Countrys political future outside the capital and undermine tier gas was fired at protesters calling for greater civilian control over the government. Hip morgan has moved from cotton, the interior ministry, and i was that it has already put police around he main vital facilities of the government, including the National Legislative assembly which is currently vacated because there is no functioning but Legislative Assembly as part of the power sharing agreement thats yet to be formed, but nevertheless, processes took to that building to show that they wanted these government to be formed. Their reports of not only appeared as being user on processes, but live ammunition as well. Hospitals as are, have already been listed for injured people to go seek treatment that avail concerned that because with 2 opposing fights here, calling for protests, there will be violence as the day progresses. Now, libby is unity. Government has stressed its commitment to a cease fire to president ial elections in december. As an International Conference and tripoli, its been hosting delegates from the us, russia, turkey, france, and egypt as it seeks the port ahead of the vote. A planned parliamentary poll has been delayed by the to brook based house of representatives. The u. N. Says it set up a special trust to supply afghanistan with urgently needed cash. The head of the Agencies Development program says that will be tapping into funds that were frozen after the taliban took over. India is celebrating administering 1000000000. 00 cove at 19 vaccine doses around 75 percent of adults there have now had at least one shot, but just about one 3rd of the population of fully vaccinated. Well, those are the headlines. Ill be back with a news our here on al jazeera for you after inside story. Stay with us. Ah. Brazils president dismissed colbert 19 as a little flew. Now a Senate Inquiry says j are both an arrow should be charged with crimes against humanity. What is his prosecution likely . And could this lead to further political divisions . This is inside story. Ah. Hello and welcome to the program. Im hammer, jim jerome, more than 600000 brazilians have died of covered 19 the worlds 2nd highest death toll present gyre, boston r. O famously dismissed the corona virus as a little flew, he touted misinformation and unproven treatments even after contracting the virus himself. Now, a Senate Inquiry says boss, an arrow should face charges including crimes against humanity. The panel accused him of negligence. And intentionally letting the virus spread, both an arrow says he is guilty of nothing. A Senate Committee will now vote on the report will get to our guest shortly. First, this report from monica jak f. While a senate panel was reading the long list of accusations against j will so narrow, the president was a north east. Brazil been cheered by his supporters. A horrible voice of the people is the voice of god. Also, nato says he did nothing wrong. Hes criticized the senate panel, which has been investigating the governments handling of the pandemic. Its recommended the president to be charged with 10 different crimes, including crimes against humanity, but also an arrow is accused of downplaying the pandemic, which cost 600000. 00 deaths in brazil. The worlds 2nd largest toll. The report says thousands of lives could have been saved if the president had taken the virus seriously. Instead he criticized locked downs, encouraged Mass Gatherings made a point of not wearing a mask and delayed mass vaccination. The report will be voted upon next tuesday. It will then be submitted to brazils attorney general, who has 30 days to determine whether he accepts the charges or not senator or matters. These were presided. The panel told al jazeera, there is enough evidence to put bull sonata behind bars. If the attorney general does nothing, well go to the Supreme Court and also to the International Court of justice of the hague. We will continue to put pressure to make sure justice is done, or seattle says the investigation is the loss of time. People thought who knew it did nothing except spread grudge and hatred among brazilians. But that opinion is strongly contested by Many Brazilians who lost their loved ones during the pandemic. And my doctors and scientists who say the coven 19 probe, is historic, because it points the finger at all those responsible for the tragedy. Monica in our give, ill just sierra morales bring in our guess in south palo gustavo ribeiro, journalist, and founder of the brazilian report in york, england. Jaw newness, senior lecturer and International Relations at the university of york. And in washington. D. C. Polo sotero. Distinguished fellow at the Woodrow Wilson center is brazil institute. Welcome to the program, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story paulo, let me start with you today. How damaging is this report . And how likely is it that president bull scenario would ultimately face trial . As a result, you will face trial, but not this year, not next year. I believe he will face trial was he is defeated in the president ial election next year, which is a likely scenario. He will be war the crimes that were. Ready listed by the congressional committee, but obviously the rational committee report, butch, the record straight at this man, committed enormous atrocities. He, him and his associates. And he will respond politically at there. He is obviously a sorry, shields political shoot for him. Organized in congress by his workers. So the idea that the branches, this could be impeach, it is far fact. It was probably, its very like gustavo, as damning as this report is. It could also have been much worse. There was an earlier draft version that i believe had called for authorities to indict the president and others listed on charges of mass murder as well. Why were those potential charges removed from the final report and what impact does that have now . Well, some of the senators who are a part of the committee believe that these accusations were very hard to prove in the court of law and would seem like a legal stretch and make it easier for resist. Prosecutor general, who is someone very much aligned with the variables and added to shell for or stall the process altogether. So they believe that presenting fewer chargers but charters that are more substantiated by the incredible amount of evidence that this committee has dug during the 6 months. The has operated would be from the legal standpoint, a much more sound approach. Remembering that a lot of the senators have pre or Prior Experience with law enforcement. So they are experience the presiding over. Ready inquiries, the thing is also not the last then with the legal aspects. Hes also very concerned about the court of Public Opinion and for the government. The fact that the counts of genocide and murder. Ready were struck, struck down is some sort of a when, even if the report is skate as casing as it could be towards the administration. Because the in the words of one government, the show everyone knows what genocide and murder is. Ready and that would be a much worse look for the president and in the opinion of some Government Officials did the remain counts or lega leave. That will be much more difficult to explain to the average voter. Ready come next years election jaw. Gustavo there mentioned that from his vantage point, president wilson aro, would probably be more concerned about the court of Public Opinion right now. Let me ask you about that. How are his pull numbers right now . What does the public think now that theyve been exposed to this report . Well, busy supposing our popularity says in all time low. Despite his efforts, his recent efforts to solidify and only space but also to enhance and increase the space by developing renewed cash hand out program. The truth is that hes popularity. Levels of acceptance are very low. Opinion polls suggest a very strong lead for a former president , tools to for the next. For the next election. We currently, according to different opinion polls, what we would have both in our remaining to level of 20 percent, you know, the general election votes. I think the question is, as, as gustavo is saying, theres a lot of questions that pertain to the court of Public Opinion. Theres also, i think, the way in which this report has just been presented might shake up the precarious balance upon which his government rest. So the current, the current government depends on the support of parliamentarians and the support of parliamentarians comes out to cost and whenever to present it is a tax. And whenever the president is in a situation of low popularity, the cost a premium to be paid to parliamentary for to, to get their support increases. And what, what will likely happen is that this may have an impact, not simply on the general population, but also on the level of support that goes in are only currently enjoys from the government. So as a one of my colleagues in the panel was saying, the impeachment proceedings depend on the action of speaker to Lower Chamber or to lead and this person has so for now has been sitting on 120 plus you could request the question then becomes or whether is this report may give strength to new or to previous impeachment proceedings to be, to be examined. Palo eyes, are you reacting a lot to what the jaw was saying there . So i wanted to see if you wanted to jump in. And i also want to ask you, when it comes to what joy was saying about the next election and the popularity right now of lula to silver. Do you think that this ultimately benefits mr. Da silva and the long term right now it does. The election is a year from now. This is a lifetime in politics, in any country for president little obviously has the following of 40 to the, at the minimum of a 3rd that he had. But this game has not started yet. The electoral game with up in march, april next year, and also model and lola maintain a depend. Electra lee of this very polarized situation, do not dismissable. So now he will, he was elected with work over arnold class in the Business Community. Now there are movements in the Business Community trying to foster a 3rd way or so called 3rd way, a candidate between the land, both on im not sure if that will work, but yes, president lula is back. He can run next year, but do not dismiss the capacity of both on how to revive both should know should troll, earlier next year or in the 1st half of next year, a much tight race. Remember ball so novel has the power of the bush. He is not worried about fisco risk ability. He will spend anything and everything in order to be in a good position to get reelected. Many people in brazil in 2018, believe that he would never be elected because he, he represents a brand of politics that not used to in the zeal he was elect, dont do not dismissal. So not yet, but yes, lar and that one final point, a ruler in order to be elected to prevail, he will have to make alliances. Remember one thing, the 2 times the Workers Party who ran successfully for the presidency, president , ruler, president , you most staff, they run in alliance with a very moderate conservative candidates, which was a bad indicator of lula. Timmer in the case of gilmer. And these are very conservative lead there is that represent a right wing gap because you know, society. So this is, this is a, still a complicated game, not clear. And i will remain like that for the foreseeable future. Gustavo looks like you want to jump in some of these ads. Yeah, please go ahead. No, i just want to read something about impeachment because i do not believe that the teacher is on the table right now. Busy for a few reasons, one, theres very little time left in both of us term and these processes take a long time. So it would be very convoluted and we have to bear in mind that next year, congress, we only work for half of the midway point of the year after that congressman will be more focused on their own races. So the. Ready congressional works will be disrupted at this moment. And theres also another point is that everyone who is vying for the presidency is not really wanting both or that should be impeached. There is this sentiment that the worse the more wounded ball so that it gets to the ballot ball to the poles in october and next year, the easier it will be to beat him. But i agree with bob, this is a very dangerous calculation. Lets remember that people try to do the same strategy with lula in 2005 when his administration was facing corruption charges for bribing. Congressman for a majority. But then the economy turns created a lot of fuel goods, factors, and lula was reelected quite easily. Is as a matter of fact, and im not saying that the same thing could happen with also the other, but like i said, hes not off the game because both of those Approval Ratings eloping. Busy are much more connected to the health of the brazilian economy, rather than to hispanic. We suppose, as bad as it was. Lets remember that last year he enjoyed the peak of his Approval Ratings. When the government handouts were given, were having a huge effect on peoples purchasing power, and then his Approval Ratings start to trend. Since september, last year, when the handouts were halves, and then in december they were expired and there was a form of hires in which we saw poverty rates climbing, hunger, Food Insecurity rise in brazil. So if both managers even blowing up the budgets to improve peoples quality of life, then it has pretty much on the game and he will try to at least get to the 2nd round and get anti left sentiment to the rest of the jobs for him. Jo out whether or not president both scenario is ultimately charged or indicted. Whether hes in office or out of office. Do you think that its at all likely that federal prosecutors in brazil would go after any of the other people named in the report . Yes, it is. Likely it would be, would be hard to understand such, such an encompassing report did not really do not result in any. So present was an arrow in this report has been inducted for 9 crimes. Hes a single this. The person who has more crimes identified in there or but there are countless others around 6066 or 65. Others were also named on this report for numerous types of crimes. So it would be surprising you just nothing happens. And as a result of this, obviously it all depends much on federal prosecutor general, the prosecutor general, who is also a supporter at the moment. But i dont think this prosecutor general, i was to others. I dont think you can simply sit on this report because what one possible scenario that we can witness is that this prosecutor general is also being challenged and being questioned by lots of state level. Prosecutors who are unhappy with his reluctance to confront us in our because if there are been numerous occasions in which both on our accusations, against those of novels because of the actions or rather you missions of this prosecutor general. So one could see one possible scenario, which there was a mobilize issue of state level prosecutors that they would start their own investigations into specific individuals name to this report. Such as, for example, ceos of companies or under audrey individuals. And this could put pressure on the prosecutor general to start acting more decides this week. Ready and in response to the very serious accusations that are, that have been identified in your. Ready report so i mean, i would be, i find it very surprising if nothing happens if nothing comes up or whatever. And i think im in agreement that the most serious crime is at present unlikely. Ready that at the there will be an indictment particularly on the most serious offences that are esteem. Ready is being charged with i suggest for example. Ready a crimes against you manage all the lesser. Thats a responsibility of International Criminal court. But for example, the crime demick leading to death. This is a very serious accusation that im not certain i dont think the conditions are created for an immediate indictment, palo there has been rising anger in brazil because of the governments response to the pandemic. There has been this very emotional testimony thats been given by relatives of a people who died because of coven 19. Is the overall public sentiment in the country, that the federal government has been completely negligent, and perhaps, perhaps even criminal in its response to the coven. 19 pandemic. Yes, the short answer is yes. I think those more than 600 people died of cold in brazil, a country that has a health infrastructure, Public Health infrastructure. That is pretty decent, but was not allowed to work with function this time by meant that negates the existence of gov. It could say that was on. I was history. It is. I am time careful to joe who does. He has the power of the purse, brazil is a very conservative nation. And this game, the electoral game has not yet started really. And that the left by the with very divided. And we shall see what happens in this dynamic. If the more moderate fort steve forces are capable of producing a more central this figure, a viable candidate, it doesnt look like it will happen. Doesnt look like now. But did develop meant this development could take shape. One important point on the positive side, i be a little bit dairy here, but the fact is that e c 2 shows in brazil work, they continue to work. They are doing what they are supposed to do. It is sometimes a very difficult to watch whats happening, but this report from the sent from the congress that shows that yes, the representatives of the people are, are doing the job. They know what is the populations expect a shot of them. And they are reacting by investigating, by producing with such as this, gustavo, where do things stand in the country right now when it comes to code . 19, when it comes to the state of the pandemic . How is the vaccine rule outgoing . What about infection rates at the moment . Well, brazil, lets say the best moment of depend amick since april of last year. September has been the least deadly mouth since october of last year. And data has trends down soon speaking in march of this year. And thats mainly because of faxing because the government stalled deliberately stalled as the corporate inquiry showed. Vaccine purchases from pfizer for modern manufacturers like cited back. But once the state level agents started to push for the vaccine production locally, that pressure the government into rolling out of actions and. Busy the more political pressure ramped up, the more the government was forced to increase rollouts. So now we have about 50 percent, just over 50 percent of the population fully immunized and 3 quarters with at least one dose in several big urban centers have vaccination rates right next to a 100 percent. When it comes to the adult population. Joe, we only have a couple of minutes left. I just want to ask you about the enormous he of this report and the potential impact. First and foremost, is there any precedent in brazil, of a print of a president or, or another Government Official being held to account for Decision Making during either a pandemic or a Public Health crisis, not to do 6. To my knowledge, please correct me following to my knowledge. This is the most far reaching in the most encompassing indictments of President Office and this, and i think one of one of the, one of the peculiarities of the report that does it covers a broad re crime. So we have common crimes, crimes, friends of the common law, civil law. And then we have crimes of so called crimes of responsibility. We talk the crimes that are committed by those old office and as a result of their but theyre Holding Office and then we have crimes against humanity. I think this is unheard of to my, to my knowledge of politics is unheard of that you have such an encompassing range of crimes identified in a president in office. So it is a very strong. It is a powerful and damning indictment of the present. But i think, and i think we should also bear this in mind. This is not simply about those in our i think what, what does report shows and what the investigation is . The 6 month investigations of this, of this commissioner demonstrated is an entire ecosystem around the president , including private actors, including a scientists, including Civil Servants in the ministry of how were all conspired. Or there were a lot of crimes. Be committed in a lot of actions and emissions being committed because hes not simply about the government omitting to act in response to the pandemic. This is also about wilful actions that were taken by a range of actors. Some of them with knowledge, with the present knowledge that led to Public Health disaster, brazil is faced. So this is an indictment of an entire ecosystem of private parallel cabinets that are surrounded himself with that would advise him on, for example, the use of iraq, the court on denying or infringing as social distance measures that would that wilfully or delayed the purchase of backseat so a number of the delay joining the facility, w h o products is guilty. So all of this can be ultimately the buck stops at at a resident. But i think this is also a baffling argument of an entire political and Economic System around the president. And this is whats more, one of the most important conclusions to be taken of this report. All right, well we have run out of time, so were gonna have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much to all of our guests. Gustavo ribeiro, just jo nunez and palo sotero and thank you for watching. 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