Australias vice captain, david warner, likened the fort coming ashes series against england to war, saying that he was looking for hatred to motivate his team mates. Hyperbolic language, of course, but it gets under way in a few days from now. Our guest graeme swann knows all about pommie bashing. 18 of his matches were against the aussies, eight of them in australia. When he says the ashes are all in the mind, does he believe england are prepared for the mental challenge coming their way . Welcome to extra time. First test at brisbanes the gabba. They dont call it the gabba for nothing. Its like being in boundary control in front of the hostile fines . I wouldnt know, control in front of the hostile fines . Iwouldnt know, iwas control in front of the hostile fines . I wouldnt know, i was always sensible enough to be in the slips so sensible enough to be in the slips soi sensible enough to be in the slips so i wouldnt know it. But its true, the noise can be incredible. The whole stadium, its like a cake tin sort of thing. It enveloped the grounds and its all as one. Wasnt designed for the acoustic in a way . Maybe. I remember going out to bad there in 2010. I was the ball after stuart broad had become Peter Siddles hat trick. The noise was the most ferocious. Can you pick out the most ferocious. Can you pick out the insults . No. If you were on the boundary, you probably could . We a lwa ys boundary, you probably could . We always used to laugh about them, because theyre not particularly witty. The australian crowds, in fa ct, witty. The australian crowds, in fact, world crowds, havent got the self depricating wit that an english crowd has. If youve been to a Football Game and hear some of more intelligent things that are said, not saying that everything said at a Football Game is intelligent, but its not in the same league. As an englishman, youre able to sit back and laugh at how much further we are. Lets face it, if youve gone toa game are. Lets face it, if youve gone to a game of sportjust to shout abuse to the men in the middle, theres something missing in your life. Almost half of the 16man england squad have never experienced an ash ashes test before. How are they likely to cope with this new experience . You never know, its sink orswim. 0ne experience . You never know, its sink or swim. One thing that i hope that they remember and that i hope the Psychology Team have been drumming in is that it really doesnt matter. Everything going on, all the and voices and press intrusion, it doesnt matter at all. At the end of the day, when you stand there and the ball comes down there, it doesnt affect the ball in any way. Easy to say that in the atmosphere of a studio. It is, but once youre playing international sport, these are the things you should be able to control and the best players in the world should be able to control that and shut off all the exterior noise because once youve found a mechanism to cope with it, its not that hard to do. Well talk about psychology in a moment, but thinking about captain joe root. Hes only played in four tests in australia. He hasnt got much experience with with to inform the younger members of his squad, has he . Hes not. And i think every captain needs to use whatever his particular strengths are. Which would be what, forjoe . Particular strengths are. Which would be what, forjoe . Forjoe, its his body language, the way he plays the game. Hes a naturally aggressive batsman when hes at the crease. If he goes out and bats like that, puffs his chest out, takes on the aussie bowlers, the australians dont like people taking them on. The reason they sledge as a nation, the nations psych is to belittle and they want you to be a rabbit in the head lights and be a shrinking violet. They hate people to stand up to them and take them on in their own game. Joe does that, not with words, but with his actions. You saw that in the way he batted in the last ashes in england, in the first test match in cardiff. He was dropped and then he played a brilliant counterattacking, aggressive innings and scored 100. And the whole team feeds off that. They watch him play. So, all right, ifjoes doing it, hes our leader, we will follow. Thats what he needs to do in australia. Its almost like youre describing right now the strategy to counter a bully . Its exactly that. It is easy to say. If youve been bullied as a child, you go home and your mum and dad will say, sticks and bones may break your bones. But if theres a bully in the play ground, theres a real possibility that youll be physically hurt. You cant get physically hurt. You cant get physically hurt. You cant get physically hurt about a crowd shouting at you and your parentage, especially when most it is unfounded. You need to found a mechanism to get through it. Every sportsman at some stage has had horrific things shouted at them from the crowd. I think were actually getting towards a stage where the tolerance levels of those around the people accusing the crowd is raised and theyre people accusing the crowd is raised and they re not people accusing the crowd is raised and theyre not going to put up with that any more. Sorry, its fallen. Theyre not going to come up with physical and mental abuse thrown towards someones family members. Im glad you mentioned that, because i was going to ask you where the line gets crossed . I was going to ask you where the line gets crossed . Theres a huge thing thats put up before every International Cricket game on the board saying the icc will not tolerate any sort of abuse or aggression that discriminates because of skin colour, because of gender, sexual orientation. Basically, everything that you shouldnt, and rightly so. But of course. Shouldnt, and rightly so. But of course. But every insult is one of those things. And its lip service. Its put up on the board, but its not adhered to. Its to tick a box, as we all know in this world, a lot of people do that. They cover their own backs. It would be interesting if they actually followed through because a couple of crowds, there we re because a couple of crowds, there were 300 people left in the park on the first day there are a few things to counter that with. The threat of physical violence also, is pretty borderline. There was a famous occasion when Michael Clarke, australian batsman, who was captain at the time, said to your mate, Jimmy Anderson, get red for a broken, expletive, deleted, arm. Jimmy anderson, get red for a broken, expletive, deleted, armm any australian is going to threaten you on the feel, little Michael Clarke, bless him. Andjimmy didnt remember that. He doesnt stoop to threats like that. But it was only because it was picked up by the cameras, picked up by the stump line. And to be honest, the intrusion into the middle of the stump mics and cameras, Michael Clarke got a lot of criticism for that. Thats been happening for 35, even longer, even a book that i wrote about it, its been happening for 100 years. And as media, if youre then putting it out to the crowd but then blaming the players, its actually your responsibility. The director had the choice when he heard that to not put it out on air, but he chose to. Hes a producer and he has to be quick with the microphone, thats the point. Theres no need for the microphone there if you ask me. Because things do get said. Stupid things, in jokes. Remember when england played india a few years ago and they were joking about cars, about porsches and someone in the media said that england players are trying to degrade their indian counterparts and being elitist, saying, we drive porsches. What they didnt realise is that all the indian players were multimillionaires and the english players were not. What the english players were not. What the english players were not. What the english players were doing was trying to get free product sent to them because somebody mentioned that a champagne bottle was sent to them in the change room. And they said, i wouldnt mind getting a porsche or a lambert theres always or a or a porsche. Youve given it and youve obviously taken it as well. In terms of your hip trade of sledging remarks, i suppose, of your hip trade of sledging remarks, isuppose, the of your hip trade of sledging remarks, i suppose, the point is, theyve got to be funny . Well, the thing is with sledging, a huge thing is made of it. It happens so few and far between on the field, funny things. And theyre brilliant for afternoon speeches and all the ones ive got, i cant say any of them on the tv. I very rarely said anything asa spin the tv. I very rarely said anything as a spin bowler. If i swore at someone, i couldnt bowl the next one. I kept my mouth shut. But you do get a few things said to you. But none of them are funny. Some of the old stories are funny. This is the media hyping things up. We live in a day of 24 7 news and something has to be interesting and you said at the top of the programme about david warner saying that he wants war and hatred. That is just a player whos buying into this pathetic hyperbole thats been built around the ashes, especially around the time of november 11, to come around with comments like that is mind blowingly naive and stupid. I sincerely hope he regrets it all because its mind blowingly out of order. Its not war, its not hatred. If you hate someone because theyre from australia, or an australian hates someone because theyre from england, you really do have to have a strong look at yourself in the mirror. Anyway, it goes on to a lesser or greater degree, and in a sense, its all about preparing yourself, mentally, for that kind of atmosphere. Youve been fairly outspoken on how england set up, has failed to properly address this aspect of test cricket. You said you believe that english cricket has too long gone away from the strengthening, it wont make a difference if the players mind is not clear and positive. Difference if the players mind is not clear and positivelj difference if the players mind is not clear and positive. I think this is cricket on the whole. 0nce not clear and positive. I think this is cricket on the whole. Once you get to the level of test cricket, that top level, that superlative level, technically youre able to do that. Physically youre Strong Enough to play it. 90 of test cricket is in you are why head and youve got to find ways of working out exactly coping mechanisms for so called pressure. Out exactly coping mechanisms for socalled pressure. Would you say england are behind the other nations in this . I dont know any nation whos ahead or behind. Mental illness, lets face it, until very recently, has had a real stigma attached to it. Someone was like the village idiot, stay away from him. But now people are realising, its not your fault if youre mentally ill, how can we aggress that . And because of Mental Illness having a stigma, in this country especially, and america is very different. You know over there, they see shrinks, psychologists, not for bad things. They see them anyway for good things, for positive reasons. Thats what sport should do. I truly believe thats what cricket should do. If youve got someone good enough to get to that top level, all you can say is technically, we have batting, bowling, fielding, massage therapists, bus drivers, security. I think there should be a team of psychologists, tip no Torres Strait islanders hypnotists. They will get out there and succeed. So youre speaking up here for the benefits of psychology. What about you . Have you understaken it . And if so, how useful was it . I never thought i did. I mean, we had psychologists, mark boden. But i never found anything with him that worked especially well for me. I always found myself fairly blessed that i didnt need it, or so i thought. But others did . I used to go around the change room and see people visibly nervous before the days play and i tended to gravitate towards the people who werent nervous. So Alastair Cook and Jimmy Anderson we re Alastair Cook and Jimmy Anderson were my closest in the dressing room because they didnt seem bothered at all. I liked that. It was good for the soul. Thats me as well. It was only the first day i walked into the 0val in london as a journalist for bbc, rather than a player, as i walked through the gate, the physical difference. I mean, it was like there was no weight on my shoulder. I breezed into the ground. And at that point, realised why id done well throughout my career because id convinced myself that it didnt matter, that i wasnt bothered. 0f didnt matter, that i wasnt bothered. Of course it does, it did. Its a big deal, youre on tv and nerves are natural and can sometimes propel you to a good performance . The people who use nerves to propel them to a good performance are the people who have got it cracked. Nerves or pressure, its the same thing. A feeling of uneasiness. Youre not settled, youre not in your comfort zone. But it can all be channelled in a positive way. I was quite lucky. I managed to do it by convincing myself that i couldnt give a monkeys. This is fine. A walk in the park. The sun will come up tomorrow. But i surrounded myself with people who inflated my tyres, who talked exactly the same way. My spin bowling coach, the greatest man ive ever met. Greatest coach. Never spoke technically. We never talked about spin bowling, ever. All hed say is, wed stand there and say, mr swann, at the end of the day, if you dont get any wickets, who cares, youve got a beautiful wife and children and the sun will come up tomorrow, and hes absolutely right. Lets try to get a field for the balance of power on the field, in terms of batting and bowling in the forthcoming series. Australia are the favourites, theyve been pretty much so from the start. Then a number of injuries, of course, both pre tour and during the tour to the england squad. And thats why the former australian captain saying, this tour is shaping up as a replica of the disastrous 2002 2003 campaign. It has all the hallmarks ofafamiliar campaign. It has all the hallmarks of a familiar english horror story. There you go. Thats the australian psych i was talking about earlier. Build it up, get the english players to to believe that. Theres no truth in that . Put it this way. If this Australian Team came to england now, england would be Firm Favourites because the ball will swing in england. The australian batsmen are very poor against the swinging ball, hence the last english ashes, the ball swung in three test matches. England entrepeneursed australia in those game. The two games where it didnt swing, where the conditions we re didnt swing, where the conditions were similar to australia, australia won those two games. Hence, australia are favourites in australia because the ball wont swing. Their batsmen are clueless when the ball swings through the air. Theyre very good players when its up and down. Steve smith, especially. The best player in the world against a ball. Not even in the top 20 there. Theres a view and maybe you expressed it yourself. Smith and david warner really are all that theyve got to rely on, but then of course, england only have Alastair Cook and joe root. You could argue that the top fives are similar. Theyve got two world class players in both top fives. The captain and a left handed opener. 0bviously cook and warner are different players but they bring the same sort of thing to a team experience, runs in the bank. Both teams have got three positions. They havent fully been nailed down. Fairly young, inexperienced players. Players who need a big ashes to prove themselves, to concrete themselves a place in the team. Where england are very much stronger than australia, in my view, is batting from 6, 7, 8, 99, with stokes, wokes, ali. Australia cant even match england in that department for runs, so that could be an area where england look to exploit australia. What about ben stokes who is obviously facing an allegation . How much will he be missed . A great deal. He is genuinely the best cricketer in the world at the moment, as it stands, with the bat and ball. You could add you could argue he is the best batter and the best bowler. Australia try and beat you down, hyperbole, statements everywhere, peacocks sticking their tails out. Ben stokes is based by that at all. Without any thing, he would inspire others. You describe for me are happy, productive dressing room. It is one doesnt feel it can lose any situation. We had that in 201011. Feel it can lose any situation. We had that in 2010 11. We were bowled out for 230 one the first day. Australia batted well and got a big lead of 200. We then got 517 1. We we re lead of 200. We then got 517 1. We were buoyed by it. They cant get us out. They are shattered out there. They are clueless, out of ideas. The crowd have deserted them and they have turned on their own boulders. That permeates through a dressing room. that permeates through a dressing room. Bowlers. They are cheering for us now. 0s liken it to the crowd in rocky for that start screaming. Rocky iv. In rocky for that start screaming. Rocky iv. What about Kevin Pietersens relationship with you and some of its team. It has been in the Public Domain for some time. Water under the bridge but the fact is you will be sharing a media facilities in australia. You are both working the tv. He is certainly going to be there. How is it going to go . We have never been friends. We had a professional relationship when we played because he was a world class player to have in the team. 0il he was a world class player to have in the team. Oil was wanted him in the team. Especially when he was tried to write some of the roles. I always wanted him. We do play any more. I dont see the point in holding grudges. You refer to him in your book via a compliment about australias matthew hayden. You say that a ten pitt myatt is everything that a ten pitt myatt is everything that kept was not. Epitomised. That a ten pitt myatt is everything that kept was not. Epitomisedm is taken a bit out of context. A lot of the context was praise for peterson. The whole fallout, i wasnt a part of it. I had left. I cant honestly talk. The two things i have had, very one sided opinions, everywhere a member of the teen talk about the situation. Ive not heard kevins side of it. He might be com pletely kevins side of it. He might be completely in the right and everybody else in the wrong. Completely in the right and everybody else in the wrongm completely in the right and everybody else in the wrong. It is how you create a productive dressing room. We have been a little bit down this path already. A management team, a captain, hast to kind of lend, i su