Is democracy dead in hong kong a month off to china imposes new security law activists arrested protest slogans banned and opposition leaders disqualified from the suddenly perspire in the palm entry election so whats the future of the Global Financial hub this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program on imran khan its been a vent full month since chinas government imposed a National Security law on Hong Kong Chinese leaders say the legislation is essential to months of disruptive protests critics say its the death knell of democracy and one of the most vibrant cities in the world is whats happened since july the 1st the 23rd anniversary of the handover of British Colonial rule Police Detained student democracy activists some such as night and law fled into exile in fear of persecution Public Libraries removed books written by prodemocracy leader has 12 Democratic Candidates were disqualified from the Legislative Council election which was suddenly perspiring for 12 months countries such as britain and australia suspended extradition agreements i dont friday Police Issued notices for 6 activists living overseas david paul and has more. Beijing has consistently said that foreign interference is to blame for dissent in hong kong and the protests of last year so which is why collusion with Foreign Forces is seen as violating the National Security law so seeking the arrests of those 6 dissidents or activists overseas just underlines this point now one of the main tenets of that National Security law is that it has no boundaries anyone whether youre hong kong resident or not and wherever you are can be seen as violating that law and beijing wants to drive that point home but analysts say beijing is also trying to achieve some other goals for one thing its trying to stir up nationalistic sentiments at a time when the country is recovering from the coronavirus pandemic and one of the ways of doing this is to tighten its grip and control of hong kong and hong kongs people beijing also wants to send out a message to the International Community many of which have condemned and criticized the implementation of that National Security law in fact a countries like the u. S. And the u. K. Have even threatened sanctions on china for the implementation of that law and china is saying that it will not be dissuaded by this and that its jurisdiction reaches far beyond chinese soil countries like the u. S. And the u. K. And. And canada have even suspended their extradition treaties with Hong Kong Hong kong has separate treaties from the rest of Mainland China and in the late as germany has suspended its extradition treaty with hong kong incidentally one of those dissidents are activist wanted by hong kongs National SecurityPolice Forces a Pro Independence activist and a protester currently seeking asylum in germany vivi gopalan for inside story u. S. Citizen samuel choose one of the activists wanted by Hong Kong Police he told i was there the Chinese Government is determined to stamp out all of position even abroad. I think that i was outrage and really not surprised but this is such an outlandish claim that somehow they have jurisdiction an american citizen lobbying an American Government is just completely out of line up spoken to a number of congressional offices and i as i said from the very beginning when the law was do if theyre going to come after me they must love marched down to capitol hill and arrest Speaker Pelosi and senator rubios and everybody in the white house because they too have been undercut that mission this law and articles you know that it is using to charge people like me secession and colluding with foreign powers and that i think is what theyre both not understanding is that theyre creating really a perception of how desperate and how scared they are Global International influence and pressure. I. Lets introduce our panel all in Hong Kong Isaac chang a prodemocracy campaigner and spokesman of the hong kong secondary students action platform and drooling and independent china strategist and stephen vines a china analyst and author of the new book define the Dragon Hong Kong and the Worlds Largest dictatorship welcome to you all id like to begin with eyes again. China has been very clear everybody who is causing trouble within hong kong is foreign therefore an activist their foreign hands their foreign spies and china has made it clear that this will not be tolerated as a chain are you a foreign agent. Im definitely a law a foreign agents and a lot of people are only the Freedom Fighters for the hong kong democracy actions and the move and. Kiss they have to put up a label for us as a foreign agents in order to protest in order to prosecute and also process and also the rest so they must put up with some labels like that but actually all fiercely a lot of people its because of the fair use off the mark are saying coming out for not for example monies or for service things etc but isaac are you surprised that the National Security law it only took a month for it to become quite a big deal within hong kong itself and its been used not only against student activists but prodemocracy activists even books have been banned are you surprised that china has cracked down so much so quickly. Definitely not surprised after the publication of the National Security law when de de house of National Security law had been seen by the publics there is a real already realize that the law is or is really a hash to the hong kong people and definitely frett and every kind of freedom weve called. Including the freedom of speech and freedom of expression and things etc so this is not surprising for us but actually they would be more to come in the future 100 its a little bit disingenuous for the chinese to say this is all the foreign hand this is you know foreign activists being involved in in china just taking a look at the people the youve arrested that china has arrested rather looking at the crackdown thats happened this is all Hong Kong Based people this is all people from hong kong it doesnt seem to be very many people from abroad youre arresting chinas arresting. Well i think that youve got to understand why theres National Security role is imposed on was all of the something. I mean that the context is that the whole cause one country 2 systems in holes constitution there is a safeguard for National Security which is article 2 of the street now that has remained and then acted because huge opposition or partial history i dont know how cuomo has been enjoying extremely high degree of autonomy all this year suffice it for the facet to. Receive very high ranking in the International Freedom index even many ranks above the United States now that this all these freedoms in recent years appear to be hijacked in the eyes of beijing so that. The hong kong people especially the younger. Have lost the company sense of nationhood they dont we got themselves as chinese anymore but more what is all the socalled. Movement social movement you know has mall into extreme violence you know petra born so strong. And then of course facts openly advocating separatism or independence in this play and then the emblems of agents softened he has been trashed. And i think that thats really heating up with least feels that its now pushed into a corner hence enactment of this lord out as for foreign influence there is no direct evidence that the whole thing has been caused by foreign powers to step in it not because there d is a lot of dissatisfaction of woodhull things ago it was saying in zones overall at a perception that the whole d. Because identity is being eroded. By the influx of our time is serious in france or chinas capital but this is unavoidable you know of those 23 years i remember when 1st polka we voted to. The big change. In the whole economy this ration you know most of the time its all hand over and also off the. If ali handle the beijing really bent backwards to ensure that there is absolutely no perception of interference even a Football Game between the. Other or at a time theyre all home police force the police force and then those in beijing. Refer back to jane for approval and lets let you know theres a longer theres a number of allegations that andrew which id like i can see actually answer. One country 2 systems the Democracy Movement is trying to destroy the actually all uncle china is doing is trying to offer you a Better Future whats your response. For a lot of hong kong people who destroy the one country 2 systems is obviously the chinese craft and when they publish the National Security law when they publish a lot off different kinds of policies i hong kong including 2 twisty Education Systems or even to ask the air sea for surf and to take oath to state their mind clearly points to the Chinese Government this kind of things its a direct hits of the affecting the hong kongs fragile us which means the moccasin and the credence and those failures have been destroyed by the Chinese Government and this is a really obvious things for example previously a lot of hong kong people feel safe inside of hong kong but afterwards now every hong kong people have been afraid that they would be prosecuted under this National Security law and already all for for nearly 10 thousands of people have been arrested in the past year and the government didnt listen to any kind of pinon state comes from the Civil Society so i think this is the strongest proof to the people is that actually the Chinese Government. Who are destroying the one country 2 systems but not the hong kong people and the protests lets bring in stephen vines has stephen youve written a book called defying the Dragon Hong Kong in the Worlds Largest dictatorship but there doesnt seem to be much defying anymore it seems to me that hong kongs actually fighting for his political life oh i think thats true i mean were talking in the week in which the government has spoken the elections for the letters of Council Korea in the week in which the minister for security in an interview with the communist run news papers said they were going to be taking more proactive action to root out dissidents and schools more carefully look at educational materials and he said very honestly that they would be paying more attention to the media this is all in one week were talking about a week in which arrests have been made with in hong kong and the new law has been used in a extraterritorial way to try and arrest overseas distance i mean this is a terrifying onslaught of attacks on the freedoms that people in whole coat got used to just say to mr and just him says you know he always turn people on on his side of the fence always talk about violence the demonstrations you must remember that in june when these protests began there were demonstrations initially about 1000000 people that 2000000 people thats a quarter of tolkiens population which were entirely peaceful and the government responded to that by saying we will not be intimidated by all these people coming out into the streets so i certainly dont think that the outbreak of violence is a good idea but you can well understand why people said well if peaceful demonstration doesnt work maybe some of us will try Something Else and thats what happens. Underlying your reaction please well i think that definitely in the beginning some of the protests were peaceful but then afterwards it really erupted into extreme wonders ransacking the Hong Kong Legislature i mean this would not be tolerated in any country and even not only breaking the lessers the detainees but hosting colonial facts and just imagining that some someone broke into the American Congress and horse that you know some form facts that you know you can understand whats happening or extraterritorial jurisdiction i mean thats in the security laws are very important laws in any country i mean even in the United States i mean there are foods of. For example Edward Snowden is wanted and of course if he dares step outside in any country he would have been arrested so i think that National Security is as important issue for any country but i think people to what i said in the beginning there beijing after all his years as bill allowing hong kong to enjoy an extremely high level of autonomy suffices for it good for it to be ranked very highly international of it i mean that and even in recent weeks i mean. A lot of people can can can just you know protest. Peacefully and i think. I can understand that this kind of thing i can understand that this kind of worry because look at it for the headlines. A lot of people worry what would happen when hong kong we were back to beijing so there was a lot of people apply foreign passports and im sure that with this new role which is unpleasant it is they get worry but i think that look at the people of what canadian passports 300000 of them. What d kelly didnt post was that since they dont go home because of the wall of the earth that a couple of years if you the whole is no dearest bank it will interest less than 3 andrew though you know respect you talk about and i had snowden and you say that there is a National Security law every country has one that would snowden isnt running for election what youve done is youve china has actually banned people opposition people would legitimate cause for money in the parliamentary elections isaac chang here has just complained very bitterly that actually china has cracked down on peaceful protests and thats whats turned those protests violent this isnt just a National Security law this is a law that is designed to oppress hong kong and to bring it in and chinese rule completely is not. A so this is a complete misreading and also a. Misrepresentation of what was happening. For the pastoralists 3 years hong kong as well a position parties that dont exactly those oil but that the law d wasnt introduced until you know. As far as the. Protests are concerned i dont think that it would be genuinely good it doesnt make sense for a change in hong kong into another d showing but i think that beijing feels very very strongly that this red lines of our National Security is is is this great unequals and advocating independence opening. Aid and it by foreign host d of foreign powers that really cost as they do this where like i was itching you shaking your head there furiously whats your reaction for me im not a poll i am not supporting the hong kong democracy independent. I i im not a people who are supporting holland dependence but a lot of hong kong people are eating same as the s. We are not supporting on the independence but can be under the frets of the National Security law and under the National Security law in the previous day there is already 12 of the candidates come from the democratic chems have been disqualified in the elections which means that most likely every democratic cambs candidates cannot run the elections so only to pull beijing can elect so this is no longer a Fair Election systems to allowed any kind of all kenyans get inside the parliament so i cannot understand why. Mr learned can say that this is a a fair and also a democratic systems that under this National Security law and i have to state it clearly that when they the law is have i have been publicly saying that he is not supporting hong kong independence but he is still under the fret of the National Security law and you say that the Chinese Government didnt want to destroy hong kong but the kiss hong kong to mock recy can brought to a this. Step of tea for the Chinese Government rulings so they have to take these kind off destroy to the hong kong in order to remain this deputies of the Chinese Government through its stephen vines there is a bigger issue here isnt there church china and the west hong kong is actually in effect ground 0 between the cold war effectively a cold war between china and the west has the west let down