Inhumane and dangerous our Rights Groups describe conditions in a positive migrant camp bosnia struggling to cope with the influx of thousands of people fleeing born policy taking the new balkan route to europe so who should be tackling this crisis and how this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program im Adrian Finnegan no Running Water or electricity portable toilets that are rotting flimsy leaking tents and rubbish everywhere built on an old landfill site next to a mine field migrants and refugees at the jack camp say that its a nightmare conditions are appalling and are about to get even worse with the onset of the balkan winter those living in the camps blame the bosnian government but local Authorities Say they simply cant handle numbers arriving in the country 50000 in 2 years many get stuck at the border with croatia and cant continue into mainland europe tough new measures are in place to restrict them movements on is a merged as a new transit point to europe off the northern balkan routes were shot following the 2015 refugee crisis Rights Groups are now warning of a new humanitarian crisis but migrants of the camps on the only ones fed up with the situation local authorities have demanded better support the e. U. Has given bosnia more than 40000000. 00 in aid but the local mayor says. That hasnt improved the situation of the camps or for those living around us. The situation is out of control and its collated the telling us that even greater numbers of migrants will be pouring in next year so we had to react we can see that the meditating of the crisis here is not successful on all levels of power including the International Organization for migration the European Union and the state and hundreds of people who live nearby have called for the closure of the overcrowded camps they say that they feel unsafe and trapped in their own homes. One can say everything about these migrants except that they are welcome here 80 percent of them a drug at alcoholics they break into houses and fight. All those criminal acts that the migrants commit are proven by Police Investigations everything has been seen we know how they behave we want this to stop we want them out of here and move them out of this camp needs to be closed those living in the camps want more help from International Organizations and say that those protesting against them lack empathy. They must have to think about the situation and 921992 there. Was war here. As well and other countries must have to think this is. They have to memorize that time when their people was if. The people need their help they have to you know think about the now situation here is not good not what theyll do much for drinking because its a vote 100 people attend the food banks are not the. 800 people. And. What theyre going inside the tent. But spring in august for todays discussion peter van der our out is the west balkans coordinator at International Organization for migration he joins us via skype from sarajevo from berlin jerald founding chairman at the European Stability Initiative think tank and we have. A save it shes a journalist and human rights activists she joins us via skype also from syria with thank you all of you for being with us peter lets start with you whats going on in post there why are there so many refugees why are they unable to move on from bosnia and why are they not being adequately cared for. Well i think 1st of all as your other point to tell to back out is that since january of last year weve had 52000 people registered there are who being here its you know one of those currently i would say theres about 7000 in country and it still remains population on the move so people are still managing to cross into the courageousness from italy and forwards and if you look at the numbers that means that since early last year 4344000 people managed to get to cross in to get to other parts of the year where they want to go so from the migrants perspective this is an open route which is why they continue to run the most or to vote and when it comes to the situation on the ground the challenge has been to get the political Decision Making to identify additional markers acquisitions spaces or the alternatives for existing spaces it will lessen the accountant going to their east the capacity for about 3200 bits in 4 difference in theirs but the problem is that there are 6000 people in the county which means that we have some people staying in was shaking generally very conditions of an acceptable we also have People Living in abandoned buildings abandoned factories near local neighborhoods creating a lot of problems also local to mention and the problem has been that theres been very veto if i can put it in those terms National Solidarity or by other towns or to state authorities would identify spaces in other counties where migrants would be accommodated so i understand the frustration of the multiple commission innocent accounts and that they feel a balance the reason why muggers are in some accountant is because its the closest place in busier suburbia to the 1st shingle to where people can go to which is slovenia and so im hopeful not a generation ago who has identified 2 new sites one sentence and everyone down to. Him still has not had access to those sites to get how many people could be accommodated there in. Well fast but it may be to start with a solution that would only one hand you trace improve the situation of migrants in the senate counting the ones that leaving outside giving wishing. It could also use official cans in the local population here to have migrants accommodated elsewhere not just innocent johnson which is particularly important with the upcoming winter where you see thats the movements its going to integration will slow down because people have to get through the hills which really comes know in people be stuck in mostly its going to flow into the. Paperweight we describe the conditions in the vote joke camp a state thats an unofficial camp the i. O. M. Runs 2 of them what are conditions like in the official camps in bosnia so. You notice on account of sources there are 2 centers that are mostly the largest ones focused on single males which remains the largest population in most years of over and into smaller family gams and eastender so run in accordance with international and european standards for disciples like incense or so people have access to free food the buildings are heated their jeans every day there is access to health so there are we are working there together with our partners like units you are unicef save the children rich girls who understood make sure that the full range of services is provided to the migrants that were there the centers are currently full capacity and people are constantly and this is one of the complaints that the neighbors all of them are discount where we have 1500 and both have is that their skills of the migrants are not worth trying to get in because there are no rails to go with the standards the centers that are dear there are also open to journalists he rights organizations to come and visit us and these are running according to International Standards. Gerald. Can a humanitarian catastrophe in bosnia be avoided what needs to happen or with the worst of of winter just weeks away now is it too late well its never too late to improve an unacceptable situation but it is very clear that this is a crisis on 2 very Different Levels i mean one level is they media that emergency that has just been described so there you need to get people out of harms way you know have some decent accommodation where people are not going to freeze to death in winter but the other level which is of course the more important one is how do you deal with the bigger crisis that we have not a balkan route but a Greece Germany route people arrive in greece and then make their way out of the European Union to get back into the European Union and the western balkans for them just a transit area and the idea of some of the European Union to try to trap people that leave greece and he needed them from reaching. Germany is bound to fail and its bound to fail with mess if humanitarian suffering associated the idea that bosnia which already today accommodates more migrants then e. U. Member states like hungary or bulgaria or croatia is going to be able to absorb a larger and larger number of people is a fantasy and so what we see now the search for accommodation the search for better better hosting of People Better provision of services its all necessary but it will fail to address the problem unless there is a strategy that reduces the number of people that arrive in greece or that leave from greece through the balkans to get to croatia. So jill to what extent is the e. U. Responsible for finding a solution to this crisis and he says that it can only help and not make decisions for the responsible authorities in bosnia itself where i think the e. U. Is very much responsible because what we are seeing at the creation border at the moment is actually a constant violation of International Law we are seeing creation of already is pushing people back even those that they are finding deep inside croatia and they say that they want to apply for asylum and theyre not doing it just on behalf of creation of very few people want to stay in creation or theyre doing it on behalf of the other members of the European Union and of course ask yourself the question how people get to bosnia in the 1st place they have to cross into the European Union already in greece so for the European Union which is given 2000000000 euros to greece to deal with migrants. To then say well were just hoping that the authorities in a bosnian canton or in a few bosnian cantons are going to be able to deal with a crisis that the e. U. Itself is currently unable to address or unwilling to address in a humanitarian way on the greek islands or in hungary or indeed on the question border for the e. U. To then lecture the bosnians is not going to be very effective what we need is not lectures what we need is a strategy and the only strategy that could work is one that reduces the number of people coming into bosnia by for example restarting relocation of people who need protection and to get protection from greece directly to even Member States as was done for one of the half years in 2017 and of course returning people who do not need protection in europe from greece to turkey so the solution to the crisis in bihar. Cannot really be found in bosnia that sort of what do you make of what youve heard so far why has bosnia been unable to come up with a unified efficient response to this crisis or is it not its responsibility to do so. Because the back nervous possibility too but there is one thing thats International Media and many others keep forgetting some national or a one story can or and that is the fact that boston is until today a semi protectorate where the International Community including the e. U. That has the biggest influence in this country do make many decisions and can impose decisions one of the stations that was imposed in bosnia is that the money that is coming from brussels to deal with the ongoing humanitarian crisis and i have to stress its not my goodness crisis its humanitarian crisis no migrants a refugee is guilty for whats happening here but all the money are distributing in bosnia through i. O. M. And the Profit Organization i also have to reflect to something mr peter said and thats about the center that we have here involved in its a good enough and that are run by the i. O. M. And financed by the e. U. These centers are far away from the places where human and seasons and dignified accommodation is provided for the people who are in bosnia these places are places where many people are saying that they suffer than not they do not feel safe they suffer due to lack of health care of many other things so if that is International Funded and eel sunday and where the water about the world we are living in and about the e. U. That all these people are dreaming about so much while theyre living in the dumpsters because not only will just dump them even the other centers that for me as a boston who survived the war look a lot like a concentration camp so all of that comes to the betty betty serious question and yes local governments do have or some stability but well has a much bigger responsibility in all that at the same time i have to add that most of the money that came to boston. Last year and a half or more are coming for the security of the nation. So at the same time when the police. Is violating the law and district in the phantom wealth will put people and taking them forcefully to what and the same time will with the help of io and their pocket fearing both is giving equipment to the same police for example they gave them last week 9 bents the event and use the fake people to work so is responsible also for what check and what is happening ok a come back in just a moment and miss out of it lets give peter an option as he attempt to comment on that the e. U. Peace has given bosnia what 40000000. 00 in the last year and a what what has happened to that money hows it been spent. About 75 percent of the funding that has been received by those there is nothing or that has been allocated to us or to go in or through partners like i. E. D. Unit sure it is Refugee Council has gone to what i would call a year he carries the seasons in the bronze saves meaning access to hell thats axis to shelter the acquisition centers everything into all the costs that go we need to grieve through degree of addition duty and heating including containers it we build the masons all these things are funded by the European Union so the vast losses on the part of the money has gone to to hear gerrys phones then the remaining 20 percent has gone to d. C. Jews to support the situations that are managing the migration situation most years ago via which includes the Border Police service for foreigners which is responsible for accommodation in the comanaged the sensors that are in most years you dont need to service for foreigners they are also responsible to its traditional markets for the sun and services for. The fates of municipalities and indeed also for some attendant. Elisas likely just one doesnt has been a broad range of support of the vast majority of the money has gone to provide. Unitary insists i do take issue but its not Going Forward i think that we have got me for about a description of the conditions in the centers or in units jar and others are not itchy and i think theres been sufficient International Media reports showing the situation inside the centers do indeed show that the reality is that they are in accordance reads International Centers and so he said i think the. Earlier guest also said the short term focus really needs to be we need to find solutions for no student 1002500 people that are into sharks and are on the streets or who wants an agenda because if we dont find solutions there there will be most of human lives larson explicitly if theres no question that peter. How many people are being housed on in camps on private land in boston is someone making money out of this at least and if so isnt that against the conditions that the e. U. Sets when it gives money to people like the i. O. M. To help cope with this problem. So last year we were in a similar situation as we are today meaning that we had lost my roots in the Senate Counsel that were living in deplorable you need tarion circumstances so we needed to find centers to house my kids before winter. We and i say collectively you know dorothys in a council loco we sabella to specifically we found ourselves in forcefully there was no public lands available at that time its not such a matter of the veil abilities more of a matter of the political Decision Making around these public lands that we had to resort to renting facilities from private owner so there are 3. Centers in both years appropriate are in private property days long since its former hotel and 2 former one former factory you know which is the larson there where the protests were born to go and then meet oh. Shit disinter b. S. Is a public building and. Inside iran is also public and the us it december to the Muslim Brotherhood that well we need more centers but the next door to new centers needs to be in public buildings so last year he had to resort to Broad Properties because simply because i did that or having my gun sleeping outside in the streets at the time people were also is leaving the view that if the letter shut so it was the only thing that was available Going Forward to newark ations should indeed be in poverty believes theres 2 reasons for that 1st public buildings can be a longer Term Solution that can be lower Term Solution for dresden like this but they can also subsequently be used for other purposes after they have been renovated and its a motor Term Investment in these private properties word basement is months short of dont ok its are as i saw you. Play when you were listening to pay the talking just that it to what you want to respond to what he was saying. I was coughing a little bit