Iran out stats what angry iraqi protestors were shouting as they set fire to the iranian consulate in the city of najaf a significant anti test run escalation but how much influence does iran wield in iraq is it a force for good or is it holding back the country and its people this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im Adrian Finnegan after months of violent antigovernment protests in iraq anger has turned towards neighboring iran demonstrators stormed the iranian consulate in the holy city of knowledge of the for setting fire to it on wednesday a number of people were killed in the crackdown which followed adding to the hundreds who died in the last 2 months of protests its the strongest expression of anti iranian sentiment in recent months with demonstrators accusing to iran of supporting the government that theyre trying to fight it comes off to similar attacks on iranian properties in karbala earlier this month and in bastra last year well baghdad has condemned the attack sending Army Reinforcements to try to suppress the violence a curfew has been put in place and socalled crisis cells have been set up meanwhile irans foreign minister says that iraq has a responsibility to protect the consulate and must send a responsible strong at effective response. Well get to our guests for our discussion in just a moment but 1st lets look at why protesters accuse iran of meddling in the countrys affairs like many iraqi politicians Prime Minister other abou marty has long running ties with iran having worked with its leadership before the fall of Saddam Hussein others include former Prime MinisterNouri Al Maliki at every amount of fiery and former Islamic Supreme Council leader Amar Al Hakim and his late father is al hakim both political and military leaders said to maintain a quote special relationship with tap round which was detailed in a series of intelligence reports leaked to u. S. Media earlier this month irans also allied with the armed group the Popular Mobilisation forces the group is sanctioned by baghdad but some say the group represents an Iranian Military presence in the country. So lets bring in our guests for todays discussion from london were joined by joe what a member of the Research Committee of the middle east center at the London School of economics via skype from hartford ship me the Legal Advisor to the National Council for iraqi opposition and a cd a solicitor from turkey iran for what is already a professor at the university of tehran in the faculty of world studies a warm welcome to you all gentlemen lets start with you its clear that protesters are angry about what they see as iranian influence in iraq but are they right is iran im ally an actor influencing or meddling in iraq ie politics religion and economic affairs. They are not only a right but that are very much example. Very much. Too much examples about this. As the iranian have the last one was then when this is the most racist the illustrations started and they were asking for the Prime Minister to resign and the e. U. Was ready to resign by the way then the iranian stepped in and influenced him to remain in power defying all the protests of the people the 2nd example is that says 2003 the iranian have been supporting corrupt sectarian affective failing politicians to rule iraq and they kept all recycling them through these 17 years and they have protests even supported them to the to the and even to the fact that they kept them in power for all these 17 years then they have created this or they have. Mobilized or i should say. Taken advantage of the creation of the Popular Mobilization forces and they have taken control of of 60 or 70 percent of this forces by them by by their political by by by their lay their. Cost and survey monies controlling them and they declare in public that they follow orders from iran and not from the Iraqi Government although the Prime Minister was supposed to be their commander in chief so all these things have instigated the iraqis the iraqis and they feel that the other iranians are really happy with such a gut corrupt failing and an effort of government sectarian government and they would like to keep it like this because they could control the country through these through these people so hashmi najaf is the seat of the Shia Religious Authority in iraq what are your thoughts on the attack on the consulate and its significance or the demonstrations concerns legitimate. First of all thank you very much for having me and i would like to offer my sincere condolences to the church of the terms who have. The money to buy the pricing and to their families now in terms of the significance the significance and the high seas because the jobs are really known to your heroes is the holiest shrine in share islam and therefore the time on it signifies time to i think the message from somebody you may then. Be on within the demonstrators might have been sent to the iranians that youre on hold the welcome because also programs come to the city in order to socalled home religious duties now. I think we need to be very very careful in our life situation i dont think its a full on conclusion that the demonstrators all the ones who attacked the embassy or consulate sorry because 1st of all there are always a few bad apples within a huge group of people like the demonstrators they may be some number 2 we have also the possibility of a selfinflicted wound on the whole flag attack. Nearing its all looking in to see it in iraq this time of openly and the open force this could provide them with a pretext although i see you tell me i think for you by the way the irony of this was when it was attacked and the Iraqi Security forces would have informed the u. A. E. And to evacuate the embassy they also strive yes now that is the case i think iraq is security is almost all that capable of defending this also that against demonstrators who are largely on all the exception to a lot now this raises a number questions if that is the case law orchestrates im not know if i have the answers because the attack is being very recent and i dont have much information about it just getting back to the ones that made. Us and mother. I think the roots of your reading of homer those are very early on since the invasion of iraq has been 3 when the better forces who are openly funk who were in the front it aligned and trained by the iranians and to iraq and impose themselves on the Security Forces went in to me and they detain all of those Security Forces they are excused all human rights breaches since early from the invasion so i dont think its and then there are also the most recent revelations by intercept to the New York Times the papers that were revealed documenting. That almost the individuals with whom the iranians have had contact and that was the revelation the entire government is corrupt and abusing human rights perhaps somebody like the iranians backing them up i think will invoke some restraint that is not to say that me and dont the he attack on the consulate it is hiding it for all but i would also say this is a whole lot during practice to get a rainbow was blessed with an attack on the American Embassy but early on in 97. 00 janata the hostages were held all maybe 2 years a year year and it so therefore i dont think this is an iraqi whole mark it seems to be that there is some outside interference and now we have reinforcement coming in from baghdad. To crush the demonstrators who always a lot always change. Ok lets bring in. Saudi into round youll no doubt want to response to respond to some of or you youve heard there especially whether this attack was orchestrated or whether it was a false flag attack but but 1st. Tell me does iran seek to control or influence those in political power in iraq is it no longer welcome that. You know i think you know one tries to have good relations with iraq we remember what happened when we had someone like Saddam Hussein in iraq that fast for 8 years and that was ended in having hundreds of thousands of people kids so having good relations with your neighbors is not something that the iranians want that is the norm in International Relations that you should have close economic links Culture Links political links with the neighboring countries especially when you live in the middle east where you have lots of wars and terrorism and other Security Problems having good relations that your neighbors become even more important so if. Iran is that iran wants to have close links with different iraqi parties or iran wants to make sure that another Saddam Hussein does not come to power in iraq then thats a face of accusations are going alright is interested in helping those are they sure but does iran accusing the seek a totally wrong seek control r. T. What happens in iraq to what extent is what happed whats happening in iraq today does does iran accept that it that its its false. And its just totally exaggerated if iran had that much power maybe they could have. Secured their own consulates in niger so exaggerating irans influence in iraq is of a of the losing parties in iraq elections to accuse the winners of elections of some foreign connection when you accuse the Iraqi Government youre basically insulting the iraqi people that voted for that government you know that iraq is one of the few arab countries that actually as Representative Government to be have monarchy is they have dictatorships we have a general thats come to power to work with its allies in the arab world and we have iraq that actually holds elections and they want to have leadership change and some some of these monarchies dont like to see democracy in iraq thats why the excuse that i see government of difference so how do you explain the anger in iraq at the moment particularly directed at iran. Yeah thats a very good question the basic question is that the people who act track. You down and installations in there are the consulate are they were presenting there are key people dance that is absolutely not i encourage you to take part in that a brain walk makes yes i dont know if you know this but there is this religious ceremony for the database in the for the it day that mom was sane and the sound was martyred at that religious seminary in. Just a ceremony in iraq and you have 20000000 iraqis are walking from now just to care about every year and about 5000000 iranians join this people and iraqi people feel that is that 1000000 iranians that it has that has nothing to do you know that has nothing to do that i think of going has actually been going on for centuries now no no thats not doing saddams time that 1st prohibited people were not allowed to take take that so if you want to live off the force and now yes and i was going to not know the people who attacked the one and consulate based on the local police and local authorities in they just came from outside niger they are not fun measure for us we have some a look a sound ok in iraq that there are i dont like you dance so what do you make a what you heard just there that its a total exaggeration that iran has that much power and that the protesters are insulting the iraqi electorate well let me correct a few things to start with no iraq you want to have another war with iran iraqis are keen to have good relations with the 2nd thing its an insult to the iraqi people if you tell them that the last elections well it through are genuine and it was not it was not false because 80 Percent People of the people did not participate in these elections and there was a lot of. Question marks about the result that even the government talked about these things 3rd thing is iraq was not the only responsible part about the iraq iran war the 2 countries were keen to have such what every country every leader ship thinking that it could defeat the other part strike a victory over it in within a month or 2 now if you come to your questions i think that the religious ceremonies that takes place in the jeff and ceremonies that take place in the jeff at karbala have nothing to do with the feeling of the iraqi people or the iranian polygamys are always welcome by the iraqis theyve never attacked them like that what the iranian does with some of the archipelagos when they went to iran to mush that now we with the iraqis are happy to have these people and mind you under Saddam Hussein there were hundreds of thousands of people from iran coming to the spelling of ems and the Saddam Hussein found that this was a very good way to improve this Economic Situation and that the sanctions the problem is that the uranian responsible erin in the visions speak clearly or spoke clearly about how they are controlling 5 arab capitals nowadays baghdad damascus road and and and and and santa and bahrain and how they ad out they are the ones the government and how they regard by that is the capital of their empire all these talks have insulted the iraqis have been injured theyre there theyre more out there their National Feelings and thats why they do not want to see. An inflow furcal influence they could they are ready to see good relations with the iranians but political influence and most of all supporting corrupt governments. I mean come any and there are i mean now trying people been over the lips of all the president and religious leaders so why do they dont not the police why do they prevent the Iraqi Government or the iraqi courts from trying of fishes already now under the name of iran sell a house for me. Twixt into iran and the u. S. Using iraq right now as a pawn in the in their regional strategies. Well unfortunately of course iraq the change open place you dont since the invasion of 2003 inches an insult to anyones intelligence to suggest the iranians or the iranian government what are you talking about the iranian people we all sympathies for all that reason against their government directly talking about the iranian government yet since the American Invasion it opened a huge gap in iraq it all takes since of course the dismounting or iraq infrastructure like the state including the long and the Security Forces that opened the door or uranium trained proxy used to enter the country and she used to do this a couple seen since then they have been building up to their credit quite successfully. And so they but its a call in to structure in order to control the country and to make cronies whole. Neighboring iran and they have in as i said successful now what has happened is that the americans also lost most control on the ground because the iranians have been preparing this for years and i will give you an example because what happened in the uprising against Saddam Hussein 99. 00 too long there are credible reports which suggest that there are iranian backed forces to cross the border to support the revolutionaries at the time but of course there are costs why the iraqi army was reasonably powerful during those bacteria now as i said you know americans have conceded but conceded power all the grounds to iranian influence because what has happened is that those critical of usefulness of all travel and also directed by the reigning government sees all of the open corruption in iraq and they have built. A mountain of wealth they just finished a school the creation ok nowadays. Armed militias who are backing them up and this is exactly the problem this is what the demonstrators are complaining about people are talking about this mysterious 3rd party i do not think that this 3rd party is no longer mysterious if there are they are on the militia mediations but. Who are supporting this corrupt because they share on interests this was a so the corruption of those arms on to them and their own pocket waiting. For an idiot in tehran Irans Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned the attack in jeff and demanded decisive effective and responsible action against what he called destructive agents and addresses this mysterious 3rd power. Who did he mean when he said that and can you answer me this question iranian Security Forces involved in any way there is advisors or directly on the ground in confronting demonstrators in iraq. I think hes talking about the u. S. Government the u. S. Embassy in baghdad that has about 5000 employees which is an amazing number Iranian Embassy in baghdad has about 50 employees so then when youre talking about foreign influence you need to talk about the number of people that the u. S. Government has in baghdad and the number of people that iran has in baghdad we have the u. S. Forces r. Q. Pieing Iraqi Military installations to be hard. U. S. Vicepresident pense visiting iraq and not visiting baghdad going to the kurdish region violating at our facility we have the saudis that have interfered in Iraqi Affairs for many years using petro dollars and paying anyone who is available to attack you that we had isis thats try to overtake baghdad and based on what we hear from our iraqi brothers if it was not for iranian help there are there would not be able to. Resist against isis in starts and they even try to take over the core of this huge and based on what the core dish leaders say that it was irans help that saved iraqi court