Diplomas and College Degrees, does it work. Classes for convicts. Its inside story. Welcome to inside story. Im ray suarez. More than 2 million men and women are in federal state and country lock ups across micro, the highest rate of incarceration across the world, just under 1 of all adults. Authorities wrestle with costs, with the tendency of offenders to get in trouble again, societal problems of inmates concentrated behind bars. A widely used approach provide more schooling. For those that left without a High School Diploma, classes. For others, a chance to earn College Degrees behind bars. The strategy keeps inmates busy, does it result in a facility easy to run, and men and women less likely to reoffend, likely to succeed when they are on the streets. Here is roxana saberi. Im kind of over whelmed with emotion right now, you know. Reporter its been 15 years since johnny perez was last here. At the age of 21 he robbed a new york City Convenience store. His daughter was two days old. My daughter had to go her life without me because i put a gun to one. Perez would spend the next 13 years in prison. Im tired of everything food, police, inmates, the fact no one visits or writes me. Go. It came from a place of ignorance. I spent since the age of 12 from different gaols. There was nothing else to do. I had no skills. Any education, i had a gd. I got that in 1996. He found hope when he took College Courses behind bars. How did getting an education change here . It helped me understand myself, actions. Today perez works with the urban Justice Center as an advocate for other inmates. I would not have seen opportunities or checks or stepping stones. And suddenly, all of a sudden the impossible becomes possible. Perez left ciften with College Credits and worked to his bachelor degree, paid for by the link, a private programme working with colleges to offer courses in five prisons. A bachelors degree was received. He is hudson links director. We had 396 students graduate with a. A. And ba degrees. Going into the fifthier, we have a low recidivism rate. Reporter it can make the difference between turning to crime and building a future. For me, being in prison for two decades, the idea that im on the Governors Task force for reentry, senior fellow, the executive director here, in charge of five programs. That would not have happened if credentials. Without state or federal funding, the programmes reach has been limited. Raising money is a challenge every day. Having students in the programme ask me is there going to be a semester, it would be nice to plan out a year in advance, think about what we can offer, serve. Im proud of the man i am. Respects. Perez will celebrate two years of freedom and is planning to pursue a law degree. I believe in the power of education, it works for me and others. And continues to work for the people, men and women that incarcerated. For more on sending conflicts to class, we are joined by the editor of prison legal news, coordinator of the Prison Education projects. And director of the pathways from prison to post secondary education project at the Vera Institute of justice. Let me start with you. What do we know about people on the front end going into prison. Did incarcerated people do well in school before getting into trouble. What we know is that the Educational Attainment levels are lower in terms of incarcerated population. Levels of High School Completion are lower. Those that have post secondary education, thats the rate. Its important that we use the opportune moment to boost the skills of individuals to be a part of the Labour Market and do what they need to do. We heard from johnny perez, who said he got his High School Diploma before getting his College Degree while locked up in Rikers Island in new york city, is that yes, thats quite common. They use the fact that they are no longer on the streets, dont have the distraction of friends involved in antisocial behaviours, and they are able to focus. Quite a few individuals take advantage of that opportunity when theres time to concentrate, focus. And you have a large number of committed educators throughout the prison system, and they motivate, council, inspire, and the students themselves who are incarcerated put in the necessary work. Many places, due to the lack of funding for programs, many have waiting lists for people that have gds, while in prison, and are ready to take the next offer in terms of college. If you say to most americans, high school or college, it conjures up a set of images, books under your arm, going from class to class, having structured time, where you are in class or doing your homework, what education are we talking about, is it that many hours a day, can you go the way a normal student does. Education is divided into a couple of categories, you have the academic and vocational. The dual approach allows people to develop and get the g. D. P. And develop a trade so when they get out they can be productive citizens, a benefit to be in prison is they have no distractionses, they dont have to worry about different clothes, if they go, they have the opportunity to take advantage of what is in front of them. It depends on the institution and level of security. Each of those individuals will be allowed to go to class under the security concerns of the facilities. They are able to absorb and get their g. E. D. , drive themselves, learn and begin to realise then have more opportunities and previously. Just to clarify, if you are at a higher security institution, are there limits on the number of people that can be in any one class. Are the classrooms staffed by armed personal who watch over the goings on. Class . At a high level institution, theres an area controlled level they cant control. One of the things is they have waiting lists, because numbers much individuals has to be smaller security is primary. Can you study what you want, or is it limited by the supply of what is available in any lockup . It is fairly limited, up until the mid 90s, most had a higher form of education, Social Security degrees, bachelors, masters and doctorates. Pretty much when congress eliminated the programs, eliminating higher education, all that remains now is three or four programs and a couple of prison systems. Things are limited now. One of the things that is open is for prisoners that can afford it. Theres a number of universities with Distance Learning programs. We published literally the only book on the topic that describes what programs are available to distance learners, and one of the things that happened six or seven years ago, switching to online, and phasing out the corresponds portion. It is limited more. They generally dont have internet access. Well continue the conversation, including who pays and who enrols. My life revolves around my kids becoming champions. I guess i just got tired of losing and then something just snapped. You know. Concussions, fractured skulls. This is a scary situation. Find out what happens when the gloves come off. Go all out, make this a war. The highs and lows of kids competitive sports. You cant go home wondering did i give it everything. Youre watching inside story, im ray suarez. Classes for convicts, this time on the programme you can pile up studies and statistics to endorse, offering more schooling to those incarcerated, but the public has an aversion to spending money on prisoners, especially for a good like education that is a struggle to obtain on the outside. The challenges and Prison Education paul, fred, my guests. When you went to school, when you were incarcerated, who paid for it . Well, the classes i attended while i was incarcerated were predom nantedly fund the predominantly funded by the state. Office it was services and related technology, there i learnt about computers, business maths and law. I studied on my own. At the end of the day it allowed me to develop. One of the most important things about the individuals educated, prisoners, is when they come into prison, a lot have lost hope. It provides hope. Its important in the discussion as to why to id u kate, and allows them to think of a different pathway to where theyve been. Without education, its a warehouse. If theyve been there for years, what will they do, come out worse than when they went in, either you are growing or dying. Its important in looking at that. One thing with have done with the Prison Education project is we are funded by grants not the state or government, federal government. We are funded by grants. Our goal is to irn spire individuals to pursue higher learning. We have a programme which is the reint grayings academy, but to address the issue of inside a prison, the fact of having the glass there, and receiving grants for the vocation al technology. The computers have grants. That allowed me to come out with a microsoft certification and release. Paul wright. We have talked about waiting lifts, shortage of access. Do prison authorities use this as a sort of carrot for selected inmates, only for people who can get through a fine screen . I think the bigger problem is its not available. In most prison systems theres no system of higher education. Most of the officials support higher education, the problem they have is getting it funded by state legislatures, congress and grants and things like that. In general theres not really a vocal lobby against education, when you look at education as a hold, we spend how many billions educating people from kindergarten to 12th grade. Depending on the state, 4080 of prisoners are functionally illiterate. It doesnt make sense that well spend time and energy teaching kids from a through 12. As soon as they wind up in prison, then well lose interest and not do anything for them. Paul wright says theres not an antieducation lobby, when the Obama Administration introduced the proposal as a Pilot Programme to bring back that for incarcerated people. There was opposition. There are people that would rather give them the worst clothes, food and no College Education and will argue for it on the floor of the house of representatives. The point is we need to think about Human Dignity and what we aspect of people. The sentence itself should be punishment. Be should come home and do what we need them to do. The best way to do that is pull secondary education in prison. We do the divide and conquer. If you were income eligible you received it. The person incarcerated never met a denial. Thats lost. When you get taxpayers to understand for every dollar invested in prison, theres a 4 to 5 saving that we as a society can do more in health care, better rolls in transportation. Education in prison gives you the ability to get a job, 1328 greater odds of getting employment having educated yourself in prison. Stay with us, thats where i want to go next in the past few months federal authorities have begun to reconsider enthusiasm for long prison sentences, reducing penalties, releasing prisoners, changing sentencing structures. At the heart of those moves, an assumption that the people who are sent away today are some day coming back into society. Welcome back to inside story. My guests are with me. Glasses for convicts on the programme. If more education for men and women behind bars was not seen as a perk but something more like enlictenned education, will it be seen better. Does this take education of the future out of the realm of the abstract and make it real. Does it have the potential to change the conversation . Well i dont know. Hopefully we have moved past the punitive hatefilled politics of mass incarceration doubling the prison population from a million to 2 million in the 90s. The big thing about education, its been established in the country, as long as theyve been keeping statistics, that the more education people get, the lower the resid vis rate residivism rates. I think one of things you have to look at is why dont you want people to be educated, why dont you want people to be functionally literate and get a job and function in hour society. If you frame it as a choice of would you rather pay School Teachers and prison guards, it seems to me the choice may be should we have School Teachers. If you avert one crime oar or hundreds of crimes. Building up the economy. We talk about people in the wider population, what about people doing a really dong time and life sentences. Is it worth giving them an education, for different reasons. I believe it is important. One of the keys is with the education project, a goal is to reduce revidivism. The first is to create a culture of learning, for the volunteers and inmates one of the things i experienced when incarcerated those that had lights or longer sentences, they were serious, those were the ones who avoided the structured. The ones that focused and helped me and others to focus. They were the teachers to focus people to get out and be the role models in society, its imperative. We had you ganta it is a design that is replicated, and we have gone to the security prisons, where people will not get up for a long time. By them being inspired and empowered to develop, to have hope. It changes the environment. Violence goes down within the institutions. Particularly those with longer sentences. They empower others. They find purpose in their life. We have over a minutes left. Where is the push back coming from. All three of you made a straight forward case for providing more happening. Theres several hundred thousands coming home. We want them to be productive members of society. Education is the key. Why shouldnt we do it. Its bad politics, in terms of evidence, it works. It does all the things that we want a Government Intervention to do. Im glad the Second Chance programme is happening, well be able to allow more people to partake in this endeavour. Youll have an even more evidence to present to society that seems more concerned with chain gangs and pink jumpsuits and reducing the costs of meals in prison. Thats right, its an opportunity to brick Human Dignity back. We have to stop thinking of them as data, its mothers, fathers, returning home. I want to thank my guest. Director of pathways from prison to post secondary education. Paul, the editor of prison legal news, and ernst, coordinator of the Prison Education project. Ill be back with a final thought on who incarcerated people are. Stay with us. Send us your thoughts on twitter or follow me and get in touch. Visit our Facebook Page and tell us about your own experiences. Wed love to here it. Top architect david adjaye. For architecture to be emotionally relevant, there has to be a connection. Talks about the pressures of his biggest projects. Everything i was passionate about was about to be tested. And improving the world through buildings. Architecture does inspire social change. Every tuesday night. I lived that character. Go one on one with americas movers and shakers. We will be able to see change. Gripping. Inspiring. Entertaining. Talk to al jazeera. A Study Concludes that every dollar spend on Prison Education saves 5 down the road, and further education reduces the chance of reoffending by 16 . But those two important deal. It comes down to what you believe education really is, is it trade school, credential accumulation, or is finishing a diploma, a degree, taking Something Else on board that may be lacking in imprisoned people the ability to steer the circumstances of their own lives. Talk to people in prison, none had being inside as a life goal or a planned destination, many frnts had been drifting or larging from one thing for another throughout their lives and never had a chance to make a plan, complete it and reap the reward. Education puts a rutteder on your boat. Gives you structure to life this is in short of supplies. The idea of an educated convict may wrangle and offend some, especially when so many in the outside world face challenges of getting an education. An educated woman or man has a better chance of understanding his own life or her own life and figuring out what to do deme. That might be something worth paying for. Im ray suarez. Hour on america tonight living in fear. When threats and the threat of violence is something that is part of your every day life, you kind of get to the point where it just comes Second Nature america tonights Lori Jane Gliha meets a woman determined to change lives for gays and lesbians on the island nation journey. I didnt know what i saw, i knew it was not bad. America tonights lisa