Health secretary matt hancock tells us he will look into this case and others we have uncovered. I will look into the full details of it but from what you had told me, that shouldnt have happened. But also, we have to do, and we must, treat people with humanity and respect. Former conservative pm sirjohn major has told the bbc he will seek a judicial review if the next Prime Minister tries to suspend parliament to force through a no deal brexit. The Prime Ministers advice to the queen, i believe, can be challenged in law, and ifor one would be prepared to go and seekjudicial review to prevent parliament being bypassed. Already, pressure is building on sirjohn to drop his threat. Heres what borisjohnson supporter matt hancock told us on this. Lets pull together and lets all get behind the new Prime Minister, whoever it is. You are also supporting borisjohnson, despite him not ruling out suspending parliament, when you said it would betray the memory of d day veterans . Yes, i. The men who waded onto the beaches and lost their lives. I dont think that is going to happen. But you are supporting a man who wont rule it out. Are you a sell out . And did you see this pic on instagram of love island star arabella chi modelling maternity wear when she wasnt pregnant . From this week, fashion giant asos says it will make clear to customers when foam maternity bumps are being worn. 0ne model tells us that she modeled with a fake bump, taking work away from her pregnant colleague, and regrets it. Almost every day for a year, i was basically putting on a fake pregnancy bump and having to go to work for the same people that id worked for six must previously and basically walk round the office with t shirts that said like preggosaurus on them and just felt completely degraded. Welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. Thank you for your messages about charging overseas visitors when they need nhs care. There are exemptions we will bring you our exclusive film ina we will bring you our exclusive film in a moment. Douglas says, this is oui in a moment. Douglas says, this is our but as a brit living aboard, i still buy medical insurance when i visit home because i am not paying into the system. I dont understand why anyone would travel without fully comp renter insurance. Paul says, a lot people dont consider pppin9 says, a lot people dont consider popping over to paris for the day travelling abroad. A lot of people have pre existing medical conditions, meaning travel insurance is unaffordable. But the European Health insurance card means they can travel. Ian says, this is beyond appalling and should be completely unacceptable. Appalling and should be completely u na cce pta ble. Steve says, appalling and should be completely unacceptable. Steve says, i cant think of anywhere ive ever travelled in the world where my health care, if required, would be provided free of charge. Everywhere else in the world seems to have no qualms whatsoever collecting money for treatment given so why another is it causing such concern here . And kim says, whether they took insurance or not, whether the nhs should pay for treatment of people from other countries, the body of that precious baby was withheld from that precious baby was withheld from that couple, used as a bargaining tool over a bill. Just so morally wrong. More on that to come. Time for the news now and joanna. The former Prime Minister, sirjohn major, has said he would be willing to go to court to prevent Boris Johnson from suspending parliament to ensure britain can leave the eu without a deal. Mrjohnson refused to rule out proroguing parliament in last nights tv debate withjeremy hunt. Sirjohn, whos backing mr hunt, said it would be utterly a nd totally u na cce pta ble to deny mps their say. The uks preparations for Climate Change are being run like dads army with a ramshackle approach to the crisis, according to a scathing new report. The governments chief Climate Advisors say they are shocked ministers are failing to cut emissions fast enough, and adapting to rising temperatures. The government insists it is taking Climate Change very seriously. Frontline Police Officers say the service in england and wales has been cut back so much it isnt robust enough to respond to changing patterns of crime. 0fficers said they were under constant pressure, with inexperienced staff often carrying out roles they werent prepared for, and rest days frequently cancelled. The Home Office Said inspections would be carried out to ensure forces were looking after the welfare of officers and other staff. The United States is seeking to set up an International Military coalition to safeguard strategic waters off iran and yemen. The us has blamed iran for attacks on oil tankers in may and june. This morning the royal navy has confirmed that it has a warship in the gulf to protect british vessels against possible retaliation for the seizure of an iranian tanker thought to be destined for syria. Schools in wales are being told their uniforms must be affordable, accessible and gender neutral, under new statutory guidelines. The changes come into force from september. A consultation was launched last autumn, after some parents claimed uniform policies were too strict and the clothes too expensive. Parents will be able to make formal complaints to schools that do not take the guidelines into account. Users of amazons digital assistant, alexa, will now be able to get medical advice directly from the nhs. From this week, the Voice Assisted Technology will automatically search the nhs choices website when uk users ask Health Related questions. Previously it provided information from a range of sources. The department of health in england says it could help to reduce demand on the nhs. There are concerns seagulls across australia are carrying superbugs that are resistant to antibiotics. Scientists found a fifth of all silver gulls in australia are carrying bacteria such as e coli, picked up while scavenging on household waste. Experts fear the toxins could be passed back to humans. The veteran american character actor, rip torn, has died at the age of 88. He appeared in films such as sweet bird of youth, the cincinnati kid, men in black and cross creek for which he was nominated for an academy award. 0n television, rip torn won an emmy for the Larry Sanders show. That is a summary. Back to you, victoria. The Royal College of midwives the labour party have exclusively told this programme that the so called racist policy of charging certain foreign vistors for nhs care in england must be suspended. And the Health Secretary has told us he will review some of the cases we have uncovered, to see whether the policy is being used correctly. Shadow home secretary diane abbott is also calling for an independent inquiry to look at the policy of up front charging of migrant patients, and whether its causing wider harm. New laws introduced in 2015 made it a legal requirement that patients needed indefinite leave to remain in england forFree Health Care. From 2017, hospital staff by law must check patients immigration status beforehand. 0ur reporter catrin nye has this exclusive report. This one is from the overseas visitors team, informing us that mum may not be entitled to free treatment on the nhs. This is Thain Kleinhentz and his mum rene. Shes been sleeping on his sofa for over a year now. Thain has lived in the uk for 30 years, and last may, rene flew from south africa for his wedding on a visitor visa. But while here, she started having serious breathing problems. Mum was very ill and the gp then saw mum and did a test on her for her oxygen levels, and she was so ill that he immediately called an ambulance and they rushed her to kings a e. They then rushed mum up to a ward. There was a person from the overseas Visitors Department and theyd gone to her bed to interview her. We were very anxious. Thain then made what may seem like a strange decision to discharge his mum. They strongly advised that we didnt take mum out of hospital strongly advised. Definitely do not leave the hospital, mum is too ill and she needs an oxygen tank. At that point, did you know what was wrong with your mum . No. No . Rene isnt eligible for free nhs care and they were worried about being billed. They wanted to do further tests, and i refused, i said, no. Because i wouldve had to pay it, and i didnt have the money. In 2015, a new immigration act came into force. This made having indefinite leave to remain in the uk a requirement for getting free nhs care in england. It placed a statutory duty on nhs trusts to identify and charge people not eligible. Another change came in october 2017. Nhs Service Providers now have a duty to check the eligibility of patients and charge upfront before treatment. There are significant exemptions, like gp services and Emergency Care, which remain free for everyone. But rene didnt have Health Insurance for her trip and found herself outside of those exemptions pretty quickly. She had a ct scan of her chest, which was suspicious for cancer, but the patient has no recourse to public funds and has no ability pay, and so self discharged against medical advice and did not undergo confirmatory investigations. I think that her condition is likely to be terminal and that she has very limited life expectancy. A gp has told rene shes too sick to fly home. Shes been given enough tests in Emergency Care to establish she has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. But rene still needs more investigation. Do you know how much that will be . No. We dont have any money. I dont want mum to die on the couch. I think weve just come to accept that this is how it is. Mum and i both know this isnt going to go on forever. Its just very stressful. The doctor did say that he didnt think i would make it past december. So have you just accepted that youre going to die here and youre not going to be able to find out any more about whats wrong with you . No. Yeah, youre right. But thats exactly whats going to happen. Joe rylands is a trainee gp. Hes been working in hospitals in the north of england as a Junior Doctor for six years and has seen the expansion of charging first hand. I think theres been a bit of disbelief amongst myself and other colleagues about how far its gone. Its a story that i think highlights the cultural change that this policy is having on the nhs. There was a couple from western europe who were here on holiday. They were heavily pregnant, and as she began to bleed. So she came into the Maternity Hospital that i was working in. The woman was eight months pregnant. Obstetricians performed a c section, but sadly the baby died. Whilst the couple were coming to terms with the loss of their baby, they were visited by the overseas visitor manager, and for some reason they didnt have their European Health card with them, or they didnt have some proof of exemption, and they were presented with a bill for £10,000, and they werent able to pay it. And what makes the story really tragic is that when youve lost a baby, even if its a miscarriage, they can make up a bassinet with the body so that parents can take it home and have a funeral. And this couple were not allowed to have the body because they hadnt paid the bill. This story is shocking, but the government guidance on charging states that those who do not have a valid European Health insurance card must be charged for services. Maternity is exempt from upfront charging, but its still chargeable after. Joe says the increased presence of overseas medical officers who issue the bills since 2017 is partly responsible for this happening. I refuse to believe that five years ago this was capable of happening. And how did that make you feel . Really angry. Yeah. I guess itsjust, its not what any of us want to do in the nhs. And i dont think its what anyone in this country would want. But these cases are becoming more and more common. Its supposed to be clinicians that are making that call, but increasingly, its often not, so its often an overseas visitor manager will come on the ward, or just leave a note. Andrew, whose name weve changed, worked on the overseas medical team at a large London Hospital for around a year and a half. If thats what you could call, it was on the job, so it was just learning from a colleague. Nothing actually formally. Youre not medically trained, so you dont know what the impact of these conversations youre having is. And sometimes it felt inappropriate, for instance, going into icu with patients who were just recently stabilised and. And did that make it hard for you . Definitely, because i think theres a lot of grey areas within how the guidelines are interpreted, how theyre applied, and i certainly didnt feel they were applied consistently. People who are able to kick up a fuss would often just make exceptions with the charging just because they cant be bothered to deal with the complaints. How were you picking people to charge . I think, potentially, at the moment the way its being done is discriminatory because we dont have the resources to apply it in a fair, consistent and non discriminatory way. So it could be that someone has potentially a name that sounds like its less likely to be someone who would be resident in the uk. A foreign sounding name . Yeah. Is that the method you used . Yes. The list would be extremely long. So if you had ajohn smith versus a mohammed khan, you dont have the time to write to both youd go for the mohammed khan. Last december, Faisal Haneef found himself in hospital with his brother, nasar. Nasar had suffered heart failure, but was ineligible for a transplant because he wasnt in the uk legally. Is it strange for you, watching this now . To be honest with you, im watching them after a long, long time. First time in a long time . Yeah, yeah. He tried and failed to legalise his status, and just before he got ill, had applied to the home office for voluntary return to pakistan. But nasar was given weeks to live. He was receiving end of life care when he was handed a bill for £16,000 in his hospital bed. I mean, they could have posted this to my address or something, you know, instead ofjust handing him in his hand. Birmingham gp liz also volunteers at Charity Doctors of the world and was contacted to help the family. The most difficult conversation i had to have with you was when i realised that the due date on the bill was longer than nasars life expectancy, and that was his personal bill that would essentially die with him. And that was just a. A vile conversation to have to have with somebody. It was like there was a complete disconnect between what the doctors and the Clinical Team were doing and what the finance department were doing. Family emphasised the medical teams that treated nasar were very caring. The doctors at the hospital kept him. Essentially kept him alive for long enough for his family to come. And eventually he died in february. Nasars family were posted another bill for £32,000, anotherfor £23,000. Gp liz argues the hospital should never have been sending them and causing deep stress to the family when nasar wouldnt be alive to pay them. There is growing opposition to the nhs charging regime. Two weeks ago, the British Medical Association called for the policy to be abandoned completely. And now the Royal College of midwives has told us that it must be suspended until its clear that it is not harming women. The shadow home secretary has also called for a suspension of the policy. Upfront charging is immoral and unconscionable. I think, at the very least, the current policy needs to be suspended. Lets find out what the size of the problem is, but also we also need to look at how people may be suffering. It is nearly always cheaper to deal with a condition at the early stages than until it becomes full blown. The governments done an as yet unpublished review into this policy and it says it found no significant evidence of harm. I would say it is not credible that no serious harm is being caused. Were talking about peoples health. But the government says its done a review . Well, publish the review and then we can alljudge for ourselves. A spokesperson for the department of health and social care told us i work in the nhs and have worked for the last 20 years, so i am part of the front line staff that helps people every single day, so its very overwhelming for me to be on the other side where my mother needs care from the nhs and its not being offered to her. What is it stopping you getting the treatment . What is the core thing . Is it money . Is it fear of being deported potentially . Both of those things. Yeah. Do you understand why this charging regime was brought in . People have taken advantage of the nhs free care in the past. We do understand that people have come over and used the nhs for free care, but were not those people. And this doesnt seem. The nhs that i work for, that i know. And its my mum. Sorry. She should be helped, really, she should be getting some help. Well be hearing from the Health Secretary matt hancock about this later in the programme, who has asked for details of all the cases that we have uncovered here so he can review them, but for now im joined by james skinner, a former a e nurse and now lead campaigner at medact, which is against the charging of overseas patients in any circumstances. Kate green is a labour mp who is the chair on the all Party Parliamentary group on migration. She is campaigning for maternal care to be free, regardless. Samuel armstrong is from the Henry Jackson society which is a reseatch body specialising in foreign and security policy, and he is supportive of charging migrants upfront. James skinner, are you seriously suggesting the nhs should be free for everybody from wherever they are in the world . I think what we need to do really is not based nhs policy on these kind of hypothetical ideas that people are coming here to exploit the health service. We based nhs policy on evidence and really, theres no hard evidence that so called Health Tourism is a significant burden on the nhs. The governments own estimate is that at most, it costs 0. 3 of the budget. Really, what we dont see or get to talk about is the way that policy, and the charging policy more broadly, impacts people that live here right now, people who are long term residents, like nasar, who have not been able to regularise their immigration status, like the Wind Generation stop what he was here illegally. Yes to stop what you describe them as a long term resident, he tried twice to get leave to remain and was denied that. Its true and so the nhs is a system based on residency and he was resident in the uk. Illegally. It is only a recent change which has meant that immigration status is linked to ability to Access Health care. 0k. For me, i dont think that is good, he lives in the uk and he should be able to use the Public Services that we supply for people. This is what this e mail says, during my a0 yea rs this e mail says, during my a0 years as a midwife, i have witnessed the abuse of the nhs services. Females entering the uk on student visas to have their babies free of charge. Women arriving six months pregnant in order to get free Maternity Care. Gps referring overseas patients for operations with no questions asked. Yet at the same time, i had patients who were refused life saving cancer drugs because of the high cost of the drugs after paying into the system all of their working lives. If the nhs is in crisis, how can we continue to supply the rest of the world with Free Health Care . It is afair world with Free Health Care . It is a fair question, isnt it . Yes, it is andi a fair question, isnt it . Yes, it is and i cant speak to this persons individual experience but i can look at the information that is available to us. As i said before, the government was my own estimate at the cost is at most 0. 3 of the budget. The governments own estimate for the what we are seeing isa estimate for the what we are seeing is a fundamental culture change in the nhs, i think, that leads to situations like the one the doctor was talking about in your segment, where people are being denied access to their dead baby to take it home on the basis that they cant pay. Really, that is completely outside the regulations stop what it does is it changes the way Health Workers engage with patients, considering entitlement first. Samuel armstrong, how do you react to the couple who we re how do you react to the couple who were not allowed to take the body of their dead baby home . You know what . I find it really upsetting to have to come out here and defend cases like that where clearly, things have gone wrong. But you are going to defend that yellow im not going to defend that yellow im not going to defend that yellow im not going to defend that but for every case like that, there is a case where a young boy who has grown up in this country is denied red drugs which are incurred expensive for the nhs to provide. Just because Health Care Treatment is free to us, does not mean it is free to provide. There is a limited pool and if the choice is between paying for health care for global jetsetters, for example, who are flying around the world all the time doing business and need treatment in the uk, or providing life saving, critical treatment for people with rare and expensive diseases to treat in the uk, to my mind, it is fair that the National Health Service Provides health for british nationals. Guy says, do the compassionate thing and give them the dead body. I couldnt agree more in that case, there is no reason why the nhs has deprived that couple of their baby. But the nhs needs to draw a line activity is delivering careful. They didnt give them the body because they could not pay the £10,000 bill. And i think in that case, it was completely wrong but for every case like that, there will be hundreds of other cases in which the nhs was previously open to abuse. 0k, kate, what is wrong with nhs trusts who are required by law to charge people in second circumstances or treatment if they are found to be ineligible for free care . I think what we know and what james has been saying and what we have seen from the clip at the beginning of the programme is that it can capture people in the system who shouldnt be captured. A universal system is much simpler to administerand universal system is much simpler to administer and you dont make mistakes. It means that Vulnerable People sometimes dont go for treatment for which they would be eligible because they are worried that they will be charged, or that their data will be shared with other authorities. That can be very damaging, notjust authorities. That can be very damaging, not just for their authorities. That can be very damaging, notjust for their health or in the case of a pregnant woman, the health of her unborn baby but can have Public Health implications as well or can create Greater Health problems down the line, which means more cost ultimately for the nhs if it ends up dealing with an emergency. If it does, and it could cause greater problems for those who are potentially denied access to treatment or drugs, who are resident, who has been paying into the system through their working lives, because money is being spent on overseas visitors, as our midwife just explained. It is important to recognise that some people who are not eligible or not accessing care are paying into the system or their family member. Indeed, we saw that a few moments ago with an nhs worker whose mother is not able to access the system. But i think it is also important to say that we should not be connecting the decisions, the clinical decisions that need to be made about the care of Vulnerable People and what drugs are Cost Effective for british patients facing very serious illness. We need to have a system that works out how we meet need right across the piece andl we meet need right across the piece and i dont think connecting the two is the way the nhs thinks about it or should think about it. The bma says the current policy is racist, are they right . I dont think so. The union is welcome to form its own position. Sorry to instruct but look at the example of andrew who we spoke to in the film, who works on the overseas medical team until last summer, he was not a medic and literally would look down the list of names and see a john smith and a Muhammad Khan and he would go to the Muhammad Khan and he would go to the muhammad cant see if he had any money. And bluntly, im glad hes out of the nhs, there is no for people like him who are launching that kind of approach. So that was racist . I think if you are looking down the list and picking out foreign names in order to go round and hector, you are a racist. He had no training, he was given no training and had no other way of doing it, he said. Improves the training, dont scrap the law. The fundamental need for this law cannot be. The fact the police sometimes make mistakes in policing decisions does not mean we can abolish law. The fact these officers make mistakes does not mean we should abolish this law either. You said this is 0. 3 of the overall nhs budget, james, that is £300 million, an awful lot of money. Thats correct, but what we dont talk about is the additional cost of deterring and delaying people seeking care. When people get sick, when people dont seek care, they dont stop getting sick, they get sick later and they are more likely to access Emergency Care, as kate said, which comes at a higher cost to them and broader society. What we need to focus on with this policy is that it need to focus on with this policy is thatitis need to focus on with this policy is that it is not, for the most part, overseas visitors that are being caught by the charging regulations. It is people who are long term residents in the uk, people that are seeking asylum and awaiting appeal, people like the windrush generation, and the impact both on their own finances but their ability to contribute more broadly to society as fast as a result of being denied ca re as fast as a result of being denied care and being saddled with debt they cant pay. Thank you for joining us. We will hear from Health Secretary matt hancock on this a bit later. Former Prime Minister sirjohn major has told the bbc he would seek a judicial review if the next pm tried to suspend parliament to force through a no deal brexit. It comes after last nights itv Leadership Debate between the two tory leadership candidates, in which borisjohnson refused to say he would resign if britain hasnt left the eu by october 31st. Norman smith is at westminster. Right, the highlights from last night. It all turned out to be much more of a grudge match than i think we we re more of a grudge match than i think we were expecting. In part, jeremy hunt had to try to rough up Boris Johnson a bit and he did. We had some pretty aggressive lines from mr hunt, suggesting that Boris Johnsons lack of grasp of detail was fine if you were a newspaper columnist but not so if you wanted to be Prime Minister. It caused borisjohnson some discomfort over his plans to cut taxes for the better off. Boris johnson his plans to cut taxes for the better off. Borisjohnson was under pressure a bit over his decision not to row in behind the ambassador in washington. He did not really give clear a nswers washington. He did not really give clear a nswe rs on washington. He did not really give clear answers on issues like hs2 or heathrow or abortion rights in Northern Ireland. Will any of it has made any difference . Perhaps not. My feeling is probably most tory voters have already decided how they are going to go and last night well just have confirmed them in their views. But it was a bit of a needle match. Have a listen to the final exchange of the debate when they we re exchange of the debate when they were asked if there was anything they admired about their opponent. Ive worked very well with jeremy over the years, and i think i. Laughter. I greatly admire his ability to change his mind. Laughter. And campaign for brexit now. I think thats a very important attribute. Applause. I really admire boriss ability to answer the question. Laughter. He has this great ability, you ask a question, he puts a smile on your face and you forget what the question was. Its a brilliant quality for a politician, maybe not a Prime Minister though. Applause. You get a sense of the needle between the two men but that is as nothing compared to the move by sir john major, the former Prime Minister, who has said that if Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister and he tries to get round parliament to ta ke he tries to get round parliament to take us out of europe without a deal by shutting parliament down, then he, john major, we take Boris Johnson to court. Think about that. You would have a former conservative Prime Minister taking a current conservative Prime Minister to court. Its an extraordinary thought and gives you a sense of the level of division and frankly animosity within the two sides of the tory party. In order to close down parliament, the Prime Minister would have to go to her majesty the queen and ask for her permission to prorogue. If her first minister asks for that permission, it is almost inconceivable that the queen will do anything other than grant it. Shes advised by her first minister. And she is then in the midst of a constitutional controversy that no serious politician should put the queen in the middle of. Now, i think this is completely and utterly against parliamentary tradition and against the way in which our government should work. If that were to happen, i think there would be a queue of people who would seekjudicial review. The queens decision cannot be challenged in law. But the Prime Ministers advice to the queen can, i believe, be challenged in law. I for one would be prepared to go and seekjudicial review to prevent parliament being bypassed. Why this matters, apart from the insight into the level of acrimony and animosity between the two wings of the tory party, is it is yet another move to try and thwart no deal. We know there are various tory mps like Dominic Grieve who have been trying to come up with parliamentary wheezes to ensure borisjohnson parliamentary wheezes to ensure Boris Johnson cant take parliamentary wheezes to ensure borisjohnson cant take us out of europe without getting the say so of parliament. Now, those parliamentary manoeuvres havent really worked. Now we have sirjohn major saying, 0k, well go through the courts. Major development in the whole of brexit argument. Thank you. Ive been speaking to the Health Secretary matt hancock who was a leadership candidate himself at the start of the race and is now backing borisjohnson, about a whole range of things. His new announcement of a partnership with amazon to allow alexas to give health advice, and also about our exclusive story on nhs charging overseas migrants. But first i asked him about sirjohn majors comments. I lovejohn i love john major very i lovejohn major very much and i think he was an excellent Prime Minister. I think we need to deliver brexit by the 31st of october. I think ina brexit by the 31st of october. I think in a way, this rancour in the debate needs to be ended. So, one of the reasons that having pulled out from running myself im backing boris is because i think hes got the best chance of delivering by the 3ist the best chance of delivering by the 31st of october. How do you respond . Its extraordinary, a former conservative Prime Minister saying he would do this. How do you react . I dont think its going to come to that. But he is saying he is prepared to do that. |j that. But he is saying he is prepared to do that. I know. I really think that as a country, we need to deliver on the result of the referendum. And you are also supporting Boris Johnson despite referendum. And you are also supporting borisjohnson despite him not ruling out suspending parliament when you said it would betray the memory of d day veterans. Those men who waded onto the beaches and lost their lives. I dont think thats going to happen. But youre supporting a man who wont rule it out, are you a sell out . When i ran for the leadership, i made my case clear. I got the support of 20 mps andi clear. I got the support of 20 mps and i was honoured to get that support. It wasnt enough to proceed and then you have to choose between the candidates who are left. What about your principles . You are now prepared to betray the memory of those veterans . My principles are that i have had to choose between borisjohnson that i have had to choose between Boris Johnson and jeremy hunt that i have had to choose between borisjohnson and jeremy hunt to be the next Prime Minister. I think of those two, it is quite clear that borisjohnson has the best chance of us borisjohnson has the best chance of us leaving the eu with a deal and then moving the country forward and getting things to happen. I stood because i wanted to put forward exactly what i thought, and i did, when you are no longer a candidate you have to choose between the candidates available and i think that boris has the best chance to deliver brexit on the 31st of 0ctober. He is determined to do it and ina 0ctober. He is determined to do it and in a way all of this angst weve seen renewed today with sirjohn majors intervention just demonstrates how important it is for politicians to be able to move forward and get on tv things that really improve peoples lives, like the nhs, which i spent my time worrying about and trying to improve. Lets talk about the nhs. Youre announcing this partnership between the nhs and alexa. How will that help elephants . How will that help patients . That help elephants . How will that help patients . Millions of people already ask for medical advice from alexa. I want people to get the best advice possible from the nhs. In the past, the device has gone from any source of medical information on the internet and we all know whats out there on the internet, far better that it goes to the best possible medical advice, which is obviously from the nhs. Presumably it has to be simple questions, like, how do i treat a migraine or Something Like that . Obviously, there is a point at which youve got to go to your gp. Of course, people should be able to go and see their gp and must always be able to go and see their gp face to face. But sometimes people dont want to, its more convenient or maybe they are unable to, maybe its hard to get to the surgery. I have my gp consultations by smartphone, its much betterfor me and for my gp. Its not for everybody but its important to use technology to make things better if we can stop right there is a worry from the head of the Royal College of gps. She says she would want to see independent Research Done to make sure the advice being given by alexa is a safe and to make sure its not actually preventing people seeking proper medical advice. Are you going to commit to that independent research . Im happy to keep watching how it goes. That is a yes . Yes. Lets do that. There is the potential for this to yes . Yes. Lets do that. There is the potentialfor this to reduce some of the pressure on mps people have confidence in the information they are getting back from alexa and thatis they are getting back from alexa and that is a good thing reduce the pressure on gps. As long as we are clear that this isnt for everybody, i think it can help to reduce some of the pressures on gps which are significant at the moment. Is that there are strict privacy rules. People might be worried their data might be used by amazon for whatever purpose, commercial reasons. When you say there are strict privacy rules, what do you mean . Amazon have in place rules to make sure the data isnt used to drive their algorithms in terms of what other offers you get, and in terms of the commercialisation of that information. In the nhs, there are clear privacy rules because your medical information is very sensitive. What will they do with that data . They use it to call up the information you are asking. White packs it . Yes, and to improve that algorithm so they can be Getting Better information to you from the nhs now. Is it costing the taxpayer anything . Know, the information is already available, i hope it will reduce costs actually because some people can ask alexa instead of having to go and see their gp. I want to ask you about our exclusive story, labour and the Royal College of midwives are saying the policy of charging overseas visitors when they go for nhs treatment should be suspended in orderfor there to be treatment should be suspended in order for there to be a review to see what harm it might be doing those patients. Would you agree . |j those patients. Would you agree . think its incredibly important that people make a fair contribution to the cost of running the health service. For everybody who is resident in this country, for the vast majority of people watching, we pay for the nhs through taxes. When people come from overseas, it is perfectly reasonable and i would say its right that they make a contribution towards the cost of the nhs. Now, weve always got to make sure that the way those contributions are collected is fair and is reasonable and is done in a sensible way. For instance, if people need Emergency Care they a lwa ys people need Emergency Care they always get that for free. In fact, if they want to see a gp, that is free and for groups of people like asylu m free and for groups of people like asylum seekers, then their costs are free in all circumstances for all procedures. But if someone is transferred from a e to award they start to be charged. It sounds like you are not interested in doing a review and suspending it for a period of time to see what harm it might be doing. I dont want to suspend the rules because it is fair that people make a contribution. At the same time, i want to make sure that the rules we have are being implemented properly across the nhs, but i think a suspension would be wrong. After all, this policy raises £1. 3 billion that is put straight into Front Line Services and there are people who havent paid uk taxes coming from abroad, then, yes, we should treat them but also that needs to be paid for. I think this is an extremely reasonable policy, its got strong public support and its got strong public support and it needs to be implemented properly. If there are individual cases, some of which have been highlighted on your programme, then im very happy to look at the implementation of the policy in these cases. I will give you one example. It is about a doctor who told us about a couple from western europe. They came here, visiting, the mother to baby was eight months pregnant, she started bleeding and was taken to hospital. She had to have an emergency ca esa rea n, she had to have an emergency caesarean, sadly her baby died, they we re caesarean, sadly her baby died, they were given a bill of £10,000 and couldnt afford to pay it. Therefore they werent allowed to take the dead body of their baby away with them because they couldnt afford them because they couldnt afford the bill. That sort of outcome is totally u na cce pta ble. The bill. That sort of outcome is totally unacceptable. The rules are really clear around pregnancy that if people are not intending to give birth here, then their maternity ca re birth here, then their Maternity Care should be free. Thats quite right. In the same way that if somebody turned up to a e with a problem, then they are of course treated free. So that couples shouldnt have been charged £10,000 . I will look into the full details of it. Also, we have to treat people with humanity and respect and the idea that the body isnt released because of this is completely wrong. Im very happy to look into the individual cases but you raise, but we also have to keep the overall policy in place because it is fair and right on the money that it raises goes directly into front line care. Finally, there was an internal review of this policy done in 2017. We publish that . We will publish the conclusions of the review. What about the whole report . The overall conclusions of it have been published. The individual details within it, many of them are confidential and have patient confidentiality around it. You could redact the names. It comes back to the privacy point we were talking about earlier. Im not going to break peoples individual privacy. What we do is look carefully into the cases brought to us. Thank you. Thank you for your messages. 0ne says, i recently represented an elderly woman at heathrow with a multiple entry visa who was rushing to her critically ill daughter in laws hospital bedside after a traffic accident. She was denied entry because of an alleged nhs bill even though this was being negotiated through lawyers. It took a High Court Injunction to get her out of detention and with her family. The home office are refusing to restore her visa. Another view it says, i work for the nhs and i can tell you its never been so on its knees. If we were giving Free Health Care to noncitizens it might be you or your loved 11 day refused treatment because there is no money or resources left. 0n the subject of john major threatening to take the next conservative Prime Minister to court, if that Prime Minister goes through with suspending parliament to push through no deal parliament, jane says, why doesntjohn major and the other has beans keep their noses out of brexit. And another viewer says, thank goodness we still have a few decent politicians like john major left. Keep those coming last month, fans of love island were shocked when photos of one of the contestants, arabella chi, appeared on social media because she was modelling maternity wear on the website asos. Now the fashion giant has updated its guidelines to make it clear to customers when prosthetic maternity bumps are being worn. Campaigners says using models who arent pregnant can cause expectant mothers to feel stressed because theyre faced with unrealistic expectations. But the founder of the uks leading maternity fashion brand has told this programme that finding pregnant models can be difficult, and modelling agencies need to be better at promoting them. Ive been speaking to cecile reinaud, the founder of seraphine, whose fans include the duchess of cambridge and thandie newton. And to louise boyce. And leanne maskell. She modelled maternity wear when she wasnt pregnant. And to louise boyce. Shes a model who is eight months pregnant. I asked her whether its wrong to use non pregnant women to model maternity wear. I wouldnt necessarily say its100 wrong. What im trying to get across to the brands is to say, if you are using a prosthetic bump, let the consumer know so we have a better idea of what we are buying. There have been so many occasions where we do buy clothes and they dont fit properly or. Ive had messages from pregnant women saying that they have compared themselves to these models. Because they dont look like these models, because they look absolutely perfect, they have considered dieting or, you know, got quite depressed from shopping online for maternity. I mean, it would be better if these brands just use pregnant models, because there are so many out there that are willing and capable and healthy to do it. Do you know what they say . They say they dont want pregnant women standing on their feet all day, modelling. Yeah, but i love the comment because. Ive worked in studios where theres heavily pregnant make up artists and stylists and photographers. No one seems to worry about their welfare. It only seems to be the models. And you know, we are freelancers, we have the choice to work or not. It is up to us if we want to do the job. If we are feeling up to it, then lets crack on. I mean, im in my second trimester and even now, im feeling great and i would love to have worked and i generally havent at all. No one has given you any work since, what, becoming pregnant . This is my third pregnancy and the third time i have had to really, you know, re evaluate myjob. I said to my husband, if we try for another baby, do you realise that i wont work . You know, this is the third time it has happened. Im not alone. There are so many mothers out there. Since i started the whole push it out campaign, they have reached out and said, my god, me, too. This is, you know, what is going on . Let me bring in cecile. Is it wrong to use non pregnant models to model maternity wear . I think it is not wrong but i do believe it is much preferable to use real pregnant women. It is a better representation of the reality of the body and the changing curves of the women. So do you never use non pregnant models to model . No, we do sometimes use non pregnant, because it is quite hard to find pregnant women at the right stage. Obviously, for us, we need a woman who is around her sixth month of pregnancy so her bump is well developed. There are sometimes some shortages. I think there is an issue from the modelling agencies. We certainly, as clients, feel that sometimes they are hiding the fact that their clients are pregnant, because they dont want it to be known, because then they feel that for non pregnancy in the fashion world, this will be discriminated. It is not always easy for us to source, you know, the models we need. Leanne, you have modelled maternity wear when you were not pregnant so you have used a foam bump, effectively . Yes. What is that like . How did it make you feel . Incredibly degraded and humiliated. I used to model for all of the big e commerce brands, not pregnant. Then one of their models who did all of their pregnancy modelling, she actually became pregnant, so they stopped using her. For maternity wear . Yes. So she stopped working and i was brought in to replace her. Why . I dont understand that. Neither do i, but i think that its essentially because they just want to sell a certain image and it is all about commerce and products and making people essentially feel quite bad about themselves. Why did you do it, if youve just explained that and you felt degraded . I had no choice. What, you mean in terms of money . Yeah, i had the choice of, you can do this and work, or you have fewer jobs. So essentially, my agency really pressured me into doing it. I did it once and i said, what if this pigeonholes me . And they said, no, no, it will be fine, and then all of my other brands followed suit. Almost every day for a year, i was basically putting on a fake pregnancy bump, having to go to work with the same people that i had worked with for six months previously and basically walk around an office with t shirts that said, like, preggosaurus on them. I just felt completely degraded on a personal level because ive had a lot of pressure to lose weight, as a size eight, throughout my career. I felt that it was all related to my weight, so i basically developed anorexia and stopped eating and thought, oh, illjust lose weight and theyll put me back, but they didnt. I became their bestselling maternity model. Eventually, i went to australia because i was just so incredibly depressed, which is where i started writing this book to help models, essentially, understand their career and understand these choices. Essentially, you might not realise that people are treating you as though you are expendable. I felt so terrible on a broader scale because my sister was pregnant and she was so angry and upset that she was buying her clothes from models that were not pregnant. Obviously, we are a size eight. I was 22. Your ankles dont swell up. I also had to stuff my bra with plastic. So a completely unrealistic image that youre portraying, effectively . Yeah, completely misleading advertising. I think that brands should definitely, definitely, as a first step, notify the consumer that these models are not pregnant. Which is what asos are now doing, which presumably, louise, you think is absolutely the right thing, so they make it clear under the image that the model was using a foam bump and was not pregnant. Yeah, it is something that i have been campaigning for for the last few months. I was thrilled when i got the e mail from ourselves last week saying, yeah, actually, we agree with you and we are going to put it in place. It is on their website now. Theres a bit on the asos plc site that mentions the bumps. And also, under the clothes that you are buying, it says that the model is wearing a prosthetic bump, and it measures, i think, 52 centimetres or something. So the consumer now has a better idea of what they are buying. Hurrah let me read what they say. It is important for us to provide our customers with the best possible experience, which includes consistency of fit when it comes to our garments. For this reason, our models wear a prosthetic bump when shooting maternity products. By using a prosthetic bump, we can standardise the fit and cut of our items and ensure customers receive what they are expecting when they shop. Back to one of the big stories of the day the threat by a former conservative pm, sirjohn major, to take the next conservative pm to court if he Suspends Parliament to force through a no deal brexit against the wishes of mps. The Health Secretary matt hancock told us he wanted everyone to unite behind the new pm including john major. Well, i dont think its going to come to that. But if it does. He is saying he is prepared to do that. know. I really, really think that as a country we need to deliver on the result of the referendum so we can all move forward. Are you shocked, surprised, disappointed . All move forward. Are you shocked, surprised, disappointed . Do you feel betrayed . I think its important for us all to pull together to try to get this done. So he shouldnt be making this correct . One of the reasons i supported boris is because support from across the conservative party. The desperate need, asjohn major knows, the need to come together to try to find ways and resolve our differences. I think the consequences of a Jeremy Corbyn government supported by the snp would be disastrous. So you are saying to him, dont do lets pull together and get behind the new Prime Minister, whoever it is. Lets get behind him, pull together, lets deliver on the result of the referendum and move forward. So thats implicit, get behind the new Prime Minister . Lets come together. He also said there is no conceivable justification for bypassing parliament, not even as a negotiating tactic. I understand why boris doesnt want to rule this out. I dont think that its going to happen and i think that we are going to get a deal and boris is best placed to do that. Ive been clear on my thoughts on it as well. The crucial thing is we have to get that deal and deliver, in order to leave the eu say that the country can come together. That is the overriding imperative in british politics and everything under that is tactics. What matters is we deliver on the result of the referendum in the most positive way possible, which means leaving with a deal on the 31st of 0ctober. Leaving with a deal on the 31st of october. He said of october the 31st that it was an artificial deadline and had more to do with the election to leader of the tory party than the interests of the country. Thats just not true. Implying Boris Johnson is putting his own ambition first. Thats not true. The 31st of 0ctober first. Thats not true. The 31st of october is the legal deadline in the same way that the 29th of march was the legal deadline. But we dont have to leave by then. In order not to, theres a whole series of things that would have to happen including asking the permission of every other european state. You could be on the cusp of a dealjust before hand. In any negotiation, when you have a deadline its the deadline that drives the deal. I wish we had left on the 29th of march. Then we would have delivered on the original promise, and weve seen whats happened in politics with the rise of populist parties on the rise of the brexit party since the failure to deliver on brexit by the 29th of march. So its more about the future of the conservative party. Its about the National Interest which is served by having centrist parties in government, progressive, optimistic, forward looking parties governing forward looking parties governing for the whole country. We need to deliver on the results because we area deliver on the results because we are a democracy and we followed the results of votes. Then we need to move forward in a way that can bring the party and the country together. Ina way, the party and the country together. In a way, what sirjohn has said todayis in a way, what sirjohn has said today is just another example of how desperately we need this country to start to come together again. Matt hancock the Health Secretary. Thank you for your many messages about our exclusive story, the fact the royal couege exclusive story, the fact the Royal College of midwives and labour are calling for a suspension to the policy of charging overseas visitors for nhs health care. Many fees. 0ne says, the nhs cannot afford to care for everyone, it isnt racist. 0ne appalling story doesntjustify changing rules that are applied to us abroad. Waiting lists are long and care is already stretched to breaking point. Thank you for your company today. Bbc newsroom live is coming up next. Quite a bit of clout this morning but for england and wales it is tending to break up quite a bit of cloud this morning. Further north and west, still quite cloudy for Northern Ireland and the west of scotla nd Northern Ireland and the west of scotland in particular where we have some outbreaks of rain. That will move eastwards. Any showers across scotla nd move eastwards. Any showers across scotland turning heavy, especially in the north east with thunderstorms. For much of england and wales remaining mostly dry with some sunshine. Temperatures, 23 25, warmer than yesterday. 3d even in heavier showers and storms moving across Northern Ireland, pushing into scotland and parts of england and wales overnight tonight. 0vernight temperatures down to 1216. We 0vernight temperatures down to 12 16. We may start thursday with a lot of cloud, heavy showers and those will drift east. For scotland, more showers into the afternoon. Elsewhere, drier and brighter. Temperatures getting into the low 20s. Perhaps even up to the mid 20s in the south east. Goodbye. Youre watching bbc newsroom live. Its 11am and these are the main stories this morning former Prime Minister sirjohn major says he would seek a judicial review if borisjohnson tries to suspend parliament to deliver a no deal brexit. The Prime Ministers advice to the queen can, i believe, be challenged in low and i for one would be prepared to go and seekjudicial review to prevent parliament being bypassed. Conservative leadership candidates Boris Johnson and jeremy hunt clash over President Trump and brexit in a head to head tv debate. No, no, iasked no, no, i asked you no, no, iasked you if no, no, i asked you if you would resign and you did not answer the question. How many more days, exactly would my opponent be willing to delay . How about