President Joe Biden is told israels prime minister that he expects a significant De Escalation in the offences on Kansas Spokeswoman said the human missing yahoo was told by Joe Biden. It was an important step towards reaching a seas for a white House Correspondent kimberly hawkesss war for washington d. C. He is not calling for an immediate cease fire, which is what many in the president s democratic party on Capitol Hill are looking for, and have been demanding themselves and pressuring their president to ask for. Instead the read up says they have a detailed discussion about the state of events in gaza. Still what we can see and diplomatic speak is an incremental step forward. Because youll remember just the earlier in the week that the u. S. President was insisting that there was support for a cease fire. So weve now gone a step further, but there still is not this outright call for one. The European Union has taken a step towards relaxing tourists and travels with its just right side the blog. The basset is back plans to locally vaccinated travelers to visit europe, Book And Post strict measures last year to contain the corona vargas. Meanwhile, francis merging himself restriction is people that are in join cathy terraces once again, hes in a non essential shop source. Reopening people can stay at lisa and as the night the curfew. The pushback from 7 to 9 pm migrants are continuing to travel from rural co Spanish Enclave and north africa. Around 8000 people have crossed into the region of suitor, either by sea. Over walking around the course doesnt have also reached livia space, or the enclaves European Union is urging morocco to stop people from making the trip Spanish Government already sent back many of the recent arrivals and those are the headlines. Keep it here and ill just see where the stream is next. Talk to Al Jazeera. We are. Were attacking ringo. And now theyre attacking everyone in me on monday you regret was like, gosh, we listen. Absolutely. Nigeria with a woman present, it would be great. We meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on sir. Ah, hi, answer me, okay, today on the stream could blocking out the sun actually help reduce the temperature down here on us. Let me show you what i mean. For instance, you could have material pumped into as stratosphere, that material could reflect the suns rays or solar energy all the way back to the sun. Meaning the, we down here, a cat cooler. That is a very basic would Commentary Understanding of solar G O Engineering. There are pros and cons, though, unknowns and unknowns. There is a debate. Lets take a look. Should we be pursuing Sola Geo Engineering . The answer is that we just dont know what we do. Notice that the impact climate change are serious and getting worse. And then were not doing all we need to do to address the climate crisis. So would you engineering might be a useful part of the portfolio of responses, but it also entails a wide range of poorly understood risks. A well designed Research Program can help us understand those ris and whether or not solar G O Engineering deserves the spot in the portfolio of climate change responses. So look, do you engineering is a be dangerous idea. It is messing with a global climate system. It is basically just about from pressing some of the symptoms of climate change. It is not doing anything about the root causes and it comes with tremendous risk for global communities and ecosystems. So instead of pressing on high risks, technol fixes what would be should be doing as get out of fossil fuels. That means coal, oil, and gas, and not big spending, any of that infrastructure. And theres really no way we can do away out of the climate crisis. So i guess and nodding their heads like after shaking the headset, the debate for good. Hello david. Hello, angelie kelly. Really nice to have you on the stream. David, reintroduce yourself trying to national audience . Im david keith, them professor at harvard in public policy and also mentioned hearing. I worked on this topic, i worked on climate for about 30 years. Nice to have a hello angela. Tell everybody you all what you do. Hi, be mine and thank you for me for having me on the show. My name is angela mitchell mclennan, im and i know you want to see the New Delhi in there. I havent really done the local engineering. My interest in the space from abortion thats interested in climate change and the solutions that we are looking at to do. But its great to have you and kelly, please introduce yourself. I international audience are watching right now. Hi sammy, its good to be here. My name is Kelly Ones are im the Executive Director of the 3 year old nonprofit organization called silver lining. And our Focus And Learning is near term climate risk. So we drive our research, we work with government stakeholders, numbers of the public use organizations to look at expanding our portfolios options to address climate risk in the next 30 to 40 years where we may have some gaps that might not be addressed in other ways. Thank you, kelly. Thank you. Actually thank you david and audience. I know you have thoughtfulness. I know youve got opinions and maybe the a couple of things that you want to ask our line. Now pass, guess, jumping to the Comment Section and you can be part of this discussion. The idea kelly and david that solar Geo Engineering may well be a climate change solution. David, you go fast. So solution is a loaded word and then picks up exactly on the critique you heard, which is the idea that its the sol solution. Nobody in this debate whos remotely sensible thanks. Its a solution. I just put that on here for what it may be is a way to substantially reduce risks over the next generation in ways that we cannot achieve by emissions cuts alone. So maybe that the combination of emissions cuts and Soda G O sharing could be significantly safer. Particularly for the worlds most vulnerable, that would be emissions cuts alone, but no single thing as a solution. Even emissions cuts alone and our solution cuz we clearly need adaptation. A complicated problem. My climate change has many different things we need. One of which may be this technology, any one of the things that we found as we were putting the Show Scatter the stream so together was trying to find out all of the different ways that maybe you could reflect off the sun, the suns radiation, the energy so you could call our climate if that was possible. Im looking here on my laptop marine cow brightening Science Feasibility and applying for research. Can you tell us what marine cow brightening is certainly, and i appreciate your characterization. We dont tend to refer to these techniques are blocking the sun, but rather increasing the reflection of sunlight. So relatively modest amount of increase in the reflection of sunlight of clouds, of particles in the atmosphere can produce quite a large object in terms of heat energy. Moving out of your system and the marine prod, brightening the idea is based in the image that you showed on observations from things that already happen in the system today, where particles from emissions and natural sources mixed with clouds in ways that make them slightly brighter. So in the image here are the streaks that you see in the clouds. Those bright streaks are actually created by the emission from ship and globally. Today, scientists believe that the totality of the particles in a mission, not the particles that produce Greenhouse Gas facts. But those sort of dirtier kind of pollution particles. One of the side effects is that they mixed with clouds in this way. And globally are, are thought to be creating something of a Cooling Effect that we dont understand very well. The idea behind the marine corp brightening is to use a cleaner or more benign material. Like seesaw, particles from Ocean Spray and Sea Water Bright and clouds over the ocean, better particularly susceptible to the effect. And its thought, although theres the so im going to be on the feel. If last me in the bit. Right. Youve lost me. Ok. I lost a little bit. So help me get back on track. What a you this is me. You can hear me thinking now live on her. All right, so if you were explaining what, what thing goes up into the stratosphere to help cool off, theoretically, what it, what are you going up in it, in marine cod brightening materials, going into the lower atmosphere. So its coming up from the surface, right, and it marine cloud bright. The proposal is its a Salt Spring thats generated from the water ok sprayed over the ocean into low line cloud. And so it brightens patches of these clouds in a way that reflects large amounts of sunlight back to feast in a way that could produce the global Cooling Effect. Thank you for speaking slightly, that just a. Yeah, the way, im just, i think kelly, just saying, angela, so this is, this is fascinating. Theres so much Research And Science going on here. Why would you be concerned . So i think the 1st thing to your life is that, you know, we are to get on the spot where youre hurtling towards a claim within what you see climate scientists and what you see me cause have mean its all aware of that. But the point is that there are 2 camps of talked on by the we need to pause, you know, do engineering research. One can say that, you know, we dont know enough about to do engineering and it could potentially be an option that because you are in case of a climate in which fee i. So we need to know more about it. So we need more research. The other can, which also consist of a disinfect, dis, it consists of environmental policy, exports, and also other governments, such as the United Kingdom that has put out Statement Thing that come to the source. That is really be productive. We feel that need know enough, or they need to make the statements that we dont need more. So the judge even such because it is likely to cause more detriment than benefit to certain sections of the population. So the question do early on told you engineering the thought you said maybe to be a point in the coach where you stop and ask us is when do we know enough to make this call it on . Where do we need to progress with the thought . The point is that so long, you actually cannot be in the quest to make it a vocal between you shouldnt, despite all the think i dont think it is, i think. But heres what i think we know with real confidence. Theres an enormous amount of research now over a decade and a half, the suggested the biggest drivers of global kind of risks are peak temperatures. And there are especially drivers for the worlds poorest. They kill people. They may people last economically productive and they make it harder to learn literally. The one thing we know from every single model, no exceptions about solar geo assuring is it would reduce p temperatures and do it in a way thats pretty uniform. Its not like theres some group assigned as a model that shows that doesnt trip happen. All Model Show that would happen. So thats the potential, the only serious paper that looked at the effect of this technology on say, global inequality showed that it would dramatically reduce global Income Inequality and would likely reduce global death from the waves. Now, to be clear, theres a big set of risks and the st. Keenan, this researching this has in a way that i think is wonderful. Been often the very 1st to raise those risks from the beginning. But quantitative answers matter. And despite the kind of stuff you heard in the lead in say, from the lady from her goal, there is not evidence that the risks are really big compared to the benefits. In fact, we now have many kind of papers from researchers around the world on many of the key risks. You shouldnt trust any one scientists. You should trust a group of people that, that, that surrounds the world. And hes not the, we know that each of the rest that we looked at, the Air Pollution Risk from doing this, the ozone risk, etc. Theyre real. And the Community Isnt one of the 1st commit to talk about this risk. But they look relatively small compared to the benefits and to me, that is the reason to take it seriously. And i think we have to be very careful. But people who live are pretty rich, will far from the equator. Kind of dismissing this when theyre not the ones who are going to suffer the most very not coming hills going to so, so i think, i mean one of the points that they would need is that nice modern suggest that so let us hearing could be beneficial for certain section, i mean it could be beneficial for beneficial for my new population in the future if you want to implement it. But i think its important to highlight that basically the resource thats being done in the lodge doing is being done to simulations in climate models, which helps us understand the impact of food you engineering on the, on the system. So scientists that work on, on the more news have recently also produced the people that missed the radio on. So i think these in the models and the spectacle highlighted challenges in determining the impacts of your ingenuity on nuclear regional climate conditions. So i mean that i like even with that is the 1st thats happening right now. Its not taking into account in Order Region and factors. So, i mean, theyre not nearly dependent that theyre not perfectly depend be true. Its the same size. Im exactly the same model, just a sec, as, as we use for understand the impacts of C O 2. So just when, when we add C O 2 to the atmosphere, we change the climate. We also camper date. Exactly what will happen locally. We cant do it for either. Its the same underlying science. You cant dismiss the science and suggest solar geometry and might be useful and accept besides as just climate as a big risk. Can i, can i open the conversation up a little bit more because we have people online who also have some questions and, and some thoughts. Im just gonna go to silly aunt who is on twitter. She says, id be interested to know who decides if we go ahead wave solo, Geo Engineering or not, the entire world is invested. What if there is a 20 Percent Chance of causing damage . Who gets the vote . Ok, lets take that chance. Kelly. So thank you for that question. So thats a terrific question. We believe that this field is a field where scientific assessment is really important. Open science that allows the stakeholders from around the world to look at the information is really important. And that governance, Government Engagement is key. So in silver lining, we work with the u. S. Science agencies and the u. S. Government to help develop a scientific assessment past. And were hopeful that you work into un arena as well to develop a scientific Assessment Path that helps stakeholders and government representatives make these decisions in an open and constructive way. Scientific information is critical to that. And i think we disagree with david on the level of certainty that we have around what the fix you see in risks. But that process of driving information so that we can all look at it together is critical. Im just looking on youtube and ms. Rainey is watching on youtube list. Thank you for being part of the show today. If we do so, you engineering, how would we force companies to change the harmful practice . My concern is people will keep doing the same harmful things over and over again. They would, you touch me, she didnt say it is a climate change solution, but it can how comp, companies will keep doing the wrong things unless the governments forced them to stop. So we wont get climate action unless we have Government Action to regulate the use of the atmosphere as a waste time for our carbon. Thats what climate activists including me, have on our entire careers for no question. It wont happen automatically. We need, we need people marching the streets, we need Government Action. Thats whats going to change it. And nothing about solvers, you know, sure. And really changes that much one way or the other solar generational will provide an excuse, a false excuse. That may be used by some people to try and avoid emissions cuts, but its wrong, nothing we know about solar geo ensuring changes the fact that we have to got emissions eventually to net 0 in order to have a stable climate. Im looking at this image here on my laptop, david, will you talk us through it so that everybody can understand what is going on here and what were looking at. Because were still in that phase right now where were looking at theory, but also trying to do some practical research as well. This is part of the practical research david. Yeah, this is an example of a Research Project called the Stratosphere Control Perturbation experiment. Run by my colleague frank, which were the objective is to understand with a stratosphere balloon experiment, how some aerosols and the stratosphere cells, or just really fine particles that are small up. You dont fall very fast, how they interact with each other, how much they stick together, and how particular interaction happens in a plume. And if one was ever going to do this, actually for real from aircraft, with much, much larger quantities of material, you would need to understand the details of an interaction. So its hard to say this isnt a test of whether or not so as you measure works or not, its a incremental step to understand a little bit better. Somebody underlined science, i want to bring in a voice. Its important because i think theres a lot of people not quite understanding what is going on here, but theres still the research that is happening and then worried about the downside, the negative impact. That what might happen if we change how warm or how cool the earth is, have a lift and have a look. Solar engineering ever, technology that is now being doubted as one of the solutions of climate crisis, can have many unintended consequences. First of all, it can alter the need to climate there by effecting not only the country that are using it or deploying it, but also the countries in the neighborhood. Secondly, it pass political congregations because they may divide the world into have they have known that this country that have access to the technology and ones that do not have access to it, especially the developing world totally may have security implications as well. Because this technology can be used for purposes then by creating some sort of insecurity in many regions as a whole list of concerns theyre coming from. The public is that im just rounding angela. You start, can you pick up . Is that a, a problem with the public being on board with the science . This is the sciences ahead of the public angelie. So i think theres definitely a level of suspicion and feel it in the minds of the public because one is that we all acknowledge that they are so decent disc associated with or do engineering. And the fact that, you know, people that communities are, that doesnt take it from these communities that are most by maybe by little bit to the impacts of climate change. Theyre not the only active decision making on where the sorts of going to go get. So, i mean, not being able to voice that open, you know, not being able to understand what is happening in terms of such creates a sense of G O N k. Problematic is that well, we think its a really important problem to address, but it does take sophisticated resources to study these questions. And i think theres a misperception that the research is moving quickly. The total level of research in this area around the world is tiny on there are a handful of researchers and just single digit 1000000. 00 per year all over the world studying. And so we think its actually quite important that we invest resources where they are in the climate models in the observations, in the tiny experiments that will help us understand these things and drive to make that information available and make that participation available to people around the world, so for example, were working with Amazon Web services to put global climate bottles on the cloud that could look at these questions in a way that would allow researchers in the global south on other parts of the world to study them for themselves. So we think the problem is not advancing the science, but the problem is creating the resources in access so that everyone to share in it and then have a voice around the table as, as to what were going to do. We have a very serious safety situation. The current that projections have over 1000000000 people on the planet is placed. And so we think this is a way of exploring options to see if we can do better than that. I agree with everything, kelly just said, i think i want to add one more point, which is its easy to on any topic like this cherry people have opinions in different directions to. He said that we know and a thing, and we dont know very much about what regular people actually think. Theres good evidence from 2 papers that people get more vulnerable climate war climate vulnerable countries are more supportive research on this. So its true both among climate negotiators, depending on where they came from and its true in asian countries. If you compare rich and poor, poor countries are more supportive. And in general, it appears actually maybe a little country to your implication, tell me that it may actually be that regular people are more support of this than experts. I dont think we know that definitely. But he said that we have empirical evidence from surveys. Thats the way it appears all, and its really difficult as kelly was saying that its not like this is a big, huge area of research. Its, it was very, it was very nice and its becoming less nice because the climate time is actually warming up. So people are now thinking, what else, what else can we do here . Im going to show to headlines. David, i apologize now because these headlines must be going to be quite painful for you to look at controversial Tech Flight aimed at calling the planet cancelled. Sweden cancel bill gates, controversial climate Geo Engineering project. Is it that youre involved in . Bill gates has put some investment into it. What happened, david . Why was it can so im sorry, but if you say i got to drive right there, theyll have to not invest. Thats just plain falls. Bill gates was one, invest means a financial investment. Gates was one of a whole range. I think you would find david, i think he was one of the investors here, but its not it. Ok. Yeah. But typically think about to return, which is different from philanthropy, and he had no Control Or Insight into this think its kind of important. Actually people are saying things that are false, sorry to get my back up, but i think truth matters. Absolutely. Well, please continue. The, the, the project that was going to happen in june has been cancelled. It was going to be in swedish lapland, what happened and, and how can we make that connection between what weve been talking about and the cancellation of that practical Research Project. So we were only planning to fly there because theres a limited number of place around the world to do how to transfer a ballooning. And so your Space Corporation turns out to be a wonderful partner for doing ballooning. So we thought that we might fly with them for that reason and some the Sammy Counsellor indigenous organization and some environmental groups produced a very were very negative. I argued that shouldnt happen and to be clear, they actually can see that it has no risk. But that the risk is the idea which i think is a consistent view, and they argue that it shouldnt happen. The swedish government took that seriously and basically told s s c that they shouldnt last. Thats what happened. Thank you for sharing with us that lets say quite disappointing for you and the rest of your team at this point. But i want to bring you to another point. This one comes from catriona mckinnon. Whos thinking about ok, if we get a little bit of along with a science, then what do we need to be thinking about who she is . Need to start a public conversation about solar Radiation Management soon. And that conversation needs to be focused on the date and difficult ethical questions that this new Technology Rate is for us collectively. And in particular, we need to start talking soon about how to govern research into this new technology. In order to mitigate the rest of the technology, learning ahead of governance. And im just wondering, are we there yet . I know you said david, you talking serious about governance 30 years ago . Yeah, i mean, when i 1st became involved in this, i and many other people have argued, the biggest problem is governance. And we need to begin governance discussions are hard. We need to begin the conversations early in order to have any chance and making reasonable decisions when the real decisions come on. The decisions to be clear they shouldnt be made by scientists. They need be made in some organized way that is as legitimate and democratic as possible. But that cannot happen in a 2nd. And, you know, just about the wrap up, the final thoughts that day. So i think ive been boring for people to know that be followed you. Engineering guided keys being dominated by a group of institution that is based in the globe is not so the only a constructive way forward on this is to establish an international governance. Mccann isnt that, is that just sort of luck to international participation . Ok. Thank you. I would also was just right at the end of the show, you pull up a point that needed a new show to interest to talk about that point. But thank you actually for ending on why the debate will continue. Actually kelly david on youtube. Thanks for your comments. Really appreciate you. Ill see you next time pick and choose from the Al Jazeera London Broadcast center to people in thoughtful conversation, the struggles that within the global south have come, not because of our help, but because of the harm of the global north, with no host and no limitation. Thats the story of climate change. Its not that were all in it together. The people who are the most impacted in the 1st impact that are in the global. I last always how it is pub 2, if i ship alba and after raymond, past fashion, should be actually regulated to like bigger at studio be unscripted on Al Jazeera. In covered 19 has compounded the Homelessness Crisis in abandoned impoverished families of force a radical jane decided to say, hey, were going to spend the human rights by claiming property left vacant by the state. The 1st thing i did was my duty is to get my daughter safe. That means breaking the law that im willing to do that for shelter in place l. A spiked for Housing Owner to 0. When both of these accounts 50 percent of that the only challenge in the way that i i ah me. This is Al Jazeera ah hello money inside. This is the new life. Coming up in the next 60 minutes. More israeli strikes on garza and broke it a 5 back into israel as diplomatic efforts run to reach the bias. Rockets are also intercepted on their way into israel from 11 on the target a suburb of high