and this is munich — a city emblematic of germany's prosperity and small sea conservatism. but right now, german politics looks anything but steady, stable and predictable. angela merkel‘s new grand coalition with the social democrats is very fragile and the biggest opposition party is the far right — alternative fur deutschland. my guest today is the influential md mp, peter boehringer. so how will his party try to exploit the weakness of angela merkel? peter boehringer, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. let's start with a big picture of german politics today. in some ways, nothing much has changed. here we are again, facing a grand coalition led by angela merkel with the christian democrats and the spdt together. but actually, are things really quite different this time? well, we're not even there. we do not have that coalition. but yes, you are right, we will have that pretty soon. having said that, i would agree that it's no longer the same, we have now a coalition of official losers, both the sp0 and the cdu of angela merkel have lost more than 15% at the general election last autumn, and in the meantime, they have lost even more, you could say — they have lost more than 20% of the votes since 2013. it is, of course, a different situation, absolutely. what is your strategy in the md? are you going to be spoilers looking for a fight, or will you try to be constructive? because you now, in essence, are the biggest opposition party. we are. but fight is not an end in its own right, of course. so we're not fighting just for the sake of fighting, we're fighting for bringing germany back on a legal track where laws are not violated all the time, especially when it comes to the euro rescue and the border controls and the immigration. we're also trying to bring back a little more direct democracy, that is that the people have a say in the bundestag again, which they didn't have for a long time. your bedfellows in europe, i guess, are the national front in france, the austrian freedom party, geert wilders‘s party in the netherlands. many people in your country and across this continent are extraordinarily worried about the power and influence you can now wield. actually, we're latecomers. in germany, it is very late that germany has, ultimately, come up with a central right new party, sticking to the values and virtues that were normal in europe up until the 1990s and 2000s. you are not centre—right, you're far right. i have listed your bedfellows, they're all far right, many people would say extremist parties. i would have to look into each and every one of them, and geert wilders is completely different from marine le pen and from the austrian right, that's properly going too far now. in what way are you completely different? the way i see it is that we — and in my personal opinion too, i haven't changed my political opinion in 20, 30, a0 years at all. i only stick to a world where the nation state was the natural state of affairs, where nobody disputed that. no party — we have a programme and i was a member of afd's programme commission that the cdu had up until 2005 and even the spd had in the 1990s. so we are not extremists, that was normal at the time, we did not change, society has changed and especially the media perception of society. i am not talking about media perceptions, i am talking about perceptions of significant people. for example, let me quote one — charlotte knobloch — who is a former president of the council of germanjews. she describes your party, the afd, as a destructive power which endangers democracy. i don't know what crystal ball ms knobloch has, but she cannot see in the future, she has the evidence whatsoever... she isjudging you on the words of your senior party members. well, you can always put individual words out of context, i don't see it in that way. 0ur programme is not radical at all, it's absoutely bourgeois i would say in the positive sense of the word. i suppose we need to test you against words that senior leaders have said. i hope you put it into context, it seems that has not been done. now that your main, biggest opposition, let's see if the tone and style of the party is beginning to change. one of your senior figures — bjorn hocke... he is always quoted, even though he is not a seniorfigure. he is a seniorfigure, in his region. he is one of 16 regionalfigures. yes. there you go. he is quoted all of the time exclusively. maybe then you know what i will ask you — whether you now distance yourself from his comments when he described the holocaust memorial in berlin as a monument of shame and he suggested that germany should not have put it up and no other nation would have put it up. he put it like that and it is a memorial of shame, it's one of the worst periods of german history and... you know what he meant. he meant it was a shame that it had been erected. it was a shame, i don't know what he meant when he said that no other country would put up a memorial for the worst period of their — of its history. i wouldn't have put it in that way, but that's what he meant. the last one on this style — it is important to find out whether that, now that you are the biggest opposition party, that your language is going to change. as a party, i will quote you stephan brandner. he is important because now as an mp he is now going to be the chair of the judicial committee. he referred some time ago to the green party as child molesters and cokeheads. he has been suspended frequently from his regional parliament when he was serving there because of his outrageous behaviour. is it, do you think, wise to put him into a position such as committee chairman of the judicial committee? well, it was not my decision, it was the decision of others, the elder council of the bundestag. they put him in that position. nobody disagreed, not even the lefts and the greens themselves, nobody disagreed, it was only at the election proper, at the initial meeting of that committee that it was disputed for whatever reasons. this is the first time this happened in 60 years in german history, same for me, for no reason at all. we have seen former nazis in the 1950s heading those councils, we have seen former communists from the sed party in the 1990s. nobody was ever disputed and some people who got a few calls in regional parliaments and even me, who did nothing at all basically, were disputed just because we were afd members. this is the treatment afd is receiving all the time. let me put it this way — do you acknowledge that the party is going to have to change and that part of that change is going to be different style, tone and language and maybe some members of the party who were senior figures in the past will not be in the future? yes, i will agree there. but that is normal with every party. yes, we have to become more professional, but, ultimately, you have to understand that the tone and the brutality is only a reaction from our side against the brutality of the ruling class. they break laws all the time, and it is us who give people who are really furious about developments in europe and germany a voice. sometimes, especially if you are not yet in a parliamentary position, which we had been up until, well, 2014, you have to use a little stronger language, all opposition parties have done that in the past. yes, but you can't excuse some of the things said by figures in your party. i don't want to excuse everything. i'm i don't want to excuse everything. alright. well, let's talk a little bit of substance. let's talk about immigration and integration policy in germany today, and let me quote you the words of a very seniorfigure in your party — alexander gauland, who got into an argument very recently with the german commissioner for integration, aydan ozoguz, who has turkish ethnic roots. now, ms ozoguz, had said — and this in a newspaper article — that a specifically german culture beyond the language is not identifiable. to which mr gauland said, "this is what a german turk says, let's invite her to eichsfeld and tell her specifically what german culture is, and afterwards she will never come back, and we will be able to dispose of her in anatolia." well, you would probably — me, as a german, would have to explain what he means because i don't understand. in the translation i get the tone and sense of what he is trying to say. is that acceptable? to dispose of her? i don't even know of the word eichsfeld, is it acceptable that mrs ozoguz — who you must be aware of that — the integration of the government does not percieve or recognise any german culture. how can you integrate into something which does not exist? that's what she started out with and this is a perfect example that our reaction is just, well, i would almost say, adequate. she's from hamburg and fully german. 0bviously, she doesn't feel like hamburgian! as a citizen of hamburg and germany, she has a right to an opinion, doesn't she? she is the integration minister, judge her based on her time in office. your leader is basically suggesting that they will dispose of her in anatolia. a senior figure from cdu said that this language... the german word does not mean to get rid of her somehow. senior figures on the conservative right said the language is disgusting and dehumanising. why won't you say that too? i would say the policy of the coalition government including him, is disgustable and has been disgustable for decades now, so we are reacting and giving those a voice who are disgusted of that policy. i want to talk about economics. really?! 0n the specifics of immigration policy, what we see today is that there has been a very significant number of people coming into germany on those immigration flows from the east. the numbers were extraordinary. we know that many more than 1 million came in that period after 2015, but in the last year, the figures suggest 187,000 came in compared to 280,000 in 2016, far down from the peak in 2015. so it does appear that the policies adopted by ms merkel‘s government in the last year or two have very much reduced the inflow, would you accept that? well, it's a relative comparison. compared with the levels of 2015, which were suicidal to any society. we had abandoned our borders at the time, just imagine. but i'm asking you now, in the current situation, where the government has changed policy and the numbers are down, what would you do that is so very different from the angela merkel government today? if you please do not interrupt me, i could finalise my sentence. she invited everybody in september 2, 2015 by basically officially saying we are abandoning our borders, our police, and the head of the german police wanted that order in writing. it was an executive order, no law was changed. but we officially abandoned our border and this word spread in africa and arabia within minutes. so we would stop that, we would stop that invitation. but it has stopped. no, it has not stopped, absolutely, not even the official number that the government itself admits to is 220,000, not counting families of those refugees. we are talking about more than 500,000 people, illegal immigrants still. this is the current number. whatever numbers you have there are not right and ms merkel has not stopped it. that's the reason why her polls are falling dramatically. so what do you do? you end schengen for a start, do you, the free movement on people within the european union, and do you also put up walls? i'm not clear what the afd would do. it's all about mass psychology. we would not have to do that. we would stop that invitation officially and seriously and we would have to bring back, even by force, a few of those illegal immigrants and even if you only dealt with a couple thousand seriously that word would also spread into africa and into arabia and that mass influx would stop immediately. to what extent is this about muslims in particular? i notice that you have a policy to ban foreign funding in mosques in germany, to ban the burqa, the full—bodied veil. we are not the only ones, i guess. ban the muslims call to prayer in germany, put all imams through very vigorous state vetting. it's fair to say that to many muslim germans, this feels like some sort of war on their religion? well, you could argue who started that war as well? but yes, i would say, statistically, 85% of that immigration is muslims and it is mainly sunni muslims. so you could say it is also an islamic problem in our point of view. but it is not only that. abandoning its borders would even be wrong if only scandinavians came and ended up into germany. it is always a case, always a problem. so, well, what you havejust elaborated or numbered is not totally true. we accept the legal right to private confession of religious freedom, if you want, article four of our constitution. we fully accept that, no one disputes that with the afd. the individual muslims have a right to pray in private and public, but no right to put sharia law ahead of secular law and that is what many muslims are unfortunately are doing, especially muslim groups. you have a background in economics and business. are you comfortable that these days the afd seems to find its strongest support and, indeed, its main raison d'etre in anti—immigration policies rather than the more technocratic anti— eurozone stance that actually the party began with? nobody can really say why people vote for us. at least 50% of the voters still vote for the anti—euro reasons i stand for. that is what i find interesting, whether you are comfortable... fighting against islamisation is a fight against illiberalism. islam and especially the islam of the strong religious people, muslims, is antiliberal, it is against women's rights and human rights. it is a fight for freedom, actually. it does not contradict in any way our fight for freedom that we have against the euro rescue and against the eu in total. you cannot sort this around and say that this is a minor group of our electorate and, well... whatever you call them, nationalists or chauvinists or patriots are the majority of our voters. you now have an important position in the german parliament. you chair the committee on the budget. that gives you real power and influence. how will you use it? it is a moderator‘s role, a symbolic role if you will, to head a committee where i only represent a minority. i will be over voted frequently in almost all budget decisions. you are the chair. you can shape the agenda and have influence. it comes back to my original question about how the afd sees itself today in a fluid political situation. will you push very hard on issues such as future eurozone bailouts and the ambition that germany and france appear to have to go into a much deeper fiscal integration. will you do your utmost to block that? i would love to. but the bulk of money that was taken into the hands of the european union to permanently rescue the euro, every day, with 1—2 billion, that does not appear on our budget. it is not on the official german budget because it is money coming from the european central bank, guarantees spoken or given by the european government, by the german government especially but they are not automatically part of my budget. we are talking sums that exceed these huge budget i am heading. now it is more than 320 billion a year and it does not even appear. this is one of the scandals of this budget because the money comes from europe. it is future tax money from european citizens, especially german ones. i understand that the afd really does not like the way the eurozone works and wishes that the deutschmark could be restored to germany. would you go further? would you want germany to leave the eu? do you look at brexit and think that that is something that we want and need in germany as well? i am sympathetic towards the british who voted for brexit. however, the world did not go under in britain, just because you left or are about to leave. so those doomsday prophecies that the world would go under if britain left did not come true. and i believe they will not come true. having said that... yes. do you think the german public has any interest in leaving the eu? they would if they knew how much money had been spent on the euro rescue. but whether afd existed or not, the euro would have a natural end of life. it is an unnatural currency, and one that has to be rescued every day is no currency. it is a contradiction in terms. it is a crash that will happen, it will happen in any case and if we wait too long with that inescapable decision then the euro can really become a question of war and peace. ijust looked at some opinion polls that showed that you and the afd, having won just short of 13% in the last election, now stand at 15% in the latest national polls. do you see yourself in the long—term becoming, somehow becoming partners of a post— merkel conservative party in germany or do you see yourselves replacing that cdu/csu? that is a question that is being heavily discussed in our party. to date, no—one wants to be in a coalition with us and we do not want to be in a coalition because they follow that supra—nationalistic agenda which we do not accept. they follow a planned central economic policy of the eurozone, which we do not accept and that includes the liberal democrats here in germany. to date we cannot do a coalition. things do change and i think they will change quickly. afd works today from the opposition lines into the government lines and if the leading class of those parties is being replaced, then it will happen quickly. then maybe we have a different situation. these parties will have to become, will have to accept the very idea of the nationstate again, which they have abandoned. 0ur good election results are only the result of us sticking to that idea. ultimately, and we should not forget this, your party scored 12.6% in the last election. i am telling you that your poll standing now may be as high as 15% but that is a very long way from becoming the biggest party in germany. if you are to do that or to really gather political momentum, it seems to me that you may have to consider changing some of your core messages and your style and your tone, particularly on issues concerning immigration, the german muslim community, and reaching out in a way that you have refused and failed to do thus far to show that you are not a racist party. how will you do that? i do not recognise your analysis. we are not racist. that is ridiculous and a false allegation. we are not racist. islam is not a race. so being critics of islam does not make you a racist. that is ridiculous. we have nothing against foreigners, not at all, but we have something against illegal people in our country who have no reason whatsoever. this is true in a strict legal sense for 98% of those who've come since 2015. we need to change a little bit here, and we need to change the tone. we need to be more professional but compared to 2013 when we were, in your words, a not so radical party, we have even gained, while the major parties have lost 20% injust four years. if you repeat that in another four years than we have a majority. we will see what happens then. you really think your party are the future of germany? i am not predicting that but that is what we are working for. thank you very much for being on hardtalk. once again, ijust want to bring you up—to—date with what will happen in the british isles with the weather in the coming day. there will be a transformation for many of us as early as today. a much brighter day for central and western parts compared to monday simply because monday's weather front slowly but surely is easing towards the north sea. but not quite completing the job. that is quite important because that means leaden skies for tuesday. the last of the mild air is trapped by the weather front but is slowly becoming confined to the east. the west, clear skies. tuesday will start fairly cool. parts of wales and northern ireland. a touch of frost if you are very prone. the school run and the morning commute. the weather front going towards the east means brighter skies. here are the details. a speckling of showers, especially over the high ground. wintry across scotland. go that bit further east, anywhere from yorkshire down to the far south—east, you are looking at a fair amount of cloud and the prospect of some rain as well, which could, for some, hang around for most of the day. an onshore breeze on the eastern shores, and with cloud, a lack of sunshine, 7—9. towards the north, where you get some sunshine, temperatures will be pushed up, 10—12. pushed up, 10—11—12 or so. with high pressure building across the lower weather front, we are left with just the residue of cloud keeping temperatures up as we start the new day on wednesday. but either side of that, with clear skies, a touch of frost. that is the shape of things to come as we move to the latter part of the week and indeed on into the weekend. high pressure is trying to build in and starting to connect us to a really cold continent. not looking at the atlantic as on monday and tuesday, but looking towards the continent, and scandinavia. here is wednesday with high pressure close by keeping the atlantic front at bay. there will be sunshine. look at the temperatures. 7—9 after a cool start. nothing more than 12 if you ever even saw that. this is thursday, the tail end of the week. this is the mechanism that eventually draws the cold air towards the british isles. that high pressure. dry, yes, but temperatures are set to drop quite substantially as we get towards the weekend. this is newsday on the bbc. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: enough is enough! as florida students call for tighter arms controls, president trump says he supports efforts to tighten background checks on gun owners. more than 2.5 million newborn babies around the world die before they're a month old, but most of those deaths are preventable. i'm sharanjit leyl in london. also in the programme: a case has been opened against the russian 0lympic medalist alexander krushelnitsy after he failed a doping test. and kfc without the c — the fast—food chain closes hundreds of its restaurants across the uk and ireland after running out of chicken.

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