Now on bbc news, its hardtalk. I forced myself to learn how to not give into the fear. I would not let fear rule me. Welcome to hardtalk, im stephen sackur. There are some human experiences which most of us find very hard to get our heads around. As a result, you got the pain and the brutality even worse. We were seeing a lot. My guest today experienced they referred to us troublemakers and ringleaders. The unimaginable torment of more and had no idea of the political than four decades in solitary confinement in a tiny cell in one foundation or the philosophy, that motivated us to fight of americas most notorious prisons. Against injustice and inhumanity. Albert woodfox was the victim a horrible physical condition, of ingrained racism and brutality the lack of clothing, inside americas system lack of adequate food. Of criminaljustice. He is now a free man. But what does freedom really mean after everything he has been through . If i asked you right now, looking back, what was the worst thing, the thing that really got closest to breaking you . That would be my mothers death. Albert woodfox, welcome to hardtalk. Here you are, in london as a free man. Other than that, with all i went but given everything through and all that happened to me, you have been through, i never came close to being broken. Is it possible for you to ever feel truly free . Yeah, i mean philosophically, when i lost my mom in 1994 to cancer there was a policy in to go home for the funeral and in African American families mentally and emotionally i was free it is important to say that final goodbye. Long before my physicalfreedom. It usually occurs at and so that was a part the wake or the funeral. Of my survival technique. But because they had singled me it allowed me to survive out as a troublemaker, being in solitary confinement i was denied that. For such a long period of time. I wonder in terms of, literally in terms of muscle memory, whether the way your body is, whether your muscles remember four decades in shackles, so i had to carry that whether you still have that feeling burden for 27 years. Of being in an enclosed space, fortunately before my mother passed away my life changed tremendously. Literally two by three metres or has that left your body . A transformation from criminal to political and social activist had occurred and i was in the process i still have claustrophobic of educating and re educating myself attacks occasionally. And i guess several times i wake up to try and raise my level and have been disorientated, of conscience and so i was able because i am used to getting up to thank her for the things and seeing bars and stuff and you wake up and you see that she values and what she tried a wall and a bedroom. To instill in me and to tell her for a brief moment she was my first hero. I am disorientated. You did an awful lot of reading in prison and became something of a legal expert. You had an awful long time you looked at so many legal books. To reflect on the course you launched so many of your life and i want to take you right back appeals and you did, to near the beginning. Actually, deliver change to the prison regime while you were there. And thanks also to people working outside on your behalf, various appeals against the conviction and, finally, in 2016 you did not get growing up in louisiana as a young the exoneration you were looking for, but you got the offer of a plea deal. Its called an alford plea. A plea does not admit guilt but it admits that the state has enough evidence to bring you to trial. Boy, you made choices and you made you had always said i will walk out of here when i am declared an innocent man and you were not. I still have problems with that. Some very bad choices, there are times when i feel very i guess one could say now. Looking back, why did angry and there are times when i am disappointed that i took the plea deal. You make those choices . Because for my whole life i taught men to fight, to stand for what was right and, i was a young African American kid you know, i tried to do it by not growing up in the south of the United States. Just words but example. Racism was blatant, the opportunities from economic to political to social were almost non existent. And if you are denied access so in the final analysis, you know, to society, if you are denied opportunities, the instinct i accepted a plea deal. And there were many factors involved to survive is probably the strongest but i think the one factor instinct we have. It was almost predestined that is a conversation i i would turn to petty had with my brother. Crime to survive. Id like to read to you a little he said that he was visiting with my passage from your extraordinarily frank and honest book, solitary, where you talk about being a youth growing up. I robbed people, iscared them, i threatened them, i intimidated them. I stole from people daughter and she broke down crying. Who had almost nothing. They were my people, black people. I broke into their homes and took their possessions. I was a chauvinist pig and i never thought about the pain i caused. Yes. He asked what was wrong and she said i made terrible choices. Why dont i have a daddy . There are things that i did that i will never be able ahd he said you have a daddy, and he has accomplished things to forgive myself for. And i will spend the rest of my life in the prison system, you would be very proud of him. And she said no, i dont know what it is to call him daddy and get a response, i dont know what it is for him to hold me in his arms and comfort trying to atone for those things. Me when im troubled. I dont know if ill ever experience that. And that was kind of the Tipping Point of the mental and emotional battle i was waging with myself. But i was not a criminal. I thought i had to do criminal things to survive. And later on in life, because of the influence injoining and you do have that now. You can hug your daughter the black Panther Party i began and your grandchildren to understand how society functioned and your great grandchildren. And understand what individual you can do all that. Racism supported by institutional racism and the systemic application of racism, how that affected my life individually and as a member of the African American community. You talk about the black panthers and i guess it was inside the prison in new york where you first really but you were released and now live came face to face with black men as a free man in a United States who were committed members of the Panther Movement. Of america where there were you already aware of them . Were you already drawn to that ideology, a sort of extremely strong black power ideology or was it is still clear Racial Injustice meeting these people that changed your head . There is a question at the heart of the criminal justice system. One only has to look at the statistics on rates of incarceration, one only has to look at what happens to too many as to whether the influence young black people, particularly young black men in their experiences with the police in different parts of your country. How does that make you feel after of the black Panther Party awaken everything you have been through . Something already in me or whether the influence of the black Panther Party when i was released from prison it raised my level of consciousness took me about three weeks to where i began to understand of being in society to realise that the forces around me, i began to understand nothing had changed. That there were certain policies from the government on down to white so nothing had changed . America that determined pretty much racism was still part of the very the course of my life. Fibre of american society. And the brutality of racism had not changed in its application. The black panthers spoke a lot it had just changed aboutjustice and equality for black people in the United States after centuries of discrimination and slavery, of course, but post slavery the discrimination in how it was applied. Continued. There were also some black panthers who were clearly explicitly committed to violence. Were you part of the movement that believed that violence and later on in life, but i am mindful that you walked out in the year that barack 0bama served his last year as president because of the influence injoining of the United States of america, the first black man to hold that position. Raised my level of consciousness can you really say that nothing had to where i began to understand changed in 44 years . The forces around me, i began to understand that there were certain policies a technicality. From the government on down to White America that determined pretty much i was in prison when the course of my life. The black panthers spoke a lot president 0bama was elected. Aboutjustice and equality for black my reality was that people in the United States nothing would change. After centuries of discrimination this is one man, we have a culture and slavery, of course, but post slavery the discrimination of racism and bigotry and white continued. There were also some black panthers who were clearly explicitly supremacy that goes back committed to violence. Were you part of the movement that to the founding of america. Believed that violence and one man cannotjust change was justified or not . That in eight years. You know, like any organisation, thats the longest period of time the organisation has a goal, a perimeter in which they function. He would be allowed to be president. There will be people in the organisation who will not adhere to that. Will it change . I wonder what you say to your children and your great grandchildren because you speak as a man who all those years ago committed to the black Panther Movement to achieve what you regard we had people like that as justice for black in the party but overall. What about you . People in america. Me, personally, no. My experience with the party was in prison. Herman and i formed the only recognised black Panther Party chapter in a prison. How do you think your grandchildren so a lot of the stuff that happened and great grandchildren should carry out that struggle . With the party in society, we were not exposed to it. If you still see it as a struggle. I think its a social struggle. As a matter of fact it is one of the personal motivations for me. I dont want my Great Grandkids 30 i take your point because, really, your active involvement years from now to be sitting here being interviewed on a stage with the black panthers talking to people about racism was all behind bars which takes and institutional racism and systemic application of racism. Us to angola. As Martin Luther king said, i would rather that society that has that notorious prison in louisiana evolved to the point where they are judged by content where you ended up in 1971 of character not the colour when you walked through the gate of their skin or their ethnicity or physical features into thatjail and you did not leave or hair checks. Let me ask you this. It for more than four decades. A different sort of question 44 years. But the same thing, are you proud of your country today . Before we get to solitary, talk me through your first my country, yes. Impressions of what has long been regarded as the most brutal and perhaps most racist prison in the United States of america. My government, no. That pretty much sums it up. Angola had been designated by various social organisations, and a last thought, including government organisations and ifind this remarkable as being the bloodiest and most about you and the strength violent prison in the of your mind, you say that United States at that time. When you consider everything that almost every day, prisoners had happened to you in your life, and i mean everything, you say i would not either by security or by prisoner change one thing. On prisoner crime someone was stabbed or bludgeoned or murdered so that was the type all i went through made me the man i am today. Of environment that you were forced to survive in. Do you really mean that . That you would not, on reflection, take different decisions that and it was segregated. Would have avoided those 44 years yes. And the staff, from the governor on down but pretty much in solitary confinement . All of the staff were white. Yes. No. No, i would not change a thing. Because for one thing, i didntjust survive solitary confinement, i prospered as a human being. I developed moral principles, values and a code of conduct. I self educated myself. Is a matter of fact, in angola itself you had about 300 personnel in charge of about 5000 or 6000 prisoners. All the things that society had what was unique about angola is that denied me as a human being i was able to provide it was a former slave plantation. Myself in a hostile and isolating environment. It had been a plantation throughout so, no, i wouldnt change anything. The course of the slave period. And you still have families who work there, they go back generation after generation. And you, the black prisoners, as painful as it has been as brutal were put to work in the fields. As it has been the beatings, mostly. The gassings, forced to drink out of the toilet because they turned yes. There were a fewjanitorialjobs. The water off while i was in the dungeon. All the things i went through, most of the plum jobs went they helped build me and shape to the white prisoners. The man i am today and my mum used to always tell me to always be proud lets get to 1972. Of what you look at in the mirror. The murder of a young white prison guard. Did you do it . And so far i think the way i have conducted myself and the way i have no. Transformed myself and the way i have evolved, i am proud there is such an abundance of what looks back at me. Of physical evidence that clearly. You know, says i was not involved in his murder. Physical evidence, they found a bloodied fingerprint in mr millers blood on the door. Albert woodfox, it has been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for being on hardtalk. They never pursued beyond blaming it on me and the other guys who were charged. They did not match any of the people who worked the crime scene. So it raises the obvious question, why were you targeted by the authorities . The prison staff, administrative and security, they were aware that herman and i were members of the black panthers. Herman wallace, your friend, a fellow black panther. Thursday looks like being a day of extraordinary, perhaps even and you were explicit in the prison. Unprecedented, heat across some parts of the uk. Thejuly record looks like it you organised other prisoners. Will be broken but this is the one also in danger, the uk all time record from the heatwave of 2003 you formed an antirape squad to try and control the Sexual Assault because we could beat that and get and abuse inside your very close to 39 celsius somewhere wing of the prison. So you were not hiding your around the london area. Black panther loyalty. No. Not guaranteed but there is a good chance that that is going to be broken. And to be honest with lasted that is the temperature that longer than we thought will make the headlines because there was an internal but there is plenty of hot weather to come elsewhere. Plenty of sunshine from the word go and we know it is going to be a very conflict in the new. Doc secretary, warm and muggy start and those temperatures will just rocket as we go on through the morning. We are keeping more cloud Close Department of corrections, to Northern Ireland with the weather so mr miller was murdered in that environment. Front here and breezy as well. So you are convicted chance of a bit of rain the further of a crime that you insist, always insisted you west you are and it will be breezy simply did not commit. But the fact is you were hauled off elsewhere as well butjust coming from a hot direction, to that special part of the prison that breeze, so there for the solitary will not be a lot of relief. Confinement prisoners. And, yes, the temperature close to london will make headlines and life in a cell of two metres but we will be close to 30 celsius by three metres began. If not above elsewhere in england. And i think everyone watching eastern parts of wales, up towards the central belt in scotland as well with the low 20s into Northern Ireland and a little more cloud around. And listening to this will not be there are some storms around to end the day. Central and eastern parts of england could see them. Able to get their head around they will be hit and miss, what you then experienced for 43 more likely through parts years and ten months. Of Northern England and scotland. So try and capture it for me. The risk of torrential rain, hail and disruption. Still warm night going into friday morning, of course, after the heat of the day so bear in mind that the later stages of thursday into the night there could be some disruptive thundery downpours in places. But then it is all change. This weather front moves through and this is the cold front. Colder stretch but it is the leading well, its kind of hard to find edge of cool air coming words to imagine the horror in on friday. Of being confined to a nine foot long, six foot wide cell. The actual space itself is much there will be some cloud smaller because you have metal beds attached to the wall that take up moving east and the chance of seeing some showers. They may turn heavy on thundery a great part of the cell. Towards parts of Eastern England later in the day. A metal table and chair on the other wall and a toilet bowl sink combination in back so you have a narrow path in which to manoeuvre it will still be warm if not hot up and down the cell. So although the cell is six feet and humid towards east anglia wide and nine feet long, but most other places will see lower the actual space is much smaller. Temperatures in some spots by quite try to stay in your a large margin. Bedroom for 23 hours. Go in your backyard, draw a box, nine feet by six feet and stay 00 13 42,344 4294966103 13 29,430 in there for 23 hours. Going into the weekend, that weather front looks like it will reinvigorate and hang around the eastern side of the uk in particular with the zone of cloud and pulses of rain. Still some uncertainty in the exact positioning of that and could still be