of the matter havent. Ultimately the uk has decided to leave the eu, theyve triggered article 50 of the lisbon treaty, but we on the european side consistently stand to protect the european principles and indeed to ensure the uk meets its responsibilities, that we have those legal guarantees for european citizens living in the uk and british citizens living across the eu, that the uk meets its responsibilities in terms of financial payments to see off commitments that theyve made that they receive a massive return on, but equally we have a mechanism that keeps the border on the island of ireland open, to ensure the good friday agreement, the fragile peace deal only 21 years owed, the fact that. That that is protected and there is no hardening of the border and that we can go forward. When you go through that list, i do get the feeling nothing has changed but there are new elements, not least there are new elements, not least the language coming from some of your senior officials in ireland. Simon cove knee, foreign minister, deputy pm, he said the other day that Boris Johnson deputy pm, he said the other day that borisjohnson is putting the uk ona that borisjohnson is putting the uk on a collision course with ireland and the eu. Do you think that was helpful . I think that was a Fair Assessment about whats been happening in london over the past few weeks. Weve definitely seen a sterner line from the new Prime Minister, his cabinet colleagues and some of his advisers hes appointed but the real facts of the matter are quite clear. For the uk to leave by october the 31st in a managed fashion, the Withdrawal Agreement needs to be ratified by westminster. Another element that may be changing is pressure, pressure on dublin s. Here are the words of an influential economist in your capital city, Dermot Oleary from goodbody stockbrokers, he says as the economic and political carnage of a no deal looms ever closer, ireland will likely come under pressure to relax its position in favour of an option that avoids the no deal outcome. Are you feeling that pressure . The key line from dermot, and hes someone i know personally and hes someone i know personally and hes someone i know personally and hes a very credible economist i rate the highly, says its likely but ireland hasnt come under any pressure from any European Partners and in the last weeks weve seen continued support from the new European Commission president , ursula von der leyen, and the Incoming European Council president , as well as heads of state, government and new members of the european parliament. Ultimately, for the eu, when a member decides to leave, they need to do it in a manner that respects their responsibilities and the uk has serious responsibilities that need to be met. Interesting you say theres been no change inside the eu but i can cite you some change right now. The polish foreign minister said a time limited backstop, and its the backstop so much at the centre of this dispute between the eu and britain about the withdrawal and the polish fm said a time limited backstop is much more favourable than a no deal brexit. Therefore, if ireland turned to the eu about changing the withdrawal with regard to provisions on the backstop so it would only apply temporarily, lets say a backstop for five years, then the matter would be resolved. Theres no unanimity in europe anymore and the polls for one are suggesting you guys need to more flexible. Actually because that statement by the polish foreign minister isnt new, hes raised it at european meetings already three times and its in contrast with the opinion of the polish Prime Minister who has backed at European Council level this Withdrawal Agreement bill system. If we look at a statement from a number of heart brexit supporting erg members, they say evenif supporting erg members, they say even if the backstop is removed, things wont change and Boris Johnson himself during his tory Leadership Campaign said a time limit or a unilateral mechanism isnt enough. Things havent changed from the european side and we very much see the backstop as being central to the withdrawal but crucially that backstop is an insurance policy, not a final destination. No one ever wants to see it destination. No one ever wants to seeitinvoked, destination. No one ever wants to see it invoked, we want to see it either so the uk and the eu can negotiate a new deep and meaningful trade, customs and regulatory deal that means theres no need for a hardening of the border on the island of ireland. Equally there is no need for a heightening of the border at the irish sea. As were talking about pressures and what might happen in a no deal brexit, especially with the irish economy, i suppose the question for you and your colleagues in government end is are you prepared to see your countrys economy go off a cliff at the end of october . Thats not a choice for us. Everything about brexit is a british decision, a british decision voted bya decision, a british decision voted by a small majority of british citizens and backed by westminster. We are simply trying to limit the damage. The economic hit to ireland in anyform damage. The economic hit to ireland in any form of brexit will be bad and no deal will of course be very bad, but this sudden rush to try to pin everything on ireland and blame ireland and weve heard really u nfortu nate ireland and weve heard really unfortunate rhetoric in the press and from the backbenches in the uk is unnecessarily. This is ultimately a british decision and british responsibilities, the answers to which lie in westminster. No flexibility and no new ideas from dublin despite all the doomsday al analysis from your own governments various economic committees and finance ministry talking about almost 100,000 jobs at risk in the short to medium term. Talking about gdp going down by at least 5 in a no deal scenario. Also that your exports, of course 12 go to the uk, they would be in desperate trouble but also the bridging exports that go through to europe through the uk, all of this potentially catastrophic and youre saying to me theres no way we consider changing our position. Stephen, this goes down the route that brexit is solely about economics. In ireland, our European Partners, the most important thing is to preserve very fragile peace on this island. I grew up fragile peace on this island. I grew up in the troubles and i come from a mixed political background, unionist Family Living in the south happily pa rt Family Living in the south happily part of ireland in the eu. We know what i hard border looks like and we know what army patrols look like and what watchtowers look like and we know what watching bbc and itv and any news Network Every night for a new terrorist atrocity looks like. Thats what we want to avoid first and foremost. Thats the european position. If you look at the 18 tortuous months that went into negotiations that require compromise from the eu to come to a scenario where we do have a situation that we can where we do have a situation that we ca n allow where we do have a situation that we can allow for a new relationship that doesnt allow for the hardening of the border, thats the key. This notion that somehow we can tweet the backstop and change the withdrawal or do something magical in the next couple of weeks is absolute nonsense and it messes the key point of this matter. Brexit is a very, very serious decision taken by the british people. The responsibility of which lies with the British Government and throwing all the blame on island and focusing on the very real economic trouble that will present itself to this island, trouble that would pale in comparison to the economic decline on Great Britain, doesnt do anyone any favours at this critical stage. Let me tease out the logic of what youre saying, youre saying the backstop is vital because you cannot afford to see a hard border on the island of ireland because of the implications it would have and the damage it would do to peace in Northern Ireland on the island of ireland, and yet you know that if on october the 31st theres a no deal brexit, which looks increasingly likely because of the stand taken by borisjohnson, likely because of the stand taken by Boris Johnson, and likely because of the stand taken by borisjohnson, and it has to be said, the position by you and the eu as well, there will indeed be a hard border. Youre going to have the hard border a nyway youre going to have the hard border anyway but youre going to have the hardboard plus anyway but youre going to have the ha rdboa rd plus catastrophic anyway but youre going to have the hardboard plus catastrophic economic downloads. So wheres the gain in that . No gain in brexit, as ive said multiple times and to be honest, the stand weve taken with our european colleagues hasnt been or arduous. Brexit is a british decision and weve reacted to that decision and weve reacted to that decision and we worked with british politicians and officials to produce a complex agreement to avoid the worst case scenario. Ill get to that, stephen. Lets get to the logic of what is happening right now. Your saying the island of ireland cant afford a hard border, and yet we are heading headlong towards a no deal brexit and a hard border. Are you therefore saying that if that comes to pass, as far as ireland is concerned, the good friday agreement, peace in Northern Ireland, is all destroyed . No, thats completely far fetched analysis and again it puts everything on island. I must stress, the responsibility lies with the uk. It goes back to the referendum, when theissue it goes back to the referendum, when the issue on island was never discussed once in the campaign. What is the point constantly rehearsing the fact that the real blame lies in london, lets go back to the referendum,. I never london, lets go back to the referendum,. I never voted london, lets go back to the referendum,. I never voted for brexit. Lets talk about three tortuous years of lugosi asian. The fa ct tortuous years of lugosi asian. The fact is in politicians and other forms of life, we are where we are and you in your government have to ta ke very and you in your government have to take very big crucial decisions in the next few weeks that will or will not aid the next few weeks that will or will notaid and the next few weeks that will or will not aid and about a no deal brexit and the imposition of a hard border on the island of ireland. Is that what youre ready to do . Firstly, its not just on what youre ready to do . Firstly, its notjust on the Irish Government, we negotiated as part of aeu27 government, we negotiated as part of a eu 27 and thats often lost in the debate, this is a european united position. Weve seen the backstop and Withdrawal Agreement bill produced under difficult situations, i wont go through it again, but the counterbalance in london is chaos. This is the biggest political chaos since the corn was with no consistency and people are talking about the brady amendment and the Kit Malthouse compromise and alternative arrangements, these provide no operational effectiveness and we need a legal basis to protect the peace. Were not getting the alternative from the uk. Were getting a wall of noise and confusion from westminster consistently. The British Government has responsibilities and they cant walk away from those and try to blame it on an Irish Government or the European Union thats been consistently working in a mature way to get a compromise agreement. We are well aware of the very, very negative impacts of a no deal brexit that isnt our choice. There are some voices in ireland who are beginning to doubt the wisdom of your governments stand, and they are controversial voices and they get stamped down pretty darn quickly but listen to the words of timmy dooley, a fairly senior politician in the opposition fianna fail party, he tweeted that the with the uk right now is a direct result of Leo Varadkars failure to engage in basic diplomacy in more than two yea rs. Basic diplomacy in more than two years. The Irish Governments lack of experience and arrogance is going to hurt island in the coming months. So irish unanimity on this issue is breaking down . No, stephen, because in more detail, to me has deleted that tweet. Because he faced so much pressure. His own party leader put it out. I know, because in ireland right now, theres. In Northern Ireland, in the european elections, over 60 of people voted for backstop supporting parties. Theres not a crack in unanimity. To me and other people are trying to put this on the Irish Government. To me is pointing to a position that in ireland it is difficult to air, because the political establishment in your country is adamant that ireland Must Stand Firm against all this pressure from london but there are people in ireland who are wondering whether right now this is in effect cutting off your nose to spite yourface, in effect cutting off your nose to spite your face, because you in ireland are going to be hurt most. What timmy dooley is trying to do was score cheap domestic political points with a personal attack on the taoiseach taken out of context. We know the impact of brexit and the support for the backstop is universal. Theres dissenting voices in some columns in newspapers, some saying island with leave the eu, favoured by only 7 of the population but ive met these people and debated with them countless times, what is the backstop to alternative to the backstop . The backstop wasnt an irish creation, it was a british one based on british red lines. The backstop provides an element of assurance and guarantee for that piece and allows us guarantee for that piece and allows us to move into something. Weve not been presented. With respect, stephen, the british establishment in anyform stephen, the british establishment in any form havent created a credible alternative. You know better than i that many british politicians from Boris Johnson to dominic raab, now the foreign secretary, to people like Iain Duncan Smith have said that there are viable alternative arrangements and they talk about the ways in which Electronic Technologies can be used away from the border to make sure that the flow of goods and people across the border is unhindered, and they say that clear evidence, including the views of people like former chief of the her majestys revenue and customs, her mans customs and revenue in the uk, that this can be done but you dont want to hear that because you insist that a hard border is essentially what londons trying to impose on dublin. No, stephen, thats completely off point. What we said, and if you look at the withdrawal of, alternative arrangements are allowed for. They would come in before any type of a backstop would kick in. However, what weve said, and weve looked through the draft reports, if you question the politicians and people youve mentioned, the second and third question, there is no answer and they cant provide evidence of these technologies in operation and if you look at the report by the alternative arrangements commission, who i met with and weve discussed this and looked at this, and on one hand they propose a solution for cytostatic and sanitary controls that would sea island potentially exit the Single Market and controls that would end up doubling the border on the island of ireland and they talk about comparisons with sweden and switzerland and turkey and the us and canada, irrelevant heres a really important question then, what is happening right now, and you sit on the Senate Brexit committee, whats happening in ireland right now in terms of preparing for this increasingly likely no deal brexit . Are you indeed looking at putting back checks on the border, hundreds of customs and other personnel, security personnel, put back on that border . Whats the border going to look like post october the 31st if there no deal . We dont have a concrete a nswer there no deal . We dont have a concrete answer for that and thats what people have to remember, this is an unprecedented event where both sides, the uk and the eu, but ireland in particular, have responsibilities and were discussing with the Eu Commission officials about the alternatives but ultimately what we keep coming back to is regulatory alignment and customs arrangements that make up with the backstop. Weve gone through so many different parts. Were not planning to put up with a border but if a no deal scenario, a crash out, is allowed by london, what we have is ireland having clear responsibilities to the european Single Market but ultimately the uk having clear responsibilities to the wto and any future trading relationship and both sides having a clear responsibility to the good friday agreement. We lose control but brexit was meant to be about taking back control. We lose control over the border that we act on as co guarantors of the peace treaty. We wa nt co guarantors of the peace treaty. We want to negotiate a new trade, customs and regulatory relationship between the eu and the uk that makes everything to do with the backstop and Everything Else redundant. We cant get there if we dont have the insurance. Throughout this interview, you have said, look, the answer to all of this lies in london, not in dublin, and ive noticed frankly the frown that youve borne through much of this interview. What do you think this interview. What do you think this crisis, and lets call it a crisis, is doing to the long term future for anglo irish relations . Youve talked about the inflammatory language coming out of the uk press. Im looking here at an article in the Daily Telegraph in london written by theresa mays former adviser, nick timothy, who accuses your pm leo varadkar of weapon rising the Northern Irish border. So my question is to, what happens from here on into anglo irish relations . You know, im not actually a very frown person but i think back to 2011 when the queen came to ireland for the first ever state visit by a royal and a couple of years later Michael Higgins visited the uk and we saw irish people happily supporting the English Soccer Team andi supporting the English Soccer Team and i cheered with greatjoy to an irishman left the cricket world cup for england a couple of weeks ago. We can get back to a good place but now is a difficult time but the one thing ill say is our ministers and politicians are talking more now than they have over the past two decades. There was a particularly warm relationship with the former chancellor of the duchy of lancaster. Hang on, im going to stop you, before you start. Well, neale richmond, before you start painting some rosy picture of the future for anglo rl relations, let me put this to you. After whats potentially a no deal brexit then the eu has to decide whether to do a Free Trade Agreement the uk and you have suggested that will be extraordinary difficult and people in the uk who think it will be easy to deliver our living in a fa ntasyla nd. To deliver our living in a fa ntasyland. Youve also to deliver our living in a fantasyland. Youve also suggested, alongside many others in ireland, that the uk will find it very difficult to do a trade deal with the United States unless they address all the issues connected with the good friday agreement and Northern Ireland. I would put into you that the long term prospect is ofan you that the long term prospect is of an extremely sour relationship between you guys end up and the British Government. But that can be rescued very easily, stephen. Looking at those comments, they wont made by me in relation to they wont made by me in relation to the trade deal, Michel Barniers number two, has gone on to the head of dg trade in the commission, has said no trade deal would be negotiated with the eu and the uk u nless negotiated with the eu and the uk unless the three issues would be addressed in. In the us, congressmen ritchie neil, chairman of the house ways and Means Committee and Speaker Nancy Pelosi have said they wont pass a trade deal, remember Congress Passes trade deals, without the uk meeting obligations under the good friday agreement. What i want to put into the situation is relations are good. There were extremely testing times and ill be quite clear, the rhetoric is disappointing and misleading from certain elements of the back benches and indeed certain elements of the media. Many people who happily want to paint ireland and our Taoiseach Leo Varadkar as the people to blame for this scenario, but ultimately underneath that i fundamentally believe the relations in a post brexit era, depending on how we do brexit, can return to quite good levels of warmth. Nothing will be as good as what we have now, lets be clear, but if you look at the good friday agreement itself, stephen, and this is quite clear, that allows for ireland, unlike any other eu remaining 27 to have a far deeper relationship, be it through the intergovernmental conference of the british irish trade Ministers Council and so many other tools. That could be a great aspect for ireland and the uk working closely together with ireland still within the eu and the uk allowing itself to depart. However. Were nearly out of time and theres one more important issue we havent touched on and thats the possible long term unification of ireland being hastened by a no deal brexit. Isnt that the truth that many in ireland feel it will lead to a new debate in Northern Ireland and that ultimately it will perhaps speed up the so called border poll where Northern Ireland people will vote on whether they want to join the republic in an unified island . Thats they want to join the republic in an unified island . Thats what many people in the republic ireland want to happen, isnt it . Some people want, sinn fein talk about that anytime they are asked for a solution on brexit even though they wont take their seats in westminster but weve been consistent that any talk of a border poll or in unification at this stage is unhelpful and misses the political reality that despite the vote and Northern Ireland voting to stay in the eu, the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland support unionist parties and candidates and we respect that and its the responsibility of the british secretary of state for Northern Ireland to decide under the good friday agreement and principle of consent whether anything has changed in Northern Ireland that would lead toa in Northern Ireland that would lead to a border poll being asked. We dont want to do that, we respect the decision of Northern Ireland to stay pa rt the decision of Northern Ireland to stay part of the union and we dont wa nt to stay part of the union and we dont want to see a hardening of the border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain and equally we dont wa nt Great Britain and equally we dont want a hardening of the borderfrom north to south. Neale richmond, we have to end there but i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. Good morning. Weather across the uk at the moment is stuck in repeat mode, isnt it . Sunshine and showers. Now, if you dodge the showers and you get the best of the sunshine just like we had yesterday in suffolk, a beautiful day, temperatures peaking into the mid 20s, but some of the showers were really quite torrential, as you can see from this weather watcher picture sent in on tuesday afternoon from birmingham. Today, the area of low pressure will be sitting to the north of scotland. Thats where most of the frequent showers will be and with lighter winds here, theyll be pretty slow moving as well. Elsewhere, a breezy day and we start off with a decent slice of sunshine coming through but there will be showers out to the west which will drive in across the country on a brisk south westerly wind. Now, for england and wales, the showers fairly isolated into scotland, particularly eastern scotland. Theyll be quite heavy, slow moving and torrential times, so weather warnings remain in force. A blustery day however you look at it. If you dodge the showers, you keep some sunshine. Again, we could see temperatures peaking into the mid 20s but underneath the cloud, with the showers, a disappointing 16 degrees, lets say, for aberdeen. As we move out of wednesday, that low pressure will drift off into the north sea and its going to allow this ridge of high to build, so on thursday, not a bad day, certainly the best day for getting out and spending some time outside. That doesnt mean to say well rule out the showers completely, there will be one or two isolated ones particularly across northern scotland and maybe into the south. And eventually, by the end of the day, the cloud will gather here. But not a bad day for many and temperatures again, 16 24 celsius, thats 75 fahrenheit. I hope you can get out and make the most of it because by the end of thursday into friday, weve got an unusually deep area of low pressure for this time of year, bringing wet and eventually some windy weather with it. So if youve got outdoor plans, if you are under canvas over the next few days and towards the weekend, please keep abreast of the forecast. Heavy rain will move through northern england, scotland and Northern Ireland, leaving a trail of sharp showers behind and the winds really starting to pick up gusts in excess of 40 50mph as we go through the end of the day. In terms of the feel of things, 16 23 degrees, rain, its going to feel yet again pretty miserable and as we move into the weekend, that area of low pressure will sit across the far north of scotland and its to the southern flank of the low where the winds will really start to pick up and that could be an issue so its worth bearing in mind, friday, heavy rain and the winds will start to strengthen. By saturday, we could see gales across the country. There you go, take care. Welcome to bbc news im mike embley. Our top stories the fbi says the gunman who killed nine people in dayton, ohio had an interest in violent ideologies. President trump will visit later on wednesday a breakdown in brexit talks. Britain says the eu wont negotiate brussels says its waiting for clarification from london. It is the eu saying they are not interested. They are saying no, we do not want to talk. That is wrong and sad and not in europes interests. 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