direct discussions of the best solution to such a complicated issue, we're prepared to meet with them face to face. we think it's far superior to indirect negotiations and we're dealing with something this complex with so much so much mistrust with so much potential for misunderstanding. so we've said we'll meet at any time in any place. they are the ones who are not prepared to do it for their own reasons. we think it's a mistake. us president joe biden has held a phone call with his ukranian counterpart in a show of support over the build up of russian troops along its border. but moscow denies its preparing to invite its neighbour. both countries accused the other of failing to engage in the pay for emergency services. in mexico say at least 49 people have died in a truck crash in the southern states of chia pass authorities. same most of the victims killed were migrants from honduras and several countries expand a booster vaccine program to contain covered 19 very and infections. the world health organization continues to oppose it. is that the way choices the priority should be to get everyone in the world vaccinated with these essential vaccine shots and leads to 14 people have been killed in the entangled province and became foster during an ambush on a convoy. both killed were believed to be a part of a government backed civilian power military group. it comes a day after the government resigned under public pressure over its failure to tackle violence in the region. and farmers in india have officially ended a year long protest after the government abandoned controversial agricultural reforms. the government has now made several confessions that guarantees farmers a minimum price for their projects. those are the headline states you now for the inside story. ah, why is the u. s. president, hosting a global summit on democracy? joe biden says he won't defend human rights and fight authoritarianism. or countries such as china and russia hadn't been invited to watch, will meet you chief. this is inside story. ah, i don't welcome to the program i'm nick clock. the united states betrays itself is one of the world's greatest democracies, its leaders travel the globe to spread values such as freedom of speech and human rights. but president joe biden says democracy is under siege from authoritarian regimes. so he's holding a 2 day virtual summit to try and give democracy a boost. it was criticized even before it began. the white house invited around a 110 countries, but russia, china, iran, and hungry were not on the list. biden courted at china's roth by inviting taiwan, which beijing regards as a breakaway province. poland is also participating despite the european union accusing its government of undermining the root of law and stripping of basic rights from minority. joe biden urged participants to reverse what he called an ongoing recession of democracy around the world. in the face of sustain alarming challenges to democracy, universal human rights and all around the world, democracy needs champions. and i wanted a host this summer because here is the, here in the united states. we know, as well as anyone that renewing our democracy and strengthening in our democratic institution requires constant effort. while the nell no profits of watchdog freedom house says democracy deteriorated at least 73 countries in 2020, that's the worst. in 15 years, rights activists and sudan min, mahler and hong kong in other places to have been prosecuted, jailed and forced into exile. china, who said its own democracy for him this week trying to lead is engaging say that one party government is more of a democracy than the united states. and critics of the u. s. a. it's in no position to lead on democracy while continuing to support autocratic rule as abroad and restricting voting rights at home. the. so let's bring in our guests in birmingham, in england, scott lucas emeritus professor at the university of birmingham from brussels in belgium. we have peter newman, senior fellow at the institute, and joining us from taiwan capital of type pay is asia political risk, unless ross find gold, a well warm welcome to each of you. so if i can solve the scotland, said the world, similarly in the throes of a democratic back track and rise apartments and rise of all thorough terrorism. democracy is perhaps on the way. and this is a good conversation to have, isn't it? hey, i'm a big fan of democracy. i am a big critic of countries that restrict political rights that put people in prison that provide the basics for some people, but not for all. but this is not the way in my opinion, to promote democracy. the way you promote democracy is by building up institutions . it's by insuring space for political participation, for all in the country. and it's by discussing with people in other countries, how you can work with them, civil society groups, journalists, activists, students. in other words, it's in the spirit of cooperation. democracy cannot just simply be shouted from the rooftops. it has to basically be developed on the ground. so my problem with the some of the democracies look, i'm all in favor with what the biden ministration is on. and trying to repair the united states after the catastrophe of the trump years, to show an example to others that american pact can be democratic. great. i'm all in favor of calling out countries and actually trying to organize to build up the possibility for people to be able to get space to protest within countries to claim their rights. for the case of democracy is not something you can pose it from the outside. you have got to walk the walk in terms of constructive action. for example, the anti corruption strategy put out or the white house this week. you walk the walk in, don't just simply talk to talk with a 2 day event which is quickly going to be exposed, i think, to criticism, and perhaps even richer will come on to the corruption issue. but before it even starts being human, one can say that some itself is not democratic. the guest list is selective. it excludes many yes, it does. but i think that's in the nature of things. and that's one of the problems with this particular initiative. it's worth pointing out that there was a similar initiative by america 20 years ago. madeline albright stopped at thing called the community of democracies and they had exactly the same problems that joe biden has now. then be deciding on who is a democracy and who is not there, lots of countries in the world that america wants to work with and that i think america should work with that are not perfect. democracies, a lot of countries in the middle east, jordan morocco, that are now feeling excluded because they don't fit into that particular category . on the other hand, there are countries that we shouldn't necessarily include in the current rose to democracies like poland who are included. so it creates a division that is not necessarily helpful. and that will create a lot of difficulties as we're trying to construct a pragmatic alliance. to countered the rising influence of china and peter, what happened to madeline albright community of monkeys of interest. while they had a couple of conferences, they will well intended every once book while of democracy and human rights. but it became very clear very quickly that despite being democracies, all of these countries had very different interest. and then guess what, 3 years later the iraq war happened in america's credibility as a beacon of democracy, basically was finished and no further events took place. interesting. busy jo biden's, vash, and russ feingold no turkey, no russia, ne, china, only iraq in israel as far as the middle east is concerned. this is not create just division, bolstering this cold war mentality is, as china would have, it of china not being invited is not a surprise. and the criticism that china is where other countries are making of the event. it's also not a surprise. yeah. the us and the other western democracies obviously are bit selective in who they consider their friends and who they consider worthy of criticism. and sometimes those definitions are a little bit unclear. are they got stuck? frankly, i'm in agreement with my colleagues as far as the advocacy of this event, i expect, within a few weeks or a few months, people forgot about this event, simply because it's coming at the end of the year. there's already been a busy few months of multilateral or bilateral meetings that attracted the global attention. and there are other forums, whether it's bilateral, multilateral or the work that n g n g o is due, or unilateral programs of the u. s. department in various countries that already covered this issue, pretty much the only thing i can bind you talked about doing this and some level. it's good to see our leaders actually carry out the commitments that they make. but other than that, it's really hard to see any tangible or long term results. come out of this meeting, right? we're trying to just seem to be very cross about it. old. certainly hit a nerve, it's held his own summit and claimed its own model of democracy issuing this paper . title, china, that democracy that works. but that's not going to get by reception in the united states corps who are probably in the other western democracies. there's 2 reasons for china's reaction. one is just the fact that taiwan was given in vacation and he's sending minister without portfolio and it's defacto a bachelor in the united states to participate. and then the other is the perception that this is really a me, the whole event is aimed at trying to, we're trying to influence in our growing influence around the world. so of course, china is going to react this way. you know, the amount of media coverage or statements by government officials in china and recent days is frankly been enormous. but almost similar to just holding the event . the advocacy of traders reaction is probably close to now. well, right, right. and especially when you consider the unit a 3, hong kong, private democracy figures that are just being convicted of act to them effectively . and chinese clustering towards taiwan, where you have no amount of summits or sanctions, which is a tool that the united states has been using against chinese officials with regard to a number of human rights issues. not as hong kong, but she and john into that as well. obviously this does not change the policy decisions on the chinese leadership. so same thing with the summit, us and the other countries attending to criticize china directly or indirectly. but again, it doesn't change the policy decisions of the chinese government. one thing i thought was interesting at the chinese ministry of foreign affairs, said that a single yard stick should not be used to measure diverse political systems in the world that democracy is not the only system that works. what do you make of that? scott? look at the end of the day. well, let me just say something specific about china. the whole initiative by china this week, which does show their rattle, the idea that china is a democracy. you can take that apart very quickly. i mean it the document collapses by saying, oh yes, it is a one party system. oh, but we have multi party participation in china. no, you don't. you have the communist party. they say, oh, well we have democracy, development will know the same document then says, but development is the priority. so we can pick apart the p r the chinese very, very quickly. but i think there's something important to make his response just saw this doesn't become the u. s. versus china, which is now conducted. and that is, i think we can all agree that no matter whether a person was in beijing where the person lives in london. whether they live in washington, whether they're in brazil, whether they're in south africa, whether they're in syria, they deserve the right to security. they deserve the right to be able to participate in their political system. they deserve responsible governments. they deserve not to be abused or detained. i think we can agree with that. so for the idea of china to simply say, oh, well, there's not just one way for democracy. fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about a basic regard for your own people, basic rights, whether it be through a constitution or through legal practices that are defended in china, should not be allowed to get away from that. right. unless you focus to the united states now and peter newman that they is, the 1 may well wonder how it is that the u. s. takes it upon itself to, to promote something that it is as struggling to defend at home. given that the rise of populism there and trumps ascendancy refusal to a democratic election and so on. yes, and i think there are 2 mistakes that america and americans, the american political class always makes. the 1st mistake is that they confused their own perception of their own country with the perception that every one else in the world has. americans proudly seed themselves as beacons of democracy and liberty in the world. unfortunately, large parts of the rest of the world disagree with that, rightly or wrongly, they don't have the same view of america that americans have of themselves. the 2nd mistake is that american governments, in american presidents always believe that they are starting with a blank seat. joe biden believes he can go around the world and lecture about democracy because he's not donald trump, but from most people outside of the united states. tromp biden obama. this is all america. there is a continuum where the american president believe they are starting with a blank canvas. that's not the case for most people around the world. what happened in january this year, the storming of the capital is still part of what america represents. even if joe biden subsequently became president and represent a different vision in his view. for many people outside of america, it's still the same america. if they were all been very critical of by them but, but he has said himself and said back in favor, i think it was a democracy doesn't happen by accident. we have to defend it. we have to fight for it. we have to strengthen it and we have to renew it is not just what he's doing now trying to do anyway. i yes, i think he is trying to be more humble. and i think a lot of what he says is quite good. does it resonate? does it arrive? do people even listen to them? i don't necessarily think so. and i think the, the way that democracy promotion typically works the way all the activities that are typically called democracy promotion. where, you know, america is promoting an abstract concept. i don't think a particularly successful, as scott said before, you have to break down democracy into different things, into the rule of law, into transparency, into anti corruption into parts of development that are accountable to people. if you promote these things, you are moving towards democracy. but you're not necessarily promoting an abstract concept whenever you're promoting an abstract concept. i don't think it's particularly successful, and that's the problem with this initiative and scholarly daniel for the former us ambassador opponent. he said, we've seen this movie before and it doesn't. and well, in the 1930 s, it's the 901st, he's all over again, he said, and there's no more urgent task than for democracies to renew themselves. well, again, let's get away from talking the talk and walk in the walk. it is to be credited that if you talk about what has happened within the united states, within a year, despite a great deal of opposition, say from the republicans in the trumpets that you have an infrastructure proposal. one of the most ambitious in decades it is to be credited that there is a budget which may get past for 2 trillion dollars for social programs, for anti poverty programs, for environmental programs. it is to be credited by the ministration is taking action on climate change. it has to be credited that issues like voting rights are being raised. so the idea that america's perfect, of course, not the credit where you can have an initiative with in the countries. it has to be credited however, in other countries, what they're doing to try to build up security. this isn't just simply an american own process. so again, with respect to this idea, democracy are under threat. this isn't the 1900 thirds. this is the 21st century. we have specific challenges which are raised by powers like russia and china. be action jang, be at hong kong via russia's threat to go into ukraine, which we face even right now. we have specific challenges with dick tutorial leaders. authoritarian leaders, some of them will be of this sort of one could talk, for example, about the trend. short return isn't from brazil to the philippines. but you deal with that with a very practical action which is not just simply about national issues. but now transnational because if we don't have action, which goes beyond the mouthpiece of democracy, to talk about dealing with climate change, dealing with global pandemic se, and yes, dealing with the global threat to political activism. then again, you can talk about the 1900 thirty's, those days are gone. folks deal with the here and now. right. russ feingold that the fact is that democracy has a p r problem. doesn't that because that around the world in many countries it's associated with western hedge money validate the interesting thing there is speaking from asia. well, what the reaction is to certain recent events or even to this summit from countries in this part of the role of a good example is the military. busy q that occurred in march at the outset of this year and on the, on people look on the on to take leadership. but does their history is not to criticize, were involved in the domestic politics or the domestic political systems of the member countries. so add to this point, the very limited response was not to invite the military government to attend the annual meeting for ozzy, and that was a big gesture when it comes to the diplomatic boycott of the olympics. we see a mixed reaction from countries in asia. some of them, especially the courses us allies my participate at some level, but at least in recent hours or days. the reaction, for example, from south korea has not been so enthusiastic to join the boy when it comes to the democracy of it. again, we don't see leaders in asia outside of china, of course, with their reaction. but in the more democratic countries, in this part of the world, the ones that are lot are the ones that we could safely say or not. so what they're not showing through jazz to go about this summit or, or really can do their part right here in asia to help spread the ideas that the body administration will be talking about during this on it. right? scala because it is a question you need half an hour for i can give you 60 seconds. what is the nature now? do you think of 21st century democracy and why is it under threat? what's happened? the nature 21st century democracy is still the nature of 20th century democracy or 19th century democracy, or even 18th century democracy as it developed. and that is, that me, my children, other people, their children, generations to come, are able to participate in their society politically economically, socially that they have the security to do so that they are protected from abuses by those in power. why are democracies under threat? well, both from inside democracies and outside democracies, there are men. and occasionally women who want power. they want power, not for everybody. they want power for themselves. and to get that power, they will deny rights to people within their countries. they will put them in prison. they will deny the vote or it will be a meaningless vote and they will threaten other countries to try to extend their power. and the idea is that we are always vigilant about this. because democracy shouldn't just be a word. democracy should represent something which is precious in our day to day lives, which is the ability to express our opinions about things we do not like to hold the things that we do like and to do so on a community with others where we're free to do so without looking over our shoulders, if someone who would try to deny us or voices to period human that this, this fear of population that seems to be around. what actually is wrong with populism? does it not bring with it a democratic renewal? well, it can and is a scholarly debate about the term populism because 19th century, in the united states, for example, a lot of populist movements were in fact left wing movements that sought to empower people. people working on the land, people working in agriculture, etc. but the meaning has of course shifted and what it stands for to day is typically far right. movements that are seeking to bypass democracy that are basically saying that they are representing the views of the people regardless of whether they actually do and that especially the protection of minorities which is so important. an element of democracy is less important than the supposed will of the people. so the i creating a situation where they're essentially pitting groups of people against each other, claiming to represent the majority. that's very dangerous because democracy is about the will of the people for sure. but as scott, lucas said, it's also about security and it's about protecting minorities. it's about the fact that if i have an outside point of view that the court of law is protecting my minority point of view as much as it is protecting the views of the majority. and populists are trying to deny that and trying to make that less important. russ feingold, a year of action in theory, follows. this is what it does. it follows the summit of democracy. can it mobilize sufficient or any political will for change due thank very, very unlikely. we've talked about some examples of countries during this program where the international community, or at least the western democracies, have concerns about the trajectory of the rule of law. democracy of the security of the person and yet sanctions are criticisms multilateral joint open waters and things like that rarely have in fact, you know, we have to move back when you can amik impact on the the leaders themselves might, might be very direct book cases like that frankly, are quite rare in the united states to, you know, we have to be realistic. it's going into the mid term election cycle. how much time as president biden going to have for this initiative? how much time would vice president harris for? and then frankly, our secretary of state as well. he's very busy. we talked about ukraine, china issues the day to day issues of diplomacy that are going to consume the u. s . department. and then you say ok, well which other countries are going to help the us take leadership in the coming months? again, it's very hard to be optimistic of any subs. give result. scott, last one, do you, do you think democracies have a capacity for self correction? yes, if i didn't believe that i would go and hide in the bunker and just wait out, what is to come? the fact the matter is, is that when you talk it out, democracies you are talking about people. you're talking about people at the grassroots who are concerned about health concerned about education, concerned about their jobs, concerned about a roof over their heads. and to get that they need an effective political system. there have been democracies who have not self corrected. the one thing i would say about the 1900 thirty's, which is relevant today as we saw our democracies that were in decline. but the fact is that for all those abusive leaders, we've talked about in this program for some of the hypocrisy, we talk about this program in countries around the world, from america to iran, to syria, to algeria, to brazil. we have seen people call for rights and continue to march. they've marched in russia even when they were threatened with persecution. they have martian me am, or when they have been threatened with persecution. that will, that will to be empowered and how some type of control over one's life and one's community that is never extinguished. and when that is never extinguished, there is always for democracy. gentlemen, it's been a great conversation to appreciate it. thanks very much indeed for participating. thank you to all, i guess that's peter newman and russ feingold and scott lucas in him. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again. anytime by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is a j inside story. for me, nick clark, the whole team here is to buy from. ah, news. news. news in less than a year, capital will host the middle east 1st. well, in preparation the country is staging a major form and the 16 nations going head to head in 6 papa phil stadiums 2022 will keep you across the action as capital prepared for the regions. the biggest ever event the fee for our cuts on al jazeera. oh, there's a lot more to al jazeera than t v. with our website mobile app, social media, and podcast. al jazeera digital is the world award winning online content. and each week on portal will bring you the very best of it. they're trying to frighten the people to be to go somewhere else. the truth is that it got nowhere else to go. so if you missed it online, catch it here with me sound gartman on al jazeera. what happens in new york. 1 has implications all around the world. it's international perspective with the human touch zooming way in, and then pulling back out again, a palestinian social and political campaigner in iceland. she became the 1st woman here to speak about human rights or in american dutch business woman who's built a multi $1000000.00 business, but helps disadvantage young people and the government. nothing is impossible if you believe in yourself. i'll just see the world meet 2 are of women who become successful away from home, arabs abroad, the activist of the, all to put her on all to 0. ah, hello, i'm emily anglin, in dough harvey's at the top stories on al jazeera, around nuclear talks in vienna have resumed the band and administration has warned of new sanctions. if diplomacy fails, the us envoy for iran says washington is ready to hold direct discussions with tay run. robert malley spoke with our white house correspondent, kimberly help it. she started by asking him why the u. s. is still moving to.

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