sort of invisible wall of the united states. it's a policy though of containment that prevents migrants for moving north toward the united states. and in turn has created a sort of bottleneck effect where thousands of migrants are now living in these overcrowded conditions in often unsanitary conditions. the latest wave of violence in northern cameroon has left at least 22 people dead. thousands of people have fled to neighboring chad because of the unrest. fighting for access to water has been ongoing, between fishing and hurting communities. the u. s. state department has called for other democratic countries to expand their engagement with taiwan. often, nicaragua was government decided to cut diplomatic ties with the arden nation. the chinese foreign ministry welcomed nicaragua was moved us president joe biden has reaffirmed his commitment to ukraine sovereignty and a phone call with president. vote him as an escape. ukrainian president says the pair also discussed possible options for ending the conflict and eastern ukraine when they spoke on thursday. it follows tuesday, the virtual summit between president biden and russian president vladimir putin. farmers in india have officially ended a year long protest off the government, abandoned agricultural reforms, protested said the laws would have seen them lose the right to have a guaranteed minimum price for their point. use criminal charges against the protest. this will also be dropped. the u. s. has expanded its covert 19 booster campaign, offering jobs to 16 and 17 year olds. the move tears away from millions of teenagers to receive an additional shot. the food and drug administration says with rising cove, at 19 cases, the benefits of a booster job for people under the age of 18. i'll place the risks. does the headlines? i'll have one you see here on al jazeera, on, on the inside story season for that. from the al jazeera london, bro, casenita, 2 people in thoughtful conversation with no haste, and no limitation as an artist by nature or a person who on last part t left eye way way and in me. skipper, society is not interested in the individuality, the freedom, the spirit of the young person studio b unspent data analysis era. why is the u. s. president, hosting a global summit on democracy? joe biden says he won't t defend human rights and fight authoritarianism, or countries such as china and russia hadn't been invited to watch. will the media chief? this is inside story. ah, i don't welcome to the program i'm nick clock. united states betrays itself is one of the world's greatest democracies, its leaders travel the globe to spread values such as freedom of speech and human rights. but president joe biden says democracy is under siege from authoritarian regimes. so he's holding a 2 day virtual summit to try and give democracy a boost. it was criticized even before it began. the white house invited around a 110 countries, but russia, china, iran, and hungry, were not on the list. biden courted at china's roth by inviting taiwan, which beijing regards as a breakaway province. poland is also participating, despite the european union accusing its government of undermining the root of law and stripping of basic rights from minority. joe biden, urge participants to reverse what he called an ongoing recession of democracy around the world in the face to sustain alarm and challenges to democracy, universe the human rights and all around the world. democracy needs champions. and i wanted to host this summit because here is the, here in the united states. we know as well as anyone that renewing our democracy and strengthening in our democratic institution requires constant effort. while the nelnet prophets watchdog of freedom house says democracy deteriorated at least 73 countries in 2020. that is the worst. in 15 years, rights activists and sudan men mar and hong kong, in other places to have been prosecuted, jailed and forced into exile. china, who said its own democracy for him this week trying to lead is engaging say that one party government is more of a democracy than the united states. and critics of the u. s. a. it's in no position to lead on democracy while continuing to support autocratic rule as abroad and restricting voting rights at home. the. so let's bring in our guests in birmingham, in england, scott lucas emeritus professor at the university of birmingham from brussels in belgium. we have peter newman, senior fellow at the institute, and joining us from taiwan capital of ty, pay is asia political risk, unless ross find gold, a well warm welcome to each of you. so if i could talk these got like i said, the world similarly in the throes of a democratic back track, a rise of populism rise will thorough terrorism. democracy is perhaps on the way and this is a good conversation to have, isn't it? i'm a big fan of democracy. i am a big critic of countries that restrict political rights that put people in prison that provide the basics for some people, but not for all. but this is not the way in my opinion, to promote democracy. the way you promote democracy is by building up institutions . it's by insuring space for political participation, for all in the country. and it's by discussing with people in other countries, how you can work with them, civil society groups, journalists, activists, students. in other words, it's in the spirit of cooperation. democracy cannot just simply be shouted from the rooftops. it has to basically be developed on the ground. so my problem with the some of the democracies, but i'm all in favor with what the bind ministration has done in trying to repair the united states. after the catastrophe of the trump years to show an example to others that american pat can be democratic. great, i'm all in favor of calling out countries and actually trying to organize to build up the possibility for people to be able to get space to protest within countries to claim their rights. for the case of democracy is not something you can oppose it from the outside. you have got to walk the walk in terms of constructive action. for example, the anti corruption strategy put out or the white house this week. you walk the walk in, don't just simply talk the talk with a 2 day event, which is quickly going to be exposed, i think, to criticism and perhaps even really will come on to the corruption issue. but before it even starts building human one can say that some itself is not democratic . the guest list is selective. it excludes many yes, it does. but i think that's in the nature of things. and that's one of the problems with this particular initiative. it's worth pointing out that there was a similar initiative by america 20 years ago. madeline albright started a thing called the community of democracies and they had exactly the same problems that joe biden has now named me deciding on who is a democracy and who is not there, lots of countries in the world that america wants to work with. and that i think america should work with that are not perfect democracies, a lot of countries in the middle east, jordan morocco that are now feeling excluded because they don't fit into that particular category. on the other hand, there are countries that we shouldn't necessarily include in the current rose to democracies like poland who are included. so it creates a division that is not necessarily helpful. and that will create a lot of difficulties as we're trying to construct a pragmatic alliance. to countered the rising influence of china and peter, what happened to madeline albright community of mac sees is not of interest. well, they had a couple of conferences. they were well intended every once book while of democracy and human rights. but it became very clear very quickly that despite being democracies, all of these countries had very different interest. and then guess what, 3 years later the iraq war happened in america's credibility as a beacon of democracy, basically was finished and no further events took place. interesting. busy jo biden's, vash, and russ feingold no turkey, no russia, no, china, only iraq in israel as far as the middle east is concerned. does this not create just division, bolstering this cold war mentality is, as china would have it china and not being invited. it's not a surprise and the criticism that china just where other countries are making a be event. it's also not a surprise. yeah, the us and the other western democracies obviously are bit selective in who they consider their friends and who they consider worthy of criticism. and sometimes those definitions are a little bit unclear or they've got me stocked. frankly, i'm in agreement with my colleagues as far as the advocacy of this event, i expect, within a few weeks or a few months, people forgot about this event, simply because it's coming at the end of the year. there's already been a busy few months of multilateral or bilateral meetings that are attracted to global attention. and there are other forums, whether it's bilateral, multilateral or the work that n g n g o is due or unilateral programs of the u. s. department and various countries that already cover this issue. pretty much the only thing i could buy he talked about doing this and some level. it's good to see our leaders actually carry out the commitments that they make. but other than that, it's really hard to see any tangible or long term results. come out of this meeting, right? we're trying to just seem to be very cross about it. old. certainly hit a nerve, it's held his own summit and claimed its own model of democracy issuing this paper . title, china, that democracy that works bought that socket to get by reception in the united states corps who are probably in the other western democracies. there's 2 reasons for china's reaction. one is just the fact that taiwan was given in vacation and it's time to minister without portfolio. and it's defacto ambassador in the united states to participate. and then the other is the perception that this is really a me, the whole event is aimed at china. we're trying to influence in our growing influence around the world. so of course, china is going to react this way. you know, the amount of media coverage or statements by government officials in china and recent days is frankly been enormous. but almost similar to just holding the event . the advocacy of traders reaction is probably close to now. well, right, right. and especially when you consider the unit a 3 hong kong private democracy because it, it just being convicted of actors and effectively and chinese clustering towards taiwan where you are but no amount of summit or sanctions, which is a tool that the united states has been using against chinese officials with regard to a number of human rights issues, not as hong kong, but she and john into that as well. obviously this does not change the policy decisions on the chinese leadership. so same thing with the summit. you and the other countries attending to criticize china directly or indirectly, but again, it doesn't change the policy decisions of the chinese government. one thing i thought was interesting at the chinese ministry of foreign affairs, said that a single yard stick should not be used to measure diverse political systems in the world that democracy is not the only system that works. what do you make of that? scott? look at the end of the day. well let me just say something specific about china, the whole a dish to buy china this week, which does show their rattle. the idea that china is a democracy. you can take that apart very quickly. i mean it the document collapses by saying, oh yes, it is a one party system. oh, but we have multi party participation in china. no, you don't. you have the communist party. they say all, well we have democracy, development will know the same document then says, but development is the priority. so we can pick apart the p r of the chinese very, very quickly. but i think there's something important to make as a response. just saw this doesn't become the u. s. versus china, which is not productive. and that is i think we can all agree that no matter whether person was in beijing, whether person lives in london, whether they live in washington, whether they're in brazil, whether they're in south africa, whether they're in syria, they deserve the right to security. they deserve the right to be able to participate in their political system. they deserve responsible governments. they deserve not to be abused or detained. i think we can agree with that. so for the idea of china to simply say, oh, well, there's not just one way for democracy. fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about a basic regard for your own people. basic rights, whether it be through a constitution or through legal practices that are defended in china, should not be allowed to get away from that. right. unless you focus to the united states now and pete and you've been that they is it 1 may well wonder how it is that the u. s. takes it upon itself to, to promote something that it is as struggling to defend at home, given that the rise of populism there and trumps ascendancy refusal to a democratic election and so on. yes, and i think there are 2 mistakes that america and americans, the american political class always makes the 1st mistake is that day confused. their own perception of their own country with the perception that every one else in the world has americans proudly see themselves as beacons of democracy and liberty in the world. unfortunately, large parts of the rest of the world disagree with that, rightly or wrongly, they don't have the same view of america that americans have of themselves. and the 2nd mistake is that american governments, in american presidents always believe that they are starting with a blank seat. joe biden believes he can go around the world and lecture about democracy because he's not donald trump. but for most people outside of the united states, tromp biden obama. this is all america. there is a continuum where the american president believe they are starting with a blank canvas. that's not the case for most people around the world. what's happened in january this year? the storming of the capital is still part of what america represents, even if joe biden subsequently became president and represent a different vision in his view. for many people outside of america, it's still the same america, if they were all been very critical of biden but, but he has said himself is at back in favor. i think it was the democracy doesn't happen by accident. we have to defend it. we have to fight for it. we have to strengthen it. and we have to renew it is not just what he's doing now trying to do anyway. i yes, i think he's trying to be more humble. and i think a lot of what he says is quite good. does it resonate? does it arrive? do people even listen to him? i don't necessarily think so. and i think the, the way that democracy promotion typically works the way all the activities that are taught, typically called democracy promotion, where, you know, america is promoting an abstract concept. i don't think a particularly successful, as scott said before, you have to break down democracy into different things, into the rule of law, into transparency, into anti corruption into parts of development that are accountable to people. if you promote these things, you are moving towards democracy. but you're not necessarily promoting an abstract concept whenever you're promoting an abstract concept. i don't think it's particularly successful, and that's the problem with this initiative. it's called because it daniel freight, the former us ambassador opponent. he said, we've seen this movie before and it doesn't. and well, in the 1930 s, it's the 91st. he's all over again, he said, and there's no more urgent task than for democracies to renew themselves. well, again, let's get away from talking the talk and walk into walk. it is to be credited that if you talk about what has happened within the united states, within a year, despite a great deal of opposition, say from the republicans in the trumpets that you have an infrastructure proposal. one of the most ambitious in decades it is to be credited that there is a budget which may get past for 2 trillion dollars for social programs, for anti poverty programs, for environmental programs, it is to be credited by the ministration is taking action on climate change it has to be credited that issues like voting rights are being raised. so the idea that america's perfect, of course, not the credit where you can have an initiative within the countries. it has to be credited however, in other countries, what they're doing to try to build up security. this isn't just simply an american own process. so again, with respect to this idea, democracies are under threat. this isn't in 1930. this is the 21st century. we have specific challenges which are raised by powers like russia and china. be it should jang, be at hong kong b, russia threat to go into ukraine, which we face even right now. we have specific challenges with dick tutorial leaders, authoritarian leaders. some of them will be of this sort of one could talk, for example, about the trend. short return isn't from brazil to the philippines. but you deal with that with a very practical action, which is not just simply about national issues, but now transnational. because if we don't have action, which goes beyond the mouthpiece of democracy to talk about dealing with climate change, dealing with global trans dynamics. and yes, dealing with the global threat to political activism, or then again, you can talk about the 1900 thirty's, those days are gone. folks deal with the here and now. right. russ feingold, the fact is that democracy has a p r problem, doesn't it? because that around the world, in many countries it's associated with western hedge money validate the interesting thing there is speaking from asia. well, what the reaction is to certain recent events or even to this summit from countries in this part of the ra, a good example is the military. busy q that occurred in jamar at the outset of this year and on the, on people look on the on to take leadership. but does their history is not to criticize, were involved in the domestic politics or the domestic political systems of the member countries. so add to this point, the very limited response was not to invite the military government to attend the annual meeting for ozzy, and that was a big gesture when it comes to the diplomatic boycott of the olympics. we see a mixed reaction from countries in asia. some of them, especially the courses us allies my participate at some level, but at least in recent hours or days in the reaction, for example, from south korea has not been so enthusiastic to join the boy when it comes to the democracy of it. again, we don't see leaders in asia outside of china, of course, with their reaction. but in the more democratic countries, in this part of the world, the ones that are lot are the ones that we could safely say or not. so what they're actually do is you asked about this summit or, or really can do their part right here in asia to help spread the ideas that the body administration will be talking about during this on it. right? scala because it is a question you need half an hour for, but i can give you 60 seconds. what is the nature now? do you think of 21st century democracy and why is it under threat? what's happened? the nature 21st century democracy is still the nature of the 20th century democracy or 19th century democracy, or even 18th century democracy is it developed. and that is that me, my children, other people, their children, generations to come are able to participate in their society. politically, economically, socially that they have the security to do so that they are protected from abuses by those in power. why are democracies under threat? well, both from inside democracies and outside democracies, there are men. and occasionally women who want power. they want power, not for everybody. they want power for themselves, and to get that power, they will deny rights to people within their countries. they will put them in prison. they will deny the vote or it will be a meaningless vote and they will threaten other countries to try to extend their power. and the idea is that we are always vigilant about this. because democracy shouldn't just be a word. democracy should represent something which is precious in our day to day lives, which is the ability to express our opinions about things we do not like to hold the things that we do like and to do so on a community with others where we're free to do so without looking over our shoulders is someone who would try to deny a surpluses to period human that this, this fear of population that seems to be around. what actually is wrong with populism? does it not bring with it a democratic renewal? well, it can, and there's a scholarly debate about the term populism because 19th century, in the united states, for example, a lot of populist movements were in fact left wing movements that sought to empower people or people working on the land, people working in agriculture, etc. but the meeting has of course shifted, and what it stands for to day is typically far right. movements that are seeking to bypass democracy that are basically saying that they are representing the views of the people regardless of whether they actually do and that especially the protection of minorities which is so important. an element of democracy is less important than the supposed will of the people. so the i creating a situation where they're essentially pitting groups of people against each other, claiming to represent the majority. that's very dangerous because democracy is about the will of the people for sure. but as scott, lucas said, it's also about security and it's about protecting minorities. it's about the fact that if i have an outside point of view that the court of law is protecting my minority point of view as much as it is protecting the views of the majority. and populists are trying to deny that and trying to make that less important. russ feingold, a year of action in theory, follows. this is what it does. it follows the summit for democracy. can it mobilize sufficient or any political will for change? do you think very, very unlikely. we talked about some examples of countries during this program where the international community, or least the western democracies have concerns about the trajectory of the rule of law. democracy of the security of the person and sanctions are criticisms. multi lateral joint open letters and things like that rarely have in fact, you know, we have to go back when you can amik impact on the, the leaders themselves might, might be very direct occasions like that, frankly are, are quite rare in the united states to you know we have to be realistic, it's going into the mid term election cycle. how much time as president biden going to have for this initiative? how much time would vice president harris for? and then frankly, our secretary of state as well. he's very busy, we talked about ukraine, china issues the day to day issues of diplomacy that are going to consume us date of are. and then you say ok, well which other countries are going to help us take leadership in the coming mind to get it. it's very hard to be optimistic of any subs, give result. scott, last one to you. do you think democracies have a capacity for self correction? yes. if i didn't believe that i would go and hide in the bunker and just wait out what is to come? the fax matter is, is that when you talk it out, democracies you are talking about people. you're talking about people at the grassroots who are concerned about health concerned about education. concerned about their jobs. concerned about a roof over their heads. and to get that they need an effect to political system. there happened democracies who have not self corrected. the one thing i would say about the $900.00 thirty's, which is relevant today is we saw democracies that were in decline that. but the fact is, is that for all those abusive leaders we've talked about in this program for some of the hypocrisy, we talk about this program in countries around the world, from america to iran, to syria, to algeria, to brazil. we have seen people call for rights and continue to march. they've marched in russia even when they were threatened with persecution. they have martian me an morrow when they have been threatened with persecution. that will, that will to be empowered into how some type of control over one's lives in one's community that is never extinguished. and when that is never extinguished, there is always a hope for democracy. and gentlemen, it's been a great conversation, do appreciate it. thanks very much indeed for participating at. thank you too. all i guess that's peyton, human and russ feingold and, and scott lucas, the in the bombing. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website outage or a dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. i'll handle is at a j insights store. for me, nick log the whole team here into my for now sediment and development have altered the course of the revenge. it no longer flows to the sea. and around 10 years ago it became more susceptible to red tides. the gloom of al, he calls us discoloration in the water. i'm going to scoop some of his water. and you can see there's a rust colored tinge to it. tests by the fisheries department, show the l. he in the getting river is of the alexandria species which produces toxins. ra, sleep in a bra, him is a fisherman for malicious don't but district in collecting. in the 1990s the giddy river was clear. you could see the said, we didn't have any problems here. now the river is polluted and it smells bad. fisheries officials have issued notices, banning people from selling or eating malice, found along the getting river. the area affected by the red tide is small, but news of the algae bloom has affected seafood traders in the area. it was supposed to be a refugee, but south korea's brother's home was allegedly the scene of torture, drain, and even murder. one o one east investigates the crimes on those set to be behind them on al jazeera. for the 1st time since the lead up to the 2nd world war, the nobel peace prize is being awarded to gen, maria reza, and to meet shimoda tougher receiving the 2021. prior to that courageous contribution to freedom of expression in the philippines. and in russia, in an exclusive interview live here in oslo, we'll be speaking to this is lawyers about the challenges endangers they face doing their job. and if significance in protecting democracy, the nobel entity only on al jazeera, the u. s. is always of impact, the people around the world, people pay attention to what we thought here. and our designers very good. they're bringing the news to the world from here. ah lou. overcrowded trucks transporting my guns crashes in mexico, killing at least 53 people. want to be traffic to the u. s. ah. other pimpernel this is al jazeera life. abdullah also coming up to we've said, we'll meet at any time in any place. they are the ones who are not prepared to do it for you as envoy on are all intelligence era to ron, isn't ready for direct nuclear, a graduate and it's diplomat.

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