Liverpool university has apologised and is looking into the issues. But are other universities failing disabled students . Let us know your experiences. Prison governors should wear uniforms to help them restore law and order in prisons, according to a new report out today. The authors, the centre for socialjustice, have released footage shot on mobile phones by prisoners depicting acts of violence, and packages being thrown over prison walls. Over we go. More, more. Man, im getting hella packs in. The report also recommendsjunior prison officers should sometimes be subject to an amnesty if theyve colluded with prisoners. Well bring you the details. And this woman was the first person in the country to be prescribed cannabis on the nhs to treat her chronic pain, but shes been told by local health board and crime commissioner that shes breaking the law by growing and using it. Shes now appealing directly to the home secretary to clarify the law. So i have taken cannabis this morning. It is what gets me out of bed. It is the same for thousands and thousands of patients around the uk. What i want is an acknowledgement that what i am doing, in treating myself, it is not in the Public Interest for me to be prosecuted for that. Hello. Welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. Should victims of serious crimes including rape be asked to hand their phones over to police . Thats whats happening in england and wales, because a number of rape and serious Sexual Assault cases collapsed after crucial evidence emerged late in the day. Victims are being told prosecutions may not go ahead if they cant hand over evidence. What do you think . Let me know by using the hashtag victoria live. If youre emailing and are happy for us to contact you and maybe want to take part in the Programme Please include your phone number in your message. If you text, youll be charged at the Standard Network rate. First anita has the news. People making Rape Allegations in england and wales are being asked to allow access to their mobile phones and social media accounts or risk seeing the case being dropped. The move is part of measures revealed by the director of Public Prosecutions to address failures in the disclosure of evidence to defendants. The Charity Victim support has criticised the move, saying it could discourage victims from reporting crimes. A Uk University has been accused of disadva ntaging disabled students after charging for long term assignment extensions due to medical needs. One university of liverpool student told this programme how she was unable to afford the extra £200 tuition fee, and was locked out of her student account with no access to emails or documents for her dissertation. She said the institution had not been accommodating or sympathetic. The university apologised and said it was reviewing its policy. Spains socialist Prime Minister is hoping to form a new Coalition Government following the countrys general election, which also saw a breakthrough by the far right. Pedro sanchez will need the support of other parties after failing to win a majority. The right wing vox party has won 2a seats. Its the first time a far right party has entered Parliament Since the end of military rule in the 1970s. A major study has highlighted the scale of the obesity problem in the uk, with a significant risk of death and disease attached to weight gain. People with a body mass index, or bmi, of 30 35 were at 70 higher risk of developing Heart Failure than their healthy weight peers. The study of 2. 8 million adults showed even slightly overweight people were twice as likely to get type 2 diabetes. Public Health England says sustained action is needed to tackle obesity. Over 50s in england could be forced to pay more than £300 a year extra in national insurance, under new proposals to help fund social care. The report, from former cabinet minister damian green and the centre for policy studies, also calls on social care to be funded in a similar way to a state pension, with a personal top up option. The government says its put extra money into social care and future plans will be published soon. Emergency measures, banning sri lankans from covering theirfaces in public areas, have come into force. The countrys president said the decision was in response to the Easter Sunday bomb attacks that killed at least 250 people. An announcement said peoples faces should be fully visible to allow identification, though the niqab and burqa worn by muslim women were not mentioned specifically. Firefighters have been battling a fierce blaze overnight at a forest in east sussex, best known as the setting for the winnie the pooh stories. Gorse and undergrowth was ablaze affecting an area of up to 50 acres thats 20 hectares the ashdown forest. At its height, six fire crews were on the scene. This has now been scaled back to four fire engines and crews. Avengers endgame has made Box Office History by taking a record breaking 1. 2 billion in global ticket sales in its opening run. The disney blockbuster has become the fastest film ever to break the 1 billion barrier, doing so in just five days. Endgame is the 22nd offering in the Marvel Studios superhero franchise. That is a summary of the main use. Back to you, joanna. Liverpool university has apologised this morning, and is conducting a review of its policies, after this programme found that disabled students at the university of liverpool have been charged for long term extensions to their assignments because of ill health. Two students weve spoken to were charged a total of £250 each for two extensions. One was locked out of her University Account because she couldnt afford to pay. Other disabled students have told us that theyve been scheduled into lectures in inaccessible rooms. One wheelchair user was sat behind frosted glass, and couldnt see the lecturer or any of the notes. Well be hearing from Liverpool University in a moment, after this report from alex gatenby. Last year, over 94,000 disabled students enrolled at university in england, encouraged by universities pledging to improve inclusivity in Higher Education. But some students at Liverpool University say these vows are empty promises. The support has been extremely inconsistent and at times just completely not there. I just feel quite marginalised really, from all of these experiences. This programme has learned that the university of liverpool has been charging disabled students who require long term extensions to their assignments because of ill health. The University Policy states that students face a fee for extending their studies into a new academic year, even if they need the extra time because of personal or medical reasons, also known as extenuating circumstances. This happened to students felicity and kayley, who have mental and physical Health Conditions. We both had e mails from the university to say wed be charged. The invoice said £50 for each of us. This was for the first three month extension that we both got. Following this first charge, both kayley and felicity were granted a second extension. But kayley was once again contacted about a charge, this time for £200. Im locked out of my University Account because ive been charged for an extension and i cant pay for the charge at the moment. So ive got no access to my emails, no access to documents for my dissertation. Kayley complained about the £200 charge to the university, but instead of this solving the problem, felicity was also charged the same amount for her second extension. Literally a week later, a week after id paid the £50 out of my own money, i got an invoice for the second extension i got, for £200. The two charges were both justified based on tuition. Well, it was listed as tuition on the invoice, but they said it was an admin charge in person. Both kayley and felicity found that no one seemed to know which department was responsible for the charges. I think it really disadvantages disabled students. Youve already got support needs that are getting in the way of you completing your studies to yourfull ability, and then youve got to put all this extra effort, all this extra energy, into getting your extension secured and challenging people when you feel like somethings been done unfairly. Weve raised their complaints with the university, who now say that they are reviewing charging for extensions. They also pointed out that while her accepted extension is due to a health condition, kayley is not registered with them as a disabled student. But these deadline charges are just one of the concerns i found about Disability Support at Liverpool University. Under the equality act 2010, organisations have a responsibility to ensure that disabled people are as able to Access Services and education as non disabled people. But a recent freedom of information request has revealed that only 57 out of more than 100 University Buildings are fitted with general use lifts, meaning many are inaccessible for physically disabled students. And 77 of those buildings do not have an evacuation lift, which enables wheelchair users, or otherwise physically disabled students, to evacuate safely in the case of a fire. Nana has Cerebral Palsy and uses a wheelchair, and shes struggled with accessibility at liverpool. Her support plan, a document which sets out the adjustments needed for her disability, states that she requires Wheelchair Accessible teaching rooms and should not be picked to speak in lectures or seminars because of her anxiety around her stammer. You can kind of turn up to some of the lectures and lecturers didnt read my support plan, because number of them would pick me to speak in the seminars. So, how many times have you now been scheduled into rooms that are inaccessible to you . So you cant actually see any of the lecture notes or the lecturer . No. Universities are obligated to provide all disabled students with a personal emergency evacuation plan, or peep. But nana wasnt contacted about hers when she started at liverpool. So she asked for a meeting with a member of staff in her second year, an experience she told me she found uncomfortable. What is in your peep plan then . The university of liverpool have now apologised for the timetabling of lectures in inaccessible rooms. Theyve also removed the frosted glass. Nanas experience is not an isolated case. Undergraduate studentjulia set up the Disability Society to voice her frustrations. I just got to a stage where i was so angry at the university for not helping me, putting in the support in place, i realised that it wasntjust me who was having these issues, it was a lot of students. Julia has various Health Conditions which require Additional Support, including Chronic Fatigue syndrome and the connected tissue disorder, Ehlers Danlos hypermobility. This is sort of my general box of medications. It causes her chronic pain, as even climbing stairs can cause her joints to partially or fully dislocate. How has the university been in terms of their support towards you . Extremely inconsistent and at times just completely not there. Im not supposed to have two exams in the same day because of my fatigue. I had these two exams on the same day, and i got in there and i was presented with this office chair, which was already sloping because it had got to that broken stage already. And in my support plan, it says im supposed to have a ergonomic chair. An ergonomic chair is a chair that at least has arms on the sides of it and properly supports yourform. It was physically a test of my pain tolerance, and not my academic ability. Like nana, julia was also not contacted about a personal emergency evacuation plan. The university now say that they are sorry and have since contacted them both to rectify this. They also told us that they are committed to fulfilling their obligations under the equality act, and work hard to provide individual support. But they accept that there are occasions where they have fallen short, and say they will involve disabled students more regularly in their Decision Making Going Forward something all of the students in this film say they would welcome. They say theyre happy that certain policies are being reviewed, but would appreciate a personal apology from the university and a justification for the £200 charge. Lets speak now to paul redmond, director of Student Access at the university of liverpool. Thank you forjoining us. Just picking up on what felicity said in their report about the charge for extensions for people who are disabled, she said she was told the cost was an admin fee. What is it for . It covers a range of different support services, tuition, it covers Student Support teams, it also covers Additional Support that stu d e nts covers Additional Support that students might need. It is £50 for a three month period but as we said in the report, we are reviewing that 110w the report, we are reviewing that now but it covers a range of different support services. £50 for a three month extension then £200 for another extension period sounds quite random and when you talk about the kind of support you say it is painful, it sounds like a very small amount to the university but to the individual students, it is a lot of money and some cannot pay. Yes. The policy stated it was £50 for a three month period. I cant go into the specific cases with students but obviously, there is something in the communication that has not worked well so i will be following this up directly after the programme with the students involved. Essentially, the students involved. Essentially, the policy stated it was £50 for a three month extension beyond the academic year. What do you and you will be following it up immediately after the programme with the stu d e nts after the programme with the students involved . After the programme with the students involved . Will you after the programme with the students involved . Will you be offering them their money back . What will you be saying . I want to find out what happened and in particular, how this has been communicated to them. We have this policy in place, and it was a fairly clear policy that the university has had but clearly the communications to the stu d e nts clearly the communications to the students has not been as clear as it should have been so i want to look at that to see how we can rectify this. I want to make clear that we are this. I want to make clear that we a re really this. I want to make clear that we are really on the side of the stu d e nts are really on the side of the students here. We want to make sure the students have a great time at university and that they are learning successfully and they are able to achieve their goals. The last thing we want to hear is that students, particularly those already face barriers and problems, are struggling. That is the last thing the university wants to do. So then when we heard from julia in our report saying she got to the point where she was so angry with having repeatedly raised issues, and realising she was not alone, others we re realising she was not alone, others were in the same boat, how do you feel about that . I am really upset and disappointed as the director of student experience, obviously, i am here to make sure the students have a superb experience. We have 3000 stu d e nts a superb experience. We have 3000 students who have declared disabilities to us and we want them to have a great time at university. Most are only with us for a short time, about 1000 days, most are only with us for a short time, about1000 days, on most are only with us for a short time, about 1000 days, on average, so we time, about 1000 days, on average, so we want to make sure liverpool is a superb experience for them and everybody counts. I will be speaking to the four students directly afterwards to make sure we are getting their message across to them and that we are living up to the high standards that we set ourselves. Have they been let down, though . This has been their experience, this has impacted on their experience. How do you put that right . We have got to obviously listen to students more. We are going to meet with students more often. We are going to look at our processes. Often. We are going to look at our processes. As i said right at the start, we are looking to review our policies. Obviously, they are not as clear as they could be. We are really disappointed by this, it is the last thing we want to hear, that stu d e nts the last thing we want to hear, that students are having a bad time at university. Sorry to interrupt because obviously, what you are saying is that you are hearing what is going on and you want to look at things Going Forward but these people who has been affected, how do you put it right for them . We have got to talk to them and listen to what their problems are. We have already made some advances, we talked about the screen that was around one of the students, nana, that has been worked on and we have clear glass now. But it is not good enough and we have obviously fallen short of our high expectations. All ican do short of our high expectations. All i can do is. Sorry to interrupt again but that was a really good example because when you see the footage that she showed, showing us what she can see from her perspective, it was a very clear example of the importance of when somebody has an issue, seeing it through their eyes and it sounds like you are saying you want to do that Going Forward. But what about theseissues that Going Forward. But what about these issues of other accessibility . You know, i have got a student myself, my daughter is at university, so i can clearly understand what it must be like for the students to experience that. If you look at liverpools campus, we have 300 buildings across the university campus, which is two and a half times bigger than manchester airport. We have a range of different buildings we have to work on, to make sure they are as accessible as possible for students. It is an ongoing process and we are reviewing it on a regular basis. It is an ongoing process and we are reviewing it on a regular basislj know that you are not a lawyer, paul, but you said that you are looking at the extension payment policy and reviewing what happens Going Forward. We will be speaking ina Going Forward. We will be speaking in a moment to a lawyer that says he believes that policy is unlawful because it disadvantages disabled students. Have you taken legal advice on it . Yes, we have. The advice on it . Yes, we have. The advice we have received is that we are compliant with the legislation. But for me, it goes beyond the legal requirements. We have got moral and ethical requirements and responsibilities to make sure that oui responsibilities to make sure that our students have a great time when they are at liverpool. We know already that our disabled students arejust as already that our disabled students are just as likely as the rest of the student body to get a first or an upper second. They are just as likely as any other student to go into highly skilled implement. So we get a lot right but obviously theres still a lot to work on. Are you sorry it has taken so long and having it broadcast on tv, for these issues to be looked at . Obviously, i would like to be able to tell eve ryo ne would like to be able to tell everyone about the great thing is the university does but for me as director of student experience, to hear that four students, felicity, kayley, nana and julia have had a less tha n kayley, nana and julia have had a less than positive experience is something i am really upset about andi something i am really upset about and i will be taking responsible etive or directly after the. Full, thank you very much. Paul. These issues are wider than Liverpool University. With me now is chris fry, a solicitor who deals with disability discrimination cases, Rachel Obrien whos the National Union of students disabled students officer and Felicity Mitchell from an independent body set up to review student complaints about Higher Education providers in england and wales. Julia robbins, head of the Disability Society at Liverpool University is also here. Julia, you were in the report as well. You heard from paul redmond, there. How do you respond to what he was saying . Well, um. Obviously, it is good to know that he is going to be contacting us personally, but iam to be contacting us personally, but i am actually still quite troubled that not all students are being contacted and that their support plans and so on are still not being properly put into place. I have also looked at the 2026 strategy to sort of promote equality stop nowhere in it does it talk about accessibility 01 it does it talk about accessibility or actually helping the barriers that disabled students face getting into the workplace. I also think that it into the workplace. I also think thatitis into the workplace. I also think that it is absolutely outrageous, having to pay for extensions when universities are run from public money and also, our own student finance already. He is going to be meeting you and the others who we have also spoken to. It is the first i have heard about it but it will be nice. He said that he wants to take, obviously to feed these experiences into changing things Going Forward, and using the phrase in our discussion about seeing things through the eyes of the people who are affected through the eyes of the people who a re affected by through the eyes of the people who are affected by it. How powerful will that potentially be . Are affected by it. How powerful will that potentially be . |j are affected by it. How powerful will that potentially be . I really hope it is really powerful, because as rachel mentioned earlier, by helping disabled students, you know, you are helping a lot of students and making things easierfor them when things go wrong within their lives, which you cant. You know. We are focusing obviously on liverpool because we have spoken to the students there, but how widespread would you say these issues are . So charging for extensions, liverpool is the only place i have heard of that has done that but not putting in the appropriate or needed, like reasonable adjustments, is extremely common. Reasonable adjustments, is extremely common. I get many reports from students in Higher Education across the country all the time. What kind of complaints do you hear . Especially it has increased the lot michael a lot in the last couple of years, especially in regards to things like things that were previously provided by the government under the disabled students allowance, things like note takers, students allowance, things like note ta ke rs, scribes, students allowance, things like note takers, scribes, that sort of band of non medical help, the university is now responsible for providing those things and that tends to be where the complaints often come about. So felicity, if somebody has got an issue, they can come to you in the office of the independent adjudicator . That is right. How many people are coming forward with complaints about issues of disability . We see about 2000 complaints a year and last year, about 5 of those complaints were directly related to students disability, the complaint was about disability. Students should normally complain internally to the university or the Higher Education provider before they come to us but if they are not happy with the result of the internal complaint, they can complain to us for free and we look at it independently and if something has gone wrong, we make recommendations to the Higher Education provider, to put things right for the student. We can make practical recommendations, like putting in place the kind of support and adjustments that students are looking. Quite what kind of things come through to you . Are you surprised by some of the complaints . As you say, the first port of call is for the students to try to resolve it with the university but in the cases that get to you, that is not happening . That is right, sometimes. Theres a lot of good work going on in the Higher Education sector at the moment to try to promote Inclusive Learning so that students have the adjustments in place automatically. But that is not always working out. So we do see complaints where the recommended support has not been put in place all the. Something has deteriorated in the students condition and the adjustments have not kept up with that. Sometimes, students are not able to access the funding that they need to get the support in place. How many times do you. I support in place. How many times do you. I dont know, do you effectively make a ruling, do you rule in favour of the student or the university question much can you give us a sense of the proportion . It is usually about 25 of cases that we find to be justified or partly justified. That we find to be justified or partlyjustified. Last year, it was slightly lower. We think that is partly because by the time the student gets to us, they have been through internal processes, so some of the complaints have been resolved internally which is obviously a good thing. But we do feel that a lot of students dont know about us and they dont know how to find us and they dont know how to find us and they are perhaps not it not getting pointed in the right direction. Chris, you are a solicitor specialising in disability issues, so if the student is really unhappy, i guess you are the kind of last port of call. How many students tend to come to you . We receive phone calls from students in the crisis situations almost every day. Not all of them go on to require cou nty not all of them go on to require county Court Proceedings but a good number do. Almost. I dont think we have had a single trial stand up where we have been involved. Usually, what we find is that we go infairly usually, what we find is that we go in fairly quickly, we apply for injunctive relief, the threat of the Legal Process is usually sufficient to bring universities directly to the table. Is the law clear on discrimination . In other words, you know, is it quite straightforward if universities, for universities to look at it and know that in the end, the law is there and it should resolve it . It is well established comedy equality act has been in force since 2010 and the disability dissemination act in 1995. The university is a Service Provider and a student is a service user and the Service Provider is required to anticipate the needs of its disabled customers. And to make reasonable adjustments in anticipation of those needs. They ought to be looking at all sorts of policies and practices and assessing whether they have a direct or indirect disadvantage to the disabled service users. In this case, a policy which they might apply equally across every student clearly has a substantial disadvantage at its outcome to disabled students. That is an indirect form of disco nation and is one which is actionable of discrimination. As far as you are concerned, the fees should not be happening because you are absolutely not. Paul redmond says they have taken advice as well and they are acting within the law. Bringing in some viewers comments because lots of people are getting in touch, this one says, disabled students are viewed as a nuisance at university. Iama viewed as a nuisance at university. I am a mid tier student and i have been openly disconnected against. A mature student. The disco nation is not discreet nor is any support offered by the disabled student service. I feel like offered by the disabled student service. Ifeel like im apologising all the time for being disabled and needing support. They were happy enough to take my money. Im shocked that those with physical this ability is are treated poorly as bad for the many says, thank you for covering universities mishandling of disabilities and disco nation. I can confirm as a disabled student, this problem is not confined to liverpool, it is widespread and endemic even at top universities in the uk. We have had another anonymous e mail saying, i have heard of an Adult Education college which is on the second floor of a building which has a but students are being turned away if they cannot walk down the two flights of steps unaided, so they are discouraged from applying in the first place, and they dont appear on any stats. Back to you, julia, in terms of the pressure that this puts on you if you are in a situation where you are having to deal with this issues around just getting on with your studies and what is the pressure on you . If honestly, its massive, a lot of people have long term Health Conditions, i spent a lot of my time dealing with Health Care Appointments and so on and my health as well. And then my University Studies and on top of that, unexpected and its made quite clear by the university that they expect the students to come forward and to basically fight for everything. You very much have to show that you are deserving of the support that actually is you are very much entitled to. Which, it makes everything a lot harder and ive actually had to change my course into a four year course, just to be able to try and get everything done because i face so many barriers from my own health but also from the University Just not supporting my own health but also from the universityjust not supporting me in the way that it legally should. Stay in touch, let us know how the meeting goes. Thank you all so much. Carly barton was the first person to be prescribed Medicinal Cannabis on the nhs in england last year, after the law changed to allow some patients to receive it. But her prescription was blocked, so shes still breaking the law and she told us exclusively today that after a meeting with her local crime commissioner, shes now appealing directly to the home secretary sajid javid to clarify the law. Carly suffers from a condition called fibromyalgia which causes debilitating pain she says the only thing that helps her to manage that pain is using cannabis. Shes now growing her own supply because shes run out of money to pay for private prescriptions. Shes told local Police Chiefs exactly what shes doing, but theyve told her shes breaking the law and they cant simply turn a blind eye. Ive been talking to carly, and also to ron hogg, the Police Commissioner for durham and to neurologist Professor Mike barnes. I was given a private prescription in november. That cost a lot of money, it cost £1,a00 for one month supply which is, on average, is double the average mortgage and isnt sustainable for anybody really, i dont think. And so i could not afford to continue that and i went to my nhs doctor. After that private prescription was thoroughly reviewed by my private pain specialist and deemed completely successful, my nhs doctor then wrote the first ever nhs prescription for cannabis which was monumental and incredible and feltjust like a massive relief. However, she got it passed to board meetings with the trust with brighton and hove trust, and then it was then blocked by the medical Governance Group at the very last minute. On the grounds of what . On the grounds of that cannabis is not a tested medicine. So at the moment the guidelines as michael knows the guidelines say we cant recommend this as medicine because we dont have enough Clinical Evidence but a doctor is free to make that decision and if they think that its in the best interest of the patient. My doctor did that. However, its not going to work pushing it through the nhs system at the moment because as soon as it gets to the mj who needs to tick the box, the first box they need to tick is has the medicine got enough evidence, so weve come across so many different hurdles. I think its clear now that it cant be put through the special process within the nhs. Ok, so before we talk more about that just tell us a bit more about why cannabis because obviously there are very strong painkillers that you could easily be getting on the nhs. Why not . I have tried all of the every single drug that is available for my condition and some that arent licensed for my condition but ive tried anyway. Ive tried every kind of opiate, barbiturates, benzodiazepines. I was on morphine and fentanyl for six years which left me completely incapable of functioning to the point where i was in bed. I was housebound for about six years. I was unable to communicate. I was unable to manage and not only that but it didnt manage my pain at all. I was still screaming the house down in pain. Im sat here and i am able to stand up and sit down without pain currently because ive taken cannabis this morning. Explain more about how you take it, do you smoke it, do you get high . So, i use it in an inhaler so its a little gadget. Its great little gadget that you put the cannabis in and it heats the cannabis up, produces vapor which you then inhale and its a really effective way of medicating because it gets straight into your bloodstream really, really quickly. And for me when im having an acute episode of pain or spasticity, it can bring those symptoms down in a matter of two or three minutes that no the pharmaceutical drugs have ever been able to achieve. So in order to get cannabis now youre growing your own. Thats obviously illegal. Yeah. So youve gone to the your local police and crime commissioner to try to be allowed to to effectively do so to to have an amnesty. What was the conversation that you had there . So i started growing my own, i walked into the Police Station and i said, here, this is where my plants are. This is the location of my plants. I am not prepared to go back to a wheelchair. Im not prepared to go back to addictive opiates. To the state i was in. I got a medicine that is working for me and if i cannot get legal access i will continue to access illegally, the safest way for me to do that and for me to access the strains that i need is by growing my own. And so i walked into the Police Station with that disclosure. And i spoke to the pcc about the project that i am running which is carlys amnesty and that is an interim measure to allow the patients that are being denied cannabis, such as myself that were supposed to be accounted for last summer. So the four indications for chronic pain, spasticity, and nausea and chemotherapy and intractable epilepsy. And so those patients at the moment we are failing and they are having to access potentially unsafe, very unsafe products on the black market, putting their lives at risk putting their families at risk, putting. And you know they have theyre living under a fear of arrest. So youre saying if we can grow our own, well do itjust for ourselves and that. Obviously, it is illegal. Cultivation carries a sentence potentially of 1a years. So, you want, as you say, there to be an amnesty. Yes. Did you get. I spoke to katie boyle on the pcc, it was a productive conversation. She is all for medical cannabis. She said she shouted from the rooftops when the medical cannabis bill came in last year. Shes very pro medical cannabis, however. She doesnt feel that she is able to advise the police to and to join my scheme until she gets the ok from the home office. So that is my next mission is to. We need to sit down with the home office and speak about ways in which we can develop something to stop criminalizing those patients in the meantime. So lets bring in ron hogg, then because ron you are Durham Police and crime commissioner. What would you do if carly lived in your patch. Well sadly like my colleague in sussex i couldnt give carly permission but id be very keen to support term carlys concept of the amnesty. I am a great supporter of the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes. And the government needs to really square its policy because the uk is the largest exporter of cannabis for medicinal purposes in the world. And so if its good enough for people in other countries its good enough for our own folk here to get cannabis as a medicine at an affordable price. Have you had any cases like this in durham . Carlys story sadly is very, very familiar. Our view in durham is that we do not prioritize people who grow cannabis for their own purposes. We do not prioritize people who smoke cannabis. If theres a problem report it, yes, well deal with it but we think that really we have to be sensible about our approach to cannabis and understand a, the medical benefits and b, the fact that so many people do smoke it anyway. So when you say you dont prioritize people who are growing it for medicinal use does that mean if you know if somebody like carly came to the doorstep of the police and said i am doing this and obviously the police know its not legal, would they be obliged to prosecute at that point . Can they turn a blind eye . I dont think theyre necessarily obliged to prosecute because i think the defense that carly could put up is an admissible defence. Personally, you know, i. We dont take, i say a proactive stance. We dont pursue these individuals who are using it for medicinal purposes but its perhaps best not to ask because if you dont like the answer to the question which unfortunately carly doesnt, and i do appreciate her position and sympathize with her, its perhaps best that we just turn a bit of a blind eye to this whether it is medicinal purposes but. Sorry to come in there, because i mean obviously carly is trying to doy everything by the book, she wants to not have the prospect of a prosecution hanging over her but it sounds from what youre saying that your advice to people would be to say keep quiet about it, the police will turn a blind eye, youll be all right, dont worry. Thats probably about the best we can do, thats why im very keen to support her amnesty concept, i think it makes eminently good sense and because we know for a fact that the sort of disorders that cannabis can assist and amongst them are anxiety disorders, the anxiety of having to buy street grade cannabis which we know is dangerous or grow your own with the threat of prosecution, is not good and i like to think weve got a more enlightened approach here in durham. As i say, we cannot offer immunity but i think we can Work Together with individuals and with and with communities here. I mean the position that carly is in is that she should actually be able to get as the law stands the cannabis on prescription. But from what were hearing there is a disconnect between what happened in november last year and whats the reality on the ground. How long do you think it might take actually for that for when someone like carly is prescribed cannabis on the nhs to actually be able to get it. Sadly, i dont think itll be quick. If we take the experience from places like canada that are ahead of us by three or four years, it took three or four years for money of the doctors in canada to even feel reasonably robust enough to make a referral to the cannabis specialist. Now, hopefully the experience and a lot of other countries canada as part of the states, germany, spain, italy, will encourage the doctors in the uk to be a little bit quicker about accepting this medication. I feel they might not, i think it has a long way to go. We need to get better guidelines for doctors with those at the moment are really unnecessarily restrictive. We need to do Ongoing Research, yes, but it should be Ongoing Research in parallel with prescribing what is actually a very safe product that we know an awful lot about. We shouldnt forget this is not a new medicine. You know, many millions of people have used this medicine for 3,000 years. We know an awful lot about what it does and what it doesnt do. Carly, weve had a statement from the home office saying the government has no plans to decriminalise recreational cannabis. It would send the wrong message to the vast majority of people who do not take drugs especially young and Vulnerable People with the potential grave risk of increased misuse of drugs. However, specialist doctors can now prescribe cannabis based products for medical use where there is Clinical Evidence of benefit. And obviously youve had your prescription and weve been talking about what happened with that. Have you had any contact with sajid javid . I havent had direct contact. Advisers have spoken to other ministers and mps. They are all very positive about the scheme. So im hopeful that we can sit down and work this out because at the moment what weve got is a lot of buck passing weve got you know the health side saying this is a criminal issue, we need to stop criminalizing them. You know were trying to do the work. Its going to take a long time and weve got the home office saying this is a health issue. But my idea and my scheme is about bringing those two things together and providing at least some access in the meantime or even not access, what were doing is just and just asking the authorities to simply do nothing. In the case where we can prove that thats a legitimate patient so theyre aware of whats going on on your side. Have you a meeting set up yet . Not yet. So im very much looking forward to to arranging that and sitting down and speaking with him. Victims of crime in england and wales including those alleging rape are being asked to give Police Access to their phones and social media accounts, or risk seeing their case dropped. It comes after a number of rape and serious Sexual Assault cases collapsed after crucial evidence emerged late in the day. Campaigners fear it could discourage victims from going ahead with prosecutions. Samuel armstrong was cleared of rape in 2017, and believes he would have gone to prison, had the complainant not had her phone thoroughly searched. Alsojoining us is silkie carlo, director of big brother watch, an organisation which defends Civil Liberties and protects privacy. They have launched a campaign against this policy. Welcomed both of you. What is your view of this policy . Its essentially formalising digital strip searches of people who have already been victims of a very serious crime and its completely the wrong direction for police to go down. They are now burdening themselves with reams and reams of data that are irrelevant to the crime. Weve seen instances where there is a strange rape and police have requested years of data from victims, looking at cloud storage, social media accounts and naturally its deterring some people from Going Forward which means they could be dangerous criminals walking about in the streets not being brought to justice. Which means there could be. You say is effectively formalising digital strip searching formalising digital strip searching for people whove been victims of crime. But theres been people exonerated at a late stage because actually, there was evidence on the alleged victim s phone that meant the prosecution wasnt valid. Its really important that relevant evidence is taken from phones. The victims that weve spoken to, they are very keen for police to have releva nt are very keen for police to have relevant evidence and naturally, if police have a relevant line of inquiry that suggests the individual could be lying or not telling the full story they have an obligation to investigate. Thats not really theissue to investigate. Thats not really the issue here, the issue as police are giving themselves a policy and technology that does one thing, it ta kes technology that does one thing, it takes everything. They are giving themselves ten years of data, saying they are going to hold it for 100 yea rs they are going to hold it for 100 years and expecting victims to turn over their private lives for this kind of investigation. Its come as isaid, kind of investigation. Its come as i said, burdening kind of investigation. Its come as isaid, burdening police, and also delaying investigations which only prolongs trauma for both the victim and the suspect. Samuel, as we mentioned, it was cases like yours that led to concerns that evidence sometimes hasnt been disclosed soon enough. Remind us briefly what happened in your situation. In my case an allegation was made and it looked like a very strong case for a long time until right at the last minute, a court order was obtained that forced the complainant who was refusing, who was citing privacy grounds as a reason not to hand over the phone, to do so. And it was turned over there was a sea of information that not only shun a different light on what had been said, but went completely against it and it was that evidence that went on to exonerate me and keep me from facing a miscarriage ofjustice. Do you think that everyone who comes forward with a Rape Allegation should have to hand over their phone at the start of the investigation . I mean, there are some who are concerned that as a sledgehammer to crack a nut and will deter people from coming forward . Absolutely not and there are some cases were clearly the phone will not provide a reasonable line of inquiry. Thats still the case, police can obtain information if it is a reasonable line of inquiry but i would say this whole business, this whole line that has been raised, the length, the date on which the data is being sought from, the level of data, is too much, its technologically nonsense. And the police take a film they download the entirety of it, they download the entirety of it, they can perceive what is relevant until the phone has been downloaded, there isnt a policy being obtained to download a specific data from a specific date or others, they download the phone, thats what they are doing and its the only way to get this evidence that in some cases goes on to prove an allegation to be true or in certain cases, not true. Coffee on twitter says it puts responsibility and effective when theyve already been through so much, theyll be recovering and having small abilities in the right like their phone will help this, if techis like their phone will help this, if tech is required im sure police can ask to see the screen. If it deters people from coming forward to put a Rape Allegation forward and already conviction rates on Rape Allegations are low, do you think, what do you think firstly Rape Convictions are comparable with other offences like burglary and fraud, secondly, what i would say, there are some rape groups like rape crisis england who say they dont think this is a bad idea because it gives victims more information. Now unfortunately, there are some groups and i am sorry to include your other guest amongst this, who are constantly dry to come up this, who are constantly dry to come up with assorted scare stories in order to fundraiser off the back of those and it is these people, with their exaggerated nonsense claims about what sort of data is going to be collected that risk actually putting off real victims. How do you respond . There are some astonishing and unfortunately untrue claims in there. Of course, what we want to do is support victims suspects in securing justice and i think eve ryo ne securing justice and i think everyone would do well to listen to the police is well on this and there are the police is well on this and there a re lots of the police is well on this and there are lots of senior figures from within the police who pointed out that the real issue to taking such a huge amount of data, the delay and the burdens its causing to them, one of the things they are turning to as Artificial Intelligence to sort through the vast amount of data which creates new concerns for us. This is completely experimental, very intrusive and i think, really poses a worrying precedent for how we seek justice poses a worrying precedent for how we seekjustice in the uk. We dont wa nt to we seekjustice in the uk. We dont want to see an environment where victims, witnesses, suspects two, are expected to hand over all of the devices and social media accounts for essentially an Artificial Intelligence character reference. Thank you both. And thank you for your comments at home. Hundreds of american servicemen who died in a World War Two disaster while rehearsing the d day landings, are being remembered in an art installation. Bootprints of 749 troops have been laid out on Slapton Sands in devon, to mark the 75th anniversary of exercise tiger. Artist Martin Barraud hopes the bootprints will help raise money for employment projects for vetera ns. Lets take a look. The last post. They knew something had happened because before they remembered seeing all the ambulances going up the line here. So they knew there was quite a lot of injured. It was a shame that these men did not get recognition through their lives. Prison governors should wear uniform like all other members of staff thats just one of the many recommendations in a new report today from the centre for socialjustice a think tank set up by former tory leader iain duncan smith. The idea is that it puts them on the same level as front line prison officers, allowing them to offer more practical leadership in restoring control and order. The report also recommends that junior prison officers who have been corrupted by inmates should be offered an amnesty, not summarily dismissed or prosecuted. Our Home Affairs Correspondent danny shaw has been taking a closer look at the report. Danny, we will talk about the recommendations in a moment but theyve put out some videos, the centre for socialjustice and they give a bit of a glimpse into what the sort of issues are. Yes, these are videos posted on a twitter account, we cannot independently verify them but they look authentic and the videos that were taken illegally, using mobile phones, band mobile phones from behind bars, although the first clip that we will see is in fact people throwing goods over the perimeter walls of the prison. And this video shows one way in which phones and drugs get into jails. Goods being thrown over a prison wall, you can see the people seem prison wall, you can see the people seem to be enjoying what they are doing and having fun about it. The next video is more disturbing. And what it shows is the reality of violence behind prison bars. We note levels of violence, assaults, are at record levels at the moment, there are 90 assaults every day in prisons in england and wales and what this shows is, it appears to show, a prisoner being forced to read out a confession about his behaviour and hes beaten up by other prisoners. The faces of those involved have been lured for legal reasons. But its a very disturbing video. Have been blurred out. |j its a very disturbing video. Have been blurred out. I was sorry. Andit have been blurred out. I was sorry. And it goes on like that for some time. This isjust and it goes on like that for some time. This is just one of a number of videos in a similar vein. Some of them are really, really disturbing, showing fights, in one case there are two prisoners who we re case there are two prisoners who were naked on the floor, sort of fighting as though they were dogs on the floor with chains around them almost. And really paints the reality of what its like in prison. One of the suggestions as prison officers, prison governors wearing uniforms stop danny, for the moment, thank you, i am going to talk to one of those involved in this discussion. Were nowjoined by rory geoghegan, head of criminaljustice at the centre of social justice. Nick hardwick, formerly her majestys chief inspector of prisons, more recently served as chair of the parole board. The idea prisoners prison governors wearing uniform, what difference would that make . The uniform is 159 recommendations may and essentially its a question of two hands, the first have is how do we better support front line and how do we empower the visible, proactive leadership from the best of prison governors and secondly, theres the issue of resource and Staffing Levels within the prison. And i think, unless we grapple both issues, i think they will struggle to get the control and order back. There is some positive news recently, we may be starting to turn the corner but we mustnt be complacent, violence levels as danny mentioned our way up on what they used to be and it doesnt have be this way. With a uniform worn by a prison governor really make that much of a difference . There is evidence that weve seen, when individuals within uniform service are promoted into those rules where there isnt a uniform the front line perception of the confidence and empathy for their situation diminishes soi empathy for their situation diminishes so i think a relatively quick win, is it when that would help perhaps with leadership would help perhaps with leadership would help with that. Nick, i spoke to many times, you achieve inspector of prisons and reports come frequently painting a terrible picture of whats going on behind bars and still we keep hearing the same sort of thing. That video was very shocking to see, its not the worst of whats come through. Whats your view of what would actually fix things . I think theres a lot in this report that the centre for criminal justice this report that the centre for criminaljustice has produced that is valuable. I think its a priority to restore order and control and thats going to mean taking some quite tough measures that in other circumstances, we might rather avoid but are necessary now. I think we do have to give more support and investment. Front line officers and governors. I think the uniform thing is neither here nor there, whats critical is that we provide the training and support to prison governors, which managed prisons, to actually do the job properly and give them the freedom to do that. Actually do the job properly and give them the freedom to do thatm that coming through, restored, the prisons minister said hes basically got a target of turning things around specifically. Got a target of turning things around specifically i think we are beginning to see, there are some small signs of improvement, they need to be sustained and thats the keyissue, need to be sustained and thats the key issue, we have had flashes in the pan before, things look like they are getting a bit better and thenit they are getting a bit better and then it has evaporated. To fix the prison problem which is, mps have re ce ntly prison problem which is, mps have recently called this an enduring crisis, to fix that, its going to ta ke crisis, to fix that, its going to take a long term, sustained campaign. Rory, the idea of an amnesty for corrupt prison officers, obviously you think theres a need foran obviously you think theres a need for an amnesty because there is a problem but how big is the problem . Firstly we need a refreshed Anti Corruption firstly we need a refreshed anti corru ption strategy, i firstly we need a refreshed Anti Corruption strategy, i think we need to recognise we have put prison officers in difficult situations with understaffing on the wings, drugs, phones and i think particularly with this relatively massive influx of new officers weve seen massive influx of new officers weve seen prisons where the experience levels are tougher it they ought to be andi levels are tougher it they ought to be and i think its critical we offer at least consider, options of how we have read out the corruption. Thank you both so much and thank you for your company today. Bbc newsroom live is next, ill see you soon, have a great day. Good morning. It was a rather misty and murky started the day across the eastern side of the uk but we have some rain across Western Areas, in between, there is some sunshine and at the moment, the scottish borders, cloud starting to lift and clear. Equally, the mist and mark across eastern parts is clearing and there will be sunny spells but for west wales, south west england, the east of northern ireland, continuing with showery outbreaks rain. Maximum around 14 17d but in the highlands, we could see temperatures 18 possibly 19 degrees. Through tonight, low cloud, mist and market tending to move into parts of aberdeenshire, parts of east yorkshire and lincolnshire. Further outbreaks of rain across the Western Areas and temperatures down to about 47d. Areas and temperatures down to about li 7d. Into tuesday, we continue with rain across northern ireland, edging eastwards into western scotland and west wales and the part south west of england, for many of us on tuesday, a dry and bright day, warmer, temperatures potentially reaching 20 degrees in the south east. Goodbye for now. Youre watching bbc newsroom live. Its 11 00am and these are the main stories this morning victims of rape and other crimes are being asked to give Police Access to their phones and social media accounts a man who was falsely accused says its a good idea. If my phone gets taken as a defendant, sue shoots the accuser, just so it is fair. Spains governing socialist party wins the most seats in the general election, but will need to form a coalition after failing to secure a majority. New proposals to fund social care in england could see the over 50s forced to pay more than £300 a year extra in national insurance