The former usa team doctor larry nassar. We will get reaction from the gymnasts. From some other gymnasts. Hello. Welcome to the programme, were live until 11am. Throughout the programme well bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories. In the next 15 minutes were going to hear your experiences of the nhs during what some are calling a winter crisis. We had so many of you get in touch last week we wanted to air some more of your stories. Of course feel free to feed in your own expoeriences. Use the hashtag victorialive. If you text, you will be charged at the Standard Network rate. Let us know your positive and negative experiences. You can also get in touch by e mail, facebook or whatsapp. Our top story today. Police in california have rescued 13 brothers and sisters from a house, where some of them were chained to beds. The alarm was raised on sunday, when one girl escaped and alerted the authorities. Their parents have been arrested and charged with torture and child endangerment. 0ur north america correspondent james cook has this report. They look like a big, happy family. The children a little pale, perhaps, but smiling. Photographs on facebook show the turpins visiting disneyland and in las vegas, as their apparently proud parents renewed wedding vows. Now david and Louise Turpin are under arrest, charged with torture and child endangerment. Their children are in hospital. Our staff is used to taking care of people who are quite ill, they are used to compassionate care, and so we pull out all the stops, so to speak, to make sure that their privacy is dealt with, that they get the appropriate care and that they are treated with dignity and respect at a time when they need it the most. The horror on muir woods road was uncovered early on sunday morning when a 17 Year Old Girl escaped with a mobile phone and called the police. At the home, officers found 12 siblings and were shocked to discover that seven were adults the oldest, 29. The captives were dirty and malnourished, say police, shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks in dark and foul smelling surroundings. As reporters arrived at the quiet suburb east of los angeles, neighbours said they were stunned. They were the type that you didnt really get to know anything about them. They were very to themselves, in a sense, clan ish, so they only kept to themselves. And the only time you would see them, you would never see anyone visit, you would never see anyone come outside, all you would really see is that they would go out and maybe make a grocery run and that was about it. There is no hint at all here of the grim conditions inside his home. The questions about what happened are mounting. Not least, how long were the siblings held captive and why. James cook, bbc news, perris, california. John fenoglio is a news correspondent with ktla s in los angeles. He told me how the alarm was raised. Well, this is truly an horrific child abuse investigation. What we know from police is that early sunday morning a young girl called for help. She said she was being held captive, along with her 12 brothers and sisters, and that some of them had been shackled to their beds with padlocks. Responding officers found what they described as a young, emaciated girl, they believed to be about ten years of age, but in fact she was 17 yea rs years of age, but in fact she was 17 years old. She led police back to their home, and what officers described was a hellish scenario. Children chained to their beds, police could not give an adequate description as to why they were chained to their beds. They were arrested. The parents both arrested. The officers say what they discovered with several people chained to their beds in dark and foul smelling conditions. You say this girl appeared to be ten but was in fact 17, she had called for help. Had she escaped from a house . According to a Police Statement she said she was able to escape from the house and take a cell phone with her. That is how she called police and led officers to her home, that is when officers discovered the chilling environment. John fenoglio. More on that story through the morning. Reeta is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the days news. Ministers are trying to limit the damage caused by the collapse of the Construction Services company carillion which went into collapse yesterday with debts of around £1. 5 billion. The firm was involved in a large number of public building projects, including hs2, and holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools, hospitals and prisons. Chris mason reports. 0ne after another, they came from all corners of government. Are taxpayers going to suffer as a result of this . The march of ministers into the Cabinet Office for a cobra contingency meeting spoke to the central truth of the collapse of carillion, the tentacles of this failed business reaching to every part of the Public Sector, in every part of the uk. And they now have to work out what on earth to do next. There is no evidence of chaos. The government is working hard across all whitehall departments to ensure the liquidation of carillion takes place in an orderly manner that does not disrupt Public Services. When did the government first realise. Labour accused ministers of shocking negligence. A government representative managing the relationship between carillion and the Public Sector was rotated off the company last summer. There was no blindspot, insist the conservatives. Labour leaderjeremy corbyn, in a video to supporters on social media, said this was a watershed moment for the outsource first dogma that has fleeced the public. The government insisted what happened with carillion showed a private business shouldering real risk, and that there had been no bailout. It is an insight into the vastly contrasting instincts of the two biggest parties about how so many of our Public Services are delivered. The four time olympic champion gymnast simone biles has said she was sexually abused by the usa team doctor, larry nassar. In a tweet, simone biles described herself as one of many survivors but said she had been reluctant to speak out until now. Larry nassar was jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images of child sexual abuse and is awaiting sentence for assaulting other athletes. An australian teenager has been found alive in the wreckage of his car after his father made an intuitive decision to search them in a helicopter. 17 year old Samuel Lethbridge was trapped for many others. After alerting the police, his father had a helicopter when he recalled a similar local car accident from about five years ago. A bbc investigation has found around 3000 bogus qualifications were bought in britain from the company in pakistan. The Radio Programme file 0n 4 has said that the qualifications included doctors and nurses and a company which trains for helicopter pilots also bought qualifications for some employees. Mps say the manufacturer whirlpool hasnt done enough to deal with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires. The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem, discovered in 2015, had been woeful. Our business correspondent, emma simpson reports. A flat in a tower block in west london engulfed in flames. The smoke rising more than ten stories. The blaze itself damaging five floors. It started in this property, and london fire brigade believe the cause was a faulty tumble dryer made by whirlpool. It has had a problem with defective and potentially dangerous tumble dryers since 2015, when it discovered a defect which could cause them to set fire. Today, mps described whirlpools attempts to fix things are slow and inadequate. Their evidence was woeful. Since 2004 they admit there have been 740 fires in homes caused by these tumble dryers, and yet still today, in 2018, there are a million of these tumble dryers in peoples homes. They need to take much stronger action to get those out of peoples homes. Her Parliamentary Committee has looked into the safety of electrical goods. Among its recommendations, it wants whirlpool to deal with any faulty machines within a fortnight of being by customers. All manufacturers should make risk assessments available as soon as defects are identified. Safer materials to replace plastic backed fridge freezers, which appear to be a significant risk. And it wants the government to actively explore the creation of a Single National product Safety Agency to improve a system which the mps claim is fragmented and under resourced. Whirlpool says it has helped the vast majority of customers who have come forward so far, and promises it will now serve customers problems with faulty machines within a week. The government says britains product safety requirements are among the highest in the world and it has already taken steps to improve the current regime. The controversial claim that the uk sends £350 million a week to the eu has been described as a gross underestimate by the foreign secretary, borisjohnson. In an interview with the guardian newspaper, mrjohnson said britains contribution would rise to almost {a40 million by the end of the post brexit transition period. Vote leaves claim about the uks contribution to the eu was hotly disputed during the eu referendum. The supermarket chain, iceland, has said it will eliminate plastic from its own Brand Products within five years. The retailer said plastic would be replaced with paper which could be recycled. The move has been welcomed by environmental campaigners and comes amid growing concern over plastic pollution in the worlds oceans. New footage has emerged of a car which became embedded in the first floor of an office block in california. Can video from a bus captures the moment the car crosses its path before flying through the air towards the building dashcam video. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news more at 9 30am. Unbelievable images. Thank you. A couple of messages from you on the nhs, a tweaked pics of my introduction when i said some people are calling it a winter crisis. She says some, what planet are you on . In bradford, people have been transported and fire trucks to hospital. Marissa says my father is in hospital, the nhs have been fantastic and helping him. Just a problem the aussie flu has put the hospital in lockdown, we cannot even visit. Kiss, kiss. We willspeak hospital in lockdown, we cannot even visit. Kiss, kiss. We will speak to a british australian patient in a moment about his own experiences, nothing to do with the aussie flu, but his experience of the nhs. We have good and not so good experiences. Lets get some sport now with hugh, who can bring us up to date with the Australian Open and jo konta has been enjoying the heat, hasnt she . Not many people would enjoy the heat she has. She beat american Madison Brengle 6 3, 6 1, ten nudging a0 degrees in melbourne but konta called it a nice, sunny day. She grew up in australia. She enjoys the heat. She reached the Australian Open semifinals in 2016, the quarterfinals last year, both times losing to eventual champion. She is the ninth seed this year, under her new coach, michaeljoyce, she very much enjoyed herself against Madison Brengle. Next up is another american, bernarda pera, who just next up is another american, bernarda pera, whojust ranked next up is another american, bernarda pera, who just ranked 123 in the world. Konta was able to focus despite a blueberry tobacco on a recent shopping trip i went to the supermarket to buy drew brees, i only bought blue breeze, two permits. I left umaga benneteau blooper is there. That is 5i benneteau blooper is there. That is 5 i will not get back, but it is more the betrayal of my own mind that i felt so upset about the blueberries, i was so upset. The first soft fruit fiasco of the year Heather Watson went down to Yulia Putintseva from kazakhstan but now leads 5 a on soma on serve in the first set. That is the latest from the womens side of the game. Johanna konta has just side of the game. Johanna konta hasjust tweeted side of the game. Johanna konta has just tweeted that she has managed to buy two permits of blueberries and bring them back with her. Novak djokovic chin action, what is this about a stray . You would thinkJohanna Konta has the resource to get more blueberries djokovic is seeded 1ath because he missed much of last year with an elbow injury. He beat donald youngin with an elbow injury. He beat donald young in straight sets in no time at all this morning. There were reports he held a meeting with players before the tournament to propose forming a new union to try to get more price money and even suggested boycotting the Australian Open next year to get his way. The prize money is in the single digit percentage rise of the overall revenue of each grand slam, although the figures remain impressive, between 28 and £36 million overall to the players. In melbourne the singles winners both get £2. 3 million. But in the nba, it is 50 of the overall sports turnover, so the players currently represented by the atp, and djokovic is the president of the players cancel, reported to want a little bit more. He wants more of that money to go to players outside of the top 50. Djokovic has responded to reports this morning following his game against donald young, he feels he has been unfairly portrayed. He says there has been no talk of boycotts and that the story has been greatly exaggerated. But with all the talk over the last five to ten years about the prospect of making sure there is equal price money between men and women in tennis, now there seems to be a question being floated by Novak Djokovic at the least that the overall money should be distributed more fairly to all players. This morning how do we get to grips with the enormous pressure the nhs is under this winter and in years to come . Over the past few weeks, weve seen a es over crowded, a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside unable to hand over their patients. On top of that as the nhs approaches its 70th birthday its having to deal with a growing and ageing population adding more pressure to its services. After 10am, were going to discuss different ways the nhs could be funded from charging for Certain Services to raising taxes to make entirely different political decisions, but first we want to hear about your experiences of the nhs. So many of you got in touch last week to tell us your stories we wanted to try and get a snapshot of how hospitals are coping right now. Do get in touch wherever you are this morning. Im going to introduce you to a one year old who has been sitting here so quietly for 15 minutes and his mum lucy is here too. 0ver christmas the baby had a chest infection and had to wait nine hours for a bed and lucy a member of the labour party. Drjohn robinson is with us. His wife is being treated for sepsis in hospital and is in a critical state. Jordan berry is here. He sliced the top off his finger and needed an operation. Ruth just had a knee operation postponed. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Right, can i give him ani the programme. Right, can i give him an i plad. Does that make no difference . It might help. That tells you about my parenting whats that . Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. John, how is mavis . She is more stable than she was. She has been through a traumatic time with sepsis which turned into pneumonia and she got a blood clot in her rightarm, and she got a blood clot in her right arm, but as we speak, the infection is coming under some sort of control, but it there has been setbacks with that and the blood clot drugs have been given so hopefully that will disperse the blood clot in the right arm. You feel that her condition has been exacerbated by the way her case has been dealt with. Lets begin with the arrival of the ambulance on 2nd january. How long did it take . Well, the doctor came to visit at 12 oclock. She booked the ambulance for two having seen some other important patients she had to see. The ambulance never came until nine oclock so we waited seven hours and that was despite ringing up on several occasions to be told after four hours, you know, it should be there. You should be getting near there. You should be getting near the top of the list. In fact, there is no list. 0ther the top of the list. In fact, there is no list. Other people come up, you just drop down. And when she was taken to hospital, did she get a bed . Well, she didnt. We were assured by the gp that she would have a bed waiting for her, that just didnt materialise at all. When did she get a bed . She got a bed at four oclock the next day, so that was after 18 hours in a e. Right. Now, could you see that staff were overstretched at that time . Now, could you see that staff were overstretched at that time . |j now, could you see that staff were overstretched at that time . I think so, yeah. They were absolutely flooded with patients in the Major Incident unit. And the normal a e was seething. There was hundreds of people in there. Hill loining donts hospital nhs trust told us, all our staff are working flat out to minimise the time patients wait to minimise the time patients wait to be seen. The Unprecedented Demand we have experienced in recent weeks left us operating at our full bed capacity resulting in delays to admissions and we deeply regret that patients are having to wait. Do you accept that . Well, i accept that it is not down, you know, the hospital is not down, you know, the hospital is just overload. There is not down, you know, the hospital isjust overload. There have been is not down, you know, the hospital is just overload. There have been so many cuts, having spoken to various people in general practice, there have been cuts across the whole service, the bed blocking thats taking place because the people cannot come out of the wards, where my wife has been admitted to, because. It is really interesting you say that because as you know, nhs budgets in england have been ring fenced since 2010, but there has been cuts to social care which is elderly people in particular going back into the community, £6 billion worth of cuts in that area and it is interesting that you say they were telling you it is because of that bed blocking that it is really exacerbating the problem . Yes. Yes. We are in the situation where i can see in the ward that my wife is in, with 60 people, they are aged people. They are clearly going to have a hell of a job releasing the beds. When my wife went to a e that day, there were 20 beds, people waiting for 20 beds were required and some people waited up to 22 hours. Gosh. Fora and some people waited up to 22 hours. Gosh. For a bed. And some people waited up to 22 hours. Gosh. Fora bed. 0k. Let me bring in jordan. Hours. Gosh. Fora bed. 0k. Let me bring injordan. Hi. Hours. Gosh. Fora bed. 0k. Let me bring in jordan. Hi. Hi. We can see you hurt your finger. Bring in jordan. Hi. Hi. We can see you hurt yourfinger. It bring in jordan. Hi. Hi. We can see you hurt your finger. It was bring in jordan. Hi. Hi. We can see you hurt yourfinger. It was more than that, you actually sliced the top of it, because you dropped a 3a kilogramme dumbbell on it 0uch. Top of it, because you dropped a 3a kilogramme dumbbell on it ouchm hurt a lot. You went to hospital in a cab because you waited over an hourforan ambulance . A cab because you waited over an hour for an ambulance . Around about an hour. It was a busy festive period and you know i knew i could make my way myself to the hospital. So. When you got there, how were you treated . I was treated fa nta stically, you treated . I was treated fantastically, as soon as i got there, i could see it was brimming with people. Being the festive period, but they could see that i was in acute, severe pain and they brought me into a ward straightaway, got me the great care that i needed. I had three staff there in with me, caring for me, and i thought that they were very amicable and very understanding, very caring. Ultimately a really positive experience 0h ultimately a really positive experience oh yeah, worldclass experience. Very, very happy with it. Do you think that when people are critical or feel that the nhs deserves some criticism or the system or whatever bit of the nhs they want to criticise, they shouldnt voice that . |j they want to criticise, they shouldnt voice that . I think that it is ok to voice their experiences. However, i think that its very good to have, you know, a birds eye view on things. I think that its a bit too much kind of generalise and state that the nhs is in a crisis because if you look recently like, you know, with the high waits for ambulance and ambulances because there has been the uncertainty thrown up over brexit, you know, with eu employees leaving the ambulance service. Until all of that is resolved, will we get raet concrete answers on the ambulance service. So i think it is important to wait until thats all resolved and not only that, weve had the flu crisis as well with the australian flu coming on as well and because it is winterand flu coming on as well and because it is winter and there is going to be a higher amount of people within the hospital, we need to take that into view as to why that would increase the amount of people in hospitals at this current time. Lucy, remis was admitted a week before christmas. How was he treated and cared for . The treatment was amazing. It was just the wait time for him to get a bed that was really difficult because we were receiving treatment in the waiting room prior to getting the bed, but i couldnt fault the staff at all. You could see the strain they were under. How long did it take . We got admitted to hospital, well we got referred by the gp, we got to hospital at two oclock and we didnt get a bed until about half past nine at night and throughout that time he was receiving treatment in the waiting iooiti receiving treatment in the waiting room in, in a public waiting room. Where there other patients being treated in the waiting room at the same time . Assessments, to see if they were going to be admitted or to go home. Yeah, lots of other patients. Clearly, you saw staff under pressure. Yeah. Did you ever feel it affected the way they did theirjob . No, i think feel it affected the way they did theirjob . No, ithink they feel it affected the way they did theirjob . No, i think they remained professional throughout. There is no doubt in my mind. How is he now . Hes so much better now. Hes poorly on and off since september, but with new medication that he has had, well you can see he is fine now. And your hospital in cornwall say they are sorry for any delay and subsequent admissions to a hospital ward, our staff have been making heroic effo rts staff have been making heroic efforts to meet the demand for our services and to provide good, safe care. Services and to provide good, safe ca re. Let services and to provide good, safe care. Let me bring in ruth who is in staffordshire, hello ruth, you run a printing business and you have rheumatoid arthritis, you have had it since you were a child and you we re it since you were a child and you were due to have a knee operation and what happened to the operation . Well, it was cancelled just yesterday morning actually. I had assumed when i heard the news about january operations being cancelled that maybe, you know, i would be one of them, but i didnt hear, you know from the hospital until yesterday. And the operation, i think, was due thursday, wasnt it . Yes. So news of the cancellation, what impact does that have on you and you trying to go about your daily life, which involves two children and running your own business . Well, it is difficult for me because partly i have to come off some of my medicines in order to be able to have the operation because i have an over active immune system, i have to be on immune suppressing drugs and some have to be stopped for weeks before the operation. So i put myself into quite a flair up of the disease by coming off the meds. So its and also have lined up a lot of help and support for me whilst i was in hospital to look after my children and pick them up from school and look after my dog and all that sort of thing. Yeah, it is disruptive, but it is disappointing. The hospital says they would like to alpoll jaous, but say that all operations will resume at the beginning of february which. meani beginning of february which. mean ijust beginning of february which. mean i just want to say, beginning of february which. mean ijust want to say, i dont think it is the hospitals fault at all. They made this clear they were under orders and they were following the orders that they had been given. So, you know, the surgeon and the nurses have been wonderful to me there. Im going to try and read some messages. You can have a look as well remis. There are various experiences. Now it has frozen. Im sorry. It is not your fault. The computer says it has frozen. Im sorry. It is not yourfault. The computer says no. I will read them later. Thank you very much all of tu for coming on the programme. Thank you, remis. Thank you very much. After 10am, we are going to talk about different funding suggestions for the nhs. We heard from a conservative mp that might include re branding and redirecting National Insurance so it becomes National Health insurance. It might be down to different political decisions. It might be about charging for Certain Services. If you have views on that, if you have proposals, suggestions, let me know because were going to talk about other solutions after 10am when it comes to the funding crisis. An alleged victim of the football coach Barry Bennell has told a court that he was repeatedly abused on visits to butlins in north wales and on trips to spain. 0ur reporterjon donnison has been following the trial at Liverpool Crown court. Fill us injohn from fill us in john from yesterday. This is the trial of 6a year old Barry Bennell. He is known as richard jones. Weve got pictures of him, drawings appearing in Liverpool Crown court by videolink because of ill health yesterday. The court heard from an alleged victim who said he was abused after being spotted playing for alschool football team. Mr bennell denies four counts of bug riaz the offence was then called against this man who would have been a teenager at the time of the alleged abuse. Yesterday, the man gave evidence anonymously from behind a screen. He was asked about the final time he was asked about the final time he was allegedly abused. He said he felt the lowest i have ever felt in my life. I was a biggish, felt the lowest i have ever felt in my life. Iwas a biggish, strongish 1a year old lad and ifelt like i had been raped. And there were allegations Barry Bennell then contact that had player yea rs bennell then contact that had player years later . Yes, this was in twinl. He says mr bennell sent him a facebook message or he believes he did, although using an account under a different name. He tved that the message said, good to see you have afamily and message said, good to see you have a family and are enjoying life. I got cancer a while back and it left me in got cancer a while back and it left meina got cancer a while back and it left me in a mess. Pay back i hear youre saying, well, i understand that if you could find time, could you drop mea line you could find time, could you drop me a line saying how your life is going . The complainant said he didnt reply to that message of the he was then asked under cross examination about £2,000 in compensation, he was awarded after mr bennell pleaded guilty to offences in 1998. Asked if he felt aggrieved about that amount, he said i have felt aggrieved for years. £2,000, it makes no difference. The court heard the same man made a statement in 199a in which he accused mr bennell of attempted buggery. He was asked why he did not allege the more serious offence of buggery, he said, i wasnt Strong Enough and i wasnt brave enough. Mr bennell is on trial for a total of a8 charges against 11 boys and he denies the charges and the trial continues. Thank you very much, john, we will bring you up to date with the trial every morning at around this time on this programme. Still to come. A bbc investigation has found a multiMillion Pound diploma mill in pakistan which is churning out fake degrees. Uk nations are buying them up in their thousands, we speak to someone whose job is to check if degrees are genuine or not. Uk uk nationals are buying them up in their thousands. Four times olympic champion simone biles has revealed that she was sexually abused by larry nassar the gymnastics doctorfor team usa. Well be talking to a former gymnast later in the programme. Time for the latest news. Heres reeta. Thirteen brothers and sisters between the ages of two and 29 have been discovered in a malnourished and dirty state at their home in california. Their parents have been charged with torture and child endangerment. Some of the children had been chained to their beds. The alarm was raised on sunday, when one girl escaped and alerted the authorities. The four time olympic champion gymnast simone biles has said she was sexually abused by the usa team doctor, larry nassar. In a tweet, simone biles described herself as one of many survivors but said she had been reluctant to speak out until now. Larry nassar was jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images of child sexual abuse and is awaiting sentence for assaulting other athletes. The future of some Major Construction projects and hundreds of Public Service contracts hang in the balance this morning after the collapse of carillion. Britains second Largest Construction Firm which also holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools, hospitals and prisons went into liquidation yesterday with debts of around mps say the manufacturer whirlpool hasnt done enough to deal with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires. The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem, discovered in 2015, had been woeful. It also said that it was unacceptable that more than one million potentially dangerous dryers were still being used in peoples homes. The company insists its repair campaign has been successful. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news. News just newsjust in, the news just in, the latest inflation figures, the rate of Consumer Prices index inflation fell to 3 in december, from 3. 1 in november. That just in from december, from 3. 1 in november. Thatjust in from the office of national statistics, inflation has fallen slightly from 3 of. Sorry, from 3. 1 in november to 3 in december. I now have some of your comments about the situation in the nhs. Lots of you say there are times in many people in a e that only to be there. Hallett says i have been to St Georges Hospital in tooting, that a e twice in the last three months. I was triage, blood tested and scanned within 2. 25 hours. I got the impression that half the patients there did not need to be there. Katy dunne to it as it is time the many goods a e because they cant get gp appointments. James says granddaughter broke her arm over christmas. She got fast and first class treatment from the hospital. But whilst on the waiting area a man and his partner were swearing at staff because others were seen before him. He was boasting how he had beaten a guide the night before and had cuts to his knuckles as a result. Most people would have sold their hands and anti septic and anti septic address this at home. Some doctors have got in touch. Aussie flu is causing havoc with primary Care Services in hospital attendances, says doctor singh. It is not too later the flu jab, were running specialflu is not too later the flu jab, were running special flu vaccination clinics, please remind people. Dan says i am a doctor in the nhs, please correct anyone who says it is free. It is not. The paper it through taxation, which is the most efficient way of Funding Health care. The problem is not how we are funding the nhs, but how much we have cut, 1a,000 beds in 2010. We will talk about different ways of funding the nhs in a sustainable way, that is the issue. After 10am, your proposals are very welcome. Now the sport. Johanna konta is through to the second round of the Australian Open. Shes the ninth seed in melbourne this year and beat Madison Brengle in straight sets in temperatures approaching a0 degrees. She had no problems with that, having grown up in australia. A similar story for Novak Djokovic. He had an easy win over donald young. Djokovic is only seeded 1ath in melbourne after missing the second half of last year with an elbow injury. Manchester united have reduced Manchester Citys lead at the top of the premier league to 12 points after beating stoke last night. They won 3 0 at old trafford with new stoke boss paul lambert watching from the stands. Anthony martial micro 2 macro others scored. Anthony martial and two others scored. United could have a major signing in the next few days too. Manchester city have ended their interest in alexis sanchez. So united and now we understand chelsea too are battling to sign the chilean from arsenal. Much more coming upjust after 10am. Thousands of uk nationals have bought fake degrees from a multi Million Pound diploma mill in pakistan, a bbc investigation has found. Buyers include nhs consultants, nurses and a large defence contractor. One british buyer spent almost £500,000 on bogus documents. The claims are being made in bbc radio as file on four programme reporter simon cox can tell us more. Tell us what you have discovered. 3000 fake degrees had been bought by people in britain. They came from a Company Called exact, based in pakistan. They are notjust fluffing up pakistan. They are notjust fluffing up people see these, they are doctors working in the nhs, nurses, lawyers, psychologists. The interesting thing is knowing did they use them to get theirjob . They are they use them to get theirjob . They a re lots of they use them to get theirjob . They are lots of their professional profiles, if they use them to get theirjob they could be breaking the law and they could be prosecuted for fraud. You manage to buy one . fraud. You manage to buy one . I went online, there are hundreds of these. They look pretty legitimate when you at them, they tend to claim they are us universities. You go online, i was going for a degree in business management, which i know nothing about and management, which i know nothing aboutand in management, which i know nothing about and in ten minutes i could have bought it for 2500. I could have bought it for 2500. I could have got a masters or phd if i wanted. They even show you what the degree would look like when they send it to you. I have a load printed out. This is williamsburg university, i dont know if you can see. The board of trustees, accordance with the recommendation of the faculty coming confers upon, insert your own name, the degree, bachelor of laws, upper second class. Im a bit of rubbishy paper with the rubbish printed it does not look amazing, but you could make it look amazing, but you could make it look amazing. On a bit of rubbishy paper. They will send you extra courses, they will show you the courses you are meant to have taken. They were very blatant about it. Some people got back in touch and said you are not a university, you do not exist, and they tried to bluff it. They said they were in america, one said washington, the other california. Even when you confront them they try to maintain this fiction that they are a real university. One company, having sold a fraudulent degree, tried to blackmail the buyer of aforementioned fake degree . This company, exact, sold over 200,000 of these globally. They thought they had a great database of people who they thought they could blackmail. They did this with lots of people. We looked at one case of a guy called cecil horner who works in saudi arabia for 20 years, died in 2015, we spoke to his son malcolm. He was going to his de plus my papers, found his dad had bought some fake degrees but also he had been blackmailed he went through his dad plus my papers. It became clear it wasjust acquiring qualifications, it was then chasing him up, having done that, to essentially blackmail him, saying you have got degrees that are not official, we will report you to the foreign office, they will kick you out of the country, you will lose yourjob, you are not qualified to yourjob. And that. And that clearly gotten scared and very wound up. What is interesting about his case, he is the person that you mention, almost £500,000. One person per payment, then he paid almost £500,000 to this company or the four yea rs. £500,000 to this company or the four years. A £1000 payment, then he paid almost £500,000 to this company. And that programme is on at apm tonight. At 8pm. We can speak now to jayne rowley, who is from Higher Education degree datacheck the uk organisation which checks whether degrees are valid or not. And to david dsouza from the chartered institute of personnel and development, which is the professional body for people working in hr for employers across the uk. Thank you both forjoining us. Jayne, how do you react to what simon cox has discovered . jayne, how do you react to what simon cox has discovered . I am not shocked at all. We have been aware of the problem for quite some time. Iam of the problem for quite some time. I am saddened that people are being blackmailed, there are innocent victims, but it stems from the fact that employees do not make proper checks, so people can get away with fa ke checks, so people can get away with fake certificates, fake universities thrive. Let me bring in david, from the chartered institute of personnel and development. Employers do not make proper checks . Largescale employers like the nhs make proper checks. Tend to i cannot vouch for every employer but i think the nhs will make scrupulous checks. There is a difference between employers expressing a preference for a degree and not checking, and professions that really require professional qualifications. They will be thoroughly checked. In terms of your organisation, jayne, how do you help employers spot potential fake qualifications onjob employers spot potential fake qualifications on job applications . Sometimes it is very difficult. You can look out for use of language, spelling and grammar, but the only certain way to chequers to contact the universities directly, they have the universities directly, they have the qualifications in their database. That the qualifications in their data base. That can the qualifications in their database. That can be done quickly easily directly with the universities, or through head. Easily directly with the universities, orthrough head. Some of the fake certificates look really good and lots of employers are fools. What is your advice . About lots of employers are fooled. They need to check qualifications, and throughout the interview process they need to check they are doing things the relief. It should never bea things the relief. It should never be a surprise that somebody does not have a qualification. They could really scrutinise whether people actually needs a degree to do the job. One of the things we are proliferating in the uk is that people put down we would like people to have a degree as a preference, which makes it harder for people to move and encourages people to go to fa ke move and encourages people to go to fake universities. Does it . Why . Just because an employer requires something does not mean you have to life. But if yourjob does not require degree standard qualifications and you put it anyway, it is frustrating to candidates to feel locked out of an opportunity that they have the experience to deliver, they might have an apprenticeship in or a suitable background. So do you have some sympathy with applicants who buy fake degrees because a Job Description requires that . I dont think i have sympathy, you should never lie in those circumstances, but it is a tough economy and employers are not thinking about how they can be more inclusive. It invites people to take short cuts. Is that a fair point, jayne, people are encouraged to take short cuts because employers do not think very hard about whether a job requires a degree . It can be difficult when people feel they have the skills, but at the point which you put something down on a cv or job application which is not true, an employer has to question himself about that persons integrity. Do you want somebody in your organisation who has lied to get in . Employers need to think about the skill sets required and the qualifications, but applicants should not lie about. Thank you, jayne and david. File on a degrees of deception is on bbc radio a tonight at 8pm cunningham, the tuc is calling on the government to come up with a task force the collapse of carillion. Coming up, the tuc is. Four time olympic champion simone biles says she was sexually abused by former team usa gymnastics sports doctor larry nassar. Many of you will remember simone biles from the rio olympics she wowed everyone with her amazing performances and was dubbed untouchable and the greatest gymnast anyone had ever seen. Now in an emotional statement she says that she too was one of those abused by nassar but that she would not let him steal her love and joy. Nassar was jailed for 60 years for possessing child sex abuse images and has also admitted assaulting gymnasts. This is simone biles full statement most of you know me as a happy, giggly and energetic girl, but lately i have felt a bit broken, and the more i try to shut off the voice in my head, the loaded screens. I am not afraid to tell my story any more. I too and one of the many survivors is that was sexually abuse by larry nassar. Please believe me when i say it was a lot harder to first speak those words out loud than it is now to put them on paper. There are many reasons that i have been reluctant to share my story, but i now know it is not my fault. It is not normal to receive any type of treatment from a trusted Team Physician and refer to it horrifyingly as the special treatment. This behaviour is com pletely treatment. This behaviour is completely unacceptable, disgusting and abusive. Especially coming from someone whom i and abusive. Especially coming from someone whom i was and abusive. Especially coming from someone whom i was told to trust. For too long i have asked myself, was i too naive, wasnt my fault . I now know the answer to those questions. No. No, it was not my fault. No, i will not and should not carry the guilt belongs to larry nassar, usa g and others. It is impossible for me. It is impossibly difficult to relive these experience and it breaks my heart more to think that as i worked towards my g mosse working towards tokyo 2020, i will have to return to the same training of facility where it abused. After hearing the break stories of my friends and other survivors, i know that this horrific experience does not define me. I am much more than this. I am unique, smart, talented, motivated and passionate. I have promised myself that my story will be much greater than this, and i promise all of you that i will never give up. I will compete with all of my heart and soul every time i step into the gym. I love this board too much and i have never been a quitter. I wont let one man and the others that enabled him to steal my love and joy. We need to know why this was able to take place for so long and to so many of us. We need to make sure Something Like this never happens again. As i continue to work through the pain, i kindly ask everyone to respect my privacy. This is a process, and one that i need more time to work through. Kiss, hug, simone biles. Larry nassar was involved with the us Gymnastics Programme from the 19805 untiljuly 2015, when the Sports National governing body sacked him. As well as simone biles, three otherformer us olympians have accused him of sexual abuse under the guise of medical treatment, and more than 130 women have filed civil lawsuits against him alleging abuse. One of those olympic gymnasts is aly raisman, who spoke about the abuse to american tv. Why are we looking at why didnt the girls speak up . Why not look at what about the culture . What did us gymnastics do and larry nassar do to manipulate these girls so much that they are so afraid to speak up . Youre angry . I am angry. Im really upset because it has been, i dare a lot, you know, when i see these young girls that come up to me and they ask for pictures or autographs or whatever it is, every time i look at them, every time i see them smiling, ijust think, ijust want to create change so that they never ever have to go that. We can speak now to craig heap a former Commonwealth Games gold medal winning gymnast, who also went to sydney olympics and has gone on to coach and commentate. Hes also just about to set up own gym. And to martha kelner, a journalist, whos investigated a british gymnastics coach over claims of child neglect and physical and Emotional Abuse. Thank you for talking to us. Craig heap, how do you react to what simone biles has told the world . Well, ive just listened to the statement again and i just feel physically sick to believe that, you know, Something Like this system of abuse has gone on for so long and no action has been taken and it does, it sends a shiver down your spine. I certainly think in about the new business im going into, hopefully set upa business im going into, hopefully set up a new gymnastic academy, it isa set up a new gymnastic academy, it is a beautiful sport which has been tarnished by the actions, not only by larry nassar, but it seems like a host of people that have covered it up host of people that have covered it up and its a time now where action needs to be taken. There is questions that need to be answered and people need to be punished for whats gone on. Yes. Martha, craig says that it seems other people have covered it up and from simone biles statement she said she was told to trust this man. I mean, that isjust shocking, isnt it . I think trust this man. I mean, that isjust shocking, isnt it . Ithink thats what makes this case so serious and so horrifying really. Its the abuse of that power. Its a man who these young women put their trust in and he, you know, he took advantage of that in the worst possible way and i think you can really hear the anger both in simone biles written statement, but also ali raisman, she is seething. It is quite clear she is seething. It is quite clear she is very angry at the treatment that she received from usa gymnastics and there probably has to be a look at there probably has to be a look at the whistle blowing and there probably has to be a look at the whistle blowing and the procedures within that organisation because those young women felt like they couldnt speak up. because those young women felt like they couldnt speak up. I wonder if it is something unique to gymnastics in this respect in that you can reach an elite level at such a young age in gymnastics, cant you . M reach an elite level at such a young age in gymnastics, cant you . It is an early specialised sport and thats one of the problems is because you have young people involved in physical activity, and u nfortu nately involved in physical activity, and unfortunately the world we live in, this area is where these people will target groups to get involved. I think the biggest shock to me is that this guy has been involved since the 1980s. The gymnasts have felt that they cant speak out. There has been maybe some sort of cover up. And at what point do you go thats acceptable, enough is enough. They have had success and maybe in the past, the gymnasts have said to the coaches, im not happy about this sort of treatment. Maybe the coaches have said, well, you know, some of these things, you just have to put up with because of the coaches desire to be successful. I think the whole system really needs looking at and the coaches of these gymnasts, you know, if the gymnasts have said this tomb, im being abused. What have the coaches done about it . I have had a fantastic relationship with all my coaches and i have been lucky enough to have beenin i have been lucky enough to have been ina i have been lucky enough to have been in a system where i have not seen any of this abuse, but i felt that i had a Strong Enough relationship with my coach he would have definitely done something about it. So there are lots of questions not only for usa gymness aks, but for the coaches of these gymnasts if they have raised their concerns. Martha, in this country, as far as i am aware, at the top level of gymnasts there have been no claims of sexual abuse, but from your investigations there has been claims of physical abuse and allegations of Emotional Abuse. Remind our audience about those . Yeah, i think it is key to say that there is not been any allegations of that seriousness, but i think you can also under estimate how much of a toll physical and particularly Emotional Abuse takes and there have been numerous allegations in recent years about Emotional Abuse and there was a Police Investigation last year into a coach who was abused of emotionally abusing female athletes within their care. Emotionally abusing female athletes within theircare. So, emotionally abusing female athletes within their care. So, we do have to be vigilant of those cases and i think craig and yourself mentioned there about how young an age you do become an elite gymness and female gymnasts can go to the olympics aged 16 and for male gymnasts it is 18. Sol 16 and for male gymnasts it is 18. So i wonder whether maybe female gymnasts are more vulnerable to abuse if there is more of a chance of them being exploited in that way. 0k. I wonder craig, i 0k. Iwonder craig, i mean 0k. I wonder craig, i mean you 0k. Iwonder craig, i mean you heard in simone biles statement that she is going to have to go back to this Training Facility to preparing for tokyo 2020, the very facility where she says the sexual abuse happened. Imean, i she says the sexual abuse happened. I mean, i think thats ridiculous. If usa gymnastics are talking about change and moving forward, the first thing they need to do is build a new National Centre away from this. Yes, you know, its not cheap to build a gymnastics centre, but youre talking about, you know, victims that have gone through serious abuse, returning to that scene. It is just the most ludicrous thing that ive ever heard of within sport. It certainly wont happen anywhere else so they really need to look at that and say we are totally supportive in my mind by returning to the camp its almost saying well, we just want to forget about it. You cant forget about this. Over 130 victims, you know, at the hands of this nasty, horrible man within that centre so, they really need to look at changing the venue for certain. Thank you very much, craig heap, thank you for coming on the programme and martha, journalist from the guardian. British gymnastics deny any claims about a culture of fear. The government has promised its top priority will be maintaining vital Public Services, after carillion was put into liquidation. Our reporter andy moore has more details on this story now. Whats the latest today, andy . The question is about the tens of thousands of companies that are subject contractors for carillion, people working in hospitals, prisons and schools, they will be paid about the government, what about the private subcrat rs. They have been saying that carillion wasnt a good payerin saying that carillion wasnt a good payer in the past anyway, a lot have outstanding debt and now it looks as if many of them wont be paid for the contracts that are up coming. And there is evidence from the past that when there is a big collapse like this, many of the small subcontractors wont survive. There is evidence from the past, 17 , 18 of them wont survive after five yea rs, of them wont survive after five yea rs , we of them wont survive after five yea rs, we have of them wont survive after five years, we have heard from one company saying it has an impact, possible Financial Impact of £1. 6 million and it has warned its shareholders about the adverse Financial Impact. And questions continue to be asked about president government giving carillion contracts after a profits warning and after the chief executive departed last summer and about why that former chief executive is being paid a very large salary until october this year . Thats right. The former chief executive was paid £1. 6 million. He is going to be paid £600,000 as you say, until october this year. So a lot of questions being asked about that. The liberal democrat leader, sir vince cable, said it was a reward for failure. David lidington from the government said the whole situation would be looked at and there could be a financial penalty if misconduct was proved. Thank you very much, andy, thank you. We will bring you the latest news and sport in the next couple of minutes. Before that, here is the weather and carol, what is going on, its getting colder. Ifi its getting colder. If i show you some of our weather watcher pictures you can see where we have had the snow. A beautiful picture from the highlands and weve got another one too, this is north yorkshire. Some lying snow here and finally, well, we have got some more snow too across county antrim. So it is Northern England and Northern Ireland and scotland seeing the lions share of the snow fall. Even down to sea level. Elsewhere, today, we are looking at showers. Some of those across wales and Central England will be wintry through the afternoon in the heavier showers, but generally there will be rain with hail and that will be the case as we push further south. It is a brisk wind. And also driving the showers. So, with height across Northern Ireland, scotland and Northern England, well we are looking at drifting and also potentially blizzard conditions. But at lower levels you can see the snow showers. They will be blowing around in the wind. For Northern England further snow showers to come your way, but they are showers so not all of us are seeing them. For wales, most of the showers will be rain or hail at lower levels, but in some of the heavier ones we could see snow at lower levels too. Gusty winds whipping up large waves across south west england. That will be the case for the next few days and again, we are looking at the wintry flavour on the moors for example, largely with height. But for much of the midlands, east anglia and the south east, it should stay dry. If you see a shower, it is more likely to be of rain. The temperatures today will be two to seven celsius. Add on the strength of the wind, its going to feel sub zero for many parts of the uk. Through this evening and overnight, we continue with the snow showers. A good flurry of them crossing from the west towards the east being driven in on the wind. There will be the risk of ice on untreated surfaces and its going to be a cold night. These are the temperatures you can expect in towns and cities. So we start tomorrow on this note. Still a lot of snow showers. Some of them fading as we go through the day. The wind will ease for a time, but it wont last and we will see a lot of dry weather and more sunshine than were expecting today, but the next system is waiting in the wings. Now this is an area of low pressure thats forming off the coast of the united states. It will deepen as it moves across the atlantic and this is the track we think its going to take, but this track could change slightly. So as it comes in across the k, it will bring heavy rain. Some snow across Northern Ireland, north wales, Northern England, southern and eastern parts of scotland. That could be disruptive snow. We expect it to be quite heavy. If you look at the isobars, they are squeeze the tightly, we are looking at gales across north wales, parts of Northern England, heading down through parts of the midlands and norfolk. That will rattle through quickly during the course of thursday morning. Leaving behind it still a windy day, just not as windy, wherever you are, with temperatures between three and around nine celsius. R hello its tuesday, its 10 oclock, im victoria derbyshire. Our top story this morning 13 brothers and sisters have been rescued from a house in california, some of them had been chained to their beds. Their parents have been charged with torture. Here were some kids from 29 to two, held captive and malnourished. Its heartbreaking. The siblings were rescued after one girl managed to escape and raise the alarm. Well bring you the full story this morning. A marie stopes clinic in london could become the first to be surrounded by a special protection zone, to shield women from anti abortion protesters holding vigils outside. We can see the women being addressed as , we can see the women being addressed as mum on the way out and saying youed shouldnt have killed your child, you shouldnt have murdered your child. Well be speaking to a nurse from the clinic about the impact on patietns of those protests and if you were in charge of the nhs, what would you do to sort out the printer pressures, to sort out the printer pressures, to sort out the lack of beds, and queues with ambulances. Your views are welcome in the next hour. Good morning. Heres reeta in the bbc newsroom with a summary of todays news. Police in california have rescued 13 siblings from a house, where some of them were shackled to their beds. The alarm was raised on sunday, when one girl escaped and alerted the authorities. Their parents have been arrested and charged with torture and child endangerment. Our north america correspondent james cook has this report. They look like a big, happy family. The children a little pale, perhaps, but smiling. Photographs on facebook show the turpins visiting disneyland and in las vegas, as their apparently proud parents renewed wedding vows. Now david and Louise Turpin are under arrest, charged with torture and child endangerment. Their children in hospital. Our staff is used to taking care of people who are quite ill, they are used to compassionate care, and so we pull out all the stops, so to speak, to make sure that their privacy is dealt with, that they get appropriate care and that they are treated with dignity and respect at a time when they need it the most. The horror on muir woods road was uncovered early on sunday morning when a 17 Year Old Girl escaped with a mobile phone and called the police. At the home, officers found 12 siblings and were shocked to discover that seven were adults the oldest, 29. The captives were dirty and malnourished, say police, shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks in dark and foul smelling surroundings. As the reporters arrived in the quite suburb in los angeles, neighbours were stunned. They coat to themselves. They kept to themselves, in a sense, clan ish, so they only kept to themselves. And the only time you would see them, you would never see anyone visit, you would never see anyone come outside, all you would really see is that they would go out and maybe make a grocery run and that was about it. There is no hint at all here of the grim conditions inside this home. The questions about what happened are mounting. Not least, how long were the siblings held captive and why. James cook, bbc news, perris, california. The future of some Major Construction projects and hundreds of Public Service contracts hang in the balance this morning, after the colla pse the balance this morning, after the collapse of carillion. Britains second Largest Construction Firm, which also holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools, hospitals and prisons, went into liquidation yesterday, with debts of around £1. 5 billion. The four time olympic gymnastcy moan biles has said she has been abused. She said she has been reluctant to speak out until now. Larry na serbs r was jailed last month speak out until now. Larry na serbs rwas jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images of child sexual abuse and is awaiting sentence for assaulting other athletes. Inflation eased slightly from its six year high in december. The Consumer Prices index slipped to an annual rate of 3 down from 3. 1 in november. Across the eurozone, inflation stood atjust1. A . New footage has emerged of a car that became embedded on the first floor of an office block inical foreignia. Video from a bus captures the moment the car crosses its path before flying through the air towards the building. The driver and passenger escaped with minor injuries. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news. More at 10. 30am. We have a text from somebody who is in hospital right now. They dont leave their name, the staff are mazing and my experience is positive but it is clear the nurses, doctors ands fa its are being overworked. Its not sustainable. Im sick of conservative politicians taking any credit for our fabulous nhs, when theyve presided over such inadequate funding. And this text pa rt of inadequate funding. And this text part of the problem is river friday and saturday night, without fail, the a e is full of the same idiots taking up valuable resources repeat or second thoird offenders should incura or second thoird offenders should incur a £50 charge. It wont fix the problem but it would happen, not least the savings, if two security staff helping with this unwanted disruption. And this on twitter. Two ladies at my loikal gp, with snotty noses after free calpol. Why . You can see why gps are swamped. Get in touch your experiences, both positive and injury which is from the nhs this winter. Use victorialive. If you text, you will be charged at the Standard Network rate. Heres some sport now with hugh. British number one Johanna Konta is through to the second round of the Australian Open. Her win over Madison Brengle took place in temperatures of almost a0 degrees. Although konta said she really enjoyed the heat in melbourne and tried to absorb the atmosphere in the arena and she certainly looked comfortable out there, dropping only four games in a match that lasted a little over an hour and afterwards she seemed more concerned with what shes called the blueberry debacle. I went to the supermarket to buy blueberries. I only bought blueberries. I only bought blueberries. Two pun ets. I left two pun ets tlchl it is 5 i will not get back but it is the betrayal of my own mind ifeel so get back but it is the betrayal of my own mind i feel so upset about. I was so sad. Breaking news, this morning, it is ok, she has more blueberries, since. Britains other player in the womens draw, Heather Watson, is a set down in her match against Yulia Putintseva. She fought back, going a break up in the second set, but shes just been broken herself. She now leads a 3 with putintseva serving. Defending champion Roger Federer had a fairly straight forward passage into the second round. He beat the former british player alljaz bedene in straight sets. The six times champion Novak Djokovic has been back in action for the First Time Since wimbledon and he came through with ease, only dropping serve once, in beating donald young. Djokovic is seeded 1ath, after missing the second half of 2017 with an elbow injury. Manchester uniteds paul pogba says they still have Manchester City in their sights after reducing the leaders advantage at the top of the premier league to 12 points. Pogba inspired united to a 3 0 win against stoke, setting up two goals, including this one for anthony martial. New stoke manager paul lambert was watching from the stands. His opposite numberjose mourinho insists united arent giving up on the title race yet. We know that the distance is a very important distance. I have been there before and you can control your distiny when you play relaxed and when you play relaxed the best qualities are company coming. I think they have their destiny in their hands. We want to win matches and finish the best we can. Mourinho and Manchester United are a lot closer to making a major signing. Manchester city have pulled out of the race for arsenals alexis sanchez. Its understood the wages being demanded by sanchez would have made him the top earner at the etihad, something that Pep Guardiola and the clubs hierarchy were not willing to do. Manchester united and chelsea are rumoured to be interested in the chilean. England cricketer ben stokes says hes keen to clear his name in court after he was charged with affray. It relates to an incident outside a bristol nightclub in september. Stokes missed the ashes series and the selectors will be meeting over the next couple of days to discuss his future. Hes been charged along with two other men. Thats all the sport for now. Headlinesjust thats all the sport for now. Headlines just after 10. 30am. 13 siblings ranging in age from two to 29 have been rescued by police in california from a house where some of them had been chained to beds. They were found in a house in a residential neighbourhood near la after one of the children escaped with a mobile phone shed found and managed to call the police. John fenoglio is a news correspondent with ktla 5 in los angeles. He told me how the alarm was raised. This is truly an horrific child abuse investigation. What we know from police is that early sunday morning a young girl called for help. She said she was being held captive, along with her 12 brothers and sisters, and that some of them had been shackled to their beds with padlocks. Responding officers found what they described as a young, emaciated girl, they believed to be about ten, but in fact she was 17 years old. She led police back to their home, and what officers described was a a hellish scenario. Children chained to their beds, police could not give an adequate ents both arrested. The officers say what they discovered with several people chained to their beds in dark and foul smelling conditions. You say this girl who appeared to be ten but in fact was 17 had called to help. Had she escaped from a house . According to a Police Statement she said she was able to escape from the house and take a cell phone with her. Thats when the officers discovered the chilling environment. Do we note ages of the brothers and sisters . The youngest two, the oldest 29. They have all been taken to a hospitalfor a medical they have all been taken to a hospital for a medical evaluation. Right now we dont know their condition and police are keeping a tight lid on the situation at the time. What are neighbours say . They are saying it is a bizarre situation, it is about 70 miles north east of los angeles. It is a quiet community. Neighbours say they never saw the children and when they z never saw the children and when they z they would act a bit cagey, some would not respond at all. There is a strange tale that one neighbour describes, saying some of the children are were outside in the front yard at night planting grass but again all the neighbours we have spoken with, say the children, were, for the most part, unresponsive and that they didnt see them very often. You say two adults are being held on charges of torture child endangerment. Are he this the pa rents endangerment. Are he this the parents as far as we know . Yes, two people have been arrested. 57 year old David Alan Turpin and his wife, being charged with child engagement and torture, both being held on 9 million bail. After the couple were arrested neighbours began to learn how some of the children had been held captive in dark and dirty rooms, some had been so malnourished the authorities initially thought they were all underaged. We heard on facebook and on the news this family holed their children captive o in the house and chained some of their kids to the beds. Its been really shocking knowing they have 12 kids locked in their house. They were the type that you didnt really get to know anything about them. They were very to themselves, ina sense them. They were very to themselves, in a sense clan ish. So they only ke pt in a sense clan ish. So they only kept to themselves. The only time you would see them, you would never see them on business, or anyone come outside. All you would really see is that they would go out, maybe make a grocery run, that was about it. They ke pt grocery run, that was about it. They kept to themselves. They were, like isaid, the kept to themselves. They were, like i said, the kids were inadvice i will. The only time i saw the kids, beside the christmas incident, they we re beside the christmas incident, they were just coming out of the car and going into the house, that was t it was never going into the house, that was t it was never i going into the house, that was t it was never i never saw going into the house, that was t it was never i never saw the kids by themselves. The parents were close around. But i believe that they, even though i thought they were kids because they physically looked like pre steep, i dont believe they were. Ithink pre steep, i dont believe they were. I think these were the 20 year olds. Were. I think these were the 20yearolds. Still to come if you we re 20yearolds. Still to come if you were in charge of the nhs, what would you do to try to sort a long term sustainable funding situation. To sort winter pressures, overcrowded kids, queues at ambulances and so on. Yourfunding issues, welcome. A council in london will today consider the next step in the launching of a special order to stop anti abortion protectors Holding Daily vigils outside of a marie stopes clinic. The demonstrators are accused of harassing women attending the Abortion Clinic in ealing and displaying deliberately disturbing images. Councillors will decide whether to begin a consultation on whether or not to bring in a public Space Protection order to prevent disruption at the clinic. If its granted, it would be the first time its been used in a situation involving an Abortion Clinic. Were going to speak now to john hansen brevetti, a nurse and manager at the Ealing Marie Stopes clinic. Councillor binda rai represents the area where the clinic is and brought this issue to the attention of the council. And claire mccullough, founding trustee of the Good Counsel Network, which hold daily vigils outside the clinic, an organisation affiliated to the us anti abortion movement. John, tell us how the vigils have changed over time . We have seen the tactics used outside our doors get worse. Staff who been at the clinic for upwards of 20 years can describe a time when it was just peaceful prayer happening outside which people still found intimidating, but it is different to what we see today which is people standing directly outside our gates, engaging everyone who comes past trying to persuade them not to attend their treatment and they do this by calling them, mum by saying they will be haunted by the ghost of that i foetus, they will say rosarys at them and try and close the gate. All that you have described is lawful . It is and thats the issue is that when we call the police, theyre quite frustrated that also little they can do under current laws to protect women from going through that horrific experience, through that emotional blackmail and thats why were pleased with the leadership that Ealing Council has shown in bringing the proposal forward and taking the next step. It is a landmark thing and it has implications for the whole country and were hoping that parliament will take their cue and show leadership at a National Level as well. What is wrong with trying to persuade a woman about to go into your clinic to have an abortion potentially not to have one or to think further about it . Part of is the information that theyre given. Women are given leaflets by the pavement counsellors that have com pletely pavement counsellors that have completely false information on them, that theyll develop cancer, that theyll develop drug and alcohol habits, that they will feel inadequate as a mother in the future, the information they are receiving is wrong. The way in which it is being given to them is coercive and we see it as they come through our doors, theyre shaking and they are in tears and they are angry as are their partners or families who come to support them. What do they say to you when they get inside . They tell us that they have been called murderers and had their paths blocked and they felt judged and shamed and we see it happening, not only on the way in, but on the way out as well which is how we know this isnt about providing information or support, this is about making people feel ashamed, scared and intimidated about accessing treatment that theyve, in most cases, really thought long and hard about and come toa thought long and hard about and come to a Firm Decision already. You have cameras outside . It focusesjust on our property. We are not allowed to film beyond that because its a public area and we have some large hedges that block our view of most of this. A public Space Protection order is a step closer, Ealing Council are going to decide tonight whether to launch a consultation on bringing one in. What impact do you think such an order would have on the ealing clinic if it were to brought in . It would be an incredible day for us to know that our patients were coming to the clinic free that that experience on the way in and way out. It is something that people can enjoy in ealing, but it is happening outside clinics across the country, but it is an important first step and we would welcome it. You have been going to the clinic and standing outside for several years taking pa rt outside for several years taking part in vigils. The last time we spoke to you on this programme you denied all of the kind of claims that youve heard this morning from the nurse at the clinic today. Is he lying . Unfortunately, yes. Can i just say again. No, no. Yes, hes lying. How do you respond to that . I think unfortunately there has been a lot of denial about the impact this has on women. Weve, we hear it from our own patients. We hear it from our own patients. We hear it from our own patients. We hear it from our neighbours who phone us and say that they can see people distressed outside the clinic. Weve had officers from the council for the past several weeks interviewing women and not only have they heard it from the women, but they heard it from the women, but they have felt harassed and intimidated on the way in. Clare, you wouldnt know the impact on the patients because once theyre inside, you dont see them, so you have no idea what effect youre having on these patients . have no idea what effect youre having on these patients . I think when you stand outside an abortion ce ntre when you stand outside an Abortion Centre for 20 years and many of the women who stand there with us are women who stand there with us are women who stand there with us are women who have had pay bortions, many, many people who come to vigils outside clinics. I am talking about the women inside the clinics. They have been past people like ourselves and come to the vigils. So think we have a good idea on what women may feel. Do you accept that however youre doing t for some women and their partners, once they get inside the marie stopes clinic, they are upset, distressed and angry at you, not at their own decision, to have a termination . at you, not at their own decision, to have a termination . I think abortion is something that upsets women a lot im sure some women would rather. Im trying to answer. No, you would rather. Im trying to answer. No, you are would rather. Im trying to answer. No, you are answering a different question. I accept that some women who are extremely upset at the horrible decision they are feeling they have to take, dont like our presence there, yes, i acce pt like our presence there, yes, i accept that. So why do you carry on then . Can ijust correct, you said we are affiliated to the group in america, we are not. Why do you carry on . Last friday i spoke to several of my counsellors who during the week one of them at ealing had spoken to a woman who had been there three times and didnt want to go ahead with the abortion and felt she had no alternatives, at this moment, one of the passers by saw this crying lady and grabbed her arm and rushed into the clinic with her because she could see this woman was upset and presumed we were upsetting her. On that occasion, a woman had approached us for help and support that she was not getting inside the Abortion Centre, thats why were still there. Thats the explanation, the justification for why the group is still there, what do you say . Well, over the past four months or so now, our officers have been investigating all these claims. They have been collecting evidence and what weve concluded is that the behaviour outside the clinic is unacceptable. There is harassment. There is intimidation of these women andl there is intimidation of these women and i think basically we have a responsibility to stop that sort of behaviour. Why havent you called the police . The police have been called on some occasion and we have consta nt called on some occasion and we have constant policing outside the clinic. I know that every saturday that i have been there, the police are there in force, but its very difficult for the police because their current legislation is really restricting because in terms of harassment, you have got to prove this is continuous harassment to one individual and many of the women that come and visit the clinic will only come once or twice so its really difficult to make harassment stand up legally. Im going to appeal to our audience, we have been trying to talk to women who have been going to the clinic, understandably, it is a very sensitive situation, but if there is anybody watching right now, who has used the clinic and who has walked past the Group Holding the vigils, do send me an e mail now or a message and you can do that anonymously and tell us your own experiences. What would be the effect of this kind of protection order if the Council Takes the decision to hold a consultation on it which is a step closer to the order . Yes, the effect would be that we would have a certain area that would not allow any protesters to protest outside that area. So women would be able to access the clinic without anybody obstrucking their journey to the clinic. Right. And of course, we mustnt forget that would also make life a lot easier for People Living in that street, for people using the facilities in that area, the park, the theatre down the road. What impact is it having on residents, do you say . Well, residents are having to see this and hear this every single day. Hear what . The prayers. Theyre having to look at the graphic images that are on display. We have no graphic images. Well, i was there on saturday, i saw graphic images. When she says graphic pictures, you mean pictures of the developing baby. think it is inappropriate for Young Children to see those images. To see pictures of a developing baby a womb . Parents have to choose to discuss, parents dont have a choice on whether theyre discussing those issues with their children. What issues, developing babies in the womb . Lots of children see these all the time. Parents dont have a choice about discussion. What discussion . A lot of parents told me they have had to have discussion with their children about abortion and thats a topic they should be able to choose as and when they discuss it with their children. There is nothing in those images. There is nothing in those images. There is nothing in those images. There is a school nearby and people will use a different route to get to the school. Theyll use a different route to get to the park and i dont think people should be restricted in that way because a group of people decide they want to protest, thats the vigil holders and the pro choice group. I think that area needs to be brought back to normality. If this order is ultimately brought m, if this order is ultimately brought in, that would be unprecedented. If this order is ultimately brought in, that would be unprecedentedm would. Particularly in terms of protecting an Abortion Clinic, if protecting an Abortion Clinic, if protecting is the right word, but it would only be in place for three yea rs. Would only be in place for three years. It only lasts for three years is my understanding. Thats the difficulty with is pspo, but once we have consulted and if residents agree it would be the best fit for a solution for ealing. However, we do need a National Solution and i know that myself and julian bell have given evidence to the Home Affairs Select committee where we have very clearly said a National Solution, we need National Legislation otherwise women across the country arent going to be protected and youre going to be protected and youre going to be protected and youre going to end up with a Postcode Lottery asjohn stated going to end up with a Postcode Lottery as john stated earlier. We are showing our audience images of some of the vigils outside and some of the images that are held up on placards and i would love to read some messages from our audience, but my tablet has decided to freeze on me so my tablet has decided to freeze on mesoi my tablet has decided to freeze on me so i apologise for that. John, the work that you do at the clinic, tell us about the significance of it. Its different for every woman who comes through. We have a lot of patients who simply feel they cannot continue with the pregnancy for whatever reason. That it would be detrimental to their lives and in fa ct detrimental to their lives and in fact the only way that abortion is legal in this country is if two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy would in fact have a detrimental effect to that womans mental or physical health. We have other women who come to us because it was a wanted pregnancy, but an abnormality has been discovered and they have to terminate. It is these sorts of circumstances that nobody knows about when a woman is approaching our clinic and yet they are all approached in the same way, every single woman and they are being told that they will be punished for their decision. Its not true. It is what they tell us when they are in the door. It is not true. If you look through the marie stopes log, there is one or two claims. These are the best hand picked ones refer to the presence of sister supporters around the gate in many instances, the complaints of women standing away from the clinic and phoning the clinic because they are afraid of the protest at the doctor, refer to the protest at the doctor, refer to the times when sister supporter are across the door which are bin laden da and john. This is why we would be happy for a public Space Protection order that bans all protests. This isnt about one group. There are five different anti abortion groups. We dont care if it is sister support outside, we want that area free so that women can walk in without having to walk past a crowd and without having to walk past one person. Victoria, we have had discussions with both groups and we have come, we have tried to get an agreement, we have tried to get them to agree not to do what theyre doing at the moment, but we have come to a deadlock. You have stated clare, that you will continue to do what you do and operate in the way thaw do. We have had no discussion with the council about stopping any particular behaviours, you have never put to us particular behaviours and asked us to stop those particular behaviours. Behaviours have been discussed with us, but we have never been told if you stop doing this or stop doing that the vigil will continue. You never told the select committee that you would change your behaviour. Clare is in denial, we have witnessed this behaviour. We have been told its going to continue no matter what. So we have no choice, but to look at the report thats come to committee tonight and consider consulting with residents, all stakeholders including clares group and every other group to see ifa group and every other group to see if a pspo is the right way forward. Whenjohn se if a pspo is the right way forward. When john se saying we if a pspo is the right way forward. Whenjohn se saying we are if a pspo is the right way forward. When john se saying we are blocking the gates and shutting the gates on women, why are they not bringing forward cctv images of this. This is where their cctv camera is on, the path on the gate, not a single image of us doing this has emerged, why . Because it doesnt happen. I will read some messages and then i wa nt to i will read some messages and then i want to ask you about the significance of your work in your view and then im going to talk to a woman who has used the clinic. Trevor tweets, the anti abortion terrorists, who protest outside Abortion Clinics should be banned from protesting within 500 meters of the gates of a clinic. They have no right to push their religious and moral views on others seeking lawful treatment. A tweet from this viewer, whats wrong with asking a woman who is having an abortion, not to have an abortion . Well, it is not your body for starters. Another viewer, i think it is disgusting these protesters put these women through such guilt. They have no idea what their personal situation is. Perhaps they cant support the child or a pregnancy would endanger the woman. Take a look at the story of the children being enshackled. They have no right tojudge. I was advised to i a bort my women at 20 weeks because my water has gone. She was born and is now three. Im going to talk to one woman, who tally didnt use the ealing clinic, used a different Abortion Clinic. Good morning, thank you very much for talking to us, i will call you isobel. I know thats not your real name but thank you for talking to us, isobel. Tell us of your experience of entering an Abortion Clinic . I had to go to the clinic twice. I was turned away the first time due to having to wait too long. So, suffered the abuse kind of twice and it was just torturous, really. So, suffered the abuse kind of twice and it wasjust torturous, really. I mean we are lucky enough to have this choice and be free to have this choice in the uk. And you should just be able to go and do what you feel is right at the time. These people standing outside, have no idea of who you are, where you come from, what your scenario is and how you have got into the situation. What abuse was it that you suffered, isobel if i might ask, bearing in mind, it is a daytime audience. Of course. Just being called a murder. Quite graphic images being pushed into your face and, you know mentioned around. And mentions around god. In this country we have around god. In this country we have a free right to decide what we believe and dont believe in. What impact did it have on you . It made a very stressful time even more stressful. I dont know whether these people understand that it is still difficult to make a decision like that. So, you know the people in the clinics are specialised and trained to provide that support and, you know, thats very much welcomed but you dont kind of need harassing when you are going about your decision. Thank you very much isobel. Thank you for coming on the programme. I appreciate t lisa says if programme. I appreciate t lisa says if i programme. I appreciate t lisa says if i wanted programme. I appreciate t lisa says if i wanted counselling i wouldnt go and see someone on a street corner. Linda tweets people, if they want an abortion should able to do so peacefully without intimidation. I really think people going in without knowing the details, they do not need self opinionaited people outside giving crass info, concentrate on your own lives. Joanna giving crass info, concentrate on your own lives. Joanna says giving crass info, concentrate on your own lives. Joanna says even if you are antiabortion you have no right to stress already harassed and vulnerable women. The decision tonight, what are you expecting . We will have to wait and see. There will have to wait and see. There will be a debate but i hope that cabinet will approve the consultation and we go ahead with the next stage because it is really important for us to protect women who are trying to access legally Available Health care without intimidation and harass am. And briefly, claire, the significance of your work . Well, we have seen hundreds of women over the years, we have seen over 1,000 women in london chose life for their children by being offered help or having a supportive person outside who felt they had no alternative. Over half of those women come from the Ealing Centre and i think that if this is put in place it is an attempt by the clinic to people their profits high and very little ca re their profits high and very little care for women. Just look at nhs choices. Reviews of ma ri, e stopes delinic online, i would ask you to look at that, and what choices they have. We have a nurse and manager from there, choices they have. We have a nurse and managerfrom there, would you like to talk about that the lack of ca re like to talk about that the lack of care and profits sn. S it is untru. All of the nurses that worked in the clinic theyjoined this line of work to support women. I think thats easy to understand. We have heard multiple accusations that our numbers have gone down because ofp good counsels presence outside the clinic, actually they have gone to other clinics, the total numbers across the uk havent changed. The only impact this is having is delaying treatment when someone approaches the clinic, they see a crowd, they dont want to pass, so they rebook. It is not true, figures are drochlingt it means they have to receive treatment at a later gestation and it is safer to be treated earlier and you have more options. They are being rob of their choice and safety. These women are being helped. We are seeing them and their babies, they are not going elsewhere. Thank you. Well report back on the programme tomorrow after the decision tonight. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Still to come the nhs is in crisis say many people. How do we solve the problems to safe guard the service for the future . Well talk to various people who have their own solutions. Ministers from 20 counties are meeting in canada to talk about curbing north Koreas Nuclear programme. Later in the programme well be speaking an american author who has written about the norths nuclear capabilities. Time for the latest news, heres reeta. Two parents have been arrested in california after police found they allegedly kept their 13 children captive at home, some of whom were shackled to their beds. The brothers and sisters who were aged between two and 29 were found by police after one girl escaped and alerted the authorities. Their parents have been charged with torture and child endangerment. Thousands of Small Businesses working for carillion are waiting to find out if theyll be paid, following the collapse of the firm. Britains second Largest Construction Company which also holds cleaning and catering contracts for schools, hospitals and prisons went into liquidation yesterday with debts of around £1. 5 billion. Within the past hour, the archbishop of canterbury has said the firms collapse threatens workers, families and sub contractors. The four time olympic champion gymnast, simone biles, has said she was sexually abused by the usa team doctor, larry nassar. In a tweet, simone biles described herself as one of many survivors but said she had been reluctant to speak out until now. Larry nassar was jailed last month for 60 years for possessing images of child sexual abuse and is awaiting sentence for assaulting other athletes. Police say they are not treating the death of the cranberries singer, dolores oriordan, as suspicious. The a6 year old was found dead in a hotel in londons park lane yesterday. The irish musician, originally from limerick, led the band to International Success in the 90s with singles including linger and zombie. Mps say the manufacturer, whirlpool, hasnt done enough to deal with defective tumble dryers which have caused hundreds of fires. The Commons Business Committee said the response to the problem, discovered in 2015, had been woeful. It also said that it was unacceptable that more than one million potentially dangerous dryers were still being used in peoples homes. The company insists its repair campaign has been successful. The controversial claim that the uk sends £350 million a week to the eu has been described as a gross underestimate by the foreign secretary, boris johnson. In an interview with the guardian newspaper, mrjohnson said britains contribution would rise to almost £aao million by the end of the post brexit transition period. Vote leaves claim about the uks contribution to the eu was hotly disputed during the eu referendum. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news. This anonymous texter regarding the Abortion Clinic in ealing in my experience in ealing they have not been physically abecausive or obstructive but their presence is inappropriate and makes the situation is whole lot more daunting. Heres some sport now with hugh. Johanna konta is through to the second round of the Australian Open. Shes the ninth seed in melbourne this year and beat Madison Brengle in straight sets in temperatures approaching a0 degrees. Defending champion Roger Federer had a straight sets win over former british player, aljaz bedene. Who is now back representing slovenia. Manchester united have reduced Manchester Citys lead at the top of the premier league to 12 points after beating stoke last night. They won 3 0 at old trafford with new stoke boss paul lambert watching from the stands. And united could have a major signing in the next few days too. Manchester city have ended their interest in alexis sanchez. So united and now we understand chelsea too are battling to sign the chilean from arsenal. The british brand, burberry, has become the latest organisation to say it wont work with members of the fashion industry that have been found to have abused their position. It comes as two star photographers Mario Testino, a favourite of the British Royal family, and american bruce weber both strenuously deny accusations made against them by a string of models and assistants in the new york times. Lets talk to our reporter, chichi izundu. What are burberry saying . They have basically said they will now no longer commission future projects with marrow test teeniour and bruce weber. It is notjust them. Other companies have also said they will not be working with them in the future. As saud said Mario Testino and bruce weber, strenuously deny this. Next week is paris mens fashion week, so itll be interesting to see if there are any further developments in the fashion world, who will no longer work with people who they say av abused their position of power. What were the accusations that they deny . Some include encouraging male models to get nude when it wasnt part of the shoot. Being quite sexually suggestive, in some cases. Yes, stuart whiteman, burberry, michael corrs, raffle lauren, says they will not work with anyone, including con, de nast saying they will no longer work with people they believe have abused their position of power in the world of fashion. As i said, bruce weber deny the claims. Mario, testonos lawyers say his accuser cannot be considered reliable sources. This morning weve been asking how we get to grips with the huge pressure the nhs is under this winter. Over the last few weeks youll have seen reports of over crowded a es, a lack of beds and queues of ambulances stacked up outside unable to hand over their patients. On top of that as the nhs approaches its 70th birthday, its having to deal with a growing and ageing population adding more pressure to its services. Last week on this programme conservative mp nick boles argued that money from National Insurance should go to the nhs. I believe that if people knew that when they looked at their pay slip and that there was a line that said National Health insurance, if they knew that that one legally could only go to support National Health ca re only go to support National Health care and social care, that they would be willing to pay a bit more. And its not going to have to be an enormous amount more, but there are going to have to be some increases. So how should the nhs be funded . Lets talk to the former chair of the Royal College of general practitioners, dr clare gerada, she is also a member of the liberal democrats. Stephen dorrell is chair of the Nhs Confederation which represents providers and commissioners. Hes also a former conservative health secretary. And Alex Hitchcock who is from the think tank reform which looks at the nhs amongst other issues and is not alligned to any political party. Welcome all of you. So, the funding of nhs and social care. What is your solution . Well, clearly we do need more money. And to have a hypothicated, tax, ringfenced seems a sensible way forward. Also, i think we should be looking at 1 for income tax, to look and urgently address the funding crisis. Money isnt the whole answer, of course, you have very, very Expensive Health systems, such as the American Health systems, such as the American Health system which doesnt deliver what it should. It is clearly notjust money. We need the investment in the right places and we need investment in out of hospital care, community care, primary care, so we can keep people as healthy as possible for as long as possible before we put them into very expensive beds. We will,back to some of the other issues you raised there. We will come back. Stephen dorrell, former secretary of state for health now nhs scone confederation chairman. Your solution . Well, first of all, it is true that health and Public Services generally need more money in the long term, in order to deliver the improving Public Services that we all want to see. Health is part of that. Part of the problem, i think, health is part of that. Part of the problem, ithink, as health is part of that. Part of the problem, i think, as claire said, is seeing health separate from social care, from social housing, and the full range of social houses. Thats why, within the confederation what we have done, is to set up in partnership with the institute of fiscal stud yans the health foundation, instead of guessing how much money Public Services need for the future, a serious analysis of demand trends, so we can look and see what the rising elderly population, what the implications of that are and then we can plan for it asa that are and then we can plan for it as a country. Just a quick side issue but really important. Should the nhs they, rather than local councils be in charge of commissioning social care . Snipe not in favour of imagining it is all the responsibility of the health service. I think Health Policy actually ought to be about enabling us to lead, not merely longer lives but also healthier and more enjoyable lives. It is about housing, jobs, public spaces as well as the treatment of disease in the health service. 0k. Alex hitch corks your suggestion . So, ithink your suggestion . So, i think Alex Hitchcock. Stephen is right with the about the support of services more money is needed. The nhs is well funded. Snr less than other european countries. If you include social cakes 9. 9 of gdp is spent on health and social care, above the eu average. We need to look at how care is delivered. Currently too much is delivered in hospitals when it can be delivered in gps, more efficient and more effective and as claire will be able to testify but also look at social care as well, to ensure we can get people out of hospital who dont need to be there. But if you cut £6 billion from social care which the coalition and conservative skefsh government has in the last seven years, you can see why hospitals are full certainly so. That points to the challenge of spending the money in the correct places. You have had those cuts. North cutting in the first place by quite so much. But at the same time, the nhss funding has been ringfenced and hospital funding going up. Of course, ringfenced. We know that but if you are at the same time cutting billion from social care, it is going to have a knock on effect, is it not . We all know there is a rising population of elderly people, we should celebrate that. Thats not a problem, thats because we can look forward to longer lives. Surely the policy challenge is to make the longer lives more enjoyable and to keep people out of hospital and even out of gp surgeries so we can enjoy life. We need to access when were ill, but we should be looking for opportunities to support people to enjoy their lives and not rely on treatment of avoidable illness. The amount is below the average eu allocation. The eu average includes a lot of very poor countries by our standards. Yes, it also includes, there is a lot of ca re also includes, there is a lot of care thats paid for separately outside that, it is a complicated issue, but nevertheless i think we need more money. I do think we need to be looking at how we use the money as weve heard, it is better to fund care outside hospital, nevertheless, we dont have enough beds. I think we have over christmas 98 bed occupancy is not on in a modern health care system. We need to be investing, as the others have said, in keeping people safe in their homes and i wonder how many people, how many people of my generation are looking at their homes and saying, well, where is the trip hazard . Have i got a bed thats suitable as i grow older . Can i put thats suitable as i grow older . Can iputa thats suitable as i grow older . Can i put a wheelchair between my doors . Do think of you support charging for services, either going to see the gp or whatever it might be . No, thats very difficult. That points to more money being put into the system whereas we would argue that shouldnt be the case. It is difficult to be able to value what is gp appointment is worth before you know, how much is a lump worth, ifi you know, how much is a lump worth, if i find it in the morning is it worth going to the gp or not . No, i am not in favour of producing additional charges within the health service, what i am in favour of doing as recognising as our society gets richer, as the economy grows all the evidence is that we shall devote, we shall want to devote, as citizens, a rising share of that income to the delivery of improving Public Services to enable us to enjoy our longer lives. Briefly. You had a call of somebody who went infor you had a call of somebody who went in for calpol. The price of that calpol if somebody paid for it over the counter, probably under £1. The real cost now of that patient going in and using a gp, might be £30 to £a0, we need a sensible discussion for the public. This is our money, our services and our choices, but i do think we need to be looking at where services should be free and where services should be free and where we should be expected to pay for ourselves. Pay extra. Yeah. We know what you meant. Foreign ministers from around 20 countries are meeting in canada to discuss how to curb north Koreas Nuclear programme. China will not be there. It says the meeting will not help resolve tensions. Last year saw fiery exchanges between us President Donald Trump and north Korean Leader kimjong un, but 2018 has seen a thaw in relations, resulting in high level talks between the north and south last week. But how much of that thaw is due to Donald Trumps heavy handed diplomacy . Lets talk to Greg Scarlatoiu in washington. Hes the executive director of the committee for human rights in north korea. Gordon chang an american author whos written about the norths nuclear capabilities. Thank you very much for talking to us. How significant is this big meeting in canada, greg . This meeting in canada, greg . This meeting is supposed to be about a ramping up pressure and sanctions and clearly, this is the reason why china is not present. Again, its a meeting meant to strengthen the economic pressure exercised against the north korean regime in order to achieve the strategic objective of naving north korea suspend and give up naving north korea suspend and give up its Nuclear Programme and its missile programme. Gordon, any decision made by Foreign Ministers today isnt much use, without the backing of china, is that right . Well, you know, i think that right . Well, you know, i think that china should not be there and the reason is this is supposed to be a meeting of like minded nations and these are nations want to increase pressure on north korea. China has been busting sanctions continually throughout 2017 and it is about a bad actor so i dont think china should be in the room and nor should russia. Yes, china and russia are consequential, but that doesnt mean that they should be part of the solution at this point. We can get china to co operate, but only if we put immense pressure on beijing and so, thats what this talk about today putting pressure on china, on russia and on north korea. How do you assess greg, the Nuclear Threat from north korea this year . Clearly, under the kim jong un regime, from north korea this year . Clearly, under the kimjong un regime, north korea has dramatically accelerated both its nuclear and its long range Ballistic Missile programme. Four out of six Nuclear Tests by north korea have happened on kimjong uns watch. If one looks at statements, public statements, by senior officials, i think we are pretty close to acknowledging that north korea has reached one of its fundamental strategic objectives which is being capable of having a long range Ballistic Missile capable of delivering a Nuclear Warhead to the continental united states. Gordon, do you think that now sanctions are biting, north korea might be willing to put their Nuclear Programme on the table when it comes to negotiations in the future . Sanctions, indeed are biting and there is a lot of evidence of that including koupgs new years address. He talked about sanctions being a threat to the regime. We have seen for instance officials in pyongyang are not getting their rations through the distribution system. The soldier who defected in december had uncooked kernels of corn. Those most favoured a scroujing for food. North korea is not at the point to sit done artalk about denuclearisation. That means that sanctions need to be ramped up. At some point, i think, that sanctions need to be ramped up. At some point, ithink, that that sanctions need to be ramped up. At some point, i think, that the regime, either kimjong un at some point, i think, that the regime, either kim jong un or those around him are going to realise this they have no choice, but to give up, but the pressure has got to be much more than it is now. Thank you both. Thank you very much. In the last half an hour, we asked you to get in touch with your experiences of an Abortion Clinic in ealing in west london. The council is meeting today to discuss whether to introduce a special order to stop any protesters holding vigils thousands marie stopes clinic. Clare mcculloch told us their protests we re mcculloch told us their protests were not over the top. So, we asked you to get in touch and share your experiences. Louisa used the clinic in ealing five years ago. Lisa is not her real and also used the same clinic. Hello both of you. Hello. Hi. Hi. Louisa, tell us your experience. Yes, i have been to the clinic. It was my first term nation and as soon as i got there with my partner, i had a woman coming to me with very graphic images, with leaflets a nd with very graphic images, with leaflets and then called me a murderer. I went inside the clinic crying already. I had lots of support inside the clinic and that created a big impact when i went home after i finished the ter minute nation. Those people made my experience worse than it already was. All i kept thinking was, am i a murderer . I was doubting myself andi a murderer . I was doubting myself and i dont think those people should be in those places. Let me bring in lisa, lisa isnt her real name. You also used the same clinic and you were accompanying your daughter who had an abortion, lisa, i understand. Tell us what happened. Well, my daughter fell pregnant or became pregnant when she was 17 after a two month relationship with somebody. We had a very Tearful Exchange where she said that she really didnt feel that she wanted to go ahead with the pregnancy. I toll her that i would support her either way. She made toll her that i would support her eitherway. She made up toll her that i would support her either way. She made up her mind and we went to ealing. She was very young. She came across these people outside and i asked her again at that time whether she was really sure . We had the most fantastic care within the clinic. They actually asked her whether she was really sure because obviously she is young and advised her about things like possible guilt and all of that, but she went ahead and now she, you know, has a daughter of he own. She has a life. She has a phd and i dont believe any of that would have happened if she had gone ahead with the pregnancy. What impact did the protesters outside have on you and your daughter . It made me very angry and hervery sad. Your daughter . It made me very angry and her very sad. Why did it make you angry . Because i felt that they really should just back off. This is a very hard decision. Nobody has an abortion lightly in my view. Its a very ha rd abortion lightly in my view. Its a very hard decision for anybody to make. Its not easy. And so that made me angry. Itjust made her feel guilty, sad, you know, all the rest of it. Louisa, let me ask you, the Council Meets tonight to discuss the next step in whether to bring in the protection order, do you think they should . Yes, i think they should go ahead and those people shouldnt be allowed to be at the clinic. Making Vulnerable People feel worse about everything. Everybodys situation is different. They dont know the reasons why different. They dont know the reasons why someone different. They dont know the reasons why someone is there. They shouldnt make people feel like that. Its wrong. You may have heard the representative from the Good Counsel Network say they do what she said, was they do offer some women support who look like they need support who look like they need support and in some cases, the woman changes her mind about having an abortion. Yes, its true. Some women do change their mind, but it has to be the womans decision. Its her body. Its her decision. She is in charge of her body. If she thinks it is not the right time to have a child, whatever circumstances she has, no one should try to change her mind. It is the womans decision if she wants to go ahead or not. Lisa, finally, do you think any protest outside Abortion Clinics should be banned with the bringing in of should be banned with the bringing inofa should be banned with the bringing in of a protection order, briefly . Briefly, applaud freedom of speech, but i think that circumstances regarding abortion are so varied that they should basically not be allowed. Ok. Thank you both. Im really grateful that you came on the programme. Thank you, lisa. Thank you, louisa. Thank you very much. On the programme tomorrow, how do achieve a better Work Life Balance . Thank you for watching today. Were back tomorrow at 9am. Have a good day. Well, it has been a cold and windy morning across much of the British Isles and we have seen some snow in places. This was the scene earlier in edinburgh and we will continue to see more snow across northern parts as we go through the afternoon. So much of the snow across Northern Ireland, scotland and northern parts of england, we have a warning for snow and ice there. Further south and east, well, its drier and with the best of the brightness across east anglia, some showers in the south as well and we factor in the wind, its feeling raw out there with the temperatures down to minus four celsius. Tomorrow, it is another very unsettled day. More showers coming in, but fewer showers by the time we get into the afternoon. Strong winds yet again. The best of the sunshine across the south and not feeling as cold as today with a the temperatures ranging between two to eight celsius and then it is all eyes to the west. Wednesday night and into thursday, we have got the storm making its way m, we have got the storm making its way in, bringing with it strong winds and also a mixture of rain, sleet and also a mixture of rain, sleet and snow. This is bbc news. And these are the top stories developing at 11am. The government says firms working for failed construction giant carillion on purely private sector deals will only have two days of government support. Monday morning, people turned up for work. 30 people got sent home. We hadnt been advised in the office so obviously people are looking for work to place them within our workforce. Its a very difficult situation. No one had told us it was going to happen. A californian couple are arrested on suspicion of torture, after police found their 13 emaciated children in their home, some chained to their beds. They were the type that you didnt really get to know anything about them. They were very to themselves, in a sense, clannish. So they only kept to themselves. Inflation eased slightly from its six year high in december, falling to an annual rate of 3