Hello and welcome to the program. Im how much im sure hunger around the world has reached alarming levels. Thats according to a new report on global food and security. For the 50 year. Acute food and security has increased impacting hundreds of millions of people, and its posing a major challenge to the United Nations goal of ending hunger by 2030. The agencies that monitor food and security say not only Climate Change, but the rapid spread of conflict is causing widespread hunger. A multi Agency Report shows that last year, nearly 282000000 peoples lives were in danger because they didnt have enough to eat. 700000 people were on the brink of famine, almost all of them in gaza. The strips entire population is classified as food and secure, meaning they regularly dont have enough to eat. The democratic republic of congo has the most food insecure people. Nearly 26000000 in sudan, year of conflict has left more than 20000000 facing a hunger crisis. And a surgeon Gang Violence in haiti has left half the population without enough to eat as the director of the food and agriculture Organizations Office of emergencies. And resilience says people often face a combination of challenges, making it more difficult to recover from extreme weather events or violence. The single most significant driver of acute Food Insecurity is conflict environments. And this was the primary driver in 20 of the 59 countries and represented in, in absolute terms, the key driver for the largest number of people in acute Food Insecurity. Phlegmatic events was the 2nd most significant drive of an economic shocks was the 3rd most important driver. And again, here i think its important not to view these 3 drivers in isolation. Why we see is that often, typically these 3 have been mutually reinforcing together, excessive by to the acute for the insecurity situation. So what are the deeper implications of the reports findings . Its a good question for our guests. In johannesburg, alex of all is the author of mass starvation, the history and future of famine. Hes also the executive director of the World Peace Foundation at Tufts University in boston in the us. In the car, mom i do going to is a member of the International Panel of experts on sustainable fluid systems, a Global Think Tank that provides policy recommendations and advocates for sustainable and equitable fluid systems worldwide. And then qual, im for a dr. Jemila. My mode is executive director of the sun waist center for Planetary Health at sun way university. Shes worked at the interface of Public HealthClimate Change and savannah terry. And as im with the International Red cross and the u. N. A warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on the inside story. Jimmy let, let me start with you today. This global report on food chrisy says food and security around the world has worse and for the 5th consecutive year. For those attempting to end hunger around the world. How enormous has the challenge become . Thank you very much. I think that, you know, the, the figures are alarming 5 years in a row and were talking now about 208 to 1600000 people facing very severe a high level. So for of acute food crisis is something that the anti will should wake up to and be very, very alarm the numbers are not likely to fall drastically. And were seeing now, you know, as a compounding the compounding may is of prices that are leading to this situation right now alex, you just heard jamila mentioned. Now one of the numbers cited in that report which is the nearly 282000000 peoples lives are in danger because they dont have enough to eat. Now you wrote a piece recently with this headline. It says, i said the era of famines might be ending, i was wrong. What did you elaborate upon in that piece and why do you think you were wrong . So until about 6 or 7 years ago, there was a here on yeah, decrease in 2 things. One is the level call chronic melanie nutrition and hunger well wine, so the feed prospect was real, that 0 hunger could be achieved within our lifetimes. And the other thing was that simons that was terrible outbreaks all shoot to starvation, in which large numbers of people perish. That we should be all but abolished and very tragic the weve seen those made to come by and the reason why simon. So making a come back is entirely political. Its all to do with the use of starvation as a weapon of war. Mama do um, how much of a crisis our food systems around the world facing right now and how much have changes to global food systems in recent decades contributed to all of this a show. So i think the should go down. Yeah, be just a repeating again. Very watering, and he said with a cold and it will come home. But if you will be the same for a long time, that this isnt related to the brand. And uh, we quoted production that we have been rolling for a long time has not been really heard. And because if you look up for the last 15 years, food crises, see many pricing and dr. Being tied into the plumbing, it plumbing discussions got to be having for a long time. So we have the foot brushes we oldest because the questions that we have been facing, we called the, the corporate 19 crises and the war between you created and, and the russia thats, id be also exacerbating in what we are facing actually. So we have the big loops for the last 10 years of the decayed, awful foot and security is due to test. Thats such a nominal fee to be sure that we need to address and is a political issue. I thought the said by, by previous we get seen that its important to courtney sure. Because if you look at the trends and what was going on, the attorney, there is a room for even the granting clinician for for security. And there was jimmy lice. Saw you nodding along to some of what mama do was saying there. It looked like you wanted to jump in and add to the point he was making. So please go ahead. Absolutely, i think, you know, remember this point on being a political issue. We know that the Current Situation of a foot in security is also, you know, conflict in many cases is a really a proxy fog comment related Food Security challenges, especially in the saw how somalia and of course, in case of the right guys or i think that you know, the people that are displaced here and, and by the time of crisis and then compound it, as i mentioned before by a conflict, its just going to make things much worse. And what was said by alex earlier that were talking about from in, in a we would never imagine in this day and age we would still be talking about people literally on the brink of starvation. And you know, without any political will to allow food to get to them. Now were not short of food globally. We have enough to feed everyone. But the barriers mean the political jimmy, let me ask you. I also ask you about the fact that within this report, obviously a conflict is cited as one of the main drivers when it comes to food and security right now. But i also want to touch more specifically upon the Climate Change and ask you how much Climate Change has been responsible for pushing level hunger to these alarming levels the permit change. Uh it i, i look at the 3 sees conflict, climate and the 3rd one is cash, right . Basically the cost cost of living, anything related to whether its Household Debt or national debt. So these things play, you know, a major role and the interact with the shop where time of change, we know that were not going to be living with 1. 5. The target now is going to be likely to reach 2. 00. Now we know with 2 degrees, the compounding impact of 2 degrees centigrade is going to be devastating on foot systems. And unfortunately, its those countries that are facing conflicts, but also facing climate, the climate prices, and particularly when were talking about a sub Saharan Africa decide how and so forth. So i think, you know, it is just going to get worse until we actually do something about it. And as i mentioned earlier, is not a shortage of food or a shortage of money globally. How do we now, you know, compensate and help countries that are facing Climate Change ad, serious implications for security to get caught odette shortly. These countries which are normally the ones who contribute so little to Global Warming and carbon emissions, they need to be compensated in some way and supports it. So alex, i saw you are reacting to what the jamila was saying, that i want to pick up on the point that she was making when it comes to. How do you ensure that these country is the need to aid the most actually get it . And, and also obviously we know that the emergency is getting worse when it comes to boot and security. This is no surprise. Weve known this for quite some time, but where do things stand when it comes to fundraising, to address these crises and are these a budgets that are being given by donor countries . Enough . And i think we need to distinguish between 2 very important things that can to say, but are actually quite different. One is the structural crisis is all food production, farming systems and the general access to food by populations in most countries. And jimmy that has, has described that predicament extremely well. Im not the 2 moms and the numerous and financial and political pets. Thats the need to provide funds, but to provide for the full reform of the Global Economic system. The other thing which is isaac, whether shaw and which is something that is, is, is the most of the sensitivity to talk about is that when we see the actual assignment, its not just because things are getting worse. Its but its because there is a decision deliberately to go with his breakfast, disregard for human life to wage war in such a way that people stop. And this is absolutely no reason why children shouldnt be starving garza, apart from the political military decision. All of his read similarly in the field. We have seen something similar on folder in the country, but it is quite capable of feeding it so on yet the, the old thirtys have decided but stopped by some will be that weapon. And again, something similar in syria, in students, and that is the most sensitive a difficult thing to address in the International Political are reading out because frankly, different class calling count lee jasmine for making simon for a man made simon, which ended in mind. You is a crime, its alex. Let me just follow up with you on one of the points you were making. I mean, one of the things that cited in this report is that 700000 people and 5 countries or territories were on the brink of famine. Last year, almost all of them in gaza, you were talking about a guy that just a moment ago. The strips entire population of 2300000 is classified as food and secure, meaning they regularly dont have enough to eat. How much of a moral failure is that . Well, 1st of all, i have to say those figures to copying some companies succeeded day by day. The, its the nature of a report such as this so that it goes up and the report take some while to get be processed and published and, and the outdated in, in a couple of respects. First of all, we have never in the last 75 years seen such a rapid increase in rates of severe acute mount constriction and people facing certainly as we have, as we are seeing today in golf at so the number is it going not every day. The numbers in the report for us to don, also to send 3 out of date. The numbers were going to see very may just stop action unfolding and sit on and possibly possibly in pos of, of, of easy up here to even while International Aid budgets copying costs, the wells pre program, which may not be the kind of deals system for responding to these imagine cities, but its becoming the one that we have has had till now in many places. So 2 percent of it stops. So just kind of to hook the time when these needs a going up, the political will to stop the stop asian seems to be to that pricing. And the money to feed to the stopping seems to be draining away as well. Mama do, from your perspective, what should be most worrying to the Global Public right now. And also i want to ask you, is the International Community as concerned as it should be . Is it is faced with this increasingly dire situation and yeah, into most notice of the many things that people i think the because in the meantime is definitely how ill talk to me to set these is come up is collecting comics in the law. Does the subbing measurement guys, items, so the do you have a category property called or, and thats why he decided competence all the time that are these to question for bias. The additional supplies that we have going on, you know, and might not be in a web and all that. But this is what we are fishing actually. So there is a kind of, uh, just just picked up. Uh, you one right. Uh, we do a nation hoping International Goals and let you to visa with an additional 4 or 4 or 4. Uh well for Food Supplies and nobody is just, you know, trying to get other people, the ease. I probably could have been unable to show us and disrupt some that we can see actually. So if we want to talk about some issues, no, weve been the 1st thing is just to look up what international uh, the estimate. Uh, im just trying to put it up there to put a light to be really restricted and then getting conditions for basically. So its been said its not the software. So for 1st, its not the fact that the people who are not, even, even if there is so some of the structural issues that have been thatd be much money. So there is no actually to, to, to do big gaps that exist in the end. Is this one calculating as i know, so actually taking place . So when we talk about solution, i think that is in need for new the sub for a blessing hung up. We have a being said that sonya is that there is a need for newly, so itd be sort of relying on the, on the market to feed before we need to discuss the to put the 2 for the food for this or the people. This is very important and if you look at the funding alternative is not something that is being taught. We also need more than us and visit them full season to budget weve uh, weve done the shops because we just have a lot that, you know, me see some that you up is going to be. So basically, i just or disrupting, to some extent by about so somewhere be sure that, that created, you know, by knew and actions in the one we have. And also we need some relief for its kind of being so busy, but they didnt know the visa, suggestion of finding that to be off the we didnt know from the see how to do. Come on. I know im sorry to hear that. Im sorry to interrupt you, but let me let me go to jamila, cuz i see her reacting to some of what youre saying. It looks like she wants to add to the point you are making. Go ahead. Jemila. No, mamma do points to you know, the issue around Global Governance and it, we know that its the situation. If i take the situation guys, which is acute malnutrition is simply a barbaric and you know youre talking about 1100000 people displaced with nowhere to go and have no choice. They couldnt even leave to find food. And then you know about the culture of the population of guys are now facing a contrast with me. Im in the face 5 mount nutrition, and thats the worst phase. And yet we have instruments. We have the run scrooge accounts. So we have the geneva conventions. We have the rights in the office and the convention drug, just a protection of civilians in situations where we have, you know, article 5455, the need to protect Health Facilities and to provide people fluid and not allowed to, to stop yet yet. There is no political will to allow people who are starving to be fed when food is waiting at the doorstep. Now tell me, what are we going to do about this . This is going to create a trigger, a series of cascading events and go around the world and were talking about Human Security in gaza, which is going to affect Human Security globally. Alex, i want to pick up on what jamila was just saying. Theres, were talking about the issue of, of security and how it impacts the world when it comes to these issues. You wrote recently, also when a hunger combines with war, the, that in for techs of instability spends faster, hunger on a scale that were witnessing. I mean, this can really be a severe set threat to global security, right. Or are you fine completely agree. I mean, one of the, that the written history is that true, right . Of the 20th century is the degree to which from the crises and fear of the food crises. Well, absolutely pivotal in driving the key was that have including world war 2. I mean, one of the lessons that was done by the germans off to well below one when they felt that they had been stopped into surrender, was that they needed to secure what was necessary to sustain the population from you. And in what on the Eastern Front of a loan spot was called the hung up plan because it did take would stop the populations of Eastern Europe and the soviet union in order for them to acquire the food and the americans in the last phase of the war launched while they explicitly called operation starvation contains the japanese main the siege. And this seems to have been for all the way in which war and han and hung us came together in this terrible spiral. And i think as a time when the cries, we must have never again for genocide, we must also remember we must have never a game for my stuff. I should call them that scale. The 2 are linked mama do youve spoken about how fluid systems are in need of transformation. How much would things be improved if there were enough investment in, say, agriculture or local farming initiatives of the company searched to use some of the structural issues that you have been talking about . Share these uh uh, the issue of the investment in that y