Globalization put to the test as the corona virus spreads many argue there is an absence of Global Leadership in the fight against the pandemic so is that justified and can countries deal with the threats of corona alone this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program now its being called a war against an invisible enemy and its now being fought on a global scale the world is in a race to stem the increasing number of coronavirus cases as many as 60000 new infections are being reported every day and governments and Health Care Systems are struggling to keep up even among the richest nations the spread is spiraling out of control restrictions on peoples movements and mandatory quarantines are in place across much of the world measures that many experts say have come too late as the number of sick and dying rises governments astronomer willing to get the resources required for the fight and to rescue free forming economies but World Leaders are being accused of putting their own countrys interests and their own political survival ahead of the global good leaders of the 20 biggest economies held a Virtual Conference pledging 5 trillion dollars but that exposed some differences the u. S. Has taken a leading role in past pandemics such as a bowler but was slow to even acknowledge this crisis President Donald Trump purse rip. They refer to it as the china virus a term seen by many as casual racism thats further strained relations with beijing china says the virus has passed its peak and is sending Health Workers and aids to affected countries but its been criticized over reports officials covered up the initial outbreak the e. U. Has failed to form a united response in an Online Meeting the leaders of the 2 worst affected countries italy and spain argued with other members and border disagreements have been criticized by the president of the European Commission when your of really needed to be there for each other to have many initially looked out for themselves when europe really needed an all for one spirit too many initially gave and only from me response and when europe really needed to prove that this is not only a sheer whether union too many initially refused to share their umbrella but it was not long before some felt the consequences of their own uncoordinated action. There we are here we go lets bring in our guests today joining us from stockholm on skype we have coal built a former Prime Minister of sweden and the cochair of the European Council on Foreign Relations in seattle we have sarah on towie shes an incoming professor of modern islam the Fordham University and in washington we have melinda liu shes the beijing bureau chief at Newsweek Magazine welcome to you all call bill can i come to you 1st which president or Prime Minister got it wrong and which president or Prime Minister has got it right. I have a good story and we have to debate that it is fairly obvious that a number of the chinese avoided it it reacted to late to even try to suppress the information or whats going on and that have to trim it to the effect i think is fairly obvious. Present tramples fairly late to put it right that diplomatically recognizing what was happening and as you indicated earlier in in europe i think there was an understanding of things were happening i married into it but there was an initial attempt to see go in Actual Solutions to the detriment of the supermarket that youve been using. So theres a lot of that and then i. Call it notion as being the exceedingly we saw records. In seattle can you name as a leader who changed tack who changed direction quite dramatically because they started listening to the scientists instead of listening to their political advisors. I cant exactly name a leader who has done that i think what president chunk is doing is modulating his message based on the fact that he is realizing that the American Public is listening to the scientists laura less and not as interested in the usual political back and forth so ironically from a political point of view he is modulating somewhat based on the scientists there was just a report that came out that ranks the top 2 most trusted politicians in the United States right now on this issue are. An answer cuomo and the bottom 2 are President Trump and treasury secretary Stephen Nugent so that is the kind of data that really motivates the president to step back to the degree that he is able to do so and give the scientists morally waves and probably otherwise would be inclined to do an interview in washington when you were looking in on what was happening in europe who was your reaction to that because for example if we deal with say specifically spain spain clearly saw what happened in china what had happened in iran and yet on the 9th of february the Spanish Government said oh its ok itll be a handful of cases fast forward by 6 weeks the same government spokesman is talking about hundreds of deaths. Absolutely i feel like i feel like im in trapped in a recurring nightmare because actually im a beijing based correspondent i live and work in beijing i have been in beijing in february and undergoing koren ting there but then i had to come to the states for every and important events that i was supposed to take part in so i thought oh obvious maher and come early so i came to washington d. C. And underwent a not a 2nd part of gene in disease self administered only to emerge into a world where everyone was going to quarantine and so it just so happened that my own cycle its been like contagion meets groundhog day if you want to use a cinematic analogy its its remarkable how the world the individual countries have watched other countries go through this and theyre having a sort of a state of denial and saying oh look at how tragic that is and not taking on that but happened there so now im in washington d. C. And im seeing some of the exact same reactions indeed some of the exact same next steps happening here that i have seen happening in beijing 6 weeks ago does that mean melinda when you were in beijing 6 weeks ago was was it about was it about saving lives or was it about social stability was that a representation of primacy of primacy for xi jinping. When i was in beijing under quarantine it was a it was that the government was trying to do true things at once. And they were mutually exclusive things one was stop the virus. Very draconian containment strategy mitigation the 2nd one is lets get the economy going again because. Young people have jobs they need to eat now today this exhibit this is the exact same challenge confronting us President Donald Trump and dumb and in in his case hes trying to do all of them one day hell come up and say this is nothing will be over with or very quickly it doesnt show that many people its just like the flu oh people die in traffic accidents all days so all we know were not the band of people who are making cars or driving on the on street so just stick with us were doing a great job and well get over it a couple of days then he was much more somber and then maybe the next day he would flip flop back again ive rarely seen. Such high level policy flip flopping taking place on live t. V. In my journalistic career its its yes rather riveting but also terrifying carl bildt in stockholm if we look again at the the european aspect of this and we kind of drill down into that flip flopping or delivering a policy i mean spain was you know at the leading edge of. Not doing it wrongly but not doing it as well as it possibly could do i mean most essential as the Prime Minister started talking about bringing in some Emergency Powers but he said ok you got 24 hours before it happened so people dispersed they took the infection to other places because they had 24 hours to get to where they wanted to get to. These you know things have been in in there in italy which was has been by far the worst in europe so far when they very early when for that has to be set theyve been very early to predict or to 50 its a big step right so. But part of the information of what they were planning to do theyre often leaked out talk when it was closing on milan that leaked out some hours before and quite a number of people left me on a whim to southern italy that being said that it is primarily north of the city its happening everywhere and historically with no one has been particular part of the their earning on your mind to speak. But i think at least in European Countries that recognition and use something serious theres not been dont by any serious politician who say that this is nothing we invented by political opponents or blaming others for it as weve seen for example. Elements of the in invasive United States but then youre. In the you. Its the only berth in the sense that the responsibility for National Health issues is not an easy responsibility thats thats a National Responsibility that the u. S. Is possibility of losing the market even the borders open with the fruits medicines and equipment that the and thats been struggling somewhat the read there were a certain element of gross you not only for medical equipment that has now been lifted but is there one i eat understands that no one can do it alone no one is or only. We need to do this together ok very very briefly the cardinal because i do want to move on to the u. S. And also other big issues post breaks it for Boris Johnson whos now just in the past couple of hours being confirmed as having it although hes got it in a mild way post brix it the 1st move away from regulator read divergence has been a complete failure for 10 downing street well its been rather strange because i mean from from the e. U. Point of view were still in the sort of interest issue yet some of the e. U. Treats great big no United Kingdom is at the for the mash but then the u. K. It settles evidently missed some deadline to report to be part of the your comment at equipment which was regrettable but im from the process point of view if the u. K. Still treated as part of the Single Market for job. That has not been fully recognized in london that ok sarah in seattle lets talk more about donald trump january 22nd thats his 1st recorded comment on the coronavirus he says quote we have it under control it had already spread to 4 other countries by that point and all the planes were still flying all the cruise ships were still cruising. I think what were seeing now theres a lot of focus of course on President Trump really going to grapple with how serious of a situation this is i think on if we can step back what were really seeing now is really the conversation between 2 factions that really see the role of the state in fundamentally different ways President Trump seems to be representing a faction that really sees the state as an organizing body for the economy and for business and. At best that camp would think that if conditions are right and sort of as healthy as possible for business and the economy then this will filter down and help the citizens theres another faction that actually understands the state in a deeper and broader way as an organizing body that ministers care and relief to citizens and that understands us as a community that wants to help each other engage in some form of mutual care no matter what the cost and so i think that that is the deeper kind of fault line thats being exposed to right now and President Trump he still refuses to enact the production act that you know he has the power to enact which would order businesses to produce protective equipment and ventilators and other critical medical supplies we have 3 governors who are now begging President Trump to invoke this the governor of new york andrew cuomo Jennifer Granholm of michigan and jay ensley here in Washington State at this point president absolutely refuses to do this and in fact just yesterday went on television and really insult. Those 3 democratic governors sol unfortunately the situation at the federal level is not if rooting. If youll believe the governors when they tell of the most hard hit states in the country when they talk president talk what they need melinda in washington has the time know come when we need to hear more from the scientists and the specialists and the doctors and the less from the president in the Prime Ministers. Absolutely i i find it astounding that in the United States theres theres a big debate between politicians and Business People versus scientists i mean this is a pandemic this this is a war but its a war thats being waged in the medicine and Science Field you need experts in medicine and science in order to help shape the strategy. Having said that its very easy to criticize things that have happened up to now everywhere in every country i cant honestly think of any single entity thats handled this really really well that has no reason to have any regrets except possibly some very smart and titties and lets face it scale matters in this case thats why some of the bigger countries are having even and even some developed countries are having problems singapore has has come in 4 or praise in the way that it had handle it but thats thats a size of a medium sized city in china so if you know its hard to compare apples and oranges in terms of this is an unpredictable. Terrifying y. O. Roller coaster ride where we havent reached the end yet so we dont we cant say that its done it well it was done and not well those who you know whos moved. Perfectly and who hasnt however what one thing we can say one thing is very very clear the way we saw china operate and the way we see some western countries operate there are there there is a a fundamental difference in the the perceptions and the expectations in the case of china it was how much can individuals sacrifice for the greater good of the community the Larger Society and the nation and theyve had some very draconian measures some of which probably could not be implemented in the west in the west its the flip side the question is how much where all individual freedoms livelihoods meaning individual citizens jobs and businesses how much will that prevail at the same time creating great risks for the Greater Community the Greater Society the nation as a whole. I just want to move on melinda back to call built in stockholm call are we saying here that whether its washington donald trump london Boris Johnson mr sanchez in spain or xi jinping in beijing there is a natural political kneejerk instinct to either exit or counsellor or at least manage what the science and the Scientists Say but the consequences of that could be appalling for the rest of us. That horse is going to do what we know no actually only in that case china. We know the story is not the. Great doctors who are who tried to start and are reported to the police. Most of us and one of them even sacrifice his own life in their particular struggle i mean its fairly obvious that 9 is societies they view that china close dark maybe or close are 200. 3 weeks earlier though. We might not be in your situation where we are so there has to be really good at them and thats more difficult to do we know in their society you cant learn to start. Most speech where you cant really dont doctor to go to the media and so it so here clearly there is a difference and then sometimes political leaders are sometimes somewhat reluctant to face the Group Reality it just goes away. Transgression ok sarah in seattle seriously why doesnt the trumpet ministration just give the whole thing to Anthony Fauji youve got a man whos done the same job since 1968 hes advised 6 president s on hiv slash aids slash Infectious Diseases and hes written the 7 definitive books on Infectious Diseases the guy knows what hes doing and apparently hes being managed by somebody someplace in washington to keep his message slightly off the radar. Yes hes remarkable and of course that would be the right thing to do i will say that politics are in a stable as we all know and one thing that does need to happen i would love for Anthony Fauci to be in charge of the entire operation we see with politicians who are so skilled he has very very nuanced political instincts as does andrew cuomo and we see how those 2 in particular have to kind of massage and finesse essentially President Trumps ego to even remain on the stage i mean people are terrified here that at some point anthony will be fired or removed altogether so we want to avoid that scenario i will say that there is a place for politics in the sense that as a fellow academic i greatly respect anthony these scientists on the willingness to say anything definitive about medicines cures how long this is going to take i understand that they are data driven theyre careful and they dont want to make those types of statements at the same time you