Celsius is recorded in heathrow. The killers are headlining at glastonbury this evening, this is the scene live at the festival now. Last night, stormzy became the first black british solo artist to be the top act on the pyramid stage. Pakistan are looking to jump ahead of england in the race for a semifinal spot at the cricket world cup. Now on bbc news the best of the weeks exclusive interviews and reports from the Victoria Derbyshire programme. Welcome to the programme. This week of the other Party Leadership battle, the race to be leader of the liberal democrats. On thursday we we re liberal democrats. On thursday we werejoined by liberal democrats. On thursday we were joined by around 35 people, some lib dems voters and some who voted for others in the past but he could be persuaded to vote for the lib dems in the future. They put their questions to the two candidates vying to be the boss of the lib dems. About a third of the audience are lib dems so they can vote for the candidates and the rest of either voted for them in recent elections might consider voting for them in the future. Some of the people here are members of other parties. First of all we asked both candidates to tell us in one minute why they are the right person for thejob and why they are the right person for the job and to tell you something about them that we dont really know. Joe swinson is first. About them that we dont really know. Joe swinson is first. Usually irun know. Joe swinson is first. Usually i run marathons but now i am running to be the leader of the liberal democrats because i think our country is crying out for a liberal movement to stand up and be an alternative to the narrow nationalism of Boris Johnson alternative to the narrow nationalism of borisjohnson and nigel farage. Our country deserves better than boriss Brexit Britain and we can paint a better vision for the future, one of hope where we transform our economy so it works for the people and the planet where eve ryo ne for the people and the planet where everyone can live with dignity and have the opportunity to thrive and where we work with other countries to tackle the big issues we face from terrorism to the Climate Emergency. The two party system is being fractured and we have a huge opportunity to change our broken politics. We need to reach out to new voters and that is what i am determined to do as leader of the liberal democrats. We can do this together so join liberal democrats. We can do this together sojoin me. Liberal democrats. We can do this together so join me. Ed davey. British politics is in a mess. Divided by brexit, issues like social care, the Climate Emergency is not being tackled. As leader i would want to end brexit quickly. Given that mps made the mess, the quickest ways to take it back to the people. I then hope we vote to stay and we will have a lot more money to fix the problems that led to brexit. I wanted to tackle inequality and help communities left behind and invest heavily in the nhs and schools. I would also make Climate Emergency a priority as the Climate Change cabinet minister i nearly quadrupled britains Renewable Power andl quadrupled britains Renewable Power and i have a plan to a greener economy. I hope that experience and vision can help heal our divided country. As a younger man i almost served our country in a different way. Mi6 tried to recruit me to be a spy way. Mi6 tried to recruit me to be a spy overseas but i had just been appointed to the economic adviser to Paddy Ashdown so i never became 00 david. So you decided to be economic adviser to a lib dems leader rather than be a spy for britain. |j adviser to a lib dems leader rather than be a spy for britain. I believe you can serve your country in an even bigger ways in politics. Less exciting though. Working for paddy was pretty exciting lets get straight to it. The country could be out of the eu without a deal within four months. You want a second referendum hoping that it will reverse brexit. You just dont have time to lobby and persuade collea g u es time to lobby and persuade colleagues and others to get enough mps on board for a second referendum. What are you going to do . I think we do have time to do that stop what you really dont have time. I think we do. We had 280 vote in favour of a peoples vote in parliament. Just 12 votes away from passing. There are more mps that need to rally to that cause. It is not just rallying them, need to rally to that cause. It is notjust rallying them, it is getting it organised and sorted. You cant do that by october 31. We can. If the parliament agrees to have a peoples vote of the European Union has been very clear they will offer an extension. What would need to happen by 31st of october is the parliament to vote for a peoples vote. That requires conservative mps to back it. I do think the prospect ofa to back it. I do think the prospect of a no deal exit is one which is focusing minds in the conservative party right now, including those who are currently ministers who have been arguing in private for a peoples vote but havent backed it yet. Even with a peoples vote it doesnt stop and no deal somewhere down the line, does its . If we have a peoples vote and people voted to remain then it absolutely does. Clearly you would need the extension to the 31st october but the eu has been clear about that. What is your plan to stop no deal . Two big plans have been put about two talks about cross party. One is to pass a new law to require a vote by mps before we leave. That would be the best Legal Protection to stop and no deal brexit. Another option, the nuclear option, is to have a vote of no confidence in the government. We have already heard from tory mps no confidence in the government. We have already heard from tory mp5 on bbcs have already heard from tory mp5 on bbcs panorama panorama there is a numberof mps bbcs panorama panorama there is a number of mps who would vote for no confidence. That could be a general election and we wont be afraid of that. But i would like a government of national unity, bringing the parties together, headed up by a backbench labour mp that would be a temporary government for one purpose alone, to pass legislation for a peoples vote and thenl legislation for a peoples vote and then i believe we can win that vote and we can get out of this mess. Some people think that sounds absolutely crazy, that is effectively the queen cancelling brexit, installing an emergency government with Yvette Cooper or hilary benn. It would be mps voting in parliament is not the queen. The palace could send for the mp, whoever it was, because they were signalling they had support across parties to form a national unity. I know people think it is a bit far fetched at the moment and i get that but we have to be putting these ideas forward, radical ideas, because we have to stop this messed. What do Yvette Cooper and hilary benn make of your idea . |j what do Yvette Cooper and hilary benn make of your idea . I havent spoken to them. But we need to get it out there early on. We are not going to see the colour of Boris Johnsonsjeremy going to see the colour of Boris Johnsons jeremy hunts plan going to see the colour of Boris Johnsonsjeremy hunts plan until september so we need to move on this. I am a lib dem and i also a leaver. If we had another referendum and had an norway style deal at the end of it. With the liberal democrats deliver that because if we ended up in government after general election and had a second referendum and people voted to leave, seeing as the political declaration is quite broad at the moment what would we do then . I think peoples vote needs to have a specific brexit on the ballot paper. The problem we have now is that brexit was allowed to mean whatever people wanted it to mean in 2016. You can see that in the brexiteers in Parliament Even now cannot agree on what brexit should look like. Are you saying that on the ballot paper it would be remain, lead with a deal and leave without a deal . It is best to have remain an brexit specific options so that could be theresa mays deal but if there was a new Prime Minister with a norway style deal, i think that is a norway style deal, i think that is a bit optimistic but. Would you accept the results though of a second referendum when you havent accepted the result of the first . The first referendum gave the government the mandate to negotiate but we didnt have the details of what that would look like. So yes, the answer is if the people vote for a specific brexit option with all of that information then absolutely. A bit like scotland in 2014 when the snp published a white paper at saying this is what an independent scotla nd saying this is what an independent scotland would look like and people we re scotland would look like and people were then able to vote on that proposal. Lets say it was remain, would you accept people who didnt like the result of the second referendum that voted remain agitating for a third referendum . M politics. Yes or no. Yes. In politics. Yes or no. Yes. In politics you always argue for what you believe in. So you would facilitate a third referendum . No, i dont think so. I think we need to put this issue to bed. The people feel they have already put this issue to bed . I am a solicitor and management consultants. My issue is we have already had this decision, the people have voted, i voted remain but now i respect the outcome of that. Why cant you . My other question is ive lost a huge faith in our government and political system. You say you represent the people but you have just expressed theirand people but you have just expressed theirand i feel people but you have just expressed their and i feel this is your campaign and not that of the people. So who are you really representing . Jo swinson has said that if a second referendum happens and the vote was remain. Would you, ed davey . No. Because you have the answer that you wanted. I believe a second referendum with the huge amount of information we know now should be respected. I wouldnt change my view. Ive lost elections and it doesnt mean that i would lose hope in liberal democracy and my values. I think we would actually not really go forward for a third referendum. That would be to destabilising. Can i make the point is, annoys me when people say we are undemocratic to wa nt people say we are undemocratic to want a vote. Vote is democratic. It would be undemocratic if we said we we re would be undemocratic if we said we were going to cancel brexit without the people making the decision. The point they are making as it is undemocratic to not deliver on the outcome of a vote. Lets look the polls. There has been a switch to remain, a significant switch. In a democracy people are allowed to change their mind. The reason they say it is undemocratic is because you havent delivered on the first one. We are talking about something thatis one. We are talking about something that is an irrevocable decision for our country, going down a path that we cannot in three or four years time say we are going to change this. This is an irrevocable decision and step to be taken. If we do not have confidence that is what the people want us to do and i do not have confidence and thats because of that is proposed to be no deal there are plenty of people, not least in parliament, who said they voted for leave but wouldnt have done so if they knew it was no deal. Also plenty of brexiteers have seen theresa mays deal and said they would rather stay in the eu. If we do not have confidence that the public are behind any type of brick sets, how can we take that irrevocable step in all good conscience . What i wanted to ask was ifa conscience . What i wanted to ask was if a second brexit referendum was going ahead. Sorry, i am trying to get my thoughts together. Going ahead. Sorry, i am trying to get my thoughts togetherlj going ahead. Sorry, i am trying to get my thoughts together. I think it is if they would allow a second Scottish Referendum . Is if they would allow a second Scottish Referendum . Yes. I dont think we should have that. Are you a hypocrite then . No, because there is a big difference. In 2014 in scotla nd a big difference. In 2014 in scotland we had a debate which was based on a very detailed right white paper that said this is our plan for an independent scotland. But if britain leaves the eu then circumstances will have changed, will they not . There is not a mandate in scotland to have a second independent referendum. The snp have been putting forward their case and have been losing their seat. This was a key issue in the election and myself and others got elected. What most people in scotland want is scotla nd most people in scotland want is scotland in the uk and the uk in the eu and it is only the liberal democrats that are making that case and standing up for both of those propositions. I agree with joe. It was clear that in the independence referendum there was a detailed plan for those who wanted independence completely different to brexit when there was no plan whatsoever. brexit is delivered whenever that may be then things will have changed. We have seen how difficult and costly for britain to even begin to prepare to leave the eu which has beena to prepare to leave the eu which has been a participation for 40 or 50 years. Imagine how complicated it would be for scotland to leave the United Kingdom when it has been in a union for over 300 years. I really worry about the impact it will have on ordinary peoples lives in scotland. Brexit will be pretty disruptive. Add onto that Scottish Independence and i think people would say you are just ruining our lives and our country. I am a labour voter that cant vote for corbyn so lam voter that cant vote for corbyn so i am looking for a new home. Regardless of what happens in the future of brexit i would be interested in your plans for healing the enormous rifts in the country. What can be done . Can ijust ask you, do you think a second referendum is part of the healing process or does it continue the division is . Difficult to say. I personally would appreciate a second referendum could because i dont think we had the facts when we voted on the first one. Applause would you appreciate a second referendum . The issue is we would need a third. On the workings of article 50, if you have a referendum just after the uk has finished with its current stage of negotiations you can promise a norway style deal but you would have to have a referendum on the final negotiations after that. Ok, healing the divisions. It is interesting that you are worried about jeremy corbyn. I think that the labour party has gone to the far left and the conservative party is adopting quite right wing positions as well. I believe the liberal democrats have to bea believe the liberal democrats have to be a political home to those pro eu labour social to be a political home to those pro eu labour social democrats to be a political home to those pro eu labour social democrats and is equally to these pro eu tories. We can be that political home we can have a programme whether it investing in Public Services, schools, dealing with Climate Emergency are tackling homelessness, i think we could give a really strong lead and be a party of government. Jo . There are lots of divisions in our society in this moment but there are two big divides about the brexit vote and one of those as economic and one is cultural. In economic issue we have to be honest that the economy is broken, it doesnt work for so many people who work hard and try to get on and still find a living in poverty and cannot get out of it. We do need transformation and part of thatis do need transformation and part of that is about investment and Public Services but it is also about changing how our economy works. That is one way to start healing. On the cultural issues what really worries me about that brexit vote is not just about what it said about eu institutions but in terms of what kind of country we are and our liberal values. Those are under threat. When i was growing up in the 19805 threat. When i was growing up in the 1980s and 1990s, it felt like there was a lot of inequality but things we re was a lot of inequality but things were going in the right direction. Now none of that is for granted. We have seen spikes in hate crime, our country becoming a less tolerant price. I think as liberals we need to be very robust in making the case for our liberal values as a society. Our country becoming a less tolera nt our country becoming a less tolerant place. I voted liberal democrat in 2010 but was absolutely horrified by the coalition and your participation in austerity. I would be interested to know if the liberal democrats are prepared to take any responsibility for the brexit vote being delivered. I think austerity was a huge element behind the delivery of the brexit vote and it was expressing frustration about the fa ct was expressing frustration about the fact the economy had been crashed by a Certain Group of people and instead of them being made to pay for it the poorest and most needy in society were forced to pay for it again and again. Lets get a yes or no to that. Do you accept responsibility for the Eu Referendum being held . I dont. As a member of the government i have to take responsibility for the measures it implemented. Do you regret any of those austerity measures that you voted for . There are ones i felt very difficult. Do you regret it . I regret doing things i didnt believe m, regret doing things i didnt believe in, of course. What did you do that you didnt believe in . |j in, of course. What did you do that you didnt believe in . I wasnt happy with the second bedroom tax for example. But you voted for it . When you are in a coalition and doing things like quadrupling Renewable Power and other things, we managed to get a huge amount in place. If you are in a compromised situation you dont get everything you want. Therefore you had to give ina few you want. Therefore you had to g