Transcripts For BBCNEWS Beyond 100 Days 20240714 : compareme

BBCNEWS Beyond 100 Days July 14, 2024

Theres been extensive damage done to the building, with portraits of political leaders torn from the walls and furniture smashed. This situation is out of control and this is very dangerous, both for the protesters and for the security guards and the police. Hello and welcome. Im jon sopel in washington, david eades is in london. Hong kong is seeing pro democracy demonstrations like never before. After an hours long siege on one of the key government buildings, protesters managed to force their way into the Central Chamber of the regions parliament. Their dissent took the form of maximum disruption and destruction. Emblems grafittied, political portraits torn from the walls, furniture smashed. The Police Responded in kind, charging towards the building after warning protesters to clear it. Since hong kong was handed back to china in 1997, its been governed under the principle of one country, two systems. But as Rupert Wingfield hayes reports, public anger and the latest violence, is putting that system under increasing pressure. Our correspondent nick beake is at the Legislative Council. You wonder where to start. Its been an extraordinary day. This chamber is normally where the politicians have their say but today the only voice was that of protesters. They rushed into this place, overran it. Lets look at what theyve left behind. You have some food here and some of it is still warm. They were obviously setting up camp. Helmets, an umbrella. This is an interesting symbol because this has been used over the past few days as a way of hiding their identity from the police. It was raining today so it also serve that purpose. The officers were setting spray toward some of the protesters and so it meant they were able to take shelter. This is the route to protesters would have taken earlier today. They headed for the main wall and, symbolically, the symbol of hong kong has been defaced, the black graffiti. The portraits of some of the politicians who now have to try and deal with this mess and pick up the pieces. The commissioner of police on the left, the chief executive, carrie lam next to him. Shes attracted so much criticism in the past few weeks. You can talk about provoking a confrontation, the police were saying, clear parliament, otherwise there will be appropriate force used. Is your impression, quite simply, they heeded that warning . Its interesting because they way they hold protest movement has been set up, its being painted as a democratic movement. That is to say there are not defined leaders who have loudspeakers and make announcements and people move. You look at the people here put many teenagers and in their early 20s. Many times they are glued to their phones, that is how they get instructions about what they do next. People have moved in seconds from one place to another because they gets messages on social media apps. They gets messages on social media apps, in particular telegram which has been the chosen app of choice today. So hoot to the authorities try and make an example of because at the moment it seems the protesters have slipped away into the night. There was the prospect of a showdown with the police who belatedly came in but we understand that there have been no arrest so far as that there have been no arrest so farasa direct that there have been no arrest so far as a direct result of this incredible storming of this assembly building. Im watching these pictures live from hong kong and im slightly incredulous you are being given that access after the event this station after this demonstration ended. What is the security situation like they are now . A short time ago there were great numbers of Police Officers who moved in with full riot gear. That was a huge contrast from what we had seen during the day. We were getting whispers there were lots of riot police round the corner primed for action but they never arrived. When i arrived at about midday, around 1a hours ago, and i i arrived at about midday, around 14 hours ago, and i saw the protesters making their way to the entrances to this Building Armed with projectiles, metal railings, anything they could use, and they started smashing the glass, i thought this is it, theyve gone too farand thought this is it, theyve gone too far and its a matter of time before the police come in. They did not and they held back. So you saw protesters running a mock, able to come in here. You are right, weve not really been challenged, some Police Officers asked what we were doing and we politely showed our identification and it seems we are free to do this. The authorities, after being accused of heavy handedness several weeks ago and accusations of Police Brutality on the 12th of june, accusations of Police Brutality on the 12th ofjune, that perhaps resonated and it seems a decision has been taken at the highest level, possibly in concert with beijing, to really sta nd possibly in concert with beijing, to really stand back and you wonder if there will now be pr offensive by there will now be pr offensive by the politicians and police saying this is what happens. There was nothing we could do, we did not want to go in heavy handed. Look at what the protesters have done to your parliament and will see what hong kongers make of this. Whether the more conservative, older generation are repulsed by what theyve seen whether they quietly endorse whats happened. They might not agree with the violence that has been shown but it could be the share the sentiment of the movement. Lets have another look at the pictures. This is outside the legco building where things are so much calmer than literally an hour and a half ago. As we saw the massed ranks of police heading towards the protesters. As nick pointed out, what to make of what weve seen over the past 15 hours or so because it is quite a departure from some of the other demonstrations and there has been mass demonstrations, up to 2 million protesters at one point taking to the streets of hong kong. This had a decidedly different tone. Im joined by the director of the soas the director of China Institute and hejoins me now. It is really very uncharacteristic of hong kong but this may well be the new normal. You will have some local activists, usually the Younger Generations who are very frustrated and they are not really looking at the big picture, theyjust want to airtheir the big picture, theyjust want to air their anger. In that case was this orchestrated, do you think they had a plan to get into the assembly itself or simply cut lets be honest, there was not much resistance, they just cut lets be honest, there was not much resistance, theyjust kept going . I think there was a plan to ram the glass panels of the Legislative Council building, i dont think there is anything beyond that. 0nce they were inside the Legislative Council building and the windows we re Council Building and the windows were smashed, i think some of them just saw an opportunity and therefore they took over at the Legislative Council building without any real planning. If the relate had planned for it they would have put up planned for it they would have put up some kind of resistance when the police tried to clear them away. The fa ct police tried to clear them away. The fact that they did not i think is confirmation they had not planned for it. Steve, what strikes me about looking at these extraordinary pictures we are witnessing today out of hong kong, the power of the demonstrations but also, i suspect, the tolerance of the authorities. The authorities say, you want to storm the legco, you can do so but at some point we will take it back and when we do so, can you please go away . And it looks like they went away . And it looks like they went away without putting up a fight. 0rchestration is at the wrong word but it seems there was a Mutual Respect on the site of the demonstrators and the authorities. I think it reflects the local political culture. Hong kong is a place where people instinctively reject the use of violence. Thats why you could have to out of 7 Million People demonstrating a few weeks ago with no incidents at all. You had situations that the people who occupied the Legislative Council building found themselves there, the government has to decide whether to sit it out or they trying clear its. And the expectation, perhaps, would have been if they did not clear at the Legislative Council building, beijing may feel unhappy about it and start interfering so they took the decision to clear it. And you have enough people inside the Legislative Council building who had the good sense to realise if they continue to resist, blood will be shed and things may escalate and they may even lose what they have got so far. Steve, that such an interesting answer. I wonder what your assessment is what the tactics are of authorities in hong kong . With no doubt and overlooking eye on what hong kong is doing from beijing. Well, they are looking with an eye on what the beijing may think about the situation. They should be very much aware xi xinping has now met with donald trump, there is less of an incentive for beijing to exercise restraint and therefore hong kongs government will have to demonstrate it can keep things in hong kong under control and if they cannot they will risk provoking beijing to ta ke they will risk provoking beijing to take direct action, which nobody in hong kong really wants to see. The demonstration today, the resort to violence is very much regrettable and at one point put hong kong in a very dangerous place and luckily thats been de escalated. The problem is that this isjust thats been de escalated. The problem is that this is just an episode, it doesnt in any way resolve the underlying problem of the extradition bill which is in suspension, which they are protesting about. We are left in a world where many of these activists just achieved something you think they did not even expect to achieve are now going to be emboldened. It would have to be quite a reaction against them from their own supporters to persuade them that this isnt a smart move. Absolutely. Its very difficult for the older democrats in hong kong to persuade the Younger Generation that their use of violence is not helpful and is counter productive. Carrie lam tried to use a face saving way in order to avoid formally withdrawing the bills, she really Must Withdraw the bills and, in fact, her own term as chief executive is now limited. She could do hong kong a big favour by resigning, rather than wait to be removed by beijing and that would ta ke removed by beijing and that would take a lot of the anger away from hong kong and there may be a chance that people would see weve turned a chapter, lets move on. For the moment, thank you very much for that. Ada chan has been protesting on the streets of hong kong today. We can talk to her now. I wonder what your take at this point is of what youve experienced today . For you, i point is of what youve experienced today . Foryou, i imagine, it has been a day of hugely mixed emotions and the very high anxiety and, ultimately, where does this leave you . I was on the street today and this was my first time protesting. Sorry, my fourth time protesting. The first time was on the 9th ofjune. Then we we re time was on the 9th ofjune. Then we were walking peacefully demanding the withdrawal of the extradition bill. To our anger, carrie lam published a press release that night sailing the second reading debate on the bill would not be cancelled, therefore i walked on the streets for the second time and on the 12th ofjune for the third time. What was it like out there today and did you experience a very different atmosphere . Today the atmosphere was a bit different because there was not much protesters as on the 12th ofjune or the 19th ofjune. May be because the people were so desperate and the think the walk on the streets is useless so i think there was much less people on the streets today. I was peacefully walking from Victoria Park but i know some protesters were near the Legislative Council and i note some protesters, including my friend, was inside the Legislative Council. Ada, do you think the process will continue . We heard from steve that saying the authorities have some restraint but there will only be so much they will tolerate. Do you think people will continue to come back out on the streets over at this extradition bill . I think extradition bill . Ithink so, extradition bill . I think so, yes. Because we wont give up until the government do something. Because the protesters have five basic demands, including the stepping down of the current chief executive, carrie lam, the government pays no attention to us. 0k, ada. I am government pays no attention to us. 0k, ada. Iam gratefulto government pays no attention to us. 0k, ada. I am grateful to you. Government pays no attention to us. 0k, ada. Iam gratefulto you. Thank you very much indeed for sharing your experiences out on the streets of hong kong today. Joining me now is former us defense secretary, william cohen. Great to have you with us on a day like this. We were going to talk about north korea and we will come onto that but we need to start here. How significant are the protest we are seeing in hong kong . Notjust for hong kong and the region but only wider level . 0na only wider level . On a wider level look at taiwan because the Chinese Government offered the same policy for the taiwanese as they have offered for hong kong. 0ne system, one country, two systems. We see china gradually has been trying to move much more accelerated timeframe to restrict the liberties in hong kong and that will be a message to the taiwanese as well. When you talk about one country, two systems, you are really intruding upon the two systems and that will make it much more difficult for them to sell that proposition to the taiwanese. I think that has a very significant impact. I thought there was an interesting piece of observation from steve when he said, look, up until donald trump left to go back from asia as he was at the weekend following his visit, president xi xinping may have felt he had to act with one hand behind his back, because he didnt want to incur the wrath of america but, donald trump is no longer in the region, we will do what we like. There is also the notion President Trump doesnt really care about whats taking place in hong kong. He doesnt really show any care about whats taking place in western china. Im not sure the that president xi xinping has to worry about that. Nonetheless, he may have held back. Ithink about that. Nonetheless, he may have held back. I think its clear hes not going to accept the sort of activity on a broader scale in the future. But, again, President Trump doesnt seem to care about promoting human rights or any concern for them. This is a problem, isnt it . Chris patten, the last governor of hong kong said earlier today the British Government is not doing enough to protest to beijing and there is a real concern there is what you said isa real concern there is what you said is a loss of honour from the west in terms of trying to stick to the sorts of promises made to the people of hong kong and other parts of the world. Would you share that view . I think that is a legitimate comment coming from chris. I have known him in the past and respect what he did when he was leading in hong kong. 0ne when he was leading in hong kong. One of the things that is of real concern, when president putin, for example, said a liberal internationalism, liberal governments, as such, liberal democracies are irrelevant today, they have lost their power, when President Trump seems to indicate he no longer shares the same values we have had for years, that unleashes governments around the world, including china and russia and elsewhere, that its order and its power, it is not law and order, but more order and then law. Let me ask you about what happened in korea this weekend because on one level it was hugely momentous. An extraordinary moment of television when donald trump walked across the dmc and took his first steps in north korea. How much has the world change as a result of what happened 01 was change as a result of what happened or was it a made for tv moment we should not get too excited about . I dont think it is an either or proposition. We have photo diplomacy today. In the short term it was a very successful for the president to be seen stepping across that line. The question then becomes as former Vice President mondale asked my friend many years ago, where is the beef . What is to follow from this photo opportunity, will help the Real Progress on the ground, will he identify how many Nuclear Weapons, we they are, what kind of inspections . All the details that go into making a deal had been subordinated to this point so the question becomes what do we get out of this photo opportunity . We have to look at it strategically. We like to look at it strategically. We like to talk about him acting tactically but if you look at this strategically, if he is able to strike a deal with the chinese going into the elections next year, strike a deal with the north koreans, conceivably be invited to travel to moscow to visit president putin and at the extreme level, that would be at the extreme level, that would be a triple hit for him what they could bea a triple hit for him what they could be a home run if he can make progress with iran. These are all political gestures that i think well come to fruition next spring. But stay with north korea first of all. If the deal is north korea is allowed to keep the Nuclear Weapons it has got and has currently built and says i promise, really, we will not build more, is that good enough . Does that represent denuclearisation, does that represent any victory for the west . Not at all. The w

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