Of the far right in germany, but not since the war have they had so many representatives in parliament. Nearly 6 Million People voted for afd, or alternative fur germany, in last weeks election. That will make it the third Biggest Party in the bundestag. But, within days of its stunning electoral success, its co leader declared she was out. The party was too anarchic, too focused on russia, discrediting its moderate members, and would be ineffective in opposition. My guest on hardtalk is the afds deputy leader, beatrix von storch. With more than 90 members in parliament, what difference will they make to germany . Beatrix von storch, welcome to hardtalk. Why do you think your former co leader frauke petry left to set up her own group in parliament . Well, actually we dont care about it. Because we have given responsibility by our voters, and they expect us to come up with a solid and a constructive opposition in this parliament, and this is what we are about to set up at the very moment. So we are concentrating on this. We have not yet founded our group completely. We voted into office already two spokesmen, and four other people, and there are others to come. So this is what we concentrate on. We know that people expect the afd to focus on what has been handed over to them, and thats the responsibility to set up an Opposition Group in this parliament, because there hasnt been any for the last years. You say that you dont care that, just after the election, your co leader walked out. Yeah, if someones leaving, you cant stop them. She declared her decision. We recognise it, and then we keep on going on what has been what is our duty now, and this is to settle our group, and to come to work in the parliament. Thats what were doing. But she says youre an anarchic party, that you cant offer a credible alternative government, that moderate members are discredited. Do you recognise what she is saying there . Well, we recognise that we gained almost 6 million votes. 1 million from the former Christian Democratic Union, so from Angela Merkels party, 500,000 from the social democrats, 500,000 from the left, and lots of voters whove been not voting for the last election. So this is what we see. We know what the people want. They want a shift in the policy, and its now upon us to put this shift into reality. But you have been in the strange situation of losing a leader before, because he, like frauke petry, suggested the party had changed. Two years ago, bernd lucke said that the party was pro russian, anti western, openly xenophobic, and used xenophobic rhetoric. You know, we can talk about our programme. I know thats very difficult for you, and all the others, to talk about our programme. We are not phobic, or anything. Wejust declared, for example, that islam does not belong to germany. We are in favour of the religious freedom, of course. But islam is claiming political power, and this is what we deny. And we do not want to do compromises with a religion claiming political power, because in our constitution, and in our with our values, its not comfortable to have a religion claiming political power. This is what islam is doing, very clearly, because sharia is a part of islam. And sharia is not only organising the personal beliefs of a person, but is also regulating the civil law, and the punishing law, and the public law, and its not only about religion. I want to get onto those policies in a moment, and you immediately reach for islam, and we will come back to that. But it is partly because of your policies that people are saying that questioning what the party stands for. Because, of course, the afd started off as an anti greek bailout. That is what the alternative was. And now, people are suggesting that it has been captured by the far right. 0skar niedermayer, who is germanys leading academic expert on political parties, said that you have increasing connections to right wing extremism. Yeah, there are all kinds of experts, and all those experts said that the euro rescue policy would work out. All those experts predicted that there will never be a brexit, and all those experts predicted that there will never be a president trump. So all those experts somehow got it wrong, dramatically. Ok, but are they wrong with this . Are you attracting more right wing extremists . We are attracting all those people who say we do not want to have unlimited numbers of uncontrolled Illegal Migrants coming to our country, without even showing their passport, and just coming into our country. This is what we do not want. We want to have control over our borders. We want to take in migrants, yes. But we dont want to take in unlimited numbers of Illegal Migrants. But you havent answered my question. You havent answered my question, which is that is the party gaining more support, and having increasing ties, with right wing extremists . No, of course not. I mean, they are still there, they are still voting for other parties. All those parties are still there. So this is not what we are going for. We are addressing a problem. And i know it is very hard for you to talk with me about those issues, because yourejust going always to one side and saying, look, youre attracting those people, and youre attracting those people. What we do, we have a very clear programme. Weve come up with this programme, weve presented this programme to the people, and this programme has been voted, has gained overi million votes from those former Christian Democratic Union voters, so those who voted merkel in 2015, last time. This time. Yes, but i want to get onto the policies, but people who voted for you also need to know what you stand for. So you have the number of mps elected was 94. Among them, among your new mps, these are the people that presumably you are proud to represent your party in the bundestag, you have jens maier, a judge who has criticised germanys cult of shame over world war ii, and used nazi terms to condemn the creation of mixed races. You have wilhelm von gottberg, who described the holocaust as a myth, a dogma protected from historical research. You have petr bystron, who is on a watchlist of the German Domestic Intelligence Service because of his support for the extreme right wing identitarian movement. Are these the mps you are proud of . No, weve got 93 members now, which make part of our group, and theyre coming from all the different states. And there are some who have, of course, debates in the public in the last month. Thats true, i dont deny it. You can go into every detail, and then look closely, what have they said, and what have they come up with. Petr bystron, for example its ridiculous what is brought against him. So we have those talks also within our group. I dont say we dont have those talks. So youre quite satisfied that all those mps. Youre quite happy for them to represent the afd, every one of those 93 remaining . I am very happy that the German Parliament gets back an opposition voice, because there has not been anyone, any opposition voice, in the last years. This is very important. And what we can see is that we already, only by existing, and only by being a member of the parliament now, the public debate is shifting. Because in germany they tried to push us down, and claiming us right wing i dont know what, the whole time. And this does not function, because people see that this country is facing severe problems, severe problems. And this is not its not about one quote of one member which has not been good, or even bad. This is not causing a problem for our country. 0k, well, lets turn to what the alternative fur deutschland looks like. You immediately refer to your policies on islam. What are they . Do you want to close down mosques . No, we want to make very clear that we do not want to have islam claiming political power in our country. Were very much in favour of religious freedom. I said that already. And a mosque is where muslim people are practising their beliefs, so thats ok. What we know from our secret services is that we basically and every mosque has problems, because theyre preaching very often in a language that we dont understand, which is arabic. And theyre preaching against our values, our constitution, our people, our culture. And this is what has to be looked at very closely. We know that from our secret services, that they are. What are they preaching what are you suggesting that they are preaching, that you are not happy with . It is not me saying. It is our secret services saying. They know that there is very much going against our culture. They are preaching in favour of sharia law, and this is something we ask them to declare. Its very weve got lots of integrated muslim people in our society, even germans. So its not a problem with muslims as believing as a believer, as a person whos believing. But we ask them to declare that sharia law is, for example, not they are not sticking to sharia law. We ask them to distance themselves from sharia law. And what we know is that sharia law is part of islam. But that does not go together, and as long as they are sticking to sharia law, they are going against our constitutions. Because, for example. You want an end you want no appliance of sharia law. Even if it is in the private matter of somebody who gets married in another country, has an islamic wedding, and then sharia law applies in their community, you think that is not appropriate . We dont think, for example, its appropriate to accept the child marriage, for example. This is something that we think. Even if they get married in their country, we dont want to have that. We dont want that does not go together with our values, and you cant claim religious freedom for all these kinds of practices. But german law and the german constitution already trumps that any other law. This is what what we ask them to do is to publicly declare that they do not stick to sharia law. And we have got islamic organisations within germany, one is the zentralrat der muslime, publicly saying that our local law is not binding for them, directly. Its only valid for them because the islamic law, which is above all law, is telling them to stick to our law. So you want individual muslims do you want individual muslims to denounce sharia law . We want both. I mean, we want those organisations to declare that sharia law is not what they are going for. And, of course, persons also. But maybe we start with the organisations, because they are speaking not for all of them, thats another problem, but at least for some. And you have made it. It shouldnt be so complicated. Well, youve made it clear that you would ban the burqa. But you also say that public servants, teachers, students, shouldnt wear a headscarf. Does that also apply to, for example, nuns who wear veils . No, its not, and i think maybe we have got some different point. This is still a christian country. Everyone is free to live his own beliefs. But we dont want to have, in our public schools, and in public buildings, scarves or niqabs or burqas. So a nun who is teaching, can she wear a veil . Yes. But a woman who perhaps has a scarf, that covers less of her hair and head, but because she is muslim, she cant. We dont want to have that in our public schools, no. Why not . Why not what is the difference . The difference is that this is not a muslim country. Thats the difference. And everyone who wants to live in a muslim country, and wants to live under sharia law, is welcome to do so, but not in germany. But what can i ask, if you are satisfied with a nun who is wearing a veil, what difference does it make to you if somebody has their head covered for Different Reasons . We i mean, this is a political line we have, and we dont want to go and move. What we can see. Im living in berlin, i am in berlin right now. What we can see here in the streets is that its an ongoing process, that those who have not worn any kind of scarf or anything in the past, of the muslims, are now doing so. Even at school, even the young children, even the young girls. So were seeing this as a process, and its ongoing, and we dont want to start this process. You dont like any signs of someone practising the islamic faith in germany, is that it . No, we say we dont want to have it in public. You make the point that this is the history of germany, that its going against it. One of the partys leaders, alexander gauland, said this on september 2 if the french are rightly proud of their emperor, and the britons have nelson and churchill, we have the right to be proud of the achievements of the german soldiers in two world wars. Now. Can i ask you are you proud of your grandfather . He was hitlers finance minister. You know, no, iam not proud. And i know that my grandfather, personally, was guilty. Very much of it. I know it. But i dont think thats the way we should debate it. And i was not very happy about all those kinds of comments. The comments he made were others have done that before. So eisenhower has said the same thing. And i dont think it was helpful to repeat those. I think what he wanted to say is that not every single soldier was a murderer. But of course, there were. I lack the correct word in english, to say its unforgettable what has been done under the wehrmacht by german soldiers. But the only thing he wanted to say is that not every single boy who served there was a brutal murderer. But hes not alone in making comments about the Second World War that other people in germany find incredibly uncomfortable. Bjorn hocke, who leads the party in the eastern state of thuringia, said that germany should stop atoning for its nazi past, and he referred to a he described a monument, a tribute to murdered jews in the centre of berlin as a monument of shame. Now, there was a huge amount of criticism, not least from germanys central jewish councillor who said that the party had shown its true faces with these anti semitic and utterly inhumane words. You know, i think the point about all these quotes is one thing. You are asking and youre wondering how it is that the afd has gained so much power. We are in 13 regional parliaments now, 13 out of 16, and we are now the third Biggest Group in the German Parliament. And this is because this country is facing severe problems. People really think that this chancellor is moving our country into a position, which is causing existential problems. And this is what we focus on and this is what we are addressing. And, yes, there are sometimes people who are saying stupid things. No one denies it. And probably, some other stupid things that will be said in future, i cant say that. But the thing is that we are still the third Biggest Party, and people now realise that it makes no sense to only come out, you know, were having 20 minutes or 25 minutes. You well know. Could ijust finish this sentence, please . I want to interrupt because you make the point, youre quite right you make the point that youre the third Biggest Party, but you also know that you lost support after those comments. And if people. This is true. We would be even bigger without those comments. You are completely correct. The thing is that within the 25 minutes of this debate we are having, youre spending 20 minutes on three or four peoples quotes. Youre not talking about politics. They are seniorfigures in your party, which is why i refer to them. No, its one senior one. Lets talk about your policy on immigration, because this is one of the central themes. You bring up islam, but you have said in the manifesto that you want to control immigration from within the eu. Do you want to shut the countrys borders . So, first of all, we want to shut the countrys borders for illegal migration, this is very clear. We, basically, Everyone Wants it except maybe the greens, but they are crazy. So all the rest wants to close down the borders. No other country in the world is taking in an unlimited number of Illegal Migrants coming from. Yeah, from even outside the european union, which means from africa and the near east. So no other country in the world is following us because its stupid to do so and we are only addressing this problem, and we are addressing this problem because it is one. And of the immigrants who are there, and the large number, what would you do about them . Are you planning on kicking people out . Yes, we are planning on kicking hundreds of thousands of people out, and i mean, those people who have gone already through a Legal Process within germany, and at the end of the process, our courts have taken the decision that they have no right to stay. So they have to leave under our law and we want to have those people going back immediately. This is very yeah, thats true. Let me ask you how are you going to do this . Because you have 93 members of parliament now, but you have very limited influence. The spd party leader, martin schulz, has said he is not going to go into coalition because we cannot have an extreme right wing party leading the opposition. How are you going to make the change that you want . Laughs yeah, isnt that funny . So schulz is going into opposition because he doesnt want to lead the government, but rather, the opposition. Thats so funny. But anyway, we have a huge impact, because people are talking about it. And we will bring up this debate, we will bring back this debate into the parliament because we didnt have this debate in our parliament. We had a chancellor who just decided on her very own to open our borders to everyone and let everyone in. There was not even a decision, and not even a debate in the parliament. So now we have this debate, and now. You are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Youre fighting something where there are already immigrants. How are you going to make a difference . Because anything your party nobody wants to go into coalition with you. How are you going to make any change . Well, they are picking up our programme little by little. So what we came up with in 2013 already, for example, claiming the need for legal migration, to have a migration law, to have regulated migration this is what we came up with four years ago and now theyre picking this up. Then we came up with the idea to stop bringing boats from libya to europe, but rather, rescue those people who are in danger in the middle of the mediterranean and then bring them back to libya. This was brought up by us in the beginning. Now the others have taken over. All other parties are saying they wont work with you. Will you work with other people . Sure. If someone is coming up with a good idea, we will support a good idea. We are not going against the others because for courses of principle, we are just focused on our prog