with me, zeinab badawi. my guest today is funny. she's a comedian, actor, and a disability advocate. she was born in the united states to palestinian immigrant parents. and since birth has been living with cerebral palsy, a condition which affects the brain and nervous system. maysoon zayid believes comedy has the power to transform the lives of disabled people. she also says her standup comedy shows help normalize the perceptions of muslims, when many seek to demonize them. can comedy really do all that? and where do you draw the line between what's funny and what's unacceptable? theme music plays maysoon zayid, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for having me. i really want to shake your hand, but i shake too much to shake. laughs consider it done. maysoon zayid, you've said if there were an oppression olympics, you would win the gold medal. yes. why do you say that? i would definitely win the gold medal because i'm palestinian, i'm muslim, i'm a woman of colour, i'm disabled, and i live in donald trump's america. you don't get more oppressed than that. we'll come to donald trump's america perhaps a little bit later, butjust explain to us what does it mean to have cerebral palsy? so, in my case, my cerebral palsy is as a result of doctor error. the doctor who delivered me was drunk and so now i appear to be drunk for my entire life, even when i'm sober. in my case, my cp makes me shake all the time and it affects my co—ordination. it's a neurological disorder that affects muscle co—ordination but it exhibits differently in different people with cp. you have said, however, "i have 99 problems and cerebral palsy is just one of them" — have you always had such a positive attitude towards your condition, and where does that come from? i have always had a positive attitude towards my condition because i was raised as an equal by my parents. my parents acknowledged my disability, they accommodated my disability, but they didn't focus on it. so whatever my sisters had to do, i had to do. if my sisters were cleaning, i was going to be cleaning. if they went to public school, my parents fought and made sure that i too could go to public school. when i was born, the doctors told my parents that i would never walk. now, this is something really important. there's no shame in not walking, there's no shame in using a wheelchair, or a walker, or a cane, and sometimes people use the word "wheelchair—bound", that term is incorrect. mobility devices free people. but when i was growing up, my father was aware that i'd be spending time in two separate worlds — in america and also in the west bank. so he was determined to teach me how to walk and he did. so you derive that kind of positive attitude from your very close—knit palestinian family, in particular your late father? yes... it was he who encouraged you, was it? my father encouraged me and my mother strengthened me. my mother is a tiger mum. so she showed no mercy. the other day i was on tv, i called my mum, i said, "what did you think?" she said, "your hair looked terrible" and it did, and i was glad she told me because i learned for the next time. my father was my cheerleader. and he had a mantra and his mantra was "you can do it, yes you can can" and he really believed that i could do anything i dreamt of, and encouraged me to take chances and also to accept when i could not. you've spoken of how you would walk on your father's feet so that you could learn how to walk, and he'd be dangling a dollar note before you, in order to entice you into walking as much as possible. i mean, that's just one small example of how you do make jokes about having cerebral palsy... and also how he approached it in a fun way. you know, i always say, i walked miles on my father's shoes, but the dollar bill was really what worked the best for me because my inner stripper was so strong that i was running in stilettos by kindergarten. but do you think that, you know, that kind of approach, talking about it in that way perhaps, might to some people, strike them as though you are making light of something which after all is quite serious and is restricting for many people because of the way society deals with people with disabilities? i think that talking about my disability honestly and with humour, makes it more accessible and less frightening for people, and i think that applies to people with disabilities and also to caretakers and parents. i think it's so important that we destigmatise disability. my disability is visible, but there's also so many invisible disabilities. and the stigma around disability is real. when someone is pregnant, the very first thing people tell them is "i hope it's healthy". we don't acknowledge the fact that there's a chance that it won't be. and what i want is for people to see that, regardless of what disability a person has, they still have potential, they can still have joy, they can still have love. i often say, people think of people with disabilities as happy smowflake angel babies that never grow up and don't get married and don't have kids — we have the potential to live full lives, whether we are verbal, non—verbal, mobile, not mobile. and i think that by approaching my disability the way i would any of my other 99 problems, it empowers people to be loud and proud about their disability and to not fear disability in others. but when you saw your more able bodied sisters and you saw how you perhaps couldn't do everything that they could, did you feel in any way angry or frustrated at any time? i didn't really feel otherised or disabled until i got to college, until i finished high school, because, in addition to my family, my friends were very supportive. i've had the same best friends since i was five years old. you were in a mainstream school and that for you is very important? yes, my parents had to fight for me to be in a mainstream school. when i went to start school, they wanted to send me to a special school for children with down syndrome, and my parents fought to have me mainstreamed. i believe that if they hadn't fought for my education, i wouldn't be sitting here on hardtalk with you right now. and i think that one of the most important things in the world is to make sure that children with disabilities worldwide... including those with down syndrome... including those with down syndrome, non—verbal, intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities — we all have a right to education and, sure, not everyone‘s going to be a heart surgeon — i certainly don't have the co—ordination — but we need to give people the potential to learn. but, as i said, you've made a living from being a stand—up comedian and making jokes about your disabilities, you know, one of yourjokes is the one about the car park. i say that most people have dreamt of being disabled at some point in their life, because if you come on a journey with me, it's christmas eve and you're driving around looking for parking. what do you see? 16 empty handicapped spaces and you wish to yourself, can't ijust be a little disabled, but also, there is a flipside to that. i always use the disabled parking and some people don't realise that i'm disabled, so we have to understand that disability does not all look the same in every person. sure but, i mean, makingjokes like that, it takes a lot of skill to take on what, for some people, is a bit of a taboo subject. so, where do you draw the line between humour and what ends up just making fun of somebody with disabilities, mocking them almost? i tell personal stories and because i'm telling a personal story, i don't believe that there's a line that i can cross. comedy is taking risks. comedy, you're always pushing that line. where is that line? is it where you say yourjokes might encourage somebody to mock a person with disabilities? the line i draw is that i don't find humour in cruelty, so i have stopped using words that are painful to people, i've stopped mocking things that hurt people, because i want my audience to be happy and to laugh, i don't want to invoke their darkest memories, i don't want to invoke traumas and abuse and pain. and it's not censorship. it's always putting my audience first — i want them to laugh. because, i tell you, the british comedy actor, ricky gervais, has made jokes about a dead baby, says, "outside actually breaking the law or causing someone actual physical harm, hurting someone‘s feelings is almost impossible to objectively quantify" — do you agree with that? i absolutely agree with that. and i did several dead babyjokes on tour in belgium because i do believe that context matters, that anything can be funny and that comedy is subjective. when i say that i make choices, i make choices because i do not find being abusive funny, but, if someone else can take something super traumatic and make it funny, it's their right to do so and try so. do you think you have more of a right, in a way, to make comedy about people with disabilities because you are somebody with disabilities yourself? imean, for example, the late american comedian, joan rivers, made jokes about the holocaust and she said, "look, that's ok because i'm jewish," she said. i feel the same way about disability. i don't find it entertaining or humorous when comedians who don't have disabilities mock disabilities or imitate disabilities. disability is part of who i am, it's my community... so it gives you a right? you can go further... it gives me the same right that a person of colour has a right to talk about being a person of colour. and having a disability, it gives me the right to talk about it. but i never pretend that disability is a monolith. i can talk about physical disability, but i have no right to go on stage and mock an intellectual disability just ‘cause i happen to be disabled. i think the fact that i have a personal connection allows me to talk about it in a way that others shouldn't, honestly. you have actually ended up on social media being the object of bullying. you have been called "gumby mouthed" and other things. i mean, that's the kind of risk you run, isn't it? i've been subjected to a lot of bullying online. in the past two years, i've been subjected to death threats. and i often talk to the guys that do comedy with me, and i ask them, "do you get threats like i do?" and they never do. they have people saying that they want to punch them. i have people saying, "i'm going to rape you so that your father honour kills you." so it is a deep, deep frightening world out there, but i refuse to be silenced. and the reason i refuse to be silenced is, while i was subjected to bullying, i talked about it in my ted talk, when i did, i had women, teens, girls, worldwide reach out to me and say "i've been bullied", "i've had fear, and knowing that you survived it gives me the power to survive it too." you respond to them, don't you, sometimes? why notjust ignore them? well, i'm a comedian and we grew up in comedy clubs being heckled and when someone heckles you, you have to take them down, it's a natural instinct. so i have a process and my process is, first, i try to educate, because you wouldn't believe how many people are genuinely ignorant. if they fail to learn, then i mock them. i love getting a good joke in. but you are upset by the bullying too? i'm upset by the death threats, i'm disturbed by the bullying. the bullying doesn't make me go on screen and be self conscious about my wiggling lip, or the fact i slur a bit. the bullying makes me go on screen and go, "i'm on tv and you're not, darling. watch me." it kind of empowers me, even though i could live without it. but death threats scare me. but you don't think to yourself at any time, i wish i hadn't sought such a high—profile or do you just accept that's part of the price you have to pay? i think that if i had grown up with social media, i would never have stepped foot on television, but now it's my destiny and i'm not going to let anyone take me down. but why not just forget your disabilities and carry on, you know, leading your life? i tell you what one british comedian, francesca martinez, has said about her cerebral palsy, she says, "i've accepted my cerebral palsy. i'd wasted years worrying about the way i walked or talked." she says she's no longer defined by cerebral palsy. she says, "a quick look outside my own tiny world was enough for me to feel guilty. millions of others live in war and poverty, and without clean water, food or shelter." disability‘s not a monolith. cerebral palsy doesn't define me, but it's a huge part of who i am. i accept it, but it's a part of my story and i'm happy to include it in my comedy because it's part of who i am. it's a real thing. i want to take a drink of water right now, i can't. i need a straw. that's a reality. pretending that it's not a reality does nothing to lessen its impact my life. you went to arizona state university and you studied drama there and you've said how you were very disappointed when there was a role in a drama which needed somebody with cerebral palsy and they cast an able—bodied person in the role. so i was a straight—a student in theatre. i knew i had talent, a new that i was a good actress and i knew that i wasn't getting cast but i couldn't figure out why. so senior year they had a story about a girl with cerebral palsy i was like, i was literally born to play this! and then i didn't get the role and when i asked why they said it was because i couldn't do the stunts. the reality was the university was reflecting hollywood, which shuns people with disabilities. we are by far the largest minority in the world. we are 20% of the population and only 2% of the images you see on american television. of those 2%, 95% are played by non—disabled actors. a lot of us in the disability community, which is kind of led by me, i'm kind of the queen of us, find it very, very offensive for a non—disabled actors to play a visible disability on screen. we think of it like race. it's not something that you can act. when someone plays cerebral palsy and they are twitching and flailing about, that's not what the disability is and it's offensive, inauthentic and it takes away our opportunities. as well as being someone with a disability you are also an arab american and another way you've tried to use your comedy is you've tried to normalise the perceptions of muslims when many are really seeking to demonise them. in 2003, you co—founded the new york arab american comedy festival and you travelled all over the world to showcase the talents of arab americans right across the entertainment industry. do you feel that arabs or muslims in the entertainment industry are also getting a raw deal? yeah. i mean, starting off with arabs, right, because arab and muslim isn't synonymous. arabs were trailblazers in american comedy. we have danny thomas, jamie far. we were these great comedic figures. post 911 we became caricatures of terrorists and nothing more and so that was something i was really concerned about shifting and giving arabs the opportunity to be seen on screen as something other than a taxi driver or terrorist. but also being a person of colour is a challenge and arab is considered a person of colour, so you have to break through that barrier. but... i was going to say, couldn't it be an advantage? one arab actor said recently that when he complained about being depicted as a terrorist and saying that this was racial profiling he was told, you're lucky and you can use your ethnicity as a play card in an industry in which white actors are overlooked. that's an obscene comment, that people even consider that being a minority in hollywood is a good thing. it's not. we are still completely outnumbered. but you do quite well. it's notjust...i mean omar sharif, the late omar sharif, there's selma hayek, who's got arab heritage, there's wendie malick, tony shalhoub, rami malek won an emmy for the thriller mr robot. there are some who've made their names. so rami malek was put on screen by an arab. wendie and tony, definitely trailblazers. people break through, no matter who they are. there are always exceptions to the rule. but the reality is i haven't been given that opportunity. i had to write my own tv show to get on television. i have a deal from my own sitcom called if i can can with universal studios. i couldn't even get a guest role to play before i stared on my own show. that's how wants discrimination there is. so when we have breakthrough stars, people who defy the odds, it's because they defy the odds. it's not because there are genuinely more opportunities for minorities than white people on television. especially with disability. you said arab and muslim of course are not synonymous, and you are absolutely right, of course, but when it comes to the way muslims are perceived the american actor samuel ljackson says young muslim americans need to start telling their stories in the same way that african—americans fought and found ways to make films about their lives and experiences. do you see people doing that? is it happening? i do. i absolutely see people doing that and i'm one of the people who is doing that. and i think i have a real privilege as a muslim because as a muslim woman i am not what people picture when they think of a muslim woman, but i represent a lot of other muslim women. not every muslim woman chooses to cover. most muslim women are not being oppressed in america, where i live and where i grew up. so i think it's a great opportunity for me to have written a show with a muslim family as a centrepiece, where the father is devout, the mother is a doctor who doesn't believe in god, to show that muslims are again not a monolith. we are not all these one note screaming terrorists that we are depicted as on television, that muslim women do look like me, that you can be devout and have faith, and still live ioo% acclimated to the american lifestyle. i think right now they are trying to other us. so people often say to me, go back to your own country, and i say, where? newjersey? or they tell me i need to accept jesus and i say i do, he is a prophet in islam. can you accept he looks like me, not you? despite your initial comment about living in donald trump's america, when you look at all the opinion polls, arab americans, not necessarily muslim americans, are actually quite well integrated as us citizens. when you look at the indices they are better off than the average person in the population, they've got high education achievements and that sort of thing. so it's not all bad, is it? no, it's not all bad and again arab islam isn't a monolith, some of us are more integrated, some are less, but also 80% of arabs are christian and that has an impact on their ability to blend in. so you see the problem is more of a muslim one than an arab one? currently i do and that's different to a decade ago. right now it is absolutely terrifying to be muslim in america. why? we are under siege every day. hate against muslims is mainstream. courts agree with hate against muslims and we are not really given a voice to combat the negative images that are being displayed of us. do you experience it personally yourself? every single day. i feel the anti—muslim sentiment every single day. in what way? i was living in the new york area post 9/11 and i never felt this kind of hate and backlash and dehumanisation. i mean, first of all, i do find it very disturbing that an american president can invoke and incite violence against muslims without any ramifications. he wouldn't say that, hejust says... are you referring to the videos? i'm referring to the rhetoric and the videos. he would just say he is stating facts, that there's a problem with terrorism that is committed by people of the muslim faith and he is just stating facts. that's what he said. but he's not actually stating facts. as somebody who is watching it, i know that he is inciting violence against me. i know that he's ignoring the true dangers in america. i mean, in las vegas, 600 people were shot. that's a true risk. finally, you go to the palestinian territories, you've worked with refugees, bringing comedy as a kind of therapy to change people's lives. you've talked about how you use comedy for people with disabilities, muslim americans, that kind of thing. does comedy really have the power to do all that? to transform lives and attitudes in society? comedy absolutely has the power to transform lives. i always say if someone is laughing at you they are less likely to kill you, but also if someone is laughing they're more likely to understand something that they never understood before. because there's a difference between lecturing a person or yelling at a person for saying something ignorant and getting on stage and doing a joke and having them realise, oh—oh, i'm the bigot, i'm the one who didn't know the facts. i'm the one who judged them all. this woman is a muslim and clearly there's no reason for me to hate her, so maybe there's more like her. when i do it worldwide it's less about islam and more about the disability because when i do comedy worldwide i am putting out an image a lot of people have never seen. a functional, independent disabled person. and it lets them know they have the potential, or their child has the potential to excel in the same way that i have. maysoon zayid, thank you so much for coming on hardtalk. you are so welcome. and zeinab, if i can can, you can can! storm eleanor brought some damage and destruction to ireland and the uk. it has continued to move away into the baltic states as you can see here. it is weakening now. the next area a low pressure is showing signs of deepening. the next area of low pressure is showing signs of deepening. it could bring severe gales during the course of this afternoon. initially, it is going to send a weather front out ahead of it. some of the rain will be fairly heavy and persistent over the overnight period and to start this morning. but further north and east, a dry and chilly start to the day with a little bit of frost and fog potentially in northern england and scotland. so, today, there's going to be that early—morning rain. then, the afternoon, winds pick up across the south. a wet note to start with this morning in the south—east, east anglia, pushing in to the north—east midlands. those rains behind the rain band picking up. the rain will be persistent and fairly heavy in northern england, pushing it to northern scotland and northern with elevation, we could be looking at some snow over the higher ground here. a dry and cold start in northern scotland. a bit of mist and fog around too. showers in the northern isles. that rain band will move north and grinds to a halt in the finals that rain band will move north and grinds to a halt in the far north of england, central and southern scotland, and northern ireland. behind that, gusty winds touching 60 miles per hour, maybe more in exposure in the south—west and the south—east. 12—13 degrees. a bit cooler further north. that area of low pressure moves away, on friday, then another feature coming off the atlantic. another spell of wet and fairly windy weather brought to our shores. snow to start in the northern hills. and then those winds picking up. some sunshine around as well. much more cold air begins to push into would scotland with an increasing chance of wintry showers. this pushes across the uk for the weekend. feeling distinctly cold. much, much colder. a strong wind. bitterly cold, in fact. sunshine around. wintry showers in eastern areas. 6—7 degrees at best. light winds across the board on sunday. but it is going to feel even colder despite there being plenty of sunshine. i'm rico hizon in singapore — the headlines. a nasty war of words in washington. president trump says his former strategist steve bannon has lost his mind after he accused mr trump's son and son—in—law of treason. i think that is a ridiculous accusation and one that i'm pretty sure we've addressed from here many times before. the un welcomes the use of a telephone hotline between north and south korea as relations between the two countries seem to improve. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: how one of the world's most sacred rivers — the ganges in india — is also one of the most—polluted, australia's air accident investigators try to raise the seaplane which crashed near sydney on new year. we'll have the latest from the scene.

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