That ambassador saw and had raised before about investigating the bidens right or did and i want to ask you when you heard him say that was the 1st thought that went through your mind frankly i couldnt believe what i was hearing it was probably an element of shock. Joins us now from capitol hill in washington as it were the main points that emerged from these particular witnesses. Or not only did we hear from then then about his concern regarding the phone call but we also learned that he had attended a white house meeting in which aides to ukraines president were visiting the white house prior to this call and they were told explicitly by trumps own aides that there was a quid pro quo that in exchange for a meeting between saloons in trouble in person at the white house that ukraine would have to deliver the investigations into joe biden the other witness we saw on the stand this morning with Jennifer Williams she works with the Vice President s office and she had information on what happened after the call she said that she was with mike pence when he visited with zelinsky about a month after the call selenski was by then very concerned about why ukraine had not received the military aid that the u. S. Had promised ken said he didnt know what was what the what was behind the hold up however there was another member of the u. S. Delegation who did know that was Gordon Sunland the u. S. Ambassador to the ease you and he explicitly told when his alinsky say that there was yet another thing in exchange for the investigations into joe biden and that indeed was the security aide now this afternoon were expecting to hear something a bit different her volcker who is the former envoy to ukraine he is a bit of a wild card when he testified behind closed doors previously he said he didnt make the connection that that aid and the investigations were at all linked however he is the person who was tasked with bringing in the president s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani into the picture and it was also kurt volker himself who suggested the wording of the statement that trump wanted from ukraine. In which it was going to have it explained to the public that it was investigating joe biden and it was volcker who said that the statement had to include the name of the company on which joe bidens son was once a chairman so all wishes is to say that volcker could be a pivotal witness the republicans are hoping that he will continue to defend the president this afternoon however he has been incriminated further by witnesses weve seen in the past few weeks so its an open question exactly what volcker will divulge and remind us for people whove been watching this what the process is beyond these hearings how how does impeachment work beyond these particular hearings. Sure so after these public hearings wrap up then the house of representatives will vote on the articles of impeachment the charge sheet and the essence of say what political or crimes are misdemeanors treason as spelled out in the constitution or committed by trump then that charge sheet goes to the u. S. Senate to hold the trial of President Trump how that will unfold is completely theyre going to make it up as they go there is really nothing in the u. S. Constitution that dictates how the trial has to unfold but we can have a educated guess how it may end and that is because the senate is controlled by republicans members of trumps own party who up until this point have been very hesitant to criticize the president much less vote him out of office so some other bombshell something explosive likely still would have to develop before changing those republicans miles and heidi just to go back to todays events to give us an idea of whether americans are really watching all this or whether its political journalists and the people kind of in the media who are mostly focused on it. You know what struck me listening to these hearings is that its the same opening. Statement in this same closing statement weve heard over and over again from the democrats and from the republicans and you really wonder whether the the strategy here how it will play out will americans become in a sense numb to it all there doesnt seem to be people really riveted to their Television Screens in comparison to the patient of president clinton and all of this has been drawn out for so long and republicans are trying to use that as an argument in their favor saying that the impeachment inquiry which relates to ukraine they say that this is also part of the democrats efforts dating back to russia if you say russia to a member of the u. S. Public here likely youll get eyes rolling because for so long they had heard about the more reports the special counsel investigating whether trump had worked with russia to rig the elections in his favor all of that took up so much air from the conversation leading up to this point republicans are trying to play this impeachment inquiry is all part of the same and theyre accusing democrats of finding any way possible to try to damage their president what is your question thank you very much indeed. For jeffrey Cover Services director of critical studies at the new skin center he joins me live from washington d. C. Give us an idea of your impression of of how these hearings are going in terms of whos of coming out ahead democrats or republicans. Im afraid its a the worst kind of draw which is to say each side is taking from these hearings what it wants to hear the democrats have heard convincing evidence tying trump to this question of his interest in joe biden 100 bidens activities in ukraine and the republicans have heard what they want to hear which is that this is just a democratic attempt to undo the peoples will of 2016 election and try to plot to implicate trump in something that hes completely innocent of until when you know it had a kind of inman said that to the request to look into joe biden for ukraine to look into joe biden was improper does that is that something that people will take as a fact or do they will they see that as is his testimony being partisan in some way again the problem with the present moment is that the American People have become so tribal ised that the notion of objective truth is something that they see through partisan filters so in some sense to many republicans it doesnt matter what vin dimon said they are going to see him as an opponent of donald trump and therefore not credible i think the more interesting question is whether independents who may have supported trump in 2016 but without great enthusiasm will be turned off by the republican performance during these proceedings or whether theyll be convinced by the claim by republicans that this is all just a big witch hunt whats your impression of what well hear from this in the later in the next hearing as the afternoon ones what should we look out for in the next witnesses. Well peart volcker is a more significant player he was part of the socalled 3 amigos with gordon song linda and rick perry who were instrumental in affecting Trump Administration policy toward ukraine i think what im waiting to hear is whether republicans crossed the line into saying trump may have done these things that the democrats are accusing him of but thats not a problem that doesnt amount to Impeachable Offenses so far theyve really just tried to cast their aspersions on the proceedings themselves but that would be a different step and what about when people watch this if there are kind of people who are testifying who are awfully senior in the union in a train youve had a sort of a good career how do they feel when they see those people having this integrity question is that something that turns off people what you want to think and that again depends on what side they come from i think the conventional wisdom had been that it would be a bad move for the republicans to cast aspersions on a military veteran but then again donald trump during the 2016 elections insulted john mccain said he wasnt a hero. Again cast aspersions on the parents of a deceased military veteran and then going back a few elections there was the whole republican episode of swift boating john kerry the democratic president ial nominee and casting aspersions on his military service so i think again these matters have become so much filtered through partisan lenses that its very difficult to say how theyll be perceived. Weve heard from the u. S. Senate majority leader this afternoon that he said its inconceivable that the senate will have 67 votes to remove trump from office. Is that a Fair Assessment you think or do you think thats Wishful Thinking on his part. I think it would be very difficult to get 20 republican senators to vote to remove trump from office at this point there seems little likelihood of that based on what we have heard so far however these are republican members who tend to take a broader view of their responsibilities toward the public and who are less pressured by the base as compared to house members in their districts so at this point its unlikely that trump would be removed from office but its not impossible or inconceivable and in the past let me note it wouldnt useful for you to give us an end indication of how significant it is to reach this point of having an impeachment inquiry whether or not it goes through to the full the full impeachment whats the kind of historical kind of buildup to this well its a solemn moment to be sure there have only been 3 give me 2 u. S. President s who have been impeached in the past that would be entered johnson in the mid 1000. 00 century and bill clinton later on and this would be a significant step however theres also the danger that there have been impeached would increase launched on proposed by politicians against president s of the opposing party more and more frequently and therefore that impeachment might simply be one more instrument in the warfare that we see between the 2 parties what do you make of the point when the republicans were trying to draw out the witnesses on trying to get him to kind of perhaps give details that would perhaps identify the whistleblower it appeared that that was what they were trying to do is that was that your interpretation of it and how. Useful a tactic was that. Republicans know very well that the rules under which the Committee Investigation is operating would make it impossible order completely prohibited to identify the whistleblower however what devon nunez was trying to do by implying that the witness was trying to take the 5th is to harken back to trials or inquiries into mafia figures into figures with connections to organized crime because taking the 5th is what a kind of gangster would do would hold up in front of that kind of set of committee so again i think there is a desire to create the appearance of wrongdoing or a vision even when its not appropriate to the situation thank you very much indeed to Geoffrey Kemp a service and im sure well talk to you again as in hearings continue not sit about to hardys or castro for the moment tell us a little bit about whats happening now and the people paints a picture of whats happening on capitol hill not. Sure so right now were still waiting for the 2nd round of hearings to begin and meanwhile i think people are still digesting what we heard from this morning arguably the star witness of the 2 this morning was alexander then when he is the ukrainian expert on the National Security council and he had quite an interesting background to highlight he started his testimony this morning by telling that story he says that he was born in the former soviet union and that. Should the United States been 3 years with his father who was clean soviet persecution with this 3 sons in tow those 3 sons grew up all to serve in the u. S. Military Lieutenant Colonel then that was actually wounded while serving in iraq and then he eventually went into the Foreign Policy in his now a career Foreign Policy expert on ukraine he built up that credibility the credibility in him in saying that he was not partisan in any way and thats why when he took. To his reaction when he heard the phone call for its between President Trump and the president of ukraine he said thats why it was shocking to him that he thought he found it to be of concern and that it was inappropriate but into looking into that background republicans have really delved delved into that with the president accusing then min of being a quote unquote never trump or and also other republicans attacking him suggesting that he has dual loyalties because he was born in a foreign nation then was asked multiple times by republicans us morning whether he was a source of leaks of information about this call to the media he adamantly denied that saying he never did leak and he never would leak Sensitive Information to the media and then he was also asked about a meeting he had with ukrainian officials in which those officials jokingly were not approached him and asked if he would like to be the new defense minister of ukraine them and said that he didnt take that seriously it wasnt like they were they were trying to corner him and ask him of this privately he said there were other people present in the room he outright rejected of course and then when he came back to the u. S. He said he filed a report about it never thought about it again the now republicans have dug that episode back up asking him if it showed even a sense in impropriety they also tried to to theyve also try to accuse him of of dual loyalties and binman spoke quite movingly this morning about just the fact that his very presence on capitol hill speaking before lawmakers was proof that his father 40 years ago had made the right decision when deciding to move his himself and his boys to the United States and he ended his Opening Statement this morning by saying. To his father do not worry i will be fine for telling the truth and heidi when they have public hearings started last week chuck was at pains to say that he was far too busy to watch them now it seems he admits the following the move to close and weve had some reaction from him today took us through what hes been saying about it. Thats right today jury the the pool at the white house was invited into the cabinet room and trump said he did catch some of them mens testimony and he was asked her response to it he he he didnt take the bait though the president didnt outright attack than in the same way that he had last week when the former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine real vonnegut in a significant moment she was on the stand and the president we did about her saying that everywhere she went turned bad referring to her Previous Foreign Service posts that led to accusations of live witness intimidation unfolding before the very eyes of American Public who were tuned in to that hearing and move on of it she was asked on the stand how she felt about that in the moment she says she did feel intimidated so the republicans have been trying to very much narrow down their defense of the president saying that this entire proceeding against trump is biased and illegitimate the president though sometimes not making that in easy task to do by complicating the matters further even giving democrats possibly more evidence of witness intimidation which now is being discussed as a possible additional articles of impeachment but as you custer thank you very much indeed. Bring you some other news now while we wait for the impeachment inquiry to start again a Rights Group Amnesty International says it believes more than 100. 00 protesters have been killed across iran since the government ordered Security Forces to clamp down on protests Iranian State television has broadcast footage it says shows some of the 300 people reportedly arrested for rioting and threatening shopkeepers protests against the government increase in fuel prices began on friday with already say 6 protesters and 5 police have been killed in the unrest the u. N. Human Rights Office says its alarmed by reports that Security Forces are using live ammunition against protesters and of urged restraint also to barry has the latest from town. The number of deaths has gone up since the protestors began on friday according to official figures. 11 people have been killed 5 of those belong to the Security Forces 6 civilians that make up the arrests now these figures are coming to us from official state channels and officially weve heard the numbers to be much higher but we cannot verify that these demonstrations are being met with all the Security Forces inside the country since the Supreme Leader announced on sunday morning his views that he supported the governments decision to increase fuel prices the Intelligence Ministry the revolutionary guards have all issued statements saying that they will prevent any kind of gathering from taking place across the country and as a result of that over the past 24 hours there have been very few protests reported and weve seen a heavy security presence across the country now this is happening because president Hassan Rouhani said they have no choice but to increase the price of fuel to try and provide subsidies to nearly 60000000 iranians who are living close to the poverty line and thats because of economic sanctions that have been imposed on iran they are not able to sell their oil on the International Market since the United States withdrew from the nuclear deal last year this is something the iranian president said that they were not it was not an easy decision for them but it was necessary to try and help people deal with the economic crisis thats ongoing