In the united states, the sheriff has always had a special status as the defender of their community, the embodiment of law, justice and the american way. But sheriffs can be politically controversial figures too. None more so than my guest today, joe arpaio, sheriff of Maricopa County arizona for 2h years until 2016. A self styled tough guy, convicted of criminal contempt and controversially pardoned by President Donald Trump in august. Did joe arpaio betray the American Values he pledged to uphold . Joe arpaio, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Its great to have you on the show. Of course you are not longer wearing the sheriffs badge after nearly a quarter of the century. Is it now time for you to acknowledge the mistakes he made while in office . Well, you know im a big frank sinatra, my way the song, he always says regrets ive had a few. If you talk about mistakes, everyone makes mistakes. By mistakes, everyone makes mistakes. By the way, i want to thank your country. You mentioned the elected sheriff, which originated years and yea rs sheriff, which originated years and years ago. It came to the us, the western sheriff. We now have 3000. Chief Law Enforcement officer for the county. So i am very proud to have spent 2a years serving the people. No one would doubt your success people. No one would doubt your success in terms of re elections. I believe you were re elected five times. But nobody in Maricopa County chose you, elected you, to violate the constitution, but that is clearly what you ended up doing and im just wondering whether you are prepared to say sorry for that now. Idid not prepared to say sorry for that now. I did not violate the constitution. It is an issue that a judge decided to repeat or report during a trial, so we are to repeat or report during a trial, so we are appealing that. This is a misdemeanour. At the same the same time you can get for barking dogs. It took eight years when 0bama and the attorney general went after me. After 60 days taking over. Here we are at the end on a misdemeanour, a contempt of court, and this chapter is not over yet, believe me, because the truth will come out very soon. Right. But when you suggest to me that theres something political at the heart of this, i would simply reply to you that the keyjudgement in case was surely that from the District Court in 2013, handed down byjudge murray snow, unknown conservative, appointed to his post by George W Bush, and he is the one who says the evidence clearly demonstrates that your office, the Sheriffs Office in Maricopa County, said what happened was unconstitutional. Well in that. After that there was no violation. Prior to that we have the authority in the Us Government to act as immigration officers. So that was his decision and then he wanted to make sure that he would do everything to get me out of office, according to his wife. Theres so much involved in this that im not going to talk about it now. But youll be hearing about the real story about the judicial system and how they went after this sheriff, took them eight years on a contempt of court for a small crime. Hang ona minute, of court for a small crime. Hang on a minute, sheriff, ifi of court for a small crime. Hang on a minute, sheriff, if i can still call you sheriff, i think i can. Hang ona call you sheriff, i think i can. Hang on a minute. As the chief lawman in Maricopa County i cant imagine what possessed you to consistently flout the order of the court and to end up in contempt. You we re court and to end up in contempt. You were the lawman. How could you defy the authority of a court . First of all, there was no intention. Thats all, there was no intention. Thats a civil case you are talking about with snow. The conviction had to do with snow. The conviction had to do with a criminal misdemeanour charge. Think of that. One judge refused to give mea think of that. One judge refused to give me a jury. A wrong charge. I can go on and on. On contempt of court. It had nothing to do with racial profile or anything regarding the profiling, if you want to call it that. I do. I do want to call it. | it that. I do. I do want to call it. Ido it that. I do. I do want to call it. I do want to call it profiling because a part of this case, for those who dont know, are the orders you gave your men to specifically target latinos when it came to police stops on the basis that you we re police stops on the basis that you were looking for it seems in legal immigrants, ina were looking for it seems in legal immigrants, in a way that the courts decided was completely in contravention of the constitution. Many people in your own county saw your activities as fundamentally racist. Thats not true. When you say. Either way, i racist. Thats not true. When you say. Eitherway, i keep racist. Thats not true. When you say. Either way, i keep getting re elected so evidently the people think im doing a job and defending them and going after the criminals. Im not going to get into everything on this case, let me say this we had the authority under the federal government to act as immigration officers. We dontjust pick up people on the street because of the colour of their skin. When you arrest people on any charge and they happen to be here illegally, of course we would turn them over to the government, where they would in most cases be deported. You were convicted. Im not going to keep talking about this case because it is not over yet. I am appealing this misdemeanour conviction of contempt of court and then i will be speaking out so you and everybody else will know how a judicial system is somewhat corrupt. When you mention thejudge was somewhat corrupt. When you mention the judge was conservative, appointed by bush, actually that was at the tail end, recommended by a certain us senator, i dont care. Ifi certain us senator, i dont care. If i may say so, the point surely is this. You have a criminal record now. You say you are peeling and of course you have been pardoned. But i wa nt to course you have been pardoned. But i want to get to the heart of the matter, which is the impact of that pa rt matter, which is the impact of that part of which was issued by Donald Trumpa part of which was issued by donald trump a couple of months ago. Did you see that as payback for the staunch support that you gave to donald trump from the very beginning of his campaign . I did not ask for the pardon, he decided to do it when he heard the fax of this case. I welcome that pardon. I was with him from day one, july, 2015, and ill be with him to the end. It had nothing to do with the pardon. That was a right end he did. Im not guilty. Thing he did. I will continue to fight. You say i have a criminal record. I do because of the latest decision of anotherjudge on that contempt of court, so well appeal that. Sheriff, that contempt of court, so well appealthat. Sheriff, have you paused for a second is to consider the impact of the pardon on some of the impact of the pardon on some of the people who were victimised by your officers during that period when you were the sheriff of Maricopa County . How do you think they feel about your part . Ioanna how they feel. I dont know. There are those who believe that people can come into this country illegally and get by with it, so maybe we should also look at all those hundreds and thousands that have violated the constitution, have come into this country illegally with a High Percentage committing other crimes and look at that. When you say. Wait a minute. When you say how the victims feel, where are all the victims . And see. I didnt see any victims go to court. I will tell you about one victim. 0ne i will tell you about one victim. One man who lives in phoenix, he was a plaintiff in the aclu Class Action Lawsuit against Maricopa County. After you are pardoned he said this. I pardoning him, that is you, trump is saying to the nation that it is 0k to insult another brace or another culture. Instead of making america great, trump is making america great, trump is making america a lot more divided, just likejoe arpaio did here in phoenix. Well, when you talk about one person or to people who complained, im not going to get into that case on a probable cause, but when you have one or two, where is the uproar . Where are all the victims . Not even appearing in court. You want more. Ill give you more. The mayor of phoenix. You know what he said after the pardon . He says, this pardon of arpaio was a slap in the face to the people of Maricopa County, especially the Latina Community and all of those he victimised, systematically and illegally violating their civil rights. That a mayor just violating their civil rights. That a mayorjust running for office. This is all politics, with him speaking out. He ought to worry about his Police Department and enforcing the law, which the Supreme Court said we can do, or Law Enforcement. So one of going to get into the mayor. He is speaking out now because he wants to run for congress. You are picking out a couple of people who made their statements for political reasons, without knowing all the fa cts. Reasons, without knowing all the facts. Im not blaming you for that. Thanks for not blaming me. I mean, as you may recall, i came to visit you a few years ago in maricopa cou nty you a few years ago in Maricopa County and he very kindly showed me around some of your installations, including the tent city. I put this point you. Now that you are no longer sheriff, maybe you can reflect a little bit on some of the things you did. In 2008 you are caught on video referring to your tent city as a concentration camp. You must regret that now . tent city as a concentration camp. You must regret that now . I dont regret it. I made one statement when i was leading the Italian American clu b i was leading the Italian American club and there was a crowd of demonstrators. It was everywhere i went we had demonstrators. When you know there are many critics of yours in your own county who feel that your record is racist, to refer to your record is racist, to refer to your own initiative, the tent city where more than 1000 prisoners were kept and sometimes in 130 fahrenheit heat, referring to it as a concentration camp says something about yourjudgement. Let me say i am very proud of the tent city that start at 3a years ago. Its been a great programme, a great deterrent, because many, many people do not violate the law here because they do not want to end up in tent city. Let me say this, including your country, in our country fighting. Fighting. Al sultan is fighting for our countries and they re fighting. Al sultan is fighting for our countries and theyre living in tents. So when you are going to complain about convicted, they are all convicted, serving some time in tent city and we havent had that many problems. One of the greatest programmes in this country. So a lot of people dont like it. We still get people who thanked me about it. Ifi get people who thanked me about it. If i may say so, you have had a lot of problems. You had a justice in pa rt of problems. You had a justice in Part Department investigation we with serious problems, including latina people being denied basic hi basic services and you also had a high suicide rate in yourjails. The amount of suicides as a proportion of overall debts in the jail system is extraordinary. 24 . Why do you think that was . Thats all wrong. You are reading from other periodicals. You are way off base. We havent had 24 suicides. We run a safe jail system and im going to tell you another thing. Probably the safest jail system in the tell you another thing. Probably the safestjail system in the country. When you really analyse the truth and starts. Im quoting you stop that come from various officials apartments. Not ready for of all prisoners, im saying 24 of those in yourjails were said to be suicides. Are you denying that . Gyan. 0f suicides. Are you denying that . Gyan. Of course i am. Of course i am. They say 200 people have died or are suing me, thats not true. The Justice Department did look into it, we alleviated that problem. So if its so bad in 2a years, how come ive never been charged with anything . Think of that. You have been, we said that already. That was contempt of court. It has nothing to do with any charges, criminal charges, that was contempt of court because the judge said i did not follow his order. That is the only charge in 2a years, a misdemeanour. Do you happen to know how much the various lawsuits and pay outs were given during your regime as sheriff over 2a years, how much it amounted to . It came down to the taxpayer, arizona taxpayers. Do you know what it was . the taxpayer, arizona taxpayers. Do you know what it was . I would say maybe 100 million. 140 million 0k. Duvet that over 24 years. We will put our record against any Law Enforcement agency in this country divide. This is very difficult to get the story, the true facts, out. You are hitting me with all of these questions. Unfortunately, you dont have the right information. But thats ok. I am glad to talk to you. And i am glad to talk to you as well. The thing is, sheriff, you did literally adopt the profile of toughest sheriff in america. You also took a stand on other issues that had nothing to do with the county, and one of which is youre adamant assistance, the insistence that barack adamant assistance, the insistence that ba rack 0bama adamant assistance, the insistence that barack 0bama was not an american, you said he was from somewhere else. You are wrong. I never questioned where he was born. From the first day, i said we would investigate a false government document. I dont care where he came from. It is a false birth certificate, official document. Get the story straight. Not so long ago, you and your staff came out with your findings, you and your staff came out with yourfindings, as you and your staff came out with your findings, as you you and your staff came out with yourfindings, as you put you and your staff came out with your findings, as you put it, you and your staff came out with yourfindings, as you put it, from a five year investigation which you say proved barack 0bamas birth certificate was a fake, you talked about forgery on the document. My question really is, why was the sheriff of the county doing this . Because the people of this county came to me and wanted me to look into the investigation since the federal government, no one, would develop and look at that investigation. It had to do with the election process which people do vote in this county as well for president of the united states. So i took this on struck it ago after someone took this on struck it ago after someone with a false government document. Simply to go after. I am not done with it yet. Would you call yourself a republican . Are you mma of the Republican Party . Yes, i am. It is interesting to meet. If we are going to talk about your political impact, and i think we have to, because you have chosen to be such a high profile figure, why is it so many fellow republicans of the highest profile, including john mccain, paul ryan, all of them have condemned you, and in particular, condemned you, and in particular, condemned donald trump for pardoning you . That is the political situation. You named three orfour that dont like the president. 0k . But what about everybody else who supports me on the party . The people of this country support me. You have a few politicians who hate the president and will say anything to embarrass the president. So let them do it. Itjust strikes me there might be something deeper than that going on. Is it possible that a lot of republicans look at you and your profile, your message, and the impact, and they see someone who is toxic to their efforts to reach out toxic to their efforts to reach out to the minority and the fast growing latino population of the us . to the minority and the fast growing latino population of the us . I dont know. You say these republicans. I will tell you four candidates who visited the city. I have great support. People come to me every time and say run for president , including 2012. They come to me, including 2012. They come to me, including this time around, they wa nt including this time around, they want my endorsement. Inevitably, the Republican Party still wants my endorsement even after this misdemeanour conviction. They still wa nt misdemeanour conviction. They still want my endorsement. You say that. Let me quote you mike, a Republican Co nsulta nt let me quote you mike, a Republican Consultant in california, after you went to a fundraiser event in fresno a month or so ago, i believe, this is what he said. It is an unmitigated disaster to have him as a neighbour. It is beyond belief a man convicted of racial profiling is held up as a man of note in the party of Abraham Lincoln and ronald reagan. 300 republicans showed up to hear me speak. You can quote one or two of the people all you want, the majority of republicans support me. Because you are a committed republican. How do you think the republican. How do you think the Republican Party will reach out to this demographic, the latino community, which even in your state of arizona is growing exponentially. They believe that by 2023, minorities will be the majority in your own home state of arizona. You republicans need to address that, but it seems like you are not addressing that at all. but it seems like you are not addressing that at all. I am a law enforcer. I spend 55 years, including working in england and turkey as the head of federal us enforcement. Mexico city, i was a director to be south america, texas, arizona. Director. No one talks about that. I am an equal opportunity Law Enforcement person. I lock everyone up. Republicans, democrats, anyone. Naturally, you have to be a politician to get