World. War z. Swedens an orthodox approach to handling the Health Crisis has made headlines throughout the covert 19 pandemic unlike most you members the swedes didnt impose and the Strict Lockdown measures remain business as usual in stockholm and elsewhere even when cases peaked further and opinions became more divided than ever. While the relaxed strategy is expected to ease the impact on the economy sweden has one of europes highest fatality rates and the worst death toll by far in scandinavia. What went wrong and what should have been done differently some of the questions we put to one of the leaders in the battle against covert 19 swedens minister for health and social affairs lena having grown talks to al jazeera. Swedens minister for health and social affairs Alina Helling dan thanks for joining us and for talking to aljazeera can i just begin with the government motto during the covert 19 pandemic which was physical distancing not social distancing was that the best policy considering the latest figures from sweden suggests that youve had nearly 6000 deaths and nearly 80000 infections but let me say that we have had a situation in sweden which has the best problem at the as many other countries i mean this is a Global Pandemic virus we knew very little about from the beginning now you know a lot more so where or so as in time all during those its 6 months since we have urged. Its case in sweden we have been working very hard and i just want to take every day i can say that in sweden we didnt have business as usual in any way we had physical distance. We had so many changes so if you will visit sweden and talk to people in suite and they will say that so many things test different change and they still are that doesnt mean there was such sadness that we can but that we know that more than 5000 people have have deceased in sweden during this time. So the covert 19 virus was. Dent if i didnt december in china the w. H. O. Declared it an outbreak of International Concern on the 30th of january and then they called it a pandemic on the 11th of march just take us back to the swedish government now realizing that this virus could be on its way what sort of conversations are you having with the Prime Minister and with other Senior Health officials well of course this has been there an ongoing discussion dialogue very serious talks of course within the government but with Prime Minister but also with our national aids. Public Health Agency. Expert when it comes to. Prevent disease there from the 1st of february it was classified as we know they used to cite so since then we have actively and make it possible for for everyone there working with to seize control nationally and we have to take all the measures they need to make sure that they can protect. The society and boobs it seems that the Prime Minister himself decided to hand over the responsibility as you say to the scientist of the department of Public Health and and us take no the state epidemiologist with again the phrase of law gone pardon my swedish the the light touch george just enough again is was it was it the right thing to do to allow the scientists to have full control or did the Prime Minister did you as minister for Public Health have also some responsibility in keeping the reins very tight on the way the government were going to control the public at large i dont think thats a right description really because. We have a natural agency called the Public Health agency its sweden and all that time only 365. 00 days a year they are responsible for deceased prevention and control and i think it will be very strange if they are responsible all the time but not but we have a pandemic with a new virus which has been applied for all caps but of course legal responsibility to them they are the experts and of course they are very important advice they also the one having all the contacts with that w. H. O. With other countries with their National Health agencies in the nordic countries not least but also not countries in the European Union so we have had lots of dialogue very close dialogue with the agency and of course the government making decisions on their changing law or having recommendations. We will come to them i guess in the interview but we have had lots are not only recommendations guidelines and information to make sure that people change their behavior we are living their everyday life and that is being responsible. For the government for the Prime Minister for me but also the 10000000 swedes some people in the International Community do find it odd that sweden being such a well organized for fall country that leads from the front when you think of sweden you think of accuracy that you or the government the Public Health department decided that the slight touch the herd immunity or this herd mentality was the way forward can you sort of elaborate on why you thought the light touch was the way forward other countries were locking down very quickly i think thats a. Or to describe it that way and i would probably say that many times i think it is because sweden didnt have some kind of goal to have heard immunity and we are trying to say that for so many times so i try to repeat it that is not the specs of the strategy has been to make sure that we can prevent the virus from being spread in society to protect monocle groups but also to make sure that our society is functioning because all the time we need people to work in the hospitals we need people to work in the Nursing Homes we need people to work in the pharmacies in their Police Officer is in the ambulance but also in the shops that you can make everything in the working in in their community trains buses i mean we dont find it in the swedish perspective possible that everyone is staying home for months not going outside and not having fresh air and not having any whole. Civet is so for us it has been very important to change peoples everyday life to take all the measures we need to make sure that they dont travel around that everyone who has a possibility to work from home they have done. All the students in the secondary schools the number of cities and the high schools they have been studying online all the people working in in the cultural sector or in their in their if your sports they have been working. Or actually they have not been working because we havent had those kind of gatherings so i really protest the say that it has to be on its such a slight way i think that thats ok for other countries to steps we dont but if you let us describe our strategy that is not wait misquote but it has been a very delicate balance to allow sort of social movement alongside protecting the economy and in protecting the economy you know were looking at of 80000 nearly 80000 infections in a population of what 10300000 so thats a pickup to its quite large and therefore quite worrying that that policy was used do you regret not tightening things up a little bit more you can give me any more example if you want to but i think that is that is not really the right way to describe it because were testing as much as we can to make sure that really know how many people are in it how can we make sure that they are out isolated that they stay home i dont know all the figures from other countries but mean protecting a country from a virus of course we have doing we have done whatever we found worst possible or necessary but i think the thing which has been maybe a difference or maybe the most important difference from other countries but the fact that we didnt close the Primary School or at the preschool level and the private care i would say that has the biggest difference as well as the fact that people were not forbidden to go outside but if they were outside they were supposed to have a distance and i can just assure you that if you were a sweden in march april. Maybe you have not many people to talk to you have closed shops restaurants because no one went there so we had the balls we wanted to make sure that you make people have socialists those welcome home studies from home not me in any big gatherings that has been the most important thing that doesnt mean that we havent made a lot of changes in this way to society i think is a misunderstanding ok well 11 of the issues certainly when we talk about the death rate says that a large proportion of the death rate is old age people maybe many of them in care or living by themselves at home lets just talk about those that ring care whats been the main problem its estimated certainly by the Swedish Press as many as 2 and a half 1000 may have died in care homes where do you think the problem lies there and what loopholes need to be closed because its a very large number im not sure about the viewers of this program if they are aware of what a nursing home sweden is so let me explain that that is a place for the oldest one the most. Often people with dementia in general people live in in those Nursing Homes for 12 or maybe 3 years so of course you have the people when they get the virus they are the most. The most vulnerable what but as far as i know globally the elderly part of the population is the one suffering hardest and in sweden we have a situation where the oldest population they dont live at home they live at home so i mean that is of course something which i i think its as i said before its extremely sad but i dont think its that unique as mike is crowd but we have no gas station in sweden where those Nursing Homes theyre not just. You know retired people what were they given to whether Nursing Homes given guidance as to how to protect themselves from coronavirus where the Nursing Homes given personal protective equipment. How was the virus entering Nursing Homes was it from how was it in terms of staff or suppliers to the nursing home because those are the loopholes that need to be to be tightened up surely yes they they had access to p. P. If you were working in the in the nursing home care sector but it was a fact in the beginning of this and. It was extremely difficult to really know who was in it how to protect. The l. One when we had spread of the virus in the society and i just want to have maybe a comparison with the countries saying they have locked down because even if we were locked down it would be. Not possible for the people working in the empty care sector to stay home because they have to go to their jobs so thats why we have been working with. Big forbidden by law to visit every of the of the chair or Nursing Homes they have the people either have special education about how you have the best possible hygiene rules how do you how do you isolate the effect of. The persons from the other ones. How do you make sure that the people working in the nursing home dont go between infected and not infected person but that was the most difficult thing to really manage in the beginning of this and that means that is not the situation right now but that was very difficult and we havent found any groups saying that they had locked down we will prevent that from happen but of course we are trying to to evaluate every step we have taken over the tape so we have to make inquiry pointed by the governments looking into the whole situation and the whole thing all the pandemic in sweden its not over yet but so far and starts with the elderly if you do have the conversations about care homes the Retail Sector opening or closing schools whos who was in the conversation at cabinet level. We have 1700. 00 Nursing Homes all over the country and every one is run by the municipality or maybe from a private ok so all of them are responsible for the air for the nursing home they have the advice by the national Health Agency by the agency for health and social affairs and of course in the government we are very eager to make sure that they have the resources they need we help them to buy the p. P. Even bus was very difficult for all the countries when they needed the same p. P. Yet the same time and you know just what clothes people are sorry for people but what Countries Companies they were holding p. P. Within their countries to make sure that they have what they need so we had a lack of people and that was something we tried to help the minister with. At the same time as they were working on the ground so municipalities private owners are responsible with all the possible help financially with people with education and knowledge from that you know that ok lets move on to cause to search come to the school that is the same thing you could close a school at the local level if you find that. Necessary but we have the natural level of the Public Health they just see advice in the government the government has decided not to close the preschool or the. Public school up to 2 great 9 to make sure that they are open because we couldnt see that that will drive the inspection on the contrary if we need the Primary School. Preschool to make sure that parents can go to work so that people can work in the health care of the elderly parents and all the other extremely important. Service to this company ok mr lets just bring in schools then because both the Public Health agency of sweden and the Finnish Institute for health and welfare did a recent study over the school should open and close those you said youve tried to reopen finland actually closed down i mean what were the findings whats that what what were the findings of that report in terms of whether it is a good idea to open or close schools during this pandemic because it is a hot topic not just in europe but in north america at the moment and in many parts of asia as we get towards september when the new school term in University Terms open and start made i think every country has to speak for their own decisions being made or not made but in sweden we didnt find that necessary to close down the preschool and the Primary School because we needed to have an open and we turn and find it in the science so and the knowledge about the virus that the children and the very Young Persons will drive the infection. But we close down or we said that there yep a secondary school and the universities and the other learning schools and they were going online with distance courses because otherwise they will travel around so much in the in the commuter traffic so thats why we told them we decided they should be our line but for the younger children that was not necessary and we were quite convinced that. Its very negative for the small children to stay at home inside with parents just working from home not meeting their friends not in this kind of stimulation but i will also say that you have not. So show him tragic situations with abuse and with Domestic Violence those come situation which we have to also take in account Public Health you know broader perspective but only at the current price so you have to make sure that you have a Decision Making and having that in mind ok well with with so many infections with the death rate as it is there is an official inquiry due at the end of the year if the inquiry which is an independent one blames the government in some shape or form for not doing the right thing or for being partly to blame for the deaths or the infections would you resign would you fall on your sword or would the Prime Minister resign let me start by saying that if you have the opinion that sweden has so many in fact i would say that we have a situation very well able to compare with many other issues in your union in that in there both. Depreciate im sorry minister as you know i do appreciate that there are many countries that have many infections but there is a great deal of many questions that the public are asking as to whether their respective lawmakers have made the right decisions and. Many are being critical of their politicians not just in sweden but across the world so if theres a general question if if you felt that any report came out that said the politicians were to blame you were to blame or the Prime Minister was to blame which you resign. I know you want yes or no but let me say that it is a situation where the pandemic is not 0 but i think its i think its dangerous if we are acting as a political Decision Makers as. Agencies or as population as a kind and it is ok and we just trying to find out whose fault is the fact that we have a situation in our country of course we will look into what was the result is from this inquiry but i think its so to say the started a few weeks ago they have a job to do and they are having a job which is saying that they should they should follow up and they should evaluate they should follow this should make is both the government. Also from the regional and the local part because this we dont we have a place where 290 minutes at this and 21 they are responsible for the health care for the elder care for the schools we dont have a situation where the government is responsible for everything but of course i mean what is the results and who is going to be responsible in the in someones opinion that desolate question or so welcoming very close to the end of the program but i just want to smudge that margaret her if shes the spokesperson for the