think about releasing me. i thought that was bordering on blackmail. we'll hear from eniola aluko's best friend — former england player leanne sanderson, who's calling for the men at the top to resign. and the former boss of kids company tells us she has nothing to be sorry for over the collapse of her charity. you are not going to apologise to the children let down? money that you wasted? the children let down? money that you wasted 7 i the children let down? money that you wasted? i do not think we wasted money. why are you assuming we wasted money? this is charity money, donations. it is a minor detail. it is not a minor detail. hello. welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. the latest breaking news and stories through the morning. later we will hear from through the morning. later we will hearfrom sir tom jones, through the morning. later we will hear from sir tom jones, who says through the morning. later we will hearfrom sir tom jones, who says he was sexually harassed at the start of his career. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today — theresa may has written an open letter to eu citizens living in the uk promising to make it as easy as possible for them to continue to live here after brexit. the prime minister will address eu leaders at a summit in brussels at which they're expected to confirm they're not yet ready to open talks with britain about a post—brexit trade deal. the next opportunity to begin negotiations on the relationship will be in december. one of the main brexit pressure groups, leave means leave, has urged mrs may to tell the eu leaders that the uk is prepared to walk away from talks with no deal, if they continue to refuse to discuss trade. our political guru, norman smith is at westminster. there is pressure on mrs may from all sides. another day, another dinner in brussels where mrs may will try to get eu leaders to move to trade talks but we already pretty much know they will say no, because, well, they are after more money, but just as mrs may is getting a hard time from eu leaders, at westminster, tory brexiteers are deliberately cranking up the pressure on mrs may to accept no deal. they have written to her and said look, at the dinner tonight, she ought to issue an ultimatum and in effect said to eu leaders if you are not ready to discuss trade, we are not ready to discuss trade, we are out of here, entered negotiations, and we will move onto world trade organisation terms. what is interesting, previously tory brexiteers always suggested we would be better off getting a deal with the eu. now they have started to make the case for life without a deal saying at least it would provide certainty for business and we would not be stuck in negotiations, we could go out on strike deals with other countries, with nothing to be frightened. mrs may is in a bit of a jam, getting pressed by the eu to give more money and pressed by brexiteers to walk out of the door. norman, you. now the rest of the morning's news. good morning. a second and final deadline, for catalonia to confirm whether or not it is breaking away from spain, hasjust expired. the spanish government wants the catalan leader, carles puigdemont, to retract a declaration of independence he made last week, in response to a referendum regarded by madrid as illegal. it is understood that the head of the regional parliament will press ahead with independence if madrid takes step to impose direct rule. bbc news has uncovered evidence that bereaved families are intervening to prevent organ donations despite the express wishes of their dead relatives. more than 500 cases have been documented over the past five years and the service said the most common reasons for families overriding wishes is the transparent process ta kes too wishes is the transparent process takes too long. it's being described as the world's fastest growing humanitarian crisis. more than half a million rohingya muslims have fled their homes in myanmar where they'd faced a military offensive. hundreds of thousands are crossing the border into bangladesh where they are stranded with limited food and water. the us says it holds myanmar‘s army accountable for the deepening crisis and the united nations is urging bangladesh to speed up the vetting process so refugees can be moved to safety further inland. the risk of terrorists attempting to bring down airliners is greater than ever according to the the united states government. earlier this year, the us banned passengers carrying laptops and other devices in their hand luggage when travelling from 10 middle eastern airports. speaking ahead of a meeting of g7 interior ministers, the acting secretary of homeland security, elaine duke, said us authorities are working closely with the uk government to deal with the threat. millions of workers — particularly women — are trapped in low—paid jobs with little chance of escape, according to new research. a study for the social mobility commission found that one in four low—paid workers, which it defines as those earning below 8.25 per hour, were "permanently stuck" — with little chance of earning higher salaries. sir tom jones has told the bbc that he was sexually harassed at the start of his career. the singer said it only happened to him once but that the problem is widespread in the music industry. our arts and entertainment correspondent colin paterson reports. for more than 50 years, sir tom jones has played up his reputation as a sex symbol. but in an interview for 5live's afternoon edition for the series launch of the voice, he revealed he was sexually harassed by a man in the music industry and it happened at the start of his career in the 1960s. at the beginning, there were a few things like that. but you avoid it. good grief. what is tried on women is tried on men as well. he did tell other people about the proposition at the time and the incident was never repeated. it was only once, really. how did it make you feel? terrible. but you think, "i've got to get away from this person" and it can't be like this. sir tom jones had been giving his reaction to recent allegations and revelations surrounding the us film industry and said that, to him, it was an all—too—familiar story. things have always happened in the music industry as well. people complaining about publicists and different things. that they have been expected to get a record contractjust like they do to get a film contract. there has always been that element there — that people with power sometimes abuse it. he also said that when it came to the world of entertainment as a whole, he hopes that, as he put it, the cork was now out of the bottle and justice would be done. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. thank you. we will bring you a film about universal credit in a moment. chris on facebook says he does not wa nt to chris on facebook says he does not want to sound callous but there is no poverty in this country. nobody here knows what poverty really means and as the food, nobody gets hungry here, there are so many ways of getting food. please do not put all the blame on the government, i think they are too generous and people are taking advantage of issues coming from the media. the way they promote issues like this is always exaggerated and people affected jump onto the bandwagon and everything gets out of control. thank you for that. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text. you will be charged at the standard network rate. a remarkable hearing yesterday into mark sampson's time as england women's football manager. a lot of pressure on the roles of chairman greg clark and the chief executive and question marks over both of their futures. and question marks over both of theirfutures. senior and question marks over both of their futures. senior names at the fa spoke to a select committee in westminster and it was regarding their handling of bullying and racism claims levelled at the former england women's head coach mark sampson. evidence was preceded by an fa apology to players eni aluko and true spence, admitting mark sampson did make ill judged jokes true spence, admitting mark sampson did make illjudged jokes which amounted to discriminatory remarks. they said previously the statements did not happen. eni aluko said she felt vindicated. i am happy that the truth has finally come out. i am happy for myself as an is drew spence, leanne who came today. everyone who wanted this process to reflect some of the things that have happened to me for positive change in the future. there certainly were systemic failings historically that contributed to today's mess. i am not here to tell you it is the fa's finest hour. i am trying to be straight. the issue for me is, is our current chief executive and management team making it a lot better than it used to be? my firm understanding is yes. after that hearing, the chair damian collins said he had doubts as to whether the fa bosses of fit to stay on after what he called a shambolic performance and we will see what changes if any the fa decides to make. just after 9:30am we will speak to lianne sanderson. another win for manchester united. but a night to forget for the bevy keeper. yes on the pitch last night, three more british sides in action... manchester united got a i—nil win away at the portuguese champions but spare a thought for their 18—year—old goalkeeper mile svilar on his european debut. in fact he's the youngest keeper to ever play in the competition but his mistake allowed marcus rashford to give united their third straight win in the competition. afterwards though united's players — especially forward romelu lukaku — tried to lift the spirits of the clearly emotional youngster. chelsea manager antonio conte wasn't overly pleased as they gave away a 2—goal lead to draw 3—3 with roma at stamford bridge. the former manchester city striker edin dzeko scored twice for the italians before eden hazard managed to rescue a point for chelsea, who stay top of group c. it was always going to be a difficult night for scottish champions celtic, away at the german giants bayern munich. brendan rodgers side were comfortably beaten 3—nil — afterwards he said he'd rather play with an attacking mindset than sit in and defend for 90 minutes. not surejose mourinho would agree with him on that one. and a row about nfl players in the us and their rights to kneel is not going away. the nfl say they will not make players in the us stand for the national anthem. recent protests, where players took a knee to speak out against social and racial injustices stirred huge controversy. the nfl said yesterday they would like players to stand but will not punish them if they refuse to. that did not go down well with donald trump who tweeted. .. iam sure i am sure that one will go on and on in the united states. welcome to the programme. this programme has been told the roll out of universal credit is leaving people "near destitute" due to flaws in its design. intended to make claiming benefits more simple — the knock—on effect of a 6—week delay has led to huge problems for some. this morning one parent tells us her child was forced to search forfood in bins and anotherfather says he didn't eat for 3 days as they waited for their benefits to be paid. the government has rejected calls to pause the introduction of universal credit — the biggest change to the benefits system since the 1940s. labour had called on the prime minister to halt the rollout until problems with the system had been fixed. conservative mps were under orders to boycott a vote on the issue last night, meaning the government lost by 299 votes to none. it wasn't a binding vote, so ministers can ignore the outcome. 0ur reporterjohn 0wen has more. i've never struggled like this before in my life. i've never been in this situation where i could lose my home. you know, it's a big thing. i'll die on the streets. if i did get evicted, i don't know what i'll do. i don't know where to go for help. on a saturday, we were walking down the street, she was searching in bins for food because she was starving, she was ripping mcdonald's bags to see if there were any chips or anything on the floor. it was awful, broke my heart. the government's flagship benefit reform, universal credit, has been underfire due to the length of time new claimants have been forced to wait for their first payment. yesterday, the government suffered a symbolic defeat in parliament as opposition mps voted in favour of pausing the roll—out to the new system. although the result is not ultimately binding, it is further evidence of the mounting pressure on the government to change course. the introduction of universal credit in 2013 was billed as a radical simplification of the welfare system, consolidating six benefits into one, it came with the promise that it will always pay to be in work, because of claimants‘ income from universal credit will be reduced gradually as they earn more. in recent weeks, a dramatic expansion of the new system has been taking place. with claimants at around 50 job centres per month due to move on to universal credit. eventually, around 7 million households will be receiving universal credit payment. that as the roll—out gathers pace, this programme has heard stories of claimants being left for long periods without any income at all, resulting in threat of eviction, hunger and increased use of feedback. in theory, claimants should expect wait around 5—6 weeks for theirfirst payment, that includes a seven—day period in which new claimants are usually not entitled to any money at all, plus a one calendar month assessment period. but in reality, many new claimants are being forced to wait much longer. anna was moved onto universal credit from other benefits a few weeks ago, and she says that for her, the impact was devastating. they said you have to apply for universal credit but you have to do it online, so they made me do it online, and i applied for it. they said all the benefits are going to stop, child benefit, child tax credit, and income support. council tax, housing benefits are all going to stop until you get to your next payment. and they've turned round and said i have to wait between six weeks and three months before i get a payment. and so for the last two and a half weeks you have not had any money in at all. nothing whatsoever. how have things been for you in that time? very, very difficult. last weekend, we had no food. my five—year—old's last food was school dinners. 0n the saturday, we were walking down the street and she was searching in bins forfood because she was starving. she was ripping mcdonald's bags to see if there was any chips or anything on the floor. it was awful, broke my heart. sunday, there was no food, she was going to bed, her stomach was rumbling, "i'm hungry, i'm hungry, i'm hungry". and she had no food saturday and sunday, she went to school really hungry. you take her to bed and her tummy is rumbling, giving her water but she wants food and you can't go to the shop and steal. it's awful. i can't keep asking neighbours forfood. i shouldn't have to live like this, that's awful. i had to go to a food bank to get some food. without that, i would still be without food now. i don't know if i'm going to still have my house, pay my rent, the council tax is due, i don't know, it's my worst nightmare. what do i do next, to beg on the street to get some milk and bread? i don't want to do that either but it might come to the stage i have to. i have to. anna is looking for work but having been out of the job market for a long time whilst raising children, she says it's a real struggle. handing out cvs, no one is coming back to me, i'm with all the employment agencies, i've been to job fairs, trying to get to work because i want to earn my own money for my own kids, take them on holiday, like normal people but it's really hard. at my age as well, because i haven't worked and i don't have a lot of experience, but i really want to get back to work. hammersmith and fulham was one of the first parts of london where universal credit was tried for a select group of people. but it's only been fully implemented for all new claimants here since june last year. we've come to meet daphine who runs a food bank in the borough, and she says that in that time, they've experienced some big increases in demand for their services. it should be simpler, the reality is that it's the wait that's the problem. it's the last six months, the number of people who have come into the food bank has doubled. the amount of people who came in the six months of this financial year. it takes a good five or six weeks before you get your first universal credit payment. and for some of our clients, they are waiting 12 or 13 weeks. that's a really long time to wait for any kind of income to come into your bank account. and during that time, of course, during those six weeks minimum, people are developing potential rent arrears, debt, they are borrowing money from friends and family, they are struggling to play the gas and electric and other bills, and that's why this is such an urgent situation. now the government point out that it is possible to apply for an advance whilst you're waiting for the first instalment of universal credit, but that's just a loan and it will need to be paid back from future instalments. for some, the requirement to pay back an advance payment in instalments has itself resulted in them slipping into debt. here in ripponden, west yorkshire, brendan was able to get an advance payment when he applied for universal credit in june. but it wasn't enough to cover his living expenses and care of his seven—year—old son tobias who lives with him three days a week. it probably lasted me about two weeks, to be honest. and then i'm left with nothing. then you're hoping that what you've got is enough which it wasn't. like i said before, i've got a good family, they're helping out a lot, both my sisters. without them i'd be on my knees. i've gone without food for about three years. when my sister found out, she came straight over with my other sister and her husband took me to the shop and got me some food and gave me some money, put some electric in, here's some money. if you're ever like this again, phone us. i won't, because it's embarrassing. it's like oh my god, and then i have to look after tobias, make sure he's all right. and i don't want him to see me upset. so how do you manage all that, my brain is about to explode. like anna, brendan is looking for work but he has a range of disabilities to contend with. i've got the arthritis in my legs, hips, shoulders, hands. i've got epilepsy, got diabetes. and also i'm waiting for bariatric surgery. which will help with the pain in my legs, it will take that weight off. so i'm waiting for that. and because of a dispute surrounding whether his seven—year—old son should be registered as living at his address, brendan has not yet received the housing element of his universal credit. this, combined with the need to repay his advance, means he has slipped into significant rent arrears. and may even face eviction. i've never struggled like this before in my life. i've never been in the situation that i could lose my home. it's a big thing. i'll die on the streets, but if i do get evicted, i don't know what i'll do. i don't know where to go for help. it's 50-50. if i'm going to be homeless or not, where do i go? what i do? sell everything i've got? things i've had in my family for 50 years, my uncle left me this in his will, shall i sell that? the chess set. i can't do it. ijust can't do it and i don't know what to do. if my landlord says look, ok, we'll leave it at this if you pay the rent, that's fine. that's what i'm hoping for. i dare not think about the alternative. i dare not because i can't do it, i can't let my son suffer like that. he's a good kid. so i don't know, maybe, i daren't think that far ahead. kids... kids should not have to go through this. no one should, really. here in southampton, brian also moved on to universal credit in june. he took an advance payment but was still forced to make use of food banks whilst waiting for his first instalment. he doesn't own a computer and as a result, he finds using the new system which is internet—based, quite difficult. i knew it could be 6—7 weeks. and that was it, i can't do anything about it. and somewhere, i can't remember what i heard it, i could get advance payment if i struggled. i didn't know what i was going to get, the money, so they said you can have a small loan. all we can give you, the maximum is half. i eventually got £407. without food banks, i would have struggled. several months after his first claim, brian has also fallen into arrears with his rent and has only narrowly avoided eviction. he says he now has just £18 a week to spend on food and may lead to spend on food and may need to make use of food banks again. in westminster, senior labour backbencher frank field has been leading calls for a pause in the roll—out. he says that the new system has changed the very nature of the welfare state. up to universal credit, the whole aim of the welfare state was to prevent people falling into destitution. we have now got a benefit which at least for six weeks, maybe for ten or 12 or more, pays very little benefit, if any benefit at all. what we are seeing is people both increase the numbers that are hungry, increase in the numbers that can't pay their rent or don't pay. the numbers that are without fuel or light in their houses. and doing everything possible to prevent eviction. if you are at that point where you are fighting madly to keep your home, a roof over your head, even though you are hungry, even though you've got debts running up, even though you can't pay your rent, even though you have been cut off from sources of power, that is what i mean by destitution. those numbers are rising. but ministers insist that for most people, universal credit is working and that it has big advantages over the previous system. to understand why the government has been quite so determined to press ahead with universal credit, we came to the place where it was born, the centre for socialjustice. it's a think tank responsible for the original design of the policy. let's be under no illusions, this new system as it stands, is so much better than the old system. let's not pretend people weren't falling under rent arrears in the old system, or getting stuck out of work in welfare dependency. if you look at every study done by the 155 to the government, universal credit on the whole will lead to more people being in work of those people earning more money, and those people are more likely to stay in work because the way the system is designed this to support people in work notjust get them to work and leave them. that is the big transformation that universal credit will bring about. what we've seen under the old benefit system and the new ones rolling out is there are always some falling through the cracks and it is absolutely imperative that the government does all it can to stop that. one thing we think the government should look very closely at, to reduce the chance of that happening, is actually making the system slightly more generous than it is. when the centre for the social justice designed this system back in 2009, it was slightly more generous in terms of the amount of money that people would be given. so clearly we're seeing some teething problems, some implementation problems? and also you said the government should consider making the whole system more generous. but the six—week wait, the nominal six—week wait is built into the design of the system because universal credit is paid in arrears? doesn't that fundamentally misunderstand how people on the lowest incomes live, because they can't afford to wait for a whole month without any income at all? the majority of people in work are paid in arrears at the end of the month. actually, it completely make sense to make sure that the welfare system mirrors what life will be like when somebody is in work. there will be some people as you rightly said, for whom that won't work, they needed the money sooner, they haven't got the saving to wait for six weeks. for us, the most important part of this is the fact you can now get a benefit advance which is basically half of your first payment up front. within five working days or even on the day you come in if you really, really need it. of course, in some ways, that's not really a solution is it? people then have to pay back the money from subsequent payments so they still face the risk of rent arrears and all the rest. they do have to pay it back. it's worth bearing in mind, people have six—months to pay it back and all the money they get upfront, there's absolutely no interest paid on that whatsoever so it's a fairly fair system that i think is set up. the government did make one concession yesterday, by agreeing to make the helpline used by universal credit claimants free of charge. but despite rumours about a reduction in waiting time for payments, the government say they have no broader plans to change course. as a result, critics of the policy will no doubt continue to say that for people like brendan, anna and brian, that will likely spell more hardship as winter approaches. it's so distressing to hear of a child in britain searching inside bins forfood. child in britain searching inside bins for food. susan says she has a lwa ys bins for food. susan says she has always worked but thinks the roll of universal credit is appalling. these are some of the most vulnerable people in society. how they can go six weeks without payment is unthinkable. they don't have savings. brendan says he heard the e—mail about not being poverty in this country. he's wrong and needs to wa ke this country. he's wrong and needs to wake up. farrier says it shocking that people think poverty doesn't ‘s guest in this country. you'll contribute who said there is no poverty in britain is right. i have worked in the middle east, africa and the far east most of my life and so what real poverty is. the vast majority of people here have proper shelter and somewhere to live. in some third world countries there are people living in cardboard boxes. everybody here is entitled to decent medical service from the nhs. not many countries have anything like that. the pampered unspoiled people in this country should be grateful for what they have. the department for work and pensions told us... "no one who needs support should have to wait six weeks. when people apply for universal credit they are advised about the maximum advance they can receive, and that they can repay over six months. once we know someone needs an advance, they can get it within five days or on the same day if they are in urgent need." still to come... two years after the collapse of kids company, the charity's former boss tells us she has nothing to be sorry for. sir tom jones reveals that he experienced sexual harassment at the start of his musical career. time for the latest news — here's annita. theresa may has written an open letter to eu citizens living in the uk promising to make it as easy as possible for them to continue to live here after brexit. the letter was released as the prime minister travels to brussels for a summit with european leaders. they're expected to confirm they're not yet ready to open talks with britain about a post—brexit trade deal. catalonia's leader says the regional parliament could vote on a formal declaration of independence from spain if central government refuses to hold talks. in response spain has said it will trigger article 155 of the constitution. the catalan leader has ignored the deadline to drop a bit further independence. in a letter to the spanish by minister which was made public before the deadline he warns he will call a vote if the national government continues to impede dialogue. bbc news has uncovered evidence that bereaved families are intervening to prevent organ donations despite the express wishes of their dead relatives. more than 500 cases have been documented over the past five years. nhs blood and transplant says the most common reason for families overriding a loved—one's wishes, is that the donation process takes too long. it's being described as the world's fastest growing humanitarian crisis. more than half a million rohingya muslims have fled their homes in myanmar where they'd faced a military offensive. hundreds of thousands are crossing the border into bangladesh where they are stranded with limited food and water. the us says it holds myanmar‘s army accountable for the deepening crisis and the united nations is urging bangladesh to speed up the vetting process so refugees can be moved to safety further inland, sir tom jones has revealed that he was sexually harassed at the start of his career. whilst talking about recent revelations involving harvey weinstein, the singer said the incident had left him feeling "terrible" and that the problem is widespread in the music industry. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. some breaking news to do with crime figures in england and wales. figures for england and wales show the number of crimes recorded by police has increased by 13% year—on—year and violent crime went up year—on—year and violent crime went up 19%. they cover figures up to june. those from the office national statistics, police recorded crime has gone up 13% year—on—year and violent crime up 19%. and now sport. there are questions being asked today over the leadership of the football association. mp damian collins says the failure of senior figures to acknowledge their shortcomings in their handling of racism and bullying claims made by eni aluko raises doubts over their ability, to take the fa forward. chelsea let a 2—goal lead slip as roma came back to rescue a 3—3 to rescue a 3—3 draw in the champions league last night. manchester united beat benfica but celtic went down 3—nil at bayern munich. there will be changes for british number 1 johanna konta. she's split from her coach after less than a year and will not play again this year due to a foot injury. and ronnie o'sullivan managed to get the black trainers he needed to stay within snooker‘s english 0pen he had threatened to drop out of the tournament but he reached the third round with a 4—1 tournament but he reached the third round with a a—1win. we will be back after ten. there are calls this morning for the men at the top of the fa to resign following racially discriminatory remarks by former england women's boss mark sampson. a barrister ruled sampson made unacceptable "ill—judged attempts at humour" on two occasions to players eniola aluko and drew spence. chelsea striker eniola aluko accused english football's governing body of behaviour "bordering on blackmail" after claiming one told her it would release the second part of a payout over the mark sampson scandal if she publicly declared the governing body was not institutionally racist. here's some of what was said to mps yesterday. my overwhelming emotion really is just relief. because it has been a long process. i was always honest and truthful about those comments and about other comments that i have raised, and about the culture of the team under mark sampson. and so i feel vindicated. i have certainly felt isolated in terms of the process. i think i didn't want it to be as adversarial as it has become in terms of the football association versus eni aluko, if you like. i say in my statement that i have had a very good relationship with the football association up until two years ago. i had one meeting with martin glenn and he effectively suggested that if i wrote a statement, a favourable statement, saying the fa are not institutionally racist, then they would think about releasing the money. i felt that was bordering on blackmail. was that said to you verbally? that was in a meeting and was subsequently said in written correspondence with my lawyers. basically, where is the statement. i categorically refused to write any statement. the sacking of mark, in other words, needed to happen. at the same time, from what we have seen any evidence in the second investigation, this is a bigger problem. now they have got rid of mark, it doesn't mean everything can go on like nothing has happened. this is not something we have enjoyed. i love football, love being a pioneer for women's football, and for this to happen, the way it has happened, it didn't need to happen. if they had just shown the findings from what we found today, i don't think we would be sitting here now. thankfully we are, because we are able to force their hand and make them tell the truth, if that makes sense. with me now is lianne sanderson, who's played 50 times for england. and she was a key witness in the complaint. what was it like giving evidence in that room? it has been a long time coming. this has been ongoing in a year and a half at a lot of stress for myself and eni aluko lot of stress for myself and eni alu ko and we lot of stress for myself and eni aluko and we were prepared to go there and tell the truth. we were nervous. it was not something we looked forward to. it was something that needed to happen and it was a day of being able to get everything out there, answer questions people might not be clearer about because there has been stuff, grey areas, so yesterday was a time where i felt i was able to speak. i did not leave the room feeling i did not say everything i needed to say. ifelt it was an intense environment, certainly when the fa came in, you could sense, i honestly felt they we re could sense, i honestly felt they were on the back foot a little bit. and i think the committee were just asking questions that were there to be asked. afterwards, eni aluko said she felt vindicated. do you feel the truth is out? i do, it has been difficult, because eni has seen people calling her a liar. she had horrible messages, as did i, why am i whacking someone like that? she is one of my best friends but i would do that for any team—mate if i felt there was wrongdoing. for some reason it started to go downhill and i felt like i was reason it started to go downhill and ifelt like i was being reason it started to go downhill and i felt like i was being forced reason it started to go downhill and ifelt like i was being forced out. for eni, i thought she has not been treated in the right way and i don't like seeing your team—mates treated in the wrong way. i flew back to be there yesterday and would do it again, if necessary, to do the right thing. i want to explore with you that you felt you were forced out. do you think the men at the top of the fa should resign? there needs to bea the fa should resign? there needs to be a position in place where they have to be accountable. it is not my place to say they should resign but after what has happened there needs to be questions asked of them. they looked uncomfortable yesterday. a lot of the time the committee was asking questions and it was in co mforta ble asking questions and it was in comfortable because you could feel the tension. people could not believe what they were hearing. as i said, it was easy for us to go there because we were telling the truth all along. it felt like vindication because we felt we had not been listened to. had yesterday not happened, with the enquiry and the committee, iam not happened, with the enquiry and the committee, i am not sure the investigation findings came out the same day... they have had a lot of time to find out the investigations. the person did the second enquiry the right way and interviewed the right people. you say it is not your position to call on them to resign. asa position to call on them to resign. as a former player, former england international, should they consider their positions? i think so. we have two self reflect. last night i thought about what i did and whether i could have done better. i self reflect a nd i could have done better. i self reflect and i will do that time. i cannot answer for them but they have to ta ke cannot answer for them but they have to take a look at themselves and think of how this situation has been handled, because it has been handled shambolic lee and disgracefully, because it has made the national tea m because it has made the national team not look great. football is religion in this country, men and women's, and the way the fa has handled a lot of situations has not been unacceptable and hopefully, whoever is there, they can learn from what happened yesterday and the findings and how the situation has been treated. we do not want this to happen to somebody else. this was not about me, it was finding the truth and making people realise if you have a grievance you can bring it forward and not be ostracised from the team. i can understand why people do not raise issues because look at what happened to me and eni. it is the coach's prerogative to pick the team. i honestly do not believe they pick teams based on performances a lot of the time. it is based on favouritism and stuff like that, which i find hard to take. anybody seeing this, will know the chief executive said to eni aluko that she would only receive the second half of the settlement if she would only agree to say the fa is not institutionally racist. she would not do that. do you think it is? that is difficult to answer but i think there is a lot of bias and a lot of manipulation and i think they tried to stop this coming out. it did not need to get as messy. women's football has been dragged through the mud but if they had investigated it properly, we would have had those findings yesterday a year ago. i do not believe they wa nted year ago. i do not believe they wanted to get the truth additionally, otherwise they would have interviewed people in the room that was said. i have never heard of that, where you have witnesses you can ask questions and you do not ask the people in the room. ghosting. how do you react to the fact that a black actor was hired to act out behaviour for a role—playing exercise to teach players about lioness standards. eni aluko in her submission said she knows some england players were uncomfortable with the demonstration because they believed the actress was perpetrating a negative and unfair perception of eni aluko. this was only brought to my attention a couple of weeks ago and i was taken aback. it sounds like something... you cannot believe it happen. i would like to think it did not happen. it is something that needs to be looked into. it was not spoken about yesterday, yes it was in the report, but not spoken about, but for that to take place. in that environment i believe there is an element of fear. how others have not raised that happened is astonishing. whether it was your friend or not, that in itself is manipulation. what is the point of doing that? i was not there but i heard it happened. i do not know the facts and cannot comment poleon mat. if that happened and it seems like it did, —— i cannot comment on that. as you said under mark sampson, under the first year, it you were doing really well. you felt well treated. do you think he is racist? it is a difficult question i have been asked a number of times and i am mindful of saying what is the definition of racism? judging by the findings, kathryn newton found him not to be racist, but the comments he made were ill timed and ill mannered. i think people need to be mindful of how they say things and how it comes across. sometimes it is not their intention, but to deny it completely. people make mistakes but to deny it until now is an absolute joke. mark sampson was not sacked for discriminatory comments but inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour with female players in a previousjob at behaviour with female players in a previous job at bristol. do you want to know what happened?” previous job at bristol. do you want to know what happened? i think the public... it's in the public‘s best interests for them to know. at the end of the day it's notjust about myself, eni alu ko, end of the day it's notjust about myself, eni aluko, orthe end of the day it's notjust about myself, eni aluko, or the players who are there and not there. it's about people who are fans of the team, and they have a right to know what actually happened. i can't sit here and tell you what happened, i don't know exactly what happened, it might come out in the end, but i think it's in the public ‘s best interest to find out and for them to know. the people are fans of the team. a lot of the time people have to realise that's what the sacking was for. it wasn't for the racial allegations that were brought. they we re allegations that were brought. they were clear yesterday when they said that. i personally think it has played a part in it, but at the same time it wasn't the sole reason. finally, explain why you did feel forced out in the end from the england setup. it was a long time coming, but they forgot about my 50th cap in china. i spoke about that yesterday. that wasn't just a genuine mistake or human error? it was deliberate? it could have been, and at the time i thought it could have been. but the way things have panned out, and i had no contact with them. i found panned out, and i had no contact with them. ifound out panned out, and i had no contact with them. i found out on twitter that i hadn't been selected for a squad. the team has to go to team activities and i saw on instagram, i said to the team psychologist at the time, why am i not there? and he said, ididn't time, why am i not there? and he said, i didn't think you could make it. certain things happened along the way, i didn't want to believe i was forced out, but i think i was. finding out on twitter i wasn't selected for a squad, that was it, andi selected for a squad, that was it, and i have not been contacted since. since then i have had contact with people from the fa and they said if i was open to speaking with mark sampson over a year ago. i said of course i would, he is the national tea m course i would, he is the national team manager. it's a great honour to play for england, it's a massive moment, it's an honour. any player would want to play for england. you shouldn't lose your england career because you bring up a grievance. that's the point of yesterday, we feel there should be a place for people to go to file grievances without being ostracised or made to feel you have done something wrong. as eni alu ko's feel you have done something wrong. as eni aluko's friend, it's been totally disrespectful, the way she has been treated and the way it has been handled. i have my situation, but she is the original person who filed the grievances. she knew what happened to me and drew spence and anita. we all knew each other‘s stories. but not everybody at england had the same feelings and same story. i can understand why sometimes the players did not come out in support. you have seen what happens when you do, so i don't necessarily blame them for that. thank you very much. dwayne cska moscow articulates am honest and straight talking woman. paul says, it's time a woman led the fa. —— dwayne says, what an articulate... after ten o'clock in the former boss of kids company gives us her account of kids company gives us her account of what happened of the company after millions of pounds of public money was given to it. in breaking news, spain is to start suspending catalonia's autonomy on saturday after its leader threatened to declare independence. let's speak to tim willcox who's in barcelona. it was described as the nuclear option. a lot of people didn't think madrid would do so, but in the last half an hour the spanish government has invoked article 150 five. this is an article, part of the 1978 constitution, it's never been used before, but it effectively restores direct home rule to madrid for catalonia, one of 17 autonomous regions here in spain. it's a huge deal. it's a decision which will be very provocative as well. madrid says it has no option. to remind you of what happened on october the 1st here, there was a referendum held by the separatist movement and they said of the people who voted, 90% voted in favour of leaving spade on a turnout of 43%. the spanish government at the time said, you can't hold a referendum, it's unconstitutional. that referendum is illegal. they sent out national police, scenes of violence with people being pulled out a polling stations by their hair. 800 people we re stations by their hair. 800 people were reportedly injured. ever since then there has been moved and counter move from the catalan president, carles puigdemont, and spanish prime minister mariano rajoy. there was a meeting in parliament a few days ago where he declared independence for the country, spain said it was illegal, and then he immediately suspended it for dialogue. ten o'clock local time this morning, the spanish and asked it to revoke the declaration of independence and he said no. he said it was repressive and if there is no dialogue we will vote on it. so now for the first time since 1978 in the biggest constitutional crisis for the country since the failed coup attempt in 1981, we are in a position where madrid has imposed direct rule on catalonia. 0n saturday the spanish prime minister and cabinet will meet to decide exactly what they will do. it will mean the local police here being taken over mean the local police here being ta ken over by mean the local police here being taken over by the national police. all the ministries as well. it's a big moment for spain. could it lead to unrest, the like of which we saw around the voting in the referendum? fortu nately for around the voting in the referendum? fortunately for this area of spain, unlike the basque region, for example, there is no history of violent demonstration here. it's also worth pointing out that this region is completely divided about whether they want to separate from spain or not. so when you see demonstrations for the separatists, hundreds of thousands of people wanting to leave spain, a few days later you get thousands of people, who they say are the silent majority, who want to remain part of spain. i don't think we will see violence, but it's how madrid responds to it if there are large street protests. if they send the national police, and the tactics are heavy—handed, that's when you might see outbreaks of violence. but historically this region, despite the generations of fighting for independence, they have never really had an armed wing, like they did in the basque region with eta. let's hearfrom both sides now. in favour of catalonia's independence, we can speak to elena jimenez, from the pro—independence movement 0mnium cultural. against independence, we can speak to marcos sanchez from the convivencia civica catalan anti—separatist movement. what do you think of this? hello. can you hear me? yet. tell me what you think of the fact madrid is likely to impose direct rule on catalonia this weekend? and think it has already started imposing. let me change space because a lot of people are coming out here. i will come back to you in a minute. marcos, you are against independence. what do you think of the move from madrid?” think this move is too late. this movement has been allowed to disrespect the law for many years and we are now living with the consequences of this disrespecting of the law. tell us what you think of the law. tell us what you think of the law. tell us what you think of the move to impose direct rule on catalonia? they have already started this kind of thing. we are already repressed politically. we are also undermined economically. it has started prior to the invoking of this 155 article. what will change on saturday, i don't really know. cata la n on saturday, i don't really know. catalan society is asking for dialogue, and we are only receiving the answer of negative, negative, negative. marcos, what do you think will change in practical terms from saturday? i think nothing especial will change. as elena said before, the independents people are asking for dialogue. but it's not possible to have dialogue with somebody breaking the law. this is a history that has been allowed by the central government for many years now. the catalan government is constantly breaking the law during the last 45 years, constantly, and there has been no solution for this. dialogue with someone who doesn't recognise the law is impossible. thank you to you both for your reaction from barcelona. sir tom jones has told 5 live he was the subject of sexual harassment at the start of his career. asked about recent revelations in the film industry, sir tom says similar things had always happened in the music business, but were often covered up — something we've been reporting on this week. he's been talking to our entertainment correspondent colin paterson. things have always been happening in the music industry as well. people complaining about publicists, about what people have to do to get a record contract, in the same way to get a film contract. there's always been that element there that people with power sometimes abuse it. but they don't all abuse it, you know what i mean. there are good people, they're not all bad in the film industry or the record industry. it's just, you've got to sort of try and figure out... but then again if you're true to yourself, you know when somebody‘s doing something wrong, you know what i mean? you avoid it. you think, if i've got to do this, i don't want to do that so i'm not going to do it. that's it, unless you are actually physically held down, you know, i mean if somebody physically attacks you, then that's even worse, but just suggesting things and trying to manoeuvre you into certain situations, you just get out of there, you know, and shrug it off and say, it can't be the whole business, it's just some people. you never had anyone try it on you, did you? yes. really? at the beginning, yes, a few things like that, but, you know, you avoid it. good grief. yes. how did you get out? just walk out, you know what i mean. but that's. .. what is tried on women is tried on men as well. they try it on. but then again, not much though, it was only once. 0nce. how did it make you feel? terrible. but then you think well, you know i've got to get away from this person and this is not it, it can't be like this. i mean, you know, you should know that yourself, you don't do things just because you think, oh, i should do this, your own mind will tell you that. not only in show business but in anything you're in, you know. were you able to tell anyone? yeah, but it wasn't bad, you know, it was just somebody trying to, you know, there was a question and i said no thank you. tom jones speaking to colin paterson. we will have the latest news and sport in a moment. let's get the latest weather update with carol. doi do i need to put my central heating on yet or not? you don't. it's 15 or 16 at the moment, but you will need your brolly in the next few days. quite a bit of rain. there is some fog around, and there will be for the next hour, a fog warning for the east midlands, central and southern england and parts of east anglia. that is now starting to lift. 0n the other side of the coin, a lot of dry weather this morning with some of us seeing brightness but there is rain in the forecast. two bands of it, the first weather front in the east, the first weather front in the east, the low pressure coming in will keep rain in northern ireland during the day and transfer to western parts of the uk as well. but looking at isobars, the rain is strengthening. quite a cloudy and murky start to the day with rain in the south moving northwards, getting into northern england by the afternoon. limited amounts of sunshine. the band of rain coming across northern ireland infringing into other parts of the western uk. in northern ireland, it will hang around for much of the day if you have it. some issues with surface water flooding. and rain pouring in across wales and south—west england. green and yellow in the charts indicates the rain will be heavy. ahead of it, there will be heavy. ahead of it, there will be heavy. ahead of it, there will be a lot of crowd around. thick enough for the odd spot of rain but the other main band of rain pushing up the other main band of rain pushing up into northern england where again at times it could prove to be heavy. north—west england and parts of scotla nd north—west england and parts of scotland seen glimpses of sunshine. north—west scotland, crowding over in the afternoon with the arrival of the rain. behind the band of rain, the rain. behind the band of rain, the wind strengthening through the coast of wales and southern in bid for a time. the western end of the english channel, we will see coastal gales. as the whole system pushes towards the north sea, the rain around will tend to leak in, as will the wind. tomorrow morning we start off on the wind. tomorrow morning we start offona the wind. tomorrow morning we start off on a cloudy note with splashes off on a cloudy note with splashes of rain around. we will see more sunshine tomorrow then we will see today. in the west, the next system coming our way will introduce more wet and windy weather. that's courtesy of this area of low pressure moving across the whole of the uk on friday night and saturday, bringing wet and windy weather. the squeezing isobars, the strongest winds will again be across south wales, south—west england and around the english channel. gusts of 60 mph, locally 70. coupled with high tide and there will be large waves crashing on shore as the whole band continues to push north—east. hello, it's thursday. it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. welcome. more claims are made that universal credit will leave people near destitute. i've go without food about three days. my five—year—old's last food was school dinners. on the saturday we was school dinners. on the saturday we we re was school dinners. on the saturday we were walking down the street and she was searching in bins for food because she was starving. can these three men keep theirjobs after new evidence revealed the former england women's head coach mark sampson did racially abuse two players? lianne sanderson, a former england international, said they should consider their position. they have to look at themselves and think about how the situation has been handled, it has been handled pretty much disgracefully. and the former boss of collapsed charity kids company tells us that money wasn't wasted and she has nothing to apologise for. you are not going to apologise to the children let down? money you wasted? i the children let down? money you wasted ? i do the children let down? money you wasted? i do not think we wasted money. why are you assuming we wasted money? it is charity money, donations. it is a minor detail. it is not a minor detail. we'll see that full interview in just a moment. here's annita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. the spanish government says it will press ahead with steps to suspend the autonomy of catalonia. and impose direct rule. the catalan leader ca rles and impose direct rule. the catalan leader carles puigdemont ignored today's deadline to drop a bid for independence. in a letter to the spanish prime minister he warns he will call the vote if the national government continues what he called its repression. crime figures for england and wales show the number of crimes recorded by police has increased by 13% year—on—year. violent crime went up 19—percent. the data covers the 12 months to the end ofjune, compared with the same period the previous year. the figures were published by the office for national statistics. theresa may has written an open letter to eu citizens living in the uk promising to make it as easy as possible for them to continue to live here after brexit. the letter was released as the prime minister travels to brussels for a summit with european leaders. they are expected to say they are not yet ready to open talks with britain about a post—brexit trade deal. theresa may is holding talks with former us president bill clinton to discuss the continuing political deadlock in northern ireland. mr clinton arrived for the meeting with the prime minister in downing street following private talks earlier in the week with the main northern ireland party leaders in belfast. as president, mr clinton played a key role in helping to secure the 1998 good friday agreement which led to power—sharing at stormont. sir tom jones has told bbc news he believes the problem of sexual harassment is widespread in the music industry. the singer said he was propositioned when he was young and the incident left him feeling terrible. let me read some comments about universal credit. mick said well done for giving a balanced view of the new welfare roll—out. how refreshing. susan says, we treat animals better than some people on benefits. people who say there is no poverty in the uk need to come to liverpool with people on the streets with no food, shelter, nowhere to wash. i call that poverty. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. sport. following what has been described as a shambolic performance in front of mps, there are questions. mp damian colin says there are doubts about whether fa bosses are fit to take the association forward. in the champions league last night — chelsea gave away a healthy lead to end up with a 3—3 draw against roma at stamford bridge. it looks like —— johanna looks like ——johanna konta has split with her coach after losing her last five matches in a row. she is out for the rest of the year with an injury. the founder of kids company has insisted she has nothing to apologise for after the collapse of the charity. in an at times bad—tempered interview, camila batmanghelidjh tells this programme she did nothing wrong and believes the government were trying to bring her charity down. before it closed kids company had received £47 million of taxpayers' money and millions more in charitable donations. there wasn't a financial mismanagement of kids company, let's be very clear about that. when kids company closed in august 2015, we had a year's money ahead, three months‘ reserves. what shut the doors of kids company was false sexual abuse allegations being taken to newsnight, broadcast and then the police subsequently found that no crime had been committed, we were cleared. but by then, it was too late because the funders who had pledged the money withdrew their grants and because of that, the trustees had to close it. you couldn't pay your staff. you were in financial trouble. no, we couldn't pay our staff. it's very important that when we have this conversation, that you ask me questions... because there are so many inaccurate pieces of information. it's true that you couldn't pay your staff? the reason we couldn't pay our staff... that is true? no, we couldn't pay our self—employed staff. because our payroll staff were paid completely to the last month that they worked with us. the reason we couldn't pay the self—employed staff is because the cabinet office created a rumour that the £3 million grant they gave us wasn't for salaries and wasn't spent. for salaries and —— was misspent. but you had to get an emergency grant? consequently, £2.1 million of that grant was left in the bank account when we could have paid the self—employed, and that's the point. you had to get an emergency grant from the government. you describe it as an emergency grant, the truth is that there were significant discussions taking place behind the scenes with the cabinet office about the fact that the funding they were giving us was insufficient. the problem is, in a short television interview, i cannot give you the full details. but what i can tell you is that there was a systematic dismantling of kids company by a kind of politically driven malicious campaign. why would that be when this was a government who had given you £47 million in grants? because government is not cohesive. you think all of government works together, it doesn't. 0k, a politically motivated dismantling you say? so, some kind of conspiracy to shut you down? who was involved in that? well, there were some civil servants and some politicians and the difficulty i have is i don't know exactly who. who do you think? but we now this has happened. who do you think? i don't know, and i'm not going to get into a guessing game. can you understand that it does sound slightly absurd to say on the one hand, the government is giving you £47 million, that is a lot of money. and on the other hand, there is an unknown civil servant or two trying to somehow, a civil servant, dismantle you? well, you think you live in a democracy. but actually it's not that straightforward. let me ask you, you're not going to apologise to the children that were let down by the closure of kids company? no, don't put me in that position, victoria. don't frame it in that way because that is not right. children were let down by the closure of kids company. i'm asking you would you like to apologise for that? in my book, i have clearly stated that the one thing i experience is extreme sorrow at the fact that the children suffered in this way. do you accept responsibility for that? we were not responsible for the closure of kids company. not at all? no. and i'm being absolutely clear about that. and the only way you're going to get the truth here is if there is some kind of an inquiry, i don't want us to spend the money on it, but some kind of inquiry that is independent of government machinery. next question. would you like to apologise to the taxpayers and to the people who donated from the goodness of their hearts, money that you wasted? i don't think we wasted money. why are you assuming that we wasted money? where did that come from? a pair of shoes for £305 for one client. that, i don't know what the story of that is. so it's potentially a waste. i mean, anyone spending £305 on shoes is a waste. if that has taken place, and i don't know what the real story of that is, i would have to find out about that. and that wouldn't be something that i would want. victoria, people gave us money, be very careful about this again, we actually fund—raised to buy the children clothes, so there were restricted funds. yeah you fund raise and people give you money when you fund raise and they probably don't expect it to be spent on designer shoes. more than £50,000 on someone described as the child of an iranian diplomat. including funding their phd studies. again, that isn't how the story is, and i don't think you should frame it in this way. well, this is all from an audited report. let me give you another example. what audited report? where is this audited report? an adult client paid 46... no, victoria, you have just made an allegation, and i think you have not identified the source of the report for me. i don't know where you're getting your figures from, we housed families, i don't know which family you're describing, this is a very unfair way of managing this situation and i don't know... an example from the book. a stay at champneys spa for somebody called dave. this young man was mentally ill. the nhs couldn't take him and he was very psychotic. we had to pay for him to go to a psychiatric hospital, the psychiatric hospital, a private one, put him on anti—psychotic medication. it took them 11 days to stabilise him. this is someone who tried to jump off a bridge and the police had grabbed his shirt mid—air. and then what happened is that this young man and another young man, when they got better, played a practical joke at the hospital and it upset the nurses and they refused to treat them. and this was someone who didn't have any parents or family around and was homeless. so the psychiatrist and i were given 24 hours to find him alternative provision. we couldn't find him alternative provisions in such a short time, and the reason i made the decision to turn to champneys is because champneys is the only spa that has a doctor and a nurse on duty and they could then look after him whilst he was on the medication. which gave us time to find him alternative provision. and why did he need a chocolate massage? well, he... i didn't provide that chocolate massage, let's be clear. you paid for it? no. what happened, and i told him off for it, is that while he was there, he booked himself into a treatment that he shouldn't have done. so who paid for that? in the end, we had to pay for it... so the charity? and i actually told him off. look, this is a young man who has done something wrong. we told him off for it. i didn't agree with it and that is how that incident happened. we are being prosecuted on the back of minor details like this, why are you not asking me questions about why so many children were pouring through the doors of kids company who were statutory responsibility? why are you not asking the question... you might describe them as minor details but this is charity money. it's a minor detail. it's not a minor detail. donations given to you to look after kids who have nothing and are on the street. victoria, have you ever had an adolescent do something wrong? and you've had to pay for that and you're still stuck on it, but you're not asking me the questions that really matter which is why was kids company left with some 17,000 children who were statutory responsibility with no one willing to pay for it? why were we getting that type of child through our doors. those are the sort of questions you should be asking me. now, those are the sort of questions you want me to ask. you predicted that, with the closure of kids company, communities would descend into "savagery", your words. chairman of the trust. not my words. whose words were they? first of all, again, this is something that is out of context. the cabinet office... who used the word savagery? i don't know who used the word savagery. but you're saying it absolutely wasn't you. i do not believe i said anything. so you're not sure? i don't... how can you? i don't have document in front. hold on, again, this is a bit of misinformation. just a minute, it was a kids company investigation. the chairman of your trustees said it would lead to arson on the streets. now, those things have not happened at all. which has led some to wonder well, maybe you weren't doing vital work? there has been no impact, there has certainly been now arson or savagery. hold on, victoria. first of all, the way that document got created was because the cabinet office asked us to produce a risk assessment and as part of the risk, there was a spectrum of risk from minimum risk in certain areas, and major risk in other areas. and you have a very short memory because remember the riots of 2011, where the whole of london descended into mayhem on the back of one single incident. it was absolutely wise and sound for the trustees to create a risk assessment that had structures within it that assumed, if kids company suddenly closed, and there was an extreme distress and kids were in a crowd somewhere, that there was the potential in the neighbourhoods we are in, for things to escalate to high levels of risk. in hindsight, that was wrong? how can you... when you do a risk assessment, you're not stating fact, you're stating a range of possibilities. i understand, i understand, and when you look back it was inaccurate? well, it was because the day we closed, the children were not there. as it was, some kids were shot, one young person was stabbed outside and died. it's not an easy—going neighbourhood. and is that linked to kids company closing? i don't know. then why raise it? because i'm just explaining to you that these neighbourhoods are not sanitised environments, these are environments where young people are in possession of firearms, they are in possession of knives, they are high risk environments. it was absolutely wise. .. by bringing it into conversation, you linked it to the closure of kids company and you have no evidence for that at all. no, ididn't. you just put me in that position, you said by bringing it into the conversation, you linked it to kids company. i did not do that. i said to you, these neighbourhoods are very high risk. 0k. i want to ask you about an allegation to do with drug—taking by kids company clients. the bbc reporter simon cox spoke to a woman in 2015 who had been going to one of your centres for a year and she told him what happened on fridays when brown envelopes containing money were handed out to young people who came to kids company centres. have a listen to her. i remember getting an ipod out of my money actually! i saved up and got an ipod. what about others, what would they do with it? spend it on weed. it was weed heaven on friday, it was weed everywhere. you could smell it from down the road, like, from london bridge. it was bad. yeah, that was what they would do, go to the blocks and just get high. they come into the building high. did you know that money was being spent on drugs? i have no proof that any money was being spent on drugs. apart from at least one... do you not believe her? well, first of all, there are a number of issues here. journalists were paying vulnerable kids... i can tell you that bbc reporter simon cox did not pay that woman to say that to him. and i don't know who that woman is. and i don't know why she's saying that but having said that, there isn't a secondary school in the land where young people aren't attempting to smoke weed. but they're not being giving cash by their adult superiors who are there to protect them. do you give your children money? it's completely irrelevant. it's not irrelevant. he does a paper round, he gets it from a paper round. do you give your child money? no. have you never given your child money? yes. you've never given your child money? yeah. i'm a parent, i'm not a charity. i'm not given other people's money... i'm asking you a question. it's completely irrelevant. no, it isn't. i don't think it's irrelevant, because kids company in the lives of many... this is a former kids company client... let me finish. kids company in the lives of many vulnerable children and young people functioned like a substitute parental carer because many of the kids were left with parents who were abusing the household money with substances. i understand that. i absolutely understand that. wait, victoria... i'm asking you, did you know some of that money was being spent on drugs? we had to give young people, some young people... did you know? let me finish. answer the question then we can move on and say whatever you need to say? no, because... do you honestly think i'm going to stand there and allow a young person to use their living allowance for drugs? you can only assume that young people will use or adults will use the money that they're being given to live on for what they need to live on. would you recognise a stoned teenager if you saw one? well, that's a bit of a patronising question. why? because of course i would, i worked with them for 30 years. so you never saw anyone in and around the building, any of your clients... you know, this is again something you don't really understand. 80% of our kids arrive at our centre already having access to drugs because these kids don't... so the last place they needed to spend more money on drugs was your centre? no, that is really an unjust way of framing your questions because actually i'm telling you, 80% of the kids were already arriving addicted to substances, we did give them cash because they needed to eat, they needed to travel. you didn't know what they were spending it on so why not give them food vouchers? you have to have faith because you can't top up an electricity metre or a gas metre with food vouchers, or go to college. this is so derogatory, why are you framing these children and young people just because they come from disadvantaged backgrounds? i'm not, i'm not. who are drug—consuming individuals... i'm not. you are. you have not said one good word about them. in your head... it's not myjob to say a good or a bad word about anybody, it's simply to ask questions. well, i'm telling you that the manner in which you are asking your questions are immensely biased and they are framed in the context of these kids being individuals who're somehow flawed. they are not going to use the money properly, they are all going to have drugs. some may have, but many others didn't. that's a gross generalisation and inaccuracy. well, it's my observation. 0k. i'm sorry if it comes across as a generalisation. do you believe that teenage girls between the ages of 16—18, clients of yours, were being coerced by gang members into sex? i don't know. you dismissed it in the past, now you are saying you don't know? not on our premises because it wasn't possible because we were so highly staffed and that was the reason we wouldn't cut down the staff because you are in a very high risk environment. it was reported to managers at kids company but they didn't report it to the authorities? i don't think that that is possible and, if they didn't, yes, they were in the wrong, but i don't... you see, you are making an allegation that the police have already found to be untrue. you just said it's possible? no... you said you... isaid... the question you asked me, i didn't say at kids company. i said it's possible in these communities for levels of perversions to be high and that was the whole point of kids company existing there. i'm going to give you an opportunity one more time if you wish to take it to apologise to either people who donated to kids company or to some of those children who ended up spending money on drugs, when it clearly wouldn't have necessarily helped. victoria, forgive me for saying this, this is a highly manipulative framing of a statement. but... that is not to say that i don't feel deep sorrow for what happened to the children and the fact that our self—employed staff were not paid. i loved our donors and i have massive respect for them. without them, kids company would not have achieved what it had achieved but i refuse to play the caricature... i understand. you know, the duet that is being created with the media creating a false story and then forcing me into an apology. let's talk now to chris cook, from newsnight, who broke the story of kids company's demise. well... it's hard to make a lot of sense of what she says in these interviews unless you have a lot of context. listing to the interview, i heard all the numbers you used. the numbers on spending come from a pwc report prepared for the charity so it can understand itself better. hers, "i don't recognise this" " spiel, i don't recognise this. it's still the case that local authorities can only find 1600 or so names in london. the aftermath of the charity boss by closure, if you think that the context, the council thinks there are only 1600 in london, she thinks are 16,000. if the charity was right you would expect a lot of need to merge with local charities in the area. it's actually the case that when you talk to other charities doing the same sort of work as kids company said it was doing in south london, they said they didn't see a rise in demand. the common story is, we get a few dozen guys come in, we get a hand—out in cash, and they say no because it's not what they do, and they disappear. it's extraordinary she continues to use these figures and make these claims. i don't think anybody can believe them any more. some comments from you. any mail from helen. the camilla interview was great. this lady really held her own, how many other leaders stick with speaking out like this woman has done. i think victoria was a bully. stevie says, can you let camilla from kids company get her sentences out. patronising snobbery from victoria. drew says this woman is completely deluded and takes those possibility for poor leadership. andy says the kids company explanations do not seem quite right and £47 million is an awful lot of money. gabriel says kids company needs a root and branch investigation. the inexcusable waste of public money and donations these to be looked at. carroll says the kids were let down by her and she needs to be honest and get her head out of the clouds. julie says, this isn't a book promotion. explain yourself. you can't it explain your own selfish actions. it's revolting. and camila batmanghelidjh‘s book kids: child protection in britain — the truth is out now. still to come. we'll be speaking to people who've been affected by the rollout of universal credit. we will hear from one we will hearfrom one mother of we will hear from one mother of two disabled sons who says the system has left broken. more than half a million rohingya muslims have fled their homes in myanmar — with the united nations urging bangladesh to speed up its refugee vetting process. time for the latest news — here's annita. in the last hour, the spanish government has announced it is taking steps to impose direct rule over catalonia. there are fears the move could spark further unrest in the region. it comes in response to a warning from the region's leader that he would call a vote for independence if the central government refused to hold talks. in a letter to the spanish prime minister, carles puigdemont warns he will call a vote if the national government continues what he called its repression. a big increase in the number of violent crimes recorded by police in england and wales. official figures show a rise of 19% in the 12 months to the end ofjune with crime overall increasing by 13%. the figures were published by the office national statistics. theresa may has written an open letter to eu citizens living in the uk promising to make it as easy as possible for them to continue to live here after brexit. the letter was released as the prime minister travels to brussels for a summit with european leaders. they are expected to say they are not yet ready to open talks with britain about a post—brexit trade deal. theresa may is meeting the former us president bill clinton to discuss the continuing political deadlock in northern ireland. mr clinton arrived for the meeting with the prime minister in downing street following private talks earlier in the week with the main northern ireland party leaders in belfast. as president, he played a key role in helping to secure the 1998 good friday agreement which led to power—sharing at stormont. sir tom jones has told bbc news he believes the problem of sexual harassment is widespread in the music industry. whilst talking about recent revelations involving harvey weinstein, the singer said he was propositioned when he was young and the incident left him feeling terrible. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. we have many comments about the previous interview. sarah said camilla has taken no responsibility. dave said watch the interview with the ex—ceo of kids company. she is in total denial, nothing is her fault. another said that camilla is a self aggrandising promoter who refuses to take responsibility. marcus said sad to see two people come to loggerheads. kids company was a scapegoat. chip said, to me you are a government stooge. the treatment you are giving kids company founder is wrong. another said, that was intense interview, this is why i love your programme. sport now. mp damian colin says the failure of seniorfigures in the fa mp damian colin says the failure of senior figures in the fa to recognise shortcomings in the claims made by eni aluko has raised doubts about their ability to take the fa forward. chelsea had to come back to rescue a 3-3 chelsea had to come back to rescue a 3—3 draw against roma in the champions league. manchester beat benfica1—0 in lisbon, held by an errorfrom their benfica1—0 in lisbon, held by an error from their 18—year—old keeper on his debut. elsewhere, scottish champions celtic were beaten 3—0 by bayern munich. changes ahead for you —— forjohanna konta who has split from her coach and will not play again this year due to foot injury. i will be back after 11 o'clock. the roll—out of universal credit is going ahead. this programme has been told the roll out of universal credit is leaving people "near destitute". 0ur reporterjohn 0wen has more. the government's flagship benefit reform, universal credit, has been underfire due to the length of time new claimants have been forced to wait for their first payment. yesterday, the government suffered a symbolic defeat in parliament, as opposition mps voted in favour of pausing the rollout of the new system. in theory, claimants should expect to wait around five to six weeks for theirfirst payment — that includes a seven—day period in which new claimants aren't entitled to any money at all, plus a one calendar month assessment period. in reality, many new claimants are being forced to wait much longer. anna was moved on to universal credit from other benefits a few weeks ago. she says for her, the impact was devastating. i applied for it and they said ok, i got all my evidence and everything and they've turned around and said i have to wait between six weeks and three months before i get a payment. and so for the last two—and—a—half weeks, you haven't had anything? nothing whatsoever. how have things been for you in that time? very, very difficult. last weekend, we have had no food. my five—year—old's last food was school dinners. 0n the saturday, we were walking down the street and she was searching in bins forfood because she was starving, she was ripping mcdonald bags to see if there was any chips or anything on the floor, it was awful, broke my heart. sunday there was no food, she was going to bed, her stomach was rumbling, "i'm hungry, i'm hungry, i'm hungry". she had no food saturday, sunday. here in ripenden west yorkshire, brendan was able to get an advanced payment when he applied for universal credit injune but it wasn't enough to cover his living expenses for the care of his seven—year—old son tobias who lives with him two days a week. it probably lasted me about two weeks, to be honest, and then, you know, left with nothing so then you're hoping that what you've got is enough, which it wasn't. never been in this situation where i could lose my home. it's a big thing. if i get evicted, i don't know what i'll do, i don't know where to go for help. i don't know really. i daren't think that far ahead. sorry... to understand why the government's been quite so determined to press ahead with the universal credit, we have come to a place where it was born, the centre for socialjustice, a think—tank responsible for the original design of the policy. let's be under no illusions, this new system as it stands is so much better than the old system. let's not pretend people weren't falling into rent arrears under the old system or getting stuck out of work and welfare dependency under it. if you look at every study done from the ifs to the government, universal credit on the whole will lead to more people being in work, people earning more money and people more likely to stay in work because the way the system is designed is to support people in work, notjust get them into work and leave them. the government made a concession by agreeing to make the helpline used by claimants free of charge but despite rumen is about a reduction in the waiting time for payments the government say they have no broader plans to change course. let's speak now to some of the people at the sharp end. two people in a position to do something about it. sarah spoor is a full—time carer for her two disabled sons. in our liverpool studio is tony garvey, who was left without any income for three months because of an "it glitch". chris green is a conservative mp and a member of the work and pensions select committee which discussed universal credit yesterday. margaret greenwood is on labour's work and pensions team. tony, until last christmas you were in work. what happened when the job came to an end? i think... what happened last year, i have been claiming universal credit since january 2016. i got a part—timejob over christmas, which i was delighted about. it was sorting post, only for the christmas period, so it had an end date. i worked my last shift on christmas eve. i was off the threshold to universal credit, i did not need it all that time, which is what i want and i assume the dwp want. when i returned i found my claim was not restored insta ntly. i found my claim was not restored instantly. between christmas eve and march the 24th i received nobody from the universal credit scheme. i had to sell a car my mother left me to make ends meet. and move in with my father because i had no options. i spoke to citizens advice on my mp who agreed it was a traumatic time. at that point i was very angry, because i was getting no response. having worked in it 11 years before being unemployed, i found having worked in it 11 years before being unemployed, ifound irony in being unemployed, ifound irony in being told i was suffering so much because of a system fault that was never expanding on, even when my mp looked into it, which i found not good enough, to be blunt. chris green, could you go without income three months? i certainly could not. the principles behind universal credit are right, but the roll—out is in so many ways... that is no consolation to tony. there are problems with the current system. the principles are right but the roll—out has been slow because of problems with the system and the dwp have to sort out immediately. can you imagine no income, having to sell your car and move in with your pa rents. sell your car and move in with your parents. think about that. that is asa parents. think about that. that is as a result of the system your government design. this is why the secretary of state has to look into these problems. what do you think a persistent? again, i can support the principles. i am asking you about the system. the practice, the roll—out, has been far too flawed. a huge amount of work needs to be done to rectify so people are not left without money and no support. the syste m without money and no support. the system was not intended to be like this. there are major glitches. the system was designed to be like it is. why design a system that makes you wait six weeks before your first payment? there are options of advances. i am asking why design a system that makes you wait six weeks before the first payment?” system that makes you wait six weeks before the first payment? i disagree with that. the principle behind it reflecting work, more of a salary, monthly pay, so in that sense, six weeks is inconsistent with the idea behind universal credit. wide design a system that meets every £1 you earn, your credit reduces 63p? that is better than some people working over16 is better than some people working over 16 hours who lose 95, 90 6p in the pound. it is a long way from being perfect. a conservative collea g u es being perfect. a conservative colleagues said the waiting was causing and i quote, families going into rent arrears, going to food banks and spiralling further into debt. if she one goal right? she is right. how would you describe the system ? right. how would you describe the system? deeply right. how would you describe the system ? deeply flawed, right. how would you describe the system? deeply flawed, flawed in the design and implementation we are seeing problems. the flaws in design are so many with the built—in six—week wait which will drive people into problem debt. the fact that the housing element is paid direct to the claimant rather than the landlord, which leaves honourable people exposed. we are seeing an increase in people in rent arrears and an increase in people going to food banks where the service has been rolled out. despite what you say, the department for work and pensions say it is working because with universal credit people are moving it to work more quickly and staying were longer. we would wa nt and staying were longer. we would want that but the ministers figures predate the cuts to work allowances in april 20 16. he is using old data stop it is not a true picture. sarah, you care for your two grown—up disabled sons. tell us what it is like and how you have found it trying to get universal credit for your 20—year—old? trying to get universal credit for your 20-year-old? i get paid 37p per hour because i get carer's allowa nce. hour because i get carer's allowance. because that includes through the night. you are awake most of the night? i am up, testing blood sugars. if not there is a potential to die. i care for them through the day. if they are at couege through the day. if they are at college i liaise with support workers. most of my life is spent filling in forms. this is pip which i have to do regularly. the 20 year is transferring. what has that been likely you? last october he turned 20 and up to that point we had tax credits and child benefit, which vanished overnight. i lost over £8,000. i had to claim it back by applying for universal credit. the £8,000 was replaced by universal credit? no, i am down £8,000 per year. the dwp say as long as your circumstances have not changed which they haven't, you should get the same on universal credit or potentially more. it has not worked out that way. i have not contacted them because i have spent my time writing to them asking them to hurry up writing to them asking them to hurry up with the payment. do you think the work and pensions secretary will listen to people like yourself?” think the department for work and pensions has done a lot of good work in pressuring the government. the only thing you have changed is the phone line will be free from november. in the scheme of things, thatis november. in the scheme of things, that is not the most important thing. that should have been from the beginning. look at the principles behind it, that should not have happened. they need to look more closely. six weeks is too long and the advance payments need to be clear. do you get any sign they will look at it again? together, and hearing the reality of what they are doing and the roll—out, the department needs to listen to the evidence and radically change it because the implementation has to work from the start. it seems when they hear the evidence they say get an advance payment, but that could lead people into debt because they have to pay it back. there are problems with people getting advance payment, the access to it. and paying it back in six months, that leads to problems. there is cross— party months, that leads to problems. there is cross—party support for reforming the system. in the debate yesterday there was a huge amount about how labour agreed with the principles direction, and labour wanted it to be posing and fixing, then changed halfway through the debate. that's not what happened yesterday. we will not go over that now. what do labour what? what would you do if you were in power? we need to fix the problems affecting thousands of people up and down the credit. if you won an election as labour, would you scrap universal credit question rain we have a department looking at all these things, looking at a huge array of problems. we want the general election as soon as possible. you are in government, but the problem is yesterday david gauke was boasting that 80% of people get their payment on time, meaning 20% do not. over the next six months, 80,000 people are likely not to get paid. despite the complaints you have come you cannot tell us whether a labour government would scrap universal credit? we agree with the principle of making work pay, but the changes that have come under the government of the last two years, that's not the case. we want to make universal credit work and we have offered to work on issues that are problematic. there needs to be a pause so no problematic. there needs to be a pause so no more people are made to suffer in the way we have heard today. tony, a final word from you. how are you now? still coping. i chalk it up to myself. the dwp manor in helping people back into work, after suffering on my own for three months, i will take the credit. i don't think it's fit for purpose as it stands and they should rethink the implementation, either the design of the implantation is at this point, i think, design of the implantation is at this point, ithink, malicious design of the implantation is at this point, i think, malicious or simply incompetent. —— design or the implementation. thank you for joining us. so many comments from you about the interview with the former boss of charity kids company. the e—mail from miles, a good interview with the founder, who tried to turn things round and put a different slant on things, but you cannot justify her position and looks really bad in the interview. harry says, i'm sorry to say this, but the lady from kids company is a manipulator, more concerned with her image than the truth. victoria tried to ask questions viewers wanted a nswe rs to ask questions viewers wanted a nswers to. to ask questions viewers wanted answers to. persistent, yes, but bullying and snobbish, never. perhaps the missing money is around her waist in perhaps the missing money is around herwaist ina perhaps the missing money is around her waist in a money belt. debbie says this was a difficult interview. vivian says, i was watching your interview and i am appalled that the way victoria is conducting the interview with the kids company woman. it's a disgrace. her continual interruptions and attempts to pursue an agenda all her own art in forgiveable. she will not listen to a nswers in forgiveable. she will not listen to answers but bludgeons the interview with obvious attempt to denigrate her. what a disgrace. please keep them coming in. more than 530,000 rohingya muslim refugees have now fled myanmar into bangladesh. they face horrendous conditions and the united nations is urging bangladesh to speed up the vetting process so the refugees can be moved to safety further inland. save the children is warning of an impending child protection disaster waiting to happen in the refugee camps. we can talk now to paolo lubrano who's heading the 0xfam emergency response in bangladesh. tell our british audience what it is like in terms of the refugees and the kind of work you are trying to do. just yesterday at the largest refugee camp in bangladesh, we observed children walking in the mud up observed children walking in the mud up to their knees. houses and tents are collapsing under heavy rain, surrounded by mud. the drainage means people are living in really unhealthy conditions, especially children. it's affecting well over half the population that has reached bangladesh in the last few weeks. in these months it's nearly impossible to move around. it's a humanitarian crisis? it's most definitely one of the biggest crises we have seen in the biggest crises we have seen in the last few years. what needs to be done? we need necessary international support immediately. the resources of people we have in the field is not nearly enough to go over the ever increasing needs. you mentioned 530,000 people before. there have been an additional 20,000 people reaching bangladesh in the last couple of days. it's well over half a million. resources are limited. we need an immediate injection. especially for children, and women suffering from the extreme violence that they have experienced. water, sanitation, food and health care. this is absolutely important. what about the outbreak of disease? it's already a reality. we have seen outbreaks of cholera in some areas. it's extremely common, especially in children. we have people in the camp with skin rashes because of very poor hygiene. there is not nearly enough water to bathe in and wash clothes and keep hygienic conditions. there is the risk of more disease as well. thank you for your time. in comparison this seems rather parochial but it's still a big issue for a lot of people... the rise in fly—tipping has been described as reaching "crisis" levels with some blaming the problem in part on infrequent rubbish collections and changes to services at local tips. things like dumping bags of household weights, tyres, asbestos and animal carcasses. the rise in fly—tipping has been described as reaching "crisis" levels with some blaming the problem in part on infrequent rubbish collections and changes to services at local tips. joining us in the studio is kim burnham, who runs a bee farm in essex, which was nearly destroyed when fly tippers dumped tonnes of waste there. and phil larratt — deputy leader of the only conservative council on the previous list of the worst for fly—tipping in england. what happens to your bee farm? these people came in on two occasions, 0ctober people came in on two occasions, october 20 people came in on two occasions, 0ctober2016th and also in may of 2017. in one case the gate was removed and in the second instance berlocq was cut open and replaced with their own block. and they did what? they put on a caravan to make it look like a travellers site. —— the lock was cut open and replaced with their own lock. after conversations with the rangers, and ido conversations with the rangers, and i do praise what the country rangers have done. we are showing footage now of the absolute devastation. what you are seeing there is the end result. when we discovered it, we found it was about half that. so from saturday to when this was ended on the following wednesday or thursday, all of that was added. it was actually a very small amount we found on the saturday. what do you think of the people who did that?” am disgusted with the way they treated the environment. bearing in mind we have been on that site for the last six years. that land is something we prize for the honey it produces. and also for the training it provides my son on the bee farming association apprenticeship programme. the deputy leader of the only conservative council on the top ten list of fly—tipping in england. that's in northampton. why were you on that list? it's a variety of freezing. we are meticulous about what we record as fly—tipping. we have very many small fly—tipping incidents. we don't have the large—scale ones we have witnessed. we are a tight urban area. is it anything to do with cutting back on refuge is collecting? not at all. we haven't changed refuse collection in the last seven years and we have no intention of changing that. we have negotiated a contracts for the next ten years to maintain the same standards. we are tightening up on enforcement, which is perhaps where we we re enforcement, which is perhaps where we were lacking in the past on the fly—tipping and littering etc. we were lacking in the past on the fly-tipping and littering etc. so you will employ more people to enforce the fact you are not allowed to fly—tip because it is illegal? yes. what's the punishment if you are caught? i'm not too sure, but there are a variety of punishment is open. they can be fixed penalty notices. if they are not accepted it could be a court case and the magistrate was at a different level. it's an area where we haven't been perhaps as proactive as we could have been, but we are going out to negotiate and establish an enforcement contract, purely to deal with enforcement within northampton that will include fly—tipping. with enforcement within northampton that will include fly-tipping. thank you both forjoining us. many e—mails and messages from you about the interview with the former ceo of kids company. you can watch it online and make up your own mind. thank you to barry thomas, our fabulous director, who is leaving to go to itv, how dare he! thanks for your company today. have a good day. see you tomorrow. some brightness before the next batch of rain moves in from the west. in northern ireland to the rain tickly heavy and persistent which could lead to problems in this evening's rush hour. 0n which could lead to problems in this evening's rush hour. on top of that, gail is developing. 0ut many, as the rain eases off, it will be a damp and cloudy start to the day. but things improving with sunny spells developing into friday afternoon. you notice behind me, the next batch of rain moving in later on friday. a precursor to what will be a stormy start the weekend. i will see you later. this is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11.00am. theresa may heads to brussels in a bid to win over eu leaders with a promise to treat european nationals living in britain fairly after brexit. the spanish government says it's taking steps to impose direct rule over catalonia this weekend. the number of crimes recorded in england and wales has increased by 13% in the space of a year, violent crime increased by 19%. northern ireland's three most senior police officers are under investigation for alleged misconduct in public office. also, as allegations of rape and sexual harassment mount in hollywood singer sir tom jones says abuse is widespread in the music industry too. and actress tippi hedren says the weinstein allegations remind her of the abuse she suffered at the hands of alfred hitchcock.

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